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Next Strawhat Crewmate (Vol. 6)
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@.access:
The fact Oda said the created the supernova just before he presented them in the story shouldn't be enough to disqualify Bonney? It means she didn't even exist as a concept in his mind before Sabaody.
@Count:
The Supernovas didn't even exist in concept. Oda made them all up from scratch when he got to Sabaody Archipelago.
I just said this in another thread but I really don't think that's actually the case.
The story goes that his editor told Oda "this arc is a little dull, can you mix it up some? And then Oda sat down and created the Supernova intro chapter in like half an hour.
And I'm sure that's true. Absolutely no reason to doubt it.
But even for Oda, that set of characters was too distinct, too well designed, too varied, with too interesting a set of powers, to have been something he made up whole cloth then and there. I think he had at least some of them in mind prior to that moment and just intended to introduce them in the new world as rivals to show Luffy wasn't the only one.
The "spontaneous" part was introducing them a couple years earlier than he planned, not their creation. He even had something as distinct as Bepo for a side character in that set. sure, maybe Hawkins wasn't quite so well designed, and Capone was kind of generic gangster, but everyone else? Law with his tatoos and hat? XDrake's name, scar and hat ad being the first dinosaur in the series? Bonney not being a typical One Piece female at all? Apoo is still a design unlike any character he's shown before or since. Even Urogue, who is kind of plain, has a really distinctive face and a Skypeian connection that we still want to know about. And even for Capone being a generic gangster his facial hair and body type is unique to him and his castle power is really crazy (though oda had a few weeks to get to that.)
If any one of those supernovas had been introduced individually, they would have been prime "Next Nakama" candidates for months. Oda put a lot of thought and work into them.
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Heck the fact that Law literally had a similar Jolly Roger to DD was apparent as well and featured in the same arc.
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Heck the fact that Law literally had a similar Jolly Roger to DD was apparent as well and featured in the same arc.
Oda said in an SBS that that style of jolly roger was just the style in the north blue. But Doflamingo isn't from there, so… I'm not sure what to make of that.
Purely coincidence
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He wasn't from there, but he did rise to prominence there.
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Oda said in an SBS that that style of jolly roger was just the style in the north blue. But Doflamingo isn't from there, so… I'm not sure what to make of that.
Which SBS was that?
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It was Oda's choice to have Carrot in color alongside the SHs, while other important characters like Pudding were rendered in yellow when he could have gone whole hog on them too. He chose to make Carrot stand out among the crew on top of featuring her Sulong form, where that alone would have sufficed. It's not crazy to point out that he's choosing to highlight her as equally important as the other SHs on this cover when he has no obligation to.
Is it proof positive she will join? Of course not. But it’s not wise to dismiss the implications, like saying he would have done so for Pedro when we have no way of knowing. And on a personal note, it's giving me the same feeling that Vol. 64 gave me for Jinbe, as in, “This character looks quite good side by side with everyone else.”
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Shift watching you counter all these arguments is the personification of the luffy vs katakuri fight to me. Everytime I think you're done fighting you stand right back up
Chapter 437 Discussion after franky decides to join the Strawhats:
So who think Usopp is inside that duffelbag?
H x H Chimera Ant Arc / OP Manga Spoiler
Spoiler:
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And it was also Oda's choice to have Law on 7 out of 10 covers in a row prominently with Luffy and other Strawhats in equal billing. Doesn't mean he's joining the crew.
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Pedro and Pekoms looked nice with the Straw Hats on the Volume 82 cover as well.
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@Long:
Shift watching you counter all these arguments is the personification of the luffy vs katakuri fight to me. Everytime I think you're done fighting you stand right back up
When anything new comes up, I'm happy to chime in. Thanks for the kind words!
And it was also Oda's choice to have Law on 7 out of 10 covers in a row prominently with Luffy and other Strawhats in equal billing. Doesn't mean he's joining the crew.
@Count:
Pedro and Pekoms looked nice with the Straw Hats on the Volume 82 cover as well.
Most of the time Law was in a group with other key characters on the same plane like 73 and 75. The main exception is when he was set apart with just Luffy in 76, everyone else in rainbow colors. 78 looks like just him and the SHs, but they're actually sharing the same plane as the Tontattas, you can just see their legs behind them. Carrot was in the same boat as Law, shots with other non-SH players, until just now.
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And it was also Oda's choice to have Law on 7 out of 10 covers in a row prominently with Luffy and other Strawhats in equal billing. Doesn't mean he's joining the crew.
Law did join the crew in a sense. He's in an official pirate alliance with Luffy. He's not just an underling, he's not just a buddy that the strawhats are helping out, he's an equal part partner that the story is treating as being Luffy's equal (it also helps that he's the #2 most popular character and I'm sure Oda's editor tells him to cram him everywhere).
@Count:
Pedro and Pekoms looked nice with the Straw Hats on the Volume 82 cover as well.
Pekoms is clearly there as a gag and he doesn't look like he's enjoying being in the strawhats' company at all. But I would say that Pedro has reached the same "honorary strawhat" status that Vivi has. Especially if his sacrifice holds (don't fuck me on this, Oda) but I think Oda's a little more likely to let deaths happen since the timeskip.
When anything new comes up, I'm happy to chime in. Thanks for the kind words!
You do good work to hold back the anti-Carrot hordes. Although I think you messed up by betting on her joining at the end WCI. She won't join before having actually interacted on-panel with the other half of the crew.
Purely coincidence
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But I would say that Pedro has reached the same "honorary strawhat" status that Vivi has. Especially if his sacrifice holds (don't fuck me on this, Oda) but I think Oda's a little more likely to let deaths happen since the timeskip.
I'm not sure this is the case. No one died in Fishman Island, no one died in Punk Hazard (OH NO THE POISONOUS GAS GOT THEM THEY'RE…just frozen in place), no one died in Dressrosa even with a giant unbreakable (and apparently autonomous) deathtrap closing in, no one died in Zou, so I'd be willing to bet we'll see Pedro and Pound alive and well again, even if they're not shown until the eventual WCI cover story.
Come to think of it, have ANY named characters actually died in the present story besides Ace and Whitebeard? The only ones I can think of are Mr. 11 and Jirga, the organ dealer Katakuri shot.
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@No:
I'm not sure this is the case. No one died in Fishman Island,
True, but that's technically not in the New World, so I guess the stakes hadn't been raised yet.
@No:
no one died in Punk Hazard (OH NO THE POISONOUS GAS GOT THEM THEY'RE…just frozen in place)
Vergo and Monet are still presumed dead at this point. I'm not sure how the story could conceivably explain away Monet's heart getting stabbed on-panel.
@No:
no one died in Dressrosa even with a giant unbreakable (and apparently autonomous) deathtrap closing in,
While I know the rules are different for flashbacks, we saw a LOT of dead children in the Dressrosa flashbacks. A class full of children in Law's and a baby in Señor Pink's. That's still a step up in terms of how much Oda's willing to kill.
@No:
no one died in Zou,
I really don't see how anyone other than Jack and maybe few stragglers managed to survive Zunisha's attack.
Purely coincidence
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I need to light up the Robby signal to explain why Monet can still be alive.
And it was also Oda's choice to have Law on 7 out of 10 covers in a row prominently with Luffy and other Strawhats in equal billing. Doesn't mean he's joining the crew.
Spoiler:
"Life's not about finding out which card is yours, but finding out which cards you're not."
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@Count:
I need to light up the Robby signal to explain why Monet can still be alive.
What's the excuse? The panel with the stake sticking out on the ground next to the heart? That would only make it worse. When getting stabbed, removing the intruding object only makes you bleed out.
Purely coincidence
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What's the excuse? The panel with the stake sticking out on the ground next to the heart? That would only make it worse. When getting stabbed, removing the intruding object only makes you bleed out.
Except that the panel framing and angles makes it look like Caesar hit her heart when he could have missed, hence the stake being next to the heart. In which Monet would have coughed up blood from the injuries she already sustained from Tashigi by coincidence.
I know how much of a stretch that sounds, but Oda's done way worse in reviving characters.
Spoiler:
"Life's not about finding out which card is yours, but finding out which cards you're not."
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Monet will survive because of her dream to chart the stars, you guys~
Set Art by Daily Rowlet -
You do good work to hold back the anti-Carrot hordes. Although I think you messed up by betting on her joining at the end WCI. She won't join before having actually interacted on-panel with the other half of the crew.
We'll have to see, but I feel it's quite possible we could be in for another triad like in W7 where Franky joined and Robin and Usopp rejoined in quick succession. They'll definitely have a toast for Jinbe at the end of this, the matter with Sanji and the ultimate fate of Pedro will be settled, and all of that combined could provide the momentum for Carrot or Luffy to pop the question.
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@Count:
Except that the panel framing and angles makes it look like Caesar hit her heart when he could have missed, hence the stake being next to the heart. In which Monet would have coughed up blood from the injuries she already sustained from Tashigi by coincidence.
I know how much of a stretch that sounds, but Oda's done way worse in reviving characters.
Pell got blown up with a bomb with no explanation and a random guy bit his tongue but didn't die. I'm not sure why we are searching for some convoluted explanation that Oda supposedely left for us when he doesn't do it usually. It just happen. You can say Ceasar missed but putting it at some kind of clever details Oda hid for the well-informed seems kind of silly.
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Lacuba was the guy who bit his tongue in SA and lived.
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@Count:
Except that the panel framing and angles makes it look like Caesar hit her heart when he could have missed, hence the stake being next to the heart. In which Monet would have coughed up blood from the injuries she already sustained from Tashigi by coincidence.
I know how much of a stretch that sounds, but Oda's done way worse in reviving characters.
That makes no sense. What's with the blood-spurt when Caesar stabs the heart then?
This argument is based on a monumental coincidence and on ignoring your own eyes. All the other fake-out deaths at least has the decency to happen off-panel so we could assume that some stuff happened when we weren't looking. -
[qimg]http://i7.mangapanda.com/one-piece/695/one-piece-3844523.jpg[/qimg]
Bottom right panel. Ceaser missed, plain as day.
Regardless of how dramatically Oda presented the prior scene to create an illusion, the aftermath shows the spike nowhere near the heart, but planted firmly into the ground. (And she WAS already coughing blood from Tashigi's hit earlier.)
That is what ODA put on the page. From there you can look at the previous scene and note it is the ONE camera angle where hitting the back of the cube would create the illusion of a full hit. If the camera had been at all above or to the side, it would have been an incredibly clear hit. (And in fact, the anime extrapolated and did just such a shot… but the anime doesn't count for anything, they get things wrong all the time)
It's beside the point anyway. The explanation for WHY she survived doesn't matter at all. Oda's never going to dwell on that explanation outside of an SBS question, that's just the subtle out he gave himself and the story, rather than a plotpoint. Even if he didn't and Ceaser did hit her heart dead on, it still wouldn't matter because Oda doesn't kill when fainting will suffice, and she didn't pass on any dream or die smiling.
This is about ODA'S STORYTELLING, not about the damn harpy.
@Count Mario
Well, I guess it's about time this thread goes back to discussing about Monet…
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@Count Mario
Well, I guess it's about time this thread goes back to discussing about Monet…
None of that explains the blood spurt.
Purely coincidence
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Oda tends to telegraph the big differences between those that are mostly dead and all dead. Characters like Monet, Vergo, Pell, Bellamy, they get their succinct demises and no one speaks of them again. They are, in essence, dead to the readers until such time as they are needed again. Even Bon Clay had a single chapter of mourning before he was forgotten because his survival was not relevant to the story: it only became so when Oda deigned to show us how he and 5.5's folks, like the rest of the world, were getting on. Basically, Oda forced us to put them out of our minds.
In Pedro's case, it's the opposite: Oda keeps bringing him up so that we keep his ultimate outcome in mind to the end of the arc. It won't be left open-ended here, there will be deliberate closure one way or the other.
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None of that explains the blood spurt.
He hit the edge of liquidy cube. It splurted, slid, and then he ended up stabbing the ground instead. It's the only thing that makes sense given the shot in the next chapter, because there'd be zero reason for him to remove the spike and then stab it into the ground hard enough that it keeps pointing straight up. If it was just dropped on the ground, or still embedded in the cube, that'd be one thing. But Oda deliberately drew it in a very unusual way, to indicate "this isn't quite what it seemed."
So, we have to note that she was already coughing blood from Tashigi's hit earlier, and that even having the heart jostled took out Law and Smoker, so the same applies here. Her earlier injuries plus the jostling took her out, not the apparent stabbing.
And that's the out that Oda provided himself. This will never be explained on camera or in-story, but its the out he provided.
And even without that?
Even if she WAS directly stabbed in the heart? She'd still be okay, this is One Piece. On of the horses on enies Lobby was shot in the heart and was fine afterward. And a random civilian once had an explosive on his neck go off, then get shot and peed on, and he's still apparently going to be okay. People take horrific wounds and live.And even without that?
Monet is a snow logia. In an area full of snow. Unless Ceaser was filling that spike with Haki, (And it wasn't black) even if it was a direct hit it shouldn't matter. (And it wouldn't have long term hurt Smoker either for that matter.) Weve seen Enel's heart stop and Crocodile be beheaded, it doesn't matter. It was Tashigi's haki hit from earlier that made her start coughing blood.Oda set up the scene to present the scenario as a "for real serious death this time" and picked his camera angles just the right way to pull it off. Because… it's Oda and he wanted you to believe. It's what he does. But there's at least three layers of "she survived because..." and the most important one is "It's Oda and her dying then doesn't actually serve the story any more than her fainting does."
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Law did join the crew in a sense. He's in an official pirate alliance with Luffy. He's not just an underling, he's not just a buddy that the strawhats are helping out, he's an equal part partner that the story is treating as being Luffy's equal (it also helps that he's the #2 most popular character and I'm sure Oda's editor tells him to cram him everywhere).
Wat?
[hide]
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Wat?
[hide]
https://i2.wp.com/jaiminisbox.com/reader/content/comics/one-piece-2_58650da78040f/874-0-king-baum_59841fb4993ca/04-05.png?quality=100&strip=all[/hide]That's the 6th poll which was taken during WCI. He was #2 during Dressrosa.
He hit the edge of liquidy cube. It splurted, slid, and then he ended up stabbing the ground instead. It's the only thing that makes sense given the shot in the next chapter
That's a fantastic theory, except that there's absolutely no indication of any damage on the edge of the cube.
There's nothing on the sides of the cube to indicate a splurt of blood large enough to spill over on the other side of the cube.
Oda deliberately drew it in a very unusual way, to indicate "this isn't quite what it seemed."
Did he? Because Oda says he draws "everything that moves", but a stick in the ground doesn't fall under that purview. There's no guarantee that this wasn't just a fuckup on an assistant's part. I'll believe that over an elaborate ruse to keep a character alive who he hasn't made relevant in ~200 chapters. Pell, Pagaya, and the G5 marines lived because Oda didn't want the arc to have a downer ending so he revived them before the end of the arc. Most people are still under the impression that Monet died, so that reasoning doesn't work. And this isn't Bon-chan, nobody's going to be excited if its ever revealed that she survived somehow 300 chapters down the line.
Also, there was nothing "very unusual" about the way Oda framed that sequence. That was the perfect way to frame that action while having us look straight at Caesar's face and his expression.
Her earlier injuries plus the jostling took her out, not the apparent stabbing.
Even your own theory two quotes ago includes her getting stabbed in the heart. The side of the heart, not the center, but I wouldn't want any kind of damage to my heart that would produce that kind of blood spurt.
And even without that?
Even if she WAS directly stabbed in the heart? She'd still be okay, this is One Piece. On of the horses on enies Lobby was shot in the heart and was fine afterward.Is that the correct translation? Because I just checked my VIZ copy and it says "chest" not "heart". But anyways, the horse got treatment from a world-class doctor soon after. Monet was buried under a mountain and her entire support network collapsed the very next day.
And even without that?
Monet is a snow logia. In an area full of snow. Unless Ceaser was filling that spike with Haki, (And it wasn't black) even if it was a direct hit it shouldn't matter. (And it wouldn't have long term hurt Smoker either for that matter.) Weve seen Enel's heart stop and Crocodile be beheaded, it doesn't matter. It was Tashigi's haki hit from earlier that made her start coughing blood.If she had logia immunity to that attack there would have been no blood at all, and she wouldn't have been fazed. Enel was perfectly fine with a spear through his brain. Ceasar's attack hit.
Purely coincidence
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Oda gave himself an artistic out, a "he missed" visual. It was not a "mistake", it's very clearly drawn in a "It's impacted in the ground seperate from the cube" unique thing. It's unusual, it draws your eye. It's intended to be noticed by anyone paying attention. It's not a scribble in the distance, it's a closeup, right next to dramatic lettering. ANd if it was a mistake, it could have been fixed for the trade, where they have fixed much more minor things.
So, when she is eventually revealed to be alive whenever Oda gets around to the Punk Hazard/Dresserossa villain cover story, the explanation is there for anyone that wants it. "He actually missed." "She's a logia." "Character X arrived two minutes later and saved her." The excuse does not matter, but it is in place ready to go all the same, whether or not the story actually adresses it or not, and its more likely to come up in the SBS than anything on camera. (And that it HASN'T come up in SBS yet is pretty telling too, it's obviously a questions that's been asked.)
But even without it, it doesn't matter. It's One Piece. Oda just doesn't kill named characters unless the story absolutely demands it, and her sacrifice didn't add anything but temporary drama for that one chapter. Her sister Sugar never even comments on it in any way afterward! No revenge, no sadness, nothing, and that's absolutely something Oda would have milked. So eventually, even if she was directly stabbed, she'd still be fine. Because Oda. And that's the most important strongest point of all.
It's an author thing.
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That's the 6th poll which was taken during WCI. He was #2 during Dressrosa.
Then you can't say he is the second most popular character now then.
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There is a lack of blood in the panel with the stake on the ground.
The thing is, Oda never explained if an organ inside Law's cube can be damaged. It hurts when squeezed, but you might actually never be able to damage it more than giving the person a tight sensation in their chest. So the liquid coming out when it is stabbed, could easily be fluid from the cube itself.
That also goes along with Law's powers and how he cuts parts from your body while he operates. If these cubes preserve and make the organs invulnerable it makes it easier for him to operate.
But most importantly it doesn't explain why the stake is stabbed on the ground. If it had stabbed through, then why was there a need to remove it and stick it to the ground? My excuse back then was, well Caesar is a nutjob, so he stabbed multiple times. But it is much easier to say, he stabbed and the stake slipped on the surface of the cube and got stuck on the ground.
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Crap, I can't believe I forgot about Monet. Sorry for bringing up that can of worms again.
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Occam's razor says she's alive. As Robby said that is how exactly One Piece worked the last 70 or so volumes.
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Then you can't say he is the second most popular character now then.
He was the second most popular character back when he was featuring on almost every cover, that's what the conversation was about. Don't twist my words.
So, when she is eventually revealed to be alive whenever Oda gets around to the Punk Hazard/Dresserossa villain cover story, the explanation is there for anyone that wants it.
We've already got a cover story for Dressrosa characters. Do you think he'll go backwards and give a cover story for Punk Hazard Characters? Has that ever happened before? Cover stories being given out of order of the events of the story? I don't think we're getting a Punk Hazard cover story.
Purely coincidence
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When you stab someone to kill them you should take the thing you stabbed them with out of their wound so they bleed out faster. It's been 200 chapters since Monet's been gone. When Pell turned out to be alive we saw that he's fine in that arc. Oda didn't wait to show that Pell survived the bomb ten years later when Vivi went to the reverie.
She dead IMO -
We've already got a cover story for Dressrosa characters. Do you think he'll go backwards and give a cover story for Punk Hazard Characters? Has that ever happened before? Cover stories being given out of order of the events of the story? I don't think we're getting a Punk Hazard cover story.
He is talking about villain cover stories. The cover stories we saw from Dressrosa were all from allied perspective.
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When you stab someone to kill them you should take the thing you stabbed them with out of their wound so they bleed out faster. It's been 200 chapters since Monet's been gone. When Pell turned out to be alive we saw that he's fine in that arc. Oda didn't wait to show that Pell survived the bomb ten years later when Vivi went to the reverie.
She dead IMOTrue, but then why did Caesar stab the ground after and didn't just drop the stake after pulling it out. If he had enough energy to stab again the ground, why not just stab the heart again.
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@K.:
He is talking about villain cover stories. The cover stories we saw from Dressrosa were all from allied perspective.
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True, but then why did Caesar stab the ground after and didn't just drop the stake after pulling it out. If he had enough energy to stab again the ground, why not just stab the heart again.
One stab is enough. The other was done in the moment of triumph.
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Sounds complicated. If two stabs were made, and taking Caesar's personality into question, it makes little sense he wouldn't stab the hurt multiple times instead of once and then sticking to the ground. He is the type of character that would have kept the heart stabbed with the stake as a trophy.
And given how technical we are getting. The panel with the stake on the floor shows the cube as clean as ever. No blood whatsoever, which is weird, even the stake is clean not covered in blood.
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Try out my first game! All feedback is welcome, enjoy and thanks. Heroine: Kiku
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@K.:
And given how technical we are getting. The panel with the stake on the floor shows the cube as clean as ever. No blood whatsoever, which is weird, even the stake is clean not covered in blood.
Oda is not perfect
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But he does correct mistakes in volume releases. If I'm not mistaken, the stake looks the same.
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How can he even make such mistakes ? It's almost like he was drawing on a tablet or something, which isn't unlikely. I guess
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When you're overworked and with tight schedule you can easily miss some details. Or notice them when it's too late. Doesn't matter there are more than one pair of eyes involved.
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Even if there's a not corrected mistake in that stake scene, it really does not matter. Again, the main reason for Monet being alive aren't some logical considerations or technicalities. It's how Oda handled character deaths all the time since Alabasta.
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Oda is not perfect
Not sure what am I supposed to be looking at here.
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Mmm I wonder why the stake is covered by the hand, maybe to keep the illusion that she is dead.
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@K.:
Not sure what am I supposed to be looking at here.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Mmm I wonder why the stake is covered by the hand, maybe to keep the illusion that she is dead.
I thought it was Ussop's face on Sanji's body lol
Oda made similar mistakes, by giving Luffy's scar to Zoro for instance.
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@K.:
Not sure what am I supposed to be looking at here.
No frame on the bike. Dumb joke, moving on.
Monet being dead or alive doesn't matter in the end. She'll get a cute cover story where she is writing children's books and never be seen again.
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Ah, thanks for pointing it out.
The problem with somehow Oda changing his pattern after all these years is that if the deaths are meant to stay, he has done a poor job at making the most out of them to have emotional impact. From Sugar being unaffected by her sister's death, to Pedro's sacrifice being at the start of the climax instead during its peak. The reasons he can get away with these things is because from my perspective, he has challenged himself on making a character matter regardless of how far into the story he goes. That's why we got Alvida, Buggy always comes back, Croco, Mango is being sent to prison and Bon Chan being alive just confirms another Impel Down breakout. All of the cover stories that help progress the story of other characters besides the Straw Hats. Rob Lucci being part of CP0.
To sum it up, Gaimon is going to show up for the final war, and so is Monet. Because Oda has left in place enough evidence that he can choose whichever path he so likes.
