@Croy: I didn't read through this to check for errors or inconsistency, so…yeah. Haha. This is getting long. Hiding it...just cuz.
[hide]@Croy:
This is what I'm talking about for flashbacks Brennen. There is no evidence to say it will happen but to say that she has already had a flashback even under the circumstances they ended up in is not a good enough argument.
Look, don't get me wrong, I think you have great ideas in here and compelling arguments, but we have to go to the root of things real quick. Thousand Sunny said that he thought it was silly that people think Jinbei has a better chance of joining than Hancock; discussion ensued. I was merely pointing out that Jinbei has a decent amount of information that could easily point to him joining – or at least being a temp ally like Paulie or Waipa -- for the next good amount of time, and that as far as we know right now Hancock's time is more or less over. Therefore it isn't "silly". I agree that she could still be brought back and I like her overall design and character, but there is a decent pile of issues with her joining that would have to be solved before she COULD join; some that cannot be fixed and would have to be ignored or avoided. Combine all those reasons with her flashback that didn't even revolve around her and was for informative purposes, and I don't really see her having a successful second flashback that would win over the audience's sympathy. So "good enough argument" shouldn't even be a part of this. It isn't even an argument. It is fact that her little flashback served other purposes than making us feel for her, and there is no reason to believe that her irrelevant flashback means anything beyond that. I never said, "she already had a flashback and it wasn't good enough, therefore she doesn't join."
@Croy:
People in One Piece with dreadful past no matter how quaint it may be always get vindication in some way. The very act of bringing up the way Oda did shows it will be solved one way or another. What happens from there is anyone's guess.
Still doesn't change the fact that the purpose of her "flashback" was to explain something else. Again, I am not saying this makes or breaks her. I am just saying it doesn't make her. So we can discard it as…anything, really. Her past and fears will get vindication, yes, but that ball was rolling before her, and we have other people like Jinbei and Camie who are subject to those fears, if not more so because they are alone in the world (more or less) and are judged by appearance.
@Croy:
Do you honestly think the Marines are going to be caring about a nation like that immediately after this all over? If Hancock leaves, the immediate threat of that island vanishes, does it mean they will always be safe? No but they won't be bombarded the minute this war ends and her title is revoked. In the meantime the Marines have MUCH bigger things to worry about, such as the chaos that will envelope the oceans after Whitebeard is gone.
So, you are saying that Hancock can join the crew because Amazon Lily will be safe for a little while, but will eventually be attacked for being a nation of Pirates…? That would be very uncharacteristic of Oda. Leaving us to believe that at any time, Amazon Lily will get attacked or imprisoned off-screen.
@Croy:
Also If pirate havens like that are in so much danger, than why haven't places like Jaya been buster called to the ends of time? Or invaded to the point no pirate could call it home? Simple they don't have enough forces or they have bigger targets to worry about. The only reason the Marines had so much attention on that nation in the first place is because of whatever Hancock did on her first campaign.
That's…your view. I think, sticking true to the story, the reason the Marine's had attention on Hancock was because of her first campaign. The difference between Jaya and Amazon Lily is that Amazon Lily is an ENTIRE NATION of pirates. In short, Amazon Lily is a giant sitting wanted pirate crew base. Think about it. Luffy has a bounty. Do the Marines seek to capture him? Yes. Is everyone at Jaya a pirate? No. Do the Marines have the time and resources to have Marines stationed there at all times in case a pirate comes? No. Does Amazon Lily move? No. Is it an entire nation of pirates? Yes. Is anyone not a pirate? Technically, no. Would the Marines take down a pirate crew if they knew their location? Yes, as long as they have the resources. Would the Marines attack Amazon Lily were it not for Hancock? By all that logic, yes.
@Croy:
No I'm not one of "those" people. But I do believe firmly by the end of this arc that Hancock will be blamed for bringing Luffy into Impel Down.
Which falls under "or something", so you are one of "those" people. Don't worry, I do not mean it in an insulting way, I am just grouping you with other people who think that Hancock will get blamed for this. I personally don't see it happening. I don't see why it would happen, and I don't see why Oda would make it happen. Like I said, if Oda does it, he has to explain how Amazon Lily will be safe thereafter.
@Croy:
Garp has already brought the topic up, they now know Kuma did not finish off him or the other strawhats.
All he said was that he doesn't trust any of the Shichibukai. What does that have to do with Hancock specifically? Or Hancock and Luffy, for that matter?
@Croy:
And your analysis to me is FAR too shallow on her feelings for Luffy. She is still helping Luffy, she believes that he now loves her, Luffy said he has a debt to pay her, wonder what she will want from him? The very fact that she is still screwing with the Warden, endangering herself of getting exposed to help Luffy shows that until he gets out she will do ANYTHING to help him. Like I said your basing everything on her as a matter of convenience and just flat out ignoring everything else almost in hopes that she will just vanish after this arc is done.
Now you are assuming I don't like Hancock, which is not true. You are saying I am ignoring everything else? Ignoring what, exactly? On the contrary, aren't you ignoring something? "Endangering herself of getting exposed to help Luffy" how? The way she is acting with Magellan is EXAAACTLY the same way she was acting with Momonga when they first met. She is ABSOLUTELY no different. Hancock said so herself that she cannot help Luffy further, and they then parted ways. I highly doubt she is going to hold Luffy to any debt, especially when her closing statement was that she is satisfied in life and can die happy. Case closed, I say.
@Croy:
I can't even think of a character like her that has been used for such a shallow reason in this series. There are a ton of different ways to approach this arc and he chose this one.
Frankly, there are tons of different ways to approach ANY arc. Luffy is ta'veren, so that means for the sake of this grand story strange coincidences happen, and more often than not they are in Luffy's favor. In this case, Luffy just so happened to have OHKO'd a Tenryuubito and made the headlines, just so happened to land on an island where a Shichibukai who hates the WG rules, just so happened to be immune to her love-love tactics, just so happened to be the right type of attitude to fit her liking and break down her barriers, just so happened to recognize the mark on her back, and just so happened to be his ticket into Impel Down. Sure Luffy used her, but how was Conis any different? At least Luffy is grateful for what she is doing. I think, if anything, people are letting her "Shichibukai" status inflame her importance to Luffy and the arc. She is a beautiful woman who gets what she wants, and Luffy ends up using her to get what he wants. It's irony.[/hide]