@Shift:
She was at one point, but really think about what has happened since then. We had another antagonist-turned-ally who eventually joined. We had the guy Luffy asked right at the start of the arc take his time before joining. And we now have a guy who was introduced over 8 years ago, turned down the first offer to join, and despite seeming locked in by this point, he has STILL not gotten his “The Ninth” title. Objectively speaking, Robin was only when it started getting weird, so I feel perfectly validated when bringing her up when discussing precedent.
Yeah, but the difference in her joining is we had no arc dedicated to her, no flashback, and no real reason to believe that she would join. We knew she wanted to study history, but there was no indication she needed to travel with Luffy to achieve that dream until later. That is where the idea of a "true exception" comes in, because it's completely different from every other joining scenario.
On the flipside, Franky became obvious as soon as his multi-chapter flashback showed up, and when he began to show chemistry with the crew and get a dedicated fight with a member of CP9. Also, this color spread. Even before he got his flashback, he "oompfed" with character the moment he was unmasked.
The same goes for Brook, too, who got the same stand-out depiction in his debut chapter, and the chapters following. The motivation to even help out at Thriller Bark came from Luffy's desire to help him get his shadow back. He was the driving force there.
Jinbe had years of foreshadowing as this major Fishman Pirate who worked with Arlong at one point. And then when he finally showed up 400 chapters later, he was depicted as a major friend of Ace's. Then, when the escape began, he had immediate chemistry with Luffy, all the way until the big moment where he was the one who snapped Luffy out of his depression regarding Ace.
It has been nearly 100 chapters since Carrot debuted, and we still have yet to see anything close to the level of development Jinbe and Franky got in their introduction arcs and the arcs following up to their joining. She wants to explore the world, and likes Carrots, and can draw, but where are the major "oompf" moments that should've been present in her debut arc, and the arc following? This isn't just ship position stuff, either, because the other example Straw Hats had other things going for them that didn't just come down to "they are doing this role." It's easy to argue that it took Oda 20 chapters to begin to develop Franky as a main cast member, but we're nearing 100 here, and most arguments I've seen here from others tend to lean towards "she'll get more development in Wano", but at that point, we're talking 3+ years after her initial debut where she really begins to get true development.
For all we knew back then, that could have been a gag and he might have actually been a terrible musician.
Why would we have had a reason to believe that, though? He had no reason to lie about being skilled with the instrument, nor his former position on a crew. He was the role that Luffy had always wanted, so that kind of revelation would've been quite the fake-out. There was no real depiction at the time that he was going to be a horrible musician.
No one was praising is true skills in music before the chapters he join, like you said was a requirement before joining. Meanwhile, Carrot is actually demonstrating her skills at leaping around and putting up a fight, and has been shown to be adored by her coworkers.
The arc’s not over yet, they’re not out of BM’s territory. And even if it’s never spoken aloud, I personally don’t think it needs to be for her to still join. I believe she will join at the same time as Jinbe, before Wano, so that’s my cutting off point.
We knew he was a musician, and that it was a role that Luffy had wanted since the beginning of the series. He had this unique role that nobody on the crew was capable of.
Again, there's the helmsman thing where Oda didn't show a true moment until the Green Room, but he actually bothered to create that situation to tell us "he is the best helmsman". If he's really planning on bringing Carrot on at the same time as Jinbe, I really think he would've created the same type of situation if he wants them to both have equal billing and the same importance to their joining.
The depictions so far are "Jinbe is the only one who can steer the ship in this" versus "She, along with others on the ship, are doing a role that commonly is done on a rotating schedule."
And even ignoring ship positions, the depiction that the Straw Hat examples had in their personalities, dreams, and motivations throughout their respective intro arc(s) is a night and day difference.
Again, you’re the one talking about the need for praise as a requirement for joining, and I was pointing out that Jinbe only very recently got praise for his helmsmanship and that Robin and Brook never actually got praise for their job skills. But they did all get praise in general from the crew, which is what Carrot has likewise received.
Yes, Jinbe didn't get his praise as a helmsman until recently, but he at least got it before he joined, not after. Similarly with Brook, Oda made it a major point in those Thriller Bark epilogue chapters that he was an amazing musician, with his ability to play every musical instrument being told before he officially joined. And again, veering off the position again, his depiction throughout the arc, and his connection to Laboon added to his overall Straw Hat candidacy.
Robin is again, the one exception, with her joining being such an anomaly, and her role not really being vital to a traditional Pirate Ship. Even with her exception, she proved herself immediately useful in her role before the salvaging expedition, and when she discerned the existence of a Sky Island.
Jinbe and Brook's depictions go to show how Oda works. He absolutely makes it a point that they are amazing at their job, before they join, even if it happens right before they end up joining the crew. Carrot is extremely missing that depiction if she's to join before Wano.
The second the cannons started firing, she was back up on the mast and relaying info. She was the first to spot and announce those ships coming in fast. That’s what a lookout is supposed to do.
I know the argument has been brought up that they were all celebrating Luffy at this point, but it would've been a perfect depiction of her apparent lookout skills if she had stayed up there, and called out the first warning shot. That could've been the situation Oda created to show that she was extremely focused on completing the mission, instead of having her distracted.
And Carrot being on the lookout every time they need at least one doesn’t hurt the idea that it could be her.
Other Straw Hats have been looking out as well. Chopper was even with her in the crow's nest at one point. It really just continues to lend itself to being the rotating role it's always been.
What was it about Sanji’s food that led to his big moment? It wasn’t about the quality of his food or his cooking skills. It was his philosophy that no one deserves to go hungry that made him stand out from the other chefs on the ship. He and Zeff knew what it was like to be hungry, and that conviction to feed even a pirate that could come back and attack is what attracted Luffy to Sanji, not that his food was the best. It’s not even Sanji’s dream to be the best at cooking. “Find the All Blue,” find the one thing that no chef believes in. Cooking is Sanji’s job and he’s great at it, but they are a means to an end. It’s his ideals that stand out, not just his cooking skills.
Those are all major aspects of him being the best cook, though. Luffy didn't just want any cook; he wanted one like Sanji, which is why he focused on him so heavily after seeing his philosophy. Oda brought out the more important factor when it comes to "cooking" there, the philosophy, even if he did also put emphasis that Sanji was an amazing cook in the more traditional ways.
Where is any of this for Carrot regarding her role?
That’s what I expect to see from Carrot by the time she joins: what she stands for, what she believes in thanks to Pedro and her life on Zou, and what she wants to do for the crew, not that her lookout skills make her the best.
But Oda will ultimately weave in the lookout position if that is what he plans on doing. He's done it with every other crew member, even if their main reason for joining wasn't just their crew position.
We’ll just have to see what comes up before they depart, then.
Yes, and I will concede my absolute position on the Carrot matter if Oda depicts something amazing about her in the crow's nest in the coming chapters.
He doesn’t need to show each and every repair to the ship Franky has to make like he had to do with Usopp, does he?
But do you think he brought Franky on exclusively to save panel time? Because that isn't really the case at all.
Franky will absolutely need to repair the Sunny after this adventure into Totto Land, by the way. The ship has taken some major damage.
She’s the only one who got up there in time to catch the front, and there were enemies coming from the back. If you want someone with a third eye on the back of their head, that might be something.
She doesn't need three eyes, but she's a rabbit! Her hearing is supposed to be enhanced, and Oda hasn't made a point to show that in relation to her looking out.
The perfect situation could've been created by her being up there, wherein she deflects the cannonball out of the way somehow due to hearing it or seeing it early. And then she could've been depicted as ahead of the curve when Daifuku's genie showed up, instead of relying on Sanji to deflect an ability.
Does it not help the Carrot cause more for amazing moments like those hypotheticals to exist?
[/HIDE]
