Ace die? Unpossible! He is far too adorable for that:
The War With Whitebeard
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I think just the fact that Oda would have to completely disregard the WG as a viable enemy from this point on if Ace lives should be enough to think he should be killed off.
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Sammy is clearly Zephos…SON!
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I think just the fact that Oda would have to completely disregard the WG as a viable enemy from this point on if Ace lives should be enough to think he should be killed off.
How come? I mean it's a strong message if they manage to decimate the whole WB crew and kill ace. Will it be such a big shame for the WG to have decimated the worlds strongest pirate crew but fail to kill ace? They will still be powerful since they took down a yonkou.
I mean politically it will be a desaster for them i think… I still can see people buy the "WB caused so much chaos that ace managed to escape though we took the old mans head."The marines would still be a big threat for luffy and will begin to invade the new world. Aces death would be a big turn point for one piece.
No one of you who think he should die take into consideration that ace is slowly becoming more and more confident something which will be rendered useless by him loosing his head.
I'm just wondering why you root that much for this option.
@Ao:
Sammy is clearly Zephos…SON!
At least he managed to take you back from retirement :)
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Really the OP is so biased its makes taking any sense out of it difficult. If your going to bash a character at least pretend to look at a different angle …
Ace is luffys big brother who until recently had little to do with the plot. But right now he does , This whole battle is over him. Also if he dies we get a crewless emo for god knows how many chapters.
Ace could die , but he could also live. If ace dies many fan girls will cry, Many people in once piece will become bitter / relieved. If he lives though not much changes except we get Ace being depressive. Though his dream could shift to making luffy the pirate king ( most agree on WB dying right?). Personally i would like Ace to die saving luffy somehow or being left to a fate uncertain.
Also whom ever hates the key is acting stupid. Boa hancock gave luffy a key to A: create a false hope of luffy saving ace B: to make saving ace easier. Kubo has saved Ace twice , but that could also be him trying to lure us readers into a false sense of security. But some of the arguments here....get a grip there about hundred views on everything and until one becomes reality there all valid ( Sammy was just really arrogant every post which made any decent point he had kinda fail.)
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You can throw off all the cogent arguments you want. In the end, it's Oda's inner insanity of not killing because he's insane and thinks that a Shounen will set the values for a better education for kids that poses the problem.
You can say what you will, but it all boils down to Oda's inner debate of whether to make a good decision for his story or keep his delusions that have risked the integrity of this manga from the beginning.
No amount of logic can account for a problem that is based entirely on one man's delusion.
UsoppSpell!
On the eve of spoilerificaiton, you will wait until you remember it's break week.
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I think he's the most likely person to go, but the percentage of the chance of him dying is still microscopic.
Who's the one person who voted 'coma' -
No amount of logic can account for a problem that is based entirely on one man's delusion.
and yet despite this handicap you speak of, he still manages to garner praise from the majority of this forum just about every week with his chapters.
Man must be doing something right
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Usoppspell almost said it:
You can throw your wall of texts from the logic you seemed to have gathered from all the chapters so far but at the end it comes down to Oda. If he wants Ace to die he will do it with a don. If not oh well we know the answer! -
Oh I was just being an ass, I do understand what UsoppSpell was pointing out.
but darn we gotta be careful… we are literally on the precipice of a "death in one piece" debate and this forum doesn't need another under it's belt
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Crocodile species thing ate the other key in Alabasta.
The bananagators ate one key but Croc had the real one with him the whole time so, it's not really the same thing.
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I just find it funny how just now in this case, people are pulling the "World Government will no longer be a legitimate enemy" card. What about all those times Luffy screwed the Marines over? Enies Lobby, Saboady, Impel Down. Does he not count?
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I have to agree that Ace is going to die.
My theory:
Oda has used several historical persons in portraying One Piece characters (Bellamy, etc).
WB's archetypal character (or the original character) is a historical figure named Guan Yu who is still known as the God of War in China (he is still considered the strongest man during that period). Also, his physical characteristics such as unusual height and his weapon "Blue Dragon" (I would also add the unique beard) are just too similar to WB just to be ignored.
(things like Three Kingdoms, intense brotherhood that Guan Yu had, etc can also be mentioned but I'm lazy and this is just a quick post anyways)
My guess is that Oda portrayed WB based on Guan Yu. So, how did Guan Yu die? He was betrayed by his men because of his overwhelming cockiness, and the most interesting thing is that he died with his son.
So I think Ace is going to die.
However, you cannot assume that a popular character in One Piece has a potential of dying simply because another manga's popular character died. You mentioned Naruto's Deidara, but did you care to consider Dragon Balls' characters? Why are characters such as Yamucha and Piccolo have to be alive? (Keep in mind that even Goku was dead before some Kai gave up his life for him). Well, perhaps DB is not the perfect example but there are other mangas that do not kill popular characters also.
You also said Ace cannot 'grow-up' to be stronger, but as someone mentioned, Ace already had psychological development in this arc and if he survives, there are possibilities that he can be stronger like Smoker is/did (during the fight with Smoker in this arc, Luffy said Smoker got stronger).
Moreover, his role can also develop as the story progress so don't just shut the door.
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I really think Ace will live. I'm not sure if somebody already said this, but Ace realizes he wants to live ever since a few chapters ago. Besides, all Luffy has done and given up in the Impel Down and Marineford arcs would be really pointless.
But that's my opinion.
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No Ace realized that he will live and Oda wrote this shit just to let him die. Yeah awesome… But I'm amazed that this thread is still open
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Shouldn't it be merged with the get ready for waar thread? Oh i forgot about his influence headdesk
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I think he's the most likely person to go, but the percentage of the chance of him dying is still microscopic.
We haven't had a dramatic death yet, besides in a flashback, so it's not clear what that would look like. We've had people that wanted to die (Robin, Ace) or bravado of people saying they will go down fighting and die (Luffy, Jimbei,..) but not an actual leading up to death. However that seems to be what Whitebeard is being setup as, just read his dialogue, he seems to know it's coming:
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/569/10-11/And if Oda doesn't want people to die because he wants to hold a party afterwards, well the crew is split up anyway, Luffy is probably going to be out for a long time after this kicking his drug addiction, there's a possible timeskip coming.. this would be the opportune time to croak someone.
Also, what would the whole "new era" talk have been about. If WB saves Ace now and they all make it out unscathed, nothing changed..
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Also, what would the whole "new era" talk have been about. If WB saves Ace now and they all make it out unscathed, nothing changed..
A new era is coming… however not the era doflamingo talks about.
Shanks said he bet his arm on new era....Luffy's era is next.... If a new era starts without Luffy on the wave of it then he has lost the race to become the Pirate King.
Captain Karmine / Karmine the Mastermind
Bounty: 350.000.000
Crew : Karmine & A lot of barrels and boxes
Ship : Knarr/Ice Dragon
New bounty & Ship! Wandering around…
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A new era is coming… however not the era doflamingo talks about.
How did you figure that, we don't even know what he was talking about.
Shanks said he bet his arm on new era….
Luffy's era is next.... If a new era starts without Luffy on the wave of it then he has lost the race to become the Pirate King.
I doubt the new era will just be the fact that Luffy sails into the NW. Even if it's just the new generation overcoming the old, still implies a big change.
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and yet despite this handicap you speak of, he still manages to garner praise from the majority of this forum just about every week with his chapters.
Man must be doing something right
Oh the man is doing everything right. I fucking worship his manga. It's the shit.
That doesnt mean he aint a bit addled in the brain on that area. I would hate to see this aspect of his make him lose many fans down the line.
UsoppSpell!
On the eve of spoilerificaiton, you will wait until you remember it's break week.
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I really think Ace will live. I'm not sure if somebody already said this, but Ace realizes he wants to live ever since a few chapters ago. Besides, all Luffy has done and given up in the Impel Down and Marineford arcs would be really pointless.
But that's my opinion.
Perfect time for him to die, no? Such tragic story telling really pulls at the strings of the heart
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Luffy will give thePK title to Ace at then end of one piece. Ace dying? Impossible.
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First post here, mainly because I'm a lurker and people usually end up posting what my thoughts are, but it seems this point isn't emphasized enough:
Luffy tells Ivankov that if he fails to save ace, it would make him want to die.
http://www.mangastream.com/read/one_piece/568-13/12
http://www.mangastream.com/read/one_piece/568-13/13Meaning Ace's death would effect Luffy so much, it would mean Luffy's character will change. If he doesn't kill himself, he would most definitely lose the willpower to do anything after Ace's death. We'd see him go into a great depression and it goes against the happy merry silly formula that One Piece is about.
PS: I'm sure I seen the OP post before somewhere … ah Naruto Fan forums. I think this guy is attempting to turn this place into the bitch fest that those forums are. :P He's trolling.
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First post here, mainly because I'm a lurker and people usually end up posting what my thoughts are, but it seems this point isn't emphasized enough:
Luffy tells Ivankov that if he fails to save ace, it would make him want to die.
http://www.mangastream.com/read/one_piece/568-13/12
http://www.mangastream.com/read/one_piece/568-13/13Meaning Ace's death would effect Luffy so much, it would mean Luffy's character will change. If he doesn't kill himself, he would most definitely lose the willpower to do anything after Ace's death. We'd see him go into a great depression and it goes against the happy merry silly formula that One Piece is about.
PS: I'm sure I seen the OP post before somewhere … ah Naruto Fan forums. I think this guy is attempting to turn this place into the bitch fest that those forums are. :P He's trolling.
OR
Luffy could be hell bent on revenge
lulz
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That doesnt mean he aint a bit addled in the brain on that area. I would hate to see this aspect of his make him lose many fans down the line.
Agreed here, it takes a lot of the suspense away. For example Moria exclaims he killed Oars Jr, but you know he isn't really dead.
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The New Age is up for whoever shapes it. Someone like Doflamigo wants it to be one where Pirates don't chase their dreams, Sengoku wants it to be where the Marines almost wipe Pirates out, someone like Shanks thinks it will be an even greater time for Pirates then now, which is the more likely one with Luffy at the helm, and so on.
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How did you figure that, we don't even know what he was talking about.
I doubt the new era will just be the fact that Luffy sails into the NW. Even if it's just the new generation overcoming the old, still implies a big change.
I am not talking about next generation thingy… the Golden Pirate Age is ending... however Doflamingo new era is not about pirates dream... Blackbeard and Luffy do not fit his era idea well.
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My friend has a theory about Whitebeard's demise, one that I can conceive Oda implementing…
He believes Whitebeard's wounds will wind up ending his life, but before he passes on, he will acknowledge Luffy's strengths and encourage him to take on his dream of becoming king of the pirates...perhaps some of you have thought this might happen, i dont know if it will, but hey, its conceivable...
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WB surviving possibilities are 7%. The Ace survival poll was proven better after all.
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Look on the bright side, people!
If Whitebeard dies, Dr. Hogbak can give him Skanks' lost arm and he can beat the shachibooki!
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WB surviving possibilities are 7%. The Ace survival poll was proven better after all.
What about Crocodile, he can die, right?
Moria the Great…
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Vanessa's vote is worth 2147483646!! D=
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What about Crocodile, he can die, right?
I think moria… No that will give you a heart attack.
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What about Crocodile, he can die, right?
He was beaten to a pulp in some ancient ruins, he lost to the strongest man, he probably lost his arm in that fight, he was put in the depths of hell, his head was cut off…however he returned and he is alive..so its impossible to kill him..he is immotral
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Huh, so I guess ace is gonna die after all.
I wonder what other ways can death make our lives better?
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Ace should die but he wont. As for Whitebeard….He should die but I keep recalling multiple memories of Pell, Luffy and others escaping death throughout the series so far.
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you guys seriously think Ace will die???
then whats will all the hype oda gave ace??? roger's son, wb commander, his emo moments, the "i want to be saved" moment, and many more
i know oda is unpredictable… but this is a different situation.. whats unpredictable is the fate of whitebeard and how this war will end
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What makes any of you think this conflict will have a happy conclusion. Seriously.
I'm not sure that anyone (worth noting) thinks there will be a "happy conclusion", but that there will be some semblance of "victory" for the pseudo-protagonists of this arc. That being the successful rescue of Ace at the cost of losing Whitebeard and a good number of New World pirates and/or Whitebeard pirates. The Marines are on their home turf, and they really haven't lost anyone permanently, whereas any pirate that does not escape after the battle will be thrown in prison, unless the Marines are 100% annihilated. It's fairly obvious that the Marines have had the upper hand the whole time though, so the likelihood of them getting completely destroyed is slim to none.
Anyway, your "breakdowns" aren't perfect, and neither are the counterarguments anyone will make against them. We are all just arguing our perspective on the matter, so it is wrong to think your (or anyone's) opinion is more valid than the next guy's. In the end one of us will more than likely be right, but until Oda makes it happen, we won't know for sure who. I think Ace will live, you think he will die. Having said that, I think it would be best if everyone was a little bit more considerate of the other side's views. For example…
The WG needs to be strong for the eventual knock down during the revolutionary / Void century stuff.
What people don't seem to understand is the World Government is THE big bad.
The New World is where the Four Emperor's rule. Even Coby, a Marine, admits that it is where people who will start the next generation gather. As far as I know, it is certainly not a place where the Marines have power. At all. That said, the World Government isn't "THE big bad", they are just A big bad, else they wouldn't have so much trouble with not just one, but FOUR pirate crews ruling portions of the New World. Not to mention there is a portion of the New World that is, for the most part, "unexplored". As for their "appearance"…
I made the argument that Ace surviving makes the WG look rather impotent in carrying out its threats, and I don't think WB's death alleviates that enough, especially since what may have been the killing blow was struck by one of his friends through trickery.
There is no chance in hell these guys will come out the weaker in this conflict, especially when we consider the story threads of the Void Century, Rio Poneglyph and whatnot.
This is an easy area to disagree. On one hand, yeah, the Marines and the World Government have taken quite a few blows from our perspective, and are beginning to look less and less threatening as we enter the New World. On the other hand, like I mentioned above, we are about to enter the New World, where it is fairly certain the Marines and World Government have little influence to begin with. Would it really matter if they take another (small) hit to their pride? The argument can split here, ranging from their "real" goal for this war to their involvement in the rest of the story, but I will try to stick to one argument for now. I personally think Whitebeard is their main goal, with Ace being secondary (albeit an important secondary). I also think they will exist as an entity for a major portion of the story's remaining duration. I don't think Ace escaping would tarnish their reputation much so long as they destroy the Whitebeard pirates and kill Whitebeard himself.
The Marines were expecting to take on Whitebeard, were hoping to have all of their "Seven Royal Warlords of the Sea" on their side to battle Whitebeard, and expected Whitebeard to bring New World crews with him as support. Going into this war, we (and they) should have considered each other to be fairly equal fighting forces, else neither would have shown panic or nervousness during the whole thing, which both clearly showed. This is where I find it easy to disagree with your stance; the Marines were not expecting a powerful rookie, a huge group of Level 2-4 Impel Down prisoners, a few Level 5 big-bads, and two of their "ex-Warlord"s joining in against them in the already hard-to-battle fight with Whitebeard. On top of that all, one of those "ex-Warlord"s is one of the allies they had hoped would be on their side, and another of their Warlords isn't even there! While that should (or could) have majorly tipped the scales against them, they still managed to hold out and would eventually kill Whitebeard and destroy a large portion of his crew and allies. The unexpected intrusion (the Impel Down team) would be the primary reason behind Ace being rescued, and would be the only real tarnish on their reputation. So, yeah, they fail to execute Ace due to a fairly large and unforeseen interference, but in the end still kill and take out one of the world's greatest powers and the world's Strongest Man. As individuals*, they would all still be very dangerous, and as a whole, they should still hold strong influence with the world. *Referring to the Admirals, Vice-Admirals, etc. "Ace was saved because two Warlords and a group of high-class criminals interfered in the war…" should not overshadow "The Marines killed the Strongest Man in the World and took down his entire armada!"
Yes, I phrased that with a slight bias, but if the World Government controls the news like they should, then that slight bias is more than likely going to be a strong bias for the world to read.
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I think moria… No that will give you a heart attack.
What a mean thing to say.
You're mean.
Moria the Great…
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What a mean thing to say.
You're mean.
Well he does appear to have lived out his usefulness, why not?
(although appearances can be deceiving)
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I'm not sure that anyone (worth noting) thinks there will be a "happy conclusion", but that there will be some semblance of "victory" for the pseudo-protagonists of this arc. That being the successful rescue of Ace at the cost of losing Whitebeard and a good number of New World pirates and/or Whitebeard pirates. The Marines are on their home turf, and they really haven't lost anyone permanently, whereas any pirate that does not escape after the battle will be thrown in prison, unless the Marines are 100% annihilated. It's fairly obvious that the Marines have had the upper hand the whole time though, so the likelihood of them getting completely destroyed is slim to none.
Anyway, your "breakdowns" aren't perfect, and neither are the counterarguments anyone will make against them. We are all just arguing our perspective on the matter, so it is wrong to think your (or anyone's) opinion is more valid than the next guy's. In the end one of us will more than likely be right, but until Oda makes it happen, we won't know for sure who. I think Ace will live, you think he will die. Having said that, I think it would be best if everyone was a little bit more considerate of the other side's views. For example…
The New World is where the Four Emperor's rule. Even Coby, a Marine, admits that it is where people who will start the next generation gather. As far as I know, it is certainly not a place where the Marines have power. At all. That said, the World Government isn't "THE big bad", they are just A big bad, else they wouldn't have so much trouble with not just one, but FOUR pirate crews ruling portions of the New World. Not to mention there is a portion of the New World that is, for the most part, "unexplored". As for their "appearance"…
This is an easy area to disagree. On one hand, yeah, the Marines and the World Government have taken quite a few blows from our perspective, and are beginning to look less and less threatening as we enter the New World. On the other hand, like I mentioned above, we are about to enter the New World, where it is fairly certain the Marines and World Government have little influence to begin with. Would it really matter if they take another (small) hit to their pride? The argument can split here, ranging from their "real" goal for this war to their involvement in the rest of the story, but I will try to stick to one argument for now. I personally think Whitebeard is their main goal, with Ace being secondary (albeit an important secondary). I also think they will exist as an entity for a major portion of the story's remaining duration. I don't think Ace escaping would tarnish their reputation much so long as they destroy the Whitebeard pirates and kill Whitebeard himself.
The Marines were expecting to take on Whitebeard, were hoping to have all of their "Seven Royal Warlords of the Sea" on their side to battle Whitebeard, and expected Whitebeard to bring New World crews with him as support. Going into this war, we (and they) should have considered each other to be fairly equal fighting forces, else neither would have shown panic or nervousness during the whole thing, which both clearly showed. This is where I find it easy to disagree with your stance; the Marines were not expecting a powerful rookie, a huge group of Level 2-4 Impel Down prisoners, a few Level 5 big-bads, and two of their "ex-Warlord"s joining in against them in the already hard-to-battle fight with Whitebeard. On top of that all, one of those "ex-Warlord"s is one of the allies they had hoped would be on their side, and another of their Warlords isn't even there! While that should (or could) have majorly tipped the scales against them, they still managed to hold out and would eventually kill Whitebeard and destroy a large portion of his crew and allies. The unexpected intrusion (the Impel Down team) would be the primary reason behind Ace being rescued, and would be the only real tarnish on their reputation. So, yeah, they fail to execute Ace due to a fairly large and unforeseen interference, but in the end still kill and take out one of the world's greatest powers and the world's Strongest Man. As individuals*, they would all still be very dangerous, and as a whole, they should still hold strong influence with the world. *Referring to the Admirals, Vice-Admirals, etc. "Ace was saved because two Warlords and a group of high-class criminals interfered in the war…" should not overshadow "The Marines killed the Strongest Man in the World and took down his entire armada!"
Yes, I phrased that with a slight bias, but if the World Government controls the news like they should, then that slight bias is more than likely going to be a strong bias for the world to read.
I agree. I do not believe Ace will die.
I'd go as far as to say Oda is incapable of killing Ace at this point, both due to principle and fanbase, but just storyline wise, the fact that very few people really expect Ace to die enables him to pull off the Ace surviving storyline with comfort.
The only important player that absolutely must die is Whitebeard. Oda has set himself up for a year and if he backs out of this he will lose quite a few fans.
Furthermore, I daresay that most of the big name Pirates in this war will survive. Oda would not do such a thing as a mass annihilation of the WB crew. His version of annihilation is Kuma puni'ing a crew away, not permanent death.
My personal theory is that a big player will come in, most likely the revolutionaries, and flank the Marines giving the WB pirates a breather. Then as things start to look grim for the WG, BB comes in with team badass to tip the scales back, but then someone, probably Dragon or a lieutenant of his, uses his powers in some way to allow for the Pirates to escape.
UsoppSpell!
On the eve of spoilerificaiton, you will wait until you remember it's break week.
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He was beaten to a pulp in some ancient ruins, he lost to the strongest man, he probably lost his arm in that fight, he was put in the depths of hell, his head was cut off…however he returned and he is alive..so its impossible to kill him..he is immotral
There's a difference, you know.
Also, I hope Crocodile dies of lung cancer, nevermind Smoker.
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People are stilling going on about the Government/Marines credibility? Please, as long as they still have a few fighters that can kick the Strawhat's ass who cares?
On top of all that, everyone who keeps bringing this up doesn't seem to care about the Pirates credibility as well. A complete failure isn't needed, why do we need to go to such an extreme when a little less will work fine?
you guys seriously think Ace will die???
then whats will all the hype oda gave ace??? roger's son, wb commander, his emo moments, the "i want to be saved" moment, and many more
i know oda is unpredictable… but this is a different situation.. whats unpredictable is the fate of whitebeard and how this war will end
No one seriously thinks Ace will die. It's just that extremely jaded people on this board for the past…let's see...it feels like three years, like to joke about Ace dying because it's a hilarious way to pick on all of his fans here. I mean, those guys are everywhere.
To me, lately it seems kind of ass backwards. Whether or not the WG will be a threat in the future, protecting the admirals, and joking about dead Ace are not what this arc is about. We just don't share their sense of humor is all.
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http://www.nightviewproductions.com/images/products/N0527-Severed%20Arm_a.jpghttp://www.nightviewproductions.com/images/products/N0506-Severed%20Hand_pro.jpg
There's a difference, you know.
Also, I hope Crocodile dies of lung cancer, nevermind Smoker.
Maybe its an arm…how can you be sure ? :ninja:
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lol first of all crocodile is a woman thats his big secret like he new freking ivan lol and maybe after this arc Ace may join luffy
"A time skip will happen"!
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And you base this on what ?
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I have one question,
Why do you think that the marines have no(or little) influence in the new world? Im ean, in which place is that stated. Because in the page in which Garp explains the Yonkous he says that they are the 4 most powerful pirates that rule in that sea like emperors, as we saw with Withebeard and his allyed crews. But does that really mean the marines have no influence here? I dont think so personally. Just as the first part of the Gran Line isnt controled by the marines (Why do people think this? :blink:) the second one isnt controled totally by the pirates. The marines may have their MAIN base in the first half, but doesnt mean that they have no influence in the New World, I think HQ is there because it is a mid point from wich they can send units anywhere in the lesser possible time, being the place where the units are send in the fisrt half of GL or in the New World.
More ontoppic, i see the result of this war quit obvious: Ace will be saved somehow, but Withebeard will die.
