I just realised that we have seen Rokushiki's like techniques for a long time in the manga, even before the SH going to the grand line.
Captain Kuro used "soru"
Zeff used "Rankyaku" to extinguish pearl's bombs
Arlong used "shingan" (with his nose)
Zoro used "soru" at wiskey peak
Zoro used "rankyaku" at edit Skypia, not EL, sorry /edit
and maybe there are more that I don't recall.
can someone please list the eight forms and say what they do please. cos i really need to learn them
can someone please list the eight forms and say what they do please. cos i really need to learn them
Six forms actually, that's why it's rokushiki.
Geppou - the person using this can can walk on air, probably used to escape after the assassination or quick extraction in case of overwhelming odds
Soru - allows for very quick movement, probably used to close with the target and avoid pursuers
Tekkai - the user's body becomes as hard as iron, probably used as a defense mechanism against bodyguards
Kami-e - the least seen Rokushiki technique where the user's body becomes like a piece of paper, another defense mechanism and probably used when Tekkai is ineffective
Shigan - the user stabs somebody with their finger, probably a localized form of Tekkai when it comes down to it, probably used for a confirmed kill
Rankakyu - the user uses a very powerful kick which generates a wave of air that cuts things, probably used for crowd control and to clear out obstacles
Nero used yonshiki by the way as he was unable to do either Tekkai or Shigan.
I just realised that we have seen Rokushiki's like techniques for a long time in the manga, even before the SH going to the grand line.
Captain Kuro used "soru"
Zeff used "Rankyaku" to extinguish pearl's bombs
Arlong used "shingan" (with his nose)
Zoro used "soru" at wiskey peak
Zoro used "rankyaku" at edit Skypia, not EL, sorry /editand maybe there are more that I don't recall.
1. Kuro's "Nukiashi" is probably not the same as Soru. He could just be using one sudden thrust of the legs to move… But, in the anime, an interesting point is brought up to support this: When performing Nukiashi, Kuro taps the ground repeatedly, like what CP9 does. So, if we go with the anime as "canon" or even "pseudo-canon" here, then yes, I'd say that Kuro knows Soru in some shape (even if it's just an improvisation).
2. That wasn't really Rankyaku: If it was, Zeff would have cut the pearls instead of just extinguishing the blaze, right? Back in the days of "Red-Leg Zeff", I don't doubt that he could have had a distance attack like Rankyaku. If all goes well, his disciple may showcase this move.
3. I... really think it was just Arlong poking with his nose. Shark ON Darts is a lunging move that makes use of his nose, but it doesn't harden it to the point where it can puncture -- it already CAN.
4. Ah... Where was this? Back at Whiskey Peak, Zoro just owned the hell out of Baroque Works, using his OWN speed. If I had to venture a guess, I'd say it was a simple movement that he used to slash all those people with Yubashiri. If he knew Soru, then wouldn't he have used it during other times?
5. You must be thinking of the "____ Pound Cannon" attacks, I presume. Well, there's a difference between "Rankyaku" and "Thirty-Six Pound Cannon" -- namely, that one is performed as a martial art, and that the other is a sword technique. They both cause "kamaitachi" -- a phenomenon of rapid movement that cuts -- but the medium by which they do so is very different.
Technically, GoAnderson, the term is "rokushiki like", so obviously it will not be exactly the same as Rokushiki. Therefore, I think things like pound cannons and Kuro's moves are valid. Heck, Luffy even defeated tekkai when he fought don krieg, although back then he needed many hits to take it apart. Arlong's move is also likewise classable as a kind of appendage-gun (no dirty thoughts here) since it does exactly what a shigan does - pierces. These rokushiki like techniques may well have set the SHs up for this big battle.
So I guess those feet dials that those warriors used in Skypiea can equate with Geppou.
If all my talents and powers were taken away from me by some inscrutable Providence, and I had my choice of keeping but one, I would unhesitatingly ask to be allowed to keep the Power of Speaking, for through it, I would quickly recover all the rest.
–Daniel Webster
So I guess those feet dials that those warriors used in Skypiea can equate with Geppou.
Not really. Dials are no part of the body so it´s not like the Skypiean´s use a technique similar to Geppo. If that would count then guns equate with Shigan.
I just realised that we have seen Rokushiki's like techniques for a long time in the manga, even before the SH going to the grand line.
Captain Kuro used "soru"
From the explanation, Soru is like a compacted dash. Notice how they always stop after a short moment. Kuro's thing was more like a really fast run. Fast to the point where he just spread his claws and hoped for the best because he couldn't even see. So here it basically seems like comparing Mike Tyson to Maurice Green.
Zeff used "Rankyaku" to extinguish pearl's bombs
Eh, I'll give you this one. But it was something like Rankyaku or an extremely weak one, not a real Rankyaku.
Arlong used "shingan" (with his nose)
Arlong's nose was designed as a weapon. It's no more like Shigan than Crocodile's hook is.
Zoro used "soru" at wiskey peak
Zoro used "rankyaku" at edit Skypia, not EL, sorry /editand maybe there are more that I don't recall.
Uh, where did you see these? Zoro never showed off that much leg power.
Not really. Dials are no part of the body so it´s not like the Skypiean´s use a technique similar to Geppo. If that would count then guns equate with Shigan.
Fair enough, I see your point. I guess at best it can only be a substitute like when Nero whipped out his pistol to compensate for the inability to use Shigan.
I think the "Zoro's soru at Whisky Peak" he talks about is Zoro's fast movement at the beginning of the fight. In a moment, he's on the rooftop while Baroque Works agents point their guns to him. In the other, he's gone, and appears in the middle of the crowd. Then, as the agents shot themselves while trying to hit Zoro, he's gone again, and his blade is cutting through Igaram's hair.
Here it is. Read the next pages as well to see it in detail.
Yeah i Thought about that too Deicide. And while this is Soru-like (and now we've seen he can keep up with Soru) I can't say it was the real thing, they were at a completely different league, Zoro speed then was quick enough to portray that effect but today he probably is much quicker.
well I never intended to say that they use the exact sames techniques but that the effect of the techniques isn't something new. maybe Rokushiki is the "perfect" basic of all martial arts but it's not new to the SH. it's not surprising that Luffy can learn Soru, Sanji rankakyu etc. and I wouldn't be suprised to see Luffy block a Shigan by a "gomu gomu no shield" like he did block Arlong.
d3adpool, you say Zoro can keep up with soru, so that mean he can do an equal "soru like" technique, that's exactly my point.
well I never intended to say that they use the exact sames techniques but that the effect of the techniques isn't something new. maybe Rokushiki is the "perfect" basic of all martial arts but it's not new to the SH. it's not surprising that Luffy can learn Soru, Sanji rankakyu etc. and I wouldn't be suprised to see Luffy block a Shigan by a "gomu gomu no shield" like he did block Arlong.
d3adpool, you say Zoro can keep up with soru, so that mean he can do an equal "soru like" technique, that's exactly my point.
You technically DID insinuate that, by saying "___ used ___" in your initial comparison, but whatever. My apologies for the late reply; I'm on lunch now.
Point a) Luffy & Soru: Even if he's usually a braindead twit, much as I hate to admit it, Luffy is a combat genius, basically. His finishing moves against Croc and Enel show that he's constantly creating new ideas, and of course, there is also the mysterious "Gear Second." So, as a combat genius – work with me, here -- Luffy's style may be like Kenshin's, against Rokushiki: Watch, and then follow, predict, and disrupt an enemy's formation. He diverted the Rankyaku from Blueno by the near-end of their fight, so it probably isn't too much of a leap to say that he watched and NOTICED Soru's secret -- so, theoretically, if he figured out how the CP9ers did Geppou, or even Rankyaku, he could mimic them, to a degree. Am I making any sense to anyone (excluding myself, which is iffy)?
Point b) Sanji & Rankyaku: When you get right down to it, all we really know about Rankyaku is that it's an extremely fast kick, quick enough to slice open a gap in the air it passes through. Sanji's specialties are kicks, and so seeing him pull out a similar move wouldn't be too surprising. I'd just be dubious that he would intentionally go all-out on a lady, even one trying to kill him.
Point c) Luffy & Shigan: Yeah, I see what you're talking about here, definitely. The basic "style" of both "Shark On Darts" and "Shigan" is a thrusting movement, and so going by my logic, it should be possible to keep a Shigan from piercing using the Shield technique. However, remember the basic force behind the attack: If Lucci brings out a, say, 50mph Shigan, then it would have the basic effect of running his ass over. Then again, why would he use Shield, if he knows that it will be mostly ineffective -- i.e., the momentum behind the attack is more dangerous to a rubberman than a piercing strike (unless in Model Leopard) -- and why would he even get a chance to stretch his fingers? Lucci isn't the sort to wait around, necessarily.
Point d) Zoro & Soru: My guess is that the Whiskey Peak bounty hunters were just so damn inept they couldn't follow the ascended movements of a real warrior. Going on that theory, Zoro wouldn't know Soru PERSAY, but he would, instead, just know how to move his legs right for the best effort; unless he sees and mimics Soru like Luffy did (a possibility in its own right), he probably won't reach that level of speed unless he comes up with his own method. Then there's the fact that he's presently handcuffed to someone, which pretty much negates that entirely.
d3adpool, you say Zoro can keep up with soru, so that mean he can do an equal "soru like" technique, that's exactly my point.
actually keeping up and performing isn't the same. He can see the movement and in this case he managed to defend himself but I'm not sure he can perform Soru like Luffy can. Altough I can imagine somewhere in the naer future Kaku performing a Soru and Zoro snaping midway with the blade aimed to Kaku's neck.
Not really. Dials are no part of the body so it´s not like the Skypiean´s use a technique similar to Geppo. If that would count then guns equate with Shigan.
That's technically not wrong, is it? Shigan is "Finger Gun"; it's a martial art that attempts to deliver the same amount of damage as a gun using a different medium. The best example I can think of at this moment is how Goku in Dragonball manages to accomplish flight; unlike his friends, Goku hadn't mastered the flying technique by the end of the final Tenkaichibudokai, but he accomplished the same move using his Kamehameha. In the first tournament of the series, Goku used both his tail and the Nimbus to accomplish the same, even though those are not martial art techniques.
Of course shigan means finger gun but it still is two different things which have the same effect. The one is a constructed weapon and the other thing is martial arts technique as you said yourself.
And same applies to the dials in Skypiea. They are not a technique the human body performs but just are a gadget that can have the same effect as Geppo.
You technically DID insinuate that, by saying "___ used ___" in your initial comparison, but whatever.
Well sorry about that but I'm French : my english is far from perfect. *just updated my profil as a reminder for next time :happy: *
for me, shigan is not like a gun for 2 reason : 1) it's power depend of the user. 2) it's a close combat skill : you can counter it.
well so far, I just think rokushiki is just a matter of power of the user not techniques. it's a way to use power a little more efficiently and that's all. so, and that's only my opinion, I still think that zoro used a soru-like technique : he used his speed to vanish. and Arlong a Shigan : he used a hard part of his body to strike at great speed (don't understand me wrong here… )
People often assume martial arts exhibitions are done with pure power. But even for Oda's world, why is it that Calipha can do Rokushiki and Sanji currently can't, when it's almost clear that he's physically stronger than her?
Originally Posted by Battle Franky
Bad move, bub!
People often assume martial arts exhibitions are done with pure power. But even for Oda's world, why is it that Calipha can do Rokushiki and Sanji currently can't, when it's almost clear that he's physically stronger than her?
Probably because it requires a specialized technique on top of sheer power.. I don't think anyone ever taught Sanji the techniques.
That's my point, haha.
Gah my quote function isn't working
"well so far, I just think rokushiki is just a matter of power of the user not techniques. it's a way to use power a little more efficiently and that's all. so, and that's only my opinion, I still think that zoro used a soru-like technique : he used his speed to vanish. and Arlong a Shigan : he used a hard part of his body to strike at great speed (don't understand me wrong here… )"
Yes I believe they are a way to use power more effectively, but it isn't completly dependant on how strong the user is. Of course it helps to be stronger, but I think that even someone who isn't as strong as CP9 could learn them through perserverance. They wouldn't be as strong of course, but they would still be able to use them.
Zoro using Soru? No I don't think so. He's able to move naturally fast. If Zoro learns any it will be Tekkai.
"d3adpool, you say Zoro can keep up with soru, so that mean he can do an equal "soru like" technique, that's exactly my point."
This doesn't mean Zoro could also move at that speed. Luffy could keep up with Kuro and he couldn't move as fast as him.
Arlong using Shigan? No. His nose is sharp by nature. That with the speed he was going means he impales someone.
The only arguments of yours I find possible are Kuro using Soru and Zeff using Rankakyu.
Kuro just because he can move at speed that could be a form of Soru.
And Zeff because he did kick the flames out. However, this would be a weaker version, because as someone else said if it was the actual strength of Rankakyu, the pearls would have been cut in half.
But even for Oda's world, why is it that Calipha can do Rokushiki and Sanji currently can't, when it's almost clear that he's physically stronger than her?
How is that clear? Because he's a man? Don't judge entirely on appearances or makeup; take Ms. Monday, whom was literally bulging with muscles but was easily overpowered by Zoro. Or, Luffy, whom doesn't necessarily appear muscular but is capable of absurd and almost physically defying strength. It's not just Califa's ability to perform the Rokushiki techniques; her douriki indicates that there's considerable power behind her attacks. Though lower than everyone else, she's still a superhuman.
…
Also, just to note, "Soru" is just the name of how the high speed Rokushiki ability is initiated (namely, the ten kicks); the speeds of "Soru" are different. Luffy could keep up with Blueno even when Blueno was using "Soru", but the reverse is not true; Luffy was not only able to perform the technique, he was able to outrun Blueno, who likely trained with the other CP9 agents in perfecting the technique.
How is that clear?
I may be jumping the gun, but I'd bet all I have that without her whip and DF, if Sanji fought his hardest, he'd beat her into the ground.
Because he's a man? Don't judge entirely on appearances or makeup; take Ms. Monday, whom was literally bulging with muscles but was easily overpowered by Zoro.
Contradicted yourself there….
It's not a sexist belief that men are stronger, it's pure, natural fact. Oda even points it out with Tashigi, Kuina's speech, and Calipha's douriki.
Or, Luffy, whom doesn't necessarily appear muscular but is capable of absurd and almost physically defying strength.
Muscular appearances don't really give an accurate portrayal of strength, either. And, of course, in OP strength is amplified beyond human levels for a good amount of characters.
It's not just Califa's ability to perform the Rokushiki techniques; her douriki indicates that there's considerable power behind her attacks. Though lower than everyone else, she's still a superhuman.
She's very strong, but it's not just physical technique, it's ability. I never said strength didn't factor in, but you can't accredit it all there because a lot of stronger characters we've seen can't use Rokushiki.
Same with Zoro and Tekkai. He wouldn't be able to do it just because of his strength level. Unless Oda flashes back to him doing endurance/resilience training with breathing techniques, or learns it through the "breath of all things" somehow.
Originally Posted by Battle Franky
Bad move, bub!
Contradicted yourself there….
It's not a sexist belief that men are stronger, it's pure, natural fact. Oda even points it out with Tashigi, Kuina's speech, and Calipha's douriki.
On average, men are built tougher and are stronger than women. That doesn't describe the distribution of this strength, though; how many women are going to be using their physical bodies, outside of athetics, for work? Califa is a supehuman, which puts her above 99% of the people (men and women included) in the One Piece world; sure, she's not as strong as Lucci, Kaku, and Blueno, but the difference in her power relative to theirs is not quite as defined as a superhuman versus a Marine trained marine grunt with a douriki of ten.
I cited Ms.Monday because she has a bunch of muscles but actually isn't very strong at all, not because she was a woman.
Muscular appearances don't really give an accurate portrayal of strength, either. And, of course, in OP strength is amplified beyond human levels for a good amount of characters.
This really only applies to cartoons; if people have muscles, those muscles are likely not just for show. Sure, the degree of muscles in certain areas are different (IE, the contendors for the "strongest men in the world" are really compact in their muscles builds, but are less "massive" than European body builders and less symmetric than American ones), but there's no way someone like Jackie Chan is going to overpower Arnold Schwarzenegger (when both men were in their prime).
Well if you assume that Rokushiki is just a style of martial arts, one assumes it's techniques follow the same rules as other styles. So anyone, really, could improvise similar techniques. What we're seeing is the similarity of fighting styles developed using the laws of physics in the OP world.
well voodzik I agree with that.
Rokushiki is a martial art style, no doubt about it. a simple and not a very elegant style. I mean : only 6 techniques. what made CP9 so strong is the training they did, not the style itself.
we can see similar techniques in OP but NOT EXACTLY THE SAMES. kickboxer's, karateka's, kung fu master's kicks are sightly diffÃ
rents but they still are kicks. of course Zoro cannot use Soru but I believe he use a technique of instant movement like Soru. a weaker one, maybe (or probably).
so my conclusion : some of the previous fights were "training" or "hints" for the SH to counter or even learn some Rokushiki.
