Chapter 730: "3 Cards"

RobZilla

Man it's incredible how different almost identical events can be viewed.

Sanji Vs. Dofla - Kick blocked - Sanji hit by strong attack - Sanji Recovers - Sanji attacks - ambiguous comment about attacks strength - Hax power win
Zoro Vs. Isshou - Slash blocked - Zoro hit by strong attack - Zoro Recovers - Zoro attacks - ambiguous comment about attacks strength - Fight abandoned

So essentially the only difference between the fights is Doffy using an unknown, esoteric ability that was able to immobilise a yonko commander, to win the fight. A similar route which could of course have been taken by Fuji, had the fight not been stopped.

Yet somehow the reactions to these two similar situations are very different from the same people.

Somehow Sanji is a weakling who already seriously needs a power up like the mera mera, while Zoro is apparently admiral level and had Fujitora on the ropes.

Delusions.

Anyway, I'm subscribing to the idea that some people have floated about Momo's importance being his bloodline possibly being of the Shogun of Wano. I can't see it having anything to do with him having eaten the artifical DF since 1) Jora was surprised by his transformation when on a mission to abduct him and 2) Dofla's men were already messing with Momo and Kinemon at the time of their initial journey to Zou, before Momo was anywhere near eating the ADF.

Kinemon being Momo's adoptive father or simply pretending to be such to give Momo some anonymity is a possibility.

My personal extension on this idea is that there has been a recent coup in Wano, leading to the new regime wishing to eliminate all of the former royal bloodline for their own security. Kinemon takes Momo and flees with 2 other loyal samurai, wishing to escape to Zou to save Momo from the purge. Since Wano is such an isolated country, Kinemon would be able to pass off Momo as his son easily to the vast majority of outsiders, but Doffy, with all his connections in the NW knows exactly who Momo really is, and wants to use him as a bargaining chip.

Caesar Clown

@King:

You read that wrong. My point is that saying how much Fujitora is stronger than Zoro is irrelevant because of his ridiculously powerful ability. There's no assumptions there. Stop thinking on power levels.

You're the one who's overthinking it. This has nothing to do with power levels. You're making silly assumptions and spewing nonsense. You can't tell us how "ridiculously powerful" Fujitora's DF is if you know nothing about it. You just sound like an over obsessive Fujitora fan.

King Cannon

@Caesar:

You're the one who's overthinking it. This has nothing to do with power levels. You're making silly assumptions and spewing nonsense. You can't tell us how "ridiculously powerful" Fujitora's DF is if you know nothing about it. You just sound like an over obsessive Fujitora fan.

How do we know nothing about it?

It involves gravity manipulation. He can extend this manipulation up to outer space.

Sereques

@King:

Zoro could cut it, but that wouldn't stop the impact.

Even when Law and Dofla cut that one meteor, it still caused major destruction. Law himself had to run away from one when his ability allows him to cut anything.

An attack that destroys everything but the intended target is a silly attack. You can't compare that to an attack that seems to work every time and causes damage. The gravity attack is not just a basic attack like you seem to imply, it's likely one of his strong and dependable attacks.

idoflamingo

@DARK_RITUAL:

Seeing people saying Zoro can beat or stand a chance against an Admiral pisses me off
1- not long ago Oda released a one piece movie which an Ex-Admiral was the opponent
2- Luffy barely beat him
3- Oda went out of his way to state that -Luffy beat an Admiral because he was an Ex-Admiral and was old..

And people magically think Oda will make Zoro defeat or be as strong as a current Admiral? Like seriously are people this dumb?

I watched a review and "Forneverworld" thinks that Zoro is Admiral level because he got up.. Fujitora used a move so simple and effortless to take Zoro off his feet and make him bleed from the mouth. Imagine that man actually wanting to kill someone and using the max of his abilities which we haven't even seen, but in the end Fujitora will always come out on top. Tbh Doflamingo should have a tea party with big Mom while Zoro, Luffy and Kinemon fight Fujitora with the end being that Fujitora is victorious.

King Cannon

@Shadowgreed:

caused destruction that doesn't affect Zoro, so he still holds his own even If Fujitora trows meteors at him

@Sereques:

An attack that destroys everything but the intended target is a silly attack. You can't compare that to an attack that seems to work every time and causes damage. The gravity attack is not just a basic attack like you seem to imply, it's likely one of his strong and dependable attacks.

So you guys think Zoro could cut a bunch of consecutive meteors that could be aimed at different spots and somehow dodge all the collateral damage?

You know what, that question is just silly. I'm not interested in the direction this discussion is going.

RobZilla

@Sereques:

An attack that destroys everything but the intended target is a silly attack. You can't compare that to an attack that seems to work every time and causes damage. The gravity attack is not just a basic attack like you seem to imply, it's likely one of his strong and dependable attacks.

He used the gravity attack against some fodder in the casino and against Zoro when clearly not fighting seriously due to being in a crowded area.

He used the meteor attack against a renegade shichibukai on a nigh deserted island when he didn't care how much destruction he caused, as seen when Doffy nearly got hit too.

The meteor attack is clearly a bigger trump card, while the gravity attack is a more reliable, but much weaker move.

Caesar Clown

@King:

How do we know nothing about it? It involves gravity manipulation. He can extend this manipulation up to outer space.

And that's the only thing we've ever seen him do with it along with the shields. We know nothing about the limits of his ability. You're theorizing about how strong it is, how much stronger it is than another character and acting as if it's indisputable fact.

RobZilla

@Caesar:

And that's the only thing we've ever seen him do with it along with the shields. We know nothing about the limits of his ability. You're theorizing about how strong it is, how much stronger it is than another character and acting as if it's indisputable fact.

The guy can pull down goddamn meteors from outer space, it's clearly a ridiculously strong ability with a large area of influence. That's not theorising, that's just obvious.

ICEMAN

@idoflamingo:

I watched a review and "Forneverworld" thinks that Zoro is Admiral level because he got up.. Fujitora used a move so simple and effortless to take Zoro off his feet and make him bleed from the mouth. Imagine that man actually wanting to kill someone and using the max of his abilities which we haven't even seen, but in the end Fujitora will always come out on top. Tbh Doflamingo should have a tea party with big Mom while Zoro, Luffy and Kinemon fight Fujitora with the end being that Fujitora is victorious.

Don't get carried away. Both fighters didn't get the chance to go all out. The video didn't say admiral level but vice admiral or above. No one's doubting Fujitora's strength. He's a strong admiral that would make even Doflamingo shit in his pants.

King Cannon

@Caesar:

And that's the only thing we've ever seen him do with it along with the shields. We know nothing about the limits of his ability. You're theorizing about how strong it is, how much stronger it is than another character and acting as if it's indisputable fact.

I just said Fujitora is a very tough opponent regardless of the opposition. I'm not talking about Zoro especifically.

It's stupid to deny that his ability isn't overpowered. You don't have to be a fanboy to see that.

RedDogAkainu

@ICEMAN:

Don't get carried away. Both fighters didn't get the chance to go all out. The video didn't say admiral level but vice admiral or above. No one's doubting Fujitora's strength. He a strong admiral that would make even Doflamingo shit in his pants.

Hasn't that already happened? (at Green Bit) :P

wolfwood

@RobZilla:

Man it's incredible how different almost identical events can be viewed.

Sanji Vs. Dofla - Kick blocked - Sanji hit by strong attack - Sanji Recovers - Sanji attacks - ambiguous comment about attacks strength - Hax power win

Zoro Vs. Isshou - Slash blocked - Zoro hit by strong attack - Zoro Recovers - Zoro attacks - ambiguous comment about attacks strength - Fight abandoned

So essentially the only difference between the fights is Doffy using an unknown, esoteric ability that was able to immobilise a yonko commander, to win the fight. A similar route which could of course have been taken by Fuji, had the fight not been stopped.

Yet somehow the reactions to these two similar situations are very different from the same people.

Somehow Sanji is a weakling who already seriously needs a power up like the mera mera, while Zoro is apparently admiral level and had Fujitora on the ropes.

Delusions.

A bright shining light in the complete darkness of this thread

Buggy D. Clown

is the powermanga version with C3's script out yet?

LaFF AttacK

@valiantt:

A-Are you sure? This is super intense. I mean, any time any of the Strawhats could get killed for good! Gee willikers I'm on the edge of my seat in suspense. bites nails

Did you just say it's super intense and you're on the edge of your seat because fictional characters will die? Wow.. Just wow.. Is there a word to describe how pathetic this is?

Shadowgreed

@LaFF:

Did you just say it's super intense and you're on the edge of your seat because fictional characters will die? Wow.. Just wow.. Is there a word to describe how pathetic this is?

Is called sarcasm

LaFF AttacK

@RedDogAkainu:

Hasn't that already happened? (at Green Bit) :P

Nah, he just didn't expect him to attack him, he was Pissed, he was like "the fuck you think you're doing?"

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

@Shadowgreed:

Is called sarcasm

I know. I've had a far share of Sarcasm. I like mine. Maybe he might misunderstand me. Never liked him.

Caesar Clown

@RobZilla:

The guy can pull down goddamn meteors from outer space, it's clearly a ridiculously strong ability with a large area of influence. That's not theorising, that's just obvious.

The only thing that mattered there was the range of his gravity. There are several people in One Piece who have great range too. Your point? @King:

I just said Fujitora is a very tough opponent regardless of the opposition. I'm not talking about Zoro especifically. It's stupid to deny that his ability isn't overpowered. You don't have to be a fanboy to see that.

Overpowered is a subjective term. How overpowered you think it is doesn't matter. It has nothing to do with how many people in the One Piece world can counter it. I've also seen you debating about Zoro and Fujitora's power difference all day. It's logical for everyone to assume you were talking about Zoro.

idoflamingo

@ICEMAN:

Don't get carried away. Both fighters didn't get the chance to go all out. The video didn't say admiral level but vice admiral or above. No one's doubting Fujitora's strength. He's a strong admiral that would make even Doflamingo shit in his pants.

As much as I hate the fact that Doflamingo could shit his pants… Zoro would lose mid diff.

Ace 4

@King:

I just said Fujitora is a very tough opponent regardless of the opposition. I'm not talking about Zoro especifically.

It's stupid to deny that his ability isn't overpowered. You don't have to be a fanboy to see that.

Gravity isn't overpowered, its actually the weakest force out of the 4 forces. Electromagnetism, which Kidd's ability involve, is the second strongest.

RobZilla

@wolfwood:

A bright shining light in the complete darkness of this thread

I do try. Cheers wolfwood

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

@•Ace•:

Gravity isn't overpowered, its actually the weakest force out of the 4 forces. Electromagnetism, which Kidd's ability involve, is the second strongest.

Yeah but Fuji's ability seems to be increasing and decreasing the gravitational pull…so it doesn't really matter how strong gravity normally is.

--- Update From New Post Merge ---

@Caesar:

The only thing that mattered there was the range of his gravity. There are several people in One Piece who have great range too. Your point? Overpowered is a subjective term. How overpowered you think it is doesn't matter. It has nothing to do with how many people in the One Piece world can counter it. I've also seen you debating about Zoro and Fujitora's power difference all day. It's logical for everyone to assume you were talking about Zoro.

Eh and that it can also pull strongly enough to send a rock that size plummeting to earth. It's strength and range are only factors that matter when assessing an ability like this…and they're both clearly oustanding.

King Cannon

@•Ace•:

Gravity isn't overpowered, its actually the weakest force out of the 4 forces. Electromagnetism, which Kidd's ability involve, is the second strongest.

Does gravity have a limit or are you just talking about Earth's gravity?

DerekJeter

Zorro shouldve cut those rails and let Luffy escape.

ArmamentHero

Sometimes the amount of crap that oozes from these discussions eat away at my brain like a parasite.

wolfwood

Odds are pretty huge that Zoro can't cut seastone, seeing as how it's the hardest substance in the world

RedDogAkainu

@ArmamentHero:

Sometimes the amount of crap that oozes from these discussions eat away at my brain like a parasite.

Sh*t Happens :) Either have to eradicate it or ignore it.

ArmamentHero

@RedDogAkainu:

Sh*t Happens :) Either have to eradicate it or ignore it.

I know this :P 16

ICEMAN

@wolfwood:

Odds are pretty huge that Zoro can't cut seastone, seeing as how it's the hardest substance in the world

I'm not sure If It was only on the anime but, didn't Law cut those sea stone chains with his sword in punk hazard?

Ace 4

@King:

Does gravity have a limit or are you just talking about Earth's gravity?

Electromagnetism is stronger in general. I understand Fuji can increase his gravitational force, but the same can be done with electromagnetism.

King Cannon

@ICEMAN:

I'm not sure If It was only on the anime but, didn't Law cut those sea stone chains with his sword in punk hazard?

His ability allows him to do that.

RedDogAkainu

@•Ace•:

Electromagnetism is stronger in general. I understand Fuji can increase his gravitational force, but the same can be done with electromagnetism.

Take note though that electromagnetism only acts upon ferrous metals. Whereas gravity can act on all objects

TiAn

It would be cool if the magnetic powers come from the katana, just like Spandam's elephant sword. Instead the usual strong guy with devil fruit we could have a strong admiral with no powers but using a katana witha a devil fruit..

Kingdomkey

@Buggy:

is the powermanga version with C3's script out yet?

No not yet, it probably will be in the next two days since the chapter came out early.

labmate

@Kingdomkey:

No not yet, it probably will be in the next two days since the chapter came out early.

C3 said he'd have his script out today, so at least we can read the good translation one way or another.

Maju

@•Ace•:

Gravity isn't overpowered, its actually the weakest force out of the 4 forces. Electromagnetism, which Kidd's ability involve, is the second strongest.

the entire point of both fruits is to increase said forces..so it doesn't really matter how stronger they are in real life,since they can both makes it 100 times stronger in 1 second.

LaFF AttacK

@King:

"We, the Strawhats, are going to take Doflamingo down."

I don't see the problem here.

This means Luffy probably won't Solo Doflamingo.

Ace 4

@RedDogAkainu:

Take note though that electromagnetism only acts upon ferrous metals. Whereas gravity can act on all objects

(I got confused for a sec) Yeah, you're right.

King Cannon

@LaFF:

This means Luffy probably won't Solo Doflamingo.

I edited my post to something more sensical. Read again.

RobZilla

Luffy needing to run around and find the exit will probably lead to an encounter with Burgess/Barto where Barto will take over Luffy's mission to win the Mera Mera no Mi as well. Got to love some kairoseki railings.

ArmamentHero

Knowing Luffy, he'll probably try to go over the Colosseum lol

idoflamingo

@LaFF:

This means Luffy probably won't Solo Doflamingo.

Hallelujah. Thank you.

AtARU

@RobZilla:

Man it's incredible how different almost identical events can be viewed.

Sanji Vs. Dofla - Kick blocked - Sanji hit by strong attack - Sanji Recovers - Sanji attacks - ambiguous comment about attacks strength - Hax power win

Zoro Vs. Isshou - Slash blocked - Zoro hit by strong attack - Zoro Recovers - Zoro attacks - ambiguous comment about attacks strength - Fight abandoned

Keep in mind I like Zoro and Sanji and I'm not jumping on the Zoro is admiral level bandwagon. I'm not saying Sanji is a weakling and Zoro is overpowered but the difference in treatment from Oda has been staggering:

Zoro's fight was abandoned wheareas Sanji lost, period. I don't think people were expecting him to win vs Doffy but at least cause more trouble. He's even on a losing streak now if you count the Violet encounter.

Moreover, Sanji went full DJ against Doffy which did nothing. Zoro, on the other hand, actually brute-forced his way out of Fujitora's gravity AND made him back away/take a knee with ONLY one sword.

Sanji's fight made him look like he was about to die (we have to show Doffy has the bad guy I know…), Zoro's fight seemed like a small skirmish between two beasts.

I think we have yet to see both Sanji and Zoro go all out but, at least since FI (Zoro even beat Hody there, remember?), you have to admit that, in comparison, Sanji has certainly been getting the short end of the stick.

Maju

@TiAn:

It would be cool if the magnetic powers come from the katana, just like Spandam's elephant sword. Instead the usual strong guy with devil fruit we could have a strong admiral with no powers but using a katana witha a devil fruit..

you need a mind to use a devil fruit,zoans do give a mind to an object,paramisha and logia don't.

also..why are people so baffled by the fact that fujitora use his power in combo with his sword?didn't whitebeard use his power with his bisento and nobody had any problem with that?

RedDogAkainu

@AtARU:

Keep in mind I like Zoro and Sanji and I'm not jumping on the Zoro is admiral level bandwagon. I'm not saying Sanji is a weakling and Zoro is overpowered but the difference in treatment from Oda has been staggering:

Zoro's fight was abandoned wheareas Sanji lost, period. I don't think people were expecting him to win vs Doffy but at least cause more trouble. He's even on a losing streak now if you count the Violet encounter.
Moreover, Sanji went full DJ against Doffy which did nothing. Zoro, on the other hand, actually brute-forced his way out of Fujitora's gravity AND made him back away/take a knee with ONLY one sword.

Sanji's fight made him look like he was about to die (we have to show Doffy has the bad guy I know…), Zoro's fight seemed like a small skirmish between two beasts. I think we have yet to see both Sanji and Zoro go all out but, at least since FI (Zoro even beat Hody there, remember?), you have to admit that, in comparison, Sanji has certainly been getting the short end of the stick.

I totally agree. I don't believe that Sanji just has Diable, he has to have improved more.
Also Zoro still hasn't had any problems (fighting wise) since the time skip so he's gonna have to meet his match soon.

Enzeru

@idoflamingo:

I watched a review and "Forneverworld"

And that's your first mistake. That Naruto fanboy doesn't know shit.

idoflamingo

@Enzeru:

And that's your first mistake. That Naruto fanboy doesn't know shit.

Naruto sucks yes. I didn't make a mistake, I was adding him to the retards of this forum thinking Zoro has a chance against Fujitora.

RobZilla

@AtARU:

Keep in mind I like Zoro and Sanji and I'm not jumping on the Zoro is admiral level bandwagon. I'm not saying Sanji is a weakling and Zoro is overpowered but the difference in treatment from Oda has been staggering:

Zoro's fight was abandoned wheareas Sanji lost, period. I don't think people were expecting him to win vs Doffy but at least cause more trouble. He's even on a losing streak now if you count the Violet encounter.
Moreover, Sanji went full DJ against Doffy which did nothing. Zoro, on the other hand, actually brute-forced his way out of Fujitora's gravity AND made him back away/take a knee with ONLY one sword.

Sanji's fight made him look like he was about to die (we have to show Doffy has the bad guy I know…), Zoro's fight seemed like a small skirmish between two beasts. I think we have yet to see both Sanji and Zoro go all out but, at least since FI (Zoro even beat Hody there, remember?), you have to admit that, in comparison, Sanji has certainly been getting the short end of the stick.

Why would the Violet situation count? He allowed himself to be beaten and didn't fight back.

Doffy seemed to use some kind of trick with his cloak to nullify DJ, it's not like he just tanked it. Also I doubt DJ is Sanji's ultimate technique anymore.

Zoro was smashed down with Fuji's gravity, there's no indication that he then continued pressing Zoro with it. I highly doubt he brute-forced his way out of a gravitational pull that can pull down meteors. Then he hit him with a flying slash attack, seemingly catching Fuji by surprise, he probably thought he'd dealt with Zoro already with his gravity attack.

Also there's kind of a big difference in the fact that Doffy was clearly shooting to kill when fighting Sanji. Fujitora was fighting Zoro seemingly under protest, and in a crowded area were he wouldn't be able to use his full power.

Enzeru

@AtARU:

Keep in mind I like Zoro and Sanji and I'm not jumping on the Zoro is admiral level bandwagon. I'm not saying Sanji is a weakling and Zoro is overpowered but the difference in treatment from Oda has been staggering:

Zoro's fight was abandoned wheareas Sanji lost, period. I don't think people were expecting him to win vs Doffy but at least cause more trouble. He's even on a losing streak now if you count the Violet encounter.

Moreover, Sanji went full DJ against Doffy which did nothing. Zoro, on the other hand, actually brute-forced his way out of Fujitora's gravity AND made him back away/take a knee with ONLY one sword.

Sanji's fight made him look like he was about to die (we have to show Doffy has the bad guy I know…), Zoro's fight seemed like a small skirmish between two beasts.

I think we have yet to see both Sanji and Zoro go all out but, at least since FI (Zoro even beat Hody there, remember?), you have to admit that, in comparison, Sanji has certainly been getting the short end of the stick.

While you're not wrong about some stuff you mention there, you also have to keep in mind what would've happened, had Zoro and Isshou continued to fight- namely something similar to the DD/Sanji fight. At least in my opinion.

Roronoa Zacho

@Adam:

The fact that the rank of somebody doesn't point out his individual power level.

He was still a Vice-Admiral, though, new or not. And it's not the first case of marines that are weak compared to other people sharing rank with them, such as Captain Nezumi, or Commodore Purin Purin.

Well, I have to point out that there are different stages for ranks among the marines. Purin Purin was a commodore (just like Smoker was) BUT he belonged to the 77th marine unit (just like Nezumi was unit 16). He wasn't a commodore of the MHQ. Smoker WAS a commodore of MHQ. Remember those marine soldiers right after the war? One said:"One day I'll join the MHQ!" This doesn't make any sense if he is already a marine. So, there are 2 types of rank Systems: The MHQ on GL and the other Units from the Blues. I hope I could help you. In case of Bastille and Maynard I just can say that Bastille seems to be a VA for longer time than Maynard. So he has more experience and strength if you wanna put it like that.

RedDogAkainu

The burning question in my mind though is: Will we see DD's eyes under those sunglasses in this arc?