oh ok that makes sense i was refering to the native american totum pole with the owl and wolf
General Devil Fruit Discussion
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Hmmm… if there's a Hito Hito no Mi can we hope to see a Giant Giant no mi? Or even a Fishman Fruit? Though the Fishman fruit would be rendered useless I don't see why they ought to be (more) discriminated :P
well if a fishman fruit was useless than my dream that appeared in physical form Vander Decken would also be useless. Is a fishman useless underwater with a devil fruit? I say not. And having a fishman devil fruit would give you the advantage of tricking the enemy into thinking that you have drowned when you can breathe underwater
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well if a fishman fruit was useless than my dream that appeared in physical form Vander Decken would also be useless. Is a fishman useless underwater with a devil fruit? I say not. And having a fishman devil fruit would give you the advantage of tricking the enemy into thinking that you have drowned when you can breathe underwater
I believe you wouldn't even have the strength to breathe.
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I believe you wouldn't even have the strength to breathe.
if luffy had the strength to hold his breathe im sure a fishman can do it
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@IDC:
tigers and turtles actually exist maybe a sea monster and cerberus
Oh my
You're new. Find the Blackbeard thread. You will do this now.
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Oh my
You're new. Find the Blackbeard thread. You will do this now.Oh no dude PLEASE don't make people read that bullshit Cerberus fruit theory… seriously?
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I want to ask some questions and discuss about Maggelan's,Blackbeard's and Mr.3 DV powers!
So Maggelan can create and become its power exactly like logia!And he has been taking most hits,cannon balls etc almost with no damage…The only times where he seemed to receive actual damage was when Luffy hit him with the champion riffle and the jet bazooka!So what exactly happens with him?Why sometimes he takes physical hits,cannon balls etc wihtout receiveing any damage but when Luffy hits him he actually does?Maybe it is that he takes so little damage,that weak attacks don't even hurt him almost like luffy,but when the power is great the hit affects him...Enlighten me on this one pls...
Also about Mr.3...His body is wax right?So physical hits should have little to no effect at all right?But why is he so vulnerable to physical attacks?
Also finally does anyone knows what Marco meant about Teach when he said that his body isn't normal? -
Magellan and Mr. 3 have really similar abilities. They're not actually turning into their respective poison/wax but are oozing it from their bodies. You wouldn't say a sweating person is a sweat logia because they never turned into sweat, but just have it covering their bodies.
And Magellan can simply take attacks. Blackbeard… anything we say at this point is purely speculation. But I guess it's the reason he can eat two devil fruits.
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Magellan and Mr. 3 have really similar abilities. They're not actually turning into their respective poison/wax but are oozing it from their bodies. You wouldn't say a sweating person is a sweat logia because they never turned into sweat, but just have it covering their bodies.
And Magellan can simply take attacks. Blackbeard… anything we say at this point is purely speculation. But I guess it's the reason he can eat two devil fruits.
He didn;t really eat the second one unless you want to classify eating/gaining devil fruits in the same category but you do bring up a good point. Blackbeard has explained his devil fruit atleast twice. Though he hasn't fully explained its true powers but he gave us a basic understanding. His damage doubles at the cost of him taking twice as much damage so blackbeard can be hit. His devil fruit might be the first one to not even be classified as a paramecia for all we know
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He doesn't take twice damage,it was a wrong translation,he takes damage like all the other people in OPverse or maybe more but NOT twice and it's not because of the YamiYami nomi
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He doesn't take twice damage,it was a wrong translation,he takes damage like all the other people in OPverse or maybe more but NOT twice and it's not because of the YamiYami nomi
But he still does 2x as much damage to others or no? Also if it is a wrong translation then what is the correct one and how would you know its not because of the yami yami? >.>
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Again,he takes damage like ANYBODY or maybe more but NOT twice.
Well this is a simple answear,beecause EVERYONE takes damage some more some less…i dont get it why his DF must be the reason that he takes damage when all living creatures can be damaged.
All he said was that even if his DF is a Logia he takes damage like normal people and he cant let attacks pass through him,quite simple. -
I'm fairly sure it isn't a mistranslation that BB's fruit makes him more vulnerable to attacks. I don't think it's exactly twice the "damage" though, but more like twice the pain.
http://www.mangareader.net/103-2548-19/one-piece/chapter-441.html
I know it's mangareader but I think they got the gist of right, there. Dunno if the correct term is "twice" or just "more" though.
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C'mon if we going by this so check this http://read.mangashare.com/One-Piece/chapter-441/page009.html ….
Anyway the point is that he don't take twice the damage for sure,and i believe that it's just like "i am a logia but i cant let attacks pass through me and i take damage like a normal person" and that's all.
I cant figure why his DF must be the reason to take damage like a normal person or maybe more when EVERY living creature can be damaged.Or i am completely wrong and his DF may be a reason for taking more damage(not twice..) and Oda will explain it in the future along with his "strange body" but i dont really believe that there is a connection between his DF and damage/pain. -
Again,he takes damage like ANYBODY or maybe more but NOT twice.
Well this is a simple answear,beecause EVERYONE takes damage some more some less…i dont get it why his DF must be the reason that he takes damage when all living creatures can be damaged.
All he said was that even if his DF is a Logia he takes damage like normal people and he cant let attacks pass through him,quite simple.that has nothing to do with what i asked
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Where can i find the chapter that shows all the OP characters before Roger's execution?The one that shows Moria slim you know?
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Where can i find the chapter that shows all the OP characters before Roger's execution?The one that shows Moria slim you know?
Didn't you already get the answer just a page back?!
How about, Google, you can even copypaste: "Read One Piece Chapter 0 online".
It's sometimes also called Chapter 565.5: Chapter 0, so I understand your confusion. -
Thx a lot man!!!
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Candy no. The others obviously yes. They are things found in and created by the environment. Logias were never classified by how they work only on what they are. Before Darkness was introduced they all just happened to work the same. Blackbeard bled when Luffy hit him in ID and when Bonney kicked him.
You are right about Blackbeard bleeding in these 2 scenes so i don't really know what to think anymore…
And finally as you said yourslef candy syrup isn't a natural element so the theory is disputed right?'Cause even if one logia devil fruit exists that doesn't have to do with natural elements then this means that your theory is wrong right? -
candy syrup isn't a natural element so the theory is disputed right?'Cause even if one logia devil fruit exists that doesn't have to do with natural elements then this means that your theory is wrong right?
That Logia is not canon, it was in some movie (I think?). Oda himself has stated that Logia "gives you control over the forces of nature" (paraphrased, the wording might be a little off, going by memory). The key word is nature. Logia means nature system, IIRC, and all of the canon Logia fruits are basically powerful forces that exist naturally.
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i believe that it's just like "i am a logia but i cant let attacks pass through me and i take damage like a normal person" and that's all.
I cant figure why his DF must be the reason to take damage like a normal person or maybe more when EVERY living creature can be damagedAll translations I've seen of it has him emphasizing pain / damage. More pain, twice the pain, call it what you will… his fruit most likely does cause him more pain from attacks (at least some attacks). The explanation he gives himself -- his body is gravity, it "sucks in more pain". Just take it at face value, 'tis Shounen-logic.
We really need a reliable translation here though. Anyone around who has one?
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Have you checked C-net? They are usually quite good, as far as I know.
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I would, but he hasn't done that chapter :s They start at 460-something IIRC.
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You are right about Blackbeard bleeding in these 2 scenes so i don't really know what to think anymore…
And finally as you said yourslef candy syrup isn't a natural element so the theory is disputed right?'Cause even if one logia devil fruit exists that doesn't have to do with natural elements then this means that your theory is wrong right?Candy isn't cannon so no point bringing it up.
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You could always ask Aohige-san. He is often quite willing to clear up any misunderstandings if he has the time, and if he says no, you're no worse off than you are now.
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At first I refuted this completely, but it actually WOULD make sense - however, we have seen him bleed, so it can't be that he doesn't take damage.
To answer your original question, he is considered a Logia - fact. But Logia fruits are not classified by the fact that they are normally intangible to attacks, or evade them, as you put it. He is a Logia because he is able to turn into an element, a force of nature - in this case darkness, and following Oda-logic this grants him the power over gravity. So his body doesn't actually turn into darkness, which means that attacks still hit him. I've always thought that since he is basically "gravity", attacks placed on him have a higher damage potential due to stronger forces (Blackbeard's gravity) being at work, thus basically pulling the incoming force in even more and dealing more damage/pain to him.
I am going to pick nits here. But this is not 100 percent accurate. He is a logia not because he is a force of nature and not because he can turn into an element. He is a logia because he can become his DF power, create his DF power, and control the DF power he creates.
Also, a logia can be anything Oda wants. It doesnt have to be natural. Just meet the conditions i stated.
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According to Oda's own words, it is indeed because he is a force of nature. Become, create, control is a fanmade - accurate thus far, and likely will forever be, but fanmade - way of describing it.
"Logia… ...gives control over the forces of nature"
http://onepiece.wikia.com/wiki/SBS_Volume_30Logia even means nature-something (system, I think). By all evidence thus far that is what defines Logia types. It could not be something like, say, beer, even though the become, create, control term could still apply to it, as beer certainly does not fall under "force of nature".
UNLESS that SBS is mistranslated on the Wiki, but there's no reason to mistrust it that I know of.
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BB ability is like a black hole a pure gravitational force that pulls everything into him, this includes pain which is why he isn't "intangible" in the sense that we've seen other Logias.
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Just a samll nitcpick but the sentence ''Become, create, control is a fanmade - accurate thus far, and likely will forever be, but fanmade - way of describing it.'' is wrong…Blackbeard cannot become darkness!If he could he would be able to dodge attacks...He can only control the darkness that he creates to protect himself!
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Being darkness is the entire reason he can not dodge attacks. Darkness represents gravity, gravity pulls everything in - lightning, fire, punches, cuts, pain. He explains this well enough himself in the scan a few posts above.
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According to Oda's own words, it is indeed because he is a force of nature. Become, create, control is a fanmade - accurate thus far, and likely will forever be, but fanmade - way of describing it.
"Logia… ...gives control over the forces of nature"
http://onepiece.wikia.com/wiki/SBS_Volume_30Logia even means nature-something (system, I think). By all evidence thus far that is what defines Logia types. It could not be something like, say, beer, even though the become, create, control term could still apply to it, as beer certainly does not fall under "force of nature".
UNLESS that SBS is mistranslated on the Wiki, but there's no reason to mistrust it that I know of.
This doesnt make sense to me. What does nature mean? earthquakes are forces of nature. Smoke isnt a force of nature. Rubber exists in nature. Poison exists in nature. Animals exist in nature yet they are given a different class? The noro noro fruit is a particle that exists in nature (in the OPverse) yet that was paramecia.
Why can all logia but BB become intangible yet no paramecia or zoan can?
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What does nature mean? Ask Oda, as you can see he is the one who says it. You do realize Logia means nature (-something, unless I'm horribly misinformed on that in which case forgive me, but I've seen it from multiple sources)?"Forces of nature" is not something I came up with. I'd say it fits his description well enough though. All those things can be considered "natural forces" in a loose sense. Fires can start and cause destruction and brings smoke with it. Well enough. A swamp is probably the vaguest so far, but a swamp can be pretty hazardous. Things like magma, lightning, gravity (darkness)… should be obvious enough. Rubber exists, and poison, but are not "forces". That appears to be how Oda defines it. I don't know why you are arguing against what Oda himself says =/ As for Whitebeard though, Oda DID say that "he is a Paramecia who is no weaker than the Logia" so you can take that as sort of an acknowledgment that earthquakes are immense forces of nature. However in a strict technical sense WB's fruit gives him the ability to create vibrations, so… yep, it's consistent.
Why is that question relevant? You have the definition of Logia right there from the author's mouth. It isn't defined by "become, create, control".
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http://www.mangareader.net/103-2648-10/one-piece/chapter-541.html
A Sandman, Crocodile is able to manipulate sand and transform his body into it.
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Yes, like I said it does go for all Logia fruits, and that is sort of an in-universe acknowledgment of the principle (though create is missing, we know it's the case. Although I've seen people theorize that they only indirectly create their element, by turning their body into it and then dislodging that body part). It it isn't what defines them though. That would be the connection to nature, vague though it may be, meaning you can't have a Logia with B, Cr, Co that isn't a force of nature to begin with. I was responding to:
He is a logia not because he is a force of nature and not because he can turn into an element. He is a logia because he can become his DF power, create his DF power, and control the DF power he creates.
Also, a logia can be anything Oda wants. It doesnt have to be natural. Just meet the conditions i stated.
Which is wrong by the evidence we have so far.
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I was just presenting more evidence.
But still the argument is more clear. It's an if/than statement that needs to be said correctly.
If A is a Logia, than he can do 1, 2, and 3.
not if A can do 1, 2, or 3, A is a Logia.In any case, Blackbeard himself has stated what makes him the exception to the rule, which is something inherent to his abilities because of the nature of his "element."
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Yeah, you've got it right. I didn't think of it that way. The usual mistake is adding a 4 of "letting attacks pass through them".
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Something that is typical of Logias. It was how Caribou was identified as one early on.
But we can also note it didn't phase through him, it was absorbed, which, like Blackbeard, is something inherent in his individual "element." -
This doesnt make sense to me. What does nature mean? earthquakes are forces of nature. Smoke isnt a force of nature. Rubber exists in nature. Poison exists in nature. Animals exist in nature yet they are given a different class? The noro noro fruit is a particle that exists in nature (in the OPverse) yet that was paramecia.
Why can all logia but BB become intangible yet no paramecia or zoan can?
Smoke isnt a force of nature. Do you think water never boils in nature that creates smoke.
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Yes, like I said it does go for all Logia fruits, and that is sort of an in-universe acknowledgment of the principle (though create is missing, we know it's the case. Although I've seen people theorize that they only indirectly create their element, by turning their body into it and then dislodging that body part). It it isn't what defines them though. That would be the connection to nature, vague though it may be, meaning you can't have a Logia with B, Cr, Co that isn't a force of nature to begin with. I was responding to:
Which is wrong by the evidence we have so far.
http://onepiece.wikia.com/wiki/SBS_Volume_58
"D: Hello, Oda-sensei! I have a question. Is Whitebeard, Edward Newgate, a Logia or a Paramecia? I personally think he's Logia, since he took Aokiji's attack without turning to ice, but…?
P.N. NY
O: I guess that's difficult. The answer is Paramecia. "Guragura no mi" is said to be the most powerful of the many paramecia fruits. It's easy to think that he's an "Earthquake Human" and must be Logia, but if that was so, he'd have to become an earthquake himself. Whitebeard creates earthquakes, in other words he's a "Vibration Human". That means he's a Paramecia who isn't any weaker than the Logias."Oda says in the volume 58 SBS that WB was not a logia because he creates earthquakes but cant become an earthquake.
Water boiling makes steam not smoke.
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Well that's because as Psychosis pointed out, Logia all have those properties. But it isn't what defines them at the core, the connection to nature is (Logia = nature system). What Oda says actually makes perfect sense. If he was a Logia - that is, BECAME a "force of nature" - he'd be an Earthquake Human. But he isn't. He creates them, through his fruit that gives him the ability to create vibrations - NOT the ability to create earthquakes, as Akainu's is to create magma, this is a crucial distinction - and thus is a "Vibration Human".
WB's fruit doesn't have a connection to "forces of nature" that's as direct as the Logias. He can create vibrations, which at his level is earthquakes. But if say a two-year old got his fruit, he wouldn't be creating anything on the scale of earthquakes, where if a two-year old got Akainu's fruit he'd still be creating magma all the same.
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Smoke isnt forse of nature. Do you think water never boils in nature that creates smoke.
That's steam… which exists anyway with old faithful and the like.
Smoke exists anywhere there's fire.
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Well that's because as Psychosis pointed out, Logia all have those properties. But it isn't what defines them at the core, the connection to nature is (Logia = nature system). What Oda says actually makes perfect sense. If he was a Logia - that is, BECAME a "force of nature" - he'd be an Earthquake Human. But he isn't. He creates them, through his fruit that gives him the ability to create vibrations - NOT the ability to create earthquakes, as Akainu's is to create magma, this is a crucial distinction - and thus is a "Vibration Human".
WB's fruit doesn't have a connection to "forces of nature" that's as direct as the Logias. He can create vibrations, which at his level is earthquakes. But if say a two-year old got his fruit, he wouldn't be creating anything on the scale of earthquakes, where if a two-year old got Akainu's fruit he'd still be creating magma all the same.
WB creates vibrations. Vibrations occur in nature. Yet he is not a logia.
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"Occurring" in nature isn't the key, being a "force" of nature is. I've said this from the start. You nitpick too much; Oda's intentions are fairly clear. Logia means nature system, and the SBS I've cited has him explicitly stating it. Denying the connection to nature is plugging your ears :/
Earthquakes are forces of nature. WB most technically creates vibrations, and is powerful enough to make them equivalent to earthquakes. It's easy to see why it's Paramecia and not Logia. Magma is a force of nature, and Akainu creates magma, straight up. It's easy to see why he's Logia.
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This doesnt make sense to me. What does nature mean? earthquakes are forces of nature. Smoke isnt a force of nature. Rubber exists in nature. Poison exists in nature. Animals exist in nature yet they are given a different class? The noro noro fruit is a particle that exists in nature (in the OPverse) yet that was paramecia.
Why can all logia but BB become intangible yet no paramecia or zoan can?
Think the environment. There is nothing tangible about an earthquake. They are just shock waves from the earth, clapping you hands is the same effect on a smaller scale. Smoke is a force of nature. Its carbon being released from burning material. Rubber is an organic byproduct and poison is the same deal. They aren't a part of the Earth.
That makes no sense. What does slowing down time have to do with nature? Time is a dimension like width, length, and height or nothing but a concept. Foxy basically distorts reality on a small scale for his target.
Because elements aren't tangible to begin with? Explain to me how sand and ice could stay together when hit? You can't grab fire, water, wind, smoke, sand, mud, lava, light, or lightning. Ice and Lava are jut different forms of water and earth. Obviously you can touch and can't phase through an animal and animals don't just fall apart when held. Why can't Mr. 3 or Mag turn into their powers? Well only because Oda said so and Teach takes damage because he is sucking everything towards him including his own body. Nobody is denying it needs further explanation since you'd think he should be like Doppleman and Caribou combined if he is a black hole man.
Smoke isnt forse of nature. Do you think water never boils in nature that creates smoke.
Boiling water makes steam not smoke. Steam could very well be a logia if Oda wishes it. If Big Mam controls plants(or if we ever see anyone with the ability) it will be a paramecia too. She'll control and make plants but you can't become a plant. Well unless Oda wants it to be a Zoan but I doubt that. Zoan would have to equal a specific plant.
I used to be for Paramecia but this conversation has me questioning what is Jozu. Technically he is just a different form of carbon like Smoker and the way he fights is like Akainu. Resistant to cutting attacks but blunt attacks could break him up like Aokiji.
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I think Jozu's arm breaking off after Aokiji froze him shows that he's Paramecia. Logia bodyparts can break off but they will "regrow", Jozu's arm didn't though. Unless we assume it was because of Aokiji using Haki thus freezing his "real body" that he was able to accomplish it.
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He was frozen and then it broke off. Hard to come up with a reason why that matters but maybe it does. I kinda find it hard to believe if you somehow froze Crocodile, broke a limb off, then thawed him and the broken part it would just turn to sand and rejoin his body.
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Think the environment. There is nothing tangible about an earthquake.
Light aint tangible either son
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I think Jozu's arm breaking off after Aokiji froze him shows that he's Paramecia. Logia bodyparts can break off but they will "regrow", Jozu's arm didn't though. Unless we assume it was because of Aokiji using Haki thus freezing his "real body" that he was able to accomplish it.
Diamonds are just as much a force of nature as sand is or smoke is. Yet jozu doesnt seem to be a logia at all.
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I think Rayleigh described logias as having "flowing bodies" which doesn't really make sense for diamond. Also, there's no evidence that Jozu can create diamonds. The signs point to his ability being similar to Luffy's.
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I think Rayleigh described logias as having "flowing bodies" which doesn't really make sense for diamond. Also, there's no evidence that Jozu can create diamonds. The signs point to his ability being similar to Luffy's.
Yea I get that. And i believe he is a paramecia. But people are saying that to be a logia all you have to be is a force of nature. Or something with nature. Diamonds are natural. Just like vibrations are natural. While one seems to be a paramecia and the other is confirmed to be one.
Also, Aokiji doesnt have a flowing body but he is a logia.
