Shichibukai strength

[Blue-Eyes]

Moria's ultimate power has nothing to do with shadows asgard… it is his control over shadows. Thats called Shadow Revolution, that move has the godly potential, ... deforming people and structures by invading their shadows... His power has nothing to do with zombies in the first place...

Damn you Oda, i hate the way you make people have to think twice to see Moria's power... But hell, i know the same people were calling Crocodile weak before he had his comeback.... A few pictures seem to tell more than a thousand thoughts, even if they are shown in the manga.

Power is something very fluid, the title Shichibukai is not saying anything about the power, but the ability to even out the Yonkou side of the world powers. All seven pirates are wardeciding on their own. People like Magellan and Cipher Pol. 9 are not included in this, its just 4 Yonkou vs Marine Headquaters + Shichibukai.

By now it should be clear, that "top tier" discussions are pointless and show that someone didn't understand Oda's OP-verse. Crocodile, Moria, Kuma, Jinbei and Doflamingo have demonstrated, that they fit their role and that they take their job serious. And without a doubt they have the power to do their job.

[h3h3h3]

This post is deleted!

[h3h3h3]

@Ubiq:

This is a common misconception; Mihawk actually sliced Krieg's galleon into three sections, not two. So he cut it into thirds.

Scans .

[Nuzzie]

@h3h3h3:

Scans .

!

I'm surprised so many never knew :blink:

[Jejune]

@Zkaiser:

To me, Warlords should be able to deal out MASSIVE damage with ease.
So far the other three lack the power to do this easily.

Mihawk: cut a huge boat in half.

Crocodile: creates sandstorms.

Kuma: Ursa Shock.

Jinbei: can create mini knock up streams.

Blackbeard: Swallows towns whole.

And these guys do this easily with no one else's help. I want to see this display of power from each Armed Sea, and I don't know if we will.

@Blue-Eyes:

Damn you Oda, i hate the way you make people have to think twice to see Moria's power… But hell, i know the same people were calling Crocodile weak before he had his comeback.... A few pictures seem to tell more than a thousand thoughts, even if they are shown in the manga.

These. Moria's the one people dismiss, maybe it's because we haven't seen him defeat multiple people at once.. Even though his abilities are more strategy based and his zombies should be counted with his power, it doesn't seem as amazing when compared with the five we've seen who've caused huge damage by themselves. (Boa doesn't compare at the moment either but everyone's giving her the benefit of the doubt.) I don't count Asgard since it was a last resort move. I hope his glory didn't end at TB, and besides, he got his bounty before his zombie army right? I'd like to see why, maybe he'll get more respect then.

[Zkaiser]

@Jejune:

These. Moria's the one people dismiss, maybe it's because we haven't seen him defeat multiple people at once.. Even though his abilities are more strategy based and his zombies should be counted with his power, it doesn't seem as amazing when compared with the five we've seen who've caused huge damage by themselves. (Boa doesn't compare at the moment either but everyone's giving her the benefit of the doubt.) I don't count Asgard since it was a last resort move. I hope his glory didn't end at TB, and besides, he got his bounty before his zombie army right? I'd like to see why, maybe he'll get more respect then.

I'm not saying that Moria is weak, I'm just saying that he's not as epic as the others seem to be. The Armed Sea program is meant to recruit SINGULAR pirates who are so sickeningly powerful that their mere existence causes people to piss their pants. They have the power to CASUALLY fuck up large things with ease. Deterrence by existence.

I don't get that feeling from anyone but Mihawk.

[Ryuksgelus]

@Zkaiser:

I'm not saying that Moria is weak, I'm just saying that he's not as epic as the others seem to be. The Armed Sea program is meant to recruit SINGULAR pirates who are so sickeningly powerful that their mere existence causes people to piss their pants. They have the power to CASUALLY fuck up large things with ease. Deterrence by existence.

I don't get that feeling from anyone but Mihawk.

They've never really much emphasis on the Warlords powers just their reputation.

Moria is a man who once fought equally with an Emperor. That may be the only bit of info the average citizen or common pirate know about him.

Hancock is a leader of female man-slayers who leaves any ships' she encounters adrift due to the crew being turned to stone.

Mihawk is the acknowledged as the best swordsman in the World Greatest Swordsman meaning every scary marine with a sword they've ever met or heard of isn't as good.

Jinbei is the leader of the Fishman pirates and likely the strongest Fishman, a species that are probably greatly feared as monsters by normal pirates already.

Kuma is known as a Tyrant who has committed every atrocity a pirate could commit.

These reputations gain even more weight when pirates attain more knowledge of the seas dangers on their travels. What these pirates abilities actually are is almost irrelevant. The deterrent comes from the fact that out of everything pirates may face while traveling the Grand Line, these guys are supposed to be even worse.

[Jejune]

@Zkaiser:

I'm not saying that Moria is weak, I'm just saying that he's not as epic as the others seem to be. The Armed Sea program is meant to recruit SINGULAR pirates who are so sickeningly powerful that their mere existence causes people to piss their pants. They have the power to CASUALLY fuck up large things with ease. Deterrence by existence.

I don't get that feeling from anyone but Mihawk.

I was agreeing with you, in a rambling way. He's not weak at all but I want him to flaunt his powers a bit more.

[ultimec1a]

@Ryuksgelus:

They've never really much emphasis on the Warlords powers just their reputation.

Moria is a man who once fought equally with an Emperor. That may be the only bit of info the average citizen or common pirate know about him.

Hancock is a leader of female man-slayers who leaves any ships' she encounters adrift due to the crew being turned to stone.

Mihawk is the acknowledged as the best swordsman in the World Greatest Swordsman meaning every scary marine with a sword they've ever met or heard of isn't as good.

Jinbei is the leader of the Fishman pirates and likely the strongest Fishman, a species that are probably greatly feared as monsters by normal pirates already.

Kuma is known as a Tyrant who has committed every atrocity a pirate could commit.

These reputations gain even more weight when pirates attain more knowledge of the seas dangers on their travels. What these pirates abilities actually are is almost irrelevant. The deterrent comes from the fact that out of everything pirates may face while traveling the Grand Line, these guys are supposed to be even worse.

Great post.

@Jejune:

I was agreeing with you, in a rambling way. He's not weak at all but I want him to flaunt his powers a bit more.

The problem is the utility and function of Moria's Powers–they do not allow for flaunting. His powers are more for reconnaissance and strategy, not overwhelming power and massive retaliation. His powers are precise, the other Shichibukai's powers are (seemingly) more geared towards destruction and get the job done. In fact, the only move he showcased that was geared towards destruction was Shadow Asgard--which in turn caused him to lose control of his powers and mind--which shows us the audience that his powers are not meant to be flaunted in ways that some of you want it to be.

[Jejune]

@ultimec1a:

The problem is the utility and function of Moria's Powers–they do not allow for flaunting. His powers are more for reconnaissance and strategy, not overwhelming power and massive retaliation. His powers are precise, the other Shichibukai's powers are (seemingly) more geared towards destruction and get the job done. In fact, the only move he showcased that was geared towards destruction was Shadow Asgard--which in turn caused him to lose control of his powers and mind--which shows us the audience that his powers are not meant to be flaunted in ways that some of you want it to be.

Heh, I know, I know. I suppose it's just what Zkaiser says about getting an "epic" vibe from the others. Honestly, it's probably simply because he hasn't shown any major "fodder removal" techniques that all the others have. XD Although if Doflamingo's power is controlling one or two people then he'll be in the same boat.

[Ubiq]

@Nuzzie:

I'm surprised so many never knew :blink:

Most people are familiar with the scans off the old MSN group (by Mangascreener? I forget.) and the scan of the image in question distorts the middle in such a way that you can't see the third slice.

Of course, it's obvious that the ship is in three pieces two pages later, but the initial image of the ship breaking up is the one that sticks in people's minds and the predominant image people have is that of the old scan.

Anyway, on the issue of Moria, the guy is a lot tougher than people give him credit for. He took a Pistol from Shadow Luffy right to the face (and probably some of the Storm he used on Odz as well) and was up and about… what, five minutes later?

[Zkaiser]

You mean the second slice. Mihawk cut the boat twice.

[Ubiq]

@Zkaiser:

You mean the second slice. Mihawk cut the boat twice.

Yeah. I was going to say the third section of ship and the second slice as the scan in question obscures both and wound up combining the two phrases.

Come to think of it, I guess there's really no way to know that Mihawk actually cut twice; for all we know he might able to do this sort of thing with one attack.

[Zkaiser]

HAWK CLAW!!

It's Mihawk's version of Sanji's Santen Decoupage. :P

[ShinjiG]

@Thousand:

Ah, but it was a ship he made by remodeling an island

Sorry, but victory goes to me

a) where was it said that he was made by remodeling an island?
b) how would you remodel an island to being a ship?
c) even if you could in the end it is still just a mass of dirt on top of a wooden frame, it lacks the support structure that goes down to the ocean floor than an island would have.

So moria smashed a ship, not an island. and had he split it in two or whatever then the ship would have started to sink, which it did not do.

[Ryuksgelus]

Moria hand created a huge canyon through hundreds of feet of dirt, different sediment, and bedrock.

Hurray for arguing semantics.

[TLC]

@ShinjiG:

a) where was it said that he was made by remodeling an island?
b) how would you remodel an island to being a ship?
c) even if you could in the end it is still just a mass of dirt on top of a wooden frame, it lacks the support structure that goes down to the ocean floor than an island would have.

So moria smashed a ship, not an island. and had he split it in two or whatever then the ship would have started to sink, which it did not do.

http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/443/16-17/
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/443/18/
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/489/13/
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/481/16/

It's an island. Victory to me:)

[Tanuki]

@ShinjiG:

So moria smashed a ship, not an island. and had he split it in two or whatever then the ship would have started to sink, which it did not do.

To be fair, Kuma's huge explosion technique didn't manage this either, nor Luffy or Oz. I think it's safe to say just getting it to that state is a sheer testiment to Moria's toughness.

I say toughness, not strength, because I believe his ability to take punishment was what allowed him to devour all those shadows in the first place. We know Moria's one tough guy, and he can sure take a whoopin better than most.

Still don't get everyone's disdain for Moria on this forum. I for one thought he was one of the more interesting major villains the strawhats have come across opposed to a stock psychopath or chessmaster.

[ShinjiG]

@Thousand:

http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/443/16-17/
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/443/18/
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/489/13/
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/481/16/

It's an island. Victory to me:)

pure hyperbole. A ship is a ship. While thriller bark may be several miles wide, it is still a ship. Though I do concede that it was a modified island, but it is now a ship. With a mast, steering wheel etc…

To be fair, Kuma's huge explosion technique didn't manage this either, nor Luffy or Oz. I think it's safe to say just getting it to that state is a sheer testiment to Moria's toughness.

I say toughness, not strength, because I believe his ability to take punishment was what allowed him to devour all those shadows in the first place. We know Moria's one tough guy, and he can sure take a whoopin better than most.

Still don't get everyone's disdain for Moria on this forum. I for one thought he was one of the more interesting major villains the strawhats have come across opposed to a stock psychopath or chessmaster.

exactly, all statements were hyperbole. Not factual statements. No one as seen so far can destroy islands yet.

That said, Moria is near invincible in the sun, any peoples whose shadows he gets die instantly.

[Zkaiser]

@Tanuki:

To be fair, Kuma's huge explosion technique didn't manage this either, nor Luffy or Oz. I think it's safe to say just getting it to that state is a sheer testiment to Moria's toughness.

No one else ever attacked the ground directly or at all for that matter. Moria is underwhelming. Not weak, just not epic.

[The man with a pigeon]

Compared to other Shichibukais, I think Blackbeard is a little bit overrated and may possibly be the weakest of them all.

With that said, that's not a bad thing. After all, he's one of my tips for Luffy's final opponent(the second guess being Dragon), but as of now, I think the story should emphasize that he's an opportunist.

He has a very strong fruit, no doubt, but his ability has one weakness compared to other logias and that's why I think he should stay in the shadows, because he's a constantly growing threat, just like Luffy.

So while not the best right now, he's gonna be the number one soon.

[GODA_8000]

@The:

Compared to other Shichibukais, I think Blackbeard is a little bit overrated and may possibly be the weakest of them all.

If this is was the case, I think that just makes Ace's defeat all the more embarrassing/hiliarous.

Edit: Speaking of Ace, its kind of weird to have Ace to fight on equal terms with Jimbei, only to fall against someone "weaker".

[Ubiq]

@The:

Compared to other Shichibukais, I think Blackbeard is a little bit overrated and may possibly be the weakest of them all.

Based on the fact that Shanks was injured by him, we have to conclude that Teach is at least as strong as Shanks, who is approximately equal to Mihawk and close enough to Kaidou that he was able to intercept his fellow Emperor. Kaidou is at least as strong as Moria (but with a better crew than the latter fielded).

So Teach is at least as strong as Mihawk and Moria and certainly not the weakest of the Shichibukai in any event.

The fact that Shanks went to Whitebeard to discuss the issue, and has bothered Newgate enough about it over the years that Whitebeard is tired of hearing about it, is a pretty good sign that Shanks doesn't think he can beat Teach. So that would put him ahead of Mihawk as well as Moria on the depth chart.

[TLC]

@ShinjiG:

pure hyperbole. A ship is a ship. While thriller bark may be several miles wide, it is still a ship. Though I do concede that it was a modified island, but it is now a ship. With a mast, steering wheel etc…

The heck? Just because it was modified to act like a ship doesn't change the fact that it is still, in essence, an island. The point is that Moria split an island in two, the island had the density and structure of a mass of land which makes Moria's feet more impressive and is the point of the statement "He split an ISLAND in two!" because that's what he did. Also, what am I exaggerating? The fact that the ship is an island which is true?

[MagneticMonkey]

@Ubiq:

The fact that Shanks went to Whitebeard to discuss the issue, and has bothered Newgate enough about it over the years that Whitebeard is tired of hearing about it, is a pretty good sign that Shanks doesn't think he can beat Teach. So that would put him ahead of Mihawk as well as Moria on the depth chart.

I agree with the first part of your post but this confuses me. What we saw wasn't the first time shanks met WB to discuss BBs issue?

[Ryuksgelus]

@Ubiq:

Based on the fact that Shanks was injured by him, we have to conclude that Teach is at least as strong as Shanks, who is approximately equal to Mihawk and close enough to Kaidou that he was able to intercept his fellow Emperor. Kaidou is at least as strong as Moria (but with a better crew than the latter fielded).

So Teach is at least as strong as Mihawk and Moria and certainly not the weakest of the Shichibukai in any event.

The fact that Shanks went to Whitebeard to discuss the issue, and has bothered Newgate enough about it over the years that Whitebeard is tired of hearing about it, is a pretty good sign that Shanks doesn't think he can beat Teach. So that would put him ahead of Mihawk as well as Moria on the depth chart.

Umm no. He injured him seriously at one point in a fight but Shanks could have been smacking him around the rest of the fight for all we know. Shanks only put emphasis that Teach was able to hurt him indicating he believes the man is a possible threat. If the thought he was possibly equal to him 10 years ago he would have directly stated so. Just like how WB was fairly straight forward about Mihawks strength definitely being a match for Shanks.

What? Way they made it seem that meeting was the first time he had ever spoken to WB in such a way. Both crews reactions to the meeting as well as the Governments response should tell you that. Here is a better way to understand Teach standing amongst the Shichibukai.

He beat Ace with his fists and grazing blows so we can say he's stronger than Jinbei who likely was using water techniques to smack Ace around yet Ace was still apparently a match for him. Then obviously he's stronger than Moria and believing for a sec he couldn't wreck Crocodile(if hes counting him) is retarded.

[lutadakatsu]

@Ubiq:

Based on the fact that Shanks was injured by him, we have to conclude that Teach is at least as strong as Shanks, who is approximately equal to Mihawk and close enough to Kaidou that he was able to intercept his fellow Emperor. Kaidou is at least as strong as Moria (but with a better crew than the latter fielded).

So Teach is at least as strong as Mihawk and Moria and certainly not the weakest of the Shichibukai in any event.

The fact that Shanks went to Whitebeard to discuss the issue, and has bothered Newgate enough about it over the years that Whitebeard is tired of hearing about it, is a pretty good sign that Shanks doesn't think he can beat Teach. So that would put him ahead of Mihawk as well as Moria on the depth chart.

Actually these facts only prove that Shanks views Blackbeard as a credible threat. If Shanks actually thought that Blackbeard was a better fighter than either himself, Mihawk or Whitebeard he would have said so because that would have lent more support to his argument that Blackbeard was too much for Ace to handle.

I think you are overrating Blackbeard based on the fact that he scarred Shanks. We don’t really know if Shanks fought at full strength during that encounter. Just because he wasn't careless doesn't mean he fought with all of his power. His conversation with Whitebeard indicates that Shanks underestimated Blackbeard’s strength when they 1st fought. Underestimating an opponent and being careless are not the same thing. We’ve seen that in the past Shanks (or his crew) have demonstrated that they don’t go all out when confronting weaker enemies (mountain bandits). In fact, throughout the manga we've seen that most of the characters do not use their full strength when dealing with what they perceive as weaker opponents. By saying that Blackbeard had been hiding in Whitebeard’s shadow, Shanks is basically admitting that he did not recognize Blackbeard’s true power unitl after they fought. Therefore it is at least plausible to assume that when Shanks and Blackbeard fought, Shanks did not go all out.

Even if Shanks was using his full power we still don’t know whether or not it was pure skill and power that allowed Blackbeard to scar him. After all he lost his arm saving Luffy from a Sea King that should have been no threat to him. How do we know Blackbeard did not create an opening by threatening one of the weaker crewmates of the Red-Hair Pirates or some random bystander?

[onemoment]

@Ryuksgelus:

Umm no. He injured him seriously at one point in a fight but Shanks could have been smacking him around the rest of the fight for all we know. Shanks only put emphasis that Teach was able to hurt him indicating he believes the man is a possible threat. If the thought he was possibly equal to him 10 years ago he would have directly stated so. Just like how WB was fairly straight forward about Mihawks strength definitely being a match for Shanks.

What? Way they made it seem that meeting was the first time he had ever spoken to WB in such a way. Both crews reactions to the meeting as well as the Governments response should tell you that. Here is a better way to understand Teach standing amongst the Shichibukai.

He beat Ace with his fists and grazing blows so we can say he's stronger than Jinbei who likely was using water techniques to smack Ace around yet Ace was still apparently a match for him. Then obviously he's stronger than Moria and believing for a sec he couldn't wreck Crocodile(if hes counting him) is retarded.

Sounds like a real stretch there. If Shanks had beat Teach, then why not say it? And, why is it after that fight that Shanks is scarred while Blackbeard isn't?

From the way you're stating things it sounds like you don't want to believe Blackbeard is that strong. There's really no good reason he can't be on par with Shanks except for the fact you don't want to believe it. That said, with your basis of proof there's no way to prove who's stronger until one of these guys gets into a fight again. That is to say, I don't think you'll be convinced until you see Blackbeard beat someone like Shanks.

I'm really dissappointed that this scarring scene keeps getting twisted like this. It seems pretty simple that the message is "Blackbeard has comparable strength to Shanks." Why would Shanks state "I wasn't careless?" The entire point of that statement is to tell us that it wasn't a fluke, that Shanks wasn't fighting at low strength, or that the injury wasn't anyone's fault except Blackbeard.

Oh, and that he didn't "takek a hostage" either. All of the things lutadakatsu states count under "being careless," and would make the scar pointless. It was pure skill. Or power. Same difference.

[Ubiq]

@MagneticMonkey:

I agree with the first part of your post but this confuses me. What we saw wasn't the first time shanks met WB to discuss BBs issue?

Let me refer to his meeting with Rockstar.

@stephen's:

Rockstar: …Boss said that was really urgent...!!

Whitebeard: I can guess what it said... about "Ace" and "Blackbeard".

The subject had obviously come up before then if Whitebeard knew exactly what was in the letter.

@Ryuksgelus:

Umm no. He injured him seriously at one point in a fight but Shanks could have been smacking him around the rest of the fight for all we know. Shanks only put emphasis that Teach was able to hurt him indicating he believes the man is a possible threat. If the thought he was possibly equal to him 10 years ago he would have directly stated so. Just like how WB was fairly straight forward about Mihawks strength definitely being a match for Shanks.

Right:

@Chapter:

Shanks: This one was no mark of adventure.
It did not come at the hands of Hawk-Eyes…
This scar was given to me
by YOUR man, "Blackbeard" Teach...!!
And it was not a cheap blow taken by surprise.
Do you understand what I'm saying, Whitebeard?!
He was waiting for his chance... He didn't take a captain's position, he didn't take the fame.
He was spending all of his time hiding in the shadow of your name!!!
And when he gained his power... he struck.
Ultimately, he will seek the very top.
Of his OWN will!!
Eventually, he will even come to steal YOUR position!!

That's a pretty clear statement that Shanks thinks that Teach is or will soon be a threat to Whitebeard himself. Anybody that's a threat to Whitebeard is a threat to Shanks as Newgate is the most powerful of the Yonkou.

What? Way they made it seem that meeting was the first time he had ever spoken to WB in such a way. Both crews reactions to the meeting as well as the Governments response should tell you that. Here is a better way to understand Teach standing amongst the Shichibukai.

Again, the Rockstar meeting says that the issue of Teach has come up before though Whitebeard may not have been all that familiar with some of the details.

@lutadakatsu:

Even if Shanks was using his full power we still don’t know whether or not it was pure skill and power that allowed Blackbeard to scar him. After all he lost his arm saving Luffy from a Sea King that should have been no threat to him. How do we know Blackbeard did not create an opening by threatening one of the weaker crewmates of the Red-Hair Pirates or some random bystander?

Because Shanks is clear that it wasn't a cheap shot and that Teach is far more powerful than anybody ever expected?

[choperman]

well I haven't posted for awhile here so i'll say it again i think the ratings of strength had already been predicted by the last two bounty increasing battles

sir crocodile and Lucci are both the major enemies
mr.1 and kaku second strongest (not counting robin because she doesn’t fit into one of these seven categories) + swordsmen
mr.2 and Jyabura were both third strongest enemies (mr.2 was stronger than that stupid spike girl he was) + they had martial arts skill (for Jyabura that would also include tekkai kenpou which he knew exclusively since they all knew Rokushiki)
Mr. 3 and blueno: weird hair :getlost: just kidding they were both beaten before the other battles ever started
Mr. 4 and Kumadori are really frekin tall
MRS. Merry Christmas and Fukurou are both rather fat and are each faster in their own environment (dirt and it was said that Fukurouwas best in the air and compared him to an owl)
Mrs. Double finger and Kalifa are both attractive women and have Paramecia devil fruits

Sooooooooooo I know that there strength match ups of the two organizations are a little different so I used cp9 and leveling with I tiny bit of BQ logic

Black beard = I think is the strongest or at least will be
Mihawk = Swordsmen I assume 2nd strongest
Donquixote Doflimingo = ????
Gecko moria = got beat early on more cunning than kuma not nearly as strong
Kuma = really tall along with one other candidate who better fits another position
Jinbei = fat and his element is water
Boa Hancock = Attractive girl and Paramecia devil fruits

But some of those seem weak I know but now besides the exception of two we’ve got a bounty list that goes hand in hand with cp9’s ratting of power

Those exceptions are

Mihawk who we know will have the highest bounty of them (I would guess that anyways)

And Black beard who has a bounty of zero but I think Oda does this to show bounties aren’t everything

Anyways

Donquixote Doflamingo: 340,000,000
Gecko Moria: 320,000,000 (again more cunning than kuma not stronger per say)
Bartholomew Kuma: 296,000,000
Jimbei: Image: 250,000,000
Boa Hancock: 80,000,000

Anyways I thought the bounty thing kind of helped my argument out a bit maybe not but who knows maybe I’ll convince somebody this time around

[Ryuksgelus]

@onemoment:

Sounds like a real stretch there. If Shanks had beat Teach, then why not say it? And, why is it after that fight that Shanks is scarred while Blackbeard isn't?

From the way you're stating things it sounds like you don't want to believe Blackbeard is that strong. There's really no good reason he can't be on par with Shanks except for the fact you don't want to believe it. That said, with your basis of proof there's no way to prove who's stronger until one of these guys gets into a fight again. That is to say, I don't think you'll be convinced until you see Blackbeard beat someone like Shanks

I'm really dissappointed that this scarring scene keeps getting twisted like this. It seems pretty simple that the message is "Blackbeard has comparable strength to Shanks." Why would Shanks state "I wasn't careless?" The entire point of that statement is to tell us that it wasn't a fluke, that Shanks wasn't fighting at low strength, or that the injury wasn't anyone's fault except Blackbeard.

Oh, and that he didn't "takek a hostage" either. All of the things lutadakatsu states count under "being careless," and would make the scar pointless. It was pure skill. Or power. Same difference.

If he had lost or was being overwhelmed why wouldn't he say that? That is a far important plot point to miss. Plenty of extraneous circumstances could have ended the fight before either had the chance to show their full stuff. BB could have played the lucky weakling when a higher ranked crew member(s) came to his(their) divisions rescue, ordered to retreat immediately before or after the blow, or shanks did in fact kick his ass after sustaining the wound. All those missing teeth point to past ass whoopins.

Don't know where you're getting that idea? Shank's statement about Teach always implied to me that Teach was always close to their level without a fruit and now that he has one someone like Ace stands no chance what so ever. With the fruit he's moving on up to claim the top spot.

I really hope the rest of the post isn't directed at me. I get all of that, though I don't understand why you and Ubiq believe you can't seriously injure somebody and still be weaker than them. Its like the origin of the first part of Kenshin's scar or even Franky original fight with Luffy.

That's a pretty clear statement that Shanks thinks that Teach is or will soon be a threat to Whitebeard himself. Anybody that's a threat to Whitebeard is a threat to Shanks as Newgate is the most powerful of the Yonkou.

How does this in anyway contradict the point I was making? Clearly Shanks is telling WB that Teach is coming after them. Nothing in his comments cements that he was already completely equal and capable of dealing with them 1on1 10+ years ago when Shanks got the scar. Just that he was highly capable then and now is more so.

[MagneticMonkey]

@Ubiq:

Let me refer to his meeting with Rockstar.

The subject had obviously come up before then if Whitebeard knew exactly what was in the letter.

That's an interesting point. But don't you think that whitebeard can also guess why rockstar was sent? I mean what happened before? Right Ace was sent to kill BB. WB knows Shanks got his scar from BB or don't you think he would have been surprised when shanks said "I got that scar from BB in a fight"?

[Brave heart]

wb didn't know shanks got the scar from bb, if he did he would've promoted bb to a division captain position.

[MagneticMonkey]

Then i would have expected him to be really surprised that one of his man was able to injure Shanks that much in a fight were shanks weren't attacked by surprise.

[Kishido]

Dunno maybe he isn't seeing Shanks as that powerful compared to him and that's why he wasn't suprised that one of his men was able to fight him.

[MagneticMonkey]

@KiShiDo:

Dunno maybe he isn't seeing Shanks as that powerful compared to him and that's why he wasn't suprised that one of his men was able to fight him.

WB thinks that one of his man (not a commander) is able to fight another yonkou, injure him and make him worried? That doesn't make sense to me.

[Kishido]

Dunno just a speculation but you're right. Maybe WB just stay calm.

[Brave heart]

wb has huge ego, he doesn't get surprised. he gets mad.

[The man with a pigeon]

@Ubiq:

Based on the fact that Shanks was injured by him, we have to conclude that Teach is at least as strong as Shanks, who is approximately equal to Mihawk and close enough to Kaidou that he was able to intercept his fellow Emperor. Kaidou is at least as strong as Moria (but with a better crew than the latter fielded).

So Teach is at least as strong as Mihawk and Moria and certainly not the weakest of the Shichibukai in any event.

The fact that Shanks went to Whitebeard to discuss the issue, and has bothered Newgate enough about it over the years that Whitebeard is tired of hearing about it, is a pretty good sign that Shanks doesn't think he can beat Teach. So that would put him ahead of Mihawk as well as Moria on the depth chart.

Sorry, didn't notice this.

The problem, again, is that the fight wasn't shown. but hey, Blackbeard could have been completely squashed and landed one good strike. And doing that to a Yonkou(assuming Shanks was this powerful back then) is damn impressive.

If there is a slight possibility of this scenario, then I can understand why Shanks is concerned and warned Whitebeard about Blackbeard becoming a threat.

Because he is.
Blackbeard just indirectly manipulated the World Goverment into a war with the strongest man in the world.

And what if Whitebeard loses? The balance shifts.

Blackbeard isn't a top tier and IMO, is one of the weaker Shichibukais right now. But he's getting stronger and right now, the thing that makes him even more dangerous are his plans which put him into better positions.

He's a sly bastard.

[onemoment]

I'm tempted to argue with The man with a pigeon on Blackbeard's "tier," but there's a more important part I agree with. Blacbeard is manipulating things and probably will become stronger over time, so whether or not he's the strongest or weakest shichibukai right now is irrelevant.

However, it still seems odd. Why call Blackbeard the weakest shichibukai right now? He's always seemed like one of the strongest.

It's not because of Magellan is it? Because I would have thought most people could see that was, to put it in one phrase, a false defeat.

[Silence]

He's not top tier and one of the weaker Shichibukai… buuuut he decisively beat one of Whitebeard's top fighters, killed Whitebeard's 4th commander, has the power to completely nullify Devil Fruits, became a Shichibukai without needing a bounty, and was dangerous enough to permanently scar Shanks, back when he had both arms, and Shanks wasn't fooling around - dangerous enough that Shanks used it to indicate just how much of a threat he was.

And he's one of the weaker Shichibukai?

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[The man with a pigeon]

@onemoment:

I'm tempted to argue with The man with a pigeon on Blackbeard's "tier," but there's a more important part I agree with. Blacbeard is manipulating things and probably will become stronger over time, so whether or not he's the strongest or weakest shichibukai right now is irrelevant.

However, it still seems odd. Why call Blackbeard the weakest shichibukai right now? He's always seemed like one of the strongest.

It's not because of Magellan is it? Because I would have thought most people could see that was, to put it in one word, a false defeat.

I base it on the fact that he takes everything that gets thrown at him.

Makes me wonder if he's just faking but whenever he gets hit, he succumbs to the pain for a few seconds.

I mean he's durable but can you imagine what would happen if someone strong AND fast ate the fruit?

[phyrros]

@onemoment:

It's not because of Magellan is it? Because I would have thought most people could see that was, to put it in one phrase, a false defeat.

Really? I mean its safe to assume that BB ist stronger than that but remember the usefulness of the doru doru fruit against Magellan - you never know how a fruit will work out against another in a fight. Sure, even in OP fights are mostly won because of power and/or technique but there is also this funny "pure luck" factor of the devil fruits (like, luffys DF in the fight against Enel) so there is even the possibility of BB getting totally owned by Magellan.

BB fruit makes it hard to find a fitting place in the tier scale: His fruit is for sure the best (and single?) "counter fruit" what makes him strong against DF users but to determine his real strength we will have to wait for a fight against a non fruit user…

[Ryuksgelus]

No giant trump card like Moria.

Kuma when you list his strengths on paper seems unbeatable while each time we've seen BB in action he seemed a little bit pressured.

Crocodile is protected from attacks and has a one-shot kill ability while he just has his fists.

No Hax ability like Hancock plus her status among the Kuja and King's Haki implying she's a lot more physically powerful than she looks.

His prestige isn't as high as Mihawk's.

These are the only reasons I can see people listing him as among the weakest though their mostly flawed. Even with the minimal abilities I've seen hes more dangerous than all these guys besides Mihawk&Kuma. Kuma I'm sure will be passed up in naysayers eyes when he Liberates a fireball into WB's or someone elses face and worse.

[Brave heart]

bb is more feared for his fighting ability and endurance than his df. he probably mastered his hakli to the max. his df only allows him to nullify df users ( which is a nightmare scence for all df users)

[TLC]

I have a theory on Kuma's strength. Now I think it's safe to assume Kuma got his body AFTER he became a Shickibukai as there's no way the World Government would commission Vegapunk to modify the body of a random pirate. Therefore he got his 296 million bounty and Shickibukai status SOLELY on his DF power and his exploits. Add to that, the new body he got which alone took the entire crew everything to beat it and I think you get a pretty good idea of how damn strong Kuma really is.

[Brave heart]

kumas mega steel body and teleportation will make him a very difficult opponent to defeat.

[ultimec1a]

@Thousand:

I have a theory on Kuma's strength. Now I think it's safe to assume Kuma got his body AFTER he became a Shickibukai as there's no way the World Government would commission Vegapunk to modify the body of a random pirate. Therefpre he got his 296 million bounty and Shickibukai status SOLELY on his DF power and his exploits. Add to that, the new body he got which alone took the entire crew everything to beat it and I think you get a pretty good idea of how damn strong Kuma really is.

I always thought that was obvious; good theory nonetheless.

[onemoment]

@Brave:

kumas mega steel body and teleportation will make him a very difficult opponent to defeat.

Well maybe. The problem with comparing strength is that there are a lot of invisible factors–things we can't measure. Reaction time is one example. But in this case I'm talking about strength.

My point with this is, for all we know Blackbeard, Hancock, or Moria if not all of them (Mihawk should be a given after watching Zoro for awhile. Steel Cutting.) could have the ability to break that steel. Look in the Shabody arc or Duval arc, the Strawhats broke a bunch of metal weapons, so to think that these guys couldn't do worse isn't a stretch. I mean, keep in mind that the one's who failed to injure Kuma were exhausted Straw Hat members.

That's my big problem with Kuma. The only people he ever beats are already exhausted. He seems incredibly strong, but I have to wonder how he'll do against other powerful foes. I'd like to see how he fights against a healthy opponent. As I see it, the guy has barely proven he can beat Luffy or Zoro.

The circumstances of their defeat(s) by Kuma reek of similar circumstance to the Water 7 encounter with the CP9, where Luffy and co were too emotionally distraught to fight properly. With Kuma, the first time they were exhausted from multiple intense battles, the second time they were exhausted and emotionally distraught from losing their other members. What I'm saying is, if one day a Strawhat defeated Kuma, I wouldn't be surprised.

So, I kind of went off of my original point, but what I'm saying is Kuma might be more flash then substance in combat. I'm not saying he isn't strong, but there's a good chance he's not as invincible as everyone seems to think.

But now that I read your post again, yeah, I guess Kuma's steel body and teleportation would make him tough to beat, that's true. But as I originally said, to some of the other shichibukai that steel probably isn't as big as an obstacle as it seems.

[Zkaiser]

@onemoment:

The circumstances of their defeat(s) by Kuma reek of similar circumstance to the Water 7 encounter with the CP9, where Luffy and co were too emotionally distraught to fight properly.

Where do you come up with this shit?