@Gotham, please dont try to give The Joker an origin story. He shouldnt have one, simple as that. A huge part of his character has always been that his history is a complete mystery.
Yet his most famous story details his background.
@Gotham, please dont try to give The Joker an origin story. He shouldnt have one, simple as that. A huge part of his character has always been that his history is a complete mystery.
Yet his most famous story details his background.
Yeah, plus it's not like they've never touched Joker origins in any other story besides the Killing Joke.
Yet his most famous story details his background.
Wait what? i always interpreted the "origin" story in the killing joke to be ambigious and open-ended. You know, the whole "Multiple choice" thing.
Wait what? i always interpreted the "origin" story in the killing joke to be ambigious and open-ended. You know, the whole "Multiple choice" thing.
By the end of it yeah it leaves you that feeling, but the most poignant thing about it besides the "unreliable narrator" was that it goes deep into the sort of really twisted psychology that could have framed the Joker and really goes deep with it. Regardless as to whether or not you believe it to be true, the novelty and draw of it lies in its narrative and its characterization of the crazed antagonist we all know.
Besides that, back in the day he was the red hood in a bunch of origins (Killing Joke included), so if Gotham chose to set him up as a criminal who eventually ends up in a vat somehow I don't really think it's necessarily a detractor unless it was told poorly.
@Purple:
By the end of it yeah it leaves you that feeling, but the most poignant thing about it besides the "unreliable narrator" was that it goes deep into the sort of really twisted psychology that could have framed the Joker and really goes deep with it. Regardless as to whether or not you believe it to be true, the novelty and draw of it lies in its narrative and its characterization of the crazed antagonist we all know.
Besides that, back in the day he was the red hood in a bunch of origins (Killing Joke included), so if Gotham chose to set him up as a criminal who eventually ends up in a vat somehow I don't really think it's necessarily a detractor unless it was told poorly.
The thing is (and i guses i expressed myself poorly in the first post regarding this matter) that the Joker has so many intentionally conflicting backstories, wich is awesome because it while keeps his true history a mystery, you can still sort of pick and choose what you like from each and every Origins story and come up with your own idea of how it happened. I dont like the idea of someone taking one idea, putting it on the screen and saying "THIS IS HOW IT REALLY HAPPENED!" (Wich is why i never liked Burtons Batman)
Still I wish they had been brave enough not to rely on Joker as a crutch. You know the one villain everyone is interested in. One of the best things about Batman's Rogue's galary is that most of them are psychologically damaged and I think they can tell engaging stories with that instead of relying on the Joker. Plus you have to remember that most of this weirdos started crawling out of the woodwork as a reaction to Batman.
It would be a good idea to focus on the rise of Black mask and Cobblepot as they are the ones who make most sense when following Gordon's cop story.
Still I wish they had been brave enough not to rely on Joker as a crutch. You know the one villain everyone is interested in. One of the best things about Batman's Rogue's galary is that most of them are psychologically damaged and I think they can tell engaging stories with that instead of relying on the Joker. Plus you have to remember that most of this weirdos started crawling out of the woodwork as a reaction to Batman.
It would be a good idea to focus on the rise of Black mask and Cobblepot as they are the ones who make most sense when following Gordon's cop story.
Good point. It just doesnt make much sense to have a series filled with various famous super-villains but no "Superhero" counter-point. The Joker really isnt that interesting without a Batman to bounce-off, its more of the Dynamic between Batman and the Villains that makes them interesting, not just the characters themselves.
You brought up Black mask and cobblepot as interesting characters for this enviroment wich i agree with. I would probably add Hugo Strange to the list. Who was he before his obsession with Batman warped his mind? Did he once have good sincere intentions or did he in fact play a role in leading some of arkhams lost souls down their dark paths?
Perhaps it was actually a mixture of both and The doctor and his Patient(s) were both influenced by each others? Im thinking, after completley losing faith in the psychiatric method due being confronted with the face of such overwhelming, unapologetic horror which these self-celebrating monsters embody, the once respected Dr Strange falls to their level in a desperate attempt to maintain control and authority. Wich plants the seed for his later obsession and inferiority-complex thowards Batman, the man who did what strange could not: To willingly put his life on the line to fight the unending battle against the same horrors of gotham without ever compromising his own set of morals.
Im just toying with ideas but i do think HS could make a great character as the head of arkham who attempts to study these supervillain-rookies, bringing us insight into the minds and evolution of the rogue gallery before they had the Batman to scapegoat. Think arkham city only some decades earlier. Imagine twisted Sopranos-esque therapy sessions between Strange and Batmans Rogue Gallery. Id watch that for sure granted there is good writing!
A young, still mostly uncorrupted Hush as part of young Bruce's entourage would be pretty cool too. It could serve as a bridge to a feautre batman film with Hush as a central antagonist, altough that is obviously wishful thinking on my part. Im expecting to see Falcone in his prime and a young Harvey Dent to at least make a few appearances though.
http://www.ign.com/articles/2014/03/18/gotham-set-photos-reveal-young-gordon-and-penguin
Two Gotham set images of Gordon and Penguin
(Ben Mckenzie as Jim Gordon)
(Robert Lord Taylor as Cobblepot)
They both look pretty good imo
Nice. I particularly like our young Mr. Cobblepot, y'know, before he gets his bald spot.
Please tell me that they'll make the Penguin do the laugh
Laugh? What laugh? The only Batman villain I associate with a laugh is the Joker.
Laugh? What laugh? The only Batman villain I associate with a laugh is the Joker.
version of the Penguin done by Burgess Meredith has a unique laugh for the penguin
Yeahhhhhh…....no.
I agree. No.
I always thought of Penguin's shtick as being city high society . . . . criminal. Or wannabe, anyway. Preferably not as literally slimy like Danny DeVito played him in Batman Returns, much as I love him. The picture above has him looking suitably dapper.
Burgess Meredith Penguin was the classiest motherfucker
The picture above has him looking suitably dapper.
Dapper or not, isn't the Penguin among one of Batman's shortest villains? He's Like 5' 2" and in most incarnations of the character was usually bullied as a child for his short stature, obesity, and beak-like nose.
That's why I think the actor portraying him in the TV series doesn't fit the Penguin at all….
Maybe he's an Emperor Penguin.
@Rogues':
Dapper or not, isn't the Penguin among one of Batman's shortest villains? He's Like 5' 2" and in most incarnations of the character was usually bullied as a child for his short stature, obesity, and beak-like nose.
That's why I think the actor portraying him in the TV series doesn't fit the Penguin at all….
I can't tell how tall he is in the photo, but he's got the nose. I don't know what they plan to do with him, but hopefully they'll make him fit his role in the Bat-verse suitably.
I can't tell how tall he is in the photo, but he's got the nose. I don't know what they plan to do with him, but hopefully they'll make him fit his role in the Bat-verse suitably.
Robin Taylor is of average to slightly above average height.
I just have the huge gut feeling that in DC's blind rush to compete with Marvel's S.H.E.I.L.D. series, they're fumbling over their own feet and are miscasting characters horribly left and right just to put something out there.
Remember when stick-twig Gal Gadot was cast as Wonder Woman?
Or like Sean Pertwee to play Alfred Pennyworth? He wasn't that great as Inspector Lestrade in Elementary.
It plain doesn't click at all. There's no resemblance, no iconography. It doesn't work for me.
He has a young resemblance, I'd say. Like, if they're trying to do a 'Smallville' equivalent to Gotham and have a young Cobblepot, I think he works quite nicely. Age, stress, and a slump could easily turn the character into the Penguin we all know and love.
Is this because he's not fat and balding?
which he doesn't have to be (right now).
Honestly, I love his look. Sure, he may be fairly tall, but he has the nose and I love those glasses. Let's see if he can act before we start bashing him, okay?
set image of Harvey Bullock played by Donal Logue
@Rogues':
I just have the huge gut feeling that in DC's blind rush to compete with Marvel's S.H.E.I.L.D. series, they're fumbling over their own feet and are miscasting characters horribly left and right just to put something out there.
You know DC has Arrow competing very well against S.H.I.E.L.D right?
This would just be another show.
As for the Penguins actor…he certainly has the nose for it.
http://oyster.ignimgs.com/wordpress/stg.ign.com/2014/03/harvey-bullock-gotham-610x985.jpg
set image of Harvey Bullock played by Donal Logue
Yay, Harvey! And he's got the hat! I didn't expect him to be older than Gordon, though.
I know the whole shtick of the show is that it's young Gordon, but it's so weird to look at him and not see the glasses and the mustache.
What date does this show start? Damn, I really want to watch it lol
Young Selina Kyle for Gotham played by Camren Bicondova
Little orphan Selina living on the streets of Gotham. Good. That should be a fun portion of the show.
The fishnet thighs are a bit much. Facially, she looks like a cat, so I guess that works out.
Do cats usually have eyes far apart like that?
Gordon developing a deep kinship with a 12 yeard old orphaned boy of deceased billionaires seems kind of contrived to me. You know, because this boy is going to be Batman when he grows up and Gordon's going to be the commissioner and it's all very convenient. Gordon is assigned to the boy's case and voila! They strike up an instant friendship!
Don't get me wrong. I've always understood the relationship between Batman and Gordon because they were proffesionals doing their jobs and on a personal level because the two men fought for Gotham on a deeper level. The deep kinship between the boy amd Gordon though? Eh, it's just somethimg that I'll have to see. I know this is a younger Gordon and he might have an easier time connecting with a kid but it reeks of plot convenience.
Truth be told I don't know if that's how it was also done in the comics though, so it could be going off of source material.
I don't find that hard to believe at all. I wouldn't be surprised if Alfred encourages it.
Do cats usually have eyes far apart like that?
Depends on the cat.
Well Batman had to have some reason to trust Gordon…
I recall several attempts in different comics and cartoon where the relationship between young Bruce and Gordon was shown. Namely after the death of Bruce's parents, they'd show things like Gordon giving Bruce his police cap.
I can't imagine most of the show is having too much Bruce.
Yeah, because that's what I was worried about. If this deep kinship between Gordon and Bruce was just some kind of contrived idea to fit more Bruce into the series. If this friendship were to become the main focus of the series because the writers thought it'd be super cool to show how Batman grew up. That would immediately take the focus off of the side characters they could be developing, to concentrate on Batman once more. I don't care about 12 year old Bruce Wayne brooding away in his dark mansion, occasionally to be cheered up by Gordon whenever he drops by for a visit.
A Batman origin/growing up story would be great but later in his 20s(?) when he's travelling the world and learning different martial arts and going on miscellaneous adventures.
http://www.ign.com/articles/2014/04/01/david-s-goyer-interested-in-adapting-green-lantern
Should we be excited or terrified?
We should be groaning. Because Goyer has already proven he can't write a script worth a damn.
Yeah, Nolan saved the movies.
Well, he's got the face. He'll be a very dreamy Riddler.
"The two of them and Wonder Woman" like she's an afterthought.
"I made him real"
"it was the same thing in Watchmen. We really wanted to show it wasn’t just like they thought, like the PG-13 version where everyone just gets up and they’re fine. I really wanted to show the violence is real, people get killed or get hurt, and it’s not fun or funny. And I guess for me, it was like I wanted a hero in Superman that was a real hero and sort of reflected the world we live in now…” "
At this point I bet even Michael Bay would have a better grasp on the character.
It's the same as Watchmen???? Really???
Dear movie makers,
Superman and Wonder Woman are supposed to be bright and hopeful, that's the fucking point. Read Kingdom Come. Make movie about that.
Signed
World
"Mr Snyder, we would like you to make a movie out of this hopeful, colorful, extravagant piece of uplifting escapism!"
"A comic book adaptation, eh? Say what is considered the BEST COMIC EVAR?"
flips through Watchmen
"Hey, how about we…"
I don't even blame Synder for the turd that is Man of Steel. He did a competent job in making it visually appealing (sans the horrible shaky cam and phallic imagery)I blame Warner Brothers for trying to make their heroes all fit the same mold instead of accepting each character has their own story to tell as well as hiring hacks like David Goyer to write the story.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
"And it was so epic to have those two side by side and Wonder Woman"
Well what can you expect from the guy who made Sucker Punch, a supposed proponent for female empowerment told through male gaze.
Superman can still be uplifting. He can lift all the rubble up he helped make fighting in the middle of a densely populated city.
No, but seriously the first movie was grim, humorless, and soapy but we didn't have Superman until the end and by that time everything was a battle. That was just his origin story. The time for them to establish who and what Superman is all about, hope and justice, is the sequel. If they do it right and don't lose too much focus concentrating on everyone else being thrown into this movie.
Clark Kent was well established. Clark Kent and Superman are one in the same but in many ways they're different, but neither shines until both their characters and nuances are well known.
It'd be one thing if MOS went full on dark, that would at least be original and interesting. But it was really a weird mixture of dreary angst and Donner cliches without the balls to go the whole way and really explore any dark issues. Superman killed a guy and…did we get any serious exploration of that? No, he just cuddles Lois and next scene we get some light-hearted comedy routine with a satellite like the day has been saved and everything is all right. Metropolis has already been half-way rebuilt and it doesn't feel at all like half the citizens had been turned into flapjacks. There was no point to the "darkness" other than Warner Bros is obsessed with marketing the Dark Knight feel.
Am i the only one here who absolutely loved the Man Of Steel?
Am i the only one here who absolutely loved the Man Of Steel?
Was it my favorite movie of all time no, but I loved it. We are a rare breed I fear.
Am i the only one here who absolutely loved the Man Of Steel?
Absolutely loved it? Probably. I like it, but it sadly did not like up to my (high) expectations.
I also loved man of steel. I've got to be honest, one of my favourites of the superhero movies that..there are, I suppose. Yeah.