We got the TOC.
Are we gonna get the new chapter earlier than usual, because of the double issue? :ninja:
Chapter 783: Path Blocking
-
-
This is exactly my point. If you aren't trying to prove anything you can actually look at the possibilities that are available instead.
I'm not saying that everyone that says it's bullshit is just being stubborn, but dismissing it as not making sense cause you can't follow the reasoning isn't helping at all.
So what you are saying, is that everybody dismissing it as not making sense lacks your superior ability of reading comprehension… only a bit nicer.
That's quite a roundabout way to call people idiots, imho.
Especially when it is not nearly as clear as you make it out to be.
-
If you want to be the number one poster in the number one thread of the number one One Piece forum, it's cool. Just try to be the number one fan aswell.
With great power comes great responsibility. -
No, just read the dialogue instead of just my post
I'm not discussing fuji motives to have an intact birdcage or not. I'm merely pointing that the physical real world explanation might not be enough to back up the plot armament you're talking about. If that's not.your point then it completely went over my head. If you don't want to explain it then i guess the discussion stops here.
-
16 chars of double post
-
No, that's not what I was trying to say at all. I'm not sure why you're even trying to say that I know how it all works, cause I don't. I just explain my point of view, that might or might not be right. How are you even spinning this to make me call people idiots and lacking in reading comprehension?
I'm saying people rather defend their initial stance than try and figure out Oda's reasoning, that has nothing to do with reading comprehension, it only means I think people should look at it more from Oda's perspective instead of trying to prove they're right.
A) People are entirely within their right to disregard Oda's perspective, as per Death of the Author school of literaly critisism.
B) "dismissing it as not making sense cause you can't follow the reasoning isn't helping at all." is what you said. It quite easily interpreted as: if you say that it is not making sense, you can't follow the reasoning. Especially within the light of people frequently using the counter-argument of intention, as if everybody critisising how nonsensical Fujitora's behaviour is within the realms of the series and common sense alike somehow managed to miss every incredibly obvious line of dialogue.
-
Edit: Now that i think about it… It's also entirely possible that fuji is able to destroy the birdcage by raining multiple meteors on the same spot. Problem is the collateral damage would'verse been really really bad.
With plot magic, Fuji could have done any number of things with gravity. Suspend a meteor in the air just to burn the birdcage, use anti-gravity on the string and make it float away/spread out enough for a gap to leave, or make a massive hole in the ground and try to escape that way. Of course though, the current plot is supposed to be about a man whose power is more threatening than an admiral, yonkou commander and revolutionary second in command altogether.
-
In the end Fuji-Tora will save the day or not:ninja:
-
So what you are saying, is that everybody dismissing it as not making sense lacks your superior ability of reading comprehension… only a bit nicer.
That's quite a roundabout way to call people idiots, imho.Seems fair. After all, you are arguing that Oda is an idiot.
-
Seems fair. After all, you are arguing that Oda is an idiot.
No, I'm critising his work. And yes, I fully acknowledge that an intelligent person may, for whatever reason, decide to write a work that is less then perfect.
And I would still do it. My words are at least less mean spirited then what most people on the board are saying about Kishi and Kubo all the time.
And yes, I'm well aware that in the eyes of many One Piece does not warrants any kind of critique, ever. I do not care.
Similary, I do not think only critique is warranted, as credit where credit is due, we need to acknowledge positives as well.
-
It is a testament to characters presence.
Admirals and Yonko are THE top. They have been build up so much, that the very thought of somebody of that caliber being sidelined to that degree is incomprehensible.
Just because they're "the top", it doesn't mean that they need to play a primary role in whatever event they're currently on.
-
Fujitora just doesn't wanna do it.
A man can has the right to decide what he wants to do or not, right? :ninja: -
Fuji is a new character. You can't say that his actions are out of character when they actually established his character for the very first time.
You don't know Oda's new characters better than he does.
-
Hey, new here. Been a fan of One Piece for years now. As I've gotten older, my time gets taken up with other things but this fight..as got me so hype.. I want to see a war. Similar to Crocodile or Lucci. That gating vs the latter was beyond epic…anywho this fight has got my interest back and itching for next chapter...
-
@DHL:
I don't believe Luffys exhausted from trying to get to the palace. It really hasn't been focused on to show Luffy is handicapped.
Flamingo has had a small scuffle with an ex-admiral, heads back to Dressrosa and is slicing up meteors, chasing Law off panel, fought Sanji, then Law again properly, Luffy in the palace. Later on Law and Luffy teamed to get a red Hawk in. Doflamingo has a fight with a Shichibukai who devoted his entire Life to killing him, He then takes a Gamma knife and now you have Luffy vs Doflamingo.
Luffy has had small fights in the colloseum. Fought chinjao. Luffy cleared some fodder on his way to the palace whilst riding a bull for some time. Fought more fodder. Had a small scuffle with flamingo. Fought more fodder, ran to the palace. Fought a string clone, took a couple hits from Bellamy.
I would say when Luffy and Law reached Flamingo in Ch.758 Luffy and Flamingo were 100% ignoring the rest.
Keep in mind that Doula could have used Mansherry to heal himself from Green Bit. And that his fight with Law in the palace was assisted by Trébol.
It would explain the missing wound Law gave him.
-
Just because they're "the top", it doesn't mean that they need to play a primary role in whatever event they're currently on.
Their lack of action becomes more apparent however - if it was Bastille no one would give a second thought. Also worth noting that admirals have had an important role so far every time they have made an extensive appearance.
-
Fujitora just doesn't wanna do it.
A man can has the right to decide what he wants to do or not, right? :ninja:I don't think that's how military work.
-
Just because they're "the top", it doesn't mean that they need to play a primary role in whatever event they're currently on.
What we are talking here is a matter of degree. It doesn't need to be that he is either completly sidelined, or playing primary role, you know.
And even then, every single time Admirals participated in the story directly, they've had a substantial impact. More so than Fujitora does on this arc.
And I was describing why people have certain expectations of the character, and why they bring him up so much.
Though personal note: I consider putting such important character into the story for seemingly little purpoes to be wasteful.
-
Their lack of action becomes more apparent however - if it was Bastille no one would give a second thought. Also worth noting that admirals have had an important role so far every time they have made an extensive appearance.
Fuji isn't just an admiral, he is a character with personality. He thinks differently, therefore acts differently than others. And I don't think other admirals have done much, really. They just had fun most of the time, except Sakazuki of course.
I don't think that's how military work.
I doubt he shares the same views though and he has enough authority to do as he does at the moment.
-
Fuji is a new character. You can't say that his actions are out of character when they actually established his character for the very first time.
You don't know Oda's new characters better than he does.
That seems like such stereotypical fanboy response. "Yeah, sure his actions are contradictory to what little has been established about him, but you just don't get the big plan, man!"
If Oda would turn Sakazuki into ethical humanitarian that is a saint greater than Saint Francis, that loves to help poor little birds and brings presents to all little rascals that just want to do something good in the world, but are called pirates, you would still argue that he knows what he's doing, and there is nothing wrong with the blantant out of character writing, we just don't get it yet.
-
They just had fun most of the time, except Sakazuki of course.
That's not true, Akainu has boat loads of fun :ninja:
-
Fuji isn't just an admiral, he is a character with personality. He thinks differently, therefore acts differently than others. And I don't think other admirals have done much, really. They just had fun most of the time, except Sakazuki of course.
Aokiji is directly responsible for entire plot of Enies Lobby and creation of Gear Second and Gear Third.
Kizaru beaten four supernovas with the effort one puts into making toasts.
And Sakazuki killed protagonist brother, and ripped a quater of Yonko's head on his debut.
Fujitora does not compare to them in either feats nor plot importance. That's why people are so disappointed in him.
-
Fuji is a new character. You can't say that his actions are out of character when they actually established his character for the very first time.
You don't know Oda's new characters better than he does.
Well it's like implying that Fujitora will kill Mihawk in order to erase the Shikibukai system and Zoro will have to avenge him…oh, wait, i'm not Oda!
-
Fuji isn't just an admiral, he is a character with personality. He thinks differently, therefore acts differently than others. And I don't think other admirals have done much, really. They just had fun most of the time, except Sakazuki of course.
Sure, but he doesn't have that title for nothing. And it is only natural to expect one of the highest ranking members of the marines to have a significant role in whatever he is doing. He may have a plan of course, but until it is revealed, him being sidelined is a valid concern.
And as for the other admirals not having done much, I disagree. Kizaru and Sakazuki both had prominent roles in the arcs they appeared in.
-
Fujitora is different, he was conscripted. He isn't the typical Admiral in the sense that they believe in the World Government and the Marines. Now that he has a very formidable position in the world he wants to accomplish certain goals.
He's going to get rid of the the shichibukai system. That's fairly big time in terms of plot. And it's a long term goal, it's not going to be accomplished in one arc, but when it's done it'll have gigantic repercussions in the storyline -
I doubt he shares the same views though and he has enough authority to do as he does at the moment.
Then he wouldn't need Sabo as an excuse.
-
Fujitora is different, he was conscripted. He isn't the typical Admiral in the sense that they believe in the World Government and the Marines. Now that he has a very formidable position in the world he wants to accomplish certain goals.
He's going to get rid of the the shichibukai system. That's fairly big time in terms of plot. And it's a long term goal, it's not going to be accomplished in one arc, but when it's done it'll have gigantic repercussions in the storylineWhy does everyone forgets that he also has other traits established beyond taking down Shichibukai?
You are making him seem like a one note character, when he is not.
-
If Oda would turn Sakazuki into ethical humanitarian that is a saint greater than Saint Francis, that loves to help poor little birds and brings presents to all little rascals that just want to do something good in the world, but are called pirates, you would still argue that he knows what he's doing, and there is nothing wrong with the blantant out of character writing, we just don't get it yet.
Unlike Akainu, Fuji is a new character. You can't say that his actions are out of character when they actually established his character for the very first time.
You don't know Oda's new character better than he does. This is the first appearance of Fuji in the story. What he does now isn't out of character, it defines his character.
@BingBang:Well it's like implying that Fujitora will kill Mihawk in order to erase the Shikibukai system and Zoro will have to avenge him…oh, wait, i'm not Oda!
Sorry BingBang, I don't get it :wassat:
-
Unlike Akainu, Fuji is a new character. You can't say that his actions are out of character when they actually established his character for the very first time.
You don't know Oda's new character better than he does. This is the first appearance of Fuji in the story. What he does now isn't out of character, it defines his character.And when is a trait sufficiently established?
-
How many times did Oda draw a completely black panel like the one at the end of the chapter ? :wassat:
Oda has been reading Bleach lately.
He made last part of Law vs Doffy alike with Aizen trolling, Luffys stomp stop looked like Kenseis same thing from some time ago and now when Luffy goeas into gear 4th we get "Bankai-like" ending panel of chapter. That is my impression at least :ninja:
-
Why does everyone forgets that he also has other traits established beyond taking down Shichibukai?
You are making him seem like a one note character, when he is not.
I know he is not, that's why he's a very interesting character. Taking down the shichibukai system is what he will be known for, at least to us the readers the most. In my opinion he's right there with Aokiji in terms of being an interesting Admiral.
I look forward to his actions in the storyline.
-
Keep in mind that Doula could have used Mansherry to heal himself from Green Bit. And that his fight with Law in the palace was assisted by Trébol.
It would explain the missing wound Law gave him.
His strings patching up his cheek would also make sense I guess.
-
A) People are entirely within their right to disregard Oda's perspective, as per Death of the Author school of literaly critisism.
Have I ever said you can't? Or was it something that could be 'interpreted' in my wording? Apparently you can also disregard my perspective and just come up with your own version of my perspective.
B) "dismissing it as not making sense cause you can't follow the reasoning isn't helping at all." is what you said. It quite easily interpreted as: if you say that it is not making sense, you can't follow the reasoning. Especially within the light of people frequently using the counter-argument of intention, as if everybody critisising how nonsensical Fujitora's behaviour is within the realms of the series and common sense alike somehow managed to miss every incredibly obvious line of dialogue.
That is wrongly interpreted by you then, and I apologize for not wording it well enough for you I guess? :getlost:
-
I know he is not, that's why he's a very interesting character. Taking down the shichibukai system is what he will be known for, at least to us the readers the most. In my opinion he's right there with Aokiji in terms of being an interesting Admiral.
I look forward to his actions in the storyline.
I don't buy it for a second.
It would be a positive action perpetrated by a member of the marines. It is doomed to fail by Oda's storyline.
At best, he will make matters worst by taking the title down, as all of the members will runs loose and break havoc, with marines unable to stop them.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Have I ever said you can't? Or was it something that could be 'interpreted' in my wording? Apparently you can also disregard my perspective and just come up with your own version of my perspective.
That is wrongly interpreted by you then, and I apologize for not wording it well enough for you I guess? :getlost:
Shrugs I can only work with what I am given. I don't know you personally and intricacies of your thought are lost on me.
Though, you say so, I have to admit to not having any idea what you actually meant.
-
I don't buy it for a second.
It would be a positive action perpetrated by a member of the marines. It is doomed to fail by Oda's storyline.
At best, he will make matters worst by taking the title down, as all of the members will runs loose and break havoc, with marines unable to stop them.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Shrugs I can only work with what I am given. I don't know you personally and intricacies of your thought are lost on me.
Though, you say so, I have to admit to not having any idea what you actually meant.
It's ok, no worries
-
Aokiji is directly responsible for entire plot of Enies Lobby and creation of Gear Second and Gear Third.
Kizaru beaten four supernovas with the effort one puts into making toasts.
And Sakazuki killed protagonist brother, and ripped a quater of Yonko's head on his debut.
Fujitora does not compare to them in either feats nor plot importance. That's why people are so disappointed in him.
Well, Sengoku, whose rank was even higher than any of those guys, has not done much either. During the war, he just stood there most of the time.
-
Aokiji is directly responsible for entire plot of Enies Lobby and creation of Gear Second and Gear Third.
He is just responsible for Robin being caught, the rest has nothing to do with the him. And he did all that for personal reasons too. And in the end he didn't do a thing to stop strawhats or Robin after the defeat of cp9.
Kizaru beaten four supernovas with the effort one puts into making toasts.
He was just having fun, and had to do it just not to cause conflict with tenryuubitos, yes he was kinda main thing during that arc, there were tons of fights, but he didn't really do anything special on a bigger picture.
Fujitora does not compare to them in either feats nor plot importance. That's why people are so disappointed in him.
He just appeared. And it is apparent at this point that he will have an importance and even his lack of action means a lot to me, it shows another aspect of a character's personality.
And Sakazuki killed protagonist brother, and ripped a quater of Yonko's head on his debut.
And as for the other admirals not having done much, I disagree. Kizaru and Sakazuki both had prominent roles in the arcs they appeared in.
I said except Sakazuki~
-
Well, Sengoku, whose rank was even higher than any of those guys, has not done much either.
But Sengoku is, for all intent and purpoeses, a hero of another story. His time was in the past, when Roger and Whitebeard were at the height of their power.
Fujitora's time is now. He is present in the arc, and intricate part of it, with major panel time. That is different from Sengoku, who appeared once in a while to just comment on the state of the world, with the exception of the war.
And lest you forget, at the time, his inaction for the most of it was a major critisism.
-
Well, Sengoku, whose rank was even higher than any of those guys, has not done much either. During the war, he just stood there most of the time.
Sengoku may have not have been brilliantly portrayed in the manga so far, but by only reputation I like him the most out of all the admirals, I really do hope we can see more of his skills in some kinda flashback in the future.
Aokiji when first portrayed just defeated the sh's, something fujitora could have easily done at the time, fujitora clearly showed he could take out doflamingo effortlessly, and i think his devil fruit is boss.
Fujitora is just as strong and infulential as the past 3 admirals, give him time.
-
I don't buy it for a second.
It would be a positive action perpetrated by a member of the marines. It is doomed to fail by Oda's storyline.
At best, he will make matters worst by taking the title down, as all of the members will runs loose and break havoc, with marines unable to stop them.
You don't have to buy it, him playing a big role in getting rid of the Shichibukai system is going to happen regardless. You can't claim it'll be doomed to fail when it's not even remotely close to being accomplished. Getting ahead of yourself there buddy.
And as a proponent of Blackbeard, I have no problem with more chaos in the OP universe ;)
-
He is just responsible for Robin being caught, the rest has nothing to do with the him. And he did all that for personal reasons too. And in the end he didn't do a thing to stop strawhats or Robin after the defeat of cp9.
A) He was not persoanlly present at Enies Lobby.
B) Does not change the fact that the entire arc would not come to pass if not for him. He is the nail.
He was just having fun, and had to do it just not to cause conflict with tenryuubitos, yes he was kinda main thing during that arc, there were tons of fights, but he didn't really do anything special on a bigger picture.
Last time I checked, nobody demanded anything more than that from Fujitora.
He just appeared. And it is apparent at this point that he will have an importance and even his lack of action means a lot to me, it shows another aspect of a character's personality.
Please elaborate on what aspect of his personality does his inaction supports.
I said except Sakazuki~
Well, at least in that we agree. But you see, Sakazuki's credebility is on the line as well. Fujitora is one of his Admirals. He is basically first asset we have seen that wasn't inherited by Sakazuki with the position.
And he is just infuriatingly passive, for someone who is on good enough terms with Red Dog to call him Saka-san.
-
Why is Fujitora not doing anything about Doflamingo's cage? He could easily push it back with his powers, or even sever it at the source.
Could we say that, without really knowing how DD's ability works in the 1st place?
His strings can hang on clouds, with his weight, and possibly much more added onto that, not really sure the limits of what or why he can do things.
Partially also speaking for Fujitora, (possible some1 already mentioned this), but we don't really know how his powers would effect DD's strings, alone, in Oda's mind.Aokiji is directly responsible for entire plot of Enies Lobby and creation of Gear Second and Gear Third.
Kizaru beaten four supernovas with the effort one puts into making toasts.
And Sakazuki killed protagonist brother, and ripped a quater of Yonko's head on his debut.
Fujitora does not compare to them in either feats nor plot importance. That's why people are so disappointed in him.
I'd say,
Ao Kiji is debatable, and Kizaru is moreso whoever's personal opinion. If you agree, so be it, and if not, so be it.But it's funny how you left out exactly when both Kizaru, and Akainu did these "oh so impactful things".
That being at the end of their comparatively much shorter arcs.
Yes Fujitora might have been in Dressrosa for longer/ more chapters; but if their impact can be at the end, with it still being "impactful", why can't Fujitora be cut that same leverage?And when is a trait sufficiently established?
Probably more than just a few hours in-universe time.
-
But Sengoku is, for all intent and purpoeses, a hero of another story. His time was in the past, when Roger and Whitebeard were at the height of their power.
Fujitora's time is now. He is present in the arc, and intricate part of it, with major panel time. That is different from Sengoku, who appeared once in a while to just comment on the state of the world, with the exception of the war.
And lest you forget, at the time, his inaction for the most of it was a major critisism.
Different characters have different ways to approach things. Fujitora doesn't really have to follow the standards set by other Admirals.
-
You don't have to buy it, him playing a big role in getting rid of the Shichibukai system is going to happen regardless. You can't claim it'll be doomed to fail when it's not even remotely close to being accomplished. Getting ahead of yourself there buddy.
I dunno. Every time marines are in the position to do something positive (Alabasta, Dressrosa), they are forced by plot to not act, usually on quite weak motives.
Fujitora taking down Shichibukai system is, I just realised, kinda meaningless. Out of seven current members, two are stripped of their rank (Doflamingo and Law), one is striped of his free will (Kuma), one has immunity because he is plucky comic relief (Buggy), one has immunity because he is a rival of main character (Mihawk), one has immunity because of bullshit and being main protagonist friend (Hancock) and one is unknown, which probably means he is an enemy for Luffy to defeat.
I ask you: If marines will be unable to arrest even one of them (and let's be realistic here, they probably will), what is even the point?
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Different characters have different ways to approach things. Fujitora doesn't really have to follow the standards set by other Admirals.
Neither does he have to follow the standards set by himself, apparently.
-
Fujitora taking down Shichibukai system is, I just realised, kinda meaningless. Out of seven current members, two are stripped of their rank (Doflamingo and Law), one is striped of his free will (Kuma), one has immunity because he is plucky comic relief (Buggy), one has immunity because he is a rival of main character (Mihawk), one has immunity because of bullshit and being main protagonist friend (Hancock) and one is unknown, which probably means he is an enemy for Luffy to defeat.
I ask you: If marines will be unable to arrest even one of them (and let's be realistic here, they probably will), what is even the point?
To prevent replacements?
-
At first I was like:
'I care about civilians!'
The I was like:
'Oh look, Birdcage shrinks and will kill a country full of civilians and likely myself in no time. But no! I must resist, the pirate I gamble on must take Doflamingo down. If the country and me must die to show how bad warlords are, so be it eats some ramen'.
-
Last time I checked, nobody demanded anything more than that from Fujitora.
Please elaborate on what aspect of his personality does his inaction supports.I mean, I prefer to be introduced to character's personality first to seeing him only in action and nothing else.
The one which makes him consider that they aren't gods, and that he needs to only pay attention to people's safety as much as non-interference with Doffy's things allows him.
And the fact that he realises, taking down Doflamingo won't change a thing on larger view, well.. I am still going to that Shichibukai institute thing xDIf marines will be unable to arrest even one of them (and let's be realistic here, they probably will), what is even the point?
They can't arrest many many pirates generally. But at the moment, they are aiding Shichibukai's and their works. Even an attempt of capturing and the pirates themselves fearing it, would give them much less freedom.
However it is true that marines would need stronger force, for the balance or whatever it is. -
I dunno. Every time marines are in the position to do something positive (Alabasta, Dressrosa), they are forced by plot to not act, usually on quite weak motives.
Fujitora taking down Shichibukai system is, I just realised, kinda meaningless. Out of seven current members, two are stripped of their rank (Doflamingo and Law), one is striped of his free will (Kuma), one has immunity because he is plucky comic relief (Buggy), one has immunity because he is a rival of main character (Mihawk), one has immunity because of bullshit and being main protagonist friend (Hancock) and one is unknown, which probably means he is an enemy for Luffy to defeat.
I ask you: If marines will be unable to arrest even one of them (and let's be realistic here, they probably will), what is even the point?Just think of it this way. If the worst generation starts attacking Yonko while the Shichibukai and Marines are intact, it would create a huge plot hole as to why the Marines combined with Shichibukai aren't using the power gap to establish their supremacy.
Falling of the Shichibukai keeps the Marines and Shichibukai busy amongst themselves while the new generation starts wrecking havoc among the Yonko army. -
@uniaka:
'I care about civilians!'
Nay it was more like, "I don't wanna interfere with Doffy, I at least should do that" XD
-