The Hatchets that Would Not Be Buried: USOPP TALK. (Spoiler Warning)

[Fanservice]

@Zephos:

1. The first word is all you needed to say.
Fun Fact: Robin was there too.

2. Indeed, why can't the Corleone family write strong complaint letters to people that don't pay them debts?

3. I'd love to see what compares to burnin down the World Governments flag in full view of an army of soldiers and an official. Or grabbing Robin away from CP9 using a smoke bomb and taking out Roogi prior to this. Or leading two giants on a rampage through a governments base.

4. Usopp knew he would lose. It wasn't really over the ship.

5. NO.

6. But its not.

1. What does Robin have to do with that?

2. For #1 and 2, I don't get you. I suggest you get straight to the point and quit using Godfather analogies.

3. Zulen posted stuff already and I acknowledged.

4. Point taken.

5 - 6. Wasn't Luffy's (alone) either. It was given to Luffy, Nami, Zoro and him, but I was assuming that since it was Usopp who knew Kaya longer he'd have more attachment to the ship.

[Admiral Wolfpox]

@Junkman:

hmm? i'm being quite serious.

why would usopp now win? its not in his character to win in that kind of circumstance. usopp always will win when the chips are down and everything is against him. much like all the characters. and every shonen jump guy.

and you may say but junkman, my liege, what about character developement, ussop has grown so much? how so?

usopp is a "coward?" never been a coward, he's always faced his fears since we met him. he just shows us his cowardence more openly.

i mean hell none of the characters have really changed that much. zoro still wants to be the best swordsman, sanji can't get over his love of women, and chopper is still well chopper.

they all changed when we first met them when they agreeded to join the crew offically. after that its been very miniscule increments.

and why not? moonlighting got old when the people got together. spiderman got lame when he became un poor and got the hot girl as a wife.

usopp will always lose first win sometimes. untill the end.

OK, I respect your view.

For myself, I think Oda is using the ships to reflect Usopp's character development, so I think they will both become extremely kick-ass when it counts, with new style and potential. Watch out for both of them! As for this thread, it's really something that should wait until the end of the next arc.

[Malintex_Terek]

@Junkman:

chopper is still well chopper.

Not exactly. Chopper fought bravely in Drum since his battle was personal and he had been training for just such a return by Wapol; in Arabasta, he basically did what he was told and was lucky enough to not get hurt too badly, sort of like jumping in the middle of a hornet's nest and only getting midly stung.

Chopper's development came in Skypiea where he fought Gedatsu and Shura, which was a parallel to Chuu and Kuro for Usopp; past that, in Enies Lobby, Chopper went all out against Kumadori and Fukuro without "reality checking" himself. His final moment before going Monster was in defiance of Kumadori to the bitter end.

Usopp was like that until Enies Lobby until he started acting like a major coward again, which only happened once before briefly during the Mr.4/MerryChristmas fight; in this case, Usopp's retarded acting lasted from when he recruited Oimo/Kaashi to the most recent chapter.

That is why people are pissed at Usopp. If he kept growing slowly that's fine, but to curl up into a fetal position and play princess is just trashy.

@Junkman:

usopp will always lose first win sometimes. untill the end.

I disagree on this note as well; Oda made Usopp-Luffy parallels for a reason, from the simmilar dreams, builds, and personalities right down to a divisible ______. If Usopp's ultimate goal falls flat due to his cowardice, it just goes to show that one needs to be a beast to win at life.

The whole point of Usopp's development is to illustrate that even a person from "our" world, that is, an "everyman" can still butt heads equally with monsters provided he gets the skills to do so.

[onemoment]

Usopp's kind of like Kuwabara from Yuyu Hakusho…so if you've never seen that stops reading...

He's the guy who doesn't get the most glory, but he still makes a difference. In the Dark Tournament Saga, he mostly lost matches, but somewhere in the middle he wins a fight that, without it, the entire group would be screwed.

More specifically, that's what Usopp was like in Enies Lobby, the difference maker. No gloryhogging, just results.However, I wouldn't compare him so much to Kuwabara overall, just for this arc. Overall he's like Rock Lee.

Without each SHs efforts in Enies Lobby, the mission would have been lost. They are like organs in a body, not all so important on their own but without each one the body couldn't function. Usopp would be...well since this is shounen...the brain--not often used by every now and then there's a spark.

Let's just hope things go better for Usopp then Kuwabara did.

Usopp's the man...the man who has two topics on him. Really, why do we need another topic for this?

[FireFistAce 0]

Kuwabara in the Dark Tournament can't be compared to Usopp. Kuwabara owned Elder Toguro easily.

[onemoment]

@Fire Fist:

Kuwabara in the Dark Tournament can't be compared to Usopp. Kuwabara owned Elder Toguro easily.

Yeah…and then Toguro got up and said he faked his loss earlier. That's the thing with Kuwabara, all his victories get smeared somehow. On the other hand, it's still technically a win. Kind of like throwing a guy into a pit of lava, regardless of the damn White Tiger getting back up. I mean, is getting up after getting your ass kicked really a win, if the guy who did it goes unharmed?

But what I'm comparing to Kuwabara is in the sense that Usopp didn't get glory like beating a CP9, but his efforts in Enies Lobby made a difference regardless. But it only applies in Enes Lobby, since Usopp has had 2 clear victories in other arcs.

And speaking of Usopp again, a long time ago I said how this terrible arc of him could be a turning point for good things. To condense it, with Franky on board Usopp can waste no time repairing on the ship and focus on sniping.

[FireFistAce 0]

I can see Usopp and Franky developing a huge bond, actually. Both are grease monkeys / gearheads in a sense… can you imagine Usopp suggesting that Franky slap some dials in himself? Only one that wouldn't be useful is the Milky dial... Though I still believe that's gonna be used to beat Smoker...

Plus, imagine one of Franky's eyes becoming a scope, and his arm turning into a sniper rifle? Usopp and Franky would have a field day.

[Fanservice]

Kuwabara/Usopp parallel is…well...a bad comparison I was a fan of Yuyu...and even before, Kuwabara went toe-to-toe against Yusuke and always lost, but he was no coward and could usually hold his own against other enemies (if not for his stupidity/bragging). Kuwabara displayed fighting prowess and his clumsiness and trashtalking was the thing that made him funny. In terms of fighting, he was never a burden to Yusuke and the others. The other people also respected him when he was uber pissed off. Yusuke's power level was only one step ahead of him right until the Demon world saga.

Let's just say that Oda's portrayal of the "sniper" position with regard to Usopp seems bad to me. It's like, his cowardice/comic relief purposes overshadow his position as the crew's sniper.

There! I finally managed to put my feelings well in written format.

This statement by Terek:

Usopp was like that until Enies Lobby until he started acting like a major coward again, which only happened once before briefly during the Mr.4/MerryChristmas fight; in this case, Usopp's retarded acting lasted from when he recruited Oimo/Kaashi to the most recent chapter. That is why people are pissed at Usopp. If he kept growing slowly that's fine, but to curl up into a fetal position and play princess is just trashy. Also reflect my feelings regarding that matter.

[Admiral Wolfpox]

Then stop thinking about his "role" and start thinking of him as a person, who doesn't necessarily fit your narrow guidelines for how a sniper ought to act.

[Fanservice]

As a person? You mean, you want to subject One Piece to more scrutiny from me by overanalyzing how they should act as a real human being?

When he beat Chu, it wasn't very sniper-ish to me. His victory against #4 was a good description on how his fighting style should be, IMO.

[Admiral Wolfpox]

I want you to think of the reason Oda would do what he's doing, instead of imposing your own standards. He has a vision and a reason for why Usopp does what he does. He doesn't do things carelessly with his characters.

[FireFistAce 0]

Every Manga-ka makes mistakes.

Do I need to remind you of Pell, who was supposed to have sacrificed himself for the future of Alabasta and somehow ends up surviving the equivalent of a H-Bomb?

[Fanservice]

@Admiral:

1. I want you to think of the reason Oda would do what he's doing, instead of imposing your own standards. He has a vision and a reason for why Usopp does what he does.

2. He doesn't do things carelessly with his characters.

1. See, that's the problem. Of course, no matter how I try to "read between" the lines, there are areas where I would view the comic in my own standards. It's open to anyone's interpretation, really. I'm not saying I'm right or wrong, I'm just pointing out my views.

2. Depends on how you view it. One Piece has plot holes too, you know?

[Admiral Wolfpox]

Hmmmmmm. Well, I've tried to see your points, but I just don't see anything to be upset about or disappointed in. I liked Usopp the way he was, and now that SogeKing is kicking ass, that's just icing on the cake.

[RuNa]

@Fire:

The reason Usopp is underdeveloped in relation to the other characters is because his beliefs and dreams are solely based on his own conviction. Usopp wants to be a "brave warrior of the sea", but he has nothing motivating him to do so other than the fact that his father is a pirate. Everything else that drives him is his own self motivation.

Every other strawhat has a tragic past, or at least a key figure in their past and present that drives them to move forward. Luffy has Shanks to motivate him and Gol D. Roger from the past. Nami has Nojiko and Gen-san and had Belle-Mere. Chopper had Hiruluk and has Kureha. Sanji has Zeff and the legend of All Blue to drive him. Zoro has Mihawk and had Kuina. Robin has Kuzan (sort of) and Luffy and Had Saulo and Olivia and Clover. Franky has his family and Iceburg and had Tom. Usopp has no one to drive him like the other Strawhats do. That's the reason that he's not nearly on the level that any of the other Strawhats are.

As for the Luffy vs. Usopp fight, Usopp KNEW that the ship was junk. That wasn't the point of the fight. The point of the fight was that Usopp (in his own mind) felt that no one took him seriously enough. Even when they first met back in Syrup Village, remember that Usopp thought that Luffy, Nami and Zoro were making fun of him? Usopp is a paranoid person whose feelings are easily hurt. The whole reason he tried to fight with Luffy was to try and "look cool" in front of the crew. That's why Nami was in tears and could hardly bear to watch. She respected Usopp, and knew that Luffy would be forced to "put him down". Luffy HAD to end the fight because Usopp was actually serious, and as much as Luffy didn't want to hurt his nakama, he HAD to.

The tragic pasts of each Strawhat drive them forward. Or in Luffy's case, the dedication of Shanks drives him forward. But Usopp has no role model other than his father, who he's never met, and abandoned him and his mother. The giants on Elbaf, maybe, but that's a generalization and not a single role model.

Usopp will become something, he just needs either a better dream or someone to look up to for that dream. Maybe the King of Elbaf?

That has got to be THE BEST post you ever made. It makes up for your hundreds of speculation topics that started to annoy me XD;

[Zephos]

1. What does Robin have to do with that?

You seem to suggest because Spandam was part of the scene it makes it Ok to be goofy. Robin was every bit a part of the scene and assuredly NOT goofy.

2. For #1 and 2, I don't get you. I suggest you get straight to the point and quit using Godfather analogies.

The wavy line between gag and serious is one the most basic parts of One Piece.

5 - 6. Wasn't Luffy's (alone) either. It was given to Luffy, Nami, Zoro and him, but I was assuming that since it was Usopp who knew Kaya longer he'd have more attachment to the ship.

No. It was given to Luffy, Nami, and Zoro. After they're already on board and about to sail Usopp comes by to say goodbye and go on his own adventure, than Luffy and Zoro say "get on the boat".
Remember?

[Aldrich]

@Fanservice:

Let's just wait for Aldrich and see if he has some axe to grind too before closing this thread.

Dude… I agree with everything you said, problem is me and Terek already adressed the problem something like 300 times already only to have the same old replies about Usopp being teh awesomest character ever created and how he's the perfect everyman character bravo Oda sama and other nonsense.

I think we've reached the point where Oda could draw Usopp drowning in an inflatable kiddie pool filled with pig's shit while Sanji finds All Blue, Robin reads the Rio Poneglyph and Zoro beats Mihawk you'd still have fans thinking Usopp is the best thing since dental floss.

They love him, we don't, let's move on, he'll still be here until the end anyway so we should get accustomed to his antics.

[Zephos]

I really don't give a fuck about Usopp.
My points are unbiased.

[Aldrich]

I wasn't especially talking about you, though I don't agree at all with your "Usopp is the everyman" point.

[Junkman]

guys you are thinking of one piece like people and not a comic book.

usopp will always remain a coward. why? because when he gets over that fear it makes his courage that much bolder.

as said before, i personally don't see that much change in chopper or any of the other charcters since they joined the crew.

chopper always seems to have doubts about his worth as a crew member and sees to prove himself. i think this will forever continue till the end.

usopp will forever continue to be a coward and come through when he needs to. till the end.

y'know when you'll get your badass usopp? the end of one piece, because THAT'S THE PAYOFF.

[igalsfy]

i'll argue on the whole usopp case that the series is far from being over and usopp will shine more than ever. oda don't know how to deal with usopp? well, read other shonen jump series and you'll get the real sense of the expression you're using.

[Zephos]

@Junkman:

guys you are thinking of one piece like people and not a comic book.

usopp will always remain a coward. why? because when he gets over that fear it makes his courage that much bolder.

as said before, i personally don't see that much change in chopper or any of the other charcters since they joined the crew.

chopper always seems to have doubts about his worth as a crew member and sees to prove himself. i think this will forever continue till the end.

usopp will forever continue to be a coward and come through when he needs to. till the end.

y'know when you'll get your badass usopp? the end of one piece, because THAT'S THE PAYOFF.

Thats really the gist, its a loooooong series. Usopp's goal is being a brave warrior. Ergo it should no sooner happend than Luffy finding the One Piece.

[wiseman7687]

yayyy to Junkman

Seriously, this is a manga. Usopp is one character in the series. Some people will hate him and some people will love him. So ppl should just let Usopp be the ridiculous character that he is

…. Franky Blows lol ;)

[wiseman7687]

OH btw. The REASON that Usopp didnt burn down Merry was cuz he was disguised as SogeKing Still. Luffy thinks Usopp isnt on the ship.HOWEVER he does realize it is Usopp's ship.

Yeah Fanservice, i dont like Usopp that much either but thats the honest truth. I am positive that Luffy would've let Usopp do the proper farewell if he knew that Sogeking was Usopp.

[Cap'n Carter]

@Aldrich:

I think we've reached the point where Oda could draw Usopp drowning in an inflatable kiddie pool filled with pig's shit while Sanji finds All Blue, Robin reads the Rio Poneglyph and Zoro beats Mihawk you'd still have fans thinking Usopp is the best thing since dental floss.

That is honestly the best analogy I've seen in a long time.

[onemoment]

Eh, as long as the reunion resolves thing a little, it will be fine.

Thats really the gist, its a loooooong series. Usopp's goal is being a brave warrior. Ergo it should no sooner happend than Luffy finding the One Piece.

Er…we need a little something in between ya know. Like the Mr.4 fight, he was cowardly up until Miss MerryChristmas insulted Luffy, then he started getting serious.

[Junkman]

@onemoment:

Eh, as long as the reunion resolves thing a little, it will be fine.

Er…we need a little something in between ya know. Like the Mr.4 fight, he was cowardly up until Miss MerryChristmas insulted Luffy, then he started getting serious.

HE DECLARED WAR ON THE WAR GOVERMENT WITHOUT HESITATION!

GWAR! WHAT MORE DO YOU PUNY HOO-MANS NEED!

[onemoment]

@Junkman:

HE DECLARED WAR ON THE WAR GOVERMENT WITHOUT HESITATION!

GWAR! WHAT MORE DO YOU PUNY HOO-MANS NEED!

Oh, I was only talking about until the end of the series. You know, if Usopp did nothing until then it would suck.

[Zephos]

@onemoment:

Eh, as long as the reunion resolves thing a little, it will be fine.

Er…we need a little something in between ya know. Like the Mr.4 fight, he was cowardly up until Miss MerryChristmas insulted Luffy, then he started getting serious.

sigh and once more were back to debating the merit of Usopp's Enies Lobby actions.
Man, this is boring.

[Zulen]

@Aldrich:

Dude… I agree with everything you said, problem is me and Terek already adressed the problem something like 300 times already only to have the same old replies about Usopp being teh awesomest character ever created and how he's the perfect everyman character bravo Oda sama and other nonsense.

I think we've reached the point where Oda could draw Usopp drowning in an inflatable kiddie pool filled with pig's shit while Sanji finds All Blue, Robin reads the Rio Poneglyph and Zoro beats Mihawk you'd still have fans thinking Usopp is the best thing since dental floss.

They love him, we don't, let's move on, he'll still be here until the end anyway so we should get accustomed to his antics.

Actually, the way I see it, many Usopp fans don't think he's the greatest thing ever. He's possibly my favorite character, and that's just because he is incredibly fun to watch throughout this series. He seems to be the only Straw Hat with many physical and mental weaknesses, but sometimes, he kicks massive amounts of ass.

Usopp is not the greatest thing since dental floss. I think Luffy is the greatest thing. But that's the point. The thing about Usopp is that he cannot find All Blue. He cannot read the Rio Poneglyph. He sure as hell cannot defeat Mihawk. And that's why people love to keep an extra eye on him.

[Gizmo]

Another post on Usopp, even though we have millions of these I'll post this one anyways, without sarcasm that this sentence holds.

Usopp in the 435 chapter is too stubborn and prideful. He really doesn't know what being a Brave Warrior of the Sea is, does he? He must believe that it means that he cant be wrong and must always be fearless like Zoro and Luffy.

Usopp is the Naruto character of One Piece, without the tragic backstory. He talks to much and doesn't do as much, way to hard on himself and life around him, and sometimes is a great cheerleader like Naruto and Sakura are.

Both of these combined plus the fact that he acts like a youngin together makes Usopp.

Usopp would be a lot better if he wasn't so hard on himself. He doesn't understand the meaning of experience. He sees superhumans around him all the time and sees them go through unbelieveable growth coughnamicough.
He like a child, wants everything to be good for him right then and now. He must be even more harder on himself since he believes he can fight(when he took out Chuu and 4/merry christmas). Therefore whenever he gets nervous or frightened he takes it way too hard on himself and loses all confidence. He wants to be like Zoro and Luffy, but he can't. Oda made sure of this. He can probably still kick some a$$ though. I mean if Nami can, so can Usopp even though Kalipha's fight was a joke but that's a different argument

The whole Merry thing is over, but the fact is that Usopp will probably not admit he's wrong.
IF HE ADMITS THAT HE'S WRONG THAT'S PROBABLY MORE DEVELOPMENT FOR HIM THAN ANYTHING ELSE THIS CHAPTER. Usopp's so called pride would get in the way usually. Him wanting to become "A brave warrior of the sea" probably would make him think that he shouldn't and that its pretty demaning. If he realizes that it's not that bad, he'll get better.

Sadly he'll use Sogeking as an alabi for awhile and think that hiding his face and letting Sogeking be real heroic will help him be a brave warrior, sadly. Oh well, slow and steady wins the race.

ALSO, for those that are actually thinking that Oda is wasting Usopp's character, he's building up Usopp's goal like everybody elses, little by little.

[Zulen]

@ultimateclima:

Another post on Usopp, even though we have millions of these I'll post this one anyways, without sarcasm that this sentence holds.

Usopp in the 435 chapter is too stubborn and prideful. He really doesn't know what being a Brave Warrior of the Sea is, does he? He must believe that it means that he cant be wrong and must always be fearless like Zoro and Luffy.

Usopp is the Naruto character of One Piece, without the tragic backstory. He talks to much and doesn't do as much, way to hard on himself and life around him, and sometimes is a great cheerleader like Naruto and Sakura are.

Both of these combined plus the fact that he acts like a youngin together makes Usopp.

Usopp would be a lot better if he wasn't so hard on himself. He doesn't understand the meaning of experience. He sees superhumans around him all the time and sees them go through unbelieveable growth coughnamicough.
He like a child, wants everything to be good for him right then and now. He must be even more harder on himself since he believes he can fight(when he took out Chuu and 4/merry christmas). Therefore whenever he gets nervous or frightened he takes it way too hard on himself and loses all confidence. He wants to be like Zoro and Luffy, but he can't. Oda made sure of this. He can probably still kick some a$$ though. I mean if Nami can, so can Usopp even though Kalipha's fight was a joke but that's a different argument

The whole Merry thing is over, but the fact is that Usopp will probably not admit he's wrong.
IF HE ADMITS THAT HE'S WRONG THAT'S PROBABLY MORE DEVELOPMENT FOR HIM THAN ANYTHING ELSE THIS CHAPTER. Usopp's so called pride would get in the way usually. Him wanting to become "A brave warrior of the sea" probably would make him think that he shouldn't and that its pretty demaning. If he realizes that it's not that bad, he'll get better.

Sadly he'll use Sogeking as an alabi for awhile and think that hiding his face and letting Sogeking be real heroic will help him be a brave warrior, sadly. Oh well, slow and steady wins the race.

ALSO, for those that are actually thinking that Oda is wasting Usopp's character, he's building up Usopp's goal like everybody elses, little by little.

Usopp is very paranoid. He surrounds himself with superiors every day. After the fight with Aokiji, Usopp seriously started considering his place in the crew. Did he belong with the crew? Was he as strong as everyone else? Hell no; anyone would agree.

When Usopp turned into Sogeking, not only was that a way to conceal himself from the World Government and Luffy, but it was also a way for him to face danger in a different way. When he turned into Sogeking, he suddenly had a backstory. He was the Sharphooting King, and he was super human.

This gave him confidence in himself, and it showed especially during Water 7 and Enies Lobby. He has changed so much in just the last 50 episodes. He does not complain about the danger. He shows cowardice at times, yes, but it never stops him or causes him to hesitate beyond abnormal levels.

So anyway, that's the deal with his Sogeking transformation.

[Gizmo]

1. So Usopp is going to become brave by hiding behind a mask and give him self confidence? I'm not happy with that, but its for the best

However, he has to realize eventually that if he keeps this up, he can never turn back. I don't want him to keep Sogeking for too long, cause soon he'll end up like a superhero and Usopp should be the one getting the glory, not Sogeking.
That's so usopp, lying to make himself be better.

[ONEinchPUNCH]

He'll probably take it off soon or if he doesn't he may use it as a superhero disguise. If that does happen i think it will break during a fight and he''ll reveal himself and end up finding the courage to fight as himself.

[CosmicDebris]

@ultimateclima:

The whole Merry thing is over, but the fact is that Usopp will probably not admit he's wrong.
IF HE ADMITS THAT HE'S WRONG THAT'S PROBABLY MORE DEVELOPMENT FOR HIM THAN ANYTHING ELSE THIS CHAPTER.

I agree with you there, and I really do hope that he does let go of his pride just this once at least and tell Luffy the truth. Not necessarily about Sogeking, just the reasons why he left, that he was wrong about what he said about Luffy, and that he wants a second chance…SOMETHING along those lines. But...I don't know what Oda has in mind.
It seems to me that, with that little panel of Usopp trying to think of as many excuses as possible, that in the end, it would make sense that honesty really would be the best policy. Maybe he'll start off trying to act cool but then break down in the end.

[Fanservice]

@ultimateclima:

Usopp is the Naruto character of One Piece, without the tragic backstory. He talks to much and doesn't do as much, way to hard on himself and life around him, and sometimes is a great cheerleader like Naruto and Sakura are.

Sorry, I can't help but comment on this. I'm a Naruto-hater (albeit, it only stems out of me thinking that Naruto kinda ripped HxH off and that I hate ninjas)….please don't compare Usopp with Narutard. LOL...just kidding.

Naruto/Usopp are way different. IMO. Naruto has insane power in him, but he wants to develop something w/o relying on his Demon Fox. Usopp only has his own skill to rely on to. There's a huge difference IMO.

Also, Naruto is brave, whereas Usopp...see the big difference?

I will post more stuff regarding Usopp once my thoughts are organized. Work is killing me. LOL. :D

[Gizmo]

@Fanservice:

Sorry, I can't help but comment on this. I'm a Naruto-hater (albeit, it only stems out of me thinking that Naruto kinda ripped HxH off and that I hate ninjas)….please don't compare Usopp with Narutard. LOL...just kidding.

Naruto/Usopp are way different. IMO. Naruto has insane power in him, but he wants to develop something w/o relying on his Demon Fox. Usopp only has his own skill to rely on to. There's a huge difference IMO.

Also, Naruto is brave, whereas Usopp...see the big difference?

I will post more stuff regarding Usopp once my thoughts are organized. Work is killing me. LOL. :D

Even though naruto is easy to make fun of, naruto isnt that bad. I enjoy it. just like comparing it to that because thats the closest thing i could compare it too.

1. Even if Naruto has insane power, Usopp has uber accuracy and craftiness. The nine tail fox is trying not to be used as much though. I also meant Naruto in general, not just Uzumaki. Very contradictory with I like naruto, but the point is clear. I like naruto but i think it could be better.

2.Usopp isn't brave. I'll agree with you on that. That's where his character development will grow. Just because he isn't Naruto, he has great potential and with Oda writing him it wont go to waste.

[ero_seinen]

I actually think that luffy will say "NO" when usopp will ask him to return, and then will add "I want SOGEKING to be my nakama, right usopp?" Then Usopp will make a crying promess like zoro's and say "From now on I'll become a great warrior of the sea".

[Junkman]

okay this has gone on too long.

y'know what's going to happen to usopp?

HE'S GONNA DIE A COWARD.

there are you happy? look what you made oda do.

[CosmicDebris]

Junkman, did you actually expect this topic to die so easily? XD It'll probably keep living long after One Piece is through.

[Malintex_Terek]

@Zephos:

Thats really the gist, its a loooooong series. Usopp's goal is being a brave warrior. Ergo it should no sooner happend than Luffy finding the One Piece.

Most likely, but Usopp becoming a great warrior would be pretty banal/lame if he sort of got his fame on Luffy's Pirate King tailcoats and didn't earn it himself. This is why people are making a big stint about Enies Lobby; Usopp was supposed to take the next step in his progression to becoming a Great Warrior, and yet all he did this arc was either curl up into a fetal position or smear blood across the pavement and on the walls of the Tower of Justice Administration.

In comparison to Usopp's "development" over all other arcs, what he did in this chapter is pathetic. To top that, he got much higher bounty than Nami simply for scratching his arse, whereas Nami actually managed to beat a CP9 member, even if it was in the most retarded fight of the whole manga. Such cheapens his role in the arc significantly; if he's supposed to be on the road to being a great warrior, he has yet to legitimately earned a single berry of his bounty.

I suppose Oda foresaw this and left the subject of Usopp's development open; Sogeking got the thirty million berry, not Usopp. As such, there's still a whole lot of room for Usopp to improve. Heck, he might end up with the highest starting bounty of the whole Straw Hat crew, which would be pretty kick-arse provided he earned it (like in a duel against Van Auger).

However, that still doesn't invalidate that over a hundred chapters of manga were devoted to an "Usopp" arc that lacked development, and frankly waiting for Usopp to "shine" and never actually doing so is really fudging annoying.

[onemoment]

@Malintex_Terek:

Most likely, but Usopp becoming a great warrior would be pretty banal/lame if he sort of got his fame on Luffy's Pirate King tailcoats and didn't earn it himself. This is why people are making a big stint about Enies Lobby; Usopp was supposed to take the next step in his progression to becoming a Great Warrior, and yet all he did this arc was either curl up into a fetal position or smear blood across the pavement and on the walls of the Tower of Justice Administration.

In comparison to Usopp's "development" over all other arcs, what he did in this chapter is pathetic. To top that, he got much higher bounty than Nami simply for scratching his arse, whereas Nami actually managed to beat a CP9 member, even if it was in the most retarded fight of the whole manga. Such cheapens his role in the arc significantly; if he's supposed to be on the road to being a great warrior, he has yet to legitimately earned a single berry of his bounty.

I suppose Oda foresaw this and left the subject of Usopp's development open; Sogeking got the thirty million berry, not Usopp. As such, there's still a whole lot of room for Usopp to improve. Heck, he might end up with the highest starting bounty of the whole Straw Hat crew, which would be pretty kick-arse provided he earned it (like in a duel against Van Auger).

However, that still doesn't invalidate that over a hundred chapters of manga were devoted to an "Usopp" arc that lacked development, and frankly waiting for Usopp to "shine" and never actually doing so is really fudging annoying.

Actually, the bounty is fitting if you look at it like this. Things like burning a flag and beating Spandam are things that anyone can do, but they are also things that cause a lot of enmity in the world government. In a one on one fight, it'd be a lot easier to beat the President then a marine (real life), but it's the first one that will make the papers. So yeah, Calipha was "just an assassin," while Spandam was a political figure, and that flag was a declaration of war. I mean, in this day and age it would take a lot of balls to burn a your nations flag in public.

Also, Usopp did get development, just not cool development. He got the most freakin' development in the arc–for whatever that word means anymore.

[Fanservice]

@onemoment:

Also, Usopp did get development, just not likeable development.

"Also, Usopp did get a miniscule development. Just not likeable development."

Fixed it for you. :D

Will post later to justify the "miniscule" development remark and to disprove a little "BUT ZORO AND SANJI ARE THE SAME OLD BLAND CHARACTERS TOO IF YOU THINK ABOUT IT LOL!" arguments.

[CosmicDebris]

@ Terek:
Aw man, here we go again back to the same old argument that boils down to "I had a certain expectation that I formed when this arc started, it didn't pan out the way I thought it should so I'm annoyed."

When I read a post like this I can't help but feel like you've constructed a whole alternate reality of how things happened based on collecting various opinions among your own, rather than looking at the actual story itself.

[onemoment]

@Fanservice:

"Also, Usopp did get development. Just not likeable development."

Fixed it for you. :D

Will post later to justify the "miniscule" development remark and to disprove a little "BUT ZORO AND SANJI ARE THE SAME OLD BLAND CHARACTERS TOO IF YOU THINK ABOUT IT LOL!" arguments.

No, I'll post about what an ass your being. What is this, 4chan? Gamefaqs? Did I not mean what I said?

Usopp got a lot of screentime, how didn't he get a lot of development? Who got more then him in that arc? Who…San...Santori? He's in a coma!

@CosmicDebris:

Aw man, here we go again back to the same old argument that boils down to "I had a certain expectation that I formed when this arc started, it didn't pan out the way I thought it should so I'm annoyed."

When I read a post like this I can't help but feel like you've constructed a whole alternate reality of how things happened based on collecting various opinions among your own, rather than looking at the actual story itself.

Amen to that. It's like people whining about Usopp not fighting Jyabura. Big deal.

[gaara d. lucci]

Actually, didn't Robin get more development than Ussop?

[onemoment]

@gaara:

Actually, didn't Robin get more development than Ussop?

Well, no one said he got the most development.

[Zulen]

@ero_seinen:

I actually think that luffy will say "NO" when usopp will ask him to return, and then will add "I want SOGEKING to be my nakama, right usopp?" Then Usopp will make a crying promess like zoro's and say "From now on I'll become a great warrior of the sea".

Quoted for truth.

[CosmicDebris]

Robin was really the focus of the arc. She was given more background with a flashback, and in the end she decided that she belongs with the strawhats, and she realized she has the right to live. She didn't develop as a fighter, or do anything to get closer to her dream (besides not dying).
With the same logic people are using with Usopp I don't think she developed much more.

I think perhaps people don't really know how to define character development. (I could swear that video games have plagued the minds of young people too much) It doesn't mean that a character necessarily changes, or becomes greater in power and strength (levels up?).

Character development is also about just telling the audience more about the character, what makes them tick, their thought process. Any situation in which they're forced to react in a new way is character development. They don't have to succeed with each challenge.
While many may have want Usopp to make a big leap forward in becoming a fighter, his failures didn't negate progress with his character. If you see it this way, that's because your own thinking is more rigid. (btw I ought to start a thread for Meyers-Briggs tests, it would be intersting to see what people here are)

It's not wrong to feel disappointed that what you wanted to see happen didn't happen, and everyone is going to have a different opinion of how the character should progress, but the reason why someone like me in contrast just really loved the whole arc that "lacked development" supposedly is that I wasn't interested in the development in fighting strength and power but the internal battles that were going on.

I realize it's probably impossible to expect people to have a sudden paradigmn shift in thinking like that, because they don't want to anymore than I want to think the way they do, but, I'm glad I'm the happy one.

[Fanservice]

@onemoment:

No, I'll post about what an ass your being. What is this, 4chan? Gamefaqs? Did I not mean what I said?

How am I being an ass to you? I just stated my own opinion in a joking manner. IMO, he got miniscule, unlikeable development.

CosmicDebris:

I know it's moot point, but what are you expecting out of Usopp by the end of this arc? Cause If I asked you what you were thinking back when Usopp fought Luffy, given the situation right now, your answer might have a tinge of bias around it since things did not turn out the way the "Usopp fans" want it to turn out.

Bias is a given in anyone of us. I'm not really a big Usopp fan, but I was just frustrated that after that huge serious shit he had with Luffy and after getting his ass kicked by the FF, he would have a moment to really shine. Some of you guys say that he had it when he shot down the flag and when he sniped Spandam at the bridge. I feel it's still not enough. I don't see the entire point of Oda's fight switches during the entire EL saga because it only added up to the "No, Usopp…you can't fight. Just go do other stuff." point that Oda was (seemingly) trying to get at right after he made Usopp look so bad-ass against Luffy.

Kaku vs. Usopp would have been a legit fight because Usopp has real reason to carry beef against Kaku. I'm not stating this as just an opinion out of my ass...I'm stating it as what could likely happen as "match-ups"
based on the events prior to EL.

The whole fight against CP9 was basically something that said "well, look, here are the new attacks of each crew member!" and it affirms the fact that they got stronger, hence, there is development even just in that area. You take Usopp out of the fights, you're basically saying he can't fight opponents of those caliber. Add the introduction of "dourikis" (Obviously, a measuring stick used to emphasize how the crewmembers have grown), and we do the math that Usopp has not kicked any ass (not even Spandam's!) in this chapter...what are we suppossed to think? "Hurray, Usopp realized he's wrong and he shouldn't push himself too much! OMG CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT!"?

Some of the guys keep saying that we're trying to rush the story because the main payback of Usopp's "story" is for him to become a "Brave Seawarrior". We're not. We're just hoping for Oda to stop doing some sort of "see-saw" to Usopp's character development and show some concrete stuff that he has grown.

In the manga, the most evident "development" are with regard to fighting ability. It's a shonen manga, and we don't expect Luffy to become "emotionally mature" eventually. We expect him to kick ass and become Pirate King. Chapter after chapter, (at least, up until this point), the main highlight or the main conflicts are resolved in fights and we are being presented with "X vs. Y" scenarios which basically implies that if a character defeats or overcomes his opponent, he is one step closer to his goal. Oda has been doing fine before. Usopp fought in the Arlong ark. Also in the Alabasta arc. I would have been fine with THAT sort of Usopp because basically, yeah...he's scared. But he fights back. During the entire EL arc, I have NOT seen Usopp display that sort of bravery. Even during the times when he was being "brave", he got mocked (ie: Zoro saying "why does he have to sing?" before/after he sniped Spandam). He shot the WG flag. Big deal. He did so behind a mask and with the crew behind him, ready to save his ass if ever anyone interfered.

So all I'm saying is...here are the reasons as to why I'm not satisfied with Usopp in this arc. Feel free to shoot it down.

EDIT: I'm glad that even after 5 pages of discussion, this thread has remained flame-free. :D