We will never get Post time skip Sogeking. If the persona of sogeking is the "true king of snipers" then Usopp will never be able to achieve his goal of being the king of snipers basically. He has no need for sogeking anymore.
How dare you. You've made Luffy and Chopper upset. >:(
Even if he doesn't need him as much, Sogeking will still reappear. It doesn't matter whether it's during battle or not.
@I:
Or did I miss something? I recall a post saying something about Aohige saying there was a mistake with the time frame, but I assumed it was the translater at the site with the scans. Was Aohige saying he made a mistake and it took Luffy a year and a half to learn to basics? (Argh, if so, then I am wrong of course.)
@I:
Ah there it is. LOL Thank you chpollastrini. Appreciate the clarification. I was wrong. Sorry for the misunderstanding.
Wha…? Did you even read my original post that you quoted? I even said that Aohige pointed out a correction of his translation, and gave the link to his post...... :pouty:
Here, look:
In fact, Cnet's translation implies that Rayleigh only taught Luffy the basics during those 1 year and a half:
"Luffy: I picked up all the basics in just a year and a half, after all… // Well, I guess this is goodbye to you guys and this place..."As well as Aohige's translation:
"Luffy: Yeah, I finished all the basics in one year... (at the animals) Looks like I'll be parting both you guys and this island now..."
(Remembering that Aohige pointed out a correction in his translation: http://www.apforums.net/showpost.php?p=1898655&postcount=1030 )
If I write something wrong, excuse my english….
http://read.mangashare.com/One-Piece/chapter-581/page012.html
Why are you referencing that page for? Iva is talking about the Vigor Hormones he gave Luffy before the riot at ID.
Exactly, I'm showing how torn up his body was even before the war. This is all about accumulated exhaustion and damage we're talking about here. I'm not just talking about the damage he received from the war.
He reached his limit after he was double-teamed and collapsed because they could no longer trick his body due to all the damage he had accumulated. Still no reason to assume his reactions, speed, and power dropped prior to falling down since he had hormones.
He reached his limit after he was double teamed? Sure, but when you reach your limit after a few attacks that goes to show you're almost there. Did you miss the panel of him panting just from running as he was trying to reach Ace? Before he was attacked?
!
Yes, he was already exhausted. Those hormones were near done by then. You really think his fighting ability wasn't lessened in any way due to this exhaustion? The man was running completely on hormones that were wearing off quick. Refer to my first link, when your body can't even stand anymore on its own, before the battle, and the only thing keeping you up are hormones and they're about to give out, just how well do you think you'll fair in battle?
Who said Lucci was the only Rokushiki master? Lucci is a young guy who has only fought weak pirates in his life and trained in seclusion gaining most of his power at W7. VA are Haki and Rokushiki using Swordsman who have decades of experience facing Veteran Pirates of the New World. They should be more dangerous than Lucci.
Lucci is a (I shouldn't have said "the") Rokushiki master and a tough one at that. I'm not going to get into a debate about who's stronger between Lucci and a VA. How would you know the caliber of opponents Lucci has fought all his life btw? Is that a guess or an assumption?
Seeing as they are mostly swordsman its a safe bet they are more proficient at CoO Haki than CoA since the latter is a pretty redundant skill for them with blades and claws at their disposal. Fight even makes it seem that way as they were reacting quite easily to Luffy's actions. You say that is cause of exhaustion but maybe they simply knew what he was gonna do. Not saying Luffy wasn't more damaged and fatigued as them. Only pointing out that they had been fighting people as strong or stronger than Luffy for hours and received no wounds.
Right, and maybe it was both. We know Luffy was tired even before the VA's fought him. Wouldn't that mean it'd be easier for the VA's to react to his movements?
You can make a fairly accurate guess to a Shounen character's strength by their role and status in a story.
Isn't Luffy the protagonist of this story? I'm not saying this should make him the strongest currently but coming from this angle is risky.
We haven't seen Yassop or Lucky fight but we make a very likely prediction that they are no weaker than Jozu&Vist serving the same exact role in the story. We didn't see it but its implied the VAs were keeping the New World Captains busy at the front of the bay. They weren't just handling fodder.
You really want to entertain the idea that a Rookie just entering the New World is already capable enough to put up a good fight the New World's Elite Pirates and Marines. Outside of Gear stacking Luffy shouldn't be able to defeat these guys yet and even Gear Stacking isn't a sure thing.
Now when you say a Rookie just entering the New World are you talking about current Luffy or pre-timeskip Luffy? I already said a VA would probably win against pre-timeskip Luffy in my very first post. Post-timeskip Luffy though and you have a whole different issue on your hand.
@The:
I'm really interested to see whether/how the relationships within the straw hats have changed in 2 years. Will Nami still hit Luffy whenever he's…well Luffy? Will Sanji and Zorro still beat up on each other at all times? Will Usopp return as Sogeking with a brand new theme song? Soooooo many questions to be answered.
On a side note, does it seem like Luffy's matured a little? It seems as if he now fully understands that Hancock wants to marry him, and he even made friends with some of the animals on the island instead of eating them. Could we potentially be looking at a Luffy that is (dare I say it) a little more intelligent? Also if he's learned how to control haki (at least the observation side of it) why didn't he know that fake-luffy was there and simply avoid bumping into him? My mind is now exploding due to the plethora of questions spewing out of my thoughts -_-
Back in sky island, they talked about turning off mantra that could be an explanation because Luffy isn't the type of person to keep on using it, or he could have seen the fake Luffy shoot the couple, and played with him a little by apologizing
This chapter was awesome and worth the wait. Reading this made me think of the saying: It takes a long time to grow old friends.
Wha…? Did you even read my original post that you quoted? I even said that Aohige pointed out a correction of his translation, and gave the link to his post...... :pouty:
Here, look:
LOL. No I didn't actually look at your link, because I had read something about a mistake and assumed it was the same. 
(yes, I understand what happened when a person "assumes" something.) I was vastly mistaken and now another mistake has been revealed! I will forever bare the shame from this day.:cwy: Unfortunately, I don't own any swords, so seppuku is out of the question. Will you accept another apology, instead? :blink: (please)
(Just for the record, it is, of course, all Robby's fault 
)
Actually no, read it again. Luffy learned the basics in 1 year and a half. And Rayleigh left the island 6 months ago (therefore Rayleigh only stayed in the island during 1 year and a half, and then left). So, all Rayleigh taught Luffy was the basics, and everything Luffy learned beyond that was on his own during these 6 months alone in the island.
Hmmm, it wasn't just the "basics", though, was it? Because, if I remember correctly, accordin' to MS, Luffy learned all Rayleigh had to teach him by a year and a half, and then left Luffy at the island to fend for himself for six months; looking at it that way, you can only imagine the new abilities and/or powers that Luffy's learned over the two-year span. We'll just have to see how he'll be able to utilize it efficiently enough to take him beyond the merciless waters of the New World, overcome the World Goverment, and, eventually, reach Raftel, no? :o
:P
Hmmm, it wasn't just the "basics", though, was it? Because, if I remember correctly, accordin' to MS, Luffy learned all Rayleigh had to teach him by a year and a half, and then left Luffy at the island to fend for himself for six months; looking at it that way, you can only imagine the new abilities and/or powers that Luffy's learned over the two-year span. We'll just have to see how he'll be able to utilize it efficiently enough to take him beyond the merciless waters of the New World, overcome the World Goverment, and, eventually, reach Raftel, no? :o
:P
Ooh I'm nervous about this–not having a sterling time posting this evening, lol, but I'll take the risk, and wade in never-the-less and respond...
Yes, but they also said that much of what Haki has to offer can't be taught because it's such an individual thing. My understanding was that much of what you gain from it comes from training and growing your own skills over time, once you master the basics. Thus learning all that Rayleigh had to teach could still mean only the basics, since beyond that may not really be teachable.
has anyone wondered how luffy learned it all so fast when hes so …luffy? lol
@I:
Ooh I'm nervous about this–not having a sterling time posting this evening, lol, but I'll take the risk, and wade in never-the-less and respond...
Yes, but they also said that much of what Haki has to offer can't be taught because it's such an individual thing. My understanding was that much of what you gain from it comes from training and growing your own skills over time, once you master the basics. Thus learning all that Rayleigh had to teach could still mean only the basics, since beyond that may not really be teachable.
Aaha, you have a point there, lol. :P That was what I was thinking of Haki as well: something more fit for being trained upon rather than being learned. I mean, since it seems to stem from one's own individual "willpower", to master it by learning about it by another person would pro'lly only be the first step in the process of completely "mastering" your own Haki itself.
Hmm, now that I think about it, that actually makes sense, lol. :P
Then again, if we think of it that way, then Luffy still hasn't grown too close to his full, possible potential then; it would seem like there is still a lot of things he can end up implementing into his abilities in the future.
But of course, I still don't really know what to think, exactly, since I guess we'll find out just what he truly did over the two-year timeskip some time soon/later, but I think what I really want to see is just how stronger Luffy's become when compared to how powerful he already was pre-timeskip (although, compared to the obstacles that lay ahead of him at that time, his power was still like nothing, lol).
And what you said is actually proven legitimate in one of the last panels in Chap. 597, actualleh: http://mangastream.com/read/one_piece/98271344/17. So I guess you are indeed right, haha. ^^'
As Rayleigh said, then, I suppose most of the time they were at the island were spent on "probing out" the three colors; after a year and a half, Luffy successfully fleshed them out, and for the last six months, he exercised their strengths and power. O_o I think that's what may have happened, lol..
If that was the case, then Luffy should be immensely strong, now, when you think about it. I mean, he could've learned a Gear 4 for all we know, lol. The 6 months he stayed on the island strengthening his Haki by himself would give him a headstart as well, but I guess he's still got a long ways to go until he eventually masters all three Colors, then, indeed. :o
It would be interesting to see how he would fare against opponents he had a rough time with/lost to in the past now, though, with this newfound strength of his. He'll finally actually be able to hit Smoker for once, haha. :P A fight between the two now would be somewhat intriguing..
ey does anyone no when the next chapter comes out, i live in australia and if it comes out tonite like late I dont mind staying up but what are the chances, its wendsay btw
Why are you treating VA's like a strength class.
Because it is as far as Marines go?
Hell, just a few chapters we were told as much.
luffy is so strong right now…..maybe his power same with the three generals
luffy is so strong right now…..maybe his power same with the three generals
you mean admirals? I highly doubt that. At most he is at par with the VA's and can beat them with a tough fight.
luffy is so strong right now…..maybe his power same with the three generals
Holy crap, that would make Luffy one of the strongest characters in the One Piece world. O_o
lol if smoker is there, he is about to get wrecked by luffy! XD
Because it is as far as Marines go?
Hell, just a few chapters we were told as much.
When they talk about VA's all being ambition users? Given what Rayleigh said as well it would probably mean they all can all use observation & armour. Which is stuff people in AL can do.
But do they all use it at the same level, have they all mastered the seven six skills, devil fruits etc.
They're as much as a strength class as the warlords are.
you mean admirals? I highly doubt that. At most he is at par with the VA's and can beat them with a tough fight.
I don't agree:
I don't agree:
- First thing Luffy asks when he learns about haki from Rayleigh is if he will be able to fight logias with this technique.
- Next Rayleigh decided to let him by himself after 18 months because he had nothing more to teach. Rayleigh who was able to fight one on one with Kizaru. By the way Luffy met the 3 admirals and know what they are able to, so he must have trained in order to - at least - stand a chance against them.
- Then the crew had his lot of defeats lately, Luffy decided they needed two years in order to be able to rush in the NW: now they have to make it in one straight blow, they should not be defeated anymore on their trip. They may still run and escape some times, they may lose in a first round against some villain but come back to win later, … but no definitive lost as they did "2 years ago".
I completly disagree, Luffy will probably be good against logia types but i highly doubt he will be on par with the admirals. Do you really think two years of training is enough?
I believe it goes without question he will at least hold his own, even if he is a long ways away from actually defeating them.
Luffy is not on the level of Rayleigh or the Admirals.
He's not at the NW yet and this pulp still has roughly a decade left. At the least.
@Mad:
I completly disagree, Luffy will probably be good against logia types but i highly doubt he will be on par with the admirals. Do you really think two years of training is enough?
I'm not saying he is as strong as admirals but he certainly is over the VA level.
I'm not saying he is as strong as admirals but he certainly is over the VA level.
THIS ^^ 49 characters of THIS.
We can all agree when luffy/zoro/sanji faces off the admirals, they will be strong enough.
When they talk about VA's all being ambition users? Given what Rayleigh said as well it would probably mean they all can all use observation & armour. Which is stuff people in AL can do.
But do they all use it at the same level, have they all mastered the
sevensix skills, devil fruits etc.They're as much as a strength class as the warlords are.
Being picky again, but while we were told that the people of AL were famous for their use of Haki, we were never told, (that I recall) exactly what that meant on even a general basis for the average A-Lillian. We don't really know (do we? Am I forgetting something?) that all of them can use, even basically, both of the two colors regular people have, nor to what degree.
As for the VA being a sort of strength class of their own–I have to agree with you that they aren't really, but we can at least agree that they'd have to have reached a certain level, at least, before they could be considered for VA, though, can't we? And I don't think I can agree with your analogy with the Shichiboukai. While it's true the Gorousei look for a certain level of strenth for the Shichi's--they can't be as certain about the Shichi's as they can about the VAs because they have no direct control of the SHichi's--whereas the VAs are marines, under their direct line of command--all of their training, medical and battle records are available to provide proof of whatever level of strength they've reached. I would argue that the VAs are a much more consistant level of strength than the Shichis.
THIS ^^ 49 characters of THIS.
Do you really think Luffy can beat Smoker already? :getlost: He might be able to beat some Vice Admirals but definitely not the top tier ones like Smoker
@Mad:
Do you really think Luffy can beat Smoker already? :getlost: He might be able to beat some Vice Admirals but definitely not the top tier ones like Smoker
I always figured Luffy and Smoker would be like Roger and Garp, both growing together and always stalemating.
@Mad:
Do you really think Luffy can beat Smoker already? :getlost: He might be able to beat some Vice Admirals but definitely not the top tier ones like Smoker
Last I checked Smoker wasn't a VA, though. I thought the highest we'd een him get to so far was Commodore, which pissed him royally because it was from the whole Alabasta fiasco. I don't think he went higher before the war, although for sure he could have been promoted during the skip.
@I:
Last I checked Smoker wasn't a VA, though. I thought the highest we'd een him get to so far was Commodore, which pissed him royally because it was from the whole Alabasta fiasco. I don't think he went higher before the war, although for sure he could have been promoted during the skip.
Which will be the case.
Or else i don`t know which guys are active in the G5..it seemed to be a high power force (maybe also the last sector where marines are in the NW) where you need a high rank to get a part of.
Unrevealed: Loki/Rocks/the man marked by flames/Im-san
Island: Elbaf/Raftel/GodValley
Unresolved: Weevil´s plan/Joy-Boy/Zunisha´s story/Rocks flashback/Void Century/Rioponeglyph/Uranus/the D.clan
DFWind/Metal/Acid/Liquid/Time-Stop
Do you really think Garp is VA's level ?
We are assuming he is over the "mean" VA level. Not that he will beat anyone just because they will have a VA title.
garp is the hero of d marines… n he didnt accept any promotion coz VA level was enuf for him to do watever he wants.. garp is stronger dan admirals or atleast admiral level
@Don:
Which will be the case.
Or else i don`t know which guys are active in the G5..it seemed to be a high power force (maybe also the last sector where marines are in the NW) where you need a high rank to get a part of.
LOL Hi Don.
Yes, I am very interested in seeing who is working over there across the red-line at the NW marine base. Smoker had requested a transfer to the NW outpost, but he asked about it when it was the old number. It'd be funny if they screwed him and put him where HQ used to be on SA! That'd piss him off for sure! LOL–but it'd also mean we'd have a chance of seeing him sooner than later.
I somehow doubt it, though, as I think others are at SA now, and Smoker is probably over in the NW as he requested to be, which would mean we won't see him until after FI.
I think the strawhats are going to be extremely powerful now since the time skip mainly because..
Each strawhat is a protege of their respective fields, so there growth in that area is going to be exponential compared to the others in the one piece world. Pretty much its a crew consisting of the Future best, swordsman, navigator, doctor, sniper, musician, etc.
So for luffy to be near admiral level, or atleast a step above the average VA, isn't much of a stretch.
Also as far as haki is conscerned. I think that someone with the "Will of D's" has a haki much more powerful than a regular no D's haki. since its tied to ambition/willpower/inner strenght etc. all qualities that Luffy has more of than almost any character in the series.
@I:
LOL Hi Don.
Yes, I am very interested in seeing who is working over there across the red-line at the NW marine base. Smoker had requested a transfer to the NW outpost, but he asked about it when it was the old number. It'd be funny if they screwed him and put him where HQ used to be on SA! That'd piss him off for sure! LOL–but it'd also mean we'd have a chance of seeing him sooner than later.
I somehow doubt it, though, as I think others are at SA now, and Smoker is probably over in the NW as he requested to be, which would mean we won't see him until after FI.
But he requested to be stationed at G5. Marineford HQ switched places with G1. Maybe G5 is farther into the New World, hence the reason why it's the worst place to be?
Dont you remember when Luffy fought the vize-admirals at Marinford? He was utterly overpowered by them. And no amount of haki would have changed this.
So is the present Luffy able to withstand a vize-admiral? Maybe. I could be an even fight with haki and a possible gear 3rd; it could be, that he is still too weak. Maybe he could defeat some of the really weak VAs. But it would be in no way a catwalk.
Is the present Luffy anywhere near admiral level? Just NO. I did not believe, that anybody can honestly think that.
@I:
Being picky again, but while we were told that the people of AL were famous for their use of Haki, we were never told, (that I recall) exactly what that meant on even a general basis for the average A-Lillian. We don't really know (do we? Am I forgetting something?) that all of them can use, even basically, both of the two colors regular people have, nor to what degree.
We weren't tolda that about the VA's either.
Just that the can use ambiton in the abstract.
@I:
As for the VA being a sort of strength class of their own–I have to agree with you that they aren't really, but we can at least agree that they'd have to have reached a certain level, at least, before they could be considered for VA, though, can't we?
yes but what is the baseline and how many of them are actually that close the weakest end. has oda even thought about this, etc, etc.
@I:
And I don't think I can agree with your analogy with the Shichiboukai. While it's true the Gorousei look for a certain level of strenth for the Shichi's–they can't be as certain about the Shichi's as they can about the VAs because they have no direct control of the SHichi's--whereas the VAs are marines, under their direct line of command--all of their training, medical and battle records are available to provide proof of whatever level of strength they've reached. I would argue that the VAs are a much more consistant level of strength than the Shichis.
It's true that walords only have to be able to intimidate other pirates, so they're a fairly disparate group. But VA's also range from at the top level Garp who is as strong as an admiral, to the bottom level of….who? All they fought during the war were other uber strong guys we know nothing about. We know nothing about whether they need to know the six skills. we know nothing about how far they've trained their ambition skills. Then DF's get thrown into mix.
We can't even begin to grasp how strong they are in a range so...that's why I say there's no such thing as "VA class", at least as far as fans reading should be concerned.
I wonder how Smoker and Tashigi look after the time skip. Hopefully Tashigi isn't as clumsy..
Borsalino fended off Rayleigh by himself.
Luffy ain't close to these guys.
Borsalino fended off an old, not-so-powerful-as-in-his-youth-by-his-own-admission, Rayleigh. Luffy is young and soon entering his prime. While i do not beleive he is close to Admiral range of power, I also do not believe he is all that weak anymore, either. What was the purpose of the time skip to begin with?
LOL–But in the end, it really matter very little. Time and Oda will tell us exactly what we want to know about Luffy's current strength
Whatever the case, if Kizaru faces the SH's, they are toast
Same for any other Admiral, he's New World level now, but he ain't still in the "one of the best" level
599 manga is out ….................. where is the discussion thread for it :O
599 manga is out ….................. where is the discussion thread for it :O
It's in your heart…...........................and on the top of the manga section.
errm sorry new to the forums dint know abt it :P 
