Chapter 610: "The Fortune Teller Madame Shirley" Discussion

Kishido

LOL yeah it is…

op.d.fan

Probably it has been posted before, but no sure:
In a few Spanish forums people has discussed in Marmaid Cafe is in fact a brothel, and the "candy" for Big Mam is in fact drugs.

No, this is not a Dumb prediction.
Of course, this is not a seinen, so it can not be shown explicit. But in this chapters there are a few hints

Mermaid Cafe
-A lot of men entering and exit

Shirley is a "Madame", the name of the usual ruler of brothel

The gag about Camie's "shell"

Only beautiful mermaids serving?

Rich guys like Pappugg going there (I hope Pappugg is ony there to salute Camie)

Candy factory
-Big Mam uses the island for business
-Seriously, apart of a even very weird Oda's creation would need so much candies?

The envelopes of candies seems perfect to transport other things

whats going on in your minds

javimgol

@HikaruYami:

This is stupid and you're stupid.

While things like Hancock and other slaves being molested as children is possible, such things are clearly marked as DARK and TABOO in this series. Something so ridiculously happy like the mermaid cafe cannot possibly be a brothel. You and the spanish forums should be told about Maid Cafes in Japan.

Also, Pappug would not be saying something like Candy if he meant Drugs. There is no reason for him to mask this for a pirate crew =.=" And I bet when we see her, she will be carelessly munching on candy, not popping it in carefully. No one, no matter how ridiculously manga-universe strong they are, can live through overdosing as heavily as we would (if your idiotic suggestion is correct) be seeing her doing.

Seriously, this was just completely mental for the spanish forums and for you in particular (since you bothered posting it here).

Of course, Mermaid Cafe could be sth like the Maid Cafes in Japan. But slavery,discrimination,Hancocks and co being disturbed a lot of non-standards stuffs has been subtled by Oda, why not this?
The black statement is totally out of place. It's a theory related to the chapter, and in fact, no one of my arguments about Marmaid Cafe is false. What could be false is the conclusion I get.
The Candy-Drugs is more difficult, I now. But in a world like One Piece we could be sure there are prostitutes. Or do you do not remember the girls who were with Sarquiss?

Kishido

Seriously… WTF?

Tsukishima

@Castelmore:

I think you didn't get his post :getlost:

looking at you only wanted to use his new gif.

@javimgol:

Rich guys like Pappugg going there (I hope Pappugg is ony there to salute Camie)

OK, this made me laugh.

Or do you do not remember the girls who were with Sarquiss?

They were members of his crew.

Kishido

Camie is a whore… Seriously. Sanji will use all his money there... And Brook won't have to pay cuz of his status

Gladiator777

After going as far as Hitting a Tenryuubito To save Her, Camie would Simply turn a whore.
-Conclusion of the Shabody Arc-

javimgol

@KiShiDo:

Camie is a whore… Seriously. Sanji will use all his money there... And Brook won't have to pay cuz of his status

Do you remember where Camie lived? In a poor zone of the Mermaid Zone. And when they asked why, she didn't answer.
As I said, it's just a theory. And I'm pretty sure Oda will never explain that explictly

@Tsukihima And do you remember well how Sarquiss was hanging with those girls?

Kishido

@javimgol:

Do you remember where Camie lived? In a poor zone of the Mermaid Zone. And when they asked why, she didn't answer.
As I said, it's just a theory. And I'm pretty sure Oda will never explain that explictly

That makes a lot of sense

ponx

@javimgol : U're joking right? (I wouldn't mind being coming to those kind of brothel tho)

But The Candy Factory as a cover up is a possibility, either she's using it for something else or its just a decoy for a hidden agenda. (some pages back someone suggested that she was in fact looking for the Ancient Weapon and was just using the factory as her secret base)

Or. She just really likes candy, and theres some sort of super secret ingredient used to make super sweet candies and found only on Fishman Island

OH. But u are absolutely right about one thing!!
That theory have never been posted before

Tahkyn

@javimgol:

Probably it has been posted before, but no sure:
In a few Spanish forums people has discussed in Marmaid Cafe is in fact a brothel, and the "candy" for Big Mam is in fact drugs.

wOxt9PoJNkg

One of the Yonkou is a drug baron? Nope, can't see that, directly or indirectly.

Big Mam likes candy, and my money says it's literally candy, sweet candy. That's the kind of quirk a character I can see being given to a character in the One Piece universe.

And the caf'e is not a brothel, it's Fishman Island's treny night spot. Pappug is the cool guy who can get into places like this, without lining up for hours. That is all.

javimgol

@ponx:

@javimgol : U're joking right? (I wouldn't mind being coming to those kind of brothel tho)

But The Candy Factory as a cover up is a possibility, either she's using it for something else or its just a decoy for a hidden agenda. (some pages back someone suggested that she was in fact looking for the Ancient Weapon and was just using the factory as her secret base)

Or. She just really likes candy, and theres some sort of super secret ingredient used to make super sweet candies and found only on Fishman Island

OH. But u are absolutely right about one thing!!
That theory have never been posted before

It's just a theory I have read, not mine. Even the mythical Redon, Spanish, was discussing it
If we don't see Mermaid Cafe again, i would support the theory (the subtle data which were given in the chapter was enough for Oda to make us aware of what really it is). If in the next chapters we see happy people and kids drinking coffee there, of course it would be a wrong theory just like 99%.

redon

@javimgol:

It's just a theory I have read, not mine. Even the mythical Redon, Spanish, was discussing it

I´m not discussing nothing :wassat:

javimgol

@redon:

I´m not discussing nothing :wassat:

Sorry, other moderators and a lot of veteran users, were discussing there, I thought you were too

Rafa Corega

I'm not discussing nothing either, and i'm famous for my bizarre theories in the same forum XD

But his opinión it is respectable, and should not be insulted by this.

I support the theory of the brothel, as a joke by Oda (or not), but nobody says that the Maid Caffes are brothel in real world…

I demand apologies, Hikaruyami. Javimgol and the spanish forums didn't intend to insult the Maid Caffes in Japan (We are no stupids)

Essam Ismail

waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaasup my best best friends

so do we hv a spoiler this week or i should go to sleep ??

many thanks
essam ismail
system analyst

GetsugaZoro

@Essam:

waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaasup my best best friends

so do we hv a spoiler this week or i should go to sleep ??

many thanks
essam ismail
system analyst

Too soon, go to sleep.

Mugiwara_kun

About Big Mom i'm pretty sure the candy factory is a plot device to give us a sneak peak to her personality and more importantly to show that she is not as nice as Whitebeard was.
Also, as i said some pages ago, her presence on FI is probably a plot device to make Fishman Island the paradise we all wanted to see.

Probably shouldn't read too much into this.

Essam Ismail

@GetsugaZoro:

Too soon, go to sleep.

thanks my brother

i think i will check tom, ur my best friend ever in AP keep in touch man

many thanks
essam W ismail
system analyst

Mugiwara_no_Ice

Hahahahhahahha I love Apforums! The place where posts like this:
@javimgol:

Probably it has been posted before, but no sure:
In a few Spanish forums people has discussed in Marmaid Cafe is in fact a brothel, and the "candy" for Big Mam is in fact drugs.

No, this is not a Dumb prediction.
Of course, this is not a seinen, so it can not be shown explicit. But in this chapters there are a few hints

Mermaid Cafe
-A lot of men entering and exit

Shirley is a "Madame", the name of the usual ruler of brothel

The gag about Camie's "shell"

Only beautiful mermaids serving?

Rich guys like Pappugg going there (I hope Pappugg is ony there to salute Camie)

Candy factory
-Big Mam uses the island for business
-Seriously, apart of a even very weird Oda's creation would need so much candies?

The envelopes of candies seems perfect to transport other things

are posted, in all seriousness.

This is a kid's comic story; prostitution won't ever be introduced, as a theme, an innuendo, a symbol or in any way possible in this story.

nefra

Originally Posted by javimgol
_Probably it has been posted before, but no sure:
In a few Spanish forums people has discussed in Marmaid Cafe is in fact a brothel, and the "candy" for Big Mam is in fact drugs.

No, this is not a Dumb prediction.
Of course, this is not a seinen, so it can not be shown explicit. But in this chapters there are a few hints

Mermaid Cafe
-A lot of men entering and exit

Shirley is a "Madame", the name of the usual ruler of brothel

The gag about Camie's "shell"

Only beautiful mermaids serving?

Rich guys like Pappugg going there (I hope Pappugg is ony there to salute Camie)

Candy factory
-Big Mam uses the island for business
-Seriously, apart of a even very weird Oda's creation would need so much candies?

The envelopes of candies seems perfect to transport other things_

plus the mermaids were really friendly with sanji…http://www.mangareader.net/one-piece/609/8

Thatanas

@Mugiwara_no_Ice:

Hahahahhahahha I love Apforums! The place where posts like this:

are posted, in all seriousness.

This is a kid's comic story; prostitution won't ever be introduced, as a theme, an innuendo, a symbol or in any way possible in this story.

Like how people don't get murdered, heads get blown off and all stuff like that right? That would be unheard of in a kid's comic story!!

Mugiwara_no_Ice

@Thatanas:

Like how people don't get murdered, heads get blown off and all stuff like that right? That would be unheard of in a kid's comic story!!

I don't understand. You mean Pell?

Maki707

@Mugiwara_kun:

About Big Mom i'm pretty sure the candy factory is a plot device to give us a sneak peak to her personality and more importantly to show that she is not as nice as Whitebeard was.
Also, as i said some pages ago, her presence on FI is probably a plot device to make Fishman Island the paradise we all wanted to see.

Probably shouldn't read too much into this.

The candy plot point may well have significance.
It has been theorised for a while that Big Mum/Mam will loosely represent famine.
This food plot point seems to be an indicator that the theory is correct, I beleive her ransom demands for food will be a more serious issue to some island later in the story - it's just small foreshadowing at the moment.

adbgonzalez

There are a lot of mermaids there, the waitress are mermaids, and they are the main attraction. There is also a Madame who rules them all. Leaving aside the sexual thing, there are similarities with brothels, but to me it's more like a maid cafe, or like the movie coyote ugly.

taiyou-burst

Well maybe the Mermaid Cafe is a lot like Hooters? Anybody think of that… A place where sex may not be on sale, but it is an advertisement...

ponx

@Maki707:

The candy plot point may well have significance.
It has been theorised for a while that Big Mum/Mam will loosely represent famine.
This food plot point seems to be an indicator that the theory is correct, I beleive her ransom demands for food will be a more serious issue to some island later in the story - it's just small foreshadowing at the moment.

Hmmmm. I've always thought of the shichibukai to represent the 7 sins. Now if (and IF) the Yonkous were to represent the 4 horsemen…
Whitebeard = War
Big Mam = Famine
that leaves Plague and Death. Which I somehow am not sure where to put Shanks there

Aohige_AP

@Thatanas:

Like how people don't get murdered, heads get blown off and all stuff like that right? That would be unheard of in a kid's comic story!!

Um, depiction of brothels and drugs wouldn't fly in Weekly Shounen Jump.
At least not since the mid 80s.

At worst, it would be a passing reference to something not shown, such as Yahiko's mother being a prostitute in Rurouni Kenshin.

Mugiwara_no_Ice

Oh No, last night I was in this "café", with only beautifull waitresses. Damn I was in a brothel… I didn't have a clue.. /sarcasm off - Grow up people!

THE SEA

@ponx:

Hmmmm. I've always thought of the shichibukai to represent the 7 sins.

They don't.

BingBang

Maybe every Yonkou have his own treatment of the island they have:

Whitebeard: To protect and have a big family.
Big Mam: To eat and make business.
Shank: To hide and make parties.
Kaidou: To conquer and people fear his name.

THE SEA

@Aohige_AP:

Um, depiction of brothels and drugs wouldn't fly in Weekly Shounen Jump.
At least not since the mid 80s.

At worst, it would be a passing reference to something not shown, such as Yahiko's mother being a prostitute in Rurouni Kenshin.

Jojo's Bizarre Adventure had a lot of whores.
Part 5's crucial motivation was about drugs.
But One Piece isn't Jojo.
One Piece: 13+
Jojo:16+

Aohige_AP

Jojo's case is different. It depicted drug cartel as the prime antagonist.
If WSJ was to depict drug use/trade or prostitution as even remotely acceptable form, they would be in deep trouble.

So no, your example doesn't really compare to what this fella is proposing.

I survived the buster call

I don't know about any of the 7 sins and four horseman stuff, lol but… I think it's reasonable to think that Big Mam has the potential to be not such a nice person. I say this based on the idea that prior to WB's death, the OP world was in a sort of uneasy power standoff--sides seemed to be considered by the major players to be relatively even. Clearly Shanks and WB, while definitely rivals, were on speaking terms and could even make deals together, and we know Shanks has fought with Kaidou, that could mean there stands the possibility that Big Mam is also someone against whom Shanks would fight--thus evening up the power plays between the four emperors--one "side" being WB and SHanks, the other being Kaidou and Big Mam--all of them against the WG by simple virtue of the fact that they are pirates.

Anyway--just some thoughts I had on the issue of Big Mam. No doubt it will get shot down almost as soon as I hit post, lol.

THE SEA

I mean I don't think addictive drugs will even be introduced in OP.
BTW, this is quite funny:
http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Dio_Brando

Coolnerd89

They've already mentioned human slavery and torture, so in a sense it really wouldn't be a huge jump, but I agree. I doubt that drugs would be used and/or mentioned in a universe that doesn't need it to advance the story.

Essam Ismail

@THE:

I mean I don't think One Piece will even depict drugs in any sense, positive or negative.

rumble ball :ninja:

op.d.fan

@I:

I don't know about any of the 7 sins and four horseman stuff, lol but… I think it's reasonable to think that Big Mam has the potential to be not such a nice person. I say this based on the idea that prior to WB's death, the OP world was in a sort of uneasy power standoff--sides seemed to be considered by the major players to be relatively even. Clearly Shanks and WB, while definitely rivals, were on speaking terms and could even make deals together, and we know Shanks has fought with Kaidou, that could mean there stands the possibility that Big Mam is also someone against whom Shanks would fight--thus evening up the power plays between the four emperors--one "side" being WB and SHanks, the other being Kaidou and Big Mam--all of them against the WG by simple virtue of the fact that they are pirates.

Anyway--just some thoughts I had on the issue of Big Mam. No doubt it will get shot down almost as soon as I hit post, lol.

U have a point
But she may not be a bad person , After all she is protecting the fishman island for some candies ,where she really can extort money from people (like arlong)

Maki707

@ponx:

that leaves Plague and Death. Which I somehow am not sure where to put Shanks there

Well based on some versions of the myth the first horse was righteous spread the 'good word'. So theoretically that could be Shanks inspiring Luffy to be a good pirate.

While I am on this though- even if the theory is correct it's best not to take the theme too seriously, as we have already seen with WB it has little bearing on the character themselves.
@BingBang:

Maybe every Yonkou have his own treatment of the island they have:

Certainly seems so. We have yet to see if Shanks actually protects Islands under his banner though :I
@I:

I think it's reasonable to think that Big Mam has the potential to be not such a nice person.

That was the implication I got anyway, from what the starfish said about her.

Reyairia

The thing is, we don't know anything about Big Mom to draw conclusions. We have enough information to do that with Shanks and Kaidou and most definitely Whitebeard but we know little to nothing about Big Mom.

It could be that Big Mom has a reputation to uphold and thus demands candy only because she doesn't want other people to view her as a caring person like they did to WB because of fear of sharing the same fate.

It could go any way, really.

Mortea

Just read the chapter. What can I say…Madam Shirley, what a mean. A vague "fortune"(ha-ha) with one define scary line. Just enough to spook people and make Luffy unwelcome. Again.
That is just what he needs to kick into adventure feeling.
Most likely the destruction will be Luffy lighting the fuse by mistake or for the good of people. Like, houses burn, people live.
But I am happy. Finally I smell an all-out fight to an end. With juicy finishers.

gottalt3OP

Drugs won't be used, but hallucinogenic mushrooms were.
Oda can simply say its a chemical moisture that gives pleasure to one who uses it, but causes great damage to his body .

I bet that would fit shounen jump.

nefra

@gotta<3OP:

Drugs won't be used, but hallucinogenic mushrooms were.
Oda can simply say its a chemical moisture that gives strength to one who uses it, but causes great damage to his body .

I bet that would fit shounen jump.

Fixed it for you :D

Md-Martin

@ponx:

Hmmmm. I've always thought of the shichibukai to represent the 7 sins. Now if (and IF) the Yonkous were to represent the 4 horsemen…
Whitebeard = War
Big Mam = Famine
that leaves Plague and Death. Which I somehow am not sure where to put Shanks there

Many people believe Blackbeard will kill Shanks at some point, so if he represents death…he might die.

And Kaidou killed all of Moriah's crew, almost like a plague.

tonyohoho

@mdmartin101:

Many people believe Blackbeard will kill Shanks at some point, so if he represents death…he might die.

And Kaidou killed all of Moriah's crew, almost like a plague.

:ninja: and I think yonkou is represent SHISHIN, the four guardian of The Compass Directions..

Whitebeard for Byakko (whitebeard and white tiger of the west),

Shanks for Suzaku (redhaired and vermelion Bird of the south),

Kaidou for Seiryuu (something related to the color of blue, maybe his power for azure dragon of the east),

and Big Mam for Genbu(something related to the color of black for black warrior of the north)

but I think someone already posted something like this :ninja:

Aaronrules380

Why the hell do people think they're supposed to represent something? These things always come to me as being like grasping at straws. The four horsemen thing sounds ridiculous to me, and the other one stopped being viable IMO after learning about Big Mam, since unless she has another epithet, it isn't really happening.

Pacer

@Aaronrules380:

Why the hell do people think they're supposed to represent something? These things always come to me as being like grasping at straws. The four horsemen thing sounds ridiculous to me, and the other one stopped being viable IMO after learning about Big Mam, since unless she has another epithet, it isn't really happening.

its because its a forum of people speculating on One Piece. Most people here keep forgetting its just a comic book.

Aaronrules380

Honestly, the main reason I don't get it is that when certain groups do have themes, they tend to be far more blatantly obvious, and not deep at all either. Shichibukai all have animal themes for instance, but none are in any way difficult to figure out from name and appearance

boxofwool

We're getting so in-depth with the story! I usually don't see these in most forums I've been in, lol.

Anyway, I've read over the last few pages and I have to say the theory about the drugs and the like is really interesting… though, yeah, Shounen Jump wouldn't like it and neither would lots of the readers/mothers of readers. It was a good speculation though! xD, maybe just a bit far-fetched?

I really like tonyohoho's thought on the Four Guardians/compass directions...

Muah

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