Chapter 756: The 4th level

vagabond87

This is hilarious coming from you.

"He killed all those Ohara people, but it was to prevent a certain person from escaping, so it's okay".

"The Marines are killing all those pregnant women and babies, but it is to prevent the son of a dangerous criminal from being born, so it's okay".

What matters is that Viola has never been shown doing something truly horrible and has been portrayed in a positive light pretty much for the majority of her time. The villain reveal itself doesn't even last an entire chapter. That's more than I can say for Robin or even Vivi.

There is so many amazing things to do and week after week I see people trying to change Darths complaining ass. I tried myself to change his perspective with few posts but after many many weeks it doesnt seem
like he changed at all lol so why not use time for reading something awesome and just go and argue with Darth over almost everything he says?

I get that this is place for discussion etc but at same time I look here from time to time and see same situation- thread dominated by Darth complaining and people arguing with him..
I admit that I am stubborn with some things but at same time I get other peoples point of view but this really feels here - Darth discussion - like he doesnt get it so why you keep going with it King Cannon?

Darth

@King:

This is hilarious coming from you.

"He killed all those Ohara people, but it was to prevent a certain person from escaping, so it's okay (even though this person ended up escaping anyway)".

"The Marines are killing all those pregnant women and babies, but it is to prevent the son of a dangerous criminal from being born, so it's okay".

What matters is that Viola has never been shown doing something truly horrible and has been portrayed in a positive light pretty much for the majority of her time. The villain reveal itself doesn't even last an entire chapter. That's more than I can say for Robin or even Vivi.

I find inability to discern between what's most practical, and what's actually moraly evil is disturbing to say the least.

Not to mention we are dealing with two completly different situations here.

And the argument that we never saw her do anything truly horrible is, to put it simply, baffling. You know why? Because we hardly saw any other executives doing something terrible, or moraly despicable. They are only seen evil by affiliation.

And yet Viola get's a free pass? Intention is important, but not important enough to wipe everything person has actually done.

Downloading

@Darth:

I find inability to discern between what's most practical, and what's actually moraly evil is disturbing to say the least.

Not to mention we are dealing with two completly different situations here.

And the argument that we never saw her do anything truly horrible is, to put it simply, baffling. You know why? Because we hardly saw any other executives doing something terrible, or moraly despicable. They are only seen evil by affiliation.

And yet Viola get's a free pass? Intention is important, but not important enough to wipe everything person has actually done.

She was an assassin and she probably killed a lot of pirates and because of that you label her as evil. But Akainu gets a free pass when he kills pirates, innocent civilians and his own Marines?

And Diamante killing Rebecca's mother isn't a terrible thing? Helping your boss to overthrow the king of a country is also ok? Nah, I guess they really didn't do anything terrible…

Tangaroa

@Darth:

Pah. I just hate protagonist centered morality. For example, I'm well aware that in fight between Luffy and Hannyabal I'm suppose to root for Luffy, because he is trying to save his brother and all that crap.

Still rooted for Hannyabal.

I'm pretty sure you were supposed to. It was a great moment turning things on it's head and showing Luffy may be the protagonist but he's pretty amoral.

Another was in FI when Zoro cut a ship in half for a mistake he made.
There was also the story of how Roger destroyed a country because of an insult to one of his crew.

I think Oda has been making very definite points about how the more powerful these characters get, the more morality becomes almost beside the point.
The Admirals have chosen their form of 'justice' and respect for human life does not seem to come into it. Big Mom threatens Fishman Island on the principle of being the pirate She says she is.
Despite Luffy being the Hero, and a pretty good guy, the collateral effects are becoming more terrible.

Light Bro

@Darth:

Pah. I just hate protagonist centered morality. For example, I'm well aware that in fight between Luffy and Hannyabal I'm suppose to root for Luffy, because he is trying to save his brother and all that crap.

Still rooted for Hannyabal.

To be fair, I think Oda wanted us to at least question Luffy's actions there. Why else would he have Hannya point out their consequences? (Even if most of the escapees happened to end up following Buggy.)

@Downloading:

She was an assassin and she probably killed a lot of pirates and because of that you label her as evil.

Who said she only killed pirates? They could have been Marines and civilians as well, anyone who happened to cross paths with Doffy.

Darth

@Downloading:

She was an assassin and she probably killed a lot of pirates and because of that you label her as evil. But Akainu gets a free pass when he kills pirates, innocent civilians and his own Marines?

Ehm… no? Solely moraly speaking, Akainu is a despicable person. Not to mention a psychopath. He get's a free pass because his ends justify the means, and because he is efficient at what he does.

Viola on the other hand, and her return to the side of "good" is handled poorly. Like the whole Riku family.

As I said before, you guys really need to read what I write. They are both evil. In fact, I have trouble finding even one person I could label as clearly good in the series.

And convieniently, you act as if only enemies Doflamingo could have are pirates, and he never, ever hurt an innocent person in his life.

Or, say, order Violet to do it to test her loyalty.

Or ordered her to take part in the more moraly despicable acts of family. Like slavery. Or human experimentation. Or weapon trade.

@Downloading:

And Diamante killing Rebecca's mother isn't a terrible thing? Helping your boss to overthrow the king of a country is also ok? Nah, I guess they really didn't do anything terrible…

Oh please, everyone kills those. Being a mother in One Piece is basicaly a death sentence. But I will give you that, cold blooded murder is a terrible thing.

Of course, not when a character we like does it, but hey. That's what you get for not being protagonist.

Also, overthrowing the country not being a terrible thing: Kohza.

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@Tangaroa:

I'm pretty sure you were supposed to. It was a great moment turning things on it's head and showing Luffy may be the protagonist but he's pretty amoral.

Another was in FI when Zoro cut a ship in half for a mistake he made.
There was also the story of how Roger destroyed a country because of an insult to one of his crew.

I think Oda has been making very definite points about how the more powerful these characters get, the more morality becomes almost beside the point.
The Admirals have chosen their form of 'justice' and respect for human life does not seem to come into it. Big Mom threatens Fishman Island on the principle of being the pirate She says she is.
Despite Luffy being the Hero, and a pretty good guy, the collateral effects are becoming more terrible.

I know. Moral ambiguity is one of the reasons I actually like the manga.

It's trying to paint the entire thing as perfectly black and white, with Good vs Evil is what pisses me off.

Downloading

@Light:

Who said she only killed pirates? They could have been Marines and civilians as well, anyone who happened to cross paths with Doffy.

Doffy was/is a Shichibukai, so the Marines wouldn't/couldn't touch him and I doubt that some random civilian would cross paths with him.

Darth

@Light:

To be fair, I think Oda wanted us to at least question Luffy's actions there. Why else would he have Hannya point out their consequences? (Even if most of the escapees happened to end up following Buggy.)

That's what I hope was his intention. Was it though? I honestly can't tell.

@Light:

Who said she only killed pirates? They could have been Marines and civilians as well, anyone who happened to cross paths with Doffy.

That's what we call eristic argument.

Tyrano

Good ol' chapter discussion thread never changes LOL

Hope we see the actual battle Rebecca vs Diamante this week

Darth

@Downloading:

Doffy was/is a Shichibukai, so the Marines wouldn't/couldn't touch him and I doubt that some random civilian would cross paths with him.

Which is precisly why he has that many toys of random people around, sure. Including marines.

And while we are at, gladiators.

Oh, and the innocent children at PH.

You are trying too hard.

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@Tyrano:

Good ol' chapter discussion thread never changes LOL

Because there honestly very little happening at the moment, except for people getting into places.

@Tyrano:

Hope we see the actual battle Rebecca vs Diamante this week

I hope so too, but it's Oda. I expect curbstomp, crying, and rescue from her father.

Light Bro

@Downloading:

Doffy was/is a Shichibukai, so the Marines wouldn't/couldn't touch him and I doubt that some random civilian would cross paths with him.

He was rolling an underground brokering business. There were probably a couple of instances he had to silence someone who happened to be in a wrong place at the wrong time. Of course he seemed to prefer turning them to toys but Viola was called an assassin. That has to mean something right?

SunnyBlue

@Darth:

It's trying to paint the entire thing as perfectly black and white, with Good vs Evil is what pisses me off.

I'm pretty sure nobody is doing that. Isn't the whole point of the arguments for the past few pages about shades of grey in terms of morality.

The strawhats aren't morally good but they are still the "good" guys based on the way Oda portray them.
Likewise, Viola is on the "good" side. Sure, she could have done some morally despicable shit during her time as an officer. But based on the way Oda portray her, she's a good person.

Tyrano

This post is deleted!

Darth

@SunnyBlue:

I'm pretty sure nobody is doing that. Isn't the whole point of the arguments for the past few pages about shades of grey in terms of morality.

The strawhats aren't morally good but they are still the "good" guys based on the way Oda portray them.
Likewise, Viola is on the "good" side. Sure, she could have done some morally despicable shit during her time as an officer. But based on the way Oda portray her, she's a good person.

Hmph. "Good" side indeed. And it would've helped if half of her actions were not so utterly stupid.

It actually hurts her credibility as said good person, when she could be doing more to deal with Doflamingo, but doesn't.

Downloading

@Darth:

Ehm… no? Solely moraly speaking, Akainu is a despicable person. Not to mention a psychopath. He get's a free pass because his ends justify the means, and because he is efficient at what he does.

Viola on the other hand, and her return to the side of "good" is handled poorly. Like the whole Riku family.

As I said before, you guys really need to read what I write. They are both evil. In fact, I have trouble finding even one person I could label as clearly good in the series.

And convieniently, you act as if only enemies Doflamingo could have are pirates, and he never, ever hurt an innocent person in his life.

Or, say, order Violet to do it to test her loyalty.

Or ordered her to take part in the more moraly despicable acts of family. Like slavery. Or human experimentation. Or weapon trade.

Oh please, everyone kills those. Being a mother in One Piece is basicaly a death sentence. But I will give you that, cold blooded murder is a terrible thing.

Of course, not when a character we like does it, but hey. That's what you get for not being protagonist.

Also, overthrowing the country not being a terrible thing: Kohza.

@Light:

He was rolling an underground brokering business. There were probably a couple of instances he had to silence someone who happened to be in a wrong place at the wrong time. Of course he seemed to prefer turning them to toys but Viola was called an assassin. That has to mean something right?

You are trying so hard to label her as evil based on what she could've done in the past and not on what she actually did/what we've seen in the manga (because we haven't seen anything so everything you say is just pure speculation)… Yes, she was an assassin and she did some fucked up things for sure(which she had to to), but at the end of the day she is still a good person (and Oda potrays her as that). So please, just stop overanalyzing and complicating stuff just because you are bored and have nothing else to discuss because "there is very little happening at the moment, except for people getting into places."

Oh, and Darth, you know well what I meant when I said that about overthrowing a country so don't pretend to be stupid. Kohza's situation was completely different than Mingo's.

Light Bro

I'm not saying she's evil. Anything she may have done she did to protect her loved ones, but we still can't ignore the deeds themselves just because they weren't shown. Personally I'd label her… more morally ambiguous than anything. Just like most of the Straw Hats' allies.

SunnyBlue

@Darth:

Hmph. "Good" side indeed. And it would've helped if half of her actions were not so utterly stupid.

It actually hurts her credibility as said good person, when she could be doing more to deal with Doflamingo, but doesn't.

What else can she do against Doflamingo? She's practically powerless against him. At best, she can only provide information to others who want to take him down which is what she has been doing this entire arc.
She provided Sanji with the map of the factory and told him about Doflamingo's "resignation". She helped Luffy, Zoro and Kinemon to enter the palace. She told Luffy and co about Pica's ability. She had the key to Law's handcuff. She told the dwarves where Princess Manshelly was.
What more can she do?

Darth

@SunnyBlue:

What else can she do against Doflamingo? She's practically powerless against him. At best, she can only provide information to others who want to take him down which is what she has been doing this entire arc.
She provided Sanji with the map of the factory and told him about Doflamingo's "resignation". She helped Luffy, Zoro and Kinemon to enter the palace. She told Luffy and co about Pica's ability. She had the key to Law's handcuff. She told the dwarves where Princess Manshelly was.
What more can she do?

Exactly what I mean. She can provide the information to others. Any others.

She chooses to do so to Straw Hats, and ONLY Straw Hats.

Now, we know it's because of their main character status. But in universe, this makes no sense.

Altough now I'm getting curious as to how will Dressrosa survive…

SunnyBlue

@Darth:

Exactly what I mean. She can provide the information to others. Any others.

She chooses to do so to Straw Hats, and ONLY Straw Hats.

Now, we know it's because of their main character status. But in universe, this makes no sense.

Altough now I'm getting curious as to how will Dressrosa survive…

She told the dwarves where Princess manshelly is. They are not strawhats.
It makes perfect sense for her to tell them since they are the one heading towards the palace. She also placed their trust in them hence she gives them info.
Who else can she tell?
She can't give info to the civilian since they want to catch her and her father. They are also too afraid to fight back.
She can't tell info to the colleseum fighters since she doesn't even know them.
She won't tell the marine anything.
Look, if Fujitore finally decide to do something about the situation in Dressrosa, she may be willing to help him if he convince her that he's on her side. Until then, not gonna happen.

Cyan D. Funk

Darth you defend Akainu killing innocent people, why does Viola offend you so much.

Tyrano

She should have gone to Marines of course. How dare she just ignore the strongest law enforcement in this universe and make them irrelevant! !

Darth

@Cyan:

Darth you defend Akainu killing innocent people, why does Viola offend you so much.

Because you guys refer to her as good.

I might defend viability of his actions, but for fucks sake, at least I acknowledge he isn't moraly sound. Or mentally sound.

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@Tyrano:

She should have gone to Marines of course. How dare she just ignore the strongest law enforcement in this universe and make them irrelevant! !

Is there any reason not to?

I could perhaps argue that there existed no possibility for that during the last ten years. I could. Doflamingo could confine her to the island, have all of the dealings regarding Dressrosa perfomed by Vergo, he eliminated Marines and Goverment Agents by changing them into toys.

The moment Admiral is on the island, she has no reason to not gone to him. None. None at all.

SunnyBlue

Again, most of us meant she is on the "good" side, not morally good. Like the strawhats.

Tyrano

How dare she ask the main characters of a shonen manga and not my favorite bunch of characters to make them look good!!
They are clearly the strongest! Admirals can just fix everything but why doesn't she ask their help??? Mind. Blown.
She's so stupid! She's morally ambiguous!!!! She's blah blah etc etc

Cyan D. Funk

The marines were so useful in dealing with Viola's country getting taken over by a known crime boss and his lackeys.

Darth

@SunnyBlue:

Again, most of us meant she is on the "good" side, not morally good. Like the strawhats.

I have trouble grasping what your guys definition of "good" is. That she aligned with protagonist? That she fights with Doflamingo and therefore is good by being lesser evil?

Imagine the crazy world I live in, where person who does moraly evil things is not considered good or refered to as such. Insane, I know.

RamistaR

@Darth:

Exactly what I mean. She can provide the information to others. Any others.

She chooses to do so to Straw Hats, and ONLY Straw Hats.

Now, we know it's because of their main character status. But in universe, this makes no sense.

First, LOVE! Sanji is a strawhat, not a marine.
Second, common interest. I think it's not a stretch to say that in ten years, they are the only strong organisation that came on Dressrosa with the sole purpose of destroying the secret smile factory. The marines were clearly there for Luffy, Law and the gladiators.

Darth

@Cyan:

The marines were so useful in dealing with Viola's country getting taken over by a known crime boss and his lackeys.

So were the citizens of the country.

I love how you call me out on being authoritarian and yet act as if law enforcers should be all like Punisher.

To the outside the situation looks like this: King went crazy, tried to burn his country and murder his citizens after robbing them blind, got stopped by a pirate, who got hailed a hero by the citizens, and is willing to work for us.

But if, for example, Marines assaulted Vivi and Cobra for hiding know criminals (Straw Hats), then you would be all like "They are evil, authoritorian regime that needs to be put down!".

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@RamistaR:

First, LOVE! Sanji is a strawhat, not a marine.
Second, common interest. I think it's not a stretch to say that in ten years, they are the only strong organisation that came on Dressrosa with the sole purpose of destroying the secret smile factory. The marines were clearly there for Luffy, Law and the gladiators.

A) Viola knows nothing of the plan when she allies with them. She only knows they are there to mess with Doflamingo.
B) But so are the marines. At least before they learned the information of his resignation was misinformation.
C) Every time marines interact with Shichibukai it is with disdain and distrust. Why would anyone think that Admiral, presented with overwhelming evidence, would simply go on to ignore it? That's not even taking into account personal dislike Fujitora has for Shichibukais.

RamistaR

Just saying, the average pirate crew comes to Dressrosa either for tourism and/or to deal with Doffy. Odds of attacking Mingo for Viola = Ziiiro.
As for marines, if I remember well, Dressrosa is under Vergo's jurisdiction so…

Darth

@RamistaR:

Just saying, the average pirate crew comes to Dressrosa either for tourism and/or to deal with Doffy. Odds of attacking Mingo for Viola = Ziiiro.
As for marines, if I remember well, Dressrosa is under Vergo's jurisdiction so…

I did concede on the fact the she may not, in fact, had an opportunity to alarm the marines with Vergo around.

Fujitora though? I mean, come on.

Green Bull

@Darth:

I did concede on the fact the she may not, in fact, had an opportunity to alarm the marines with Vergo around.

Fujitora though? I mean, come on.

and tell him what exactly?

Darth

@Green:

and tell him what exactly?

Hmm… let's see, we are talking about a woman that can look in every place on the island, at any given time, remember that, and then show those memories to anyone she desires.

She is a living cam recorder who's been living and working with Doflamingo since he came to Dressrosa. Don't you dare tell me she couldn't gather enough eyewitness evidence against him with those powers of hers.

SunnyBlue

@Darth:

I have trouble grasping what your guys definition of "good" is. That she aligned with protagonist? That she fights with Doflamingo and therefore is good by being lesser evil?

Imagine the crazy world I live in, where person who does moraly evil things is not considered good or refered to as such. Insane, I know.

Helping luffy and co is one thing.
Not being shown to be a complete a-hole or done downright despicable stuff like killing a queen, slowly poisoning children or killing your subordinate. Having a positive character quality is also important. At the end of the day, it boils down to how Oda portray the character whether in a positive or negative light.

Darth, did you even read my post as to why Viola wouldn't help the marine?
Why the hell would she gives info Fujitora so he can arrest Law and Luffy?
Even before Doflamingo resignation was revealed, she can't tell them shit because she's a pirate.
Besides the marine already know what doflamingo did and have tons of evidence to arrest him. It just that Fujitora is not going after him for reason unknown.

RamistaR

@Darth:

I did concede on the fact the she may not, in fact, had an opportunity to alarm the marines with Vergo around.

Fujitora though? I mean, come on.

Fuji is still after Luffy's head when Bastille or Maynard were ready to go after Doffy.
Obviously, Viola's testimony wouldn't have been enough to change the Old Gambler's point of view.

Green Bull

@Darth:

Hmm… let's see, we are talking about a woman that can look in every place on the island, at any given time, remember that, and then show those memories to anyone she desires.

She is a living cam recorder who's been living and working with Doflamingo since he came to Dressrosa. Don't you dare tell me she couldn't gather enough eyewitness evidence against him with those powers of hers.

She may not have enough enidence.if doflamingos plan has anyhing to do with mansherry then it would make sense since she said it this chapter that she didnt know she was being held captive.

Vectorkov

@Darth:

I did concede on the fact the she may not, in fact, had an opportunity to alarm the marines with Vergo around.

Fujitora though? I mean, come on.

Why would she trust Fujitora?

Darth

@Vectorkov:

Why would she trust Fujitora?

Why would she trust Straw Hats? Because Sanji has quirky personality? So does Blackbeard.

The only info she has is that they are going to act against Doflamingo. Which doesn't really mean anything beyond that. Straw Hats may have somewhat favorable reputation, but Law? He is known for cruelty, and organising a bloody massacre of pirates to get Shichibukai spot.

How are they any more trustworthy then Fujitora, for someone who just met both parties, and has no idea about meta stuff, like Straw Hats being protagonists?

Tyrano

Wah wah?
Why Viola no trust marines like I do???
Issho clearly stronger than anything in Dressrosa!!!!! He can just solve EVERYTHING. WTF Viola.
Issho could have been the main character of one piece!?
What an idiotic girl. What a bad writing Oda. How morally ambiguous.

King Cannon

@Darth:

Why would she trust Straw Hats? Because Sanji has quirky personality? So does Blackbeard.

The only info she has is that they are going to act against Doflamingo. Which doesn't really mean anything beyond that. Straw Hats may have somewhat favorable reputation, but Law? He is known for cruelty, and organising a bloody massacre of pirates to get Shichibukai spot.

How are they any more trustworthy then Fujitora, for someone who just met both parties, and has no idea about meta stuff, like Straw Hats being protagonists?

The fact that she knew Luffy and Law were going to act against Doula Mongo should be enough.

Fujitora wouldn't do anything because she knew about the plan. And even if he did something, there's no guarantee that the WG would allow it.

Downloading

@Darth:

Why would she trust Straw Hats? Because Sanji has quirky personality? So does Blackbeard.

The only info she has is that they are going to act against Doflamingo. Which doesn't really mean anything beyond that. Straw Hats may have somewhat favorable reputation, but Law? He is known for cruelty, and organising a bloody massacre of pirates to get Shichibukai spot.

How are they any more trustworthy then Fujitora, for someone who just met both parties, and has no idea about meta stuff, like Straw Hats being protagonists?

Because she saw that Sanji actually cares for and honestly wants to help her? Maybe because she was following what the SHs were doing since yesterday (manga time)?

And oh, let's see why she doesn't trust Fujitora, the man who knows about Joker/Caesar and everything that happpened at PH and still hasn't done anything about it. Oh, and let's not forget that he as a (high ranking) Marine knows about how Doffy has overthrown the king of the country, the very same thing for which Crocodile got expelled from the Shichibukai, but that didn't happen to Doffy because he has WG/Marine protection. So you'll have to excuse her if she doesn't trust the Marines anymore…

Darth

@Downloading:

Because she saw that Sanji actually cares for and honestly wants to help her? Maybe because she was following what the SHs were doing since yesterday (manga time)?

Yes mind of pink and perveted thoughts clearly mean he cares for her. And for that matter, what of it that she was following them? Blackbeard, the current Yonkou, who murdered the man that threated him like soon, mudered his crewmate, and send someone he respected to Impel Down to further his own plans, is quite amicable while in the company of his crewmates, and even when fighting against his enemies. Watching them proves nothing.

@Downloading:

And oh, let's see why she doesn't trust Fujitora, the man who knows about Joker/Caesar and everything that happpened at PH and still hasn't done anything about it. Oh, and let's not forget that he as a (high ranking) Marine knows about how Doffy has overthrown the king of the country, the very same thing for which Crocodile got expelled from the Shichibukai, but that didn't happen to Doffy because he has WG/Marine protection. So you'll have to excuse her if she doesn't trust the Marines anymore…

A) He clearly wanted to, but, as he says, as a subordinate of Shichibukai, both of them get a pardon, something he is clearly not happy about.

B) Proof of him knowing about Doffy ovethrowing the king and being a man behind all of the stuff 10 years ago. Waiting for it. Especially since I know it doesn't exists.

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@King:

The fact that she knew Luffy and Law were going to act against Doula Mongo should be enough.

No it isn't.

@King:

Fujitora wouldn't do anything because she knew about the plan. And even if he did something, there's no guarantee that the WG would allow it.

That is silly. What Doflamingo has, permission to do absolutly anything?

And what does it matter if she does know about the plan? What both of those things have to do with each other?

RamistaR

@Darth:

B) Proof of him knowing about Doffy ovethrowing the king and being a man behind all of the stuff 10 years ago. Waiting for it. Especially since I know it doesn't exists.

So what should Viola tell to Fuji ? She doesn't have proof either. No better proof than Cesar calling directly Doffy by his nickname.

ARTEMlS

@Darth:

But in universe, this makes no sense.

One possible explanation could be that she read the newspaper like Bartolomeo over the last years. I think that she was looking all over the years for the right people. However, she knew that she high likely only had one single chance. Therefore, in order to reveal herself she better had to think twice before doing so. The meeting with Sanji actually might have been the drop in the bucket. That is, she planned some time ago to try it with the Strawhats and depending on her final impression she'd finally do it for real.

About the Marines, maybe it's because she has a better (or better said different) grasp of the OP world and therefore just doesn't trust that organisation enough. And Fuji, why should she trust him? He might as well just be another Vergo for Doula.

King Cannon

@Darth:

No it isn't.

Yes, it is. It's not like she has any better options.

Son of Revolutionary leader + Former subordinate now Warlord sounds like a decent bet, especially after doing something outrageous against Doula's business.

@Darth:

That is silly. What Doflamingo has, permission to do absolutly anything?

And what does it matter if she does know about the plan? What both of those things have to do with each other?

Pretty much, as seen by CP-0. Despite not being a Celestial Dragon anymore and even getting into piracy, he somehow still has access to the WG's strongest intelligence group.

The plan I'm talking about is Doula Mongo's plan, btw. Doula Mongo wasn't truly leaving the Warlords, so she couldn't really bet on the Marines.

And because she knew Doula Mongo had strong connections in the WG and even some of the Marines on his side, what makes you think that trusting the Marines would be a good idea?

Light Bro

@Bartholemew:

One possible explanation could be that she read the newspaper like Bartolomeo over the last years. I think that she was looking all over the years for the right people. However, she knew that she high likely only had one single chance. Therefore, in order to reveal herself she better had to think twice before doing so. The meeting with Sanji actually might have been the drop in the bucket. That is, she planned some time ago to try it with the Strawhats and depending on her final impression she'd finally do it for real.

About the Marines, maybe it's because she has a better grasp of the OP world and therefore just doesn't trust that organisation enough. And Fuji, why should she trust him? He might as well just be another Vergo for Doula.

Sorry but this is pretty silly. Even is she didn't trust the Government what would make pirates any better choice, especially based on what propaganda filled newspapers would say about them? Besides if she had wanted to ask help from Sanji why beat him up first? Not the greatest first impression you know.

Tyrano

The lack of humor and understanding of the very nature of this manga and using that lacking to falsely judge a character's otherwise obvious morality in this thread is just astonishing.
And I thought I got used to this shit.

Jabra

Can't we just agree that Viola is a pretty terrible character, all things considered?

She is the convenient plotbitch of Dressrosa, and even Oda is making fun of that.

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Personally I don't question anything she does or says at this point.

King Cannon

@Light:

Sorry but this is pretty silly. Even is she didn't trust the Government what would make pirates any better choice, especially based on what propaganda filled newspapers would say about them? Besides if she had wanted to ask help from Sanji why beat him up first? Not the greatest first impression you know.

For starters, those pirates were defying Doula Mongo by destroying his S.A.D and kidnapping one of his most important assets.

Downloading

@Darth:

Yes mind of pink and perveted thoughts clearly mean he cares for her. And for that matter, what of it that she was following them? Blackbeard, the current Yonkou, who murdered the man that threated him like soon, mudered his crewmate, and send someone he respected to Impel Down to further his own plans, is quite amicable while in the company of his crewmates, and even when fighting against his enemies. Watching them proves nothing.

A) He clearly wanted to, but, as he says, as a subordinate of Shichibukai, both of them get a pardon, something he is clearly not happy about.

B) Proof of him knowing about Doffy ovethrowing the king and being a man behind all of the stuff 10 years ago. Waiting for it. Especially since I know it doesn't exists.

Mind of pink lol. Just go and reread that chapter again… She was following them from before, which means it wasn't just some sudden/stupid/out of nowhere decision because she saw Sanji's perverted thoughts as you make it to be lol.

Fujitora is not a stupid man and he is a fricking Marine Admiral, of course he knows a bunch of secrets like that. But I'm not gonna argue that he actually knows about it because, like you said, there isn't proof in the manga for it and it is not even important for the discussion that we have here. The WG/the Marines know about it and yet they didn't react at all in the past 10 years and Fujitora is also a Marine so why should Viola think that he is going to do something about it all of the sudden after 10 years?

ARTEMlS

@Light:

Sorry but this is pretty silly. Even is she didn't trust the Government what would make pirates any better choice, especially based on what propaganda filled newspapers would say about them? Besides if she had wanted to ask help from Sanji why beat him up first? Not the greatest first impression you know.

Well, she had years to gather information as well as to learn what high likely might be propaganda. About the first impression, as I said I could imagine that it's a tough decision and therefore she was especially torn between in that situation - with Sanji finally turning the table to actually reveal herself finally.