Untitled

[Yoska]

You didn't notice the unprecedented gloomy mood?

No. This is no more gloomy than Alabasta or Skipean were. Actually last chapters could be downright from both of them. There has always been these "now they really are screwed" but it has always worked out and things has gone back to normal.@jackvance:

So if I rob a bank and tell them I'm Al-qaida, then they'll go look for me in the Middle East?

You don't tell them you're from Al-qaida. You're robbing the bank together with Al-qaida and officers presume you are one them, you even affirm their doubts when they ask. Marines them selves began to call them Straw Hat's underlings before Zambai said anything, they didn't think anything else. So the Marines will go after Al-qaida (Straw Hats in this case) but not after the Government's allie and friend, Water 7, which was a victim of Straw Hat's rampage too.

So if I rob a bank and no-one in there recognizes me, that means no-one will ever figure out who I am

If everybody thinks you're not what you really are then probably yes - short of a group hypnosis: if nobody recognizes you during a robbery and after the robbery everybody believes it was done by some other group than yours, then those few who had doubts will probably get blinded by the common believe.

No they don't

Yes they do. I did explained this: If a marine would recognize Pauly and inform this to his higherups, then they would go around and ask: First they will hear Cocoro the hostage and she will negate the claim. She will say she never saw Pauly among her kidnappers, and in the fact, last time she saw Pauly he was utterly focused on extinguish the fire at Water 7 and he was furious to Straw Hats who boldly attacked his boss he loves so much. Then they will hear Iceburg, Pauly's boss and an authority, and he will confirm that Pauly was with him all the day and night, never leaving his side. They will hear his coworkers with the same results. They will hear townspeople who practically idolize Iceburg and Pauly, and yet again the same result occurs. Pauly will have thousands witnessess against a marine or few.

all they will do is take straight action against the people who asaulted Enies Lobby

No they can't if Iceburg will protect them. They couldn't even go against Cobra even though he was hiding critical criminals and his daughter was one them. And this guy has a lot influence, even more than Cobra. And he two major aces: the shipbuilding monopoly and Pluton.

Proof?

There's no proof against either and we can only go by what we have seen in the comic (this is like that criminal by law and morality debate we had here, the comic is the law and what we think could had happened is the morality which isn't up to us to decide ). All we know Spandam got a permission from the old mans, a last chance to acquire the blueprints by his special plan he had and what he didn't explain. I think you said it yourself too (or was it somebody else…): they probably wouldn't approve Spandam's actions if they would know what he was doing.

Got nothing to do with anything.

Motivations. They wouldn't left their dreams behind or abandon people who needs them more then ever, those are the two worst thing you could do in One Piece.

[Ivotas]

@jackvance:

So if I rob a bank and tell them I'm Al-qaida, then they'll go look for me in the Middle East? (obviously they will try to figure who these new straw-hats are, and it's damn easy to figure it out too)

You´re actually negating yourself here you just don´t see it. Because if in your example Al-Qaida is the criminals that need to be tracked down. And in hour story it is the Strawhat pirates that need to be tracked down, not the G-L and FF pirates. Do you actually get the difference at all between Zanbai the member of the Franky Family and Zanbai the Strawhat pirate? Because this is the key to this whole discussion. They´ve labeled themselves as Strawhat pirates and Luffy even said that more guys will come. Who will take them to be anything else then that? It´s not like they claimed to be with Luffy and he said that he has nothing to do with them. If Cocoro and Iceburg do their part then the WG has no reason to investigate on the matter.

@jackvance:

Well if you must know =).. I didn't really see the relevance.. I can agree they will leave Iceburg alone, but not Paulie and everyone who partook in the EL assault.

That´s a cheap shot and you know it jack. I examined in a logic way how it could make sense because such an example already happened in One Piece and all you say you don´t see a relevance in replying to it. Very disappointing.

[Jeltz]

No, he is not negating himself. They wouldn't go after Al-gaida. Otherwise it would be totally riskfree to rob the bank. You just have to claim that you come from Al-qaida or the mafia and they would let you go. They would get you to interreogate you and if you have any interesting information they might let you off the hook but otherwise you end up in jail. The police doens't target the mastermind first. One has to target the followers (in this case Paulie and the Franky Family) first to force information from them. Leaders are usually hard to reach.

EDIT: It's funny how we argue here in this thread at length when we agree on most points.

[Ivotas]

@Jeltz:

No, he is not negating himself. They wouldn't go after Al-gaida. Otherwise it would be totally riskfree to rob the bank. You just have to claim that you come from Al-qaida or the mafia and they would let you go. They would get you to interreogate you and if you have any interesting information they might let you off the hook but otherwise you end up in jail. The police doens't target the mastermind first. One has to target the followers (in this case Paulie and the Franky Family) first to force information from them. Leaders are usually hard to reach.

But do you understand that the whole point is that Zanbai, Paulie etc. have outted themselves as Strawhats. We know they are not, but so far the WG doesn´t know. So if they say catch the rope guy that took down a giant they will pursue the Strawhats because they think that he is part of them. Is that so hard to understand. In the eyes of the WG they are all together. So far they don´t have a reason to think that they are two seperate groups.

And just one thing about the police and don´t targetting the masterminds first. I said it before but I´ll say it again. The police actually lets the small fry go in order to catch the masterminds. The police knows who the small fry is but if they would arrest them then they would just be replaced. That´s how it indeed works. The police observes the small fry for month and hopes to get the masterminds that way.

[Yoska]

@Jeltz:

Therwise it would be totally riskfree to rob the bank. You just have to claim that you come from Al-qaida or the mafia and they would let you go.

…eh. I just explained this but...

This is not what happened here; They did it together with Al-qaida's ranks and the officers of the bank thought all of them belonged to the same group (why would they doubt it?) - they thought all of them are the same even before this was clarified by a member. The poor Marines doesn't know crap about what the readers know.

The FFs and G-Ls has few options:

• The whole bunch will join Straw Hats
• They will go hide by themselves
• They will be arrested and executed
• They will go back home and continue their lives

And the last option is the way Oda has handled these situations before:
A happy ending. Two quarreling sides began to work together for better future - thanks to Luffy.

The two of the middle could make a nice splash pages stories.

The first would changes the story forever and it would go against everything that has happened before. Is it a bad thing, I don't know.

[wintergt]

@Yoska:

You don't tell them you're from Al-qaida. You're robbing the bank together with Al-qaida and officers presume you are one them, you even affirm their doubts when they ask. Marines them selves began to call them Straw Hat's underlings before Zambai said anything, they didn't think anything else. So the Marines will go after Al-qaida (Straw Hats in this case) but not after the Government's allie and friend, Water 7, which was a victim of Straw Hat's rampage too.

Let me repeat myself. Yes, they think GL+FF are straw-hats. But the thing you're somehow missing is that they will try to figure out who these new straw-hats are, with making sketches and descriptions (not too hard to do, we got over 10k witnesses, enough information to make some pretty lively sketches and detailed personal descriptions - and it's not like they were hiding their faces or something) and since these guys are all well-known on W7, and Paulie's even been to EL, they'll figure out pretty soon: the new straw-hats are: Paulie, Galley-La and the FF.

That's the whole point: it's not because you claim to belong to another group, that it magically becomes impossible to figure out who you really are.

So after they've been made, the WG will still think they've fled along with Luffy. That's your point right? Well then, what will happen?:
A) When they investigate W7 (no, not just chat with Iceburg, investigate it themselves) they can possibly find them
B) Someone rats them out to the WG (remember the FF wasn't actually loved by W7, and those debt collectors were after Paulie)
C) Even if A and B don't happen, as soon as they notice that the straw-hats at sea are just 8 people.. well I'll be damned, where did the rest go? Surely not to the most obvious place imaginable?

If everybody thinks you're not what you really are then probably yes - short of a group hypnosis: if nobody recognizes you during a robbery and after the robbery everybody believes it was done by some other group than yours, then those few who had doubts will probably get blinded by the common believe.

Makes you wonder why criminals bother to wear masks in the first place. I mean, they can just show their faces, hell they can even be famous people, all that is required are a few lies and no-one will ever find out who you are!

Yes they do. I did explained this: If a marine would recognize Pauly and inform this to his higherups, then (..)

Snipped the rest. If someone recognizes Paulie, then Paulie has been spotted and they know it was him. And soon after they'll figure out the rest of Galley-La and the FF too.

With the kind of logic you use, no crime would ever get solved. "Ok we got a bazillion witnesses, accurate sketches and descriptions, we got people who recognize him, but whatever, let's just ask his best friend and take his word for it!"

I think you said it yourself too (or was it somebody else…): they probably wouldn't approve Spandam's actions if they would know what he was doing.

Never said that

Motivations. They wouldn't left their dreams behind or abandon people who needs them more then ever, those are the two worst thing you could do in One Piece.

And yet, this still has got nothing to do with the fact that Paulie et all will be recognized for who they are pretty quickly.

Do you actually get the difference at all between Zanbai the member of the Franky Family and Zanbai the Strawhat pirate?

Zanbai is still Zanbai.. when they figure out that it's him who was in on the assault on EL, it'll be "Zanbai the criminal", regardless of whether he belongs to the Franky Family, the straw-hats or the Klu-Klu-Klux clan. If they find him on W7, he won't be safe, whatever he calls himself..

That´s a cheap shot and you know it jack. I examined in a logic way how it could make sense because such an example already happened in One Piece and all you say you don´t see a relevance in replying to it. Very disappointing.

The thing is I already explained this, and you just repeated it. :( I can agree they will let Iceburg alone, but I don't see how this protects Paulie and the others. They are straw-hats now. If Iceburg is gonna be openly protecting straw-hats, he'll be outlawing himself too. Ao Kiji said the WG had been ignoring the straw-hats up until then. After this, they'll be public enemy number one! You can't compare this to Alabasta. I can agree Iceburg may be able to hide them for a short time - but not for long. The straw-hats couldn't stay in Alabasta for very long either, and they were being ignored by the WG back then..

So if they say catch the rope guy that took down a giant they will pursue the Strawhats because they think that he is part of them. Is that so hard to understand. In the eyes of the WG they are all together. So far they don´t have a reason to think that they are two seperate groups.

Hm we're really all just repeating ourselves, but yeah.. GL&FF will be safe, yes, until they figure out Luffy is still just sailing with a crew of 8. The "safe" part you are talking about is a week, at most a month. After that, GL&FF will be hiding in the most obvious place imaginable. On top of that, if a bounty is issued on Paulie's head, those debt collectors might turn him in pretty quickly too, and some spiteful people might rat out the FF.

The police actually lets the small fry go in order to catch the masterminds. The police knows who the small fry is but if they would arrest them then they would just be replaced. That´s how it indeed works. The police observes the small fry for month and hopes to get the masterminds that way.

Come on Ivotas, that doesn't apply here. They only let the small fry walk free in two scenario's:
A) When they don't know who the boss is and they need the small fry to get to the boss - not the case here, they know Luffy already.
B) When they need to collect evidence on the boss to get him prosecuted - not the case here, Luffy is already a wanted man.
There's really no reason NOT to apprehend them.. what's even more, like I said, they will want to apprehend some straw-hats asap to save face in front of the world.

• They will go back home and continue their lives

If Oda wants to do that here, he better twist the plot to get them pardonned somehow, because they WILL be caught now. Maybe in 10 years like with Tom, but probably sooner considering the graveness of their crimes.

[Phlemingo]

With his logic Jack, yes, the OP crimes wouldn't be solved, but isn't that the truth? I mean, pirates aren't caught very often unless other pirates beat them up for most marines. The only exception would be the high, high-ups like Smoker and Ao Kiji maybe. Other than that, I'd have to say justice in One Piece is crapped up.

[wintergt]

@Phlemingo:

With his logic Jack, yes, the OP crimes wouldn't be solved, but isn't that the truth? I mean, pirates aren't caught very often unless other pirates beat them up for most marines.

I think this might have to do with our point of view. We are following pirates 99% of the time, so obviously we'll see mostly pirates fighting pirates - or pirates (the protagonists in the story) escaping from marines.

Another thing is, the ones that get caught probably have no relevance to the story. Why would Oda bore us with showing how marines arrest pirates? XD

The only exception would be the high, high-ups like Smoker and Ao Kiji maybe. Other than that, I'd have to say justice in One Piece is crapped up.

Agreed, but when Spandam said that this attack on EL was an attrocity and an attack on one of the pillars of justice, I took this as Oda's way of saying "this is serious now!" That'd why I'd be disappointed if he were to play it out lightly after this.. like letting Paulie and the others off the hook, that'd be a "oh come on.." moment for me. (unless he has a plot device in store for us to make this work, but not just like the situation is now atleast)

[Ivotas]

@jackvance:

Let me repeat myself. Yes, they think GL+FF are straw-hats. But the thing you're somehow missing is that they will try to figure out who these new straw-hats are, with making sketches and descriptions (not too hard to do, we got over 10k witnesses, enough information to make some pretty lively sketches and detailed personal descriptions - and it's not like they were hiding their faces or something) and since these guys are all well-known on W7, and Paulie's even been to EL, they'll figure out pretty soon: the new straw-hats are: Paulie, Galley-La and the FF.

That's the whole point: it's not because you claim to belong to another group, that it magically becomes impossible to figure out who you really are.

Do you not understand the words I´m writing or why do I have to repeat it constantly? I never said that they won´t figure out who they are. They know Paulie because he was there before. They know who he was and what he was. But from the second he confessed to be a Strawhat they don´t take him as what he was before anymore. From this moment on he is a Strawhat Pirate and not a Galley-La forman anymore. They don´t have to identify who he is. They already know it. All the WG has to do is to track him down. And if they think that he is a Strawhat, tracking him down will happen by chasing the crew. It is just retarded to investigating someone´s identity if you arleady know who he is. They don´t want his resume, they want him. They don´t need a private eye to follow clues. They need hunters that catch the Strawhats for christs sake.

The thing is I already explained this, and you just repeated it. :( I can agree they will let Iceburg alone, but I don't see how this protects Paulie and the others. They are straw-hats now. If Iceburg is gonna be openly protecting straw-hats, he'll be outlawing himself too. Ao Kiji said the WG had been ignoring the straw-hats up until then. After this, they'll be public enemy number one! You can't compare this to Alabasta. I can agree Iceburg may be able to hide them for a short time - but not for long. The straw-hats couldn't stay in Alabasta for very long either, and they were being ignored by the WG back then..

Sorry but if you put it like that then you just prove that you didn´t really read what I´ve said. The very statement I´m refering to is a different scenario by which G-L and FF won´t be considered as Strawhats in the end. What you´ve said just proved that you weren´t paying attention to it, because if you would then you wouldn´t put Paulie and Iceburg in a different boat. Just in case you wonder I´m talking about this post. The statement I´m refering to starts with "Well another point…" and ends with "...never used in a movie." It´s the 4th and 3rd last paragraph in that long post.

Come on Ivotas, that doesn't apply here. They only let the small fry walk free in two scenario's:
A) When they don't know who the boss is and they need the small fry to get to the boss - not the case here, they know Luffy already.
B) When they need to collect evidence on the boss to get him prosecuted - not the case here, Luffy is already a wanted man.
There's really no reason NOT to apprehend them.. what's even more, like I said, they will want to apprehend some straw-hats asap to save face in front of the world.

Of course that doesn´t apply here. That´s what I´m aiming at. It was you who brought this real life argument in the first place and with what I´ve just said I wanted to show you how much bringing such examples into play don´t apply. Thanks because I just wanted you to say that it doesn´t apply, which means that your example of the real world doesn´t apply either.

@jackvance:

(unless he has a plot device in store for us to make this work, but not just like the situation is now atleast)

You see this is what I just don´t get. If Oda has a scenario planned (what I´m sure of) then it will probably be a big thing and won´t be finished in just one volume. Therefore it could be likely that by the end of this arc the entire thing won´t be solved. Maybe it will all be clear to us in a year or so why it all makes sense. But this means that we have to be patient and not yell "unlogic" every day at the Story since we don´t know what´s about to come. Thefore I didn´t understand your "very speculative" statement from yesterday. It´s all what we can do. With all my weird theories I´m just trying to prove one thing and thats that in the end it will make sense so we shouldn´t jump to statements like "I´d be disappointed" already if it might require maybe (just maybe) a long time until we get an answer.

One a side note I just wanted to mention two things:

1. I accidentally just checked the first post again and noticed that in this poll already more people have voted Franky then actually all together placed their votes in the first poll. Talk about how a the place where you are starting a poll can influence the result. :laugh:

2. Is it just me or does it seem that you and I jack, together with Yoska, Octogon and wolfwood are actually making the manga forum these past days? :laugh:

[Ivotas]

This post is deleted!

[wintergt]

@Ivotas:

Do you not understand the words I´m writing or why do I have to repeat it constantly?

This was a reply to Yoska.. I know you agree with me here, but Yoska hasn't caught up yet..

Sorry but if you put it like that then you just prove that you didn´t really read what I´ve said. The very statement I´m refering to is a different scenario by which G-L and FF won´t be considered as Strawhats. You should have understood it if you would have read it instead of overflying it. =(

My apologies.. I've lost track a bit because of Yoska's posts, as he is debating other venues than you are and he mentionned Alabasta so this was a bit stuck in my head. Also, I know this is no excuse, but it's getting really stretched out.. I just tried looking for the post where you explained this and I can't even find it anymore =(

Of course that doesn´t apply here. That´s what I´m aiming at. It was you who brought this real life argument in the first place and with what I´ve just said I wanted to show you how much bringing such examples into play don´t apply. Thanks because I just wanted you to say that it doesn´t apply, which means that your example of the real world doesn´t apply either.

How very tricky of you But I think it does apply, if you just take it that the cops are chasing a criminal organisation which has already been found guilty. In that case they will surely arrest the smaller fry if they get the chance (simply to stop them from committing further crimes, because it is easier, because they can show progress, to interrogate them, etc). They'll only let the small fry walk when they still need to collect evidence to make a prosecutable case against the boss. Not when he's already found guilty. It'd be a bit like saying "oh we found some terrorists, but let's just leave them alone until we catch Bin Laden, he's the head of the snake, we can go for the rest later." If you're going against a criminal organisation whose guilt has been proven, I'd expect the authorities to arrest anyone they can that belongs to it.

2. Is it just me or does it seem that you and I jack, together with Yoska, Octogon and wolfwood are actually making the manga forum these past days? :laugh:

Yeah I noticed this too =) I actually think we scared everyone away with our hefty debates <_<

[Yoska]

I think I still could argue back but I would eventually lose this if I haven't already - like with everything . Yet I won't admit it wouldn't work though, or it couldn't been made working, or it won't happen as I think it's quite possible.

[Ivotas]

@jackvance:

This was a reply to Yoska.. I know you agree with me here, but Yoska hasn't caught up yet..

My bad. There´s nothing more to say in my defense since it is easy as that that I was just mistaking here. No wait, that´s not the proper smiley to use when you actually openly confess that you´ve made a mistake. This one is much better. :proud:

My apologies.. I've lost track a bit because of Yoska's posts, as he is debating other venues than you are and he mentionned Alabasta so this was a bit stuck in my head. Also, I know this is no excuse, but it's getting really stretched out.. I just tried looking for the post where you explained this and I can't even find it anymore =(

Yep, I figured that this might be the case. That´s why I actually edited my last post so in order that you can find the statement I was talking about, just in case you care. hint, hint :laugh:

How very tricky of you .

Well what can I say? That´s how I am. And please don´t try to defend it. Either the methods of the real world apply totally (with both our statements) or the don´t apply totally (with both our statements). Just saying that the one applies and the other not, doesn´t work, because my real world examples applies on your real world example. So if mine doesn´t apply to One Piece, then so doesn´t yours and if your does so does mine. It´s simple as that. Denying it will only leave a negative image on your level of argumentation.

@jackvance:

I actually think we scared everyone away with our hefty debates

Hefty debate? It was just hard talk. It´s not like we are fighting with each other. I actually enjoy this a lot since you always constructively elaborate your thoughts instead of saying "This sucks" or stuff like this. Thanks for that BTW.

[wintergt]

@Yoska:

I think I still could argue back but I would eventually lose this if I haven't already - like with everything. Yet I won't admit it wouldn't work though, or it couldn't been made working, or it won't happen as I think it's quite possible.

Wow unexpected reply :laugh: But anyway, I actually agree that Oda could make it work, but he'd need to introduce some plot-twists to make it believable.. like Dragon showing up, or as usual something us normal folk are incapable of thinking of beforehand. All I was trying to say really was that if Paulie and them just go home now, as things are now, and live happily ever after, that that wouldn't really fly by me..
@Ivotas:

My bad. There´s nothing more to say in my defense since it is easy as that that I was just mistaking here. No wait, that´s not the proper smiley to use when you actually openly confess that you´ve made a mistake. This one is much better. :proud:

Honest mistake, I just made one too, inevitable when the discussion gets this big I guess

Yep, I figured that this might be the case. That´s why I actually edited my last post so in order that you can find the statement I was talking about, just in case you care. hint, hint :laugh:

Hehe sure thing.

Ok I read it, and well, what can I say.. it's a nice theory =). It's not something I would have thought up, but if Oda frames it right this could indeed lead to a happy end for the Galley-La boys and the FF.

Well what can I say? That´s how I am. And please don´t try to defend it. Either the methods of the real world apply totally (with both our statements) or the don´t apply totally (with both our statements). Just saying that the one applies and the other not, doesn´t work, because my real world examples applies on your real world example. So if mine doesn´t apply to One Piece, then so doesn´t yours and if your does so does mine. It´s simple as that. Denying it will only leave a negative image on your level of argumentation.

Lovely obfuscation tactics =) I still stand by my comparison though :P

[Yoska]

@jack:

But anyway, I actually agree that Oda could make it work, but he'd need to introduce some plot-twists to make it believable..

Makes me think what we have been debating over XD. But yeah, I know when to admit a lose. This discussion has become one big pile of words in head, I don't know who said and what.

[Ivotas]

@jackvance:

Wow unexpected reply :laugh: But anyway, I actually agree that Oda could make it work, but he'd need to introduce some plot-twists to make it believable.. like Dragon showing up, or as usual something us normal folk are incapable of thinking of beforehand. All I was trying to say really was that if Paulie and them just go home now, as things are now, and live happily ever after, that that wouldn't really fly by me..

That´s what I´m saying, if something big happens it could make sense. But it could happen that it takes it´s time until we get there. All I´m sayings is that even if it will not look plausible at the first sight, it might happen that by a long thought it all makes sense.
We know Oda, how many times has he made us "never would have guessed that" with his foresight. I´m just trying to say that we shouldn´t judge the whole construct after only seeing half of it. Just imagine that the following scenario:

There´ll come a big plot that takes 50 chapters until all of that makes sense and at the end you will say "Now this all makes sense now". But until you get there you´ll always be disappointed with how everything developed because up til then it doesn´t make much sense. Wouldn´t that be a waste of time? I mean it´s not like Oda isn´t the guy to surprise us with his superior way of storytelling.

Honest mistake, I just made one too, inevitable when the discussion gets this big I guess
Hehe sure thing.

Yep, that´s one of the inevitable consequences.

Ok I read it, and well, what can I say.. it's a nice theory =). It's not something I would have thought up, but if Oda frames it right this could indeed lead to a happy end for the Galley-La boys and the FF.

If you see it from that point of view, it´s nothing that I´ve thought up either since it is based on a similar event that already happened once. And I think that Oda could frame it up right if he is to go that route. The words he puts in the characters mouth´s always do their job on framing the message up right.

Lovely obfuscation tactics I still stand by my comparison though :P

Ok then I´ll stay by mine too because it applies on yours.

@Yoska:

Makes me think what we have been debating over.

I was thinking the exact same thing.

But yeah, I know when to admit a lose. This discussion has become one big pile of words in head, I don't know who said and what.

Well if it helps you I´ll try to summarize it very basic. You, jack, wolfwood, Octogon and I highjacked this thread totally.

First it was wolfwood´s, jacksvance´s and mine debate about what makes a criminal and afterwards you and Octogon joined and we took it one step further by debating the consequences of Zanbai´s confession to be a Strawhat.

So basically if this was a plane from London to LA then jackvance, wolfwood and I highjacked it and made it land in Havanna where you and Octogon joined only to start of and head towards Rio de Janeiro. Everything clear? :laugh:

[wintergt]

I just read null's chapter 379, and Spandam says on page 13:

"But, from our perspective, the "justice" of the old men in the world government is too weak"

.. never noticed that before, but seems like Spandam is indeed going behind the gourousei's backs :O

[Ivotas]

@jackvance:

I just read null's chapter 379, and Spandam says on page 13:

"But, from our perspective, the "justice" of the old men in the world government is too weak"

.. never noticed that before, but seems like Spandam is indeed going behind the gourousei's backs :O

I actually long before mentioned that. That and his statment in the first pages of chapter 365 actually on my anti-Gorousei theory is based.

But Null´s translations again are a bit misleading. If it gets to such important statements you should always check stephens scripts since they are mostly coherent to the translations of our fellow fans who translate the raw chapters weekly.
And in stephens scripts it is Spandam alone who talks questions the competences of the Gorousei. He doesn´t speak in the plural form. For me this is very important because I always saw Lucci is the guy who would take down Spandam if he sees that he isn´t loyal to the WG but just to himself.

Other then that Null´s translation about "absolutism" is a bit hard. I agree that this is what Spandam might be aiming for but it just wouldn´t make much sense to be proclaming it already. Very dangerous and misleading translation. But that´s not the first time that happened. For such important statements, stephens scrips are really gold.

[Yoska]

Kind of makes me think whether the Elders would be actually pleased for Spandam's fall…

[Ivotas]

@Yoska:

Kind of makes me think whether the Elders would be actually pleased for Spandam's fall…

Well they would if they find out about how Spandam really thinks. Oh boy, don´t tell me we´re highjacking this thread towards a third destination. Where´s the plane heading now? Mexico? :laugh:

[wintergt]

Hehe we better be careful or we're off for another 5 pages of essays =)

(btw it's plane.. plain is like 'average'.. I normally disregard spelling errors but this one kind of stings in my eyes, sorry Ivotas)

[Ivotas]

Thanks jack I´m off to edit it. I tend to oversee such things since I tend to write pretty fast and since english isn´t my maternal language such mistake´s happen quite often. I think my most prominent and most repetative mistake is when I want to say "Other than that". I mostly use an "e" than an "a" so it often turns out to be "Other then that". Gotta work on that.

And as far as another 5 page essays are concerned, well I don´t see why we should go down that road since it´s been quite a while when someone said something about the Paulie vs. Franky thing. I fact, in what page was Franky himself not the FF mentioned actually for the last time? :laugh:

[wolfwood]

god dammit are you already done with the argument ?
i go away for one day and then i have 4 pages to read and when i finaly read up on it its overXD

[huron]

franky is near the strenght standard of the strawhats
then he will accept cos his parents abandoned him.
i think he wants find them to revenge

[Yoska]

I don't think he cares. Besides do we even know why they abandoned him? It could have been to save him, or he just was too big nuisance… Straw Hats sure are a magnet for orphans.

[funkyfunkyusopp]

I think Franky will join.. he had an angsty past.. how often does a char get given an angsty past with no intent of having him last more then an arc?

[perpetual]

Kaku For The Next Strawhat Crew Member <33

[Comander Luffy]

My opinion totally random here:

The reason we know Frankys past is because we wont either:A:See him for a LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG time or B:We wont see him after W7 at all.

IF Franky is the new member,we need to know Paulies past soon.
If we dont know his after Eines Lobby,Then he's the new member.

[Buccaneer]

There's a chance we won't even see it, especially if Franky's the new member.

[Comander Luffy]

There's a chance we won't even see it, especially if Franky's the new member.

Paulie seems to importent to not have a past.

[Irresistiblement]

God, I'm really still holding out for them both joining. I love Paulie very much, but Franky is just, well, Franky.

…and I still stand by my stance on him being the next crewmember.

[Strange_One]

@Comander:

Paulie seems to importent to not have a past.

I don't know if this constitutes as a past, but didn't we see little Paulie watching the Puffing Tom when it was first built? It's not much, but the look on his face gives some reason to why he seems to idolize Iceburg.

Haha, I'm coming in on this arguement WAY late.

(Franky, btw.)

[sabret00the]

@Comander:

Paulie seems to importent to not have a past.

to who? he's not related to anything, he has no back story of any significance to do with pirates, he was at water 7 as a kid and remained there, everyone bar chopper but kinda including chopper has a pirating past.

besides you also have to think about versatility, we know from the latest chapter that strength is going to be very important in the battles from now on and taking on Paulie isn't the best tactical move even from a writing point of view, Franky gives the crew many a possibility in terms of story building i.e. can build a ship from nothing but scrap, so that works well with Usopp, he's really into spending money, that works well with Nami, he's strong too so that gives him chemistry with the big three and he's got the other ancient weapon plans so he can keep an eye on robin and make sure she don't go astray, like panic when she disappears and what not. you also have to think that he's quite a natural enemy for Aokiji in that he has the flame thrower and i'm guessing it doesn't matter if he's frozen.

[Rakuen]

@sabret00the:

to who? he's not related to anything, he has no back story of any significance to do with pirates, he was at water 7 as a kid and remained there, everyone bar chopper but kinda including chopper has a pirating past.

iceburg
and… of course Paulie has/had to do with pirates.. He is a Shipwright in W7, boy ;)

I still think Paulie will join.. AND i don't like Franky ôO

[sabret00the]

@Rakuen:

iceburg
and… of course Paulie has/had to do with pirates.. He is a Shipwright in W7, boy ;)

I still think Paulie will join.. AND i don't like Franky ôO

that's called Fandom so let's weight it up

Luffy always wanted to be a pirate
Zoro infinate pirate hunter
Usopp always wanted to be a pirate like his daddy but more so a brave man of the sea
Nami was a pirate hunter/thief
Sanji was apprentice to a famous pirate and always wanted to search the seas
Chopper was an apprentice to someone who's got a good chance of being on Rogers crew and always wanted to be a pirate
Robin was a pirate since age 8

now taking all that into consideration;
Lord of the W7 underground, international criminal who was an apprentice to the guy who made Rogers dream possible

versus

Legitimate tradesman who is on the run from illegal loan sharks who is apprentice to the guy who was apprentice to guy that made Rogers dream possible.

you see just how differently they weight up, Paulie has nothing to offer the strawhats bar his shipwrighting, Franky has an array of things to offer, hence the bulk of what you ignored in my previous post.

[Rakuen]

@sabret00the:

that's called Fandom so let's weight it up

Luffy always wanted to be a pirate
Zoro infinate pirate hunter
Usopp always wanted to be a pirate like his daddy but more so a brave man of the sea
Nami was a pirate hunter/thief
Sanji was apprentice to a famous pirate and always wanted to search the seas
Chopper was an apprentice to someone who's got a good chance of being on Rogers crew and always wanted to be a pirate

these are true, though.. chopper didn't really want to become one…

Robin was a pirate since age 8

this is wring.. she was living undergrounf, but she wasn't actually a pirate

now taking all that into consideration;
Lord of the W7 underground, international criminal who was an apprentice to the guy who made Rogers dream possible

versus

Legitimate tradesman who is on the run from illegal loan sharks who is apprentice to the guy who was apprentice to guy that made Rogers dream possible.

you see just how differently they weight up, Paulie has nothing to offer the strawhats bar his shipwrighting, Franky has an array of things to offer, hence the bulk of what you ignored in my previous post.

and? Lord of the W7 Underground? uh yeah xD wow, I'm impressed.. -.-"

[Solid]

Paulie got nothing more to offer than his shipwright skills? You gotta be kiddin me… First of, he's a master of knots h should be able to do control the sail pretty good. Second of, hes a great fighter which noone can deny now, he has taken at least 100 soldiers now and he tokk like 30 of them in one attack, he may not be as strong as Franky but you can certainly do more intressting team combos with Paulie. Third of, Nami ant gonna be the queen over everybody anymore, because a you may have seen, she becomes kinda shy when Paulie is yelllin at her.. :P Fourth of, his debts.. :D

For me, Franky would be a perfect crewmember if just had a more orginal fightning style.. And if the strawhats get frankys dreamship as their own, then I dont think he will join but if they dont get it from him.. then he probably will..
:wacko:

Sorry for all spelling mistakes and grammar mistakes.

[Kibagami]

Just look at the colour spread in Chapter 377. I'm sure this has been said b4.

Now… notice the guy on the left .... mmhmmm that's Franky alright. Ok now.. notice how it says Mugiwara Pirates vs Cipher Pol No.9. All the characters on the bottom represent CP9 and all the characters on the top represent the Mugiwara. Hmmmm, now is that considered an obvious sign of representation or is it just an ambiguous metaphor telling us that Franky is out of place. It can't get more obvious than this imo. Laugh at me when I'm proven wrong.

[Solid]

I never said he won't join.. :7 Unless they get his dream ship, because then he doesnt have a reason to go with them what we know so far… But I would still prefer to have paulie instead because he has more orginal fightning style.. And more possibilties...

And a bad argument but I still go for it.. :p Soge King aint a mugiwara but he is still there..

[sabret00the]

i presented the reason he has to join them in the above post, not only is he being rescued by the captain, but he's also gonna wanna watch over Robin and make sure she doesn't a/get kidnapped or b/run off anywhere. not to mention he's seen what happens when you provide the pirate king a ship so why not live your life to the fullest upon that ship?

[Solid]

Nah, the strawhats should have trust in their clan, it would be kinda stupid if he joined just to keep an eye over her.

I would love to see Franky and Chopper(small form) messin with eachother, they would be so cute together.. XD

[sabret00the]

@Solid:

Nah, the strawhats should have trust in their clan, it would be kinda stupid if he joined just to keep an eye over her.

I would love to see Franky and Chopper(small form) messin with eachother, they would be so cute together.. XD

they do? you forgetting that since Robin joined Zoro never ever trusted her?

[Solid]

Nope I havnt forgot that. But Zoro sure does trust her now, or atleast he hasnt shown a sign that he doesnt trust her fater what happend in Skypea.

[Buccaneer]

He questioned her intentions, but he helped her in Skypiea like he'd help any other. He's suspicious, but he never made a big thing out of it. He didn't go out of his way with his distrust or anything. And of course now all doubts will be erased, so no one will keep an eye on her for the good of the crew.

[sabret00the]

also to add to the why it's gonna be franky debate, if he stays on water7 it will endanger his FF, where as if he's on the move away from them all they'll be safer as the WG's efforts are directed in finding him and tracking him down.

[Ajiro]

Uh hi… quick FRANKY related question, I'm not at water 7 yet, but I've been hearing so much about Franky, seen pictures, and even that "bud-light" movie someone about him. I was thinking, man that is one COOL dood :P Then I was reading on the K|F boards, there was a post about franky when someone posted this
"My predictions were that he built or paid for the leviathan boat/weapon with the money stolen from the Mugiwara. So they will claim part of it and use it to sail the Grand Line. The Grand Line that needs a 'special' boat to sail on. Somthing made my a crazed, homosexual,speedo wearing surfer….with metal and large guns. You know."
WTF? No one was correcting him either... but then I saw this picture (http://captain-usopp.net/host/lock-bastion/opfanart/frankysisters.jpg). So whats the deal? Not that I have anything against gays or anything, but is Franky really gay?

[Buccaneer]

…?
Well, I'm sure that person is just a Franky hater using "homosexual" to insult him. His sexual preference hasn't been implied at all. That pic makes him look straight, but it was fan made, he never touches anyone unless he means to hurt them.

[Kalei]

@Ajiro:

Uh hi… quick FRANKY related question, I'm not at water 7 yet, but I've been hearing so much about Franky, seen pictures, and even that "bud-light" movie someone about him. I was thinking, man that is one COOL dood :P Then I was reading on the K|F boards, there was a post about franky when someone posted this
"My predictions were that he built or paid for the leviathan boat/weapon with the money stolen from the Mugiwara. So they will claim part of it and use it to sail the Grand Line. The Grand Line that needs a 'special' boat to sail on. Somthing made my a crazed, homosexual,speedo wearing surfer….with metal and large guns. You know."
WTF? No one was correcting him either... but then I saw this picture (http://captain-usopp.net/host/lock-bastion/opfanart/frankysisters.jpg). So whats the deal? Not that I have anything against gays or anything, but is Franky really gay?

Franky aint gay. And I made that Bud Light video and drew that fanart you posted actually xD;;;;;

[darktravis]

@Kalei:

Franky aint gay. And I made that Bud Light video and drew that fanart you posted actually xD;;;;;

Damn straight, he's all man

And there's nothing Kalei can't do when it's Franky-related (chapel paintings should next right?)

[sabret00the]

@Kalei:

Franky aint gay. And I made that Bud Light video and drew that fanart you posted actually xD;;;;;

nice work, i thought it was e1n, that's pretty shweet