Isn't Pariston hiding a collection of Chimera Ants?
Hiatus x Hiatus III: Goodnight, Sweet Princes
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Isn't Pariston hiding a collection of Chimera Ants?
As well as become accused by the Zodiacs as the main reason behind the 18 missing Hunters since he took office
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As well as become accused by the Zodiacs as the main reason behind the 18 missing Hunters since he took office
Those suspicions some Zodiacs have doesn't justify his super-evil portrayal though. And the reason why Gin wants to stop him.
btw, I wonder how they happened to know who Pariston truly was since no one can read his mind as far as we know. Unless he screwed up hard on one of his lies before, I don't see how the Zodiacs know him.No one the out straight toys not only with people, but with their well being can be viewed in a good light.
yes, but what pushed Gin to think Pariston's plan was to be elected in order to unleash his ants somewhere to kill people (if I'm correct, he implied it was to make a massacre) for some reason?
As far as we know Pariston Hill is just like Don Juan. Not that he's fucking everyone and with the most number of persons, but that he's just joyfully playing. He could turn into killing and that wouldn't contradict his character at all, but I kind of missed the part when he was doing something really evil. -
What did you like in the ant arc?
The drama, the fights, how the King was Cell done right, Komugi, having the greatest lung capacicty in the world, even more than a whale, the plotting in general. It was all in all a very solid arc until the hiatus. At which point the long breaks and only getting a couple chapters at a time reeeeally emphasized and gave time to dwell on the weakpoints.
Anyone that got it in one go through the anime is going to have had a much, much better time.
But the anti-climatic (edit, so what basically I meant by anticlimactic was "thing that isn't solved as the rules of shonen manga (or fiction or whatever) require ) thing has ever been a thing right? Since the beginning. Kill not becoming a hunter. Killua and Gon stopping at some floor and not going to the top of the arena. The Troupe not being annihilated and Hisoka not having his fight. Last game of GI actually being a game (non a deathmatch) against Razor, when people were expecting something very lethal since no one had ever finished the game. Netero's total defeat, the nuke. No ants get killed by a human, they get poisoned. (and "mankind is bad" wasn't something pulled at the last moment with the narrator going all "jeez, some people are rich, others are poor, human bad!!", but it was a thing at least since Meruem killed Kim Jong-Un). Also, Gon finding his father just because he couldn't leave the room for bureaucratic reasons, while everyone was expecting a great challenge was great.
There's a difference between defying expectations and going against norms… and just using a cheat. Not getting to the top of the tower, not beating Hisoka in a rematch, those are things that go against shonen convention but aren't bad because of it. Gon practiced and practicec and practiced to do a one hand stand nen blast on Greed island. It never got mastered or used. That's defying expectations. It costs the story, and the actual result of the ending, nothing to have set you on a red herring. Since the actual climax of that arc involved plotting and strategy and using what talents they DID have and had already mastered and used, it was fine that the one build up wasn't used. The same thing happens over in Dragonball, where Goten's fusion doesn't defeat Buu, and Mystic Gohan doesn't beat Buu, so they get more and more desperate as the action rises until they get to the Spirit Bomb. It's fine to have things not work out or be unexpected, that's what's exciting.
If on the other hand, Gon had just faced the Bomber and then Kurapika appeared out of nowhere and stabbed him in the back and said his nen chains can kill anyone, not just spiders now, that'd be a cheat and a copout and horrible writing.
Does Togashi have to make the same amount of foreshadowing Eichiro Oda does to have any credits?
No, Oda's a master at dropping foreshadowing. But even he's definitely dropped the ball a few times. Togashi USED to be better about striking the balance of "unexpected result but fair", and he just hasn't the last few years.
(also btw, the DF awakening was kind of ass-pulled,
You mean the thing set up in Impel Down with the awakened zoan guards, six or seven years before Doflamingo did it? And that in turn was clearly what Chopper has accidentally done at Water 7, nearly a decade ago? Or that Crocodile had talked about to some degree back in ALabasta?
It was badly handled in Dofla's case, but the established basics were there.
Anyway, despite the lack of foreshadowing and the feeling of ass-pulling and the feeling of the author having no idea where he's leading us to, the manga still is good on many levels.
It is. I wouldn't keep reading it or stew on it so much if it wasn't. It's mostly the breaks that ruin it by forcing the audience to sit with the pacing. In an actual ongoing, anything awkward is moved on from the next week. Hunter, you get to dwell on its issues for 18 months.
When you say the asspull is comparable to Bleach and FairyTail, do you mean that HxH worths as much as FT ? no you don't.
Exactly. You wouldn't excuse the bad stories for pulling bad writing, so why do you excuse it when the better authors that you KNOW can do better, fail just as badly? That's the issue.
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yes, but what pushed Gin to think Pariston's plan was to be elected in order to unleash his ants somewhere to kill people (if I'm correct, he implied it was to make a massacre) for some reason?
As far as we know Pariston Hill is just like Don Juan. Not that he's fucking everyone and with the most number of persons, but that he's just joyfully playing. He could turn into killing and that wouldn't contradict his character at all, but I kind of missed the part when he was doing something really evil.He wanted to make the Hunter Exam, that is already pretty violent, even harsher if elected, he miss-assignment hunters during the Chimer Ant Arc in order to favor those in his faction, not only endangering the mission but risking innocent lives. With the Beyond announcement he forced the hand of the Hunter Association into remaking the exam in order to avoid his cronies or ants to pass the exam, 18 hunters just went missing with out a trace in the time he was vice-chairmen, so basicaly yeah he is "just" playing with the lives of others.
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I think the bomb and Gon transformation were fine. The poison was definitely an asspull. Alluka was an interesting idea but as soon as Killua became able to do wishes without paying it became a cheap device. Gon's hunter friend survival was definitely BS. And Hisoka vendetta towards the whole spiders seems gimmicky.
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Gon practiced and practiced and practiced to do a one hand stand nen blast on Greed island. It never got mastered or used. That's defying expectations. It costs the story, and the actual result of the ending, nothing to have set you on a red herring.
I don't remember that, what was it exactly?
btw, I've dropped DBZ after a few volumes so I never understand those comparisons.You mean the thing set up in Impel Down with the awakened zoan guards, six or seven years before Doflamingo did it? And that in turn was clearly what Chopper has accidentally done at Water 7, nearly a decade ago? Or that Crocodile had talked about to some degree back in ALabasta?
That, and Crocodile's relationship with WB.
Are you implying that Oda knew very well what awakening was since Alabasta (or Enies Lobby) ?I'm still calling it an asspull because it was ass-pulled during ID imo. Crocodile never mentioned it before, he had all the time to do so during Alabasta. He could have said –-something. But then suddenly in ID he goes "yeah, those guys are awakened zoans". And these zoans were very very weak though, compared to Doffy. I'm saying that the awakening is something pulled at the last moment, that Oda didn't know what it was before ImpelDown. Pre-gear2 Luffy defeated awakened-Crocodile (it's implied he was, but not 100% sure though) which is complete horseshit. Also he defeated some awakened-zoans with great ease in ID somehow. In other words Oda didn't know how powerful awakening was supposed to be until the last moment which makes a lot of things incoherent. And it's okay to have different levels of awakening, but two awakened person with one being pre-gear2Luffy-level and the other "gear4-level" ? I call BS.
This and fact that we never heard of his relation with WB before pushes me to believe that Crocodile wasn't supposed to be that big shot who was portrayed during Marineford.
Plus, while it's very clear what awakened zoans look like, and what awakened paramecia could pretty much do. The limit between awakening and non-awakening abilities are very blur for logias. Affect the environnement ? Crocodile could pretty much do that in Alabasta. Enel could hear everything around miles (haxed af), also he went all "god-level" when he started destroying the whole country like a mad men for the lulz. If he had appeared recently we would have all thought these were awakened abilities.
I'm saying that fact that Oda invented the awakening during ID makes the difference between awakened-abilities and non-awakanend-but-strong abilities unrecognizable.Exactly. You wouldn't excuse the bad stories for pulling bad writing, so why do you excuse it when the better authors that you KNOW can do better, fail just as badly? That's the issue.
I'm skipping those bad written moments as anyone does sometimes. Simply because the "kind of" out of nowhere nuke didn't stop me from enjoying the scene (and things revolving around it). Kilua can do whatever he wants with Alluka?I was half-okay with that, I just thought that waiting for explanations was the thing to do. And I know the explanation will take time to happen since we're not reaching the dark continent nay time soon.
And unlike FT or Bleach, HxH isn't a childish manga (at least, not until 3 or 4arcs, but even before it was very decent).He wanted to make the Hunter Exam, that is already pretty violent, even harsher if elected, he miss-assignment hunters during the Chimer Ant Arc in order to favor those in his faction, not only endangering the mission but risking innocent lives. With the Beyond announcement he forced the hand of the Hunter Association into remaking the exam in order to avoid his cronies or ants to pass the exam, 18 hunters just went missing with out a trace in the time he was vice-chairmen, so basicaly yeah he is "just" playing with the lives of others.
Things are suggested and slightly implied, but the Zodiacs have no reason to portray him as a psycho in the end. Hunters disappeared? what happened to them? no one knows but let's blame Pariston. And if he was behind all that (which he is) what makes the Zodiacs believe he harmed those hunters or that there is any super-evil plot behind this mess? I like Pariston but the reasons why he's being suspected are cheap imo. At least it's okay to have Gin suspecting him I guess, he could know things through his "main-character" power.
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Things are suggested and slightly implied, but the Zodiacs have no reason to portray him as a psycho in the end. Hunters disappeared? what happened to them? no one knows but let's blame Pariston. And if he was behind all that (which he is) what makes the Zodiacs believe he harmed those hunters or that there is any super-evil plot behind this mess? I like Pariston but the reasons why he's being suspected are cheap imo. At least it's okay to have Gin suspecting him I guess, he could know things through his "main-character" power.
So far the answer is in universe only, we don't for how long the Zodiacs existed, but given that they work un groups based in their affinities they exist long enough to have a grasp of each other. So far Pariston hasn't been shown doing nothing out straight evil, but he has been shown as someone who has little to no care for others unless they can became his playmates sounds like some clown you now?
Other things Netero pick him to be vice-chairmen because he would make his life a living hell. And as Mizai pointed the mean of hunter disappearance was 0.2 before Pariston became vc, and rose to 6 a year during his time. Given that hunters are highly qualified professionals, nen users, and those we had contact very proficient nen users, we can only infer one of two things: either Pariston is involved in the disappearances (as part of Beyond's team) or he is the cause of those, directly or indirectly.
I think the main thing to take from this is that Pariston is extremely shady, and has the same primordial driven as Hisoka imo.
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So far the answer is in universe only, we don't for how long the Zodiacs existed, but given that they work un groups based in their affinities they exist long enough to have a grasp of each other. So far Pariston hasn't been shown doing nothing out straight evil, but he has been shown as someone who has little to no care for others unless they can became his playmates sounds like some clown you now?
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The Joker? if anything, he looks like Don Juan. The Joker isn't known to be such a manipulator. He's doing it, but as far as we know Pariston is only manipulating people and he's doing it pretty well.
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The Joker? if anything, he looks like Don Juan. The Joker isn't known to be such a manipulator. He's doing it, but as far as we know Pariston is only manipulating people and he's doing it pretty well.
I was talking about Hisoka, both only care for people as toys for them, certainly they play differently but the basic feeling is the same.
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btw, I've dropped DBZ after a few volumes so I never understand those comparisons.
Go out and read it. NOW.
Are you implying that Oda knew very well what awakening was since Alabasta (or Enies Lobby) ?
Not at all. But he had at least an inkling that far back, and there was dialogue on the page that could later be bent to fit the later story. Same with haki. The overall final reveal and some elements of it may be janky, but the framework at least was in place so it wasn't completely out of nowhere.
I'm still calling it an asspull because it was ass-pulled during ID imo. Crocodile never mentioned it before, he had all the time to do so during Alabasta. He could have said –-something. But then suddenly in ID he goes "yeah, those guys are awakened zoans".
I'm sure if Chopper had gone into his monster form it would have come up then. It's also possible Croc didn't know about them until he was in Impel Down. Awakened Zoans in particular weren't relevent to the story till about a decade later, so there was zero point in mentioning it then. Same way mentioning Golden Shiki early on would have been confusing.
It developed naturally in the story. Chopper used his drugs to achieve transformations. Eventually we see him use his drugs to reach a giant uncontrollable monster form. And then later we see the government has access to sort of the same thing. ANd then later thanks to Doffy we find that more than just Zoans can awaken. It's a natural progression of reveal and escalation.
And these zoans were very very weak though, compared to Doffy.
Well yeah, they were brainless artificially forced zoan awakenings. Of course they're weaker than a competent person activating it without drugs.
I'm saying that the awakening is something pulled at the last moment, that Oda didn't know what it was before ImpelDown.
Oda probably didn't know until Chopper did it. But the groundwork had been laid so that it was a natural extension of the world. Same thing with the 4 emporers. He might not have known they existed as such before the end of Water 7, but we'd met Shanks and the strongest man int he world Whitebeard, and seen the warlords and that the marines needed some competition, so theframework was there.
Pre-gear2 Luffy defeated awakened-Crocodile (it's implied he was, but not 100% sure though) which is complete horseshit
Crocodile never said he himself was awakened. Just that mastering your devil fruit can make you stronger. And then he moved to the desert where his powers were super hax and his natural weakness wasn't anywhere and all the haki users were on the other side of the world. Croc despite all his bravado was a weak coward who was smart, but not the actual best fighter. Why he uses poison as a last resort. Croc is a weakling that couldn't even do haki, he's not that strong in spite of being a warlord.
. Also he defeated some awakened-zoans with great ease in ID somehow.
brainless artificially forced zoan awakenings. Of course they're weaker than a competent person activating it without drugs.
In other words Oda didn't know how powerful awakening was supposed to be until the last moment which makes a lot of things incoherent. And it's okay to have different levels of awakening, but two awakened person with one being pre-gear2Luffy-level and the other "gear4-level" ? I call BS.
Luffy's powers are generally natural extensions of having a rubber body, they just take creativity to think of. Luffy hasn't awakened his fruit at all, he's just super good at abusing it.
This and fact that we never heard of his relation with WB before pushes me to believe that Crocodile wasn't supposed to be that big shot who was portrayed during Marineford.
THat's natural growth and world progression though.
There's a huge difference between going
"Killua has a sister"
and
"Killua has a sister that the family keeps secret that can grant wishes and can totally cure Gon's uncurable condition and despite everyone thinking the wishes have a huge cost and it being a major point of contention for 20 chapters, Killua gets them for free."There's a wide gulf of difference between "asspull from nowhere to solve an unsolvable problem" and "extension of the world that wasn't relevant earlier"
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Is DBZ that good?
THat's natural growth and world progression though.
There's a huge difference between going
"Killua has a sister"
and
"Killua has a sister that the family keeps secret that can grant wishes and can totally cure Gon's uncurable condition and despite everyone thinking the wishes have a huge cost and it being a major point of contention for 20 chapters, Killua gets them for free."There's a wide gulf of difference between "asspull from nowhere to solve an unsolvable problem" and "extension of the world that wasn't relevant earlier"
At least when Moriah was introduced we knew he had connections with Kaido, but it took hundreds of chapters to Oda to build some backstory to Crocodile. "oh yeah, this character, let's use him again I liked his chara-design and I can't drop him since he has a logia DF, so let's make up some backstory with Ivankov, with WB and make him look like he is a worthy fighter against the top-tiers of this world (stopped Akainu, Mihawk, it might be very slight implications but what did there was 100times better than the shitty Alabasta-Crocodile) "
Same, when Baggy was introduced we knew he had connections with Shanks, Oda didn't asspull this during Rayleigh's speech.And, I don't remember but wasn't Alluka on the family picture since the beginning? showing her back and all, but she was there right? I mean, when the Zoldyck arc happened. Or is really a total asspull ? we didn't even know he had a sister?
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I was talking about Hisoka, both only care for people as toys for them, certainly they play differently but the basic feeling is the same.
I don't believe they're the same. After all Hisoka is the most cliché character of HxH, people like fictional psychopaths for stupid ass reasons. If you go with "basic feeling" then Gin and Pariston are the same too. That's actually what Gin said last time he was talking to Pariston, that they're the same in a way but totally different on other levels.
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I don't believe they're the same. After all Hisoka is the most cliché character of HxH, people like fictional psychopaths for stupid ass reasons. If you go with "basic feeling" then Gin and Pariston are the same too. That's actually what Gin said last time he was talking to Pariston, that they're the same in a way but totally different on other levels.
I ain't saying they are the same, I'm saying that what drives both of them is obtaining pleasure from treating people like toys, that's their basic instinct. Hisoka like to bend and kill worthy opponents, Pariston likes to manipulate people and situations to gain their hate. And no what Ging said, is that both are unorthodox thinkers, the way they see the possibilities in front of them is different of how the rest of the world sees it.
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Okay, and what Gin said is that they both want to spend their time playing, except that Gin isn't manipulating people.
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It ain't one of the most popular shonen series of all time for nothin'
maybe it's because it's the first shonen who made the basics of the shonen rules? anyway, mangas in general suck, only a very few are worth reading. I'll try to take back my lecture someday.
And one piece is more popular tbh. -
maybe it's because it's the first shonen who made the basics of the shonen rules? anyway, mangas in general suck, only a very few are worth reading. I'll try to take back my lecture someday.
And one piece is more popular tbh.Why are you here then?
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OnePiece and HxH don't suck.
Broaden your horizons. There's a bunch of series that are as good as or better than both of those for one reason or another.
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Anime is also a thing.
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Ging.doesn't.manipulate. Right, Beans? Wink Wink Nudge Nudge.
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Broaden your horizons. There's a bunch of series that are as good as or better than both of those for one reason or another.
yeah I'm reading a few mangas and do some animes sometimes. I've cited OnePiece and HxH because this is a OnePiece forum and a HxH thread.
But in the end, mangas are like TV series, most of them suck.Ging.doesn't.manipulate. Right, Beans? Wink Wink Nudge Nudge.
oh yeah that's true, thanks to remind me that btw. But yeah, in the end he ain't doing it against these people, well. You know what I mean.
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yeah I'm reading a few mangas and do some animes sometimes. I've cited OnePiece and HxH because this is a OnePiece forum and a HxH thread.
But in the end, mangas are like TV series, most of them suck.\There's a lot of chaff, sure. But there's also a ton of really, REALLY good stuff out there.
Slam Dunk, Berserk, Nausicaa, Akira, Eagle, Lone Wolf and Cub, Vagabond, One Punch Man, Outlanders, Fist of the Northstar, Death Note, Full Metal Alchemist, Golgo 13, Jojo, Hajimme No Ippo, Maison Ikkoku, Nodame Cantabile, Negima, Phoenix, Jungle Emporer Leo, Kimagure Orange Road, Evangelion, Hikaru No Go, Bakuman, 3x3 Eyes, and hundreds of others in every scope and genre that are good super solid stories worth investing in.
And one piece is more popular tbh.
Well yeah. It built off Dragonball's sucess and it's also been running twice as long as Dragonball did.
That aside, popularity ain't everything. But Dragonball IS the father of the genre for a reason. Great action, characters, memorable moments, constant twists and turns. (And you need to include the first part, not just the Z portion. And it needs to be the manga. The anime, even the Kai version, is poorly paced in comparison.)
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There's a lot of chaff, sure. But there's also a ton of really, REALLY good stuff out there.
Slam Dunk, Berserk, Nausicaa, Akira, Eagle, Lone Wolf and Cub, Vagabond, One Punch Man, Outlanders, Fist of the Northstar, Death Note, Full Metal Alchemist, Golgo 13, Jojo, Hajimme No Ippo, Maison Ikkoku, Nodame Cantabile, Negima, Phoenix, Jungle Emporer Leo, Kimagure Orange Road, Evangelion, Hikaru No Go, Bakuman, 3x3 Eyes, and hundreds of others in every scope and genre that are good super solid stories worth investing in.
Okay, that made me laugh.
Imagine someone wants to start with reading manga in general and gets this as his starting point^^
Don´t get me wrong, i watched the whole anime and that without having played Go before, so… :)Just to be complete, i have to add Monster to that list, otherwise it doesn´t look right for me.
But manga is a vast medium, were every taste was tackled multiple times and so everyone should find something he enjoys there, even when we exclude the big names.
But with that there are tons of stuff i wouldn´t even consider looking at, even when it would actually be a fine read.3x3 Eyes was one of the earliest mangas i bought volumes for, but never really got that far in it.
Was the ending any good? -
Not at all. But he had at least an inkling that far back, and there was dialogue on the page that could later be bent to fit the later story. Same with haki. The overall final reveal and some elements of it may be janky, but the framework at least was in place so it wasn't completely out of nowhere.
While I agree that the concept of "awakening" had some buildup - at the very least for Zoans - I disagree with the (re)interpretation that Crocodiles statement in Alabasta serves as foreshadowing. In fact, its pretty much diametrically opposed to the concept of awakening. Crocodiles statement is about truly exploring your ability, and actually making the most of its potential. Crocodiles ability is "He is and makes sand", an ability as simply defined as Sandman from Marvel, a guy who uses his power to make big sand clubs. Whereas after making his statement, Crocodile throws out deadly blades of erosion, sandstorms and instant dehydration in order to prove his point: Its not the ability, its how you use it. This is also reflected when Luffy throws the quote back at Crocodile in their second encounter: he has unlocked no wholly new abilities, but by clever implementation of his existing ability, he lands two hits on Crocodile.
In comparison, awakening is not about working creatively within the confines of what you've got, but about reaching DF level two, and unlocking a whole new set of rules -or lack thereof-for your ability. On a both textual and metatextual level, DF awakening is about removing the limits on ability usage. Its no secret that DF abilities have gotten far less concisely defined as the series has progressed, and +800 chapters in, its just easier on Oda to officially implement a canon "anything goes" excuse. Some new move seems wildly incongruous compared to a characters established ability? Well, thats just the characters DF awakening. Which is fair game I guess, but absolutely not what was being said in the Luffy/Crocodile exchange way back when.
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@Don:
Okay, that made me laugh.
Imagine someone wants to start with reading manga in general and gets this as his starting point^^
Don´t get me wrong, i watched the whole anime and that without having played Go before, so… :)I was trying to make a point about variety.
3x3 Eyes was one of the earliest mangas i bought volumes for, but never really got that far in it.
Was the ending any good?Dunno. They never finished releasing it stateside and I never found a finished translation. I have the last couple volumes in japanese though…
@Daz:
I disagree with the (re)interpretation that Crocodiles statement in Alabasta serves as foreshadowing.
My point was less "Crocodile is talking about awakening" and more about "Devil Fruits can be pushed beyond their obvious limits" goes that far back at least. Actual awakening in particular definitely wasn't until CHopper did it, and then Impel Down confirmed that wasn't a one-off. ANd even then Doffy's paramecia-awakening was still a new weird out of the blue thing… but it does at least track with some earlier setup, even if its actual reveal was a bit awkwardly handled. (Same with Haki, which also has some early intended setup but didn't hit its current form until the timeskip... so it doesn't quite gel but there's enough pieces there to give it a pass) I'm more off-put thrown by him having a string clone that's so realistic that it can breathe and sweat. (I would ave less problems if it was just sort of an empty figure of a puppet.)
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Full Metal Alchemist
I literally despise FMA, but thanks for the list though. There are some names I didn't know. Btw, I've never liked Berserk and I'm not even trying to be the "yeah uhu I don't have mainstream tastes" guy. I'm not a fan of this nihilist violence.
And I've got to read this manga called DevilMan one day btw.Usually it's not about the writing being solid but simply putted, what the manga is talking about. If we take movies, you could argue that everything in Alien is good but in the end it's a stupid story about a bunch of people fighting a viscous creature who's constantly drooling, kills people for no reason at all and eventually rapes humans in their mouth. And of course it makes no sense why the Xenomorph would be the perfect organism, but that one is nitpicking I guess.
Same for It Follows, the directing might be argued to be good, but it's a story about people fucking each other to give them the slenderman curse.Thing that makes lots of mangas suck or not-good-enough is that they're usually very long. And the reason why they're very long isn't because "the author sucks at pacing" "yeah uh, my manga wasn't supposed to last 80 volumes, whoops, just a miscalculation lol" but because mangas are supposed to last on the long term (a few are short though) for the –-usual reason, just like TV shows aren't made for artistic purposes but financial. But there are a few good things there too, American Crime Story, GoT and Breaking Bad are good for instance (although the pacing in GoT sucks sometimes but that's just because the geezer is writing his novels at the same time I guess). "Mangakas" know how their story is supposed to end, but they don't know everything that's gonna happen in the meantime. In other words the weekly issues make them suck. Japan is literally the only place they do that and the consequence is that authors fill their chapters with useless stuff because they can't keep up the rhythm, which is completely normal.
When a manga crosses the 20volumes line, it starts smelling like trouble. I ain't saying "mangakas" are greedy bastards but the logic of mangas is that they're supposed to last very long.Authors of Franco-Belgian comics for instance know exactly what's gonna happen, and there is no BS pacing. A volume might be consisting of 50pages only but it's going 100times faster than in any manga (well, HxH is fast though when we think about it, at least since the election arc ---I wasn't reading the manga before so I can't really argue). As for american comics, they're between franco-belgian comics and mangas in terms of delay and schedule for authors. And the reason is that authors in France/Belgium (europe, whatever, I'm talking about this industry) do have quite the time to bring a chapter. For the US, someone that works at a comics shop told me (I have no reason not to believe him tbh) that they have a month to give a chapter and sometimes they can't finish it and call another author to helm them (I ain't trying to give an expertise on the comics industry in the US, but you get the idea) and in Japan they have the weekly schedule we all know.
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Its mostly shonen series that run for forever… and most series don't go to 80+ volumes. There's only about 30 titles in the history of the medium that hit that many, and currently only 147 series (in the entire history of the medium) with more than 40 volumes.
It's incredibly rare that a series actually runs for more than 10 years, most other manga actually keep their story to around 3 or 4 years, between 5 and 20 volumes.
Mostly it sounds like you're only really familiar with the mega-successful shonen manga and don't have much context for the huge amount of works that run for just a couple years and in different genres and target audiences.
20 is much closer to the norm than 80, unless you're purely looking at Shonen Jump and their biggest successes. And even in Jump there's a constant string of series that only get 2 volumes, 20 chapters, or that last less than a year.And comparing manga's weekly output to other publishing styles is literally apples and oranges. They're black and white, and have access to many many assistants to help with the art. (And a ton of titles are actually monthly.) Whereas american comics tend to be one artist and in color... and european comics tend to release one deluxe volume every 6 months or once a year, but as a result tend to spend a lot of time really polishing the art. (Berserk is much more on the European model than the Japanese.)
They're very different systems striving for very different results.
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One Piece has 85 volumes.
So yeah, the idea of manga not being allowed to last long is bs. And not every manga is released weekly..
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I would say that not knowing when to stop or how to end it's an authors fault and not a problem of the medium. Secondly I don't think there's that many mangas with more than 80 volumes, there's OP, there's Golgo, there's Kochikame and I don't think i can keep this list from the top of my head, the fact is that the length of a series is hardly a detriment of it, a story can be over 30 volumes and be fantastic and another be less than 20 a mediocre is, again, more about the author than the length itself.
And you think that a weekly schedule is bad for the story, well the monthly schedule isn't working great for the people writing for Marvel, so again I would say that it depends of the author. Some like to cash it, some not, some like to make it brief other go ever long, some face it more than a simple job but a passion to others is just the means to pay the bills, I think it's a little unfair to say the whole medium is bad because there's some rotten apples in it.
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"Mostly mangas aren't good. And I have to time to read them because they are too long for me to say if they are good or not. "
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I didn't say there was many mangas that lasted 80 volumes though. I was just indirectly attacking Oda's pretext.
You're only really familiar with the mega-successful shonen manga and don't have much context for the huge amount of works that run for just a couple years and in different genres and target audiences.
20 is much closer to the norm than 80, unless you're purely looking at Shonen Jump, and even there a ton of titles are done in 2-6 volumes, its only the big hits that run for a decade or more.Well, I haven't read all the mangas you've quoted, and I might have sounded like a newbie but I've been reading mangas for 8years tbh. There is still a few mangas I'd like to read but overall I've realized good mangas with good writing and interesting plot are very rare.
I enjoyed a lot reading Wet Moon and Ping-Pong for instance (to quote mangas that aren't shonens, being very short and everything)And that Japanese authors have assistants doesn't change that the pacing is slow as hell compared to the european comics. So they might be getting help, but it still affects the plot in the end.
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And you think that a weekly schedule is bad for the story, well the monthly schedule isn't working great for the people writing for Marvel, so again I would say that it depends of the author. Some like to cash it, some not, some like to make it brief other go ever long, some face it more than a simple job but a passion to others is just the means to pay the bills, I think it's a little unfair to say the whole medium is bad because there's some rotten apples in it.
A better schedule doesn't automatically turn the manga into something better though. But the weekly schedule is still a weekly schedule. I don't know any author who's good with it. Even Oda is fucking up.
Dressrossa. is. the. best. example. That wouldn't have happened if he wasn't following a weekly schedule. -
Dressrossa. is. the. best. example. That wouldn't have happened if he wasn't following a weekly schedule.
No. It would have happened. Usually we get 20 pages per week. A monthly release comes with an avarage of 46 pages. About twice the ammount of pages. It would like getting a weekly chapter every 2 weeks.
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Any schedule doesn't turn thing automatically good, is the amount of effort and interest the author inputs that make things good. I kinda fail to see what, in your opinion, is a good example of good pacing, you talk about franco-belgian comics, the three I'm familiarized with are Asterix (self centered stories with no overall goal something you seems to dislike), Blacksad (again an exemple of self centered story) and Freak's Squeele, that for all the love I have for the series,Maudoux pulled a Togashi and ended the series with a not that much satisfactory end, besides becoming rushed af around tome 4-5.
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Dresserossa was a mess because Oda threw in too many things at once. If he'd made the tournament its own arc on a seperate island, and then done the other half of the plot separately the next year, it probably would have paced fine and been okay. He just threw too many things together at once, even for him, so it bloated a bit
Also, if you hate FMA, I don't know what to tell you. That's about as tightly plotted and paced with solid characterization and combat as Shonen gets.
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No. It would have happened. Usually we get 20 pages per week. A monthly release comes with an avarage of 46 pages. About twice the ammount of pages. It would like getting a weekly chapter every 2 weeks.
Did you even understand my point was "weekly schedules don't give the time to think about the plot correctly" ? At least monthly schedules gives more time and I didn't say the monthly schedule was the solution either. The best schedule would be the european schedule/pacing. "omg, you wanna steal OnePiece from us? I need my weekly dose" yea lol.
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Most authors don't literally make it up entirely as they go along. That they do in fact, plan and figure things out months or years in advance. (Except Bleach. That guy had zero idea what he was doing.)
The details on a weekly basis may get weird, or the need to get to regular cliffhangers may make for a certain kind of pacing, but the weekly schedule in and of itself doesn't prevent them from knowing where they are going or having the story as a whole figured out.
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Did you even understand my point was "weekly schedules don't give the time to think about the plot correctly" ? At least monthly schedules gives more time and I didn't say the monthly schedule was the solution either. The best schedule would be the european schedule/pacing. "omg, you wanna steal OnePiece from us? I need my weekly dose" yea lol.
Did you even understand my point was "Monthly Schedules wouldn't prevented Dressrosa to have happened?"
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Is HxH –-the current HxH with wordy dialogues, psychology and "complexity" in the plot--- possible in a weekly schedule?
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Is HxH –-the current HxH with wordy dialogues, psychology and "complexity" in the plot--- possible in a weekly schedule?
It should and could if Togashi didn't own jump and had a little more respect for his fans.
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It should and could if Togashi didn't own jump and had a little more respect for his fans.
I don't think Togashi could keep up the good work with weekly issues. As a matter of fact, I don't know anything close to HxH that is following a weekly schedule.
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Can't the discussion be left as different opinion on the medium. Nilitch has exposed his opinion on different mangas and say that while he is not the biggest fan of manga there are some that he enjoys. Both side have also talk at length on the percieved problem of this media or why it is not actually a weakness. I doubt more is going to come out of this discussion.
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So is Beyond's team sailing in the Black Whale as well as the Hunter expedition? Or they got another boat?
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If he needed to move to a bi-weekly or a monthly schedule, no one would begrudge him that. No one cares that Oda has moved to a 3 chapters a month schedule instead of weekly, and no one cares when a monthly series comes out just once a month (though those do have higher page counts.)
Even the "10 chapters a year" format would be acceptable if the story made more progress, the quality was consistent, and the schedule was firmer than "as much as I feel like doing for however long I feel like doing it."
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If he needed to move to a bi-weekly or a monthly schedule, no one would begrudge him that. No one cares that Oda has moved to a 3 chapters a month schedule instead of weekly, and no one cares when a monthly series comes out just once a month (though those do have higher page counts.)
Even the "10 chapters a year" format would be acceptable if the story made more progress, the quality was consistent, and the schedule was firmer than "as much as I feel like doing for however long I feel like doing it."
You're talking about his lack of professionalism. I'm just saying HxH couldn't be possible at a weekly schedule. Wether he is an ass not to jump on monthly issues is something else.
And the story is progressing though, you can't really say nothing happens in the chapters or what. yeah, the fight against Chrollo was pointless but that fight aside, I don't have a thing to complain about on the pacing. (I think I don't)
So is Beyond's team sailing in the Black Whale as well as the Hunter expedition? Or they got another boat?
They're probably at the top of the Black Whale. The last floor that looks like a boat is fishy af.
This whole democratic expedition smells like sacrifice or something–- not sure.And yet you like Hunter x Hunter?
yeah, like the whole concept of HxH was the main-character waving his big sword against a horde of thousands of creatures.
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They're probably at the top of the Black Whale. The last floor that looks like a boat is fishy af.
This whole democratic expedition smells like sacrifice or something–- not sure.I don't think any of the civilians where intended to be sacrificed by among the battle royale among the princes, the troupe and Hisoka being on board, and the rescue Beyond operation, a lot o innocent lives are gonna be lost before we reach the fake DC.
yeah, like the whole concept of HxH was the main-character waving his big sword against a horde of thousands of creatures.
While Guts do that a lot, that is not even remotely close what drives the history or the character but this is a discussion for another thread.
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I don't think any of the civilians where intended to be sacrificed by among the battle royale among the princes, the troupe and Hisoka being on board, and the rescue Beyond operation, a lot o innocent lives are gonna be lost before we reach the fake DC.
I'm saying that Beyond is talking about a way to enter the dark continent smoothly, we still have no idea wtf this is. So I assume he has something, he can do something, his team is very useful or sacrifice.
But yeah, people might die before reaching the fake DC.And if Gon and/or Killua happen to be part of this arc, this is where Knov would probably help them to get in the ship. (Knov is already supposed to bring material and whatnot at the fake DC, if I'm correct)
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yeah, like the whole concept of HxH was the main-character waving his big sword against a horde of thousands of creatures.
I think you and I have a different understanding of what nihilism is.