I think it's also partly people who are scared of "different". If things aren't "normal" and what they're used to, then it's wrong and must be hated.
Talk LGBT Issues And Be Nice About It
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Let's not forget all the people who believe it's against "God's Law" or whatever.
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Oh, okay. Thank you everyone for your answers! I hope eventually us transgender folk will be accepted for who we are, and not being hated because we are different, hopefully before the end of my lifetime, to be honest.
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This post is deleted!
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This post has been sitting in the back of my mind for a week now. I was debating if it would be of any use to anyone if I typed it out and I went back and forth from "heck yeah, this might help someone down the line" and "maybe it's not really as revolutionary as I think it is".
Let's dive right in (spoilered because it became a wall of text halfway through).
! Transpeople sometimes have the ability to either disclose or hide the fact that they're transgender. This is, of course, a very personal choice only they can make and no one else should force or coerce them to do either against their will.
If you are a friend or family member or colleague or other acquintance of a trans person who discloses their status to you, you have to treat this information with the outmost respect and care. Unless getting explicit permission, please don't share it with anyone else regardless your own judgement. You might think there's no harm sharing it with a friend who you know isn't transphobic and would 100% be supportive, but understand that this isn't your "secret" to share. Even if you think the friend in question already suspects something.
Always err on the side of caution and ask your trans friend. "Is it okay if I tell them?"; "Can I tell my mom? She always loved you and you could have a safe place at our house."; "Friend A has been asking some questions about you. Should I tell them, or do you want to take care of the matter yourself?"
You might have well-meaning intentions, but you can still do harm. This isn't much to ask, and I'm fairly sure no one who loves the trans person crosses this boundary on purpose and with malice. This is mainly while I've decided to write this wall of text. I understand that when spoken out loud, it sounds stupidly self-explanatory, but we are human, and we all make mistakes.
! I have some examples of my own I wanted to share.
First is with a newer friend in our group. She's pretty cool and chill and I felt comfortable enough to share my trans status with her. She asked some questions (after I said it's okay), and treated me with respect. I go home, everything is fine. Some time after, I met her again, and somehow the night earlier comes up. We had been at a bar and I remember her boyfriend coming in near the end. The girl told me he was kinda taken aback at first and seemed almost jealous of me. She proceeded to disclose my trans status to him as a way of calming him.
This is… not okay in the slightest. Two problems arise, one is very simply telling someone else I'm trans; the second is making me feel kind of like a man with no fangs who poses no danger. Hey, I'm trans so I won't take your girlfriend. Not because I don't want to, have no interest in girls, or because I respect other people's relationship, but because I'm trans.
I understand that this probably wasn't her intention and that she meant to do no harm. However, she kind of did and it sparked a conversation among my friends. Sadly, she wasn't there, but I plan on speaking with her one-on-one. I don't want any conflict, but my friends agreed that this isn't some unreasonable request.
! The second example is with my other friend I've known for a couple of years. He told his father that he has a trans friend when the topic came up and his dad voiced his (uninformed) opinion. I'm okay with this, mainly because there was no name-dropping and it's unlikely I'll ever meet this man. I don't see it as my secret being shared. That said, if your trans friend doesn't want you to do this, respect their wishes. If you're unsure, ask.
! The third example isn't trans related, but LGBTQIA+ related nonetheless and closely connected to the subject at hand. Me and my closest friend have a lesbian friend. Once my friend and his brother were talking with someone who asked if the woman was in a relationship. My friend answered "Yes, she's been with her wife for years." The brother promptly called my friend aside and told him "Dude, I know it's all cool, but don't go around telling people that." My friend was embarrassed and immediately admitted that it was disrespectful and stupid of him to disclose such information. Again, no malice, but we should pay attention and think before we speak.
! For me, personally, this doesn't have anything to do with me being embarrassed or feeling shame over being trans. Not at all. I'm pretty proud of being a transgender individual, and I wouldn't trade places with anyone else. I'm lucky to be able to experience life from two seemingly (but ultimately not) different perspectives. Sort of like seeing both sides of the same coin. I want to use this knowledge I've gained to better myself as an individual and offer my thoughts as someone with a highly unique perspective. I explicitly told almost everyone I've met and disclosed my trans status that they can ask, because I want to educate people in my own little way. Some do activism, some give speeches at universities or rallies. Some make art, some become involved in politics. My help is minuscule compared to these people's contributions, but this is what I currently feel comfortable with. If one more person switches to uninformed passerby to someone who might say a word or two in our defense, I'm already happy. I might not be able to convince hardcore transphobes to change their hateful thinking, but I might make a neutral person positive.
! This isn't about shame or pride. It's about personal boundaries that should be respected. It's about safety. It's about treating this information as any other someone shared with you in confidence. -
That's very well written and thank you for sharing Nolus :)
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I think it is also important to tell your friends that if you want to keep it a secret so they know themselves that they are not supposed to tell anyone, unless you gave them permission or you are open with your status, if that makes sense. Which is what I'm gonna start doing with my transgender status, since I hide the fact that I'm trans myself, especially in real life.
There was a situation I had where a former friend (There is a different reason why we not friends anymore.) told the guy I liked at the time that I was trans, and that was a bit upsetting since it was found out he does not believe in transgenderism. So, since I wasn't there, to let him know that you can have your opinion, but just use the right pronouns, and I be all good, except that didn't happen, and now I'm not sure if he is gonna call me he or she to be honest, since I sorta stopped being friends with him without actually talking about it. (Since at the time, I was not thinking about compromises and stuff.)
I made my trans status a secret because I had a lot of people judge me for who I am, and I faced discrimination especially when I worked. It was awful to not being able to use the women's restroom, I was lucky at the time that I had the unisex one, but was still a pain in the ass to go all the way to the back just to do my business. Eventually, I fought for my rights to use the restroom, but it took two years of suffering to get that conclusion. So, I guess in a way the discrimination just brought more to my PTSD.
Regardless, it's difficult, I honestly wish I was more open and not give a shit, but I get dysphoric when people call me the wrong pronouns 99% of the time. Plus, it doesn't help that I have extreme social anxiety, as this just adds more to increase the social phobia I have. I do hope that one day people will be understanding about us and be more loving and accepting.
Also, I really HATE it when trans-haters try to bring up that stupid Swedish study that says post-op will increase the suicidal rate for transsexuals, when in fact that study was flawed. It compared post-op trans-folk to the population of Sweden, and not you know post-up vs. pre-up :getlost: So, yeah >_<
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@Serra:
That's very well written and thank you for sharing Nolus :)
I'm glad you liked it~
@Stranger:
I think it is also important to tell your friends that if you want to keep it a secret so they know themselves that they are not supposed to tell anyone, unless you gave them permission or you are open with your status, if that makes sense. Which is what I'm gonna start doing with my transgender status, since I hide the fact that I'm trans myself, especially in real life.
You are right. It's not so much about the friends I already made, more about the ones I will make in the future. I guess I'll add "Please, don't tell anyone without my knowledge" to my regular disclaimer whenever I come out to someone.
@Stranger:There was a situation I had where a former friend (There is a different reason why we not friends anymore.) told the guy I liked at the time that I was trans, and that was a bit upsetting since it was found out he does not believe in transgenderism. So, since I wasn't there, to let him know that you can have your opinion, but just use the right pronouns, and I be all good, except that didn't happen, and now I'm not sure if he is gonna call me he or she to be honest, since I sorta stopped being friends with him without actually talking about it. (Since at the time, I was not thinking about compromises and stuff.)
I made my trans status a secret because I had a lot of people judge me for who I am, and I faced discrimination especially when I worked. It was awful to not being able to use the women's restroom, I was lucky at the time that I had the unisex one, but was still a pain in the ass to go all the way to the back just to do my business. Eventually, I fought for my rights to use the restroom, but it took two years of suffering to get that conclusion. So, I guess in a way the discrimination just brought more to my PTSD.
Regardless, it's difficult, I honestly wish I was more open and not give a shit, but I get dysphoric when people call me the wrong pronouns 99% of the time. Plus, it doesn't help that I have extreme social anxiety, as this just adds more to increase the social phobia I have. I do hope that one day people will be understanding about us and be more loving and accepting.
I get dysphoria too sometimes when I think about someone finding out that I'm trans. I hate the thought of someone attributing my emotions or mannerism to me "having been a girl before". I actually had this experience, in a gay club. It was with this one guy, who was in his forties I think, whom I started talking with about my transition. Somehow, the subject of sex came up, and I confessed honestly that I'm reserved and unwilling to just jump into intercourse. "That's what women do." referring to me being reserved and shy about sex. It's infuriating, even after almost a year. The guy luckily went abroad for work, and the rest of the club is younger and more open. I never had problems with anyone else there and I'm out to most of the regulars. Well, was, I haven't met the group for some months.
@Stranger:
Also, I really HATE it when trans-haters try to bring up that stupid Swedish study that says post-op will increase the suicidal rate for transsexuals, when in fact that study was flawed. It compared post-op trans-folk to the population of Sweden, and not you know post-up vs. pre-up :getlost: So, yeah >_<
Ah, the famous Swedish study the debunks transgenderism or something. I actually read that, I even followed the link straight from a anti-trans website, and guess what, it's misinterpreted. And old, which is more significant one might think. It's also quite important to distinguish the different reasons a trans person has for being depressed or having suicidal thoughts. Like not being accepted by their families, friends, community and being made target for ridicule and violence. Those things tend to have bad influence on people, unsurprisingly.
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I realized for quite some time now, that I am in fact asexual. I say this because I can be sexual, but 99.9% of the time it does nothing to me, I do it please the other individual. Plus, I only had one sex dream in my life, and I'm 31. I honestly don't even think about sex, and I do have hentai images, but I literally just appreciate it for the artwork. So, yeah :happy:
You are right. It's not so much about the friends I already made, more about the ones I will make in the future. I guess I'll add "Please, don't tell anyone without my knowledge" to my regular disclaimer whenever I come out to someone.
Yeah, I like to be in stealth as much as I can, though I'm too open and that at times gets me into trouble.
I get dysphoria too sometimes when I think about someone finding out that I'm trans. I hate the thought of someone attributing my emotions or mannerism to me "having been a girl before". I actually had this experience, in a gay club. It was with this one guy, who was in his forties I think, whom I started talking with about my transition. Somehow, the subject of sex came up, and I confessed honestly that I'm reserved and unwilling to just jump into intercourse. "That's what women do." referring to me being reserved and shy about sex. It's infuriating, even after almost a year. The guy luckily went abroad for work, and the rest of the club is younger and more open. I never had problems with anyone else there and I'm out to most of the regulars. Well, was, I haven't met the group for some months.
Yeah, I actually know that feeling. When many years ago when I worked in this place, I couldn't find what I was looking for, I believe it was first aid stuff, but not sure. Then the manager who was female was there, basically flat out told me, that oh women are better at finding things than men. That really hurt me a lot, and I believe I stated that. I never liked her much, and I was happy when she got replaced by a better manager. (She got moved to a different department I believe.)
Ah, the famous Swedish study the debunks transgenderism or something. I actually read that, I even followed the link straight from a anti-trans website, and guess what, it's misinterpreted. And old, which is more significant one might think. It's also quite important to distinguish the different reasons a trans person has for being depressed or having suicidal thoughts. Like not being accepted by their families, friends, community and being made target for ridicule and violence. Those things tend to have bad influence on people, unsurprisingly.
I agree completely. Society being against you for who you are really makes things hard, I am always scared of public restrooms, and the girl's locker room. I hate that my college only has an open shower… so if I want to take a shower, I have to wear my bikini, so it's not like much people actually use it there anyway, but still. That fear of judgement. Hopefully, eventually everyone will not be just accepting of transgender people, but of every type of person from every walks of life. I do have faith in humanity, so yeah
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Most cis folks can't even imagine how it would be to not identify with their own body
The mind isn't an empire in an empty shell: our identity is composed of both the spirit and the body, that, rather than being two distinct entities, interact and give birth to "I", this certainty that we call consciousness.
When I'm anxious, I can feel it in my stomach; when I'm scared, my body shakes. Meditating is a source of physical relief; running or exercising, of mental relief. If the mind and the body were separate, this wouldn't be possible.
Perhaps this is controversial and above all wrong, but I think that the need for one to swap genders is the symptom of a mental issue that would require therapy more than surgery. From this stems the feeling that letting people do as they please isn't right, from a moral perspective. There are limits to what one can do to his own body, and it would be good to have an actual conversation about them. Thing is, many of us now have the conviction that each individual has every right to dispose of himself as he wishes, as long as it doesn't harm/impact anyone else. Questioning that belief often appears as a will to oppress, discriminate, categorize (and at times rightfully so: I have this idiot Ben Shapiro in mind, whose whole motive is to hurt peoples' feelings and fuel other's hatred).I hope this doesn't come through as mean. It's not intended to. I'm trying to understand what is right, and this thread is an opportunity to do just that.
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Thing is that it isn't the right of the people who are happy with their nasty bits to tell those that are unhappy what to do with them.
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Thing is that it isn't the right of the people who are happy with their nasty bits to tell those that are unhappy what to do with them.
Not said, not even implied.
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You feel that "letting people do as they please is not right from a moral perspective"
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You feel that "letting people do as they please is not right from a moral perspective"
And you think that is never the case? Why?
I'm trying to make you consider the whole comment, which explains the sentence you picked out. -
The mind isn't an empire in an empty shell: our identity is composed of both the spirit and the body, that, rather than being two distinct entities, interact and give birth to "I", this certainty that we call consciousness.
When I'm anxious, I can feel it in my stomach; when I'm scared, my body shakes. Meditating is a source of physical relief; running or exercising, of mental relief. If the mind and the body were separate, this wouldn't be possible.
Perhaps this is controversial and above all wrong, but I think that the need for one to swap genders is the symptom of a mental issue that would require therapy more than surgery. From this stems the feeling that letting people do as they please isn't right, from a moral perspective. There are limits to what one can do to his own body, and it would be good to have an actual conversation about them. Thing is, many of us now have the conviction that each individual has every right to dispose of himself as he wishes, as long as it doesn't harm/impact anyone else. Questioning that belief often appears as a will to oppress, discriminate, categorize (and at times rightfully so: I have this idiot Ben Shapiro in mind, whose whole motive is to hurt peoples' feelings and fuel other's hatred).I hope this doesn't come through as mean. It's not intended to. I'm trying to understand what is right, and this thread is an opportunity to do just that.
If the mind and body are intertwined, and you're experiencing metal distress, then by your own logic isn't changing the body a solution?
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The mind isn't an empire in an empty shell: our identity is composed of both the spirit and the body, that, rather than being two distinct entities, interact and give birth to "I", this certainty that we call consciousness.
When I'm anxious, I can feel it in my stomach; when I'm scared, my body shakes. Meditating is a source of physical relief; running or exercising, of mental relief. If the mind and the body were separate, this wouldn't be possible.
Perhaps this is controversial and above all wrong, but I think that the need for one to swap genders is the symptom of a mental issue that would require therapy more than surgery. From this stems the feeling that letting people do as they please isn't right, from a moral perspective. There are limits to what one can do to his own body, and it would be good to have an actual conversation about them. Thing is, many of us now have the conviction that each individual has every right to dispose of himself as he wishes, as long as it doesn't harm/impact anyone else. Questioning that belief often appears as a will to oppress, discriminate, categorize (and at times rightfully so: I have this idiot Ben Shapiro in mind, whose whole motive is to hurt peoples' feelings and fuel other's hatred).I hope this doesn't come through as mean. It's not intended to. I'm trying to understand what is right, and this thread is an opportunity to do just that.
Thing is, a lot of trans people do go to therapy. I'm one of them, heck, I saw my psychiatrist today and will visit her in two weeks. I started seeing her years before I found out I'm trans, and I still continue seeing her for my own good.
It is true that mind and body are not two entirely separate entities, however I do feel that there can be incongruence between the two, for example gender dysphoria.
In such cases, countless individual cases has shown us that making changes to the body was not only more realistic, but yielded better and more consistent results. Changing the mind or soul is practically impossible and I'd argue trying so causes immense harm, think conversion therapy.While research on what makes a person transgender is still in its infancy with countless question left unanswered, there are theories which state that it's not so much a "mind vs. body" issue, but a "brain vs. rest of the body" one. This means that while my brain is more than likely to be wired for a male body, I was born with a female one. This all is extremely simplified, party because I'm not a scientist myself and partly because there's still a need for more research in his area.
However, even if science still lacks definitive answers, we can look through the life stories or numerous transgender individuals from all across the world and sometimes in history as well. The majority of times, going through transition (which can be social and surgical) is shown to benefit the individual greatly. They become happier, more confident, more like themselves and overall a more healthy part of society. A healthy (in mind and body) and happy person is better for everyone. It is true however that underlying mental health issues, such as depression, anxiety etc. should not be overlooked and must be managed however a professional and the individual in question see fit. Throughout my transition, I not only worked on "becoming a man" but also becoming a better and healthier person. I spent time understanding what benefits and disadvantages I can get from taking testosterone simultaneously to working on my relationship with my other people. While I researched top surgery, I also made an effort to battle my anxiety concerning university. I became much more outgoing and willing to take risks in order to meet new people, I started meditating and working out, drinking water and eating a full, healthy diet.
What I'm trying to say with all this, it's easy to think that trans people expect transition to solve all their problems, and while there are some who might mistakenly think that, I do believe the majority of us understand that it is only one of the many steps we all have to take in order to live fulfilling and joyful lives.
Now you might ask what would've happened if I hadn't gone through transition but everything else stayed the same. Before my transition, I was already working on myself so to speak. I had just came out of a long tunnel of multiple years of depression and began rebuilding my life and taking time to discover who I really was and what my values were. Throughout this search I found my truth, which is that I'm a transman. It was like finally finding a string in a dimly lit forest and following it, step by step, carefully examining where it took me. It didn't start out as "hey, you're a dude, follow the trail ahead". It just dawned on me one day.
The truth is, I feel happier and infinitely better than I did before I started transitioning. I'm able to confidently face my fears and battle my anxiety, the problems life chuck in my way seem so much less daunting and unsolvable.
If you have the time, I really recommend reading a book on transpeople, just to get the overall picture. The Transgender Guidebook is mainly written to transpeople, but it offers a comprehensive and beginner-friendly look inside this phenomenon. The author is a mental professional and therapist who worked with countless transgender patients. While I'm severely lacking in knowledge on good resources on transwomen (the book mentioned above is for "both sides"), for a transmasculine perspective I can recommend reading Jamison Green's Becoming a Visible Man. The writer itself is a transman, who is also an advocate and a speaker.
Some more information available on the internet:
https://www.apa.org/topics/lgbt/transgender -
The mind isn't an empire in an empty shell: our identity is composed of both the spirit and the body, that, rather than being two distinct entities, interact and give birth to "I", this certainty that we call consciousness.
I already read your post, but breaking it piece by piece to talk about the different points you were saying. With the spirit/soul and body. They are one yes, but at the same time they can look like two different things. In the example of a transgender male to female, their spirit/soul is female, but their body does not match up with the spirit, producing a disconnect between the two causing distress. This distress is called gender dysphoria.
When I'm anxious, I can feel it in my stomach; when I'm scared, my body shakes. Meditating is a source of physical relief; running or exercising, of mental relief. If the mind and the body were separate, this wouldn't be possible.
And in the example of the transgender person that changed genders from male to female. The source of mental relief is in fact changing or swapping your gender to the opposite one. The mind works with the body, and the body works with the mind. There is distress if the two don't line up, so by transitioning and doing the proper surgeries and medication, it helps give relief to the person in question.
Perhaps this is controversial and above all wrong, but I think that the need for one to swap genders is the symptom of a mental issue that would require therapy more than surgery.
You see a mental illness brings distress. Getting surgery to change what's wrong for you can actually be the cure. In the case of transsexuals, the "mental illness" is the gender dysphoria, and to fix it is to accept that you are not this gender, but the opposite one. Hence the surgery, etc. By transitioning successfully to the correct gender brings mental relief like what you mentioned earlier.
Here I put in an example of one that you can understand better. Let's talk about you, if someone kept calling you the wrong pronouns, and treated you like someone you are not, will most likely produce distress because it's hurting you. Or if they refuse to call you something, even though that's your name. If it is keep on repeating over and over again, it can cause much distress on your mind. The solution is to cut off the person, or tell them how you feel, so it can be changed. It sometimes can be damaging if let's say it was a family member, and you were a child.
Another example is people are born with an arm. Sure they can "accept" but at the same time, they will have relief when they get a prosthetic. It's similar to how a transgender male to female individual can fix their penis, and change it to a vagina. A more common example is being overweight, the solution to that can be surgery, exercise, etc. But you are still modifying your body to fit your needs.
From this stems the feeling that letting people do as they please isn't right, from a moral perspective. There are limits to what one can do to his own body, and it would be good to have an actual conversation about them.
Well, as long as no one gets hurts, you can do as you please. Why does it matter how one proceeds themselves in life when in fact it does not cause them distress? We modify our body is many different ways to fit who we are. Like getting a tattoo, piercings, etc. Also, in the case of not seeing well, getting glasses. It's the same with changing one's gender. The acceptance part is in fact accepting that you are trans, and you need to change.
Thing is, many of us now have the conviction that each individual has every right to dispose of himself as he wishes, as long as it doesn't harm/impact anyone else. Questioning that belief often appears as a will to oppress, discriminate, categorize
And this is the point I'm referring to. A transgender person is not harming themselves while they are transitioning, but it fact it helps them have mental relief. What does impacts them is gender dysphoria. That causes distress within themselves, and other people can bring harm to them if they don't respect them. The cure? To get the proper surgeries, and focus on being the true you, which then brings relief to the person. This relief does not harm the person, not at all.
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You are correct insofar as the mind and body are not two entirely separate entities that just happen to be stuck together. However, a lot of your musings are coming from the perspective that "transgenderism" is a mental illness. This is untrue. Being trans (in any capacity) isn't an illness. An illness would be something you'd want to cure or suppress. You don't suppress being trans. Attempts to suppress one's trans…ness have historically been dangerous, malicious, and harmful. Gender dysphoria is an illness. A common alleviation for said gender dysphoria is transitioning. Tends to work.
On to another point, many trans people do go to therapy. In certain places said therapy is a requirement before undergoing hormone replacement. There is no catch all for what will work though. Some people transition. Some people don't. Individualism and all that jazz. It also goes back to my earlier mention of that dangerous, malicious, and harmful suppression. There's not quite understanding the trans community and then there's telling people what they can and can't do with their bodies. I am vehemently opposed to the latter.
Side note, your use of strictly male pronouns and phrases such as "swap genders" is a touch disconcerting.
And we do agree on Shapiro being a bully who thinks you win arguments by shouting over whomever you're talking with until they get fed up and leave.
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@Below:
And we do agree on Shapiro being a bully who thinks you win arguments by shouting over whomever you're talking with until they get fed up and leave.
It's kind of hard to deny that when the man himself did a presentation on "debating tips" which included immediately accusing the opposing side of being bad people, not letting them speak, and just in general describing his own process as "destroying" the opposing side rather than having an intellectually honest discussion with them.
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I'm having the surgery next week on Wednesday. Time almost slowed to a halt these past few weeks, and now it switched into overdrive. I have no reason to worry though, the two surgeries I've had so far (that I remember out of three), went without any complications. I'm healthy, everything's arranged and the hospital seems modern and cozy (as much as a hospital can be anyway).
I'm also tired. Partly due to hormones I'd wager, but mostly because I've been at this whole transition thing for more than 2 years now. And I still have some things (aside from this surgery), that I planned for this year, including a revision surgery for my mastectomy/top surgery. After that, nothing for years, mainly because I have no money for bottom surgery yet, nor am I fully decided on where and what kind of procedure I want.
Looking back, I don't regret anything. I still think I did the best I possibly could with the circumstances I'd been given. It's almost unbelievable… Five years ago, I wouldn't dare to think my life was going to be like this. To think that I'm transgender, and that I willingly lay under the knife multiple times...
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Well you never truly know where ya gonna end up. I'm sure the surgery will go fine Nolly. And if the surgeon acts up just yell a little Swedish at him to instill the fear of Ikea in him
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Well you never truly know where ya gonna end up. I'm sure the surgery will go fine Nolly. And if the surgeon acts up just yell a little Swedish at him to instill the fear of Ikea in him
Heh, I've learned a few Swedish swears from the new HBO show Gösta, so that might come in handy. Except when they used fuck.
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I owe you big time for that one time you helped me out, Nolus! I wish you the best luck!
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Can someone explain where the idea of altering one’s gender comes from. It just feels totally alien to me and, frankly, the way in which it is pushed in society can easily lead one into believing this is a sinister social engineering agenda.
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I wish you the best Nolus! Have a quick and healthy recovery :)
Can someone explain where the idea of altering one’s gender comes from. It just feels totally alien to me and, frankly, the way in which it is pushed in society can easily lead one into believing this is a sinister social engineering agenda.
The way you state this seems confusing. "Altering gender" makes it sound like you're talking about sex instead since this came right after a post about surgery. And even then – what makes it alien? There are a lot of variations between members of the same sex or gender, so much so that everyone doesn't fit into the same box anyways.
I think you might have a different view on things if you think "acceptance" is the same as "pushing it onto people". At least from my own experience, even the people to accept me being transgender still wish I wasn't. They just know and accept that I can't change it.
I'm sorry to hear that you appear to have encountered people who have pushed you to change your gender or sex.
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Can someone explain where the idea of altering one’s gender comes from. It just feels totally alien to me and, frankly, the way in which it is pushed in society can easily lead one into believing this is a sinister social engineering agenda.
I don't think at all that any of this could 'easily lead one' to believe any sinister intentions into any of this, especially when trans people are so utterly oppressed and/or reviled by just about every organization capable of enacting any kind of "social engineering agenda," from politicans and the news to social media.
To explain the topic, the breakdown is that gender, distinct from biological sex, is the sum of culture built around certain kinds of identity that originally centered around specific sexual and social roles, namely 'male' and 'female'. These ideas are things that have changed and evolved over time, with a notable example being how pink and blue completely flipped their gender associations over time (pink used to be manly and blue more feminine). Though these are often associated with biological sex, they are separate and thus some people find their gender expression and self-identity don’t match the ones society assumed of or forced on them based on their bits. These people are considered transgendered, having existed as one gender previously, and now another. Some people find that these genders don’t fit at all, or that they feel a part of different genders at different times, which is what it means to be nonbinary and genderfluid respectively.
None of these things are really harmful, nonetheless 'sinister'. They're just the result of meditations on identity that have been galvanized more in recent times by the increase in visibility of trans identity and thought. Some people feel threatened by this because it puts their own identities into question, or because they've bought into propaganda spewed by a hateful machine (there's plenty of evidence that trans hate groups and anti-trans movements such as the TERFs are funded by right wing and evangelical money). But if you take a step back, then it should be easy to see that there's nothing dangerous about questioning gender.
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Can someone explain where the idea of altering one’s gender comes from. It just feels totally alien to me and, frankly, the way in which it is pushed in society can easily lead one into believing this is a sinister social engineering agenda.
Well, transgender people have been around since the beginning of humanity. The way it works for me anyway is like this:
1. My body feels weird with having the wrong parts there, which I plan to correct with surgery. It's similar to how one is born without an arm, and have to get a new arm to fix it. They would still feel like they need a arm, even if it is not there. That's how sex change works.
2. The idea of surgery was created in the 1960s or 1970s, or even earlier. I'm not sure. But there were records of transgender people before that.
3. Well, it may seem like it's being "pushed", but it's more of letting people know we exist type of thing.
4. As for the alien part, here's something that might help you understand it better. I'm assuming you are male, so let's say you magically get a vagina right now, you would feel really uncomfortable after that right? That's a little of how trans people feel. Hope that I was of help :happy:
P.S. Even if you disagree with the idea of being transgender, I still think it's important to use the correct pronouns as a sign of respect for the other person. Regardless, I hope I made things a bit more clearer now for you.
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I don't think at all that any of this could 'easily lead one' to believe any sinister intentions into any of this, especially when trans people are so utterly oppressed and/or reviled by just about every organization capable of enacting any kind of "social engineering agenda," from politicans and the news to social media.
To explain the topic, the breakdown is that gender, distinct from biological sex, is the sum of culture built around certain kinds of identity that originally centered around specific sexual and social roles, namely 'male' and 'female'. These ideas are things that have changed and evolved over time, with a notable example being how pink and blue completely flipped their gender associations over time (pink used to be manly and blue more feminine). Though these are often associated with biological sex, they are separate and thus some people find their gender expression and self-identity don’t match the ones society assumed of or forced on them based on their bits. These people are considered transgendered, having existed as one gender previously, and now another. Some people find that these genders don’t fit at all, or that they feel a part of different genders at different times, which is what it means to be nonbinary and genderfluid respectively.
None of these things are really harmful, nonetheless 'sinister'. They're just the result of meditations on identity that have been galvanized more in recent times by the increase in visibility of trans identity and thought. Some people feel threatened by this because it puts their own identities into question, or because they've bought into propaganda spewed by a hateful machine (there's plenty of evidence that trans hate groups and anti-trans movements such as the TERFs are funded by right wing and evangelical money). But if you take a step back, then it should be easy to see that there's nothing dangerous about questioning gender.There are still debates on whether gender expression and roles (a subset of gender expression) differing from assigned sex counts as transgender.
After all, gender roles tend to vary by culture. Hell, they change with time within a culture like you pointed out. And many factors unrelated to gender identity (which is a different thing) can lead to the rejection of those.
Gender dysphoria, however, is a bit more complicated, mainly because some people wouldn't like to equate it to a solely socially-defined thing like gender roles. I assume it's because there's a biological aspect to it too, because of the gender-sex mismatch. Plus, possible causes associated with the brain or hormone production.
It's a difficult thing to discuss in any case. Humanity may never figure all the aspects of gender identity since so many things in our bodies may be related to it, and identifying them all is not easy.
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The surgery went fine without any complications. I feel okay, only slight nausea and minimal pain. It's mostly the gas that's causing some discomfort, but other than that, it's not as bad as I was expecting.
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Are there more bi than gay people, one of my family members recently admitted they were bi but they knew of a lot more when they were in HS
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Interesting question, and the answer might be more difficult to find than one imagines. Partly because of how people identify themselves and partly because I've read about bi-erasure and biphobia among LGBTQIA+ communities. Just like with anyone else under the rainbow umbrella, people might be hesitant or afraid to come out as bi.
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The fact that gay people bully bi people for their sexual identity is just the epitome of cognitive dissonance
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Humans can be amazingly dumb creatures. There are examples of transphobia among gay people as well, which is equally astounding. So far I've only really encountered with ignorance (when I told one guy that I'm a transman, he legit asked me: "So… you had your dick cut off?").
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I remember hearing about a bissexual youtuber I follow being called a "Fake Gay"
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Since the topic (kind of?) came up, I'm kind of curious how people here understand the term Pansexual.
Mostly because it's something I found to be obvious (as I identify as pan), but recently it came to my attention that a lot of people treat it like it's the same thing as bi.
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Since the topic (kind of?) came up, I'm kind of curious how people here understand the term Pansexual.
Mostly because it's something I found to be obvious (as I identify as pan), but recently it came to my attention that a lot of people treat it like it's the same thing as bi.
I understand it as your more attracted to someone character than gender.
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Since the topic (kind of?) came up, I'm kind of curious how people here understand the term Pansexual.
Mostly because it's something I found to be obvious (as I identify as pan), but recently it came to my attention that a lot of people treat it like it's the same thing as bi.
I understand it as attraction to people without regard for sex/gender, as opposed to bi where you're likely mainly attracted to men and women sex-wise.
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I didn't even know there was a thing called pansexual.
But the name sounds like it implies that you'd do anything to anything.
Humans can be amazingly dumb creatures. There are examples of transphobia among gay people as well, which is equally astounding. So far I've only really encountered with ignorance (when I told one guy that I'm a transman, he legit asked me: "So… you had your dick cut off?").
There is alot of that "my struggle can't be compared to your struggle" going around. You'd think that opressed groups would feel some sorta kinship but i guess not huh.
I remember hearing about a bissexual youtuber I follow being called a "Fake Gay"
Damn fake gays ruining the natural order of the pureblooded homosexuals.
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Since the topic (kind of?) came up, I'm kind of curious how people here understand the term Pansexual.
Mostly because it's something I found to be obvious (as I identify as pan), but recently it came to my attention that a lot of people treat it like it's the same thing as bi.
I treat them as the same to be honest. I date anyone, etc. I'm bisexual/pansexual myself. It's probably because how I view gender and sex, and I'm not gonna get into that.
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I recently joined a LGBT+ club at school! I learned that thanks to this club, people can use their preferred name and pronouns on paperwork! Which is pretty sweet! :3
Which means I can have my new name be used than my old one. Both are female names, but I fucked up the first time I changed my name, sooooo this is good for me.
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After a bit of a complication, I'm happy to say I'm finally feeling good. Not 100%, I still can't strain myself and am afraid to eat beans, but my hormones seem to be behaving.
The whole procedure (hysto-oopho-salpyngectomy) cost me more than I expected but some financial help from my mother helped greatly. Still, I'm glad to have it behind me. No more visits to the gynecologists~I'm not sure my current wellbeing is more of a "I've been feeling crappy for months and now I'm feeling less crappy thus having the illusion of feeling better than I've ever felt" or it's a genuine improvement. It seems for the first time in my life, I can relax a little. No school, steady job, good friends and good health. I feel I'm closer to achieving self-realization than I've ever been before.
Which gives me the perfect opportunity to go out and seek a partner. So I went ahead and made my friends shoot some pictures of me (that came out awesomely, kudos to them), and re-registered on multiple dating apps/sites. It's been around 2 months and… sigh, it's tiring, although it doesn't get me down as much as previously. The apps themselves are pretty good, all things considered, especially Gayromeo, no subscription or unlimited version needed. Grindr is less useful, and some of the options I'd like are limited to the paid versions (which I'm unwilling to buy). Okcupid seem to be pretty much dead as far as I noticed, which is a shame, since it seems the highest quality out of every dating app. I'm pondering on getting back on Tinder, but I had the least success with that and without being able to message someone unless matched, it just isn't worth the time in my opinion.
The apps are fine. The people on them, less so. It's one thing to not answer (although I try to be fair and just say no when I don't fancy someone) but why do they keep ghosting me after a week? I try to arrange a meeting as soon as possible to see if there's chemistry, but few are willing to meet up for a coffee or tea. It's frustrating, but I'm able to move on (again and again) and try out other things, like that gay club I'm in that has meetups almost every week.
I still feel I'm miles ahead of my older self when it comes to dating, so I guess it's not all wasted.
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Oh hey, it's me again! This time, with some infuriating and depressing news.
The Hungarian government basically wants to make it impossible to change your legal gender in the future.
Some context to this is that for years now, the previously kind of working system of changing legal gender and name for transgender people has been all but shut down. The official reason was that it was being reworked to create a proper system. You might remember me having difficulties as well (in a nutshell: I sent in my request with all the required documentation in the March of 2017, got an answer in August the same year that the process is currently put on hold to be reworked with no concrete deadlines as to when and how it was going to resume; finally in February 2018 I got approved during a small window of maybe one or two months where the process was reopened again with the same rules as before; this consequently got shut down again for good it seems).
Ever since then transpeople still seeking legal gender and name change have been fighting individual court cases with varying degrees of success, but no overall solutions. Multiple organizations are said to be on the case, although I've heard nothing but complaints about one of them (namely Transvanilla, Hungary's main chiefly trans-related organization).Now, with the coronavirus looming over the whole world, the government passed a bill that basically allows our dear King Orbán to rule by decree to be able to better combat the spread and severity of the pandemic at hand. You might find it suspicious and might even point out how problematic this is, but worry not, we are fully aware.
Now for the bill: the so called "salad-bill" (meaning it contains a bigger number of mostly unrelated regulation changes) has one law that would prevent transgender people of changing their legal gender on documents. Your gender would be set in stone at birth basically.
Aside from the obvious problems of "so what would happen to intersex individuals" this bill is horrendously backwards and very much in the vein of "we shouldn't cater to mentally ill people because allowing LGBTQI-people to live peacefully among us will destroy cishetero society and God will send another flood, it's unnatural anyway".
Now, I fully admit that the old system was far from perfect and had some problems that clearly needed to be addressed. The basic rundown for it was:
- get a paper from the psychologists saying you have gender dysphoria and are transsexual (the term used in Hungary in medical documentation);
- get a paper from a clinical psychiatrist saying basically the same;
- get a paper from a gynecologist/urologist that you are not intersex and that there are no underlying medical conditions against starting hormone therapy or getting reassignment surgeries;
Keep in mind, these can cost money. Not every psychologist/psychiatrist was willing to write such papers either because they were unfamiliar with transpeople, refused or were disallowed by the government (not entirely sure how that worked, but I heard of at least one such person who stopped giving out these papers because they were no longer accepted). Some people also had trouble finding willing and sympathetic doctors outside the capital.
- next step is writing a formal request to the relevant authorities, with every piece of document attached as well as paying a smaller fee (aside from postage costs);
- waiting anything from 30 days to a year for the approval or the request for more documentation if the ones already sent in weren't sufficent;
- in case of approval, good, you can go start changing your documents; first is your birth certificate.
This is where things get sort of weird. You see, through this process my old birth certificate was invalidated and I got a new one with my new name and gender, meaning that officially, my birth name is Caleb now. It's basically as if I was born a Caleb, which is obviously not true. I'm pretty sure if the need would arise (like during a criminal investigation), my "true" birth name could be conjured up from somewhere, but it still feels like a sub-optimal solution. I don't know how other countries (where it's possible) do this legal name and gender changing process or what the perfect solution would look like. I'm not really complaining that my "old self" was kind of erased this way, I like the choice of disclosing or not disclosing my transgender status however I feel necessary (aside from medical purposes, obviously), but I can see why the old process needed to be reworked.
This isn't a rework however. Transpeople here are understandably angry and shaken by this, many have renewed interest in going abroad, some are staying to fight, but every one of us in anxious. Even those who had already gone through the process and are able to live our true life (even though I've heard from multiple people that even if this bill passes, it cannot be applied retroactively).
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and She's actually GAINING Followers on twitter for this and I'm just so tired.
They hate us. They just hate us and always will.
I can't take this anymore. The racists and the homophobes and the transphobes are winning. The world is just getting worse and worse.
I haven't hurt anyone! I just want to live my life! Why is the world like this?!
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I'm not going to wast my time reading a piece of opinion of what I think is a mediocre author and an extremely shit person trying to defend her conservative and bigot opinion.
But by her tweets I saw, last weekend I think, I can only imagine the cesspool this is going to be.
I think this user describes perfectly the behavior of this loony:
Daniel Radcliffe's response to those were pretty good too. -
I might read it, just to see what she has to say for herself, but I've already seen her tweets.
I think this kind of bigotry hurts worse than those outright foaming in the mouth. This one is insidious, because it hides behind a veil of false kindness and serene denial. They're not saying we should be burnt at the stake, but they do say giving us the right to be ourselves somehow impedes on their quality of life, thus justifying their rejection. After all, they only want to protect a marginalized group (women) from something they see as a threat.
^Also, that particular tweet. I wondered if they were even mentioned; I thought Rowling only rambled about transwomen.
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Ian's response was an act of class
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Huh. And i thought Rowlings was this extremely progressive person to the point of there being memes about her. This feels unexpected to say the least
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Now, I fully admit that the old system was far from perfect and had some problems that clearly needed to be addressed. The basic rundown for it was:
- get a paper from the psychologists saying you have gender dysphoria and are transsexual (the term used in Hungary in medical documentation);
- get a paper from a clinical psychiatrist saying basically the same;
- get a paper from a gynecologist/urologist that you are not intersex and that there are no underlying medical conditions against starting hormone therapy or getting reassignment surgeries;
Keep in mind, these can cost money. Not every psychologist/psychiatrist was willing to write such papers either because they were unfamiliar with transpeople, refused or were disallowed by the government (not entirely sure how that worked, but I heard of at least one such person who stopped giving out these papers because they were no longer accepted). Some people also had trouble finding willing and sympathetic doctors outside the capital.
Refusing on bias of governmental orders or personal religious/ideological bias wouldn't be against the Gevena's Hippocratic Oath?
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Huh. And i thought Rowlings was this extremely progressive person to the point of there being memes about her. This feels unexpected to say the least
Before knowing that she was a TERF, the only memes that I heard about her was she post scriptum inserting diversity in the books of "wokeness points" in they why "oh by the way Dumbledore was gay" or creating completely crazy worldbuilg ideas as the wizards didn't using toilets before the 20th century or the Hufflepuff group masturbation sessions.
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Huh. And i thought Rowlings was this extremely progressive person to the point of there being memes about her. This feels unexpected to say the least
It has been well-known that she is a TERF for quite some time now. She's just getting much deeper into it now.
It's very nice that Daniel Radcliffe came out and made his statement. Would be nice to see some of the other actors/actresses come out and say something, too.
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Huh. And i thought Rowlings was this extremely progressive person to the point of there being memes about her. This feels unexpected to say the least
I've always been very skeptical of those kinds of social media celebrity super-progressives because they're often fake and doing it for bad reasons (some like to bask in the glory of their own personality cults, others are trying to atone for or cover up bad views, and a few are predators looking to find and take advantage of impressionable fans).
At best there's usually a financial incentive for them to act that way.