I once thought Fishman Karate was tied to the aquatic races but ever since we found out Koala is a Fishman Karate practitioner I figure there is no reason why Chopper couldn't learn electro.
Next Strawhat Crewmate (Vol. 6)
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Woah I didn't know that! Though I would like to see Chopper with the Cherry Blossom colored electric attacks…it would be quite vibrant when Colored.
Oooh, I like the sound of that! I always like it when authors put creative spins on fictionally popular powers by switching up colors or means of activation.
Spoiler:
"Life's not about finding out which card is yours, but finding out which cards you're not."
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You're putting way too much weight on that phrase. It's Luffy's inarticulate way of saying an island full of talking animals. It was a throwaway line that had no long-term relevance on the story.
It's important not because Luffy said it, but because Oda put it in his mouth at all.
As the very first thing. As the very first impression.
Meaning to Luffy, and thus the audience, Oda wanted the impression to be "here's is an island of characters similar to one we already have! Neat, right?"
That same idea could have been expressed at any point in the arc, or even ust a few pages later, in much more casual conversation.
"Man, Chopper looks like he's getting along great here doesn't he?"
"Yeah, it's like he found a bunch of people like him!"Same intent, more subtle, and not the first impression. Points out the elephant in the room without yelling it from the treetops. Luffy didn't even get starry eyed or anything.
Oh, and we were also introduced to Wanda at first dressed as Nami which was also supposed to bring up questions and comparisons, so that's a thing too. THat first week cliffhanger people were even speculating Nami had been transformed.
Oda went to huge length to show "this island is full of friends like the crew. They look like the crew and even dress like the crew." You can't scream secondary more than that.
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@Count:
Oooh, I like the sound of that! I always like it when authors put creative spins on fictionally popular powers by switching up colors or means of activation.
Right? And at least it would fit the creativeness of the SH's themselves when they put their own spin on already existing techniques.
Also just throwing it out there…..Hope Nami gets Zeus..
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@Count:
Retort…
We're just not going to agree. So far, only minks have been shown to use electro (which is different from just random electrical-based attacks from other characters) and there has been nothing shown to suggest that someone else can just learn it because they have fur. We'll see how things go over the next few chapters, but for now, I'm sticking to what's cannon on the electro ability.
Law, a human, is somehow able to generate electric attacks despite having no fur nor an appropriate devil fruit. Electric attacks are thus not tied purely to genetics. I'm sure Chopper can learn electric moves too if he wants. Electro in particular if its static electricity and tied to fur. If electro specifically IS a mink genetic thing and out of his reach, Law shows he can learn electric moves all the same. The difference in either case is negligible because it would still be a clearly inspired-by thing.
Also he is voiced by Pikachu, so that's a thing.
Nami with her staff can generate electric attacks but she has a prop for that.
Similarly, Luffy, Zoro, Sanji, Kinemon, Usopp. and Franky can all make fire attacks, even though the last two are the only ones using actual fire creating materials. Luffy and Sanji both have CP9 moves even though they were never trained in the forms.
People can learn moves and techniques from others. Look at how much Usopp upgraded after Skypeia, or again after being on plant island.
Law's power is most likely based off of his devil fruit. In fact, there are only two non-minks that I can recall that have used electrical attacks that weren't based on weapons. That's Law and Enel, and they're devil fruit users. You do realize the huge leap you're making by adding DF users to this conversation, right?
@RomanceDawn:I once thought Fishman Karate was tied to the aquatic races but ever since we found out Koala is a Fishman Karate practitioner I figure there is no reason why Chopper couldn't learn electro.
It was never stated that non-fishmen couldn't learn fishman karate. What we've seen so far is that only minks can use electro and we have no evidence that anyone else can at this point.
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Law's power is most likely based off of his devil fruit. In fact, there are only two non-minks that I can recall that have used electrical attacks that weren't based on weapons. That's Law and Enel, and they're devil fruit users.
Hey, so is Chopper!
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We're just not going to agree. So far, only minks have been shown to use electro (which is different from just random electrical-based attacks from other characters) and there has been nothing shown to suggest that someone else can just learn it because they have fur. We'll see how things go over the next few chapters, but for now, I'm sticking to what's cannon on the electro ability.
Okay, let me shorten that monstrous comment I wrote then.
If it turned out that Haki was not exclusive to just Skypieans…
And if it turned out that Fishman Karate was not exclusive to just Fishmen...
Why is it so hard to believe that Electro might not be exclusive to just Minks, a race of talking animal men, if another character exists that happens to be a talking animal man?
Maybe we don't know that other characters with fur can't learn because they never bothered to ask that question because fur people that are not Minks are very rare? And Chopper might ask that question soon after this chapter as the only other furry person that is not a Mink in the entire One Piece world?
Electro is only different because Minks can use it as a race. And why can they use it as a race? Probably because they have fur. And fur conducts electricity. Unless you want to say that their electricity has nothing to do with that and Oda just assigned random electricity powers to talking animal people for no real logical reason.
It was never stated that non-fishmen couldn't learn fishman karate. What we've seen so far is that only minks can use electro and we have no evidence that anyone else can at this point.
You mean like how we only saw Kuroobi (who debuted as far back as the Arlong Park arc), Jinbe, and Hody use Fishman Karate until Koala showed up showed up as late as Dressrosa?
Spoiler:
"Life's not about finding out which card is yours, but finding out which cards you're not."
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Probably is the fur. Only very hairy people, including people with long hair with control over it like the boa sisters or kumadori, could use it.
3DS FC: 0516-7666-3837
SW-4128-8032-0729
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Luffy has electric attacks, work that science.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Also, the idea of electro being genetic based...what if...that genetic difference is...the fur? gasps
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Hell, Nami creates lightning from a stick, she's not a Devil Fruit user…..
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Probably is the fur.
Exactly this. Reminds me one that one Rescue Rangers episode where Nimnul kidnapped all the kittens to generate electricity exactly that way.
However, as a horny furry I don't care for logic and reasoning, I just want Carrot!
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Luffy doesn't shave, he doesn't need to, his hair hasn't been seen as rubber, and most of his body hair would get dislodged after a good stretch, like a crazy depilation stunt.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Speaking of hair, it was confirmed that if the flower fruit user was a hairy man, the arms sprouted would have hair, and robin's full body clones had hair in the head, she could use hair way more effectively for disruption attacks, as if she doesn't has to create the actual pores, it would not cause damage to her on receiving an attack. More effective and less dangerous than sprouting hands on a dangerous enemy, sprout hair over their face and mess them up. Well, if her hair is also cut, then is an emergency move as she could only do it a few times before having to go short haired for a few months.
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Well on the topic if non-minks actually can use electro or not, be it with fur or not.
We actually had McGuy "Thunder Lord" using an ability that looks a lot like electro under the Marineford arc.
This guy had a lot of hair and a mustache that easily could be the explanation for why he could use this ability.
It is not a confirmed usage of electro but it looks very similar…. -
Well on the topic if non-minks actually can use electro or not, be it with fur or not.
We actually had McGuy "Thunder Lord" using an ability that looks a lot like electro under the Marineford arc.
This guy had a lot of hair and a mustache that easily could be the explanation for why he could use this ability.
It is not a confirmed usage of electro but it looks very similar….I think that's just Oda really liking having a lot of his characters get lightning attacks the same way he really likes giving them fire attacks (Luffy, Zoro, Usopp, Sanji, and Franky have all had fire attacks at some point).
Spoiler:
"Life's not about finding out which card is yours, but finding out which cards you're not."
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@Count:
I think that's just Oda really liking having a lot of his characters get lightning attacks the same way he really likes giving them fire attacks (Luffy, Zoro, Usopp, Sanji, and Franky have all had fire attacks at some point).
Isn't Chopper actually more likely to be able to wield an electric attack than any other Mink in existence because his Guard Point exponentially increases how much hair he has? If we're just talking about density or surface area, he's got all of them beat (except, possibly, in that transformed state Carrot is in now…unless we're counting the giant Guard Point from post-Time Skip.)
I looked further into Kirin mythology and they often have hooves or antlers; I'd say Chopper's got a fair chance of trying to tap into the mythical side of his animal-ness and wielding some of that kind of power with this inspiration from the Minks. Certainly would give him a good end-of-series powerup to contend with the BB pirates. Certainly better to be able to use it with the Rumble Ball's reasonable limits than only every full moon.
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@Count:
I think that's just Oda really liking having a lot of his characters get lightning attacks the same way he really likes giving them fire attacks (Luffy, Zoro, Usopp, Sanji, and Franky have all had fire attacks at some point).
That could easily be the explanation, but I think it is not out of the realm of explanations that he could have learned electro from the Minks.
He uses electricicity in his weapon just as the minks do it.
He is from the New World and we know for a fact that the Whitebeard pirates were on friendly terms with the minks.
Though I do not think Oda ever will explain McGuys ability unless he gets a SBS question about it.
But my point was more that if this guy could use something similar to electro, surely Chopper can learn it aswell.
Personally I think Oda has been setting up Chopper to learn a martial art before he learns electro. -
@Count:
Okay, let me shorten that monstrous comment I wrote then.
If it turned out that Haki was not exclusive to just Skypieans…
And if it turned out that Fishman Karate was not exclusive to just Fishmen...
Why is it so hard to believe that Electro might not be exclusive to just Minks, a race of talking animal men, if another character exists that happens to be a talking animal man?
Because from what we've been told so far, only minks can use it. It was never stated that haki or fishman karate could only be used by certain people. Can you not see the difference between electro and every other example that people are coming up with? Electrco is the only ability that has been stated as being exclusive to a specific race/species.
Maybe we don't know that other characters with fur can't learn because they never bothered to ask that question because fur people that are not Minks are very rare? And Chopper might ask that question soon after this chapter as the only other furry person that is not a Mink in the entire One Piece world?
Again, the fur argument is a flawed one, because we have no official idea how electro is generated. If fur were the only requirement, should we expect every zoan or animal in the OP world to be capable of using it? For all intents and purposes, Chopper and every other non-mink with fur are in the same bucket. Until Oda specifically says how electrco works, we shouldn't assume that just anyone or anything with fur can use it. We should only go by what's been officially revealed thus far.
Electro is only different because Minks can use it as a race. And why can they use it as a race? Probably because they have fur. And fur conducts electricity. Unless you want to say that their electricity has nothing to do with that and Oda just assigned random electricity powers to talking animal people for no real logical reason.
Again, your entire argument is based off of something that's just a theory…their fur. We have no idea how electro works, but you keep going back to the fur well. Lol!
You mean like how we only saw Kuroobi (who debuted as far back as the Arlong Park arc), Jinbe, and Hody use Fishman Karate until Koala showed up showed up as late as Dressrosa?
Did Jinbe or a fishman ever state that fishman karate could only be used by fishmen the way that Carrot inferred that only minks can use electro?
And two more things and I'll drop this. People saying that other people can generate electricity are missing the point. It's not electro. It's electricity or electric-based attacks. The two things are completely different. Lastly, I find it hilarious that some of the same people that are saying Chopper might be able to get electro are the same people saying that Carrot's possession of it makes her redundant to Nami, so her joining would be pointless. With that logic, wouldn't Chopper gaining electro be the exact same thing since Nami already has electricity-based skills? :getlost: At this point, it actually makes more sense to assume that Carrot will join before Chopper will get mink abilities. It's a much better argument with far more supporting facts.
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Because from what we've been told so far, only minks can use it. It was never stated that haki or fishman karate could only be used by certain people. Can you not see the difference between electro and every other example that people are coming up with? Electrco is the only ability that has been stated as being exclusive to a specific race/species.
And where was this specifically stated? Are you talking about this particular page? Because it could have saved this discussion a lot of trouble if you specified when it was said Minks can only use electricity. I apologize if you mentioned it earlier, but I never saw it in our specific exchange of replies.
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If this is what you mean, then this does give credit to your argument that Minks can only use Electro because of genetics, apparently. But I am still willing to argue that this could be because Randolph has not undergone any specific training to learn Electro, which every Mink born on Zou is expected to have learned as part of their culture. Even very young kid Minks. Oda can go for either route in my opinion.
But what I'm sure of is Chopper and Carrot's relationship becoming more intimate beyond gag buddies after seeing how Chopper's Monster Point capabilities got cushioned by another talking furry animal person. It makes too much sense for Chopper to learn something from a race of talking furry animals like him with how far Oda has gone to draw similarities between them and have Chopper interact with them. Nami and Brook got special feats this arc, Chopper might still get one too.
Again, the fur argument is a flawed one, because we have no official idea how electro is generated. If fur were the only requirement, should we expect every zoan or animal in the OP world to be capable of using it? For all intents and purposes, Chopper and every other non-mink with fur are in the same bucket. Until Oda specifically says how electrco works, we shouldn't assume that just anyone or anything with fur can use it. We should only go by what's been officially revealed thus far.
Until Oda goes into detail about how Electro is used, we can speculate on how it is used as much as we want. We don't have to wait until Oda outright confirms something. That's the point of theorizing. Going off of evidence, both verbally and visually, being familiar with the author's patterns, and using knowledge of narrative patterns to predict future events in the manga. We don't have to stick solely with what has been officially revealed because any good author is going to want to save surprises and twists on certain concepts for later. Not just dump everything out on the first try.
And yes, we probably should expect every furry animal in One Piece to be capable of learning Electro if Chopper can. That's not blasphemous or anything. The reason why Zoans with fur haven't happened to learn Electro up until this point is because of not having the knowledge or training available that the Minks have. Not unlike Sanji learning Sky Walk while running away from transvestites even though he's been training his legs for years, while CP9 was specifically groomed since childhood to learn Rokushiki.
There has to be a good reason why Minks and Minks specifically can use Electro. Given that it most likely has to do with their fur if we go by basic inspirational logic, then it's not a stretch to say Chopper can replicate that.
Again, your entire argument is based off of something that's just a theory…their fur. We have no idea how electro works, but you keep going back to the fur well. Lol!
You say that like talking about their fur conducting electricity sounds dumb or something. You can say "it's just a theory" all you want, but it's obvious that Oda was inspired by how fur conducts static electricity when deciding to have the Minks be able to use Electro. Do you really think that Oda was writing the Minks and decided that they should electricity was a fitting superpower for them as a race just because it looked cool? Or because there might be some type of scientific or fictional inspiration behind it?
Did Jinbe or a fishman ever state that fishman karate could only be used by fishmen the way that Carrot inferred that only minks can use electro?
Nope.
And two more things and I'll drop this. People saying that other people can generate electricity are missing the point. It's not electro. It's electricity or electric-based attacks. The two things are completely different. Lastly, I find it hilarious that some of the same people that are saying Chopper might be able to get electro are the same people saying that Carrot's possession of it makes her redundant to Nami, so her joining would be pointless. With that logic, wouldn't Chopper gaining electro be the exact same thing since Nami already has electricity-based skills? :getlost: At this point, it actually makes more sense to assume that Carrot will join before Chopper will get mink abilities. It's a much better argument with far more supporting facts.
We know they're different types of attacks, we're only commenting on Oda's tendency to give his characters very similar types of elemental attacks like fire and electricity when the only real different is their name and origin rather than doing anything functionally different.
I actually agree that Chopper learning Electro would be redundant with Nami already in the crew. Oda would have to put a really unique functional spin on it to stand out. But the difference between Chopper and Carrot is that the latter ONLY specializes in electricity. And jumping really high and far, I guess, which Sanji already does. Straw Hat abilities can crossover, but they all specialize in at least one particularly major skill that nobody else can do better than them in the crew.
Spoiler:
"Life's not about finding out which card is yours, but finding out which cards you're not."
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Not really, both arguments are about the same in quality. That's why its fun to pair them against each other.
Let's say Electro is indeed something that is unique to the Minks from a genetic/natural standpoint. Why couldn't Chopper use his wits to use what are his characteristics, like his fur, to create a similar technique to it? Given that Sulong requires training, why couldn't he apply techniques related to it for his own Monster Point? Basically Chopper and Carrot are so similar that you could give him her abilities and most of us would be fine with whatever explanation comes at us.
The most sense is that neither Carrot will join nor Chopper will gain Mink abilities.
Also Randolph not using Electro, and therefore not being a Mink only confirms that Randolph is not a Mink. Not, that only Minks can use Electro.
The reason we can debate this, is also because Mink's are warriors from birth. Therefore they all undergo training. We could make the distinction better if they were not all warriors, and the children could still use it. But because they are, then we can ~fantasize~ about how much of their abilities are gained through training.
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@Count:
And where was this specifically stated? Are you talking about this particular page? Because it could have saved this discussion a lot of trouble if you specified when it was said Minks can only use electricity. I apologize if you mentioned it earlier, but I never saw it in our specific exchange of replies.
! http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-dr3PbTwKWTI/WZL544nEPuI/AAAAAAACuVY/CuOiqTX0YqkzMte4No5BGvHyttUOfCRAACHMYBhgL/s16000/0832-004.png
! http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Np_ck2giaXc/WZL55baHujI/AAAAAAACuVc/Rvm_Ft_LaJ8I77lD5-YpiyJlHB830PWJQCHMYBhgL/s16000/0832-005.pngIf this is what you mean, then this does give credit to your argument that Minks can only use Electro because of genetics, apparently. But I am still willing to argue that this could be because Randolph has not undergone any specific training to learn Electro, which every Mink born on Zou is expected to have learned as part of their culture. Even very young kid Minks. Oda can go for either route in my opinion.
Yes. That was what I was referring to. I just assumed at this point you had already looked it up, so I didn't mention it. I understand that argument, but until and unless we see a non-mink use the ability, why should we even theorize that it's possible given Carrot's statement?
But what I'm sure of is Chopper and Carrot's relationship becoming more intimate beyond gag buddies after seeing how Chopper's Monster Point capabilities got cushioned by another talking furry animal person. It makes too much sense for Chopper to learn something from a race of talking furry animals like him with how far Oda has gone to draw similarities between them and have Chopper interact with them. Nami and Brook got special feats this arc, Chopper might still get one too.
I agree that their relationship has grown with them spending almost the entire arc together, but like I said, he only looked at her as his "student" and told her to call him "Chobro" or "Bropper." He looked down on her and her abilities. Only now has he shown any interest in her from a combat perspective.
Until Oda goes into detail about how Electro is used, we can speculate on how it is used as much as we want. We don't have to wait until Oda outright confirms something. That's the point of theorizing. Going off of evidence, both verbally and visually, being familiar with the author's patterns, and using knowledge of narrative patterns to predict future events in the manga. We don't have to stick solely with what has been officially revealed because any good author is going to want to save surprises and twists on certain concepts for later. Not just dump everything out on the first try.
You're right, we can. All I'm saying is, we shouldn't base our entire arguments off of something that goes against what has already been established thus far. What we know is that all minks can use electro. According to Carrot, no one outside of minks can use electro. Chopper is not a mink. Those things are pretty black and white at this point and we've received no hints that Oda has or will break this rule. Right now, your argument is that "Chopper has fur and spent some time with Carrot, so he can learn electro." That's just a bridge I'm not willing to cross at this point.
And yes, we probably should expect every furry animal in One Piece to be capable of learning Electro if Chopper can. That's not blasphemous or anything. The reason why Zoans with fur haven't happened to learn Electro up until this point is because of not having the knowledge or training available that the Minks have. Not unlike Sanji learning Sky Walk while running away from transvestites even though he's been training his legs for years, while CP9 was specifically groomed since childhood to learn Rokushiki.
But it's never once been established that non-minks can use electro. You're assuming that knowledge or training is required. What chapter indicates that? Sky walk was never hinted as being exclusive to a race or a species, so why are you bringing it up? That's apples to oranges. :|
There has to be a good reason why Minks and Minks specifically can use Electro. Given that it most likely has to do with their fur if we go by basic inspirational logic, then it's not a stretch to say Chopper can replicate that.
Again, there is not proof that fur has anything to do with it. It's just speculation at this point. What we know is that all minks can use electro. Not being able to use electro is a sign that you're not a mink. Chopper is not a mink. I feel like I've said this a thousand time. Lol
You say that like talking about their fur conducting electricity sounds dumb or something. You can say "it's just a theory" all you want, but it's obvious that Oda was inspired by how fur conducts static electricity when deciding to have the Minks be able to use Electro. Do you really think that Oda was writing the Minks and decided that they should electricity was a fitting superpower for them as a race just because it looked cool? Or because there might be some type of scientific or fictional inspiration behind it?
I've already said that fur probably does have something to do with it, but it's not written in stone. We've seen a lamb mink, which doesn't have fur as well as pig minks, which don't have fur. How would you explain those?
We know they're different types of attacks, we're only commenting on Oda's tendency to give his characters very similar types of elemental attacks like fire and electricity when the only real different is their name and origin rather than doing anything functionally different.
Again, I'm keeping the scope very narrow and only talking about electro. Oda never hinted that fire-based attacks are exclusive to a race nor anything else like fishman karate or sky walk. I'm talking about electro itself, not other electric-based attacks
I actually agree that Chopper learning Electro would be redundant with Nami already in the crew. Oda would have to put a really unique functional spin on it to stand out. But the difference between Chopper and Carrot is that the latter ONLY specializes in electricity. And jumping really high and far, I guess, which Sanji already does. Straw Hat abilities can crossover, but they all specialize in at least one particularly major skill that nobody else can do better than them in the crew.
Carrot has more than that going for her.
- She's shown good scouting ability.
- She's handling the lookout role like a pro.
- She'd fill the little sister role.
- She's a mink (an important race that'll likely be represented on the PK's crew).
- Right now, she's inheriting Pedro's will.
- She has a unique ability (electro plus her moon skill).
- She fits in well with everyone in the crew we've seen so far (Garchu wouldn't get old unlike Brook's shtick).
- She stated that she wants to see the world. After Wano, I have a hard time belivieing she'll just want to go back to Zou and stay there.
- She an artist (shared with Usopp, but much better).
- Right now, she's the only non-SH who will likely be there when they acquire 3 of the 4 road poneglyphs.
Like I said, some of those arguments are very rudimentary, but collectively, they go further in supporting her as a potential crewmate than having fur allowing Chopper to learn electro.
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Yes. That was what I was referring to. I just assumed at this point you had already looked it up, so I didn't mention it. I understand that argument, but until and unless we see a non-mink use the ability, why should we even theorize that it's possible given Carrot's statement?
Depending on the accuracy of that translation, it can be interpreted to mean that their opponent is a Mink who never learned how to use Electro. Doesn't necessarily imply it's something innate to Minks, it just means it is a skill that needs to be learned. We seem to get the same kind of impression about Sulong mode, where they need to train it to be able to either control it or get the most use out of it (although Sulong itself is a unique Mink ability, but also requires honing to perfect it).
I agree that their relationship has grown with them spending almost the entire arc together, but like I said, he only looked at her as his "student" and told her to call him "Chobro" or "Bropper." He looked down on her and her abilities. Only now has he shown any interest in her from a combat perspective.
Can you blame him? She's not given much indication she's anything resembling Straw Hat material up until now and really her only use up to this point had been simply constituting an extra pair of hands to help out. There's tons of sources of inspiration for the Straw Hats to learn new uses, if not identical to what they've witnessed, then at least a component of whatever they adapt them into. This seems a likely thing for Chopper to want to integrate into his repertoire, given his proficiency with all manner of different transformations.
You're right, we can. All I'm saying is, we shouldn't base our entire arguments off of something that goes against what has already been established thus far. What we know is that all minks can use electro. According to Carrot, no one outside of minks can use electro. Chopper is not a mink. Those things are pretty black and white at this point and we've received no hints that Oda has or will break this rule. Right now, your argument is that "Chopper has fur and spent some time with Carrot, so he can learn electro." That's just a bridge I'm not willing to cross at this point.
ALL Minks? Or only Minks as of yet, not necessarily as an entire species? Just checking, I'm honestly not 100% sure if they ever said it was a universal trait among them. There are stratified ranks of Fishmen, where shark species have that additional strength and ferocity bonus, so this could be the case with Minks where only a select few really have the ability to wield Electro, or to varying degrees based on species. The question is why, as the common denominator seems to be furry bodies. I'm sure an electric eel fishman can do the same but for different biological reasons, and given that other fish like sharks can sense the electromagnetic resonance off of potential prey in the water, why wouldn't non-human species have a more heightened sense of electricity and better understanding of it in order to wield it? That doesn't rule out Chopper, or Jack for that matter. I wouldn't rule them out altogether yet until it's stated specifically why only Minks have yet been known to be capable of that. Whether or not this means Chopper steals the spotlight from her and negates her chances of joining the crew shouldn't be a factor if that's any part of the consideration.
But it's never once been established that non-minks can use electro. You're assuming that knowledge or training is required. What chapter indicates that? Sky walk was never hinted as being exclusive to a race or a species, so why are you bringing it up? That's apples to oranges. :|
Again, there is not proof that fur has anything to do with it. It's just speculation at this point. What we know is that all minks can use electro. Not being able to use electro is a sign that you're not a mink. Chopper is not a mink. I feel like I've said this a thousand time. Lol
I've already said that fur probably does have something to do with it, but it's not written in stone. We've seen a lamb mink, which doesn't have fur as well as pig minks, which don't have fur. How would you explain those?
Again, I'm keeping the scope very narrow and only talking about electro. Oda never hinted that fire-based attacks are exclusive to a race nor anything else like fishman karate or sky walk. I'm talking about electro itself, not other electric-based attacks.
Is there no difference between "non-Minks can't use Electro" and "no non-Mink has ever been known to have used Electro"? There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio. Examples of techniques that aren't unique to species or race are extremely apt here because we don't yet have a reason to believe this is an end-all, be-all declaration that Electro belongs exclusively to Minks any more than things like Rokushiki or Fishman Karate among other things. If anything it's a challenge to overcome if Chopper sets his mind to learning it and if we can have confidence that just one non-Mink in all the goddamn world can learn it, it's going to be him. Not that it's essential, Nami's already got it covered, but it would be a waste for Chopper to not have something to really make his Guard Point dazzle us. Imagine him being a humongous dynamo, a literal bolt of ball lightning, his spherical surface pulsating with electricity. Awesomeness.
And pigs totally have fur, dude, have you never seen one outside of cartoons? Just because Oda may have drawn one without it being visible doesn't mean they don't actually have it, their hair is usually more fine and difficult to see unless you're up close but it's there. Also if they didn't get drawn with fur, maybe they shaved it off or maybe that lends credence to the idea that, while only Minks have yet been known to wield Electro, it's not a universal trait among them all.
Carrot has more than that going for her.
- She's shown good scouting ability.
- She's handling the lookout role like a pro.
- She'd fill the little sister role.
- She's a mink (an important race that'll likely be represented on the PK's crew).
- Right now, she's inheriting Pedro's will.
- She has a unique ability (electro plus her moon skill).
- She fits in well with everyone in the crew we've seen so far (Garchu wouldn't get old unlike Brook's shtick).
- She stated that she wants to see the world. After Wano, I have a hard time belivieing she'll just want to go back to Zou and stay there.
- She an artist (shared with Usopp, but much better).
- Right now, she's the only non-SH who will likely be there when they acquire 3 of the 4 road poneglyphs.
Like I said, some of those arguments are very rudimentary, but collectively, they go further in supporting her as a potential crewmate than having fur allowing Chopper to learn electro.
You're pointing out a lot of things that Usopp is more suited to (scouting/spying/lookout), her abilities are hardly unique even among people already on the crew (electricity and transformation, both of which Nami and Chopper do and do better), Chopper already covers the animal person angle (and in multiple different ways), her 'dream' is hardly of the scope that would befit a Straw Hat, and the rest of things listed are utterly irrelevant. All she really has going for her is that she's female and the crew needs more of that. So if another nakama is to join after Jimbei, it's not Carrot, and I don't think we've met such a person who will round out the crew yet.
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Yes. That was what I was referring to. I just assumed at this point you had already looked it up, so I didn't mention it. I understand that argument, but until and unless we see a non-mink use the ability, why should we even theorize that it's possible given Carrot's statement?
Because it's very intuitive to notice that Oda was likely inspired by how fur can conduct electricity when assigning an ability like Electro to the Minks. And how Chopper being very similar to the Minks on a conceptual level probably isn't a sheer coincidence. And how this arc has been leading to all of the Straw Hats in some form or fashion getting a big spotlight and some pointers on how to enhance their abilities.
I agree that their relationship has grown with them spending almost the entire arc together, but like I said, he only looked at her as his "student" and told her to call him "Chobro" or "Bropper." He looked down on her and her abilities. Only now has he shown any interest in her from a combat perspective.
And now we will get to see where that interest can lead.
You're right, we can. All I'm saying is, we shouldn't base our entire arguments off of something that goes against what has already been established thus far. What we know is that all minks can use electro. According to Carrot, no one outside of minks can use electro. Chopper is not a mink. Those things are pretty black and white at this point and we've received no hints that Oda has or will break this rule. Right now, your argument is that "Chopper has fur and spent some time with Carrot, so he can learn electro." That's just a bridge I'm not willing to cross at this point.
Except that Chopper is very similar to the Minks in design and anatomy outside of full moon transformations. He shares similarities to the point where the only difference is genetic/geographical origin, species name, and Electro usage. According to Carrot, not being able to use Electro means you're not a Mink. That does not necessarily have to mean that non-Minks can never learn to use Electro, only that it's expected for all Minks to use be able to use Electro. All Minks can use Electro, but that does not mean Electro can only be used by Minks.
My argument is also that the Minks can use Electro because they have fur since it's the only logical explanation as to why they can conjure up lightning out of thin air. It's what Oda was inspired by.
But it's never once been established that non-minks can use electro. You're assuming that knowledge or training is required. What chapter indicates that? Sky walk was never hinted as being exclusive to a race or a species, so why are you bringing it up? That's apples to oranges. :|
And it's never once been established that humans can learn Fishman Karate. It was never commented on and left up to assumption. I bet if we never saw Koala learn it, we would all think it could only be learned by Fishmen. Sure, we never got an outright confirmation that humans can't learn it. But it was always left up in the air. Even taking Carrot's quote into consideration, it does not completely debunk the possibility of Chopper being able to learn or be inspired by Mink techniques. Especially if there is no record of any non-Minks learning Electro purely based on historical circumstances of Zoans/furry animals and Minks never interacting in a significant way.
And I'm bringing up Sky Walk as an example of how the Straw Hats have often learned unique trademark techniques of characters they meet. Yes, Sky Walk is not exclusive to a race. But the logical reasoning behind why the Minks are likely able to use Electro is something simple like having fur and most likely some form of training as a warrior society. Similar to how we could assume Geppo could be gained through intense leg training or something, and what do you know, transphobia helped Sanji get the willpower to learn Sky Walk.
Again, there is not proof that fur has anything to do with it. It's just speculation at this point. What we know is that all minks can use electro. Not being able to use electro is a sign that you're not a mink. Chopper is not a mink. I feel like I've said this a thousand time. Lol
There is proof if you look at the basic concept of Minks using Electro and its source of inspiration. Answer me this basic question you keep avoiding. Why would Oda have a race of talking furry animals be able to create static electricity out of electricity if it had nothing to with how fur in real life can build up static charges? Do you think it would make sense if instead of Electro, Oda had all of the Minks had heat vision? Or have freeze breath? Every single idea that Oda comes up with is derived forms sort of existent or fictional concept in how it works. Electro is no exception.
Oda likes to play the long game with coming up with explanations behind abilities like Haki and Fishman Karate. Electro doesn't have to be arbitrarily different even taking Carrot's quote into consideration. We do not need to wait for an explicit explanation if it's very likely it's a very simple answer. We don't need to wait to learn that Luffy being made of rubber is probably immune to Enel's electricity if we have basic scientific knowledge.
I've already said that fur probably does have something to do with it, but it's not written in stone. We've seen a lamb mink, which doesn't have fur as well as pig minks, which don't have fur. How would you explain those?
Lambs are fluffy, they easily fit into the furry/hairy animal theme.
The picture of pig is taken from Whole Cake Island, not Zou. You can see the initial "WCI" in the url, and it's dressed like one of Big Mom's chefs. The One Piece wiki article that you're most likely looking at likely just assumed it was a Mink instead of it probably being a Homie like Randolph. And even if it is a Mink, yeah, some pigs do actually have fur.
Again, I'm keeping the scope very narrow and only talking about electro. Oda never hinted that fire-based attacks are exclusive to a race nor anything else like fishman karate or sky walk. I'm talking about electro itself, not other electric-based attacks
I know. I'm only commenting on a trait Oda's, I know this is a more specialized situation since it involves specific racial capabilities.
Carrot has more than that going for her.
I doubt it.
- She's shown good scouting ability.
You mean looking through binoculars like everybody else has been doing. What Chopper does right after Carrot transforms.
- She's handling the lookout role like a pro.
Like everybody else has done. I'm not seeing how she owns the role like Jinbe's helmsmanship skills have been made a big deal and how Luffy and Brook sucked at helming the ship in the beginning of the arc.
- She'd fill the little sister role.
There is no little sister role. There's only brothers and sisters according to Oda's SBS section.
- She's a mink (an important race that'll likely be represented on the PK's crew).
They can join the Grand Fleet.
- Right now, she's inheriting Pedro's will.
Pedro's extremely vague will of supporting a new dawn that we still barely know about. And that Carrot herself barely understands.
- She has a unique ability (electro plus her moon skill).
Nami has electricity, Sanji has Sky Walk, and the Moon transformation only amps up Carrot's abilities instead of intruding anything new.
- She fits in well with everyone in the crew we've seen so far (Garchu wouldn't get old unlike Brook's shtick).
She doesn't stand out aside from joining in group gags with Luffy and Chopper.
Those Skull Jokes will never get old, you should be branded as this forum's heretic.- She stated that she wants to see the world. After Wano, I have a hard time belivieing she'll just want to go back to Zou and stay there.
You know who else has the dream of wanting to see the world? Chopper. And also wanting to create a universal panacea.
And that's what I'm wondering as well. What will convince her to go back to Zou after all of this if she clearly isn't Straw Hat material?
- She an artist (shared with Usopp, but much better).
lol She is not better than Usopp just because she has a feminine art style as one time gag.
- Right now, she's the only non-SH who will likely be there when they acquire 3 of the 4 road poneglyphs.
Assuming the eleventh and final Straw Hat has already been revealed. And assuming that Carrot isn't going to be overshadowed by Nekomamushi and Inurashi once Wano Country starts like what happened to Conis, Caimie, and Margaret. She and Pedro are this arc's Johnny and Yosaku.
Like I said, some of those arguments are very rudimentary, but collectively, they go further in supporting her as a potential crewmate than having fur allowing Chopper to learn electro.
Are you trying to compare these theories because you want to support Carrot for being a Straw Hat based on evidence you agree with? I feel like you're trying to hide that under the guise of setting a standard of which theories we should supposedly be paying attention to.
Spoiler:
"Life's not about finding out which card is yours, but finding out which cards you're not."
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How do you make it so that when you break up the quotes, you don't have the person's name on top of all of them?
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How do you make it so that when you break up the quotes,
you don't have the person's name on top of all of them?
That what you mean?
How do you make it so that when you break up the quotes,[ /QUOTE]
you don't have the person's name on top of all of them?[/ QUOTE]
I didn't know you could break up a quote and keep a persons name on top of each.
I quote, then separate sentences and paragraphs by putting generic quotes around the text.
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@Count:
Because it's very intuitive to notice that Oda was likely inspired by how fur can conduct electricity when assigning an ability like Electro to the Minks. And how Chopper being very similar to the Minks on a conceptual level probably isn't a sheer coincidence. And how this arc has been leading to all of the Straw Hats in some form or fashion getting a big spotlight and some pointers on how to enhance their abilities.
I get that, but again, we don't know that that's is what is produces electro. Is it so much to ask that we reserve judgement until we learn more? Chopper is still a unique character in the world. There are no other animals that have eaten the human human fruit. Conceptually, if you just lump talking animals into the same category, chopper, the minks, animal homies, maticores, and several others can be classified as the same. Chopper has had a bit of the spotlight, but there's also still plenty of time for him to get some that doesn't involve him somehow inheriting an ability linked to a specific race.
And now we will get to see where that interest can lead.
Yup. We'll see where it goes from here.
Except that Chopper is very similar to the Minks in design and anatomy outside of full moon transformations. He shares similarities to the point where the only difference is genetic/geographical origin, species name, and Electro usage. According to Carrot, not being able to use Electro means you're not a Mink. That does not necessarily have to mean that non-Minks can never learn to use Electro, only that it's expected for all Minks to use be able to use Electro. All Minks can use Electro, but that does not mean Electro can only be used by Minks.
Again, you're painting Chopper with an extremely broad brush. You may as well lump him in with animal homies, maticores, zoans, and any other number of creatures with fur that can talk. And what Carrot said does in fact mean that no one outside of minks can use electro. That's what I've been saying. There is no evidence to the contrary at this point. All you keep pointing to is theories and speculation that is not supported by the story so far.
My argument is also that the Minks can use Electro because they have fur since it's the only logical explanation as to why they can conjure up lightning out of thin air. It's what Oda was inspired by.
Please point me toward the chapter where Oda definitively said fur is the source of electro and that other creatures with fur are capable of learning it. :| Your entire argument is based on a theory that all non-minks or some non-minks are capable of learning electro when you there is not a single bit of evidence to support that claims. Not even one.
And it's never once been established that humans can learn Fishman Karate. It was never commented on and left up to assumption. I bet if we never saw Koala learn it, we would all think it could only be learned by Fishmen. Sure, we never got an outright confirmation that humans can't learn it. But it was always left up in the air. Even taking Carrot's quote into consideration, it does not completely debunk the possibility of Chopper being able to learn or be inspired by Mink techniques. Especially if there is no record of any non-Minks learning Electro purely based on historical circumstances of Zoans/furry animals and Minks never interacting in a significant way.
You're making my point. Electro has been mentioned as being exclusive to minks. No other skill in this series (that I can recall) has had that distinction. That's why you can't lump it in with anything else. Because we've already been told that it's exclusive to minks and it will remain so until we learn more about how it actually works.
And I'm bringing up Sky Walk as an example of how the Straw Hats have often learned unique trademark techniques of characters they meet. Yes, Sky Walk is not exclusive to a race. But the logical reasoning behind why the Minks are likely able to use Electro is something simple like having fur and most likely some form of training as a warrior society. Similar to how we could assume Geppo could be gained through intense leg training or something, and what do you know, transphobia helped Sanji get the willpower to learn Sky Walk.
Again. Point me to the chapter where Oda definitively said electro is caused by fur. All we know so far is that it's been stated that all minks can use electro and non-minks cannot. Forget the logical reasoning for a second and just stick to the facts as we know them today.
There is proof if you look at the basic concept of Minks using Electro and its source of inspiration. Answer me this basic question you keep avoiding. Why would Oda have a race of talking furry animals be able to create static electricity out of electricity if it had nothing to with how fur in real life can build up static charges? Do you think it would make sense if instead of Electro, Oda had all of the Minks had heat vision? Or have freeze breath? Every single idea that Oda comes up with is derived forms sort of existent or fictional concept in how it works. Electro is no exception.
Again, I agree with you in that fur makes the most sense when it comes to electro. However, just because something makes sense doesn't make it factually true. Until we know for a fact, we can't assume.
Oda likes to play the long game with coming up with explanations behind abilities like Haki and Fishman Karate. Electro doesn't have to be arbitrarily different even taking Carrot's quote into consideration. We do not need to wait for an explicit explanation if it's very likely it's a very simple answer. We don't need to wait to learn that Luffy being made of rubber is probably immune to Enel's electricity if we have basic scientific knowledge.
In general, I'd agree, but we've already been expressly told that electro is something only minks can do. No other ability introduced in the series has that distinction. As a result, we have to wait for more of an explanation because the premise is different. Electro cannot be compared to haki, fishman karate, or anything else, because when they were introduced, they weren't specified as being unique to a given race like electro.
Lambs are fluffy, they easily fit into the furry/hairy animal theme.
The picture of pig is taken from Whole Cake Island, not Zou. You can see the initial "WCI" in the url, and it's dressed like one of Big Mom's chefs. The One Piece wiki article that you're most likely looking at likely just assumed it was a Mink instead of it probably being a Homie like Randolph. And even if it is a Mink, yeah, some pigs do actually have fur.
While true, my main point is that there are likely other minks that don't quite have fur. If there's even a possibility of that, then you'd kinda have to hold off on the whole "fur creates electro" argument until we know more.
You mean looking through binoculars like everybody else has been doing. What Chopper does right after Carrot transforms.
I meant her being in the lookout nest a few times as well as her first introduction where she jumped into the sky to scout the whale forest on Zou.
There is no little sister role. There's only brothers and sisters according to Oda's SBS section.
Right. And she would be considered the counterpart to Chopper. The little sister.
They can join the Grand Fleet.
So Roger could have minks in his crew, but the future PK won't. Let's not forget that, without the minks, the SHs would likely never have learned of the road poneglyphs. That's a huge debt. Plus, they're about to battle an emperor together. That kind of relationship to me means that a mink should definitely be in the crew and Carrot would make the most sense at this point.
Pedro's extremely vague will of supporting a new dawn that we still barely know about. And that Carrot herself barely understands.
We're still waiting on more Jinbei backstory and he's a lock to join, so that is not a big deal at this point.
Nami has electricity, Sanji has Sky Walk, and the Moon transformation only amps up Carrot's abilities instead of intruding anything new.
Nami doesn't have electro. She has a climatact that can create thunderclouds. At this point, that's like a Zoro/Brook comparison in that they both use swords.
She doesn't stand out aside from joining in group gags with Luffy and Chopper.
She had a pretty good showing in the most recent character poll. My guess is she does up even more in the next one.
Those Skull Jokes will never get old, you should be branded as this forum's heretic.Please, no more skull jokes or panty quips. I just can't…
You know who else has the dream of wanting to see the world? Chopper. And also wanting to create a universal panacea.
Chopper wants to be the best doctor. Traveling the world in the most likely way to achieve that.
And that's what I'm wondering as well. What will convince her to go back to Zou after all of this if she clearly isn't Straw Hat material?
Good question. I just can see how she just decides to go back after all of this adventuring and facing two emperors. If Pedro is dead (please be dead), then she would definitely want to help the SHs.
lol She is not better than Usopp just because she has a feminine art style as one time gag.
That one time was amazing, though. I hope we see more.
Assuming the eleventh and final Straw Hat has already been revealed. And assuming that Carrot isn't going to be overshadowed by Nekomamushi and Inurashi once Wano Country starts like what happened to Conis, Caimie, and Margaret. She and Pedro are this arc's Johnny and Yosaku.
Come on. I've already given more than enough reasons why she can't be compared to either of them. :getlost:
Are you trying to compare these theories because you want to support Carrot for being a Straw Hat based on evidence you agree with? I feel like you're trying to hide that under the guise of setting a standard of which theories we should supposedly be paying attention to.
I've been saying I think she's a legitimate candidate since last year. It's well documented in my post history. I was never trying to hide that. I was just saying at this point, my rationale for supporting that theory was better than the limited information we have about Chopper somehow learning electro. I'm all for theories in general. I just like them to be based on as many facts as possible. Otherwise, it just ends up being people throwing out the most ridiculous stuff (like Perona joining).
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And what Carrot said does in fact mean that no one outside of minks can use electro. That's what I've been saying. There is no evidence to the contrary at this point. All you keep pointing to is theories and speculation that is not supported by the story so far.
No, it doesn't. It can also be interpreted as Randolph isn't a Mink because he isn't using Electro. Not that non-minks cannot learn electro.
You're making my point. Electro has been mentioned as being exclusive to minks. No other skill in this series (that I can recall) has had that distinction. That's why you can't lump it in with anything else. Because we've already been told that it's exclusive to minks and it will remain so until we learn more about how it actually works.
But their skills or their at least their secret technique is derived from training, why can't electro be the same?
So Roger could have minks in his crew, but the future PK won't. Let's not forget that, without the minks, the SHs would likely never have learned of the road poneglyphs. That's a huge debt. Plus, they're about to battle an emperor together. That kind of relationship to me means that a mink should definitely be in the crew and Carrot would make the most sense at this point.
That is true, but the Minks were there because a member of the Kozuki clan was there, not to mention there were two minks. If we are going to make those type of parallels why not start picking whom else would make the complete samurai-mink squad.
Good question. I just can see how she just decides to go back after all of this adventuring and facing two emperors. If Pedro is dead (please be dead), then she would definitely want to help the SHs.
But none of the minks are going back to Zou. It has been established that they need to find a new place to live. Carrot can help with that.
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I get that, but again, we don't know that that's is what is produces electro. Is it so much to ask that we reserve judgement until we learn more? Chopper is still a unique character in the world. There are no other animals that have eaten the human human fruit. Conceptually, if you just lump talking animals into the same category, chopper, the minks, animal homies, maticores, and several others can be classified as the same. Chopper has had a bit of the spotlight, but there's also still plenty of time for him to get some that doesn't involve him somehow inheriting an ability linked to a specific race.
I'm fine with reserving judgment and ending the discussion here. But I'm still going to bring up the possibilities with Chopper if the topic is still prevalent. And as unique a character as Chopper is, it's quite obvious that the Minks share a theme with Chopper that Oda himself acknowledges, which I doubt he made by sheer coincidence or whimsy that will not get payoff somehow. And yes, I would classify all of them as being able to learn Electro if they receive the proper training and knowledge from the Minks (except the Manticores because they seem too dumb and not able to even stand on two legs).
And I say all of this as somebody who would want nothing more than Chopper to get a new ability that isn't electricity when Nami already has that. Chopper versus Doc Q is probably the final Blackbeard fight I'm looking forward to the most besides Usopp versus Van Auger, so I want Chopper to shine as much he uniquely can all the way up until then. Rather than think something like "oh, Nami or that rabbit girl from a decade ago I barely remember could totally beat this guy too".
Yup. We'll see where it goes from here.
Awesome.
Again, you're painting Chopper with an extremely broad brush. You may as well lump him in with animal homies, maticores, zoans, and any other number of creatures with fur that can talk. And what Carrot said does in fact mean that no one outside of minks can use electro. That's what I've been saying. There is no evidence to the contrary at this point. All you keep pointing to is theories and speculation that is not supported by the story so far.
I don't have any problem lumping them in together, aside from Manticores, when the specifics barely matter when it comes to the simple idea of how Minks probably conduct electricity through their fur. And what Carrot said only specifically means that a talking furry animal not being able to use Electro means they are not a Mink, not that Minks and Minks only can learn Electro. We're both going off of assumptions based on details Oda has not made privy to us yet. Which is the whole point of theorizing even if a lot of evidence isn't yet on the table. Stories operate on twists and hidden build-up to stay entertaining. We can't always only go by what the story has explicitly supported thus far when there are still more details we can weed out if we're clever enough with how the author usually works and what sources of inspiration they are likely drawing from.
Please point me toward the chapter where Oda definitively said fur is the source of electro and that other creatures with fur are capable of learning it. :| Your entire argument is based on a theory that all non-minks or some non-minks are capable of learning electro when you there is not a single bit of evidence to support that claims. Not even one.
Please point me towards the chapter where Oda even explained how or why the Minks can use Electro. He's only said that they just can. There's more room to elaborate on that. I don't need specific evidence when my theory goes off basic intuitive logic when it comes to what Oda was inspired by when creating the Minks. Not unlike the likelihood of the Minks transforming like werewolves under the full moon when we first heard about the full moon being special, even though we had no explicit evidence about what exactly the full moon does to Minks until this chapter.
You're making my point. Electro has been mentioned as being exclusive to minks. No other skill in this series (that I can recall) has had that distinction. That's why you can't lump it in with anything else. Because we've already been told that it's exclusive to minks and it will remain so until we learn more about how it actually works.
Just because Electro has been exclusively used by the Minks thus far does not mean only Minks can learn it. The former is all we can definitively produce from Carrot's statement, the latter is only an inference. A likely inference, but still an inference. And until we learn more about how it actually works, we can speculate on how it works by going off of the exact evidence and likely assumptions we can form.
Again. Point me to the chapter where Oda definitively said electro is caused by fur. All we know so far is that it's been stated that all minks can use electro and non-minks cannot. Forget the logical reasoning for a second and just stick to the facts as we know them today.
I'm saying that the source of inspiration is obvious. No, I'm not giving up my logical reasoning argument when it's also not an explicit fact that Minks can summon electricity for the sheer sake of it. Authors hide things cleverly and intuitively to lead to twists later on. The Occam's razor method of always only relying on the clear cut specified facts doesn't work in a narrative when certain things are still unspecified, left up to assumption, or bound by subjective character perspective for the sake of playing with audience expectations.
Again, I agree with you in that fur makes the most sense when it comes to electro. However, just because something makes sense doesn't make it factually true. Until we know for a fact, we can't assume.
You're right. Which is why I'm also not going to assume it's a fact that the Minks summon electricity out of nowhere when we don't know the specifics about Electro aside from Carrot's quote.
In general, I'd agree, but we've already been expressly told that electro is something only minks can do. No other ability introduced in the series has that distinction. As a result, we have to wait for more of an explanation because the premise is different. Electro cannot be compared to haki, fishman karate, or anything else, because when they were introduced, they weren't specified as being unique to a given race like electro.
We were told that Randolph is not a Mink because he can't use Electro. Not specifically that only Minks can learn Electro. Following chapters after 888 upon Chopper's reaction to Carrot's Sulong form can delve into whether Electro is gained through a genetic disposition or training with certain unique physical traits that is typically (key word, typically) exclusive to the Minks.
While true, my main point is that there are likely other minks that don't quite have fur. If there's even a possibility of that, then you'd kinda have to hold off on the whole "fur creates electro" argument until we know more.
Or I can still bring it up as a possibility and humbly admit I'm wrong if either nothing happens or we find out more info about the Minks. I'm not saying it is 100% guaranteed that Chopper will learn Electro or some full moon-esque form from Carrot, only that it is possible given the context of this chapter having Monster Point be outshined and Chopper finally acknowledging Carrot's impressive skill.
I meant her being in the lookout nest a few times
Like a bunch of other characters have done throughout the series.
as well as her first introduction where she jumped into the sky to scout the whale forest on Zou.
Which Sanji could have done if he was there. I still don't get how Carrot will ever be a better lookout than Sanji or Usopp, especially when they both have Observation Haki, if she only contributes the ability to jump really high. The best idea I heard on this thread as to how Carrot can be a great lookout is if her rabbit ears have advanced hearing, but Oda hasn't made any use of that (and Franky said he has advanced hearing during Dressrosa too lol).
Right. And she would be considered the counterpart to Chopper. The little sister.
So you admit that she's nothing more than female Chopper, as if simply being female is enough of a trait to make her distinct. I don't remember Nami being a female Luffy, or Robin being a female Zoro.
So Roger could have minks in his crew, but the future PK won't.
I don't remember Roger having cyborgs, talking skeletons, or even a single Fishman in his crew. And I doubt Luffy's ever getting a cabin boy.
Let's not forget that, without the minks, the SHs would likely never have learned of the road poneglyphs. That's a huge debt. Plus, they're about to battle an emperor together. That kind of relationship to me means that a mink should definitely be in the crew and Carrot would make the most sense at this point.
I don't think Luffy gives a damn about debts when he told the Grand Fleet to buzz off when they said they want to follow him because they owe
Usopphim their lives. And Luffy's battling an Emperor with a bunch of Supernovas too. I suppose Law's going to join then. It would fit with how he got a flashback on Dressrosa and how Luffy owes him to starting up this entire alliance to take down Kaido in the first place, and is the reason why Luffy even got to Zou. Chopper couldn't even save the Punk Hazard kids on his own, so he can be replaced for Law as the crew's doctor.We're still waiting on more Jinbei backstory and he's a lock to join, so that is not a big deal at this point.
But we still got the Fishman Island flashback and unique capabilities/personality. Meanwhile, Carrot has a page reminiscing about her mentor at the last minute right before or after he died. And he blew himself up just like Dr. Hiluluk did.
Nami doesn't have electro. She has a climatact that can create thunderclouds. At this point, that's like a Zoro/Brook comparison in that they both use swords.
But they function exactly the same in shocking people. And Nami can do more things than shocking people that other people can't replicate like making mirages, cloud bridges, and having an extendable staff weapon. Brook is super fast, has healing, can hypnotize, can release his soul for recon, and can freeze people to distinguish him from Zoro being a really strong swordsman with wind attacks who can cut steel and will probably learn how to cut fire if Usopp's lie on Zou comes true.
Carrot doesn't have anything that doesn't already extend from Nami, Sanji, and Chopper.
She had a pretty good showing in the most recent character poll. My guess is she does up even more in the next one.
I don't think we should rely on polls to deem character quality when Hancock somehow made it to the Top Ten during Dressrosa and the likes of Marco, Rebecca, and Shirahoshi were in the top twenty/thirty because God knows why.
Please, no more skull jokes or panty quips. I just can't…
The panty quips I can do without. Most pervert characters in manga/anime cross into sexual harassment and even borderline rape way too often, and both Brook and Sanji are two of them. Although that's more me talking about how Brook peeks up skirts and Sanji tried to fondle Nami's boobs while in her body during Punk Hazard. Only asking a girl what color her panties are for a first greeting is fine for shonen humor. The problem is when he keeps saying that exact thing over and over again to beat a one trick pony to death.
But the skeleton puns are glorious. And even if you don't like them, you have to admit it was funny when Brook ripped off his Luffy mask and everybody around him got terrified that he actually ripped his real face flesh off.
Chopper wants to be the best doctor. Traveling the world in the most likely way to achieve that.
And what does Carrot offer when her dream is a much more simplified version of Chopper's besides Pedro's goal that we still barely have any idea about?
Good question. I just can see how she just decides to go back after all of this adventuring and facing two emperors. If Pedro is dead (please be dead), then she would definitely want to help the SHs.
Pedro's not dying. The question is moreso if the Straw Hats will know if Pedro is still alive when he's revealed to still be alive. They usually already leave the island before figuring out that the likes of Pell or Bon Clay happened to survive.
That one time was amazing, though. I hope we see more.
I wouldn't mind seeing more, but I have no idea how good art is going to become relevant during the rest of the arc. Unless you want to give the benefit of the doubt of Carrot drawing some cool olden Japanese-esque paintings in Wano Country or something.
All this talk about a crew artist makes me wish a female as unique looking as Jora could join the crew. I'm sick of the "beautiful", abnormally hourglass-shaped, long haired, skinny females with bright complexion that barely want to participate in fun activities. And no, being female Chopper isn't enough.
Come on. I've already given more than enough reasons why she can't be compared to either of them. :getlost:
She definitely has more going on than them. But she still most likely is the New World version of them in terms of plot role. Carrot doesn't seem to even really have a reason to be in this arc until Pedro died, assuming the whole dream inheritance thing even goes anywhere. And/or, you know, Chopper learns something from her.
I've been saying I think she's a legitimate candidate since last year. It's well documented in my post history. I was never trying to hide that. I was just saying at this point, my rationale for supporting that theory was better than the limited information we have about Chopper somehow learning electro. I'm all for theories in general. I just like them to be based on as many facts as possible. Otherwise, it just ends up being people throwing out the most ridiculous stuff (like Perona joining).
It's still weird to jump between two different theories that don't need to be related unless you're trying to say that only one can be true because it disproves the other. Even if you're trying to make a point about one having more evidence to go off of than the other, while ignoring that there are different contexts for both of those situations. Different contexts will bring up different types and amounts of facts. Not every theory, even if it eventually comes true, is going to have a bunch of facts pulling for it like another theory. Not that theories should automatically be given the benefit of the doubt if they have glaring holes in them, like Perona or Monet joining the crew, but my point is that they're two different things.
I've considered her disqualified ever since I noticed how bland and derivative both her design and personality are. I am not accepting that Oda wants to go from:
Reformed RPG boss Yakuza clothed martyr waterbending karate master fat whale shark man with an eye scar and a chest sun tattoo,
to:
Tomboy bunny electric warrior girl with orange shirt that says "RABBIT".
Especially when Carrot has done so little this arc aside from this chapter, the Mirror World, and Pedro's death (where she didn't do anything besides getting stomped (literally lol) by Katakuri).
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I've said this more than once but I'm glad Count Mario is here. He has the energy to do these long writeups that I would do years ago and brings up basically all the points I would have made or countered with. I just don't have the energy or time anymore.
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For those who say electro is related to anything other than having fur, just watch this:
Seriously, this isn't any special or complicated concept - not even remotely close. Occam's razor blatantly tells it's due to their fur.
And even if it were - theoretically - related somehow to the minks DNA it still is a strawman to say that it means Chopper cannot replicate it. It only needs one or at max two panels with Chopper saying some science stuff and then just doing electro perfectly fine.
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If Randolph, a warrior bunny (with fur) who has been surrounded by minks likely since he was granted a soul is unable to use electro then that does suggest that it can't be learnt. Having fur that would likely have been a power he would have tried to learn. He could have possibly asked an experienced mink like Pekoms, or some civilian minks. The fact that he can't suggests that it isn't a power that can be taught.
Also Carrot said "you are unable". She didn't say "you don't know how to". That makes it seem like it isn't something that can't change. Even infant civilian minks that haven't done any battle training can use electro. The fact that a furry yonko subordinate like Randolph can't suggests that electro is unique to minks alone.
"Carrot doesn't have anything that doesn't already extend from Nami, Sanji, and Chopper." - Count Mario
Couldn't we do this with other straw hats though?
What can Jimbei do that the others can't do?
Sanji can swim as fast as a fishman
Chopper can talk to animals
Chopper has a point dedicated to kung fu so he has knowledge of the martial art. Why can't Jimbei teach Chopper fishman karate?
They can use the flutter bubbles to fight underwater
Anyone can helm the ship.These are a lot of skills Jimbei brings with him to the crew and it will greatly help when he officially joins. Jimbei is still useful despite the crew already being able to do everything he can do. They aren't as effective at doing what he does, but they can still get by. That doesn't make Jimbei useless though and he will still be an awesome addition to the crew but as you can see there is not much point in just saying that Sanji, Nami and Chopper can do what Carrot has shown so far because Carrot is showing that her style is different and none of them can do everything that she can do.
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@Rival:
If Randolph, a warrior bunny (with fur) who has been surrounded by minks likely since he was granted a soul is unable to use electro then that does suggest that it can't be learnt. Having fur that would likely have been a power he would have tried to learn. He could have possibly asked an experienced mink like Pekoms, or some civilian minks. The fact that he can't suggests that it isn't a power that can be taught.
How would Randolph be able to learn an ability like Electro by himself if he's never been taught it? That's leaving things up to sheer unlikely change.
Also Carrot said "you are unable". She didn't say "you don't know how to". That makes it seem like it isn't something that can change. Even infant civilian minks that haven't done any battle training can use electro. The fact that a furry yonko subordinate like Randolph can't suggests that electro is unique to minks alone.
Those quoted words are interchangeable. And how do we know that the Mink younglings don't go through training too? It's a warrior society. Everybody's likely trained since birth. Randolph isn't likely to learn Electro if he's never been around anybody to inspire the idea or help him learn how to do it.
"Carrot doesn't have anything that doesn't already extend from Nami, Sanji, and Chopper." - Count Mario
I almost forgot Luffy and Usopp too, thanks for reminding me.
Couldn't we do this with loads of straw hats though?
Feel free, I'll refute every single claim.
What can Jimbei do that the others can't do?
Plenty of things.
Sanji can swim as fast as a fishman
But is Sanji a water bender? Maybe he can master all four elements if he's the Avatar since he already mastered fire bending though. I can miss subtle details like that.
Chopper can talk to animals
Land animals and sea animals Chopper is not near enough to either talk to or hear from are different, especially when he can't breathe underwater or even swim.
Chopper has a point dedicated to kung fu so he has knowledge of the martial art. Why can't Jimbei teach Chopper fishman karate?
Honestly… why not? Why not also let Zoro train Brook? Why not have the Monster Trio teach everybody else how to use Observation and Armament Haki? Why can't Usopp and Franky build more weapons for other crew members besides only Nami? Why can't Chopper invent Rumble Balls that can interact with Luffy, Robin, and Brook's Devil Fruits as well?
The answer is that authors want their characters to be unique. So they skip out on having their main characters teach other useful skills most of the time unless it's needed for some form of significant character development. This is why Iron Man doesn't build suits for other powerless Avengers like Black Widow and Hawkeye.
They can use the flutter bubbles to fight underwater
Sure. And they can all keep some Impact and Flame Dials on hand to make fights easier too. But the reason why that doesn't happen is because of the point I made above.
Anyone can helm the ship.
But can anyone helm the ship well enough to sail through the likes of a tidal wave's Green Room?
These are a lot of skills Jimbei brings with him to the crew and it will greatly help when he officially joins. Jimbei is still useful despite the crew already being able to do everything he can do. They aren't as effective at doing what he does, but they can still get by. That doesn't make Jimbei useless though and he will still be an awesome addition to the crew but as you can see there is not much point in just saying that Sanji, Nami and Chopper can do what Carrot has shown so far because Carrot is showing that her style is different and none of them can do everything that she can do.
Name one specific skill Carrot does that a Straw Hat can't do as good or better. Jinbe can do that. So why not Carrot? Unless that means she's not going to be a new crew member… right?
And are you trying to say that it's okay for a new crewmate to do nothing unique so long as they only have a skillset of Straw Hat abilities that each Straw Hat only finds one skill to have in common with? That's some pretty lazy and underwhelming writing if I ever see that happen with Oda.
Spoiler:
"Life's not about finding out which card is yours, but finding out which cards you're not."
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How do you quote multiple things in one post?
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@Rival:
How do you quote multiple things in one post?
I quote your entire post, and then literally type in several
and
tags inside (but remove the single spaces I put in those tags). It requires free time and patience, so I understand if it's not something you want to do. Unless you don't have a life. I don't lol.
Spoiler:
"Life's not about finding out which card is yours, but finding out which cards you're not."
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Carrot can do what others can do but better. Her electric powers don't need regenerating or have to be contextual she can use it at will. Her bunny jump powers don't need to be aided by geppou or sky walk. Her acrobatics are more impressive than most in the crew. Only Luffy and Sanji are better or on par. Her transformation can be brought out without the moon maybe with Bropper's help, he could be intrigued enough to research into it not just for himself but got the minks when they go up against Beast crew. He saved them with his medicine maybe he can amplify their abilities with drugs. Not farfetched to say because…rumble balls... The simplicity does go against her I can't argue against that but she has weird gags that are funny enough chewing on Luffy randomly lol those drawings as was mentioned before. Yeah her role is covered by most the crew but so was helmsman position for 25 odd years haha
Year of Sanji, let's go!
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Has Sanji been shown he's as fast as a fishmen under water that weren't some grunts? (Maybe I'm not remembering Arlong Park feats or something?)
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There's nothing unique, Carrot can offer. She can do that floaty thing? Sanji can Geppou and Luffy can use his fruit to do a cool rubber helicopter floaty thing too. Chopper has a jumping point. She can be a lookout? Sorry, Usopp can do that just fine since his eye sight is fantastic already.
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Has Sanji been shown he's as fast as a fishmen under water? (Maybe I'm not remembering Arlong Park feats or something?)
Maybe not as fast as fishman but blue walk is pretty darn fast. Even Zoro is nimble in water. They're just held back by oxygen.
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Carrot can do what others can do but better. Her electric powers don't need regenerating or have to be contextual she can use it at will. Her bunny jump powers don't need to be aided by geppou or sky walk. Her acrobatics are more impressive than most in the crew. Only Luffy and Sanji are better or on par. Her transformation can be brought out without the moon maybe with Bropper's help, he could be intrigued enough to research into it not just for himself but got the minks when they go up against Beast crew. He saved them with his medicine maybe he can amplify their abilities with drugs. Not farfetched to say because…rumble balls... The simplicity does go against her I can't argue against that but she has weird gags that are funny enough chewing on Luffy randomly lol those drawings as was mentioned before. Yeah her role is covered by most the crew but so was helmsman position for 25 odd years haha
Now we're getting into technicalities about what causes these abilities rather than the basic functions they're meant to serve, which is all pretty much the same.
And at least we had that one page of Luffy and Brook sucking at helming the Thousand Sunny early in this arc to hint that Jinbe would be a good helmsman. Nobody's talked about the Lookout role at all in any significant way.
Has Sanji been shown he's as fast as a fishmen under water? (Maybe I'm not remembering Arlong Park feats or something?)
He used Blue Walk in Punk Hazard when rescuing Kin'emon from drowning. So maybe somebody said it there. Also, Zoro attacked faster than Hody underwater.
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There's nothing unique, Carrot can offer. She can do that floaty thing? Sanji can Geppou and Luffy can use his fruit to do a cool rubber helicopter floaty thing too. Chopper has a jumping point. She can be a lookout? Sorry, Usopp can do that just fine since his eye sight is fantastic already.
Any of the crew can steer the ship. Jinbei can do it better that's all. His knowledge of sea currents is pretty useful. But they've been getting by just fine until now so what's unique here?
Year of Sanji, let's go!
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Any of the crew can steer the ship. Jinbei can do it better that's all. His knowledge of sea currents is pretty useful. But they've been getting by just fine until now so what's unique here?
The fact that he does it better is still unique enough. He is not essential (no crewmate is going to be after Franky), but unique skills and proficiency still matter.
Spoiler:
"Life's not about finding out which card is yours, but finding out which cards you're not."
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Any of the crew can steer the ship. Jinbei can do it better that's all. His knowledge of sea currents is pretty useful. But they've been getting by just fine until now so what's unique here?
I don't think I mentioned Jimbe at all though? I already know about his feats as a helmsman and his character.
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Carrot, however, is essential. No one else is so perfect at… having fluffy bunny boobs.
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@Count:
The fact that he does it better is still unique enough. He is not essential (no crewmate is going to be after Franky), but unique skills and proficiency still matter.
My point exactly when it comes to proficiency.
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Carrot, however, is essential. No one else is so perfect at… having fluffy bunny boobs.
Just wait for Chopper to make a bad rumble ball to gender swap him.
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@Rival:
If Randolph, a warrior bunny (with fur) who has been surrounded by minks likely since he was granted a soul is unable to use electro then that does suggest that it can't be learnt. Having fur that would likely have been a power he would have tried to learn. He could have possibly asked an experienced mink like Pekoms, or some civilian minks. The fact that he can't suggests that it isn't a power that can be taught.
No, it doesn't. You are assuming that the Mink traditions are taught to anyone. Chopper could be taught because he, you know…saved them? What did Randolph do for Pekoms, or any other Mink for them to divulge their techniques?
Also Carrot said "you are unable". She didn't say "you don't know how to". That makes it seem like it isn't something that can't change.
That's a trivial difference.
Even infant civilian minks that haven't done any battle training can use electro. The fact that a furry yonko subordinate like Randolph can't suggests that electro is unique to minks alone.
The mink children have all received battle training. In the same page they even elaborate that the musketeers have gone through "even more training".
What can Jimbei do that the others can't do?
He can get Robin to call him handsome.
Sanji can swim as fast as a fishman
But not as fast as Jimbe.
Chopper can talk to animals
But can he talk to fish?
Chopper has a point dedicated to kung fu so he has knowledge of the martial art. Why can't Jimbei teach Chopper fishman karate?
Wouldn't that be awesome? Good thing fishman karate does not exclude anyone from learning it.
They can use the flutter bubbles to fight underwater
A lifeline that Jimbe does not need.
Anyone can helm the ship.
Anyone can pilot/drive anything, doesn't mean they are good at it. Considering the Straw Hats have needed the Coup de Burst so many times to escape different situations. Garp was firing at them and beginning to chase they had to use it. Big Mom's fleet is chasing them and Big Mom herself, they cannot catch up to Jimbe piloting the ship once he gains momentum. The only reason the Straw Hats are able to navigate the seas without needing one is because they have superhuman strength, even then, one of their ships got destroyed.
These are a lot of skills Jimbei brings with him to the crew and it will greatly help when he officially joins. Jimbei is still useful despite the crew already being able to do everything he can do. They aren't as effective at doing what he does, but they can still get by. That doesn't make Jimbei useless though and he will still be an awesome addition to the crew but as you can see there is not much point in just saying that Sanji, Nami and Chopper can do what Carrot has shown so far because Carrot is showing that her style is different and none of them can do everything that she can do.
The difference is that Jimbe is explicitly better at many of the things you mentioned while Carrot will not outdo Sanji in terms of jumping, the latter can perform mid air jumps. Nor will she better at detecting/scouting than Ussop given that he just acquired observation haki that is able to detect exact presences across a city. Chopper might not be able to become a Moon Lion, but he has 7 transformations each quirky and unique, not only badass.
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I don't think I mentioned Jimbe at all though? I already know about his feats as a helmsman and his character.
My point bringing him was lack of uniqueness doesn't have to disqualify a candidate per se.
Year of Sanji, let's go!
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Carrot, however, is essential. No one else is so perfect at… having fluffy bunny boobs.
Chopper isn't enough to appease the furries in the fan base. Bodacious bunny can help in that regard. (Talking about Ceylon version of course).
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My point bringing him was lack of uniqueness doesn't have to disqualify a candidate per se.
I agree to that. Jimbe was introduced and had substantial development time to be established as a Strawhat. He is a really awesome character.
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