Chapter 709: King Punch

Aohige_AP

Dude come on, wasn't it stated(or at least heavily implied) that if you master your fruit enough or/and have haki stronger than your opponet you'll be able to bypass their defense? :| obviously Law did one of these two things, or both of them, and thats how he managed to cut vergo.

The only conclusion you can draw from the Law vs Vergo fight, is that perhaps Law's haki was strong enough that his attack could overcome Vergo's defensive haki.
That doesn't mean Law's haki > Vergo's haki. It simply would mean Law's offensive haki + his ability > Vergo's defensive haki.

Offensive force and defensive force are not a simple mathematical equal.

NER

@Aohige_AP:

The only conclusion you can draw from the Law vs Vergo fight, is that perhaps Law's haki was strong enough that his attack could overcome Vergo's defensive haki.
That doesn't mean Law's haki > Vergo's haki. It simply would mean Law's offensive haki + his ability > Vergo's defensive haki.

Offensive force and defensive force are not a simple mathematical equal.

Okay, let me rethink this.
Law DF used to mean nothing to Vergo because of his level of defensive Haki, but now its different, Law cut him, how?
its one those:
-He have a stronger offensive haki now
-He mastered his ability enough to bypass Vergo's defensive Haki
-Both

sounds right now? I am kinda a n00b when it comes to these stuff, I bet you can tell.

cyclone

As far as the Whole Law vs vergo thing Heres my theory on the matter.

Theory: The strength of Armament haki needed to block Laws slashes is dependent upon the size to which he expands his room. Think about it , Smoker told tashigi Her haki could not stand up to Laws abilllity but his could. And smoker proved as much by repeatedly blocking and reflecting laws sword with his jutte. On top of that he didn't even use the black hardening haki but basic armaments and was successful in defending.

Yet against Vergo he used the stronger Hardening Haki and had his jutte broken by Vergo's demon bambo clad in black hardening haki. Thus we can conclude that Vergo has superior Armaments haki , however he couldnt block or deflect laws slash and as a result got disassembled by Laws ability.

So what changed with Law in the course of the fight between him and smoker to his fight with Vergo? I dont buy that he suddenly just became better at haki especially considering he didnt use hardening haki. The only thing that makes sense to me is that he increased the size of his ROOM to a much larger area than he ever did against smoker and thus increased the level of his slashing abillity. This makes sense because he not only cut through Vergo but the entire Lab AND the entire mountain range surrounding the lab.

The bigger his room is the more his powers amplify.

Shadowgreed

@cyclone:

As far as the Whole Law vs vergo thing Heres my theory on the matter.

Theory: The strength of Armament haki needed to block Laws slashes is dependent upon the size to which he expands his room. Think about it , Smoker told tashigi Her haki could not stand up to Laws abilllity but his could. And smoker proved as much by repeatedly blocking and reflecting laws sword with his jutte. On top of that he didn't even use the black hardening haki but basic armaments and was successful in defending.

Yet against Vergo he used the stronger Hardening Haki and had his jutte broken by Vergo's demon bambo clad in black hardening haki. Thus we can conclude that Vergo has superior Armaments haki , however he couldnt block or deflect laws slash and as a result got disassembled by Laws ability.

So what changed with Law in the course of the fight between him and smoker to his fight with Vergo? I dont buy that he suddenly just became better at haki especially considering he didnt use hardening haki. The only thing that makes sense to me is that he increased the size of his ROOM to a much larger area than he ever did against smoker and thus increased the level of his slashing abillity. This makes sense because he not only cut through Vergo but the entire Lab AND the entire mountain range surrounding the lab.

The bigger his room is the more his powers amplify.

the bigger his room is the more power he amplifies, sounds good but HEARTH man HEARTH

Smiley

@cyclone:

As far as the Whole Law vs vergo thing Heres my theory on the matter.

Theory: The strength of Armament haki needed to block Laws slashes is dependent upon the size to which he expands his room. Think about it , Smoker told tashigi Her haki could not stand up to Laws abilllity but his could. And smoker proved as much by repeatedly blocking and reflecting laws sword with his jutte. On top of that he didn't even use the black hardening haki but basic armaments and was successful in defending.

Yet against Vergo he used the stronger Hardening Haki and had his jutte broken by Vergo's demon bambo clad in black hardening haki. Thus we can conclude that Vergo has superior Armaments haki , however he couldnt block or deflect laws slash and as a result got disassembled by Laws ability.

So what changed with Law in the course of the fight between him and smoker to his fight with Vergo? I dont buy that he suddenly just became better at haki especially considering he didnt use hardening haki. The only thing that makes sense to me is that he increase the size of his ROOM to a much larger area than he ever did against smoker and thus increased the level of his slashing abillity. This makes sense because he not only cut through Vergo but the entire Lab AND the entire mountain range surrounding the lab.

The bigger his room is the more his powers amplify.

That's quite good theory and if is proved true then GODDAMMIT Law stop being overpowered.

Drake_Cloud

@cyclone:

As far as the Whole Law vs vergo thing Heres my theory on the matter.

Theory: The strength of Armament haki needed to block Laws slashes is dependent upon the size to which he expands his room. Think about it , Smoker told tashigi Her haki could not stand up to Laws abilllity but his could. And smoker proved as much by repeatedly blocking and reflecting laws sword with his jutte. On top of that he didn't even use the black hardening haki but basic armaments and was successful in defending.

Yet against Vergo he used the stronger Hardening Haki and had his jutte broken by Vergo's demon bambo clad in black hardening haki. Thus we can conclude that Vergo has superior Armaments haki , however he couldnt block or deflect laws slash and as a result got disassembled by Laws ability.

So what changed with Law in the course of the fight between him and smoker to his fight with Vergo? I dont buy that he suddenly just became better at haki especially considering he didnt use hardening haki. The only thing that makes sense to me is that he increased the size of his ROOM to a much larger area than he ever did against smoker and thus increased the level of his slashing abillity. This makes sense because he not only cut through Vergo but the entire Lab AND the entire mountain range surrounding the lab.

The bigger his room is the more his powers amplify.

Interesting idea actually. It could also give us a better insight to how Law's DF actually works (since its still up in the air right now).

Also, this could be Law's weakness. His room might not be able to expand instantly, meaning his powers would have to be "Charged" to get strong enough–which would explain how Vergo was able to beat the shit out of him before Smoker came by to give him some cover.

Shadowgreed

@Drake_Cloud:

Interesting idea actually. It could also give us a better insight to how Law's DF actually works (since its still up in the air right now).

Also, this could be Law's weakness. His room might not be able to expand instantly, meaning his powers would have to be "Charged" to get strong enough–which would explain how Vergo was able to beat the shit out of him before Smoker came by to give him some cover.

Vergo was beating the shit out him because he didn't have his heart, he was handicapped and may be he couldn't do a big enough room without his heart that will explain how Smoker + haki could hold his own against Law's slashes but Vergo who is a monster at it couldn't or Smoker just have better haki than Vergo who we know ain't true and also we already know that his room appears as soon as he say room, it doesn't charge at all

garonne

On the topic of calling Law a swordsman, i dont think we should at this moment.

Swordsmanship is in itself an artform, the same way martial arts is and as such, we havent seen law do anything pertaining to such. What he is, is a surgeon who happens to use a sword as a tool/weapon.
You wouldnt call a person who just so happens to use a gun a marksman,
a person who stitches you up and applies bandages a doctor,
or a person who patches up a ship a shipwright.

This is not saying its not possible he is a swordsman, or that he doesnt have an artform, i'm just saying at this point just carrying and swinging around a sword doesnt make you a swordsman.

cyclone

I agree. Law isnt a swordsman he just uses a sword to augment his devil fruit to take full advantage of it's ability in combat situations

garonne

@cyclone:

Theory: The strength of Armament haki needed to block Laws slashes is dependent upon the size to which he expands his room.

The bigger his room is the more his powers amplify.

Nice theory, i think this is believable.

apologized

it's like Shanks … he use sword also but it's not swordman

labmate

@garonne:

On the topic of calling Law a swordsman, i dont think we should at this moment.

Swordsmanship is in itself an artform, the same way martial arts is and as such, we havent seen law do anything pertaining to such. What he is, is a surgeon who happens to use a sword as a tool/weapon.
You wouldnt call a person who just so happens to use a gun a marksman,
a person who stitches you up and applies bandages a doctor,
or a person who patches up a ship a shipwright.

This is not saying its not possible he is a swordsman, or that he doesnt have an artform, i'm just saying at this point just carrying and swinging around a sword doesnt make you a swordsman.

I've laughed at it so many times but never said anything… I LOVE YOU SIG.

Oh, and yea, that makes sense.

Koliber

@apologized:

it's like Shanks … he use sword also but it's not swordman

What are you basing this on? We've never seen him fighting seriously, the closest would be stopping Akainu with a sword (and I highly doubt he'd use secondary weapon against Admiral). Besides, the fact that Mihawk have once seen a rival in him strongly implies that he indeed is a swordsman. If you're reffering to the fact that Mihawk is the best swordsman and Shanks is probably stronger - well, maybe Redhair is inferior to him in swordsmanship but makes up for it in other areas.

hamad138

Red Hair is never better than Mihawk in Swordsmanship. Mihawk is considered as the best Swordsman in the World. Hell didnt Mihawk said to shanks he dont fight 1 Arm weaklings?this alone should imply how strong he is..

DARK_RITUAL

@hamad138:

Red Hair is never better than Mihawk in Swordsmanship. Mihawk is considered as the best Swordsman in the World. Hell didnt Mihawk said to shanks he dont fight 1 Arm weaklings?this alone should imply how strong he is..

whats next? Burgess will oneshot Shanks? I mean he did beat everyone in his block an instance.

The Laughing Man

@DARK_RITUAL:

whats next? Burgess will oneshot Shanks? I mean he did beat everyone in his block an instance.

Your point is completely moot, because Mihawk actually holds the title of the "Best Swordsman in the World", ergo: He's a better swordsman than Shanks.

Also. I wouldn't be surprised if Mihawk and Shanks are on equal footing when it comes to overall combat prowess; overall meaning swordsmanship (which Mihawk is confirmed better at by title alone), Haki, intelligence etc. They were said to be rivals (or something of the sort) afterall.

DARK_RITUAL

@The:

Your point is completely moot, because Mihawk actually holds the title of the "Best Swordsman in the World", ergo: He's a better swordsman than Shanks.

Also. I wouldn't be surprised if Mihawk and Shanks are on equal footing when it comes to overall combat prowess; overall meaning swordsmanship (which Mihawk is confirmed better at by title alone), Haki, intelligence etc. They were said to be rivals (or something of the sort) afterall.

I guess it's lecture time…

The Laughing Man

@DARK_RITUAL:

I guess it's lecture time…

There's nothing to lecture about. Unless you want to try and refute FACTS stated in the story, that's written by Oda himself.

DARK_RITUAL

@The:

There's nothing to lecture about. Unless you want to try and refute FACTS stated in the story, that's written by Oda himself.

Nothing to lecture about but your giving them to me right now. Mmm

Kevin91

@The:

Your point is completely moot, because Mihawk actually holds the title of the "Best Swordsman in the World", ergo: He's a better swordsman than Shanks.

Also. I wouldn't be surprised if Mihawk and Shanks are on equal footing when it comes to overall combat prowess; overall meaning swordsmanship (which Mihawk is confirmed better at by title alone), Haki, intelligence etc. They were said to be rivals (or something of the sort) afterall.

Mihawk probably holds that title in a similar way that Zoro will meaning he beat the old "best swordsman". Shanks is shown to use a sword as his primary weapon and most people aren't going to disqualify a guy for using haki in a sword fight. Their is no way of knowing who is stronger between the two, and that title is hardly evidence that Mihawk is better. It's very possible that Shanks just doesn't want the title, or Mihawk's poor social skills kept him from being an Emperor; either option is just as viable as the other.

Shuhan

"So you think you're a Swordsman?" Coming to Fox this summer!

Don't miss its partner show "So you think you can Hokage?"

Cyclone_Baroness

@Shuhan:

"So you think you're a Swordsman?" Coming to Fox this summer!

Don't miss its partner show "So you think you can Hokage?"

If only I had space in my sig.

garonne

@krule274:

I've laughed at it so many times but never said anything… I LOVE YOU SIG.

Oh, and yea, that makes sense.

lol, thanks man. got it from someone in this very forum, couldnt help but take it, quite hilarious at the time and still funny now.

The Laughing Man

@Kevin91:

Mihawk probably holds that title in a similar way that Zoro will meaning he beat the old "best swordsman". Shanks is shown to use a sword as his primary weapon and most people aren't going to disqualify a guy for using haki in a sword fight. Their is no way of knowing who is stronger between the two, and that title is hardly evidence that Mihawk is better. It's very possible that Shanks just doesn't want the title, or Mihawk's poor social skills kept him from being an Emperor; either option is just as viable as the other.

Using assumptions to try and refute a fact? Whatever floats your boat. It's still a fact though.

Mihawk IS superior to Shanks when it comes to sword fighting. He wouldn't STILL have the title "Best Swordsman in the World" if it wasn't.

apologized

@The:

Your point is completely moot, because Mihawk actually holds the title of the "Best Swordsman in the World", ergo: He's a better swordsman than Shanks.

Also. I wouldn't be surprised if Mihawk and Shanks are on equal footing when it comes to overall combat prowess; overall meaning swordsmanship (which Mihawk is confirmed better at by title alone), Haki, intelligence etc. They were said to be rivals (or something of the sort) afterall.

not rival but nakama …

NER

The title of the World Strongest Swordman is taken VERY seriously in One Piece, otherwise Zoro wouldn't train his ass off to get it.
therefore I think that Mihawk is a better swordman that Shanks.

but how about this: Mihwak and Shanks were equals, but since Shanks lost his arm, Mihawk became better.

how does that sound to you?

Shadowgreed

@NER:

The title of the World Strongest Swordma is takig VERY seriously in One Piece, otherwise Zoro wouldn't train his ass off to get it.
therefore I think that Mihawk is a better swordman that Shanks.

but how about this: Mihwak and Shanks were equals, but since Shanks lost his arm, Mihawk became better.

how does that sound to you?

That's the only way I see it, I mean they used to fight when Shanks had both of his arm, right but as soon as Shanks lost one arm, Mihawk lost his interest in Shanks that happen 12 years ago, so what we have to find out is for how long Mihawk has been called the Strongest swordman

Jackermeister

@NER:

The title of the World Strongest Swordman is taken VERY seriously in One Piece, otherwise Zoro wouldn't train his ass off to get it.
therefore I think that Mihawk is a better swordman that Shanks.

but how about this: Mihwak and Shanks were equals, but since Shanks lost his arm, Mihawk became better.

how does that sound to you?

IIRC Oda said Shanks didn't become any weaker by losing arm.

Dellinger

Where did he say that? SBS?

but that does make sense considering shanks is heavily haki-based. (atleast thats what my little brain has come up with)

KageKageKing

Maybe Mihawk gave up fighting Shanks cause it was more fun when he used 2 swords.

Densuke

Does anyone else think that the rivalry between those two began by Shanks asking Mihawk to join his crew? I kinda get the feeling that like Yasopp, Shanks also found and asked Mihawk, but was told "I will only join your crew if you can beat me in a sword fight"..

Kevin91

@The:

Using assumptions to try and refute a fact? Whatever floats your boat. It's still a fact though.

Mihawk IS superior to Shanks when it comes to sword fighting. He wouldn't STILL have the title "Best Swordsman in the World" if it wasn't.

All I was saying was it is just as likely that Shanks could beat Mihawk as the other way around. If you want to deal in facts Shanks is one of the emperors, the emperors are the strongest pirates in the world, and Mihawk is not an emperor. As I wrote in my previous post Mihawk probably isn't an emperor do to the lack of a crew and Shanks probably didn't vie for the worlds best swordsman title do to a lack of trying to take that from his friend. i'd say the odds of either winning is roughly 50/50. To your previous pont about haki and inteligence Mihawk has been shown to also have these things, and even if his sword technique is better than Shanks' both primarily use swords, and the victor of said match would be titled the best.

hamad138

Mihawk is no emporer because

he isnt a Pirate
Crewless
No allies

Also mihawk is a kind of bored he dont fight 1 arm weaklings so he just wait for zorro.

Bigivel

@Densuke:

Does anyone else think that the rivalry between those two began by Shanks asking Mihawk to join his crew? I kinda get the feeling that like Yasopp, Shanks also found and asked Mihawk, but was told "I will only join your crew if you can beat me in a sword fight"..

Mihawk watched Gol. D Roger being executed. I believe it was around that time he became a Pirate. Shanks created is pirate crew around the same time too( He asked Buggy to join is new crew, at that day). So I believe the first time(If they didn't knew each other before) they saw each other was already as pirate rivals.

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

@hamad138:

Mihawk is no emporer because

he isnt a Pirate

He is a pirate!

Mihawk is a pirate, because only pirates are shichibukais.

For me the reason he isn't an emperor

He doesn't care. Already have the title he always wanted: Best Swordsmen in the world.
He doesn't care. Sleeping any time of the day is better.
He doesn't care. Shichibukai is a more confortable title than Emperor: Secure the position of best swordsmen and the sleep.

Mihawk don't have a crew, because only him decides when he should wake up. If anyone wakes him from his sleep he can kill that person without remorse: Yes, his looking at you Don Krieg!

DARK_RITUAL

Mihawk isn't an emperor because his crew got wiped out by Kaido or some other pirate but unlike Moria who decided to have Zombies as crewmates instead of human crewmates' Mihawk decided to have no crewmates ever again(just saying not fact), cuz Mihawk is the best swordsman doesn't mean his stronger than every pirate out there, that he can become a yonko if he wants to. Y'all are assuming cuz his best swordsman he suppose to be a yonko? Nope, they're probably non-swordsman pirates out there stronger than him or his equal(someone like Marco, Jozu, Dofla, just my guess).

Densuke

@Bigivel:

Mihawk watched Gol. D Roger being executed. I believe it was around that time he became a Pirate. Shanks created is pirate crew around the same time too. So I believe the first time they saw each other was already as pirate rivals.

That doesn't really mean anything in regards to my theory, though. Whether they knew of each other or not, Mihawk probably already had a reputation at that time for his skills as a swordsmen (kinda like how Luffy heard about Zoro), and Shanks was recruiting people based on that as we saw with Yasopp.

It is just a an idea, and like many of my ideas..it probably won't end up being the case.. but it does seem probable, at least to me..

DARK_RITUAL

Talking about Shanks, Shanks was shown in a small boat starting his crew by trying to recruit Yassop first, so doesn't this mean Yassop is Shanks first nakama? Considering how Oda wanted to make a sniper Luffys first nakama he probably decided to do it on Shanks crew instead.

Katzztar

@DARK_RITUAL:

Talking about Shanks, Shanks was shown in a small boat starting his crew by trying to recruit Yassop first, so doesn't this mean Yassop is Shanks first nakama? Considering how Oda wanted to make a sniper Luffys first nakama he probably decided to do it on Shanks crew instead.

I forgot where I read it, (so that means I can NOT back this up) but I read that the first members of Redhaired Pirates were Yasopp & Benn Beckman and both are from East Blue. We knew East Bleu is wehre Shanks met Yasopp, but its not shown him meeting Benn. But in a early SBS, someone asked who ws the smartest in East Blue and Oda said Benn Beckman. So it could be taken as Benn is from East Blue. ….for being the 'weakest sea', there are some pretty big names come from East Blue.

King Cannon

@Katzztar:

I forgot where I read it, (so that means I can NOT back this up) but I read that the first members of Redhaired Pirates were Yasopp & Benn Beckman and both are from East Blue. We knew East Bleu is wehre Shanks met Yasopp, but its not shown him meeting Benn. But in a early SBS, someone asked who ws the smartest in East Blue and Oda said Benn Beckman. So it could be taken as Benn is from East Blue. ….for being the 'weakest sea', there are some pretty big names come from East Blue.

Oda could have been talking about characters introduced so far in the story, instead of characters that were actually born in East Blue.

It's what the wording implies to me, anyway. From Volume 08:

! D: Who are the "One Piece" characters with the highest and lowest IQ's?! Okay, that's enough for today.
O: I'll tell you. But when I say "in One Piece". I really mean, "of all the characters introduced in One Piece". And having cleared that up, the character with the highest IQ is Shanks' first mate, Benn Beckman. He is a great crewmate, who possesses astonishing wisdom and strength, and advises Shanks. And right after him would probably be Captain Kuro, then Nami, etc. Now as for the lowest IQ… I can't decide the worst one. They're all idiots.

garonne

this made me remember something… when luffy received one of his bounties, one of the villagers said he had the highest bounty from east blue (or was it just from the village?)
Either way, when we found out about ace's bounty it had me a bit puzzled. But then again, even though ace was famous as a kid, when luffy was leaving in the flashback, one of the villagers was asking who is ace.
If he did say east blue, then what about pirates such as ben beckman, and yasopp, and even ace?
If it was the village then what about dragon and ace?
You can say ace wasnt born there so that could be feasible, but what about Dragon? he himself said he was from goa kingdom.
Then again, maybe nobody knew where he was from.

Drake_Cloud

@garonne:

this made me remember something… when luffy received one of his bounties, one of the villagers said he had the highest bounty from east blue (or was it just from the village?)
Either way, when we found out about ace's bounty it had me a bit puzzled. But then again, even though ace was famous as a kid, when luffy was leaving in the flashback, one of the villagers was asking who is ace.
If he did say east blue, then what about pirates such as ben beckman, and yasopp, and even ace?
If it was the village then what about dragon and ace?
You can say ace wasnt born there so that could be feasible, but what about Dragon? he himself said he was from goa kingdom.
Then again, maybe nobody knew where he was from.

That might only refer to people active there. Dragon, Ben Beckman, etc. might have originally been from there, but they likely moved on to the Grand Line before attaining worldwide notoriety. At that point Luffy had only been in the East Blue, and had just beaten the previous highest bounty head there.

Katzztar

@Drake_Cloud:

That might only refer to people active there. Dragon, Ben Beckman, etc. might have originally been from there, but they likely moved on to the Grand Line before attaining worldwide notoriety. At that point Luffy had only been in the East Blue, and had just beaten the previous highest bounty head there.

I agree, it refer to those active in the region, Luffy was being compared to the likes of Buggy, Arlong & Don Kreig - all three were high bounties for East Blue. When Ace got his bounty he was likely already in Grand Line … that and I think most villagers didn't know him by name, he was known with those mountain Bandits

Zephray

I vote spoilers come out today due to the long wait. Who's with me?

Jawad5

@Zephray:

I vote spoilers come out today due to the long wait. Who's with me?

Well, if you can get your hand on them and translate them yourself then suuuure! I'm with you all the way.

peeko

@Zephray:

I vote spoilers come out today due to the long wait. Who's with me?

i dont want spoilers, i want a chapter lol

TonyTheChopper

I need a chapter right now.

Bonney_AP

Kingdomkey

@Zephray:

I vote spoilers come out today due to the long wait. Who's with me?

Hopefully NJA posts them today (early) though it's highly unlikely…

garonne

i want something… even if its a sentence that makes absolutely no sense by itself. just something for a fix, just something

Thatanas

@garonne:

i want something… even if its a sentence that makes absolutely no sense by itself. just something for a fix, just something

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lemt4yQV3U1qcfba3o1_500.gif

One piece is cancelled.