I actually always got the feeling that DB\Z fillers did what Toriyama didn't really bother putting in the manga. In a sense, it was a good idea. I know for a fact that they used suggestions for story ideas recieved from viewer mail.
DragonBall is underrated
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I hope Toriyama never wanted to do any of the crap the anime put Gohan through during his training with Piccolo
I FOUND A ROBOT
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I was pretty sure this was where I read it, and I checked, and yeah it was (about Lunch I mean):
http://www.daizex.com/guides/rumors/index.shtml
(The "Toriyama didn't have anything to do with the filler" rumor)"Toriyama would typically come up with a vague idea and leave a memo for the TV series staff to, essentially, go wild with and develop a full story from. Some of these items included the back-history of the Saiyans and the Tsufurus for DBZ episode 20, the Z-Senshi's training with the "Ancient" Saiyans via Kami's Palace, and Lunch's persistent chasing of Tenshinhan. Even Yamcha's job as a baseball player was Toriyama's idea!"
http://www.daizex.com/guides/rumors/index.shtml -
I've suddenly, in a matter of minutes, lost my respect for Toriyama.
Brawl FC: 1848-1356-2850
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I actually thought all those filler ideas were pretty damn good. Specially the Tsufuru-jin backstory. Yamcha making money off baseball was pretty cool too.
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Anybody remember when GT was on Tonnami?
Back when Tonnami was cool… :DIBiDeR5eFKM
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I personally enjoyed the extra scenes with Lunch, Tenshinhan, and Chaozu.
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I enjoyed the last saga, and they should've adapted it into manga
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The one with Vegata and Nappa in that insect world was cool too. I'll bet the idea for the aliens was Toriyama's.
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Hey, I liked Yamcha the baseball player…and the whole Tsufujin idea wasn't too bad before they ruined it with stuff like Baby. I just feel sorry for Lunch being abandoned though...
Heh...and the Mr. Satan/Hercule thing reminds me that I just watched "DBZ in a Nutshell 2" again recently...
"OH NOW, WE'RE GOING TO BE BANNED ON CARTOON NETWORK NOW AND ITS ALL BECAUSE OF MR. SATA...I MEAN HERCULE" (then again his name is essentially Hercules Satan so you can't blame them for trying)
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then again his name is essentially Hercules Satan so you can't blame them for trying
Huh?
As in canon?
Because I've never seen that anywhere.
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I believe in the Viz manga (and maybe the "uncut" FUNi dub) they tried to slap in "Hercule" as being his first name.
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Ohh I checked, and Mr. Popo is NOT human. He's is…
an immortal djinn who lives with Kami in Kami's Lookout and is bound there eternally as the gardener and caretaker. He has served every other Kami (God/Guardian) of the Earth since the beginning of time
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Mr. Popo's my home boy.
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Huh?
As in canon?
Because I've never seen that anywhere.
Well, the rumor that was going around in the fanbase at the time was that it was his full name according to one of the daizenshuus. But considering how much you've studied those things over the years, if you didn't come across that, it must've been just a rumor, or a mistranslation from a foreign language edition.
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I agree, while I've joined my fair share of bandwagons bashing GT I actually feel I let the negative vibe directed to it kinda ruin it for me. I own the first 5 or 6 DVDs…tho sadly what they hold is a pretty boring part of the series.
I agree on Carter with the SSJ4 design, I really liked it not only cause it was different but because it actually showed some connection to the original saiyans who true forms were apes. I also gotta say I really liked the idea of the last story arc, as I think there should have been consequences with using the Dragonballs too much.
All in all, I agree pretty much with Carter and everyone else. It had some interesting ideas, but sadly drove down the wrong way street with them. I kinda wish the DB series got an updated series, but I suppose that would never happen with the sheer length of it and how well the first one has done and how well it still does.
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I agree, while I've joined my fair share of bandwagons bashing GT I actually feel I let the negative vibe directed to it kinda ruin it for me. I own the first 5 or 6 DVDs…tho sadly what they hold is a pretty boring part of the series.
I agree on Carter with the SSJ4 design, I really liked it not only cause it was different but because it actually showed some connection to the original saiyans who true forms were apes. I also gotta say I really liked the idea of the last story arc, as I think there should have been consequences with using the Dragonballs too much.
All in all, I agree pretty much with Carter and everyone else. It had some interesting ideas, but sadly drove down the wrong way street with them. I kinda wish the DB series got an updated series, but I suppose that would never happen with the sheer length of it and how well the first one has done and how well it still does.
Somehow doing an update of a Toriyama work is doable considering that Dr. Slump got an "update series" after DBGT ended. The problem in my head is what exactly to animate: it would be great to start from the beginning and do a different perspective or means of telling the story, but everyone who wants the uber action would probably rather them start with the Saiyans or even Piccolo.
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I'm aware Dr. Slump got an update series, that was essentially what gave me the idea. But unlike Dr. Slump, the Dragonball series has a continuing plot and is very long.
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I basically agree with the later part of this thread. GT had some very good ideas, just flawed in execution. The ending is also wonderful and makes me want to include it in the DB canon (but I mostly want to think GT never happened in the DB world).
Also, I feel a series update is bound to happen eventually. All great anime/manga will always come back. With the DB franchise, I could see them re animating things, add more "filler"/canon segments to keep things interesting, and ultimately eliminate the drawn out phases of the anime making it much shorter. If the whole series was done right, the length would probably be around 200 episodes. That's not all that bad at all.
Originally Posted by Herms on Dragon Ball Daizenshuu 7
You know, Christianity and Buddhism are a bunch of hooey; the REAL religion is Green Slugman-ism.
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I kind of hope DB doesn't get a remake
Mostly because I thought the "older" animation style fit it so well.
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I basically agree with the later part of this thread. GT had some very good ideas, just flawed in execution. The ending is also wonderful and makes me want to include it in the DB canon (but I mostly want to think GT never happened in the DB world).
Also, I feel a series update is bound to happen eventually. All great anime/manga will always come back. With the DB franchise, I could see them re animating things, add more "filler"/canon segments to keep things interesting, and ultimately eliminate the drawn out phases of the anime making it much shorter. If the whole series was done right, the length would probably be around 200 episodes. That's not all that bad at all.
One thing that somehow could work to the advantage of creating a more congruitous series would be maybe to hint at various ideas added later if they want to set things up for later or create more flow. One idea in particular would be maybe to do the Red Ribbon Army arc, but also hint at Dr. Gero and the possibilities leading to the later model androids and ultimately Cell. Other ideas could possibly experimenting with things that didn't work in the manga or ideas that could have happened…like maybe an ending with Goku dying on Namek or Gohan successfully succeeding his father by killing the final enemy. But while some would want a pure manga adaptation, they could still incorperate both new ideas or some "filler" that actually worked in the anime.
Y'know, Negima WAS awesome…
For the first 18 volumes.
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You know, against my better judgment, I'd actually get kinda excited if Toriyama ever worked on another dragon ball manga. Not that it would ever happen, of course, since he's too tired to ever seriously work on anything else. But if he took a completely different approach to it, I could really dig seeing him write all those characters again.
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@Tokoro:
One thing that somehow could work to the advantage of creating a more congruitous series would be maybe to hint at various ideas added later if they want to set things up for later or create more flow. One idea in particular would be maybe to do the Red Ribbon Army arc, but also hint at Dr. Gero and the possibilities leading to the later model androids and ultimately Cell. Other ideas could possibly experimenting with things that didn't work in the manga or ideas that could have happened…like maybe an ending with Goku dying on Namek or Gohan successfully succeeding his father by killing the final enemy. But while some would want a pure manga adaptation, they could still incorperate both new ideas or some "filler" that actually worked in the anime.
Awesome idea. They could even incorporate the data flies as allusions to the Cell saga. If they were to go with the alternate ending approach, that would be better for an OVA or something, rather than the actual anime itself. And for another idea they could incorporate: They could show what happened to Future Trunks when Majin Buu came along. They already tried that for a game, sure, but that was poorly written and thought out. It could be so much better with good writers and maybe input from Toriyama. Dude is getting old and senile though lol.
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How come you guys at AP say that the Dragon Ball series got bad treatment and horrible voices in America? :wassat: I mean, all I've seen is the American version, everything always seemed to always fit perfectly. What's the deal?
brsPfRhMM-Y
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@Lobster:
How come you guys at AP say that the Dragon Ball series got bad treatment and horrible voices in America?
Because they did
Piccolo sounded nothing like he did in the original (he was cool and intelligent in the original… as opposed to the BLARGH BLARG monster voice CHRIS SABAT did)
Vegeta sucked (once again, cool and cocky in the original, he's some screaming pseudo-limey in the FUNi dub. Chris fucking Sabat)
That and their stupid pronounciations, dumb translations ("Instant Transmission?" come on), GENERIC-AS-FUCK SHITTY TECHNO BGM, and so forth.
At least they left Dragonball's BGM in, as far as I could remember.
the bigot who thinks being an asshole is actually worth shit
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The wierd thing about this argument is that for the most part, both the sub and dub sucked.
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Sorry, but you're wrong.
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That and their stupid pronounciations, dumb translations ("Instant Transmission?" come on), GENERIC-AS-FUCK SHITTY TECHNO BGM, and so forth.
Many people actually believe Faulconer's music to be great, even better than the original Kikuchi score. I'll never understand why.
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That always boggled my mind too
I remember there was one guy on GameFAQs who defended the Faulconer music to the death. I had some decent discourse with him, and I kind of felt bad for him because he actually did have intelligent reasons to support it (and he acknowledged that the rock band music used in the movies was shit), but…. he was supporting something so retarded. I mean, to me there's no question as to which score is better. Faulconer's just sounds so damn…. fake.
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The original DB music is indeed underrated. While playing Tenkaichi 2 JP I kinda didn't like the original music, but after a awhile, it really really grew on me. And soon, I just loved it and was kinda dissapointed none of it was kept in the dub/American version of Tenkaichi. But atleast it's in the boxsets tho. Actually makes the dub abit better with the original music behind it.
@Carter: Yeah, the sub sucked too. One of the rare occasions where that has actually happened.
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No, you're still wrong, the JP version was awesome
the bigot who thinks being an asshole is actually worth shit
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It's one of my personal favorite anime ensemble casts. Kind of a shame Tenshinhan's voice actor passed away last year. He would've made an awesome Bartholomew Kuma for OP.
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The way I see it, the DB dub is great for all the wrong reasons. The voice work, while definitely wrong for most characters, is good itself for the most part. The American voice actors made their characters their own. The music is good, but inapropriately used. It's there way too often and doesn't fit some scenes. And if you've never, ever seen the Japanese version, it's a decent watch.
Compared to the Japanese version, however, it's so, so bad. There are barely any accurate translations, voices don't match their characters, the music is inferior… It's really a shame because DB is the one franchise Funimation refuses to do right.
Originally Posted by Herms on Dragon Ball Daizenshuu 7
You know, Christianity and Buddhism are a bunch of hooey; the REAL religion is Green Slugman-ism.
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I could never get into it after how awful, AWFUL season 3 turned out to be, but it's true that they eventually got better, and did a good job of satisfying their audience.
Still, though, just about everything FUNi's done since then turned out much better.
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I could never get into it after how awful, AWFUL season 3 turned out to be, but it's true that they eventually got better, and did a good job of satisfying their audience.
Still, though, just about everything FUNi's done since then turned out much better.
Here's how I saw season 3: Funi was stuck with the project after Saban bailed out and probably had scripts up through the end of the Frieza fight they needed to film. (note how nothing got better until the Garlic Jr. arc) So they decided to throw some stuff together using these scripts and…well, that's how we ended up with that segment. Sure things got better even with their faults (Faulconer), but that's how I see it.
Y'know, Negima WAS awesome…
For the first 18 volumes.
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@Cap'n:
Because they did
Piccolo sounded nothing like he did in the original (he was cool and intelligent in the original… as opposed to the BLARGH BLARG monster voice CHRIS SABAT did)
Vegeta sucked (once again, cool and cocky in the original, he's some screaming pseudo-limey in the FUNi dub. Chris fucking Sabat)
That and their stupid pronounciations, dumb translations ("Instant Transmission?" come on), GENERIC-AS-FUCK SHITTY TECHNO BGM, and so forth.
At least they left Dragonball's BGM in, as far as I could remember.
I agree and disagree with you on some things you said.
I'll admit that Chris Sabat made Piccolo's voice too deep and gruff. It took awhile for it to grow on me, since I was so used to Scott McNeil. It was a weird change for me, but his voice is still tolerable.
As for Vegeta, you basically summed up everything I have to say about him. Though I thought Sabat's voice is better for fighting Vegeta as opposed to conversational. But all admit that it sometimes fits his arrogant prince attitude. Drummond was great at making him sound like the calm, sneaky bastard that he is.
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@Tokoro:
Here's how I saw season 3: Funi was stuck with the project after Saban bailed out and probably had scripts up through the end of the Frieza fight they needed to film. (note how nothing got better until the Garlic Jr. arc) So they decided to throw some stuff together using these scripts and…well, that's how we ended up with that segment. Sure things got better even with their faults (Faulconer), but that's how I see it.
There were some stories going around that FUNi was too cheap to pay for their own translator, so they had to work with some really shitty scripts sent by Toei full of awful engrish. So that's why we got all that terrible made-up "witty" dialog.
It makes sense that the dialog for their DB dub was SO much better since they were working from Steve Daimao's scripts.
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The fact that I grew up with the American DBZ dub makes me kind of understand why some 4kids One Piece fans actually liked the 4kids voices. The voices may not have fit the characters, but they were the only ones I knew and they were the voices that I thought of when I thought of that character.
Definitely sure my opinion on the dub would be a lot different if I actually watched the original first… or at all. Though it'd probably take me a while to get used to them using the same voice for adult Goku that they used for kid Goku.
I PLIGHT MY TOTH
Hidden:
93Jjel1euaQ
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I think you mean ocean's.
And yea, some of the voices were pretty good back then. Like Piccolo, Vegeta and Yamcha. And I also think the first Goku voice was by FAR the best one.
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I actually sorta started watching DBZ when the Funimation dub took over… it was odd timing. I remember seeing the Raditz part of DBZ, then I didn't have CN for a long time. The next time I watched DBZ was with the Funi voices, so that's what I got used to.
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Well, the rumor that was going around in the fanbase at the time was that it was his full name according to one of the daizenshuus.
Fuckin' DB fans -_-
What???????
PEOPLE LIKING SS4????
And here I thought I was the only one.
You know what I like about Super Saiyan 4? Is how much goddamn sense it makes.
You'll recall a little-known fact that the SS (I'm dropping the 'J' because I've reached a point of not caring anymore) as we know it what with the hair and eyes is a result of the individuals not having tails at the time. Having a tail would result in the Golden Oozaru which according to filler in the Freeza saga during (I believe) Vegeta's little flashback to the history of the LSS (OMIGOD GOING BY FILLER YOU BASTARD ((yes going by filler because we're talking about GT!!!!)) ) was what the original Legendary SS really was.
That said, SS4 is technically the REAL SS2 and it being more primordial/savage just makes perfect sense. The red hair? Dunno where that comes from exactly but then again how does their hair get freaking yellow?
Anyway yeah, SS4 4EVA
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Was the monkey in that flashback even golden?
We're taking filler material seriously in reference to more filler material. Either way, it's filler.
Also, I always wondered why they gave them red hair. I mean, why red?
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Was the monkey in that flashback even golden?
It wasn't colored, it was shadowed.
We're taking filler material seriously in reference to more filler material. Either way, it's filler.
That's the point.
It's not a "OMFG That's not canon and Toriyama didn't belch it onto paper with his holy pencil that he inherited from the Japanese Sun Goddess!" discussion.
The old bastard doesn't even remember his own goddamn story so I'm through caring about nit-shit-picking about what is/isn't canon.
He doesn't care, I don't care.
There was a day when I ran the most popular DBZ site in the world, that I actually gave a damn about that shit, but now, that I'm older, have a life and have seen the world, it doesn't really fucking matter.
I just like to see cool people blow shit up and talk about how cool it was.
I'm not unloading on you in particular Knight. So don't take it personally, just in general.
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Okay, so you're SURE this is never mentioned in any of japanese daizenshuus?
Nope. Never ran across anything even remotely like that. If I did I'm sure I would have had a field day messing with people's heads back in the day.
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It wasn't colored, it was shadowed.
So it was most likely just a regular monkey.
It's not a "OMFG That's not canon and Toriyama didn't belch it onto paper with his holy pencil that he inherited from the Japanese Sun Goddess!" discussion.
Right.
The old bastard doesn't even remember his own goddamn story so I'm through caring about nit-shit-picking about what is/isn't canon.
I know he has forgotten a large amount of minor characters, but the story as well? Oh my.
There was a day when I ran the most popular DBZ site in the world, that I actually gave a damn about that shit, but now, that I'm older, have a life and have seen the world, it doesn't really fucking matter.
You traveled near and far, reaching the pinnacle of human achievement. Then you realized Dragon Ball isn't all it's cracked up to be. Truly an inspirational story.
I just like to see cool people blow shit up and talk about how cool it was.
That's cool.
I'm not unloading on you in particular Knight. So don't take it personally, just in general.
Who the would take it personally? Some loony, I'm sure.
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Who the would take it personally?
On this board? You'd be surprised….
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To be honest, it wouldn't really surprise if all shonen manga artists have bad memories about their own work. They work their asses off each week, and even get sick from exhaustion. It's a wonder they just don't go nuts.
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But then you've got people like Oda who make them all look like whiney bitches.
The man did an incredible amount of work for the 10th Anniversary celebrations.
He basically created a book of color spreads with the pop-up thing, was interviewed to death on the different projects, had public and radio appearances throughout the year, did stuff as random and awesome as design a surf board for the Kamakura event, no doubt answered tons of bullshit questions from staff regarding Yellow, oversaw Movie 9 work as well as original TV animation storylines, Cross Epoch, all while juggling his story, SBS, fanart and color spreads for almost all of the above mentioned projects
And what did we endure?
He reused a JUMP cover for a tank cover.
No constant bitching or whining (only playful jesting) and absolutely no scribbles. He's by no means a superhuman, he just loves his job. Which leads me to believe, a lot of manga authors are miserable people with hollow lives living a lie.
edit: Either that or Oda uses enough Heroin in a year to keep Panamanian druglords in business.
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Oda's a madman, yea, and a real trooper. You can't expect everyone to be like him, though.
And I wouldn't be surprised if he's got all the info about the OP world written down in a pile of notebooks or something. He obviously takes his world-building very seriously, something that shonen artists typically don't.
