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Chapter 617: "The Shocking Incident at Coral Hill" Discussion
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Well we know that Brook is weaker than Zoro so if Brook fights the merman swordman and wins then he was not worth Zoros time now is he?
This arc is to show that each member has gotten stronger and we have not seen if Brooks swordman skills have gotten better yet and that would be a good fight to show them if they have improved.
hmm I have a feeling brooks new stuff isn't going to be purely sword based but thats just a hunch I have.
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hmm I have a feeling brooks new stuff isn't going to be purely sword based but thats just a hunch I have.
Well, at the end of his last concert at Shabondy, Brooke did say his music was "stronger". And we've seen his lullaby move. So I am excited in seeing how he'll incorporate his music to his swordsmanship
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Brook = Scratchmen Apoo
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I say Brook will fight Hyozou, Zoro will fight Hordi, Sanji will fight Decken and Luffy will fight Caribou so we can see his haki agaisnt a logia
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I say Brook will fight Hyozou, Zoro will fight Hordi, Sanji will fight Decken and Luffy will fight Caribou so we can see his haki agaisnt a logia
Brook vs. Hyouzou: would love it.
Zoro vs. Hodi: can see it happening. would be pretty cool I guess.
Sanji vs. Decken: I actually think Franky or Usopp would be a better choice.
Luffy vs. Caribou: could be. but I can see Sanji fighting him. Would prefer that, actually.Now about Luffy. I honestly don't have a clue who he's gonna fight…
Either he'll take over the fight from Zoro, but then Zoro would have to fight Hyouzou, and that would make Brook useless once again.
Maybe Luffy'll fight Decken.OR we haven't seen all the major enemys for this arc yet =D
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Luffy V.S Hodi has been foreshadowed since that message about how Luffy shouldn't fight Hodi. So trust me, some thing will cause Zoro V.S Hodi to stop, whether the air runs out or swordsman or some other person gets in the way to fight him. Luffy V.S Decken should happen, do you honestly think Luffy will sit back after finding out what he did to Hachi? If any thing, it will be Sanji V.S Caribou and possibly Zoro V.S Hyouzou, don't know who Brook would fight but I'm sure they'll find some one for the guy. Heck I don't know who Robin/Franky will fight either.
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Anyone else hoping Brooke will eventualy ditch the goofy sunglasses and go back to his top hat and tea ?
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The upcoming Zoro vs. Hodi is very unlikely to be Hodi's main fight IMO. It'll probably just be that Zoro holds him off to allow for the others to get away, and then Zoro himself escapes or someone (Fukaboshi? Would make for some nice Hodi hype if he beats the strongest of the princes) or something interferes. Later, Zoro takes Hyouzou - I know it would be nice to see Brooke get a real fight, but the guy was called strong by Luffy and is the long-since foreshadowed #1 swordsman of Fishman Island; it's very unlikely that he won't fight Zoro - while Luffy fights Hodi in the real arc boss fight. All assuming that Hodi's the main villain, of course, but he's starting to feel more "legit" now, at least to me.
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The Strawhat crew has yet to get "angry/serious" because they really dont have a reason to yet so Hodi will most likely destroy Zoro or like you said something will interupt the fight.
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None of these guys seem to be on Luffy's level.
Maybe he will end up fighting Jinbe for some reason.. like Jinbe made an oath to the Fishmen pirates and can't break it because of his code of honor. Then you can have Ussop/Dekken. And Zoro/Hodi and Sanji/Hyozo could be fun to change it up a bit. -
Luffy won't fight anyone, he will see everybody going crazy like in MarineFord (I know, he was already out by then) so he will destroy the island for it to stop :-p
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The upcoming Zoro vs. Hodi is very unlikely to be Hodi's main fight IMO. It'll probably just be that Zoro holds him off to allow for the others to get away, and then Zoro himself escapes or someone (Fukaboshi? Would make for some nice Hodi hype if he beats the strongest of the princes) or something interferes. Later, Zoro takes Hyouzou - I know it would be nice to see Brooke get a real fight, but the guy was called strong by Luffy and is the long-since foreshadowed #1 swordsman of Fishman Island; it's very unlikely that he won't fight Zoro - while Luffy fights Hodi in the real arc boss fight. All assuming that Hodi's the main villain, of course, but he's starting to feel more "legit" now, at least to me.
Yeah Hodi is a bad guy :sad:
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I wouldn't actually mind Brook fightning Hyouzou even though I think it won't happen, I wanted to see Brook and Franky get a fight with someone strong since they are the newer guys in the crew, I want Oda to highlight them a little more.
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I'm hoping for a music based opponent for him , instead of swordmasters.
Those should remain Zoro's teritory.
But since this is FI, maybe we could see a Siren from greek mythology.
Perhaps the Lorelei. -
ya you guys are prolly right…
Luffy vs. Hodi
Zoro vs. Hyouzou
Sanji vs. Caribou
Usopp/Franky vs. Decken
Is what I think for now.Now let's just pray that Chopper, Robin, Franky and Brook will also get a worthy enemy to fight.
Anyone else hoping Brooke will eventualy ditch the goofy sunglasses and go back to his top hat and tea ?
No.
Though I do hope that he changes clothes sometimes. (including the glasses) -
I wouldn't actually mind Brook fightning Hyouzou even though I think it won't happen, I wanted to see Brook and Franky get a fight with someone strong since they are the newer guys in the crew, I want Oda to highlight them a little more.
Well, it doesn't look like Franky/Robin/Brook will get to do much this arc, maybe maybe couple of people they'll fight but not one on one fights like the others will get.
Franky/Usopp V.S Decken? Usopp maybe but I don't know about Franky. I still say Luffy will fight against Decken some how, he won't sit back and doing nothing when he hears Hachi was hurt by the guy, that's not his style
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I wonder who will fight wadatsumi
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Shirahoshi … :ninja:
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Franky/Usopp V.S Decken? Usopp maybe but I don't know about Franky. I still say Luffy will fight against Decken some how, he won't sit back and doing nothing when he hears Hachi was hurt by the guy, that's not his style
oh cmon!
how cool would that be?
Franky showing us his new Cyborg powers while fighting a guy that can target him with anything!
Then Franky could send Tracking Rockets after Decken and then Decken would know how it feels to get chased xD
(yes, REAL tracking rockets this time!)But yes you're right about Luffy going to get pissed with him….
Perhaps Luffy will beat both Hodi and Decken...Ooh! I just got another cool idea!
What if Usopp would fight the Umibozou?
That would be a cool fight, and it would show us just how strong Usopp has gotten! -
ya you guys are prolly right…
Luffy vs. Hodi
Zoro vs. Hyouzou
Sanji vs. Caribou
Usopp/Franky vs. Decken
Is what I think for now.Now let's just pray that Chopper, Robin, Franky and Brook will also get a worthy enemy to fight.
No.
Though I do hope that he changes clothes sometimes. (including the glasses)The question isn't whether Sanji will fight Caribou but rather whether Sanji is even capable of fighting him. Iva never showed any haki 2 years ago so it's doubtful Sanji can even lay a hand on Caribou.
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Heat dries up mud.
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Heat dries up mud.
this.
I've read this theory quite a few times and I actually agree to it.
Even though Sanji could be pissed with Decken for chasing after the mermaid princess, Luffy is responsible for her right now, so it would make more sense for him to fight Decken.
And Caribou is the one that kidnapped a few mermaids, which Sanji just took the blame for. -
this.
I've read this theory quite a few times and I actually agree to it.
Even though Sanji could be pissed with Decken for chasing after the mermaid princess, Luffy is responsible for her right now, so it would make more sense for him to fight Decken.
And Caribou is the one that kidnapped a few mermaids, which Sanji just took the blame for.Never heard of heat doing anything to swamps but if you want to grasp at straws that's fine. I think i'll stick with the solid theory of luffy being the only one capable of hurting Caribou with haki, especially since it would bring haki to the attention of the rest of the crew.
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Never heard of heat doing anything to swamps but if you want to grasp at straws that's fine. I think i'll stick with the solid theory of luffy being the only one capable of hurting Caribou with haki, especially since it would bring haki to the attention of the rest of the crew.
agreed with at least the first. Heat has as much effect on a swamp than it has on normal water
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It would kind of make more sense for Sanji to have Haki now than to have to learn it from scratch though, considering how long it took Luffy to just get down the basics and he was like a super-quick learner. Do we really want Sanji, one of the Pacifista-one-shotting "monsters", not to be able to fight even the most weakshit Logia users for another year or so? Maybe he didn't learn it from Iva, but there's always the theory of DJ utilizing CoA to protect his leg from the heat. Personally I would love it if Sanji had discovered CoA on his own somehow, but calls it "Love Armor" or w/e.
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It would kind of make more sense for Sanji to have Haki now than to have to learn it from scratch though, considering how long it took Luffy to just get down the basics and he was like a super-quick learner. Do we really want Sanji, one of the Pacifista-one-shotting "monsters", not to be able to fight even the most weakshit Logia users for another year or so? Maybe he didn't learn it from Iva, but there's always the theory of DJ utilizing CoA to protect his leg from the heat. Personally I would love it if Sanji had discovered CoA on his own somehow, but calls it "Love Armor" or w/e.
That my friend is wishful thinking.
agreed with at least the first. Heat has as much effect on a swamp than it has on normal water
Swamps are "bottomless" not much heat can do to them, freezing them might be an option though. Diable jambe wouldn't work on a water man or an earth man so i don't see why it'd work on an inifinite swamp man.
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The last part? Yeah, probably. But I really do think it makes more sense for Sanji to have at least Armament Haki than for him to have to learn it entirely from scratch, given the amount of time it apparently takes to learn it. Besides the how, which we can't know at the moment but I feel like there are a few decent possibilities, any specific reason you disagree?
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It would kind of make more sense for Sanji to have Haki now than to have to learn it from scratch though, considering how long it took Luffy to just get down the basics and he was like a super-quick learner. Do we really want Sanji, one of the Pacifista-one-shotting "monsters", not to be able to fight even the most weakshit Logia users for another year or so? Maybe he didn't learn it from Iva, but there's always the theory of DJ utilizing CoA to protect his leg from the heat. Personally I would love it if Sanji had discovered CoA on his own somehow, but calls it "Love Armor" or w/e.
Its not about what we want, ITS ABOUT WHATS FAIR!
sorry :P had to do that
anyways, I
m not excluding that fact that Sanji could have Haki, although I
m not sure Id really want him to. At least he shouldn
t be very good at it. It feels a bit cheated that Luffy trains under a Haki expert to learn it and Sanji can just master it aswell. I mean, Iva the one person you`d expect to teach him hasn't shown any mastery of Haki, at least I can't remember him/her doing so. -
Luffy learnt all three types though, remember? And it took him 1 1/2 years. If Sanji learns Armament Haki only in 2 years… I really can't bring myself to think of that as terribly unfair, even if he wasn't specifically training for it. He is a fellow "monster", after all, and honestly hitting Logia users feels like a pretty essential quality for one of the crew's top three fighters.
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Luffy learnt all three types though, remember? And it took him 1 1/2 years. If Sanji learns Armament Haki only in 2 years… I really can't bring myself to think of that as terribly unfair, even if he wasn't specifically training for it. He is a fellow "monster", after all, and honestly hitting Logia users feels like a pretty essential quality for one of the crew's top three fighters.
The main problem is that there was no one to teach him haki. I seriously doubt he miraculously had some form of inspiration that allowed him to learn COA when he had no knowledge of it, and Iva definitely didn't have haki 2 years ago. (Seems a lot of people don't like the idea of luffy teaching the crew haki so they try to come up with theories on how they might have mysteriously achieved it on their own)
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Iva could still have Haki, just that it wasn't enough against such powerful foes as Akainu and Magellan. But even if he doesn't, notice how he clearly recognized Luffy's burst of Haki in Marineford? So he clearly knows what it is, at least.
And moreover, I don't see why the idea of him "awakening" CoA Haki is so implausible. We've already seen Coby get a "free ticket" to Observation Haki, and there's no particular reason to assume that it's impossible for the same to happen to CoA. There would certainly be very good reason to give Sanji one to CoA, given that otherwise one of the "monsters" will be helpless against even the most piss weak Logia users for another year of in-universe time or so. That just doesn't sit quite right with me.
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Luffy learnt all three types though, remember? And it took him 1 1/2 years. If Sanji learns Armament Haki only in 2 years… I really can't bring myself to think of that as terribly unfair, even if he wasn't specifically training for it. He is a fellow "monster", after all, and honestly hitting Logia users feels like a pretty essential quality for one of the crew's top three fighters.
I
d still feel cheated if all three of the monster trio could suddenly kick logia user ass by means of CoA. Luffy has beaten two logia's before without using Haki. I
m sure Sanji could come up with a way, or at least discover Haki usage at the time is would be needed, not have it already. With Luffy it was pre-timeskip forshadowed that he would learn Haki. For Sanji or Zoro to have it aswell would be like:
-Luffy: Im going to learn Haki -Zoro: I
m going to learn to master the sword
-Sanji: Im going to run from okama's and learn how to cook –timeskip-- -Zoro: I
m a better swordsman
-Sanji: I got loads faster and can cook food that makes you fight better(or something)
Luffy: I learned to master Haki
Zoro & Sanji: Oh yeah btw, we learned that tooIt would feel much better to me, to have Sanji and Zoro discover Haki later on, for example during their fights this arc
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Iva could still have Haki, just that it wasn't enough against such powerful foes as Akainu and Magellan. But even if he doesn't, notice how he clearly recognized Luffy's burst of Haki in Marineford? So he clearly knows what it is, at least.
And moreover, I don't see why the idea of him "awakening" CoA Haki is so implausible. We've already seen Coby get a "free ticket" to Observation Haki, and there's no particular reason to assume that it's impossible for the same to happen to CoA. There would certainly be very good reason to give Sanji one to CoA, given that otherwise one of the "monsters" will be helpless against even the most piss weak Logia users for another year of in-universe time or so. That just doesn't sit quite right with me.
If it was possible to learn haki on instinct Luffy would have done it a long time ago seeing as he's the most instinctive character in the manga. Sanji is the intelligent type, he has to know the why b4 he'll do anything. And Iva doesn't have haki, if he did have the basics he would have at least been able to touch akainu/magellan.
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Thing is, Haki is being used in the story largely for the reason of not having to come up with convenient weaknesses for every Logia user around. On Zoro's part, it only makes sense that Mihawk would've taught him such an important ability, and while I realize that it's a little more iffy for Sanji I don't think it would really be such a big deal. I understand what you're getting at, but see, I think that problem can easily be solved by them simply not being as good as Luffy are at it and/or not even having all 3 types. Luffy's still going to be the best Haki user of them.
Maybe I'm misunderstanding you, but if they just up and discover Haki in their fights during this arc wouldn't that diminish Luffy's training even more? >_>
So Enel & CO didn't learn Haki on "instinct", without a guide or a teacher? I don't think it's such a big deal as you make it out to be. Oda has given multiple people "free tickets" to Haki already. Sanji, who is one of the crew's top fighters, getting one to the CoA type so he doesn't have to be useless vs. Logia users for like a year wouldn't be a big deal, to me anyway. As for Iva, again we can't say that for sure because we didn't see their encounters, and as I recall he said "Where did you get such a power!?" to Luffy, as in "How can you have that power!?" more so than as in "What kind of power was that!?". That's how I read it, anyway. It would really be odd for one of Dragon's more important lieutenants to not even know about Haki tbh.
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Thing is, Haki is being used in the story largely for the reason of not having to come up with convenient weaknesses for every Logia user around. On Zoro's part, it only makes sense that Mihawk would've taught him such an important ability, and while I realize that it's a little more iffy for Sanji I don't think it would really be such a big deal. I understand what you're getting at, but see, I think that problem can easily be solved by them simply not being as good as Luffy are at it and/or not even having all 3 types. Luffy's still going to be the best Haki user of them.
Maybe I'm misunderstanding you, but if they just up and discover Haki in their fights during this arc wouldn't that diminish Luffy's training even more? >_>
So Enel & CO didn't learn Haki on "instinct", without a guide or a teacher? I don't think it's such a big deal as you make it out to be. Oda has given multiple people "free tickets" to Haki already. Sanji, who is one of the crew's top fighters, getting one to the CoA type so he doesn't have to be useless vs. Logia users for like a year wouldn't be a big deal, to me anyway. As for Iva, again we can't say that for sure because we didn't see their encounters, and as I recall he said "Where did you get such a power!?" to Luffy, as in "How can you have that power!?" more so than as in "What kind of power was that!?". That's how I read it, anyway. It would really be odd for one of Dragon's more important lieutenants to not even know about Haki tbh.
You forget that Mantra is popular on the sky islands. Eneru evidently learned it on his sky island meaning he didn't come up with it on his own. As for your theory about Iva it's not really supported by anything and the fact that Iva doesn't have haki doesn't help. Sanji will eventually gain haki but it's pretty much 100% that he doesn't have it.
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Thing is, Haki is being used in the story largely for the reason of not having to come up with convenient weaknesses for every Logia user around. On Zoro's part, it only makes sense that Mihawk would've taught him such an important ability, and while I realize that it's a little more iffy for Sanji I don't think it would really be such a big deal. I understand what you're getting at, but see, I think that problem can easily be solved by them simply not being as good as Luffy are at it and/or not even having all 3 types. Luffy's still going to be the best Haki user of them.
Maybe I'm misunderstanding you, but if they just up and discover Haki in their fights during this arc wouldn't that diminish Luffy's training even more? >_>
So Enel & CO didn't learn Haki on "instinct", without a guide or a teacher? I don't think it's such a big deal as you make it out to be. Oda has given multiple people "free tickets" to Haki already. Sanji, who is one of the crew's top fighters, getting one to the CoA type so he doesn't have to be useless vs. Logia users for like a year wouldn't be a big deal, to me anyway. As for Iva, again we can't say that for sure because we didn't see their encounters, and as I recall he said "Where did you get such a power!?" to Luffy, as in "How can you have that power!?" more so than as in "What kind of power was that!?". That's how I read it, anyway. It would really be odd for one of Dragon's more important lieutenants to not even know about Haki tbh.
The ideal situation IF they were to learn haki at this point would be for it to be hinted at during their training but require a heat of the moment situation to truly be able to use it. Same as Luffy's CoC used to be. That way I could live with it.
However I think its totally unneeded for them to have Haki at this point. You`re stretching the whole logia point to far. Not everyone of the monster trio has to yet be able to defeat a logia user with Haki. For those few logia's around (its a rare fruit) they have a captain with full Haki knowledge. Haki isnt the ultimate treasure here, it can still be the monster trio with only one of them having it. Just like with devil fruit powers, one can be freakishly strong without Haki aswell
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I thought it was pretty heavily implied that Enel and his priests just got it from birth, as opposed to learning it. Hence Enel considering it "A power worthy of a God!" or whatever he said. I also can't recall where it was said that Mantra is "popular" on the Sky Islands; Gan Fall, who had ruled Skypiea for years, didn't know much about it. Like I said, I find no particular problem with Sanji merely having awakened it on his own. If Enel and his priests could, I don't see what's stopping one of the crew's "monsters". It just feels troublesome to me to think that he can't do anything to even the weakest Logia users around and won't be able to for a looong time.
Not everyone of the monster trio has to yet be able to defeat a logia user with Haki… ...just like with devil fruit powers, one can be freakishly strong without Haki aswell
Maybe they don't have to, but I don't like the idea that even after all this training they STILL face the same eternal problem. I know, Luffy can handle it. But a big reason for their training was that Luffy can't do everything on his own, that he needs his crewmates to be really strong so they can support him. At least the other two top fighters being able to handle a Logia user just feels right to me.
Regarding your 2nd point though, that is a bit different because Haki appears to be a virtually universal and essential ability the higher up in the power-tiers you go. And given how long it takes to learn, it just seems appropriate that they should already be starting to do so.
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I thought it was pretty heavily implied that Enel and his priests just got it from birth, as opposed to learning it. Hence Enel considering it "A power worthy of a God!" or whatever he said. I also can't recall where it was said that Mantra is "popular" on the Sky Islands; Gan Fall, who had ruled Skypiea for years, didn't know much about it. Like I said, I find no particular problem with Sanji merely having awakened it on his own. If Enel and his priests could, I don't see what's stopping one of the crew's "monsters". It just feels troublesome to me to think that he can't do anything to even the weakest Logia users around and won't be able to for a looong time.
Please stop stretching the logia thing, logia's are rare, its not a shame not to be able to defeat one.
Also we all know Enel was dillusional so we can't really take his word for anything when he talks about divine powers.
Also big difference between having something for birth (can also be read as: the affinity for CoO to be genetically transferable) and thus being able to use it since childhood (aisa) and just "suddenly" awaking a certain power. Very big differenceAlso what are you basing that last point on? The fact that all vice Admirals seem to have it? The Strawhats are not Marines. A lot of Vice Admirals also used parts of rokushiki, are you suggesting anyone who wants to be top tier has to learn that too?
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Coby just "suddenly" awakened it, though. And delusional though he was, I'd like to think that if Enel had been "trained" to use CoO he wouldn't be thinking of it as a divine gift or whatever. And see the rest of my post for more on the Logia thing.
I'm basing it on the fact that every single world-class fighter of that level, except Mihawk, we've seen has actually been confirmed to use Haki. Whitebeard and his top three, the Admirals, Garp, Sengoku, (Luffy coughed up blood when he was punched by him), Shanks, Ben Beckman, Rayleigh… do I need to go on? It would also just seem rather pathetic if you were that strong and could not as much as touch a Logia user, or various other ability users. Rayleigh even said that besides weaknessess, Haki is the only way to combat DF users. Finally, not having it is only limiting yourself; both main colors are very useful in a myriad of situations and just in general.
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Iva could still have Haki, just that it wasn't enough against such powerful foes as Akainu and Magellan. But even if he doesn't, notice how he clearly recognized Luffy's burst of Haki in Marineford? So he clearly knows what it is, at least.
And moreover, I don't see why the idea of him "awakening" CoA Haki is so implausible. We've already seen Coby get a "free ticket" to Observation Haki, and there's no particular reason to assume that it's impossible for the same to happen to CoA. There would certainly be very good reason to give Sanji one to CoA, given that otherwise one of the "monsters" will be helpless against even the most piss weak Logia users for another year of in-universe time or so. That just doesn't sit quite right with me.
He knows dragon, and dragon stopped smoker from killing Luffy way back, so thats probably how Iva knows about Haki. Its entirely possible Iva never wanted to learn haki or was never given to opportunity to.
They were the three "Monster Trio" before the skip, after they are probably more different. If Sanji knows any haki my bet is on "Color of Observation", because he would learn to see the people coming to chase him from far away and so get a head start in running. Personally I hope he is weaker (but as fast or faster) than Luffy and Zoro now. It just seems weird to me that the cook (whose job is solely to cook) is just as strong as the Captain and First Mate/Swordsman - both of which actually train to become stronger on a regular basis, while Sanji does not.
[Also Enel was delusional, he ate the thunder fruit at some point in time, yet I doubt he ever would admit something like that, he would simply say he was born with it]
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I honestly don't think anyone is going to be fighting caribou yet… I was thinking about it and the princes/army have to have sea stone weapons to nullify his power? Thus making him drop the mermaids or risk being captured? His power seems pretty bad ass, would be such a waste to have him get beat already.
edit: Also, I don't think Zoro will learn haki... I am thinking one of the swords he eventually acquires will be able to cut logia fruit users.
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Sure, he might know of it through Dragon.
Well Sanji was always a bit weaker than the other two. I'm expecting that to linger over the timeskip, too, and perhaps even for it to widen a bit, but I'm not expecting any HUGE gaps between them, you know? They've even been referred to as the three monsters already.
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Coby just "suddenly" awakened it, though. And delusional though he was, I'd like to think that if Enel had been "trained" to use CoO he wouldn't be thinking of it as a divine gift or whatever. And see the rest of my post for more on the Logia thing.
True Coby was a pretty special case, I cant really put my finger on it.
Im not saying Enel was trained in it, I
m saying he had it from birth like Aisa did. Thus a birthright which he could pretty much identify as divine.I
ve seen the rest of your logia post, but it doesn
t change much. Fighting Logia users has not been the eternal problem of Sanji and Zoro, it has mainly been Luffys problem. The only times Sanji and Zoro fought a logia was with Luffy there aswell. Besides that neither of them has really expressed irritation over not being able to hit logia's while Luffy has been commenting on it since he met Smoker. It only seems natural that Luffy would be the only one able to beat Logia users at this moment.Also Crocodile and Doflamingo seem to be doing pretty well, and neither one has shown signs of Haki
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I thought that all Haki users were "born" with the ability but just had to learn to control it?
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I thought that all Haki users were "born" with the ability but just had to learn to control it?
I suppose thats true, but Aisa for example seems to be born with much more control over it than a regular child. Same could be for Enel
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Yes, from birth. And thus he didn't need someone to teach it to him. He learned on his own. At first I'm sure it was like for Aisa and Coby, but he discovered how to control and use it on his own… kind of like what I'm suggesting for Sanji.
I can't really agree. It has Luffy's problem most of all, granted. But it would almost diminish the whole "We need to get stronger for Luffy's sake!!" theme if there's such an immediately present problem that once again only Luffy can even do anything against. And there's again the whole it taking so long to learn Haki thing. Rayleigh thought that he'd have a chance of "somehow" beating the basics into Luffy in 2 years, with Luffy being exceptionally talented. It just makes more sense to me that they've already began delving into it - to a lesser extent than Luffy, yes, but even so - and will have to improve as the series goes on, rather than it having to take what, several arcs until they can even begin to use it.
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Yes, from birth. And thus he didn't need someone to teach it to him. He learned on his own. At first I'm sure it was like for Aisa and Coby, but he discovered how to control and use it on his own… kind of like what I'm suggesting for Sanji.
I can't really agree. It has Luffy's problem most of all, granted. But it would almost diminish the whole "We need to get stronger for Luffy's sake!!" theme if there's such an immediately present problem that once again only Luffy can even do anything against. And there's again the whole it taking so long to learn Haki thing. Rayleigh thought that he'd have a chance of "somehow" beating the basics into Luffy in 2 years, with Luffy being exceptionally talented. It just makes more sense to me that they've already began delving into it - to a lesser extent than Luffy, yes, but even so - and will have to improve as the series goes on, rather than it having to take what, several arcs until they can even begin to use it.
Is it really such a immediate present problem? We havent seen the damn swamp man in a while, only heard of his actions and I don
t really see how a lot of people think he is that strong. He seems like a pretty simple thief character to me, something to get the strawhats suspected of a crime but not monster trio material. I mean he let Franky sneak up on him in the most silly way imaginable. I
d say the immediate threats are Hodi and VDD, and both Sanji and Zoro seem pretty well equipped to take those on. -
Well if you want a hypothetical scenario, imagine if Sanji bumps into Caribou attacking a bunch of mermaids. Caribou's not that strong in general compared to Sanji, but he's got a Logia fruit… so, the Black Leg's utterly useless? I just don't like the sound of that. Now I read the theories about heat and mud and whatever, but I feel as if Haki is a way for Oda to get around that problem, to not have to have everything conveniently line up so that whoever's fighting a Logia user somehow happens to be sitting on their natural weakness. Or let's say that someone like Enel shows up, and Luffy is inconveniently absent for whatever reason. The whole crew gets slaughtered just like before? I dunno, I can't help but feel that there'd be something wrong with that, especially with the rather heavy theme of "Luffy can't do everything on his own", and the timeskip was a great opportunity to remedy a problem like that given that the means of getting around it - Haki - takes a lot of time to be able to even use at a basic level.
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It just seems weird to me that the cook (whose job is solely to cook) is just as strong as the Captain and First Mate/Swordsman - both of which actually train to become stronger on a regular basis, while Sanji does not.
Zoro is the only one shown to regulary train, while Luffy seems to come up with new moves on the side just like everyone else. Sanji is as strong as these 2 because he grew up training just like they did. It was never thrown in our faces but he obviously had fantastic training getting kicked around by Zeff. I think people forget that. All 3 of them grew up doing some type of fighting art.
As for this entire argument, I am pretty much with Coruscation. At least I think I am, there is a lot of dialogue in the last page. I wouldnt be surprised if we find out during the major fighting this arc that Zoro and Sanji both posses some kind of Haki. Maybe not as developed as Luffy but it could be there. Sanji had 100 different masters to learn from who are in one way or another connected with Dragon, someone knows Haki on that island. While Zoro had the ultimate swordsman to learn from.
If Coby starts his awareness of it I can totally see Zoro and Sanji knowing something about it as well. Everyone is born with it, not everyone can tap into it and some people are gifted prodigies like Aisa. If they don't have it now Luffy is going to make them totaly aware of it soon. After all he did say he has so much to tell the crew now that they are back together.
And good god, no more find the weakness of the fruit. That kind of crap can only last so long and that is the reason why Oda goes the Haki route. The monster trio needs to have Haki, maybe not now, but they need to be able to handle logias with out the whole find the weakness ordeal.