Shichibukai strength

onemoment

Crocodile did Ban Char in one strike and finished 3 guys.
Also, I would like to point out that they can still (if strong) get up, while no one, has strong as he is, can get up from Dryness (Again, Haki might be able to undo this)

Yes, because punching someone so hard it crushes their skull (cartoonishly, if you remember that page we're talking about)….not deadly at all.

You completely missed the point, so I'll spell it out. Your example was stupid because Luffy did far more damage then Croc, yet you for some reason arrogantly pointed it out as some damning proof of Croc's superiority.

Really, your post is reminding me of how brute strength is underestimated when talking about the shichibukai. Also, your posts about Moria and Croc....they're just the same old shit from the last hundred pages. Hey, not too long ago someone made a good argument that Moria was actually the one who lost, at an advantage, to Luffy. If you're still at the same point as the start of this topic after all this, what's the point of talking to you?

Ninjabrownie

Yeah of course man, Crocodile is still strong. And Luffy kicked his ass real good. Neither should be underestimated. If you really think about it, saying one of them was weak or pure lucky or just won because of freak circumstances, it makes the other look weaker as well. It was a rough fight for both, both gave it all.
Lighten up

For the record, Oda decided to make Luffy (the guy destined to be Pirate King) stronger/able to overcome Crocodile and Moria so far. More great names will fall to Luffys fist. As they should. The way Oda built Luffys character, they always have the opportunity for a rematch. If they arent too scared of Mugiwara

SMUDGE

@Jadosra:

Did you see how quick he can do that Drying ability?
By doing that, he would finish Luffy, yet he didn't use ONE SINGLE TIME his abilities except at the end, and at one time, which he used to mock Luffy.

I actually didn't think I would be the one to start it, lol.

Can you elaborate more on your view on the fight?

My main points are that when he fought in the tomb he only used a few sand moves, where as the most effective moves he used in the matches prior to this were nowhere to be seen, this appears to be because of the lack of sand. And from what I can gather his ability to turn any material to sand can actually take more then a few seconds.. which is time he doesn't have whilst fighting Luffy.

What do you think?

Moves excluded from the final fight:
Desert girasole
The other desert spada
Sandstorm (sables)
Desert blade
As well as that 'mass erosion' trick he uses in Arabasta

Ok so I rushed finding the moves, but I think from this you can see some of his most effective moves were excluded from the final fight, the only reason can be lack of sand to coordinate such attacks.

[hide]You totally planned this debate!! Lol. Oh I don't know why we still covers some of these over debated topics, and with knew chapters always throwing chaos into our understanding of the OP universe I see no end in sight=([/hide]

makerror

hey guys, despite how you look at it…on the 3rd fight, Croc lost to Luffy was obvious.He can counter all Croc moves because he has experience from 1st and 2nd fight.Croc wasn't underestimated him either.

!

junte86

@makerror:

hey guys, despite how you look at it…on the 3rd fight, Croc lost to Luffy was obvious.He can counter all Croc moves because he has experience from 1st and 2nd fight.Croc wasn't underestimated him either.

! http://img34.onemanga.com/mangas/00000002/00000204/16.jpg

-_- you should read the ALabasta Arc Again this is the first time I am hearing such a false information.
Let me just point out if it was THAT CLEAR WHY WOULD WE HAVING THIS KIND OF BIG DEBATA AT ALL?

brennen.exe

@onemoment:

Hey, not too long ago someone made a good argument that Moria was actually the one who lost, at an advantage, to Luffy. If you're still at the same point as the start of this topic after all this, what's the point of talking to you?

That was me. Talking to him. He thinks he "won" that. Whatever that means. Notice how I am not it with him anymore though?

@junte86:

IF IT WAS THAT CLEAR WHY WOULD WE HAVING THIS KIND OF BIG DEBATE AT ALL?

Fanboys, short memory spans, selective reading, take your pick.

junte86

well that could be true lol
but Croc's move were never countered that effectivley. Desert La spada was coutered but that was needed for the plot to continue and Luffy even with Gear 3 will have hard time doing the damage Crocodile can do with Desert Pesado and Desert Spada and Desert Death.
and considering his mastery over his DEvil Fruit I find him he is lagely being underestimated by some people.
His cunning and his mastery over his DF makes him a formidable foe for anyone.

ALthough I am not saying he can beat anyone or anything, it is clear that he can be a trouble to anyone.

Ady

@Pirate_Beers:

Metallica time!!! I'm just thinking of songs that connects the shichibukai plz don't hate.

Kuma-pacifista,paw fruit/ he is a Conspiracy. "seek and destroy"
jinbei-fishman super strength,"And justice for all" :P
crocodile-"enter sandman"/ weakness water, knows about Pluton???
hancock-mero powers,haki king/ "sad but true"
BB-darkness fruit/"The judas kiss" <–hey he betrayed WB
Mihawk "better than you"
Donflamingo-"master of puppets"
Moria-shadow fruit/"whenever i may roam" <-- lol thriller bark "all nightmare long"

haha loool so funny…but I think moria would fit better for master of puppets:D

onemoment

@brennen.exe:

That was me. Talking to him. He thinks he "won" that. Whatever that means. Notice how I am not it with him anymore though?

Fanboys, short memory spans, selective reading, take your pick.

Yeah, I was hoping he would go back and read what I thought was a good arguement, but I forgot that he was already involved in it….

Well crap. After so much time it seems the only conclusion everyone in this thread has come to is that everyone in it is hopeless and wasting each others time. How lame.

Yet, on a positive note, the arguments in this thread can be settled not by us, but by this manga eventually. I'd be willing to bet that the whole war thing will make their strengths more clear. I look forward to that.

Pirate_Beers

barkadat3p

A slightly smaller version would be greatly appreciated:happy:

rubanga

On the real i think this thread gets out of control because people seem to think that others are sayin some Shichibukai are weak when they are really saying weaker than the others. Its only natural to assume that the previous enemy is weaker than the last, if this wasnt the case then there wouldnt be much need for luffy to progress, obviously in some cases it isn't true.
Personally i would rank them as follows
Roughly Yonkou level- Mihawk, Blackbeard
Roughly Admiral level- Doflamingo, Kuma, Hancock
Level below Admiral- Crocodile, Jinbei, Moria
This is just my thoughts, obviosly doflamingo and Hancock + Jinbei's position are just speculation on my part.

Akainu

Why do people think the Yonkou are stronger than the Admirals? Seriously, how in the hell do the Marines stand even the slightest chance if their strongest fighters aren't at least as strong as the strongest pirates. It would disrupt the balance otherwise.

It's pretty damn obvious that by power-scaling and feats that the Admirals are at the top of the OPverse's food chain.

brennen.exe

A better question is, if the Admirals are as strong as the Yonkou, why have they not teamed together (y'know, since they are coworkers) and taken the the Yonkou down one by one?

Akainu

@brennen.exe:

A better question is, if the Admirals are as strong as the Yonkou, why have they not teamed together (y'know, since they are coworkers) and taken the the Yonkou down one by one?

I really dont see the Gorousei taking a risk sending the Admirals out together in the New World to go fight four Admiral-level combatants and their crews.

and/or
@Crossword:

The real answer is dictated by the plot: if they did something like that, we wouldn't be having all the drama we have now.

To me it looks like the World Government has a policy of keeping things at a certain equilibrium, given how concerned they seem to be about the world's power balance. As long as one side doesn't make a move, neither will the other, but if one side does make an aggressive move, as Whitebeard has, the other side will be forced to respond.

brennen.exe

@Akainu:

I really dont see the Gorousei taking a risk sending the Admirals out together in the New World to go fight four Admiral-level combatants and their crews.

If three Admirals = Four Yonkou, then what is the risk in sending three Admirals vs. one Yonkou? Then another. Then another. Then the last.

h3h3h3

@brennen.exe:

If three Admirals = Four Yonkou, then what is the risk in sending three Admirals vs. one Yonkou? Then another. Then another. Then the last.

Who ever told that three admirals = frou yonkou?

It's the whole marine HQ force that equals the Yonkou.

Crossword

The real answer is dictated by the plot: if they did something like that, we wouldn't be having all the drama we have now.

To me it looks like the World Government has a policy of keeping things at a certain equilibrium, given how concerned they seem to be about the world's power balance. As long as one side doesn't make a move, neither will the other, but if one side does make an aggressive move, as Whitebeard has, the other side will be forced to respond.

Akainu

@brennen.exe:

If three Admirals = Four Yonkou

Reread. I said any 1 Admiral should be on par with any 1 Yonkou save WB for obvious reasons.

Then what is the risk in sending three Admirals vs. one Yonkou? Then another. Then another. Then the last.

Do you believe that the captains are the only things that make the Yonkou a Great Power? If the Admirals ever attacked WB do you seriously believe that it'd be the 3 Admirals vs. WB by himself, or the Admirals vs. WB, Marco, Jozu, the 12 other division commanders, and the 100 men under each of them?

If it's not clear yet, it's the latter.

brennen.exe

@h3h3h3:

Who ever told that three admirals = frou yonkou?

@Akainu:

Why do people think the Yonkou are stronger than the Admirals?

I was simply arguing from his perspective. "If/Then" rhetoric.

@Crossword:

The real answer is dictated by the plot.

Chapter 234 -
Mihawk: "Marine Headquarters" and "Seven Armed Seas"… two conflicting groups of equal power holding a "round table" is a meaningless thing.
Chapter 474 -
Moria: Well, good to know the hole's been filled. And thus the balance of the world is maintained and all that crap, am I right?

^^ While Mihawk says "conflicting groups", we know that the Shichibukai are controlled (used loosely) by the World Government, and therefore allies. If those two groups are an equal force, surely their combined forces against the Yonkou are what make the balance of power "equal". Thus why they are calling all they have (Shichibukai included) to go against the #1 Yonkou. Then again, I never believed these "balances" of power to be directly equal, just a rough estimate that means any war amongst them would be chaos.

@Akainu:

Reread. I said any 1 Admiral should be on par with any 1 Yonkou save WB for obvious reasons.

Actually, you didn't. You said "the Yonkou" and "the Admirals". Even still, how does that matter? Three Admirals and four Yonkou suggests that three Admirals vs. ONE Yonkou would be sufficient, were that really the case about their equality.

@Akainu:

Do you believe that the captains are the only things that make the Yonkou a Great Power? If the Admirals ever attacked a Yonkou do you seriously believe that it'd be the 3 Admirals vs. the captain only, or the Admirals vs. the captain and the crew?

You say this as if the Marines don't have Rear Admirals, Vice Admirals, Captains, Vice Captains, etc., etc….

Herr Krokodil

@brennen.exe:

If three Admirals = Four Yonkou, then what is the risk in sending three Admirals vs. one Yonkou? Then another. Then another. Then the last.

becasue then while there strongest fighters are away that leaves them open to attack from other pirates or possibly another Yonkou

brennen.exe

@Herr:

Because then while there strongest fighters are away that leaves them open to attack from other pirates or possibly another Yonkou

It's not like they proclaim when and where they are going to attack. Surely a plan of attack could remedy this. Assuming of course that Admirals are even present at Marine Headquarters at any given time…

onemoment

@h3h3h3:

Who ever told that three admirals = frou yonkou?

It's the whole marine HQ force that equals the Yonkou.

Actually, that's a compromise that members of this board reached a long time ago.

It's not quite fact. It's just as possible that, before the power of the admirals or the yonkou captains, the normal marines and pirates will be useless and the fight will come down to the strongest fighters on each side.

Frankly, I think some people can't believe that certain members of the world powers can be that strong, so they rationalize that other factors are what hold this balance up. Which seems a litte strange in a shonen, where stronger competitors appear all the time.

Akainu

@brennen.exe:

I was simply arguing from his perspective. "If/Then" rhetoric.

I was saying that any 1 Admiral should equal any 1 Yonkou captain. It all depends on whether you think the Yonkou captains themselves make 1 great power or if it's them and their crews that make a Great Power. If you believe the former then i can see where you're coming from.

Actually, you didn't.

Again i meant individually.

Even still, how does that matter? Three Admirals and four Yonkou suggests that three Admirals vs. ONE Yonkou would be sufficient, were that really the case about their equality.

The 3 Admirals together are enough to beat any Yonkou captain. However, as i've pointed out numerous times, it's clearly not gonna be a fight between the Admirals and the captain. Unless you believe the crew will sit there and do nothing while their captain is horribly curbstomped.

You say this as if the Marines don't have Rear Admirals, Vice Admirals, Captains, Vice Captains, etc., etc….

Your post:
@Brennen.exe:

Then what is the risk in sending three Admirals vs. one Yonkou? Then another. Then another. Then the last.

You never said anything about Rear Admirals, Vice Admirals, Captains or Vice Captains being in the fight, only the Admirals.

And even if you included them it would still be 1/4 of a Great Power(1 Yonkou + crew) going up against 1 whole Great Power(MHQ), in which case the outcome is obvious anyway.

brennen.exe

@Akainu:

You never said anything about Rear Admirals, Vice Admirals, Captains or Vice Captains being in the fight, only the Admirals.

You never said anything about their crews. Yonkou means "Four Emperors"; nothing about their crew. Even if their crew was a determining factor in their overall thread (which of course it is), we were talking about the strength of an Admiral vs a single Emperor. In which case, their crew doesn't matter and neither does MHQ's "crew". So back to my original question, "if a single Admiral is as strong as a single Emperor, then why does the MHQ not simply have all three Admirals gang-bang one Emperor at a time?"

It was just a question for thought; not intended to prove anything either way. However, those quotes from the manga sure suggest that the MHQ + Shichibukai = Yonkou; not simply Admirals. So…according to that, your view of the Admirals isn't correct. But that's just my interpretation. Though, I would say as of right now I hold the most "evidence" to support my theory. But feel free to argue me on that.

Akainu

@brennen.exe:

You never said anything about their crews

My 2nd post…...

@Akainu:

I really dont see the Gorousei taking a risk sending the Admirals out together in the New World to go fight four Admiral-level combatants and their crews.

@Brennen.exe:

Yonkou means "Four Emperors"; nothing about their crew. Even if their crew was a determining factor in their overall thread (which of course it is), we were talking about the strength of an Admiral vs a single Emperor. In which case, their crew doesn't matter and neither does MHQ's "crew". So back to my original question, "if a single Admiral is as strong as a single Emperor, then why does the MHQ not simply have all three Admirals gang-bang one Emperor at a time?"

Originally Posted by Akainu
I really dont see the Gorousei taking a risk sending the Admirals out together in the New World to go fight four Admiral-level

Originally Posted by Herr Krokodil
Because then while there strongest fighters are away that leaves them open to attack from other pirates or possibly another Yonkou

@Crossword:

The real answer is dictated by the plot: if they did something like that, we wouldn't be having all the drama we have now.

To me it looks like the World Government has a policy of keeping things at a certain equilibrium, given how concerned they seem to be about the world's power balance. As long as one side doesn't make a move, neither will the other, but if one side does make an aggressive move, as Whitebeard has, the other side will be forced to respond.

@Brennen.exe:

It was just a question for thought; not intended to prove anything either way. However, those quotes from the manga sure suggest that the MHQ + Shichibukai = Yonkou; not simply Admirals. So…according to that, your view of the Admirals isn't correct. But that's just my interpretation. Though, I would say as of right now I hold the most "evidence" to support my theory. But feel free to argue me on that.

MHQ = Shichibukai = Yonkou just seems more likely.

I mean Mihawk is at least equal to Shanks. Even Moria at one point fought equally with a Yonkou. Granted many factors come into account, but it still says something. And again, the Marines would have to have Yonkou-level combatants to even remain of Great Power. Moria said that there was tons of pirates that could've be picked for Shichibukai. Croc recently talked about all of those "silver medalists" that only lost to Roger and WB. It sounds to me like the Marines wouldn't even be a factor, much less a Great Power if they didn't have fighters = with the pirate's best fighters.

Even if it turned out to be MHQ + Shichibukai = Yonkou, then they'd still need a few Yonkou-level combatants including Admirals, Mihawk, Blackbeard, Sengoku and a few other possibilities to even be able to compete. All we can use to determine the answer is powerscaling, hype, and feats.

That's as far as i am diving in that topic. As you already know, the power balance in OP is as ambiguous as it gets. Either would be fine with me, but i prefer them all to be equal.

rubanga

I agree with brennen on this, i just think its more probable that MHQ+Shichibukai=Yonkou, if the admirals were as strong as the yonkou then the marines wouldn't really need the Shichibukai. But the matter is easy to interpret either way.

brennen.exe

@Akainu:

My 2nd post…...

Exactly. You were claiming I never said anything about their crews in my original statement (or 2nd). You didn't say anything either. You brought them up later, and so did I in response.

@Akainu:

I mean Mihawk is at least equal to Shanks. Even Moria at one point fought equally with Kaidou. Granted many factors come into account, but it still says something.

Like you said, and I said before that, the power in One Piece is ambiguous. It really has no constant or guage with which to measure who is stronger or whatever. Either way we don't know enough, and can only make an educated guess based off what the manga tells us. While the Shichibukai definitely has some powerful fighters, who can say what power the Four Emperors hold? Sure Shanks sparred with Mihawk, but that is one person. Moria with Kaidou years back, but he was ultimately taken down and his crew killed, so Moria is now alone and Kaidou very well could have become stronger. Who knows.

@Akainu:

MHQ = Shichibukai = Yonkou just seems more likely.

To you, perhaps. To me? I don't see the point in giving Pirates, the #1 enemy here, amnesty for servitude if they already have three Admirals (each as strong as one Emperor), Vice/Rear Admirals, Captains, Vice Captains, Special Forces (CP1-8/9), etc. And I definitely don't see how Shichibukai and MHQ aren't allies when the WG is the employer of both groups and the Shichibukai was invented to balance the power that pirates have (Four Emperors). And assuming they are allies, and there is supposed to be a balance of power, the World Governmen't side would be MHQ + Shichibukai.

h3h3h3

@onemoment:

Actually, that's a compromise that members of this board reached a long time ago.

No, it's a fact stated by Oda. facepalm.jpg

Akainu

This post is deleted!

Phil Collins

lmao, no. Do you not get it? Whitebeard's crew is singlehandedly attacking Marine HQ, he's going up against the entire Shichibukai and Marine HQ (3 + 1 Admirals, a bunch of vice admirals), and only a handful of people seem to have any idea that the WG side is going to win (and even then, it's mainly because of Blackbeard). That speaks volumes. Just one crew takes all of that to balance out.

Yonkou => Shichibukai + Marine HQ

The only reason the WG even exists is because the Yonkou aren't united. Whitebeard is the strongest man in the world, he's worth 2-3 Shichibukai/Admirals himself. His division leaders are all as strong as Shichibukai or admirals (certainly Ace is, and Marco is even higher ranked than him). And then he's got a veritable army of his own. If a guy with a 98 million bounty is a crappy rookie messenger, how many guys with bounties over 200 million do you think there are on his crew?

Jdanzi

@Phil:

lmao, no. Do you not get it? Whitebeard's crew is singlehandedly attacking Marine HQ, he's going up against the entire Shichibukai and Marine HQ (3 + 1 Admirals, a bunch of vice admirals), and only a handful of people seem to have any idea that the WG side is going to win (and even then, it's mainly because of Blackbeard). That speaks volumes. Just one crew takes all of that to balance out.

Yonkou => Shichibukai + Marine HQ

The only reason the WG even exists is because the Yonkou aren't united. Whitebeard is the strongest man in the world, he's worth 2-3 Shichibukai/Admirals himself. His division leaders are all as strong as Shichibukai or admirals (certainly Ace is, and Marco is even higher ranked than him). And then he's got a veritable army of his own. If a guy with a 98 million bounty is a crappy rookie messenger, how many guys with bounties over 200 million do you think there are on his crew?

You're getting a little confused:

1. Shichubkai and Admirals are not on the same level - whether bb/mihawk ect are is yet to be seen.

2. We have no evidence to suggest Ace is as strong as the admirals.

3. Oda never stated that the first division is the strongest, or they are ranked in that order. Although I will give you this point as its very likely this is the case.

4. The 100 million beri messenger was Rockstar, and he joined Shanks' crew not Whitebeard.

We know none of the bounties in Whitebeard's crew.

makerror

although Oda stated that Marine=Yonkou=Shichibukai…but I don't feel it right...in the
recent chapters we knew how messed up Marine HQ facing WB pirates alone. Even WG need
shichi + all strong marine to attend at Marineford/Mariejoa. The fact that yonkou
weren't united and they acted as they wanted in New World, just like Brennen said, why
WG didn't command all shichi(maybe plus 1 admiral with pacifistas??) to obliterate yonkou one by one?.
Also about Garp speech at W7 that Marine and Shichibukai exist to counterbalance these 4
emperors, it emphasize that Marine+Shichibukai=Yonkou. Even he stated that Marine couldn't handle both WB and Rayleigh(he is just one old man!!!) at the same time.

until Oda come up with good explanation about that part, I'll still hold on
Marine+Shichibukai=Yonkou.

Ninjabrownie

@Jdanzi:

2. We have no evidence to suggest Ace is as strong as the admirals.

Ace strongest/final attack vs BB was Flame Emperor. Aokiji froze the ocean over without breaking a sweat. They're pretty much opposed elements (fire vs ice) and from the looks of their abilities Aokiji would absolutely own Ace.

@makerror:

The fact that yonkou weren't united and they acted as they wanted in New World, just like Brennen said, why WG didn't command all shichi(maybe plus 1 admiral with pacifistas??) to obliterate yonkou one by one?

The Gorousei were irritated with Aokiji leaving HQ, they want the Admirals there.
Defending is easier than attacking.
Enemy territory vs fortified home base.
Poor to no information on enemy movements.
Risk of being flanked.
Getting the Shichibukai to work together like that is impossible.
Risk of being double-crossed.
Moria's ship is too big.
The outcome of a battle has to be so that the WG remain the authority that controls 170 countries.

Unfortunately the Marines are unaware that Oda gives characters insane power boosts when they fight to save/protect 'nakama'.

Jdanzi

@Ninjabrownie:

Ace strongest/final attack vs BB was Flame Emperor. Aokiji froze the ocean over without breaking a sweat. They're pretty much opposed elements (fire vs ice) and from the looks of their abilities Aokiji would absolutely own Ace.

You quoted me why?

Ninjabrownie

@Jdanzi:

You quoted me why?

Not in the sense of a rebuttal. Just pointing out that, as you said, there is no evidence Ace could hang with an Admiral. Actually it looks more like he's not in that league yet from what we've seen.

Jdanzi

kk, yeh, agreed.

Phoenix Zoan

Aokiji would be a bad match up for Ace. Since Fire is probably the natural elemental weakness to Ice. Aokiji logia attacks will most likely have no affect on Ace.

Ninjabrownie

@Phoenix:

Aokiji would be a bad match up for Ace. Since Fire is probably the natural elemental weakness to Ice. Aokiji logia attacks will most likely have no affect on Ace.

Disagree, they're more like natural enemies, with each being each other's weakness. The stronger/more experienced will win.

flandrian15

Rayleigh(he is just one old man!!!) at the same time

About this. . .
I think they weren't really talking about Rayleigh alone but also Rayleighs powerfull friends that were once in the pirate kings crew. Maybe the WG might be afraid the old gol d rogers members might all go and save Rayleigh when nescessary. He WAS the right hand man of the pirate king and if rayleigh can't continue his easy way of life then why not create some chaos. . .?

Phoenix Zoan

How would ice be fire's weakness?

wolfwood

Hmm in a knock em down drag em out brawl betwenn a glacier and a forest fire, who would win?

Honestly i have no idea but since Ace is such a pussy i'll bet on Aokiji.

Phoenix Zoan

Forest fire would win. Glacier are lazy fucks that don't move.

onemoment

Ace is fire, so logically he should have an advantage over Ao Kiji. Plus he's been established as a strong fighter despite what happened with Blackbeard. He's apparently on par with Jimbei.

Ao Kiji, on the other hand, seems to be an experienced and seasoned fighter, perhaps more then Ace. With that in mind, the whole elemental reasoning might not matter. Then again, it's possible to be too cold to melt. It depends on who has more of their element.

It's a toss up really.

boman

@Phoenix:

Aokiji would be a bad match up for Ace. Since Fire is probably the natural elemental weakness to Ice. Aokiji logia attacks will most likely have no affect on Ace.

Hmmm…. It can be also Ace Logia will no effect on Aokiji
Did you see XMen (The last stand), Ice man won over the Fireman. But that's only my opinion bro

Phoenix Zoan

Whoever has the elemental weakness would have a really unfair advantage. Since if it works like how it did with Enel Vs. Luffy. All of Enel logia attacks were negated. Then without your DF powers to rely on you'll have to fight a way to attack the logia as well. Ace didn't have that problem with Blackbeard since BB's Logia is unique and takes physical attacks. Luffy didn't have the logia hitting problem since being Rubber gave him the ability to attack Enel.

My money would be on Ace since logically fire melts ice. Now if Aokiji could find a way to attack him directly without his DF powers then he may have a chance of winning. Hence why experience would have to come into play at that point.

Originally Posted by Boman
Hmmm…. It can be also Ace Logia will no effect on Aokiji
Did you see XMen (The last stand), Ice man won over the Fireman. But that's only my opinion bro

OP isn't the X-men. OP has a different set of rule. If you have the elemental weakness advantage. All elemental attacks are negated (See Luffy vs. Enel).

As for X-men 3. Iceman cheated, he transformed into full body Iceman while Pyro didn't.

onemoment

A big problem with comparing Enel with Ao Kiji is, Enel is probably the only existing logia user who doesn't expect a counter to his fruit. Do you see Ao Kiji panicking over an elemental weakness? No, it'll be the same as Kizaru. Regardless of a weakness, he'll keep fighting. And with the revelation of haki, I wouldn't be surprised if these admirals have fought tough battles in the New World.

In hindsight, the idea that each logia would bow down to an element weakness isn't that creative. There's more to these fighters are more then the sum of their abilities. The type of person they are makes a difference.

Enel is a perfect example. He's a man with a great logia and a mediocre personal strength. Remember Luffy saying he Enel wouldn't be that strong on the blue sea. Remember Ace fighting Blackbeard after he learned about the darkness fruit. Enel wouldn't stand a chance with these guys around. What do you think would happen if Enel met Rayleigh?

Phoenix Zoan

Rayleigh is the Pirate King's Right hand man. Of course Enel would most likely eventually lose to him. Hell Kizaru as well. Shit, Rayleigh even said that he was rusty when he fought Kizaru. Kizaru even had a surprised remark where he said something like You're holding off a Marine Admiral yet you still want more.

As for Enel being weak. Oda said in a SBS if he was a pirate on the Blue Sea his bounty would be 500 million beri. Which would be the highest bounty known bounty in the series. And uh Enel didn't bow down to his elemental weakness. Yeah he face faulted at first since up until that point he was essentially a untouchable god at Skypiea but then after that. He started to attack with his staff and made it into a trident to attack Luffy. Then Luffy had a hard time hitting him since he had mantra. If Luffy didn't have the elemental advantage he would've got raped by Enel.

Judgement's Shadow

Perhaps Enel would seem underwhelming compared to some of the more upstanding people of the new world, but part of his power is basically the overwhelming power of the fruit itself.
For example, anyone without a logia (Blackbeard excluded) could get instantly defeated by a single attack, and I have seen no evidence that supports the theory that Haki can stop the power of the devil fruit, only to solidify the body of the user back to it's normal state.

Basically, my guess is that Enel would certainly be top tier even in the new World. Well, if he started taking fights seriously…:happy:

ultimec1a

@Judgement's:

Perhaps Enel would seem underwhelming compared to some of the more upstanding people of the new world, but part of his power is basically the overwhelming power of the fruit itself.
For example, anyone without a logia (Blackbeard excluded) could get instantly defeated by a single attack, and I have seen no evidence that supports the theory that Haki can stop the power of the devil fruit, only to solidify the body of the user back to it's normal state.

Basically, my guess is that Enel would certainly be top tier even in the new World. Well, if he started taking fights seriously…:happy:

I agree completely.