[Theory] The Inherited Will, "One Piece"

Kirk

if the red line is made by someone, it would be the ones residing on it. the tenryuubito. no one ever climbed the red line, thats why fisher tiger became a legend. (and fisher tiger havent really climbed it, he became a slave reason why he raided marijoies.)

Fisher Tiger climbed Red Line with his hands, that's why he is legendary. But everyone can go to Mariejoa as long as you are not a pirate. Even Shichibukais go there, we just don't know how. Same goes for citizens and traders.

@beck26:

if you look at it, there's really no freedom in one piece world, everything is controlled by the red line and the separation it creates.

Heh, Luffy's village is quite peacefull and they are free. What about Water Seven's citizens? As long as you dont become a pirate, you are fine, lets not be paranoid.

beck26

@Kirk:

Fisher Tiger climbed Red Line with his hands, that's why he is legendary. But everyone can go to Mariejoa as long as you are not a pirate. Even Shichibukais go there, we just don't know how. Same goes for citizens and traders.

he havent really climbed it…he was a slave for the tenryuubito, thats the reason why he got into marijoies....

and shichibukais are government dogs...

Heh, Luffy's village is quite peacefull and they are free. What about Water Seven's citizens? As long as you dont become a pirate, you are fine, lets not be paranoid.

yeah, if thats how you look at it…what im saying is it separates the 4 seas and prevents the unity of nations...thats what i meant by lack of freedom and no one can fight the world government...let's not be pessimistic, and calm down.

DarkFalcon

Very interesting theory. One of the most sound theories regarding One Piece I've read so far. I have some thought about it.

as we know, in our real world there existed massive projects affecting environment on big scale - building channels connecting oceans (in Panama and Egypt), building dams and redirecting rivers - all on purpose of prosperity or trade. Since in one Piece world everything is over the top engaging in such a big project changing whole world doesn't seem that much outrageous.
Apparently there is something in the history and the ideas of Ancient Kingdom (or how the old generation understood it), that may lead to all out global war. I seriously doubt, this kind of project could make people turn to violence on global scale. Only possible issues people may have with this is safety of the project or some issues related to religions, that could pose problems, but only on local scale. If creators of World Government, knew about this plan, they would preserved technology, so that they could conduct the project on their own - that way they could make more money from trade and likely gain more control - Grant Line and belts are an inconvenience to them too (or at least was before Vegepunk).
Rayleigh apparently feels (or hopes), they haven't actually understood correctly the ideas and history of the ancient Kingdom, and that somebody may come to different (more satisfying resolve). This makes me doubt, that they find the idea of creating united see in the ancient text. I think what they found had to be much more disturbing.
Peoples lives are not depending only on environmental (global) conditions they live in. Social structures and awareness play great part. Unifying the seas won't automatically create welfare and liberties for people and downfall of oppressing WG (the last one is most likely though). It may start a chain of event, that eventually would, but since the story seems to be placed on end of such a chain of events and at braking point, I doubt that's what will see.
That leads me to believe that the truth about Ancient Kingdom, that WG is so afraid of, are some ideas regarding society rather than environmental project on global scale. Although whatever the plans of Ancient Kingdom were that king of project may have been included.

Ashura_KingFisher

anyway, I want to add a bit more theory, about the AK.

The AK, did they really extinct from history?

In Robin’s flashback

!

Clover was about to reveal the kingdom’s name when he was shot by Spandine.

you know, It always seems a bit odd to me that gorosei felt threaten by revelation of the name alone. But it could means one thing : the kingdom is actually still exist until now. Gorosei are awared that people could recognize the name. Or even us readers could recognize it for that matter.

if the later was true, it means the kingdom name was mentioned somewhere before the W7 arc… let’s see, we have Arabasta, Drum, Shandora, and probably Raftel (it could be a kingdom’s name)

Beetwen the four, which one of them could be the AK? Apparently, a few facts about Shandoroa match the description of AK the most.

Shandora was collapsed 800 years ago after a big war with certain enemy (the AK was collapsed at that time as well)
Judging by the ancient picture of Bilca on the moon, the origin of Shandora, they apparently had an advanced-civilization with all that futuristic stuff (just like how Clover pictured the AK)
Shandora was once a prosperous kingdom 1000 years ago (the fact was written on one of the ancient texts in skypiea, I forgot what chapter though)

In additon, out of all poneglyph that Robin has found so far, only the shandorian poneglyph has Roger’s note on it. Despite its place which was so out of reach compared to other poneglyphs, Roger decided to leave his massage there. It must be special right?

What I’m trying to say is, the AK could be none other than Shandora kingdom.

okay, this one is a bit farfetched but you can at least see the connection there. need more clue on this one…

beck26

@DarkFalcon:

That leads me to believe that the truth about Ancient Kingdom, that WG is so afraid of, are some ideas regarding society rather than environmental project on global scale. Although whatever the plans of Ancient Kingdom were that king of project may have been included.

agreed. it is obviously more than weather conditions and whatnots, though these things (calm belt, red line etc) is being used by the WG to their advantage.

but i do agree the things they avoid to be known by other people is more disturbing than environmental aspects.

Noqanky

I'm with darkfalcon. While I like the theory of destroying the red line and the way that would connect goals, I simply don't see something like "project One Piece" being so monumental that the WG, gorousei, and marine leaders actively hide it because mere word of it would lead the entire globe into epic chaos and war. That's their reason for keeping the void century hidden after all.

I think the enemy of the AK (ancient kingdom which I think was called Raftel) was far more sinister and must have done something rotten enough to win that would antagonize the world. And I'm pretty sure it might have to do with the sort of social structure it led to with the tennryubito being on top of everyone.

Also, I am sure at some point in all of this there will also be a connection to Devil Fruits, and that one will be discovered by Vegapunk, or at the least his inherited will.

Edit: also, in terms of endgame, I feel it will be most like the way Serenity was endgame to Firefly:

! the pirates being embroiled in a political war because of one special, female crewmember, and then they discover a massive lie that they use to expose and destroy said government.

beck26

@Ashura_KingFisher:

anyway, I want to add a bit more theory, about the AK.

The AK, did they really extinct from history?

In Robin’s flashback

!

!

Clover was about to reveal the kingdom’s name when he was shot by Spandine.

you know, It always seems a bit odd to me that gorosei felt threaten by revelation of the name alone. But it could means one thing : the kingdom is actually still exist until now. Gorosei are awared that people could recognize the name. Or even us readers could recognize it for that matter.

if the later was true, it means the kingdom name was mentioned somewhere before the W7 arc… let’s see, we have Arabasta, Drum, Shandora, and probably Raftel (it could be a kingdom’s name)

Beetwen the four, which one of them could be the AK? Apparently, a few facts about Shandoroa match the description of AK the most.

Shandora was collapsed 800 years ago after a big war with certain enemy (the AK was collapsed at that time as well)

Judging by the ancient picture of Bilca on the moon, the origin of Shandora, they apparently had an advanced-civilization with all that futuristic stuff (just like how Clover pictured the AK)

Shandora was once a prosperous kingdom 1000 years ago (the fact was written on one of the ancient texts in skypiea, I forgot what chapter though)

In additon, out of all poneglyph that Robin has found so far, only the shandorian poneglyph has Roger’s note on it. Despite its place which was so out of reach compared to other poneglyphs, Roger decided to leave his massage there. It must be special right?

What I’m trying to say is, the AK could be none other than Shandora kingdom.

okay, this one is a bit farfetched but you can at least see the connection there. need more clue on this one…

there had also been theories that luffy who is a D got an skypiean descent. we can connect it to that. so if thats the case, joyboy is a shandian.

so joyboy actually owns the uranus? (sky reference for a skypiean) and was supposed to save poseidon (sea reference)

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

EDIT: poseidon is located underwater, uranus is located in skypiea and pluton is located in alabasta (or raftel)

Kirk

@beck26:

there had also been theories that luffy who is a D got an skypiean descent. we can connect it to that. so if thats the case, joyboy is a shandian.

so joyboy actually owns the uranus? (sky reference for a skypiean) and was supposed to save poseidon (sea reference)

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

EDIT: poseidon is located underwater, uranus is located in skypiea and pluton is located in alabasta (or raftel)

wow wow woooow slow the fuck down.

And there come the half moon theory again.

beck26

just brainstorming….abandon the thread then. laters!

Foxy The Silver Fox

@Kirk:

wow wow woooow slow the fuck down.

And there come the half moon theory again.

[qimg]http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m257/empath69/abandon-thread-spacejump.gif[/qimg]

I don't know why you doubt the half-moon theory so much, especially with all of the evidence pointing towards it being true.

beck26

@Noqanky:

Edit: also, in terms of endgame, I feel it will be most like the way Serenity was endgame to Firefly:
the pirates being embroiled in a political war because of one special, female crewmember, and then they discover a massive lie that they use to expose and destroy said government.

nico robin perhaps?

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

@Foxy:

I don't know why you doubt the half-moon theory so much, especially with all of the evidence pointing towards it being true.

he's abandoning the thread so just let him. LOL. as if this whole thread will crumble down if he leaves it.

Kirk

@beck26:

he's abandoning the thread so just let him. LOL. as if this whole thread will crumble down if he leaves it.

This thread was good until you came with your nonsense. Fisher tiger didnt climb Red Line? No one can go to mariejoa? Joy boy is a shandian and owns Uranus? What kind of bullshit is that? There is a thread for these stuff.

beck26

im giving out ideas, you didnt have to take it seriously since ALL of this thread is speculations.

and you think this thread is good? since your first post all i saw was complains. GTFOH.

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

EDIT: read fisher tiger's flashback again. he didnt climb the red line. YDKSAOP.

Kirk

Implying you can't enjoy a thread if you aren't agreeing with the theory? Are you like 12?

Noqanky

@beck26:

nico robin perhaps?

Haha, yes, I was hinting at that, Robin = River

I really do find the similarities between One Piece and Firefly to be astoundingly specific. May create a thread about that sometime.

beck26

@Kirk:

Implying you can't enjoy a thread if you aren't agreeing with the theory? Are you like 12?

heh. get real. youre shotting down this theory since your first post. and stop getting mad over the internet…are you like 7?

--- Update From New Post Merge ---

there's constructive criticism and its not what youre doing.

Kirk

@beck26:

EDIT: read fisher tiger's flashback again. he didnt climb the red line. YDKSAOP.

http://www.mangareader.net/one-piece/622/2

He purposely came back to Mariejoa to save the slaves.

beck26

@Kirk:

http://www.mangareader.net/one-piece/622/2

He purposely came back to Mariejoa to save the slaves.

jesus christ….

http://www.mangareader.net/one-piece/623/15

http://www.mangareader.net/one-piece/623/16

sure, gedatsu.

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

EDIT: or maybe he climbed the red line because his tenryuubito mastered ordered him, who knows.

Kirk

Geez, Fisher Tiger was a slave, yea. He fled from Mariejoa, went to see Otohime and Neptune and then came back to Mariejoa to save the slaves.

beck26

….......spent years as slave, had the chance to escape...came back to FI and said he came from a long journey....

the link you posted in ch. 622 is before he formed the sun pirates.

the link ive psoted in ch. 623 is after the sun pirates was formed, he was ambushed and was supposed to be treated. then he revealed the real past events...his legend about scaling the red line is in fact him being just a slave for years.

keep trying, gedatsu.

Ashura_KingFisher

oh, c'mon… please don't turn this thread into another hatred fest. I've had enough of that...

Gedatsu finding Pluton just sounds as random as Joy Boy being a Shandian, but honestly there's no single fact against both theories right? they may sound ridiculous, yet not impossible at all. Back then, there's someone on mangahelpers who has predicted that Shirahoshi is an ancient weapon. The majority thought his idea was ridiculous but look who's laughing now.

you see, there's always a chance for the most random idea in One Piece... so please people, show some respect to others opinion.

beck26

well, i try and analyze your theory, and i enjoy exchanging ideas in this kind of thread…someone said he's abandoning the thread though.

--- Update From New Post Merge ---

EDIT: still waiting.

--- Update From New Post Merge ---

@Ashura_KingFisher:

you see, there's always a chance for the most random idea in One Piece… so please people, show some respect to others opinion.

exactly. 16 characters of gedatsu.

Kirk

@beck26:

the link you posted in ch. 622 is before he formed the sun pirates.

the link ive psoted in ch. 623 is after the sun pirates was formed, he was ambushed and was supposed to be treated. then he revealed the real past events…his legend about scaling the red line is in fact him being just a slave for years.

keep trying, gedatsu.

Are you for real? See the link I posted:
http://www.mangareader.net/one-piece/622/2 It is indeed before the Sun pirates. He just fled from Mariejoa and he is about to return into Mariejoa for the purpose to save the slaves. "I have made my decision" means "I'm going to Mariejoa".

beck26

…...honestly bro, are you just sh*ttin me? LOL

Kirk

I never do this but this is a serious case:

http://onepiece.wikia.com/wiki/Fisher_Tiger#cite_note-Slavery-2
"While he returned to Fishman Island from what seemed to be a long voyage, the truth was that he was captured by the World Nobles and became a slave for years at Mariejois. During Tiger's life as a slave, he suffered a lot of abuse and gruelish torture from his masters. He barely escaped, but seeing all the slaves left behind, he could not bear it and decided to return to free them."
"Thus, he committed a taboo against the world by climbing up the cliffs of the Red Line with his bare hands to Mariejois and attacked the holy land to free the fishmen slaves from the World Nobles"

RomanceDawn

This was certainly an interesting theory and something to keep in mind as the years pass on.

I'm with Kirk in that I'm trying to imagine why the WG would want to hide the knowledge that the AK wanted to unite the oceans, or as the WG would definitely put it, destroy the Red Line. Not just hide it, but hide it so fiercely.

I could certainly see the case being that the Red Line it's self at reverse mountain gives off unstable magnetic fields that completely mess up the weather of the entire Grand Line. I suppose the 20 kingdoms that formed the WG were extremely conservative and did not want their way of life to be changed even if it was the for the benefit of the world. So destroying the mountain would not be in their interest at all.

If this is the case then of course there very much is more to it and I suspect something more evil was involved that requires the WG to keep this such a secret. Still for the actual inhabitants of the One Piece world it's self, real world weather patterns throughout the world and no calm belt would be the most life changing thing ever.

Oh and Tiger climbed the Red Line with certainty. He was a slave and came back with a vengeance.

beck26

one piece wikia….

he came back for the slaves, its not he went down the red line and climbed up again to free the slaves...

i tell you, one piece wikia...

RomanceDawn

@beck26:

one piece wikia….

he came back for the slaves, its not he went down the red line and climbed up again to free the slaves...

i tell you, one piece wikia...

One Piece wikia can be pleasantly reliable or a complete joke. This time it doesn't tell the whole story.

Fisher Tiger escaped and told Neptune and Otohime that he was planning to free the slaves.

beck26

upon the return of fisher tiger (before he spoke to neptune) he already freed the slaves (reason why people in the street are calling him a legend)

the decision he is pertaining to was to form the sun pirates and erase the marks of the slaves. and of course to fight the WG.

ArmamentHero

Will of D could be related to AK like a lot has said. Its also speculated that it was AK who created Devil Fruits or something that produces them. I'll nickname this Country "Akuma no Kuni" just because and I really like this theory.

beck26

EDIT: did fisher tiger specifically mentioned he scaled the red line to come back for the slaves or he just said he came back for the slaves after he escaped? coz thats two different things.

the scaling the red line thingy, its always other people who said it, not fisher tiger, IIRC.

Kirk

Did you even read the link I posted?
http://www.mangareader.net/one-piece/622/2
http://www.batoto.net/read/_/94896/one-piece_v63_ch622_by_mangarule/5

"You mean to free the slaves?!" 'He actually went and did it" " I have made my decision"

Densuke

This post is deleted!

beck26

"You mean to free the slaves?!" 'He actually went and did it" –--- ooooooh, my bad. you win.

Kirk

This post is deleted!

beck26

just read your given link intently…..

and no bro,...neptune's reaction was like that because he never knew about fisher tiger being just a slave, the news neptune knew is "fisher tiger came back for the slaves and climbed the red line, what an incredible feat!!!"

but notice otohime crying. her strong observation haki saw the true feelings of fisher tiger.

and never did fisher tiger said he scaled the red line...what he confessed before he died was "he was a slave and when he escaped, he cant bear to leave the other slaves behind so he came for them"

no climbing red line whatsoever.

so here's to you my friend.

Kirk

You aren't understanding that panel. When Neptune says "you mean to free the slaves?" it happened before the panel where he says "he actually went and did it". Its a flashback within a flashback.

Then he is talking about these slaves that he wants to save: "even now as we stand they are suffering torments no person should ever face".
And then " I have made my decision", he is about to save them.

beck26

so the uppermost panel on that same page where people praise him for supposedly scaling the red line is a fast forward to the flash back?

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

we're going on for pages now. you win. this is a great thread to be arguing something so obvious.

Robby

While Reverse Mountain is almost certainly where the end of the main journey is, I don't really agree with the "blow up massive chunks of land" bit.

Particularly considering one of the three ancient weapons was a mermaid that could command sea kings.

TheCrystalShip

@RobbyBevard:

While Reverse Mountain is almost certainly where the end of the main journey is, I don't really agree with the "blow up massive chunks of land" bit.

Particularly considering one of the three ancient weapons was a mermaid that could command sea kings.

What if it's destroyed by a whale? :ninja:

Robby

Yes, because Laboon bashing his head against the rock wall for forty years has made such a difference so far.

As for Fisher Tiger… Oda told that part of the story VERY oddly for him, completely out of sequence and with flashbacks and flashforwards within flashbacks, one panel asides, jumping all over the place, fast recapping 20 years of history in one chapter, then highlighting a little bit more of that in the next chapter, then going backwards again, with Tiger arriving in town without fanfare and then with fanfare, and not showing the actual event in any detail at all, and then all mixed in with legend and heresay. (And bad translations did not help... but even those fluent in japanese and proper translations didn't help much.)

Was a slave, but not at marijoa. Escaped. Went to Neptune (in secret) to get an army and was denied. Went to Marijoa and climbed the red line and freed slaves. Came back to FI publically. He didn't talk baout what he had done. And then word followed, he got a bounty, and then the hgih class fishmen (Arlong, Jinbe, Hachi, etc.) quit their normal lives to join him as pirates, and the fishmen pirates were born.

Its either by far the sloppiest bit of writing Oda's ever done, or he did it intentionally to confuse the issue just a bit. (either way its sloppytho) You can debate if he actually climbed the red line or if thats just a myth that grew from no one knowing he was a slave, but...
-Fisher Tiger was a slave
-he did free the slaves
-he talked to Neptune about going to do it at some point

That he planned to do it and asked Neptune for help means he did not happen to be captured and then free others, there were actually two different jailbreaks, one for him alone, then a bigger one where he freed everyone, and that's where the confusion sets in.

There's no doubt about those three things, but the timing, exact order, and full extent of what he actually did are all blurry... and that's just down to the awful way Oda presented that entire set of chapters.

beck26

sigh

! this is when he arrived back at FI (after he freed the slaves)…he meets arlong and jinbe but said he need to go to ryuguu palace. the news of him scaling the red line was already out.
! http://www.mangareader.net/one-piece/621/14
! next chapter he was in the palace, to greet the royal family. and neptune inquiring about his deed of "supposedly" climbing the red line.
! http://www.mangareader.net/one-piece/622/2
! neptune heard about the news, but otohime knew what really happened.
! http://www.mangareader.net/one-piece/622/3
! and this was his decision:
! the flashback how sun pirates were formed
! http://www.mangareader.net/one-piece/621/15
! http://www.mangareader.net/one-piece/621/16
! and the sun pirates in current time (in jinbe's flashback)
! http://www.mangareader.net/one-piece/622/6

so where did fishman tiger said he scaled the red line????

this will be my last reply to this argument: i think i made it clear enough for you to comprehend.

EDIT: if it still doesnt convince you, watch the anime version. its more organized there.

@RobbyBevard:

Yes, because Laboon bashing his head against the rock wall for forty years has made such a difference so far.

IIRC, even dorry and broggy made "figurative" comments about red line being indestructible.

TheCrystalShip

@robbybevard:

yes, because laboon bashing his head against the rock wall for forty years has made such a difference so far.

A whale's dream will never die.

Jackermeister

@beck26:

so where did fishman tiger said he scaled the red line????

!
Just admit you are wrong.

beck26

@Jackermeister:

!
Just admit you are wrong.

cant see the link…

Jackermeister

@beck26:

cant see the link…

Because it's MangaReader? Try now.

beck26

@Jackermeister:

Because it's MangaReader? Try now.

where did fisher tiger said he scaled the red line there? boa hancock didnt even know fisher tiger was a slave…the only person who knew of fisher tiger being a slave were the sun pirates and otohime (and eventually nami and co.)

Robby

@beck26:

so where did fishman tiger said he scaled the red line????

Hancock said it on Amazon Lily.

It was the first thing we ever heard of Fisher Tiger, that he had scaled the Red Line. So it got pretty ingrained. It's part of his legend.

But it's also part of his legend that he was killed by humans, so…

How much truth there is to that legend, we as an audience don't know.

Jackermeister

@beck26:

where did fisher tiger said he scaled the red line there? boa hancock didnt even know fisher tiger was a slave…the only person who knew of fisher tiger being a slave were the sun pirates and otohime (and eventually nami and co.)

So it's not true because Fisher Tiger himself didn't say it? Sigh…

Jewelery Bonney

Love this theory, really got me thinking of everything, it seems crazy with all these theories going on that Oda could have (and most likely does) have something completely different up his sleeve for the ending.