Chapter 594: "Message" Discussion

JERK DISEASE

That those two were bad does not mean that a title change will automatically make One Piece suck. Don´t equate a part two title change to sucking. I invoke Dragonball Z.

There was no title change in the Dragonball manga. It's the same thing from Goku meeting Bulma to him flying off with Uub.
Nor is the divide between "DB" and "DBZ" a notable timeskip. There had already been two timeskips in normal Dragonball, the second one being far more drastic then the one between DB and Z.

Z itself had at least two other timeskips within it.

Why does no one know shit about Dragonball.

Sakonosolo

Yeah, people always seem to forget Goku's grown at the end of Dragonball and that Z doesn't exist in manga form.

AMS

Not digging the idea of having a 2 year time skip. Also not sure if a japenese writer would have an acronym with english letters so all this may just be idle speculation. Generally time skips seem to indicate lazy writing or when a writer is running out of good ideas.

AMS

@Kairouseki:

Yeah, people always seem to forget Goku's grown at the end of Dragonball and that Z doesn't exist in manga form.

Z does exist, but it never changed the name in Japan (as for as I know). The Z was added to the anime, and eventually when they brought the manga over to the U.S. it was added to that portion of the manga as well.

JERK DISEASE

There is no Z in the manga, period, Viz did not create the manga they just localize it to the US and english speaking world.

And timeskips are not fucking lazy writing just because you've seen bad timeskips before.

AMS

@JERK:

There is no Z in the manga, period, Viz did not create the manga they just localize it to the US and english speaking world.

And timeskips are not fucking lazy writing just because you've seen bad timeskips before.

The Z is in the english version of the manga, go to friggin borders and try to buy it. It is obviously done as a way to get fans of the show a way to easily pick up the parts of the manga they want to read.

Also name a single time skip that was not lazy writing or did not bring about poor stories. In dragonball they retconned the whole story into a lame science fiction thing.

Sakonosolo

JoJo .

mab

@AMS:

The Z is in the english version of the manga, go to friggin borders and try to buy it. It is obviously done as a way to get fans of the show a way to easily pick up the parts of the manga they want to read.

Also name a single time skip that was not lazy writing or did not bring about poor stories. In dragonball they retconned the whole story into a lame science fiction thing.

did u read vagabound

AMS

@mab:

did u read vagabound

no sir I have not.

Robby

The bible has time skips.

It must be a terrible piece of work.

Sakonosolo

Frankenstein has one too doesn't it?

AMS

@robbybedfart:

The bible has time skips.

It must be a terrible piece of work.

This would be clever if the Bible was a single cohesive narrative.

AMS

@Kairouseki:

Frankenstein has one too doesn't it?

It has been about five years since i have read the book, I thought it was all a recollection from his journal or something?

JERK DISEASE

@AMS:

The Z is in the english version of the manga, go to friggin borders and try to buy it. It is obviously done as a way to get fans of the show a way to easily pick up the parts of the manga they want to read.

Viz slapping a Z on what they translate doesn't make the manga Dragonball have two differently named parts to it.
There is no damned Z for the manga. The story was not told that way, Toriyama never intended for that, stop pretending this.

Also name a single time skip that was not lazy writing or did not bring about poor stories. In dragonball they retconned the whole story into a lame science fiction thing.

Berserk, Vagabond, Akira, and shut up about Dragonball lol, you have no idea what you're talking about if you're trying to talk about "THE timeskip".

You don't have a fucking argument.

You're just running around like a headless chicken screeching TIMESKIP TIMESKIP and thinking you've made a point.

Sit down chicken little.

Sakonosolo

Hey. Stop ignoring me.

Beowulf.

And I'm fairly certain Don Quixote has one as well.

Pa[i]n.

@Sammsy:

you guys do realize that most the time that zoro is so called "training" he isn't.

when i go to the workout center am i trying to beef up and get to the next set of weights on barbell or press/ect. no, i'm just going and lifting to stay at my current physical level.

zoro sitting there curling something doesn't mean he is trying to get stronger at that moment.

only real times we have seen him training are after arabasta he did some "MENTAL" training for the breath, then after the Kuma incident he is worrying about being weak and training big on the ship. All others can be seen as nothing more than just staying in shape.

Lol man did u even read my post? :/

I don't know what u are doing,but everytime i am going to the gym i am trying my best to do better at lifts,cause if i am just working on the same lifts all the time,after a while i won't be able to get stronger,well if u just want to keep in shape that's ur choice and we've seen Zoro trying more and more in their ship,so that he can fulfill his promise…

He wouldn't be able to do some atks of his without insane weight lifting after all,like his Ichi,Ni Gorilla Nigorizake...

Just like i said be4,yeah he doesn't do any special training about his swords atks,but he is building up his body for sure...

JERK DISEASE

Cyrano de Bergerac, Great Expectations, The Deer Hunter, Mother Courage and her Children, I Claudius..

Sakonosolo

2001: A Space Odyssey

Sammsy

@'Pa[i:

n.;1764044']Lol man did u even read my post? :/

I don't know what u are doing,but everytime i am going to the gym i am trying my best to do better at lifts,cause if i am just working on the same lifts all the time,after a while i won't be able to get stronger,well if u just want to keep in shape that's ur choice and we've seen Zoro trying more and more in their ship,so that he can fulfill his promise…

He wouldn't be able to do some atks of his without insane weight lifting after all,like his Ichi,Ni Gorilla Nigorizake...

Just like i said be4,yeah he doesn't do any special training about his swords atks,but he is building up his body for sure...

heres a quick example, since just saw it. i know its not manga, its the movie, but there are plenty of times seen very same type of thing in manga

when shiki comes down you see zoro sitting there just curling and having a "bored as hell" expression on his face

he is not working out to be super big and strong, he is just keeping in shape half assed lifting. the way you guys talk about zoro its like you think everyday he is trying to bench press a new personal best

more people go to the gym to just stay in shape than to get stronger

antiravage

I'm sure someone already asked this, but is there a chapter this week?

Robby

Oh. And the Empire Strikes back skips three years after a New Hope.

Toy Story 3 has a 10 year timeskip from Toy Story 2.

Chronicles of Narnia jumps thousands of years between volumes, but only months for the kids.

Oh. And the Odyssey takes place over 10 years.

Timeskips aren't inherantly bad. Just because you have limited experience with one or two stories handling it badly doesn't make the technique itself foul.

Also, Dragonball is a terrible example of a "bad timeskip" considering the series had 6 or 7 of them, and that everyone who cites it apparently never actually read/watched the pre-Raditz portion of the series and has no idea how or when the tone of the series actually matured and changed.

Oh. Does it HAVE to be a manga example for this audience? Fine. I'll toss out Claymore and its multiple timeskips.

@AMS:

This would be clever if the Bible was a single cohesive narrative.

It starts with the creation of earth and follows the history of humankind throguh the millenia, then has a particular focus on Jesus.

It IS a cohesive narrative, it just spans a rather large period of time. If you want to ignore all the creationism and history of humanity, then fine. Just the Jesus portion is an example of a timeskip. Jesus is born, then it skips to his adulthood, and follows him around for a while until he dies and comes back.

Also, don't double post.

JERK DISEASE

So right now we got like….

Great Expectations VS. Naruto

Clearly timeskips suck!!!!!

AMS

@JERK:

Viz slapping a Z on what they translate doesn't make the manga Dragonball have two differently named parts to it.
There is no damned Z for the manga. The story was not told that way, Toriyama never intended for that, stop pretending this.

Berserk, Vagabond, Akira, and shut up about Dragonball lol, you have no idea what you're talking about if you're trying to talk about "THE timeskip".

You don't have a fucking argument.

You're just running around like a headless chicken screeching TIMESKIP TIMESKIP and thinking you've made a point.

Sit down chicken little.

You can obviously read so I must assume that you are intentionally being obtuse. I clearly said that the Z on the manga was an english language thing, heck it may even be an American thing. The point is moot though, it is one friggin letter, but at least it lets us know that the series is going to became progessively worse with each arc. In the case of dragonball it was not lazy writing, but it does show a change in tone of the overall story. What was once a zany fantasy story had essentially turned into a zany science fiction story and I hate that they retconned Saiyans and Nameks and all that stuff into the story.

If other stories have worked the device well then that is fine, it does not change it from being lazy writing when DC comics did a few years back, or when Naruto did it. It is often used as a way to change the status quo without actually having to write out how that can logically happen.

AMS

So let us compare more classic literature to a manga, that makes a lot of sense. Heaven forbid that books can pull of a concept better than a comic book.

And the timeskip between Empire strikes back and Return of the Jedi was lazy, Lucas basically didn't feel like putting any of that character development into the actual story and decided to give us the end result.

Sakonosolo

I said JoJo. Someone said Vagabond. Robby said Akira. Zephos said Berserk. Phoenix skips thousands of years forwards and backwards I think.

Zik

The timeskip isn't even the reason Naruto sucks now anyway.

It's pretty obvious Kishi wasn't going anywhere before it and would've continued to suck if there hadn't been a timeskip.
@AMS:

So let us compare more classic literature to a manga, that makes a lot of sense. Heaven forbid that books can pull of a concept better than a comic book.

There are countless timeskips used in comic books. Timeskips used well and did not cause the comic to suck after it.

antiravage

@Zik:

The timeskip isn't even the reason Naruto sucks now anyway.

It's pretty obvious Kishi wasn't going anywhere before it and would've continued to suck if there hadn't been a timeskip.

It was only after the time-skip that Kishi forgot most of the secondary characters and started treating them like fodder. So yes, the timeskip was the main originator of the quality differences between part one and part two.

But I doubt Luffy would change just because he got two years older. Goku never changed despite the continuous timeskips in db.

Robby

@AMS:

In the case of dragonball it was not lazy writing, but it does show a change in tone of the overall story. What was once a zany fantasy story had essentially turned into a zany science fiction story

Even though it had motorcycles that come out of capsules and a handheld computer radar system in the first chapter.

If other stories have worked the device well then that is fine, it does not change it from being lazy writing when DC comics did a few years back, or when Naruto did it. It is often used as a way to change the status quo without actually having to write out how that can logically happen.

So stop blaming a literary device for bad writers making poor use of it.

@AMS:

So let us compare more classic literature to a manga, that makes a lot of sense. Heaven forbid that books can pull of a concept better than a comic book.

….comics are just as valid a medium of storytelling as the novel. Any good writer can tell a good story with it, assuming the art is competant, the visual aspect has nothing whatsoever to do with the quality of the story, and can often enhance it or provide storytelling techniques unavailable in any other medium.

Unless you're going to start telling me Alan Moore is inferior to Stephenie Meyer because he writes comics and she writes novels.

AMS

@Kairouseki:

I said JoJo. Someone said Vagabond. Robby said Akira. Zephos said Berserk.

I'll have to read those someday. Akira is a manga I have never had a chance to read, I have only seen the film which was visually stunning.

Sakonosolo

So you haven't even read any manga pretty much and yet say none of them do timeskips right?

AMS

@robbybedfart:

Even though it had motorcycles that come out of capsules and a handheld computer radar system in the first chapter.

So stop blaming a literary device for bad writers making poor use of it.

Dragonball also had magic balls that granted wishes (turns out they are not magic but made by the nameks), a boy with a monkey tail (just an alien), a pig and cat who can shapeshift (to my knowledge he never tried to explain these two, just mostly forgot about them), a hermit master who is immortal, a werewolf, dragons, a bald monk without a nose etc…. The series started off a super silly fun tale, I enjoyed almost all of dragonball. After the time skip it was still fun, but I felt it became too serious, seriously devalued the use of secondary characters (though this was the case even in the first part) and pretty dropped a lot of the adventure of the earlier tales. So while DBZ was fun, I think it is a pale comparison to the original story.

Zik

@antiravage:

It was only after the time-skip that Kishi forgot most of the secondary characters and started treating them like fodder. So yes, the timeskip was the main originator of the quality differences between part one and part two.

But I doubt Luffy would change just because he got two years older. Goku never changed despite the continuous timeskips in db.

Maybe I'm looking at in hindsight but I thought the Naruto and Sasuke aspects were what ruined this manga.

It's true this manga could've went the way of a group protagonist angle but I never gave a fuck about Ten Ten and always felt dudes like Neji and Rock were gonna be background. I had already saw Kishi was doing a lil too much with the amount of jonins he introduced. Like when I look at pt.1 and pt.2 the lack of secondary characters isn't what really what jumped out at me.

Pa[i]n.

@Sammsy:

heres a quick example, since just saw it. i know its not manga, its the movie, but there are plenty of times seen very same type of thing in manga

when shiki comes down you see zoro sitting there just curling and having a "bored as hell" expression on his face

he is not working out to be super big and strong, he is just keeping in shape half assed lifting. the way you guys talk about zoro its like you think everyday he is trying to bench press a new personal best

more people go to the gym to just stay in shape than to get stronger

Man i am bored of searching now the chapters or the episodes cause i don't remember it clear now but i remember watching zoro lifting some crazy lifts with his swords,having a bad time with them…

And this isn't about our life,it is about One Piece,Zoro has more than 1 great reasons to push himself to the limits,he was trying his best since he was a kid,why would he want to just keep in shape when he can build up his body by lifting more weights?...

We all know that Zoro's determination and will are probably the strongest among the SHs{along with Luffy's}he keeps pushing his body to it's limits in every fight...

Btw i don't even know what your initial problem was about this training thing,we have seen him training in their ship,but just like i said in my first post all of them are getting stronger from fights...But he definitely does from this training too...he even said it to Kaku when they were fighting,that he has trained himself,after getting a direct hit in his stomach and Kaku was surprised that Zoro was still standing there like nothing happened lol...

Robby

@AMS:

Dragonball also had magic balls that granted wishes (turns out they are not magic but made by the nameks), a boy with a monkey tail (just an alien), a pig and cat who can shapeshift (to my knowledge he never tried to explain these two, just mostly forgot about them), a hermit master who is immortal, a werewolf, dragons, a bald monk without a nose etc…. The series started off a super silly fun tale, I enjoyed almost all of dragonball.

It was always a sci-fi fantasy though, with a heavy focus on escalating battles. That was the entire point of Bulma, the juxtaposition of the two sides of the coin.

The entire Red Ribbon arc was full of robots and mecha as the badguys.

After the time skip it was still fun, but I felt it became too serious, seriously devalued the use of secondary characters (though this was the case even in the first part) and pretty dropped a lot of the adventure of the earlier tales. So while DBZ was fun, I think it is a pale comparison to the original story

Oh, so you hated the Piccollo arc then? You know, where it got serious, Goku's friends started dying,and Goku grew up?

Or was it the Red Ribbon arc where the secondary cast was useless and stood on the sidelines gaping while Goku did everything?

AMS

@Kairouseki:

So you haven't even read any manga pretty much and yet say none of them do timeskips right?

More to the point that I have not read a manga that has used the device as anything other than a way to skip over actual story or character development, or just a sign that they are running out of valid ideas and are trying to establish a new setting to try and get it going again. Perhaps that simply means that I should read JoJo, or Vagabond or any of these others, but I still fear what a timeskip of this magnitude for One Piece would mean.

The theory people seem to think is that a 2 full year time skip. It seems like more time than any of the strawhats would want to wait, let alone Luffy. Having a smaller timeskip of a few weeks maybe months, seems much more plausible. I also think that people are generally assigning meaning to the marks on Luffy's arm, when we cannot even see them head on, there are a numerous possibilities to what those markings are.

maxterdexter

@AMS:

More to the point that I have not read a manga that has used the device as anything other than a way to skip over actual story or character development, or just a sign that they are running out of valid ideas and are trying to establish a new setting to try and get it going again. Perhaps that simply means that I should read JoJo, or Vagabond or any of these others, but I still fear what a timeskip of this magnitude for One Piece would mean.

The theory people seem to think is that a 2 full year time skip. It seems like more time than any of the strawhats would want to wait, let alone Luffy. Having a smaller timeskip of a few weeks maybe months, seems much more plausible. I also think that people are generally assigning meaning to the marks on Luffy's arm, when we cannot even see them head on, there are a numerous possibilities to what those markings are.

Cleary Oda will fuck up the story with the timeskip, you should stop reading then, save yourself from the inferior literaly medium!! Go! Run away!! Free yourself from the hell that is one piece!!

dragonfrost

does no preview text mean not chapter??? i was looking for a announcement somewhere on the forums but couldnt find one. also about luffy new tat, how can 3d 2y, why would a Japanese manga use english letters for abbreviations.

AMS

@robbybedfart:

It was always a sci-fi fantasy though, with a heavy focus on escalating battles. That was the entire point of Bulma, the juxtaposition of the two sides of the coin.

Oh, so you hated the Piccollo arc then? You know, where it got serious, Goku's friends started dying,and Goku grew up?

Or was it the Red Ribbon arc where the secondary cast was useless and stood on the sidelines gaping while Goku did everything?

I thought the manga was pretty darn awesome up until Krillin was killed. The Piccollo arc is not my favorite part of the manga at all.

Also I noted that Toriyama pretty much dropped his side characters all through out the manga, but it got worse in the DBZ part in my opinion. Even in the Saiyin saga you had all these characters getting murdered by Vegeta and Nappa, only for Nappa to job so easily to Goku. It was a cool scene when I was 13, but now I would have liked to see a better payoff for a entire story centered around these characters getting stronger.

Anyways this has nothing to do with One Piece, if we want to continue we should probably shift this to the a different sub forum.

AMS

@maxterdexter:

Cleary Oda will fuck up the story with the timeskip, you should stop reading then, save yourself from the inferior literaly medium!! Go! Run away!! Free yourself from the hell that is one piece!!

You should do stand-up.

Darkstorm

"Wah, wah, I hated the timeskip in the few things I have seen".

Does that sum it up.

JERK DISEASE

@AMS:

What was once a zany fantasy story had essentially turned into a zany science fiction story and I hate that they retconned Saiyans and Nameks and all that stuff into the story.

So why don't you hate the goofy fairy tale that breaks the fourth wall, turning into a serious martial arts battle against demons where characters die and tears are shed?

Oh right! Because you've never actually read Dragonball have you.

If other stories have worked the device well then that is fine, it does not change it from being lazy writing when DC comics did a few years back, or when Naruto did it. It is often used as a way to change the status quo without actually having to write out how that can logically happen.

What do you think is going on right the fuck now? Oda's setting up all the starts of threads now that will develop for the other end.

Who gives a fuck about what some dumb superhero comics and ninja comics did.
If you don't have any actual reason to fear a One Piece timeskip then shut up about it.

The series started off a super silly fun tale, I enjoyed almost all of dragonball. After the time skip

Alright seriously, stop talking about Dragonball.

Robby

@AMS:

Anyways this has nothing to do with One Piece, if we want to continue we should probably shift this to the a different sub forum.

Join date of… July 2010. Got it.

@AMS:

You should do stand-up.

Quit double posting.

Its against the rules and you're being consistent about it. There's an edit button, and a multi-quote button.

Use them.

Kaiolino

Goku skipped 6 years of his life in a few weeks cuz its a fantasy then the REAL AND ONLY TIMESKIP came and everything changed and became SCIENCE FICTION u guys r dumb

Nob1e-Freak

Still don't looking for the message

AMS

@JERK:

So why don't you hate the goofy fairy tale that breaks the fourth wall, turning into a serious martial arts battle against demons where characters die and tears are shed?

Oh right! Because you've never actually read Dragonball have you.

What do you think is going on right the fuck now? Oda's setting up all the starts of threads now that will develop for the other end.

Who gives a fuck about what some dumb superhero comics and ninja comics did.
If you don't have any actual reason to fear a One Piece timeskip then shut up about it.

Alright seriously, stop talking about Dragonball.

Believe what you will.

As for the time skip thing, think whatever you want as well. My original statement was ambigous enough, I never said that all timeskips are bad, but rather they generally tend to indicate such and such a thing. If you disagree then you are free to do so. I just do not see the purpose of one in One Piece. There is no reason Luffy and co. cannot head into the New World at their current level and get strongeron the way, as they have done for the past 592 chapters. The only reason people have to suggest a 2 year time skip is because there is a tatoo that vaguely appears to have the number 2 and the letter Y in it. For my money I will just wait and see what the author chooses to do, as of right now I am skeptical that we will see such a large skip of time.

Nob1e-Freak

i mean still looking for the message

does anyone know?

not bothered to look back on post

MushroomBoy

@robbybedfart:

The bible has time skips.

It must be a terrible piece of work.

i know this is a joke….......but i mean...hmm.

Nob1e-Freak

i saw the tatto but i dont think its relevent
if it was then they would have done a close up

Robby

@AMS:

There is no reason Luffy and co. cannot head into the New World at their current level

Aside from every single thing that has happened since Sabondy.

Nob1e-Freak

i think the places that they have been scattered would definityly make them strong enough to go to the new world