This post is deleted!
General Devil Fruit Discussion
-
-
@ShenLong:
A few questions.
Could Marco use his devil fruit abilities in any way to kill a person?
And could Blackbeard use his darkness to kill someone? Not with his strength only with the Yami Yami no Mi's powers?
McKinley once said that Enel destroyed his old homeland Birka, so is he able to kill a person and destroy an entire island?
Marco could probably do some intense burning with his flames. I am not to sure if he can fire any of them though. But I would imagine he could
-
Oda said in an SBS that Marco's flames can't burn anything, only heal him.
-
I was just rereading some old chapters and I came across something that might be interesting.
A lot of discussions seem to be around Blackbeard and his devil fruit ability, and a lot of them about him being able to negate other peoples devil fruits. However when rereading the Enies Lobby arc I came across the Awa Awa no mi again, or Kalifa's devil fruit.
Now at some point during the fight with Nami, she states that her bubbles can remove anything from a persons body. Do you think this would include devil fruit ability's? Because if that is true, then Blackbeards fruit(or what we have seen of it) all of a sudden isn't that special anymore. -
No, it almost certainly does not include Devil Fruit abilities.
-
No, it almost certainly does not include Devil Fruit abilities.
and what is the base for this argument? we have never seen it used against devil fruit users and neither has it been clearly said wether it could or could not remove devil fruit powers. All she says is: "The bubbles I diffuse from my body can remove anything from stains and dirt to strength and more"
More could very well be devil fruit powers aswell
-
Because as you said it would make Blackbeard's fruit way less unique and pretty much insta-kill most of its hype. Oda would almost certainly not do that, hence Califa's fruit almost certainly can not remove Devil Fruit powers.
-
Because as you said it would make Blackbeard's fruit way less unique and pretty much insta-kill most of its hype. Oda would almost certainly not do that, hence Califa's fruit almost certainly can not remove Devil Fruit powers.
No I can't say thats enough reasoning for me to go with it. I think its a little weird that the only one's to come in contact with her ability where not devil fruit users. If Oda wanted us to know it didn't work on devil fruit powers, why didnt he have her use it on a devil fruit user aswell? For example an attempt of hers to stop Monster Chopper (just an example, please dont go further into that particular situation).
-
Well if that's not enough for you then I have no more =/ What else is there to say? Blackbeard's fruit is supposed to be unique, it has been presented to us as such… it just doesn't feel very likely that there'll be another one capable of doing the same thing.
-
Well if that's not enough for you then I have no more =/ What else is there to say? Blackbeard's fruit is supposed to be unique, it has been presented to us as such… it just doesn't feel very likely that there'll be another one capable of doing the same thing.
I guess we can't finish this discussion then. I was hoping i'd missed something but just the fact that Blackbeard is supposed to have an unique fruit can't convince me. If i`m correct no one within CP9 (close to the goverment so likely to know a thing or two about that devil fruit book) knew which powers those devil fruits held, so it could be that the fruit wasnt in the book, and Blackbeard was wrong.
-
Awa=Soap.
No matter how Japanese you make your soap, you can't wash away an inherent power or ability. Nami had such a difficult time in that fight because she was taken to a state of cleanliness beyond normal human comprehension, but Kalifa didn't clean her knowledge of weather or combat something that would have been much more practical in a fight.
It's soap. Something we understand, not Darkness which is inherently an abstract thing.
So,@Coruscation:No, it almost certainly does not include Devil Fruit abilities.
-
Questions about the Yami Yami no Mi.
Blackbeard can't let attacks pass through him but he can absorb attacks with his darkness. I also saw somewhere that he absorbed Magellan's poison which blocked a gate. So if Blackbeard used his darkness in the right moment he could have absorbed Magellan's poison right?
And if Blackbeard surrounds himself with his darkness and sees the attack coming, could he absorb the attacks too? -
@ShenLong:
Questions about the Yami Yami no Mi.
Blackbeard can't let attacks pass through him but he can absorb attacks with his darkness. I also saw somewhere that he absorbed Magellan's poison which blocked a gate. So if Blackbeard used his darkness in the right moment he could have absorbed Magellan's poison right?
And if Blackbeard surrounds himself with his darkness and sees the attack coming, could he absorb the attacks too?I think that ability is to slow for that, just my first thoughts :P
-
I think devil fruits have minds of their own. I don't think it was a coincidence that BB got the yami yami no mi by murdering someone.
-
I think devil fruits have minds of their own. I don't think it was a coincidence that BB got the yami yami no mi by murdering someone.
It's a Devil Fruit from the One Piece Universe not some legendary item from The Lord of the Rings :wassat: … I'm sorry I very much doubt that :getlost:
-
It's a Devil Fruit from the One Piece Universe not some legendary item from The Lord of the Rings :wassat: … I'm sorry I very much doubt that :getlost:
BB said the yami yami no mi was the most evil devil fruit ever and he obtained it by murdering somebody. There could be a link.
-
BB said the yami yami no mi was the most evil devil fruit ever and he obtained it by murdering somebody. There could be a link.
Yeah I get that an'all, but where do you get of saying that it might have a mind of its own? Oh and really I'm not mad just a little surprised about that comment
-
BB said the yami yami no mi was the most evil devil fruit ever and he obtained it by murdering somebody. There could be a link.
Didn't blackbeard say something about it being destined that he got that fruit?
or something about the fruit choosing him? -
Yeah I get that an'all, but where do you get of saying that it might have a mind of its own? Oh and really I'm not mad just a little surprised about that comment
I meant that maybe the DF's choose their owners. I can't think of a character who didn't seem like a good match for their DF, it's like they always compliment each other.
Didn't blackbeard say something about it being destined that he got that fruit?
or something about the fruit choosing him?Exactly.
-
I meant that maybe the DF's choose their owners. I can't think of a character who didn't seem like a good match for their DF, it's like they always compliment each other.
Exactly.
Well when you put it that way, sure I agree buut I'd rather think of it as destiny or something
… I don't think that the devil fruits have a say in this! -
Back to my question, if Blackbeard creates darkness around his body could he absorb incoming attacks?
-
Look, there is a big difference between Califas and Teachs devilfruits.
The Yami Yami was a well known fruit (duh, it's IN the book)
But Califas was not documented, no one knew what power it held, as stated by Spandam.So I see no problem in Califas fruit being able to take away devilfruit-abilities. We'll just never see it happen. A mans dream will never end.
Who exactly is Mumbo?
It's OFFICIAL, UsoppXNami 4ever.
-
@ShenLong:
Back to my question, if Blackbeard creates darkness around his body could he absorb incoming attacks?
Please stop reposting your questions if people dont respond to them or you dont get the information you like. I`ve asked you this before but you hardly seem to listen.
Its fine to ask questions but dont force it onto people.
-
Please stop reposting your questions if people dont respond to them or you dont get the information you like. I`ve asked you this before but you hardly seem to listen.
Its fine to ask questions but dont force it onto people.
I agree but since he allready asked I will say my opinion once more! (err… I think I allready posted it... I was going to anyway!)
I personally think that is not possible beacause of the speed of the ability, I mean it seems pretty slow, otherwise he would have done it allready, but than again one never knows til Oda sings
-
@Sonic:
Look, there is a big difference between Califas and Teachs devilfruits.
The Yami Yami was a well known fruit (duh, it's IN the book)
But Califas was not documented, no one knew what power it held, as stated by Spandam.So I see no problem in Califas fruit being able to take away devilfruit-abilities. We'll just never see it happen. A mans dream will never end.
It is soap…............
-
It is soap…............
This is One Piece we're talking about not reality! Don't mix those things up, you'll be put in a home!! Only way to know is if Oda starts talking about it,
but everybody oughta know that…yes, it was said that the ability wa able to erase everything even strength, body curves and so on, why not devil fruit powers we never saw it tested, nothing was known about it until she actually ate it and started using it's power, and as has allready been said before:
we will probably never know, since Califa is probably never going to appear again in the story so this whole topic may as well be useless!My name is Dracule Mihawk!! It's too soon for you to die. Discover yourself. See the world!! And grow strong, Zoro!!! However long it may take… I shall await you at the top. Strive with your whole heart and mind to best this blade, fierce one!!! Strive to surpass me, Roronoa Zoro!!!
-
we will probably never know, since Califa is probably never going to appear again in the story so this whole topic may as well be useless!
Yeah, just like Jango, Fullbody, Hatchan, Laboon, Crocodile, Mr. 1, Mr. 2, Mr. 3 and Buggy never appeared again.
Oh.
Do you even know One Piece?
-
Yeah, just like Jango, Fullbody, Hatchan, Laboon, Crocodile, Mr. 1, Mr. 2, Mr. 3 and Buggy never appeared again.
Oh.
Do you even know One Piece?
Ok, than let me put it this way, she probably wouldn't appear without the whole fucking CP9 idiots to be there too and that I think is unrealistic, it is just my opinion as I'm sure I've said before and don't bother trying to argue back, cause I'm not going to change it!
edit Califa as a character is just not a good enough of a character (she's boring) to all of a sudden appear again. -
Ok, than let me put it this way, she probably wouldn't appear without the whole fucking CP9 idiots to be there too and that I think is unrealistic, it is just my opinion as I'm sure I've said before and don't bother trying to argue back, cause I'm not going to change it!
edit Califa as a character is just not a good enough of a character (she's boring) to all of a sudden appear again.Oda had a whole Cover Story arc on the CP9 that's how we're sure they'll be
showing up again and that's the relation to all the other characters InvaderP
mentioned. They all had coverstorys and they all showed up again.
-
Oda had a whole Cover Story arc on the CP9 that's how we're sure they'll be
showing up again and that's the relation to all the other characters InvaderP
mentioned. They all had coverstorys and they all showed up again.
Yeah but I was talking about them meeting the crew, I wouldn't like it :sad:
-
This is One Piece we're talking about not reality! Don't mix those things up, you'll be put in a home!! Only way to know is if Oda starts talking about it,
but everybody oughta know that…yes, it was said that the ability wa able to erase everything even strength, body curves and so on, why not devil fruit powers we never saw it tested, nothing was known about it until she actually ate it and started using it's power, and as has allready been said before:
we will probably never know, since Califa is probably never going to appear again in the story so this whole topic may as well be useless!Some real life limits apply in One Piece others don't but others don't.
-
Some real life limits apply in One Piece others don't but others don't.
Well this one sure doesn't, soap in real life doesn't take away your strenght and body curves and so on and so forth but it does with that Devil Fruit power!
My name is Dracule Mihawk!! It's too soon for you to die. Discover yourself. See the world!! And grow strong, Zoro!!! However long it may take… I shall await you at the top. Strive with your whole heart and mind to best this blade, fierce one!!! Strive to surpass me, Roronoa Zoro!!!
-
Well this one sure doesn't, soap in real life doesn't take away your strenght and body curves and so on and so forth but it does with that Devil Fruit power!
Yeah and most two and a half foot long pieces of rubber (roughly Luffy's arm) can't be stretched forty feet.
-
The two of you are currently arguing for the same side without noticing.
Anyway I think its possible we'll see them again, like with some baroque works guys. Off course CP9 will not be redeemed but will remain as baddys
-
I can understand the soap idea since it's supposed to extract things like strength from your body. So in theory df extraction might also be possible. It's possible but will probably never occur.
-
I can understand the soap idea since it's supposed to extract things like strength from your body. So in theory df extraction might also be possible. It's possible but will probably never occur.
My point exactly, Thank you
-
The two of you are currently arguing for the same side without noticing.
Anyway I think its possible we'll see them again, like with some baroque works guys. Off course CP9 will not be redeemed but will remain as baddys
I was simply showing how rules in the real world are sometimes the same as onepiece and sometimes different.
Also soap doesn't really extract but take away.
-
It really depends on the level of training and utilization skills of the user on whether or not they flesh out the full capabilities and capacity of their devil fruit's power; if they fail to put enough time, effort, and thought into harnessing the true potential of their DF, then they end up being the ones put at disadvantage when faced with stronger opponents.
Nevertheless, Califa just barely consumed her fruit that day, so her experience and adroitness with her DF should've been insanely low; if we were ever to see her again, she would most likely be a lot more powerful (although I doubt she would last that long against Nami either way, since, well, she's just that weak in general).
-
It's not about "training" anything since the Bara Fruit permanently changed his body into what that specific Devil Fruit entails, and it specifically referred to splitting being done from sharp objects. Buggy consciously splitting up parts of himself in order to avoid blunt attacks like he's done against Luffy and others would fall under the control aspect of his Devil Fruit.
You'd be mistaken here since seastone does in fact shut down Power Users' abilities in addition to weakening them when contact is made with it. It's why Wiper's Reject Dial was able to actually damage Ener in the first place, the seastone caused him to stop being a lightningman. It's why Daz Bones was able to be made to bleed by a simple strike during his reintroduction at Impel Down. While imprisoned and in seastone cuffs he wasn't a blademan anymore who had a body that was essentially steel. It's why Marco couldn't utilize the blue flames used for healing off damage once Onigumo got them on him during the war, as soon as they were attached he wasn't a phoenixman.
What you're thinking of is being submerged in water. We already know that it doesn't inhibit abilities, just the Power User's control over them.
Also again, Luffy isn't immune punches he's just very resistant to blunt attacks. Ace, Sabo and Lucci have shown us that isn't the case. There's at least one other example too but those should be enough.
Yea i know hes resistant not immune. Was just easier to say. =)
We have no reason to believe being submerged in water is any different from seastone handcufs. Seastone doesnt change your fundamental nature. It just inhibits DF use. Enel's DF was inhibited so he couldnt turn into his element or create it. If Das Bones was hit while wearing seastone then that means hes not MADE of blades just that he can TURN into blades.
But we have seen Luffy underwater and he was still fully rubber. We have seen several times where smoker put his jutte on him and never did luffy claim to no longer be rubber. Same in Crocs cage. Its just because the fact that he is rubber, head to toe and all his organs as well, that seastone drains almost all of his energy.
-
Luffy doesn't really take any damage from blunt attacks. Feeling pain isn't the same as being damaged. Kizaru's kicks and Moria's punch failed to do any real damage to him so calling it an immunity sounds right. Calling it a resistance makes it sound like some damage is getting through. The most a real strong blunt attack does to Luffy is squeeze and pinch his nerves but he'll keep getting up no matter how hard the blow or how many.
Yea i know hes resistant not immune. Was just easier to say. =)
Ah alright then.
We have no reason to believe being submerged in water is any different from seastone handcufs. Seastone doesnt change your fundamental nature. It just inhibits DF use. Enel's DF was inhibited so he couldnt turn into his element or create it. If Das Bones was hit while wearing seastone then that means hes not MADE of blades just that he can TURN into blades.
A logias default state is their element so Ener no longer being a lightningman while contact with seastone is made does in fact show just that.
With Daz Bones, we've been shown him getting taken by surprise with one or more of Zoro's attacks during their fight yet still couldn't be cut because of his body being permanently changed into a blademan. I mentioned awhile before in this thread the little scuffle between him and Bentham back at Spider's Cafe where the former was sent flying back into a wall and it was cut into perfect square pieces as a result.
But we have seen Luffy underwater and he was still fully rubber. We have seen several times where smoker put his jutte on him and never did luffy claim to no longer be rubber. Same in Crocs cage. Its just because the fact that he is rubber, head to toe and all his organs as well, that seastone drains almost all of his energy.
We've been outright shown the differences between the two, I've already given an example of seastone above and of both in former posts so I don't think it bears repeating.
And we know Luffy knows that seastone is capable of doing such a thing so why would he make statements like that, it's why he reacts the way he does everytime Smoker has used the jutte on him. It isn't like Ambition or the Impact and Reject Dials that Luffy had no knowledge about them at all or how they were able to hurt him so much despite being a rubberman.
-
Vanessa, what do you make of seastone sometimes immobilizing DF users and sometimes not? It does to Luffy, as we've seen with Smoker, and we saw it with Enel as well. But lots of people have wore cuffs (Marco, Robin, Daz) and not actually been immobilized, just had their powers inhibited. Is it due to the cuffs intentionally being made with a lower concentration / whatever so that DF users wearing them don't have to be carried around? That seems logical to me, but I hope it'll be formally explained sometime (I think I had a discussion on this with brennen sometime back, actually, but I don't remember if we reached any kind of real conclusion).
-
We know that seastone can be tampered with.
Things like cuffs seem to be solely for shutting down abilities and weakening them only a little. It's why Robin felt the way she did after the cuffs she had on were taken off by Franky. The island clouds in Skypeia themselves contain seastone yet none of the Power Users up there were affected. The few times we've seen seastone used as a weapon it weakened them considerably along with shutting down abilties like the seastone Wiper had in his skates and the jutte with Smoker obviously.
-
Yeah, it's likely the case. Knowing that it can be worked with despite its hardness makes me hope that Franky will incorporate it into himself, replacing the by this point of the series somewhat fragile steel. He'd become the perfect DF-counter with seastone all over his body and on his fists.
-
Vanessa, what do you make of seastone sometimes immobilizing DF users and sometimes not? It does to Luffy, as we've seen with Smoker, and we saw it with Enel as well. But lots of people have wore cuffs (Marco, Robin, Daz) and not actually been immobilized, just had their powers inhibited. Is it due to the cuffs intentionally being made with a lower concentration / whatever so that DF users wearing them don't have to be carried around? That seems logical to me, but I hope it'll be formally explained sometime (I think I had a discussion on this with brennen sometime back, actually, but I don't remember if we reached any kind of real conclusion).
We know that seastone can be tampered with.
Things like cuffs seem to be solely for shutting down abilities and weakening them only a little. It's why Robin felt the way she did after the cuffs she had on were taken off by Franky. The island clouds in Skypeia themselves contain seastone yet none of the Power Users up there were affected. The few times we've seen seastone used as a weapon it weakened them considerably along with shutting down abilties like the seastone Wiper had in his skates and the jutte with Smoker obviously.
Yeah, it's likely the case. Knowing that it can be worked with despite its hardness makes me hope that Franky will incorporate it into himself, replacing the by this point of the series somewhat fragile steel. He'd become the perfect DF-counter with seastone all over his body and on his fists.
It seems too much effort to assume that every cuff, cage, or net made out of seastone might be of a differernt consentration or consistency. Especially considering we havent heard any information to imply it.
The reason the seastone effected luffy so much is because he is rubber. Always rubber. People like robin or marco or even enel arent always their power. Theirfore the seastone basically seems to weaken the DF so much that it cant be used. However, this cant happen to luffy so he just gets extremly weak. Also, since Das Bones was not shown being this weak or fatigued with cuffs on we can assume he is not ALWAYS blades.
When touched by seastone luffy claimed it was like being in water. So I think my assumption that their is no difference between water and seastone would be correct.
-
When touched by seastone luffy claimed it was like being in water. So I think my assumption that their is no difference between water and seastone would be correct.
But how do you explain Smoker's jutte hurting Luffy in the war, then? Or Enel being immobilized by seastone? There's an internal inconsistency there if you assume that all seastone-related objects are the same: Daz was not paralyzed by it, Robin wasn't, but Enel was. Even if you disqualify Luffy it doesn't add up. So it really makes the most sense that the cuffs are intentionally created to only inhibit the power but not sap so much of the user's strength that they can't move.
-
But how do you explain Smoker's jutte hurting Luffy in the war, then? Or Enel being immobilized by seastone? There's an internal inconsistency there if you assume that all seastone-related objects are the same: Daz was not paralyzed by it, Robin wasn't, but Enel was. Even if you disqualify Luffy it doesn't add up. So it really makes the most sense that the cuffs are intentionally created to only inhibit the power but not sap so much of the user's strength that they can't move.
I dont remember smokers Jutte hurting luffy in the war. I remember it pinning him down because it has seastone on the end but not hurting him. If so please link it for me.
Enel was imobilized because he had seastone on him AND an entire full grown person in wiper. Plus all of wipers weapons. Considering that Enel was used to being weightless lightning (and he probably hasnt been physically touched in years) its safe to assume after adding wipers weight he would be immobilized as well as lose all his strength and fall to the ground (which he did).
I dont see how this is inconsistent.
-
It seems too much effort to assume that every cuff, cage, or net made out of seastone might be of a differernt consentration or consistency. Especially considering we havent heard any information to imply it.
For who? You?
Because it really isn't, we were outright told the island clouds up in Skypeia are made up of and contain seastone yet no one ever had any problems. Why you keep ignoring that and the other differences shown between the different things that have used seastone all just to lazily attempt to fit your point is beyond me.
The reason the seastone effected luffy so much is because he is rubber. Always rubber. People like robin or marco or even enel arent always their power. Theirfore the seastone basically seems to weaken the DF so much that it cant be used. However, this cant happen to luffy so he just gets extremly weak. Also, since Das Bones was not shown being this weak or fatigued with cuffs on we can assume he is not ALWAYS blades.
Robin is a create/control paramecia, her body wasn't changed in any way so there'd be nothing for her body to change once seastone is put on her. It shut down her Hana Fruit so she could no longer create and subseuently control any body parts. She isn't a become/control paramecia like Luffy, Buggy or Daz Bones who instead are no longer whatever their particular Devil Fruit entails.
Ener I've already explained to you multiple times yet you haven't addressed it. Repeating "lol no he ain't" isn't a good way to go about it, and Daz Bones I've also done the same and given you examples yet still nothing form you there as well.
Hell even going by your view then why are Buggy and Alvida just fine after being covered in a seastone net back in Loguetown. If all seastone fit what you've been trying to say then they'd both be affected just as badly as Luffy yet they're simply disabled because their abilities are shut down and aren't breathing heavily, panting or anything else. Buggy is explaining to Alvida what kind of net they've been caught in with no problems.
When touched by seastone luffy claimed it was like being in water. So I think my assumption that their is no difference between water and seastone would be correct.
Except you know, the differences have been plainly shown, as in it actually happening as opposed to one character saying how it "feels."
So yeah no you're gonna need to try again.
I dont remember smokers Jutte hurting luffy in the war. I remember it pinning him down because it has seastone on the end but not hurting him. If so please link it for me.
Chapter 559:
!
You're only thinking of what happens right after the above when he gets pinned and later saved by Hancock.Enel was imobilized because he had seastone on him AND an entire full grown person in wiper. Plus all of wipers weapons. Considering that Enel was used to being weightless lightning (and he probably hasnt been physically touched in years) its safe to assume after adding wipers weight he would be immobilized as well as lose all his strength and fall to the ground (which he did).
And none of this changes that Ener stopped being a lightningman, which again is his default state.
Who cares about crap like Wiper's weight when the point I've been making is that the seastone shut down his ability. Hell, all you've really tried to explain just now with this is why he fell to the ground.
-
For who? You?
Because it really isn't, we were outright told the island clouds up in Skypeia are made up of and contain seastone yet no one ever had any problems. Why you keep ignoring that and the other differences shown between the different things that have used seastone all just to lazily attempt to fit your point is beyond me.
Robin is a create/control paramecia, her body wasn't changed in any way so there'd be nothing for her body to change once seastone is put on her. It shut down her Hana Fruit so she could no longer create and subseuently control any body parts. She isn't a become/control paramecia like Luffy, Buggy or Daz Bones who instead are no longer whatever their particular Devil Fruit entails.
Ener I've already explained to you multiple times yet you haven't addressed it. Repeating "lol no he ain't" isn't a good way to go about it, and Daz Bones I've also done the same and given you examples yet still nothing form you there as well.
Hell even going by your view then why are Buggy and Alvida just fine after being covered in a seastone net back in Loguetown. If all seastone fit what you've been trying to say then they'd both be affected just as badly as Luffy yet they're simply disabled because their abilities are shut down and aren't breathing heavily, panting or anything else. Buggy is explaining to Alvida what kind of net they've been caught in with no problems.
Except you know, the differences have been plainly shown, as in it actually happening as opposed to one character saying how it "feels."
So yeah no you're gonna need to try again.
Chapter 559:
! http://i30.mangareader.net/one-piece/559/one-piece-833156.jpg
You're only thinking of what happens right after the above when he gets pinned and later saved by Hancock.And none of this changes that Ener stopped being a lightningman, which again is his default state.
Who cares about crap like Wiper's weight when the point I've been making is that the seastone shut down his ability. Hell, all you've really tried to explain just now with this is why he fell to the ground.
If what you were talking about sky island was true then luffy wouldnt have been able to move at all the entire time he was up there. WHen luffy is in crocs cage he loses power just being around it. So if all of sky island was made of kairoseki (even in tiny amounts) the aggregate effect would incapacitate him.
I am saying that buggy and das bones did not become their DF in the way that Luffy did.
I explained why enel fell down. Because he was weakend and had added weight on him. I havent seen anywhere that says logia users bodies are permanetly altered in the same way luffy's is. I would say the fact that they can choose to be solid or intangible implies that their base state is their human body. As for Das Bones, he was up walking around slaving away on level 4 with seastone cuffs on. If he was a permanetly altered body like Luffy there is no way he could have done that. He got hurt because he had cuffs on that kept him from turning into steel.
No if you read what i said then you would know that i dont think buggy is a permanantly altered DF user, like luffy. If he was he would have been weakend severly (yet he wasnt). Also, if he was permanantly altered then he would always be splitable making him immune to seastone because he could split and have it fall off him.
You make seastone act exactly like BBs fruit. You say it makes DF users like luffy bodies turn normal (aka no longer rubber). However, we know BBs yami yami is the only thing able to do that.
Yea we have seen the main char in water still being rubber. And we see him with seastone on him and says its just like being in water. Yet you completly discount it because you want to twist other things to your liking.
That picture doesnt show anything. Luffys face looks like rubber thats been hit hard like always. He was bleeding all thru the ID and MF arcs. Plus he has been punched and bled lots of times. We know hard physical punches still can hurt him.
I dont think lightning is his default state. How can you say someone who starts normal. Then Eats a logia df has a default state of the element or DF power? I would agree with it if the logia users couldnt turn solid. But they can. So you suggest that lightning would be his default normal state and solid human would be an altered state? That seems backwards.
-
If what you were talking about sky island was true then luffy wouldnt have been able to move at all the entire time he was up there. WHen luffy is in crocs cage he loses power just being around it. So if all of sky island was made of kairoseki (even in tiny amounts) the aggregate effect would incapacitate him.
But he in fact did, so you're wrong.
And Luffy didn't start feeling weak until he was actually touching the bars or hit by the jutte. Hell Smoker was just fine all throughout their imprisonment at Rain Dinners.
Try again.
I am saying that buggy and das bones did not become their DF in the way that Luffy did.
The comic shows otherwise so you know…you're wrong again.
I know I'm asking too much of you at this point but actually read my former posts concerning this.
I explained why enel fell down. Because he was weakend and had added weight on him. I havent seen anywhere that says logia users bodies are permanetly altered in the same way luffy's is. I would say the fact that they can choose to be solid or intangible implies that their base state is their human body. As for Das Bones, he was up walking around slaving away on level 4 with seastone cuffs on. If he was a permanetly altered body like Luffy there is no way he could have done that. He got hurt because he had cuffs on that kept him from turning into steel.
I'll even be nice and give you specific examples with logias that lean towards the element being the default state:
-Ener was attacked by Kamakiri while asleep and remained a lightningman. And he was dead after being hit with the Reject Dial yet lightning coming from Ener was what restarted his heart.
-Ace wouldn't have had to restart on making Oars III's hat multiple times due to burning it on prior attempts. If fire wasn't the default state that wouldn't ever have been a problem.
-Teach taking more damage than normal all the time from attacks wouldn't be seen as such a risk if he could just switch it off.
None of those would be the case were their element not the default state. You are wrong. Again.
No if you read what i said then you would know that i dont think buggy is a permanantly altered DF user, like luffy. If he was he would have been weakend severly (yet he wasnt). Also, if he was permanantly altered then he would always be splitable making him immune to seastone because he could split and have it fall off him.
See above.
Your whole argument against mine is "IF IT WAS MY WAY IT WOULD HAVE HAPPENED THIS WAY" when all signs point to it not being your way and it not happening the way you mention.
You make seastone act exactly like BBs fruit. You say it makes DF users like luffy bodies turn normal (aka no longer rubber). However, we know BBs yami yami is the only thing able to do that.
The Yami Fruit doesn't weaken Power Users, only seastone does that in addition to shutting down abilities.
It's why Newgate kicked Teach's ass and slashed a big wound into his shoulder with the bisento even while the latter shut down the Gura Fruit with Dark Vortex
Yea we have seen the main char in water still being rubber. And we see him with seastone on him and says its just like being in water. Yet you completly discount it because you want to twist other things to your liking.
Luffy said Lucci's Rokuougan felt just like the Impact Dial. Are you saying those two things work exactly the same even though one is a tool and another is a technique.
My point was a character mentioning how it feels, what you mentioned, isn't infallible. On the other hand I've brought up multiple examples where we're outright shown the differences by how characters have been shown to react to both water and seastone. I'm even giving you a comparison in dialouge with the same character to show that using such things isn't an absolute.
You're the one ignoring anything that doesn't coincide with your view, which is a lot.
That picture doesnt show anything. Luffys face looks like rubber thats been hit hard like always. He was bleeding all thru the ID and MF arcs. Plus he has been punched and bled lots of times. We know hard physical punches still can hurt him.
Luffy was hit that specific time with the jutte, he points it out right after.
!
Don't change the argument just because you can't refute mine.I dont think lightning is his default state. How can you say someone who starts normal. Then Eats a logia df has a default state of the element or DF power? I would agree with it if the logia users couldnt turn solid. But they can. So you suggest that lightning would be his default normal state and solid human would be an altered state? That seems backwards.
So…nothing then, awesome. Already addressed above yadda yadda yadda.
You're done, bring something new that adds to the discussion or don't bother responding.
-
http://www.newporkcity.net/npcforum/images/smilies/vanghoul.gif
Why the confused face? Luffy is immune to blunt attacks not just resistant. Show one example where Luffy was actually damaged by Lucci, Sabo, or Ace? You counting times when a sharp kick has made some blood fly out of his face? Why would Luffy, Chopper, and Sanji be so shocked when Luffy does take damage with blunt attacks if they have damaged him before?
