@Zik:
Ofcourse Luffy hasn't defeated anyone fair and square, he's a pirate.
If this was a samurai manga he would've committed harakiri in the first chap.
Luffy won every fight fair and square. Who makes the rules for what is a fair fight in a world of men made of fire and ice?
Luffy won every fight fair and square. Who makes the rules for what is fair fight in a world of men made of fire and ice?
Who makes the rules you say?
see what I'm talking about. I'm just stating the different between Luffy and his opponent.
Jokes, only funny if you realize that they're there (most of the time).
Just because Luffy is weaker than his opponents in no way means that he can't beat them. There are still people out of his league but as seen the one's he beat are within his range. If Luffy was equal or stronger than these opponents the fight wouldn't be as interesting to us. The chances of him getting his ass whooped must be greater than 50% otherwise its just not much of the kind of match we expect. Besides seeing as how he is the hero I really doubt he is gonna lose to someone who he has a 60% chance at beating.
See that makes sense. The problem is I've seen people say pretty much "Just because Luffy is weaker then his opponents doesn't mean he can't beat them," while referring to past opponents. Meaning that, Luffy is weaker then those guys…but he still beat them.
That seems like circular thinking to me, since when you beat a guy it normally means you're stronger. I'm hoping it's just people wording it poorly.
@Zik:
No he didn't and you know that. Stop lying to yourself.
Bringing up a person he lost to with the help of his own crew and someone else he never beat lol.
He was being figurative, not referring to his fights.
He meant that with all the batshit insane abilities in this series, what constitutes being fair in battle is subjective. Especially when in the pirate world, anything you can obtain is fair game, regardless of how you got it.
He was being figurative, not referring to his fights.
He meant that with all the batshit insane abilities in this series, what constitutes being fair in battle is subjective. Especially when in the pirate world, anything you can obtain is fair game, regardless of how you got it.
I know that dumbass. I clearly ignored that since my initial point is clear as day.
Maybe you guys missed the part of my post where I state that Luffy IS a pirate. So none of his fights are fair and square, seeing as I made a comparison to noble samurais.
You guys are dumb. Ofcourse what's fair is subjective.
Without Zoro's help Morgan chops Luffy's head in half.
Morgan > Luffy
Well with all the instances where Luffy would lose 1 on 1 like drowning against Krieg or the more common examples against Crocodile…
I think Oda prefers readers to normally think that the one who gives the first KO wins.
You can say Sanji helped him defeat Krieg or Usopp helped him defeat Lucci, but none of his nakama actually helped Luffy by attacking the other side. Comes down to really technical things I guess...
@Zik:
I know that dumbass. I clearly ignored that since my initial point is clear as day.
Maybe you guys missed the part of my post where I state that Luffy IS a pirate. So none of his fights are fair and square, seeing as I made a comparison to noble samurais.
You guys are dumb. Ofcourse what's fair is subjective.
So you mocked him by making a post that looks just like every other dumb post trying to me that point.
Huh I guess that's clever.
Shallow puddle > Anyone with a DF
So you mocked him by making a post that looks just like every other dumb post trying to me that point.
Huh I guess that's clever.
I don't follow. The word "make" possibly?
But anyway think what you want. Assume you have to clarify or point out posts for me and I'll respond accordingly.
Shallow puddle > Anyone with a DF
It's been said that the water has to cover more than half of someone before it begins to affect them.
Jadosra must you revive these same Croc>Luffy arguments? They always end up with 90% of people with common sense telling you that Croc lost and to face it anyway.
No, they always end with me giving arguments that Croc > Luffy and everyone with "common sense" "ignores me" because "I can't argue" or because "I'm a lost cause" even though I curiously was negating every argument they did.
So those "90%" with "common sense" stop discussing it and leading my last post lost in the shadows as if nothing was discussed, until its brought again sooner or later.
Also, specially lol'd at common sense as soon as you implied as you were part of the common sense group.
Yeah, a Mihawk fanboy has definitely ground to stand.
And you're nuts if you think Luffy is even slightly weaker than Croc after beating him so long ago, after Zoro said all the SH have been getting stronger during their travels, and considering that it's very unlikely that Croc has gotten any stronger after being locked up since that gomu gomu no storm curbstomping. Luffy wasn't even capable of doing gear 2nd back then, hell not even gomu gomu no rifle.
And you're nuts if you think Crocodile is even slightly weaker than Luffy after being known as a Shichibukai, after knowing Crocodile defeated Luffy 2 times before facing him again and losing, and considering that its very unlikely that he suddenly lost his powers because of being underground since he used them before and owned Luffy with them. Crocodile wasn't even using his powers at the end, hell, just melee attacks until he finally understood Luffy is not that weak.
No he didn't. He only threw Luffy into the ocean in a last ditch effort to win the fight (which worked). Luffy needed to be saved by Sanji in order to survive and was unconscious by the time he was out of the water and Krieg got up and was screaming on the deck. Krieg won the fight.
Krieg > Luffy
I do agree that Don Krieg did a pretty cool strategy and almost owned Luffy, and in the end, Luffy would have died if it wasn't for help.
But the fact is that Don Krieg didn't defeat him two times earlier.
Yes! Captain Kuro, Foxy, Blueno, Motobaro, and Charlos. Luffy is clearly weaker than everyone else that he's gone against.
I like how you keep listing that instead of seeing the simple facts that are ahead of your nose:
1 - Crocodile is a Shichibukai, the rest of the opponents are not (This should be enough, but I'l continue in case you guys think the Shichibukais are a bunch of pansies)
2 - Crocodile defeated Luffy 2 times fair and square, the others did not (This would be enough to shut up the argument, but its obvious that it won't, so I'l try to throw another thing away)
3 - Crocodile didn't use his powers to the full extent on the last battle, the others did.
Keep on the listing, though. Someone may not notice this post.
Lulz at you calling anyone a fanboy when all you do is ride Croc and Moria's nuts, I'd read your post but I'm sure it's the same "If Crocodile was serious…" and "If Moria made some shadow knife instead of stomping Luffy..." blah, blah, page down. Heh you should be the biggest Mihawk fanboy since you'll even jock the weaker Shichibukai. And you're hysterical (and delusional) if you think Croc could beat Luffy now after a whole deal was made about Luffy surpassing Croc way back in Alabasta.
@Kairouseki:
It's been said that the water has to cover more than half of someone before it begins to affect them.
It was mostly a joke. But yea, a puddle with own Whitebeard.
I do agree that Don Krieg did a pretty cool strategy and almost owned Luffy, and in the end, Luffy would have died if it wasn't for help.
But the fact is that Don Krieg didn't defeat him two times earlier.
Does that matter? Krieg won the only fight therefore he is stronger.
Krieg > Crocodile
He has a 1-0 record against Luffy compared to Croc's 2-1. That's a 100% winning percentage.
It occurs to me. Didn't Gin kind of save Don Krieg after Luffy knocked him out?
I mean, he was stuck on the Baratie with just his practically defeated crew and the chefs, Sanji, and Zeff. They probably would have killed him if Gin didn't interfere.
You know, it's been a long time since I've tried to argue with you. I'm going to give you some test arguments and see if you've learned to bend at all.
1 - Crocodile is a Shichibukai, the rest of the opponents are not (This should be enough, but I'l continue in case you guys think the Shichibukais are a bunch of pansies)
Because a title means everything. I sure hope Buggy can Mr Satan his way into becoming a Yonkou. He'll instantly become stronger than Luffy and any of the Shichibukai individually thanks to that magical title.
2 - Crocodile defeated Luffy 2 times fair and square, the others did not (This would be enough to shut up the argument, but its obvious that it won't, so I'l try to throw another thing away)
Luffy was weaker than Crocodile back then. An interesting trait of Shonen manga is that the main characters are constantly getting stronger. Thus the title of chapter 209 "Surpass You". Oda illustrates the point further by having Luffy defeat Crocodile. Oda's words > your words.
3 - Crocodile didn't use his powers to the full extent on the last battle, the others did.
Then he's emotionally fragile and let the situation influence his ability to think clearly, which is as much a part of a fight as anything else. Unless, of course, you're suggesting that he didn't care if he lost.
Lulz at you calling anyone a fanboy when all you do is ride Croc and Moria's nuts, I'd read your post but I'm sure it's the same "If Crocodile was serious…" and "If Moria made some shadow knife instead of stomping Luffy..." blah, blah, page down. Heh you should be the biggest Mihawk fanboy since you'll even jock the weaker Shichibukai. And you're hysterical (and delusional) if you think Croc could beat Luffy now after a whole deal was made about Luffy surpassing Croc way back in Alabasta.
Lulz at you calling anyone a fanboy when all you do is ride Mihawk's nuts, I'd read your post but I'm sure its the same "I have no counter arguments against you, so I'l just say you are saying the same thing as you did before, even though I didn't answer before nor will I answer now, because you're right", blah blah blah, page down. Heh you should be the biggest Crocodile fanboy, since you like Mihawk, a shichibukai. And you're hysterical (and delusional) if you think Crocodile is weaker than Luffy.
Also, you're an idiot if you can't even counter argue with me yet keep repeating that Crocodile argument I already dissed.
Krieg > Crocodile > Luffy > Mohmoo
THIS IS THE ORDER OF THE WORLD!!!
You know, it's been a long time since I've tried to argue with you. I'm going to give you some test arguments and see if you've learned to bend at all.
I seriously hope this sentence is not an excuse to end the argument midway for whatever reason you may have.
Because a title means everything. I sure hope Buggy can Mr Satan his way into becoming a Yonkou. He'll instantly become stronger than Luffy and any of the Shichibukai individually thanks to that magical title.
Younkou = One of the fourth closest man to One Piece
Shichibukais - The strongest warriors that accept the World Government (Well, not even that, its most like the strongest warriors that don't mind being connected with the World Government purely by name)
Crocodile had the strenght to be invited by the World Government, thus meaning he's one of the strongest pirates around the Grand Line.
Simple.
Luffy was weaker than Crocodile back then. An interesting trait of Shonen manga is that the main characters are constantly getting stronger. Thus the title of chapter 209 "Surpass You". Oda illustrates the point further by having Luffy defeat Crocodile. Oda's words > your words.
Surpass you /=/ Being stronger than.
Surpassing was in the context of Luffy defeating Crocodile, Luffy was basically saying "I WILL DEFEAT A GUY ABOVE ME".
Luffy did in fact defeat the guy, but he's still weaker than him.
Then he's emotionally fragile and let the situation influence his ability to think clearly, which is as much a part of a fight as anything else. Unless, of course, you're suggesting that he didn't care if he lost.
I agree.
Crocodile was indeed emotionally fragile and let the situation influence his ability to think clearly.
Now let me ask you a question:
-If Crocodile didn't have that emotion problem and Luffy didn't have help from someone, do you seriously believe Luffy would win?
When I say Crocodile is stronger than Luffy, I say it in fighting, not in:
-Mentality (Let's face it, Crocodile lost his will, he's pretty much a zombie noww)
and:
-Friends/"Nakama" (Crocodile had a bunch of guys who didn't know his identity and the only one who knew from the beginning was quick to betray him)
I only mean it in strenght.
With that said, do you seriously believe that if the whole Friends thing and Mentality thing was out of the board, Crocodile would lose 1 on 1, Mano a Mano with Luffy?
That's all I need to know
1 - Crocodile is a Shichibukai, the rest of the opponents are not (This should be enough, but I'l continue in case you guys think the Shichibukais are a bunch of pansies)
You mean WAS? Luffy took that away after revealing what an asshole Croc IS.
2 - Crocodile defeated Luffy 2 times fair and square, the others did not (This would be enough to shut up the argument, but its obvious that it won't, so I'l try to throw another thing away)
Croc DID put Luffy in near-death states both times, if that what you mean by defeated. Although Luffy could have very well died after those 2 fights, he didnt. Robin saved him and the missed water blasts saved him. Croc was a moron for not finishing the job which affects how "strong" he is overall.
Strength isn't only determined by brute force. It is also determined by strategy, tactics, intelligence,….the ability to see things through.... and other things that people seem to ignore these days.
On another note, Luffy went into battle with Croc not fully knowing/understanding Crocs power which is the obvious reason why he lost the first time. The 2nd time, Luffy was smart enough to devise a plan to get Croc wet but failed due to lack of skill but lived due to his Will (others call this Luck or coincidence but people need to realize that this is the extent of Luffy's WILL TO LIVE AND FULFILL HIS DREAM which is why he will become Pirate King)
3 - Crocodile didn't use his powers to the full extent on the last battle, the others did.
This, IMO shouldn't even be a point. Whose fault is it that Croc was so stupid/haughty/ignorant/[insert excuse here] to not go "Full Blast" on Luffy in the end? Maybe he underestimated Luffy…who knows. But what we do know is that Luffy's Storm broke through his Sables like cheesecake....and we do know that Luffy was "smart/clever" enough to use his blood as the medium to utterly embarassing Croc.
Croc lost his Shichi status. Even if he officially didn't lose the status...he did in my eyes for getting owned so hard by someone he "supposedly" defeated twice. Plus Luffy gets a A+ for all the beautifully displayed face bashes he managed to embarass Croc with.
I seriously hope this sentence is not an excuse to end the argument midway for whatever reason you may have.
It's an excuse for me to bow out if I realize that you're still as stubborn as ever. It seems that you are so I'm done. I'll be curteous to you and answer your questions before I leave, though.
-If Crocodile didn't have that emotion problem and Luffy didn't have help from someone, do you seriously believe Luffy would win?
It's hard to say honestly. Luffy was to a point where he wasn't going to stop until he finished things, which is kind of his theme. Having said that, if's are worthless. How about if Luffy had gear second? If's are stupid.
With that said, do you seriously believe that if the whole Friends thing and Mentality thing was out of the board, Crocodile would lose 1 on 1, Mano a Mano with Luffy?
You can't just toss mentality out. That's a huge part of a fight, and like one of the primary reasons that people think Luffy can be Pirate King (Zeff). That's like saying "oh, well let's say that Croc wasn't made of sand". I'm pretty sure I saw you admit for yourself that haki and mentality could be tied together.
But to answer your silly question: Yes, in you're extremely deluded world Luffy would probably lose back then. Luffy probably wouldn't lose even in those stupid conditions at this point of the story, though, now that he has gear second. Croc would have no chance of keeping up.
Lulz at you calling anyone a fanboy when all you do is ride Mihawk's nuts, I'd read your post but I'm sure its the same "I have no counter arguments against you, so I'l just say you are saying the same thing as you did before, even though I didn't answer before nor will I answer now, because you're right", blah blah blah, page down. Heh you should be the biggest Crocodile fanboy, since you like Mihawk, a shichibukai. And you're hysterical (and delusional) if you think Crocodile is weaker than Luffy.
Also, you're an idiot if you can't even counter argue with me yet keep repeating that Crocodile argument I already dissed.
Oh you're clever, you say you won't read my post yet parrot it back with minor changes so obviously you read it, and like I said I'm not gonna argue you with you because you repeat the same crap after it's been pretty well refuted because you're ridiculously stubborn and I don't feel like sifting through your tl;dr posts. Finally you and this fanboy crap, here Mihawk is gay and will lose to Zoro… Voilá. You on the other hand would give yourself an aneurism if you tried to speak bad of Croc and Moria.
Younkou = One of the fourth closest man to One Piece
No. They are not. The person closest to One Piece is probably some guy on the front of a boat that is physically the closest to Raftel.
Shichibukais - The strongest warriors that accept the World Government (Well, not even that, its most like the strongest warriors that don't mind being connected with the World Government purely by name)
Not nessacarily. You don't know if they are the strongest, just that they are very strong. Their could easily be another "Blackbeard" out there that they never heard of that is stronger.
Crocodile had the strenght to be invited by the World Government, thus meaning he's one of the strongest pirates around the Grand Line.
Simple.
You don't know how many turned down the offer to be a Shichibukai. He only had a 81 million bounty before he became one. 11 rookies got higher ones in a couple monthes (Though it can't be said that bounty = strength).
Surpass you /=/ Being stronger than.
Surpassing was in the context of Luffy defeating Crocodile, Luffy was basically saying "I WILL DEFEAT A GUY ABOVE ME".
Luffy did in fact defeat the guy, but he's still weaker than him.
"I WILL SURPASS YOU" = "I WILL BECOME STRONGER THAN YOU" in a nutshell.
If he surpassed the guy above him than he is stronger than him.
I agree.
Crocodile was indeed emotionally fragile and let the situation influence his ability to think clearly.
Great.
Now let me ask you a question:
ugh…
-If Crocodile didn't have that emotion problem and Luffy didn't have help from someone, do you seriously believe Luffy would win?
That is completely hypothetical so it means nothing.
When I say Crocodile is stronger than Luffy, I say it in fighting, not in:
-Mentality (Let's face it, Crocodile lost his will, he's pretty much a zombie noww)
and:
-Friends/"Nakama" (Crocodile had a bunch of guys who didn't know his identity and the only one who knew from the beginning was quick to betray him)I only mean it in strenght.
Yahhhhhh he can fight better. That means he is stronger…. no.
With that said, do you seriously believe that if the whole Friends thing and Mentality thing was out of the board, Crocodile would lose 1 on 1, Mano a Mano with Luffy?
That's all I need to know
So if Croc was a different person mentally he would win? Ok, I agree. But he isn't.
True get out while you still can or you'll have to read through a bunch of long, repetitive tl;dr posts based on what ifs, just to explain to him the basics of how battles between shonen heroes and villains work.
Truth get out while you still can or you'll have to read through a bunch of long, repetitive tl;dr posts based on what ifs, just to explain to him the basics of how battles between shonen heroes and villains work.
What has that idiot Truth done now? Always doing stupid things.
What has that idiot Truth done now? Always doing stupid things.
Lol my bad I naturally made it grammatically correct in my head without thinking of username.
Why are you guy arguing over pointless thing…. it all come down to the ultimate victory at the end!!! Do you seriously think that Oda would make it so Luffy would lose to someone he already beat!!! then what kinda worthless crap would that be. If that were to happen I think a lot of people would fucking loss interest in One Piece. Don't said that I'm bullshitting you because you like a side character better than Luffy, you don't speak for the majority of the fan!!! just look at the poll if you don't believe me. Luffy have been #1 since forever. It alway come down to the main character, if it not all the time then most of it.
Why are you guy arguing over pointless thing…. it all come down to the ultimate victory at the end!!! Do you seriously think that Oda would make it so Luffy would lose to someone he already beat!!! then what kinda worthless crap would that be. If that were to happen I think a lot of people would fucking loss interest in One Piece. Don't said that I'm bullshitting you because you like a side character better than Luffy, you don't speak for the majority of the fan!!! just look at the poll if you don't believe me. Luffy have been #1 since forever. It alway come down to the main character, if it not all the time than most of it.
Krieg > Silly character poll
Not nessacarily. You don't know if they are the strongest, just that they are very strong. Their could easily be another "Blackbeard" out there that they never heard of that is stronger.
You don't know how many turned down the offer to be a Shichibukai. He only had a 81 million bounty before he became one. 11 rookies got higher ones in a couple monthes (Though it can't be said that bounty = strength).
As said by Moria, there's a lot of people qualified to be a Shichibukai, is not like only the ones behind the Yonkou in power can have that title…
let see….. oh yeah!!! he show up, kick Luffy ass, the end.
That's much better. Now you smart sound.
I'm so sorry man… I didn't know I was talking to a "special" person!!! please get some help whenever it is convenience for you. From now on I'll pray for you so you'll make a safe trip back to reality.
Until now, every opponent we've seen has found his counterpart. Every power has been nullified (not in BB way). I wonder what will happend with the schichibukais: is there anyone in WB crew who can counter Kuma's power ? Is there anyone who can counter Hancock Mero Mero Mellow ? Is there someone who wan counter… Dofla's DF ? Etc.
I'm so sorry man… I didn't know I was talking to a "special" person!!! please get some help whenever it is convenience for you. From now on I'll pray for you so you'll make a safe trip back to reality.
If only you knew how stupid you sound. I'll explain this slowly.
Krieg fought Luffy. Krieg beat Luffy. There you have it.
If you still don't believe me you should try to read the manga.
Until now, every opponent we've seen has found his counterpart. Every power has been nullified (not in BB way). I wonder what will happend with the schichibukais: is there anyone in WB crew who can counter Kuma's power ? Is there anyone who can counter Hancock Mero Mero Mellow ? Is there someone who wan counter… Dofla's DF ? Etc.
That ursa shock is a real problem, the beam will have no effect on Marco and I'm guessing that Jozu is stronger than Kuma or atleast won't lose to him in strength. Base on the scene where the Vice-Admiral stab his own had, we can guess that you just have to think about something else beside dirty though, Luffy is just stupid so he immune.
I think that when Luffy and Croc fought, that it had to be close, that it had to be a battle in which Luffy would struggle. This is so that the climax of the Arabasta arc would be compelling. So it would be natural to think that Crocodile is stronger than him, in order for Luffy’s fight to be as persuasive as it was. And now that the battle is finished, I think that Oda revisiting it wouldn’t have the same emotional leverage, and thus we probably won’t see it.
Now, on which one is stronger, honestly I’d have to side with Mihawk and everyone, and say that Luffy is. That’s because the plot has progressed so much and Luffy has dare I say, “powered up”. But I think this analyzation has problems as Jadosra has shown, in the nature of Luffy’s fights between Enel for example in which the plot was constructed to give Luffy an extraordinary advantage, but I think we can honestly say Luffy has gotten much stronger, physically, since he last fought Croc because of the feats shown in Water 7.
All in all it’s hard to say, because I don’t think it’s as linear as that. There were certain conditions that allowed Luffy to win against Croc, but that was when Luffy was weaker than he was now. I think though that it may be a pointless question to ask if they never fight again. On that note, I think that Croc being busted out of Impel Down must have some consequences down the road, and there is a good chance we could see him really get going down the road.
If only you knew how stupid you sound. I'll explain this slowly.
Krieg fought Luffy. Krieg beat Luffy. There you have it.
If you still don't believe me you should try to read the manga.
I'm guessing that never happen to you.
http://www.picamatic.com/show/2009/08/23/12/38/4825933_460x739.jpg
I'm guessing that never happen to you.
So close…
If you only read one more page you would have seen it.
1 - Crocodile is a Shichibukai, the rest of the opponents are not (This should be enough, but I'l continue in case you guys think the Shichibukais are a bunch of pansies)
2 - Crocodile defeated Luffy 2 times fair and square, the others did not (This would be enough to shut up the argument, but its obvious that it won't, so I'l try to throw another thing away)
3 - Crocodile didn't use his powers to the full extent on the last battle, the others did.Keep on the listing, though. Someone may not notice this post.
Okay U R right. Crocodile is better than Luffy and is considered by the world gov't as a much more powerful, talented and skilled criminal. With that being said Luffy still beat Croc, Croc lost man, U gotta get past that.
1 - So what??? Yes Crocodile is considered a better criminal by the WG. And according 2the WG Luffy isn't on Croc's lvl yet. Oda helps enforce this idea by showing us how Luffy would only B a lvl 5 prisoner and how a shichibukai would B a lvl 6 prisoner in Impel Down. However this system itself is flawed due 2how the WG constantly covers up Luffy's achievements.
2 - And Luffy defeated Croc once, in a world of pirates where all is fair and square. And I think that going by Oda the last win is the only one that really matters.
3 - Of course he didn't. Crocodile while his mentality may not B functioning at its upper limit Crocodile is very smart. Smart enough 2betray the WG and keep the WG in the dark about his actions while starting a war and leading his own lil' mafia. His loss 2Luffy was purely logical.
I.E. If someone comes 2fight U with his bare hands and U shoot him multiple times with a pistol, then he returns later and U shoot him multiple times with a shotgun, when he returns again Ur gonna realize that apparently bullets aren't gonna work on this guy and U'll either fight him with Ur own bare hands (or Ur gonna run away).
If Luffy and Crocodile fight had gone differently back then Croc would've probably won. And if they were 2fight now it is unknown who would win. After all Croc could basically teleport while in the desert and he seemed nearly unstoppable, but who's 2say that he'll B faster than Luffy's gear 2nd. Or if they will even fight in the desert. No one knows what mysteries the future holds. We only know the past and present and presently Luffy has had the last laugh against Croc so 2speak.
=D
What are you on man!!! Krieg fainted before Luffy fall into the sea!!! he still unconscious when he yell because apparently whining mode is activating.
What are you on man!!! Krieg fainted before Luffy fall into the sea!!! he still unconscious when he yell because apparently whining mode is activating.
So Krieg is standing and alive on his own while Luffy would be dead but instead he is saved by Sanji and is now just unconscious, laying on the deck.
Krieg won the fight.
So Krieg is standing and alive on his own while Luffy would be dead but instead he is saved by Sanji and is now just unconscious, laying on the deck.
Krieg won the fight.
I seriously don't see what you are seeing right now. It look to me like an unconscious raving of a man who denying the fact that he just got his ass kick.
http://www.picamatic.com/show/2009/08/23/12/58/4826067_460x763.jpg
I seriously don't see what you are seeing right now. It look to me like an unconscious raving of a man who denying the fact that he just got his ass kick.
You are only seeing what the words are telling you. All the chefs are screaming "YAHHHH YOU BEAT HIM." Krieg's crew is all upset. However, look at what you have.
Krieg launched Luffy into the ocean right. While Krieg is left a bloody mess (but alive), Luffy would have died because he can't swim. Krieg has just won the fight between them. Even when Sanji saves him it doesn't matter. Luffy is unconscious and look, Krieg is standing up on the deck (whether or not he is just doing it on instict, he is up and still wants to fight). Yes, Luffy "comes out ok" because Gin steps in but Krieg won that fight the second Luffy went into the water.
Is Luffy the "winner"? Yes.
But he lost the fight. Krieg > Luffy
You are only seeing what the words are telling you. All the chefs are screaming "YAHHHH YOU BEAT HIM." Krieg's crew is all upset. However, look at what you have.
Krieg launched Luffy into the ocean right. While Krieg is left a bloody mess (but alive), Luffy would have died because he can't swim. Krieg has just won the fight between them. Even when Sanji saves him it doesn't matter. Luffy is unconscious and look, Krieg is standing up on the deck (whether or not he is just doing it on instict, he is up and still wants to fight). Yes, Luffy "comes out ok" because Gin steps in but Krieg won that fight the second Luffy went into the water.
Is Luffy the "winner"? Yes.
But he lost the fight. Krieg > Luffy
There no indication that he want to continue to fight, you can practically see the white in his eye. If Gin didn't step in Krieg would have over exhausted himself and die. from the picture, you can actually see more blood is coming out of his mouth and eye.
Krieg's goal was to take over the Baratie ship and restart his conquest of the Grand Line. Luffy's goal was just to not let him and to kick his ass. Luffy won.
There no indication that he want to continue to fight, you can practically see the white in his eye. If Gin didn't step in Krieg would have over exhausted himself and die. from the picture, you can actually see more blood is coming out of his mouth and eye.
You are dodging the point that Krieg won when he threw Luffy into the water.
Plus, how exhausted could he possibly get trying to kill an unconscious man. Let me run down that scenario. Krieg grabs sword from random crewmate and stabs Luffy. Now Luffy's dead. You see what you did.
=D
