@kevo_koma:
BRO, we have seen multiple times that the Fruit abilities remain the same, despite its user.
We have Sabo and the fire Fruit.
We have Orochi's guy with the Clone fruit.
These fruit abilities remained consistent regardless of the user.
Therefore, the Rubber fruit would still retain its properties across Luffy and the previous user.
Yes, I will agree that one of the biggest mysteries in OP is how inanimate objects gain fruit abilities.
But the one thing that is 100% is that Roger did not have the Rubber fruit.
Do you think that the former user of the Gomu Gomu no Mi used it the same way Luffy does? There's almost no way, given how creative Luffy has gotten with his ability.
The same thing is true with other users / Devil Fruits. It gets more complex when you combine a DF with haki, right?
Sabo was immediately able to use the Mera Mera no Mi, but I have my suspicions that part of Ace lived on within the fruit (and now within Sabo). Even then, Sabo's moves are a mix of his previous abilities and Ace's.
And you can't say that Roger didn't have the Gomu Gomu no Mi with 100% certainty — that's impossible to prove at this point. However, it is true that we don't know the former consumer of the Gomu Gomu no Mi… nor do we know if Roger had a Devil Fruit. It wouldn't be insane if Roger had it and also made it his own.
@tolazy:
I feel like the Gorosei are mostly commenting on what has happened and what it means for the system of the three powers. The content of the discussion between the Gorosei are two things: Shanks and what he is up to and the search for a replacement for Crocodile. In my volume they dismiss Shanks and what he is doing at that time, after they hear he only sent a messenger. To close the opening in the Shichibukai is more important to them.
Why do they so easily dismiss two Yonkou getting into contact with each other? When Big Mom and Kaido linked, the Marines called a state of emergency.
It's because Shanks sent an envoy and the Gorosei clearly doesn't view him as a threat to world order.
@tolazy:
They want to keep the balance of the three powers intact, not the Yonkos themself! The system of the three powers are nothing more than a means of keeping the status quo, which also means the WG stays - somewhat - on top of things. If anything, the scene shows how fragile the system of the three powers is and how important it is that everything stays exactly the same, because if even one player within the system falls out of his role everything gets destabilized. And at the moment the three powers are overbalanced after what happened with Crocodile and then Shanks takes for some reason action.
They want to keep balance in the world through the three powers. Please reread the line — I think it's less ambiguous than you think:
“The destruction of the three great powers would reverberate throughout the world. They must be protected.”
This is the line, verbatim. They say they want to protect the three great powers — not dismantle any of them.
@tolazy:
By the way, just because the Yonkos are considered one of the three powers of the world doesn't mean the Yonkos care about it or that the Gorosei aren't willing to erase one of said powers if it is convenience for them.
Or why did they allow the marines to go to war with Whitebeard over Ace, if they want to protect the Yonko as part of the system?
Because Whitebeard arrogantly wanted to do what he wanted to do. His ship operates like a family and they have a code of conduct. He sent Ace after Blackbeard to take him out and refused to call him back.
The execution of the Pirate King's son was largely a publicity stunt engineered to strike fear in the hearts of pirates, hence why Marineford was so heavily armed. The Marines expected Whitebeard to appear and wanted to take him down as well
The Paramount War was Whitebeard's fault, not just Blackbeard's. Blackbeard had no intention of killing Ace at first — his initial target was Luffy, remember? He wanted to deliver Luffy's to the Marines for a spot in the Shichibukai. Blackbeard even asked Ace to join his crew initially!
Whitebeard could have called off Ace at anytime and chose not to out of pride. The WG certainly wasn't concerned with Whitebeard's operations prior to this, as he was able to operate for more than 20 years after Roger's death. Whitebeard may have broken a social contract here — one in which all of the Yonkou have entered. It wouldn't be the first time he rebelled against authority (a la Rocks).
@tolazy:
Really?Because it sounds and looks like Shanks doesn't really care whether the WG will interfere or not. But that is how I read and interpret the scene.
That's exactly how I read it as well. Why?
Think about how feared the WG is by EVERYONE in the series. They commit genocide on a whim. Why is Shanks so nonchalant? Seemingly, because he isn't worried about the potential backlash.
Is this because Shanks is just that strong? Or is it because he knows he won't be punished? Something similar happened when he asked Sengoku for Ace and Whitebeard's bodies.
Heck, maybe Shanks is a part of Sword? 🧐
@tolazy:
Huch? He knows something? Well… he remembers how he lost his arm. Nothing special her for me.
You are also leaving out the reason for Shanks to seek out Whitebeard: to warn him form BB and to persuade him to call back Ace for the time being. Shanks even states that he has only one scar which still hurt, and that said scar was caused by Teach. So, Shanks simply took what he knew from personal experience, what he knew of Ace and concluded, that a fight between BB and Ace would end bad for one of the two. This has nothing to do with haki. It's plain old logic. Hell, the first time i read that whole scene I thought 'uho... doesn't sound good.'
I agree with you, that Shanks is concerned about the new era and the possibility of it spiralling into chaos. But how did he see it coming? I would say he used once again plain old logic.
Shanks knew that a fight between BB and Ace would end badly for Ace. Hence the warning.
I agree that Shanks was concerned about the new era, but we can't rule out that this was prophecy. After all, Shanks first attempted to speak with Whitebeard all the way back in Jaya. Maybe he knew something. We still don't know what happened between him and Kaido.
@tolazy:
Are you seriously want me to believe, that Shanks has advanced observation haki, which allows him to see a future many year away?? How do you even get that out of the scene you quoted?
Is this really that far-fetched? Katakuri can see the future. Shyarly too. Everything Usopp has lied about has eventually come true. The power exists in this world.
@tolazy:
Yes, the Gorosei are questioning the current system, but at the same time they are thinking on how to fill the openings within Shichibukai. They are still intent to keep the system of the three powers in the way they can do it: appointing new members for the Shichibukai.
Initially, but they eventually move to destroy the Shichibukai after the system has been rocked too hard. We know that currently, the Shichibukai are awaiting Buster Calls. The system can no longer be maintained due to Luffy, whom they've been keeping tabs on since their first appearance.
@tolazy:
To answer your question: No! Because the Gorosei don't appoint a Yonko.
IIRC, somebody "gains" the title of a Yonko if he/she is recognized as a ruler of the New World by the WG and other pirates (which is the reason why Luffy's title als Yonko isn't legitimate). It took BB a war against Marco and the remains of the Whitebeard Pirates to be recognized as a Yonko. And he had two devil fruits, powerful crewmembers and he knew the Whitebeards territories very throughly. So knowlegde and power are not enough to become a Yonko without being recognized as the absolute top tier.
Furthermore, the Gorosei are commenting on the happenings within the pirate world and BB chances as a potentional new Yonko, which they can't really influence contrary to who gets a place within the Shichibukai or what the marines do.
Do you know this for a fact or is this an assumption? I think it's the latter :)
Go back to 594 — the Gorosei are discussing who the frontrunner for Whitebeard's replacement in the Yonkou will be. They settle between either Blackbeard or Marco + Whitebeard Pirates.
Then what happens during the 2 year timeskip? Marco is defeated by the Blackbeard pirates, cementing the latter's status. We have no clue if he was appointed, but he seems to be living comfortably.
@tolazy:
Yeah, Shanks did use Buggy and his ability there. But dont't forget the panel on the next page where Buggy realize that Shanks is his ticket out of Marineford. So Buggy is just as much using Shanks as Shanks is using him.
Can't right now remember where a young Shanks was shown to manipulate Buggy.
Young Buggy seems to really dislike Shanks, who has done something unforgivable. Buggy also laments that Shanks used Buggy as an errand boy — which seemingly happened in the past, too.
Shanks may prove to be a manipulative person; we'll see.
@tolazy:
I fear my take not only on the scenes is very different from yours, but also my view on Shanks. You see something dark (I don’t want to say sinister or evil) in Shanks character and what he does.Whereas I see a character with an unknown agenda/motivation, maybe with some grey areas in the moral department, but general considered as one of the good guys. This view of course affects how we look and interpret this scene.
I feel a lot regarding Shanks and what/why he does is still up for interpretation because his motivation is unknown to us. Whether Shanks is truly a good guy or a bad guy looking like a good guy is something we as reader can only decide once we learn of Shanks motivation.
Just to circle back on this, recall chapter 96: entitled "The Greatest Evil in the East". What do you make of this menacing face, covered in shadow?
@andre:
Is it possible that Roger had eaten the Gum Gum fruit? Yeah, I suppose, but I think it would be pretty bad writing from a guy who has been pretty careful with things like that. It would be way more than unusual for Roger to have had the same fruit as Luffy and no one to have commented on it.
Why would it be bad writing? It's possible that Roger used it differently (or obtained the power later in life). We've never seen Roger's full abilities.