@1PceXperience:
I'm not fond of speculations like this. That means we can never take things as we see them. So, if the Kraken had the will of Luffy or Zoro then he would have been able to had withstand Luffy's elephant gun? Or perhaps, it's not really strength that matters in this series, but will? So, as long as Luffy has the will for it he can be able to handle any character as he is right now? In this case,Usopp could have withstood Luffy during their little fight back at Water 7 had he had a stronger will?
It wasn't even Franky. It was more of a ravenous monster controlling the mind more than it was Franky. And I'd expect a blood thirsty monster to have a hell of a lot of intent.
Like Luffy during the war?
Intent goes a lot further when you're in control of your own body, and faculties.
@1PceXperience:
Okay let me break it down.
1. What Occurred: Chopper was hit by an elephant gun. 2.The Result: he was knocked out.
3. My Conclusion: Based on what I've witnessed it only takes one elephant gun to defeat Chopper. 4.What if Chopper had Blocked it?: That's not really what should be in question. The facts show that Chopper is unable to endure a hit from an elephant. gun. Hody Jones was able to withstand a lot of blows from Luffy which include a Red Hawk.
5.My Point: We can assume that if Luffy is able to get rid of you in one hit, then you're not very high on the SH's ladder. (Which was the only power scale I ever made reference to)
The thing here is that you are looking beyond what has been shown (Chopper being knocked out by one hit), meaning we can't go by what we see alone as fa****ct.
6. Does the state of one's mind effect what's going on: Well if it does.. let's take both Chopper and Hody. Both, when assaulted by Luffy, weren't really in the right state of mind. In fact, both of their mental states (while not identical) were indeed very similar. They were… lunatics to say the most. Yet, Hody was able to withstand more from Luffy then a Monster Reindeer was able to.
1. Wrong -Chopper's body; unknown whose mind.
2. Wrong - He was reduced back to his smaller exhausted form. Something that proven with MChopper is not the only reason he turns back. Not to mention Chopper was shouting rules which Franky ignored 1st chance he got. Who knows how Chopper's regular body works, much less MC.
3. Wrong - you don't actually take into account all you have seen.
4. Wrong -In Chopper's little huge furball/ think it's Guard Point, that helped the ship, more than likely he would have just been punched backwards, not what you perceived.
5. Wrong -You assume, why presume others can do the exact same. Once again Panda Bear's point, with nothing to compare it to, it's still a pretty baseless assumption.
Then you get the fact that Robin, Usopp, Nami,
5b. Brook We semi know what on a human body essentially "knocks them out"; we have no idea what really knocks out just a skull.
6. Wrong. you concluded yourself their states of mind were the same. or similar. We don't really know Chopper's/ Franky, except that he didn't recognize friends, and attacked all approaching, but for some reason seemed somewhat fixated on Luffy. Hody had been living with his irrational hate, + irrational view of his absolute superiority over all humans most of his life. He was still able to pronounce words/ sentences think thru certain better ways to attack and defend so still quite a bit not out of his mind; just more so 'deluded'.
Seriously are you just doing this for fun?
@King:
He was lying.
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[qimg]http://i33.mangapanda.com/one-piece/429/one-piece-63372.jpg[/qimg]
Actually just proves he was lying "then". About Ao Kiji telling the Marines to further pursue the SH's, not necessarily about the buster call which had already passed, I think from that scene. Not necessarily the whole time. I'm pretty sure also Ao Kiji said it himself when he was talking to Robin after all this.
@1PceXperience:
leer este~
Well, I think Hody is a great example of Can someone withstand a High physical attack head on (no blocking involved) Hody took the Red Hawk head on. I'm going to assume, that the Red Hawk is one of Luffy's more deadlier attacks.
Now if Hody is able to take on a Red Hawk, then I'm sure Zoro, Jinbei and Sanji (hell, maybe even Franky) would have been able to take on a red Hawk (unarmed and head on) as well. So that fact there proves that even the deadliest of Luffy's attacks can be withstood head on by those strong enough to endure. We can use this as a scale.
Scale of Endurance and How it proves that Chopper is a low Tier in the SH ladder
So 1. while Hody can take on one of Luffy's deadly attacks and still continue on…
and 2. we know that Zoro, Sanji, and Jinbei are stronger than Hody….
and 3. Unlike Hody, Chopper was unable to withstand just one hit of Luffy's deadly attack.
4. this suggest that Chopper doesn't meet the level of Zoro, Sanji, and Jinbei (perhaps even Franky); thus, he is weaker on the SH ladder.
Now you realize Hody is probably really the worst example you could give. Hody had taken tons and tons of drugs/ pills. He shivered from Luffy's CoC, when we didn't see the same from any of the SH's. Not the point though. On a couple of Luffy's 1st hits, Hody, was out for a couple of minutes, each time. We're talking pure Gear 2znd, and maybe haki once, or twice, (I forget), no need even for gear 3rd. Then after at least 1 of these Hody is scrambling trying to get even more drugs like he did with Zoro's cut. Even if we for some reason don't count all that; then we still get the fact that it really was drugs and hate/ rage, determination that kept Hody conscious and coming back all these times. Oda dropped enough hints of that to be just short of screaming it to his readers.
So #1-4 wrong/ canceled on the basis of a false premise in the 1st place. Just like above.
@1PceXperience:
The conscious mind doesn't equate to physical endurance.
IF Ray Lewis was the consciousness in your current body, and Mike Tyson punched you in the face.. would you suggest that Lewis' consciousness overules your physical ability to endure such a punch?
Also, had consciousness truly dictated physical prowess then Nami would not have stated that "It's a good thing I was in this [Franky's] body or else I wouldn't have had been able to withstand such a hit. "
Finally, a "dumb beast" destroyed his opponent in Enneis Lobby. Intelligence is not a necessity in fighting
usted no sabe~
It depends not just on the body, or the mind, but the combination of both; that's the point. Franky's partly metal body, not really applying as some people would just hurt themselves from hitting him in the 1st place. And Franky's body literally being built better than Nami's body(IN TOUGHNESS ONLY; LET'S make that clear) :ninja::ninja::ninja: might have quite a bit more to do with that. So the Nami example is kind of a moot point. And cannot be used as proof as it will only complicate the issue more. Which more and more it seems like you want to do?..
Then there's the difference between taking a hit, and being the 1 hitting.
Intelligence is not a necessity, but it can help as well. Just in shifting your body to take a hit at a slightly different place. Since you used EL as an example; there is the example of Sanji not taking Jabra's strike on both hands, but just 1, and not in the head, but the gut area. You can bet that made a huge difference.
But beginning to doubt if you're being serious now, unless you're really young?
@1PceXperience:
I understand that; however, whether or not Chopper was able to block or evade doesn't step away from the fact that he can still get taken out by just one Elephant gun.
We can all evade and hide behind stuff to avoid getting shot in the head by a bullet; however, all of our attempts to evade a bullet to the head does not mean that a gun cannot kill us.
That is the point I'm making. An elephant gun can knockout Chopper as a bullet to the head can kill us.
Funny that you miss your own supposed point. Otherwise no wonder people think Zoro is stronger than Luffy. According to your logic Zolo is everlastingly automatically better than Luffy since 1 slice of Luffy's head + he's dead/ defeated.
Here's another example to prove you wrong. That female at WP that tried to crush Zoro's skull, was defeated by Zolo, If Gear third with haki Luffy was doing that to a Zoro post TS, without a sword, even with just 2 fingers, I see no way he breaks Luffy's hold the same way he did then, (unless his haki armor is just beyond our wildest possibilities), other wise Luffy just crushes his brain skull to death. Now does that make Zoro weaker in your eyes equal to your example?…
Didn't think so.
Are you just doing this to 'liven up this discussion'?
Cause I'd rather not waste my time if that's the case.