Simple poll, let's discuss this in a civilized manner, bros
How should Fansubs be made?
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With slugs and snails and puppy dog tails.
lots of puppy dog tails.
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Poll added, keep on voting, bros
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I like it to be FLASHY :D
for me no translating of words like Nakama, Ossan, Shichibukai and flashy attackname animations
I believe translated attacknames are really lame mostly
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flandrian, but aren't they lame in the Japanese language?
I've heard that "Gomu Gomu" sounds as ridiculous as "Rubber Rubber" here -
What about animations in black&white
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They should be made however the subbers want to make them, really. If you don't like a fansub don't watch it. At this point, fansubs have come so far that (for the most part) complaining about them at all just makes you look like a petulant baby.
In my opinion it's a bit silly to not translate everyday words like "old man" and "friend", but whatever, we all know what it means. The attack names should be translated because many of them are obscure and/or ridiculous–I don't see this as a problem because they are usually subbed in english and japanese. Flashy animations...I don't give a damn as long as they are still readable.
I believe translated attacknames are really lame mostly
This is typical "japanese is better" mindset with no reasoning behind it. English words are only cool if actually used by the japanese, right? Bullet = awesome, whip = EWWWWW. Right. If you are just going to base it on whether something sounds cool or not then all hope is lost.
What I really think many fansubbers could use are good writers to act as editors. Scanlators of the manga too. This would probably cause an uproar among certain people but at least it would reduce the amount of awkward/unnatural/ridiculous dialogue and grammar that is all too common in my opinion.
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To me, it makes no difference how nakama is handled. If it's there, it's there. If it's not, it's not. However, I do like the attack animations, so I chose D.
let's discuss this in a civilized manner, bros
Good luck with that.EDIT:Too late.By the way, do us all a favor and DON'T post that godawful fansub "documentary".
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@Super-Franky:
By the way, do us all a favor and DON'T post that godawful fansub "documentary".
What documentary, this one?
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What documentary, this one?
Yes, that one. :getlost: That guy is the whiniest little bitch I've ever heard in my entire life.
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@Super-Franky:
Yes, that one. :getlost: That guy is the whiniest little bitch I've ever heard in my entire life.
Maybe, but some of his points actually make perfect sense. While I do think he takes the whole "translate everything"-thing a bit too far, I totally agree with him that completely everyday words, like "Nakama", "Ossan" or "Yosh!" (Seriously, it means "OK". There's no deeper meaning, no alternate interpretation, just "OK") should be translated. And I, too, think that having the subtitles being just plain, static, easily readable text is much better than having fancy subtitle-effects and overly intricate subtitle-fonts.
So yeah, obviously, I voted "Translate everything". Though technically, it's more like "Translate everything except honorifics".
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When words I know are left untranslated, it helps me forget how bad I am at Japanese.
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@Vegard:
Maybe, but some of his points actually make perfect sense.
I ageed with him on a few things at first, but his "YOU'RE RETARDED IF YOU DON'T AGREE WITH ME" mindframe made it impossible after a while.
He also loses points for using a shallow excuse to bash OP: "It's a DBZ knockoff with poor art".
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I voted for the fourth option because I would like words that are translatable to be translated… yah... But I think names of attacks and whatnot are a different matter and should just have English alongside them to explain the meaning, which most decent fansubs I've seen have anyway. I also enjoy the colorful animations, so why the hell not?
I don't really have that strong of an opinion since my Japanese is good enough for me to just watch the raw most of the time.
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This is typical "japanese is better" mindset with no reasoning behind it
actually, no
thre off course is a reasoning, I think there is no such things as one language being "better" then another one in general. Still I have watched One Piece for a long time now like most people in this forum and seen many different types of fansubbing, in other anime aswell and it is just a fact that I like the non-translated attack names better. I have compared and that is just the opinion I have of it. Me liking it better that way is all the reason that is needed for me to want a fansub to be like that
And it is also indeed dependant on coolness, to me a word like Shichibukai sounds indefinately more cool then seven warlords of the sea or the dreadfull Dutch translations they are making where I am from. And I understand that for the japanese gomu gomu must sounds as ridiculous as rubber rubber would sound to us, BUT, I am not japanese or speak the language so that does not bother me at all. Also, this is my personal opinion, you may or may not agree all you like but that will not change my opinions
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They should be made however the subbers want to make them
If that leads to not translating anything proper or no proof reading.
DO NOT WANT
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This post is deleted!
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No animations that distract from the real animation for me. Normal words, as well as words with deeper meaning translated. Deeper meanings can be transferred into another languages words as well. See Star Wars Force box with the translations for how it is done.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Force_(Star_WarsAlso this thread is a bomb. Everyone,
C0K_LZDXp0I -
if it can be translated then do it I say.
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Ya know, they don't translate "Zanpakutou" in the Bleach dub. There are other shows where they don't translate some words because you lose meaning. Like in Welcome to the NHK they don't translate "Hikkikomori" in even the official DVDs. So if you think it makes it "more professional" to translate everything "because official subs do it" that's not right. If you lose connotation on something I don't think you should translate it, which is why you shouldn't translate attack names (as long as you put in a note, at least the first time it's done.) But you don't need to translate stuff like "oassan" or something which has a clear english equivalent. But important words like "nakama" or "aniki" are debatable. Really you don't lose much when you translate it, but if you have SO MANY of those that it becomes confusing to what stuff means, then it's bad. And such things like organization names and such, if it's a name you shouldn't translate it. Luckily, this is how most groups go, really. You're just insulting the fans if you need to translate stuff like that.
Also, doing things like translating Japanese names, like "Yamamoto-san" as "Mr. From the Mountains" is just wrong.
Also, people who do crap like this should be shot:
http://www.janime.biz/manga/050/02.jpg -
I think it would be hilarious if some subtitle group translated Nami as Wave.
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This poll mixes translating issues and typesetting choices, and seems to put honorifics and One Piece specific terms (nakama) in the same category which doesn't make any sense.
It's obvious nothing intelligent can come out of this, only the usual battle between nakama haters and nakama lovers, with speedsub team members dropping their comments here and there.
If there's any mod still active in this section, please, by all means, trash this.
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Yeah, you make a good point Hedi. There's a difference between what should be translated and what shouldn't, as well as attack affects.
With attack affects, they're nice as long as you're not translating them. But ones that like, fill up the screen aren't good.
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All words that are able to be translated should be translated. This includes Ossan and Nakama since they have words with similar meanings in English. I know this isn't really the same but I was reading some Buso Renkin scans and they left the words "renkin jutsu" left untranslated even though it literally means alchemy. It just baffels me how people think untranslated words sound good.
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^Considering your username, that's kind of ironic.
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My opinion is that if something is going to be translated, then it should be translated.
It's a little different subbing to Dubbing. For Dubs - their job is to convey each & every gag or piece of script into another language and even culture, and if that involves rewriting or chnaging a gag to get the same effect, that's a good job.
But Subs, well personally I like little words like Okama, Nakama, etc Translated, but I can understand why people DO want them, but to be fair, the point of subbing is so you can understand what the Japanese is. If you want the japanese words then just wacth the Japanese with hearing impaired subtitles, or something like that.
But I don't really MAJORLY care in the longrun, in fact, I watch the raws without understanding a thig that they're saying, basically just because I want to see the latest episode as soon as possible …
But for subs, yeah, i prefer what can be subbed, subbed.
Kairoseki put it best up above, if it can be subbed, it should be subbed PROPERLY, or else it's not subbing. As Wham! put it back in 1985 "If you're gonna do it, do it right" ~
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Another thing, though. If words are foreign in the original they should be left foreign in the fansub, such as Sanji's and Robin's attacks. One of the things that bothers me about the Funi dub (I know, I know) is that they constantly say Marines instead of Navy when it is Navy (the Japanese equivilant of Navy, not Marines, is used and considering Oda's usage of foreign words Marine is French for Navy).
And about my username. Kairouseki sounds awesome so I used it. It's not like I'm trying to translate a series either .
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@Kairouseki:
Another thing, though. If words are foreign in the original they should be left foreign in the fansub, such as Sanji's and Robin's attacks.
Indeed, Loan Words used by choice shoud stay. For example if someone is clearly eating Sushi, I wouldn't want it translated to Fish (or something).
Food Names or People's names or Brand names should be left alone. Kind of the way it works like in other languages, you don't translate brand names, etc.
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They should be made by FUNimation.
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^ But that would defeat the purpose of it being a fansub .
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@Kairouseki:
^ But that would defeat the purpose of it being a fansub .
And the fact that Funimation leaves stuff like "Haramaki", without ever even explaining what it is.
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Wouldn't be hard to figure out. It's the only thing he wears that isn't basic as hell.
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I voted "Translate everything". Obviously translation should translate, if you don't want to translate the "magic language sama" then don't make subs.
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When words I know are left untranslated, it helps me forget how bad I am at Japanese.
I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not. :sad:
Ya know, they don't translate "Zanpakutou" in the Bleach dub.
I don't understand why they did this. Didn't they translate other Japanese words (that never get translated in fansubs) like Shinigami? Why would they leave Zanpaktou untranslated? @kewl0210:
There are other shows where they don't translate some words because you lose meaning. Like in Welcome to the NHK they don't translate "Hikkikomori" in even the official DVDs.
I don't understand this either. I'll use nakama as an example…
Nakama, to my understanding, just means friend to Japanese viewers. So by leaving it untranslated, do English speakers get some kind of special meaning that the original Japanese viewers (or even Oda himself) don't?So if you think it makes it "more professional" to translate everything "because official subs do it" that's not right.
I agree. Professional companies don't always get it right.
If you lose connotation on something I don't think you should translate it, which is why you shouldn't translate attack names (as long as you put in a note, at least the first time it's done.)
I completely disagree with you on this. What connotation is lost when translating an attack name exactly? Am I losing something in the story if I can understand what the character is saying? Even if the translators left a note the first time, how am I supposed to remember all those foreign words? I know the meaning of most of the Japanese attack names for One Piece, only because it is my favourite series. But I get annoyed as hell when I'm reading Fairy Tail and something like "Karyuu No Tekken" is thrown at me :getlost:. And if I want to know what it means, I have to go back and search for the chapter it was first introduced to find the translation note.
@kewl0210:But you don't need to translate stuff like "oassan" or something which has a clear english equivalent. But important words like "nakama" or "aniki" are debatable.
Nakama and aniki have clear English equivalents also, do they not?
@kewl0210:Really you don't lose much when you translate it, but if you have SO MANY of those that it becomes confusing to what stuff means, then it's bad.
Exactly! The purpose of a translation is to help you understand a story in a foreign language, not make you memorize random words in that foreign language. This applies to attack names also.
@kewl0210:And such things like organization names and such, if it's a name you shouldn't translate it. Luckily, this is how most groups go, really. You're just insulting the fans if you need to translate stuff like that.
Ok, so an organization like the Navy or the World Government should not be translated?
@kewl0210:Also, doing things like translating Japanese names, like "Yamamoto-san" as "Mr. From the Mountains" is just wrong.
I agree, names should be the only things left alone.
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I voted the first one, but really it doesn't matter to me what they do just as long as what they do translate is accurate.
But I voted the first one because I do prefer nakama and gomu gomu myself.
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It is indeed Navy. The speech uses Kaigun which means Navy while Kaiheita means Marines. And the letters that say MARINE on buildings are most likely French (or German I think). In these languages Marine means Navy.
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@Kairouseki:
It is Navy. The speech uses Kaigun which means Navy while Kaiheita means Marines. And the letters that say MARINE on buildings are most likely French (or German I think). In these languages Marine means Navy.
Alright thanks, I'll keep that in mind :happy:
I edited my post also -
Nobody will ever come to a consensus on Attack names and Honorifics. Those will stay, and honestly there's a good argument to keep those even if I don't agree.
Terms like Shichibukai (IE Names of people and Organizations) can be considered Proper Nouns, so it at least makes sense to leave those even if I don't prefer it.Nakama and Ossan and Nii-san/Nee-San, and Baka and terms like these, ones where they aren't series-specific and they're just normal Japanese words, they NEED TO BE Translated.
It's Dumb and inconsistent not to. -
I'd have answered "Seriously, I don't give a damn how you decide to translate it." That's my opinion on the matter.
If you want me to archive it, though, instead of watch it then toss it, all I'd ask is that you properly spell check the thing and use a font that is reasonably readable at a distance. I suggest Helvetica Neue, or something along those lines. I don't watch them all 10 inches away from my laptop.
Translate whatever you want, as long as an English speaker who has watched every episode up to that point (meaning he/she was watching KF and VP subs as well, where honorifics and the like were untranslated) can generally figure it out without having to freeze frame more than 5 times an episode to read the entirety of the translation in quotes at the top of the screen. As long as you do all that, I archive it. If not, I toss it. If you don't care about it being tossed, then that's fine too. Sometimes I just download them to watch them, then archive someone else's work later.
I also prefer to download the work of polite subbers who don't rag on other sub groups consistently. I lived through my teenage years, I have no interest in reliving that emo BS, ever. I don't care if your 17 year old emo angst makes you furious that someone isn't subbing the show the way you think it should be subbed. Nor do I want to read it, ever. Even if you do awesome work translating and subbing a show, I might just decide you're too much of an annoying prick to support by seeding that out and using my upload bandwidth. Yeah, it's illogical, but I do that because I like a group and I like what they're doing. Both parts are equally important to me.
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I'd have answered
Translate whatever you want, as long as an English speaker who has watched every episode up to that point (meaning he/she was watching KF and VP subs as well, where honorifics and the like were untranslated) can generally figure it out without having to freeze frame more than 5 times an episode to read the entirety of the translation in quotes at the top of the screen. As long as you do all that, I archive it. If not, I toss it. If you don't care about it being tossed, then that's fine too. Sometimes I just download them to watch them, then archive someone else's work later.The problem at this point, FUNimation has released up to Episode 66 on DVD. That's past 38, the episode where K-F did their "Nakama is a Holy Word" thing at the beginning of the Episode. So now, theoretically, someone could watch all of the FUNi DVDs, then move onto K-F and be lost as to what "Nakama" means, because they don't bother with any notes after Episode 38.
Nakama is the only word I REALLY REALLY Care about. It SHOULD BE TRANSLATED!!
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Really, when you're doing pro (or pro quality) translations, you gotta go point-by-point. For example, Zoro's attacks have a very Japanese air to them, so it's best to leave them untranslated. But let's say some cowboy-looking character comes along, and let's say he can shoot black fireballs. He calls out the attack name, and it's "Black Flames" in Japanese. Would it make sense to leave his attack name untranslated when it's obviously something simple, and used by a character like that? No.
Same with Bleach. The Soul Society is very Japanese-themed, so the translators leave its terminology in Japanese.
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Really, when you're doing pro (or pro quality) translations, you gotta go point-by-point. For example, Zoro's attacks have a very Japanese air to them, so it's best to leave them untranslated. But let's say some cowboy-looking character comes along, and let's say he can shoot black fireballs. He calls out the attack name, and it's "Black Flames" in Japanese. Would it make sense to leave his attack name untranslated when it's obviously something simple, and used by a character like that? No.
Same with Bleach. The Soul Society is very Japanese-themed, so the translators leave its terminology in Japanese.
Exactly, Zoro is CLEARLY Japanese themed, so it's obvious keeping his for that sake works.
That's why Bleach works, because it's CLEARLY Japanese and Samurai themed, so it works as well.
The rest of the OP world is PIRATE themed. Western Pirate themed specifically, as most of the Pirates used Scabbards, not Katana.
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(looks at poll results)
. . . I don't understand. What is with anime fans these days?
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The rest of the OP world is PIRATE themed. Western Pirate themed specifically, as most of the Pirates used Scabbards, not Katakana.
I wasn't aware that Katakana was a weapon at all.
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I'm for translate everything, but leave honorifics. Even attack names, because sometimes i forget what a new attack name means so i'm stuck with having to look it up or on rare cases pause the screen to read the note they sometimes put. Which kinda defeats leaving it untranslated if they put a note. I don't mind the way funimation is doing it in dubs, since they give it to you in english the first time, then original anytime after that.
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@Super-Franky:
I wasn't aware that Katakana was a weapon at all.
Katana is what Japanese-Style Samurai swords are called, even though Katana is the Japanese word for Sword.
Like, in the Mythbusters episode where they do "Cutting a Sword with another Sword", they have several different kinds of Swords, like the Broadsword and such.
They call the Japanese sword the "Katana" because that's what it's become to Western culture these days.
Just like how Sake is just the Japanese word for "Alcohol", but to Non-Japanese people, Sake specifically refers to the type of Japanese wine you get in those round jugs that you drink out of the tiny bowls. Like Watch The Iron Man movie, they have Sake at one point (even if Robert Downey Jr. Pronounced it wrong)Like for example. If you were watching OP and lets say the Whitebeard-Shanks Scene happens where Shanks Brings the big Sake bottle and the two drink. They were drinking out of (REALLY big versions of…) the Little Sake Bowls, and the Bottle said Sake in Kanji. It's clear that's what they're drinking, so putting "Sake" Makes perfect sense.
But if someone is chugging a bottle that clearly says "RUM" on it (which has happened, look at Blackbeard's "The Dreams Of Pirates Will NEVER end!" Speech scene) and someone comments on the "Sake", it should be translated out as "Booze" or "Grog" or maybe flat out "Rum" or something, because it's NOT Japanese-style alcohol.
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most of the Pirates used Scabbards, not Katakana.
Some shouldve told em the pen is mightier than the sword.
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^
^ I think you missed the joke. -
Ok, I just caught my "Katakana" Mistake… XP
I type Katakana a lot when talking about Translation, so It just happened on accident XD
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I watch a lot of European films and I get upset when I find out that the official translation has removed some of the cultural references or changed the meaning behind something that's been said, so why would I want my anime translated in this same way, but by people who are most certainly a lot less worthy of creating their own English translation? If most professional subbers don't have the required skill to provide accurate representations of what's being said, the core meaning and emotion of the words provided, why would a fansubber? Leave as much as untranslated, please. It SHOULD take a little more effort to watch something from another culture than your own.