Chapter 535 "Buddy" Discussion

[Kabi]

@Ivotas:

Erm no, it wouldn't. One Piece isn't like Dragonball where Piccolo <vegeta<frieza<cell<buu applies.="" in="" op="" it's="" rather="" a="" scissors,="" rock,="" paper="" way.="" yes,="" enel,="" rucchi="" and="" moria="" could="" defeat="" crocodile.="" but="" the="" point="" is,="" he="" them="" also.="" that's="" what="" makes="" more="" interesting,="" not="" so="" clear.="" is="" better="" martial="" arts="" that="" doesn't="" help="" much="" if="" logias="" turn="" into="" their="" elements.="" at="" same="" time="" elemental="" power="" mean="" too="" quick="" for="" on.<br="">That said I agree that water would be a big ace up your sleeve against Crocodile. But still, he isn't that bad of a fighter to easily go down because of that. He'd still deliver a good fight and could even emerge victorious. It really isn't that simple as in Dragonball.</vegeta<frieza<cell<buu>

i must disagre with something

Crocodile being sand is "rock dust" and that is pretty immune to electricity
Crocodile probably would be able to hit touch and dry enel while endure enel attacks without problem
Then again lucci beating crocodile only if he get a way to tell his weakness
and enel raep lucci no chance
enel can beat up moria too

[Ryuksgelus]

@Ivotas:

By that logic nobody deserves to be at the deepest level because being imprisoned they are not such a serious threat as those pirates who are still freely roaming around in the world. This makes the deepest level of Impel Down a permanent empty house in expectence for every criminal who's not captured yet, while the big guns who commited serious crimes are on the higher low security levels. Yeah right?

No. Think the point the guy was trying to make is that Croc was a pirate with only an 81 million bounty who would have had it increased to at least 162 because of his actions in Alabasta. Luffy has accomplished a lot since Alabasta. Taking out thousands of their marines, taking out a very powerful government operative, surviving a buster call, and protects two people(Robin&Franky) with actual knowledge of ancient weapons.

He should clearly be seen as the greater threat so it doesn't make much sense for Luffy to be only worthy of being a level 5 prisoner. Yet Croc drops 2 levels to level 6 accomplishing less, because of simply attempting to gain a weapon. Especially when Croc's significance is downplayed by larger figures like Ao Kiji&Moria. He could be down there to simply punish him for his insolence but to say they still view him as more dangerous as Luffy(when you include things not refleced in his bounty) seems absurd.

[Stylishman]

@Kabi:

i must disagre with something

Crocodile being sand is "rock dust" and that is pretty immune to electricity
Crocodile probably would be able to hit touch and dry enel while endure enel attacks without problem
Then again lucci beating crocodile only if he get a way to tell his weakness
and enel raep lucci no chance
enel can beat up moria too

Thing is, enel has power outside of his strong devil fruit, his mantra.
Thats the reaosn why Luffy found it so hard to win despite being rubber.

PURE speculation, but the big players in this part of the story would probably have a strategy for fighting logias by now, or at least they should. They all seem to have a weakness based on common sense. I wouldnt be very surprised if we see people figuring out a logias weakness through methods other than luck like luffy did

[Ivotas]

@Stylishman:

:) I appreciate that this isnt the same as dragonball, and things arent that straightforward. But honestly do you believe that bit about Croc delivering a good fight if a powerful-by-todays-standards person knew about the water thing? His skills aside from his devil fruit are hopelessly sub-par compared to the calibur of fighter we're seeing nowadays.

I agree that if his DF ability would be completely negated he probably wouldn't win against somebody like Rucchi because he is the far superior martial artist. But as far as Enel and Moria are concerned I don't think that it would be an instawin even in this situation. Both have not displayed to have higher basic combat skills then Crocodile, so yeah, with todays standards Crocodile still isn't by far outclassed.

Obviously, he is a strong pirate with a logia fruit, and back to the original point.. why is Crocodile being seen as worthy of a deeper ID level than luffy? Its because of Luffy that Robin is free and one of your main points for Crocs threat is BECAUSE he had Robin with him. Without Robin, no pluton. Luffy has Robin at the moment does he not? Doesn't that scale Luffy up to be that much more of a threat than Crocodile?

Well Crocodile's most dangerous quality is his intelligence. I mean seriously, of the antagonists we've seen so far, he by far outclasses the rest in terms of planning skills and manipulation. He is a mastermind. And this is also a dangerous quality. I mean Nico Robin isn't feared because of her strenght but because of her ability to read ancient texts. So a guy like Crocodile that could use his intellect to manipulate Arabasta for years is also another different quality from strength. On that field Luffy is far superior. Which is actually why he gets treated so lightly still since his recklessness obviously is a result of a lack of intelligence.

Furthermore lets not forget that Dragon was considered dangerous because of his ideals 6 years ago already. But then it was said that so far he is not a threat but that because of those ideals he could become a serious threat if he gets enough support, which in fact seems to have happened. So yeah, the skill to play high quality mindgames is actually something that could become a huge problem at some point. And Crocodile can do exactly that (so far without compare as I stated above). So he actually has a unique quality that justifies for him to be treated with highest care. And that's all without his battle power. If you combine the two he's even more dangerous.

@Ryuksgelus:

No. Think the point the guy was trying to make is that Croc was a pirate with only an 81 million bounty who would have had it increased to at least 162 because of his actions in Alabasta. Luffy has accomplished a lot since Alabasta. Taking out thousands of their marines, taking out a very powerful government operative, surviving a buster call, and protects two people(Robin&Franky) with actual knowledge of ancient weapons.

He should clearly be seen as the greater threat so it doesn't make much sense for Luffy to be only worthy of being a level 5 prisoner. Yet Croc drops 2 levels to level 6 accomplishing less, because of simply attempting to gain a weapon. Especially when Croc's significance is downplayed by larger figures like Ao Kiji&Moria. He could be down there to simply punish him for his insolence but to say they still view him as more dangerous as Luffy(when you include things not refleced in his bounty) seems absurd.

I understand your point. But you need to understand that the WG has a very biased look on things, which is also a reason why Luffy albeit his high bounty and everything he accomplished still gets treated lightly. Crocodile on the other hand was a Shichibukai a group the WG themselves created. So in the WG's eyes Crocodile is worse for the simple fact that he used their trust to doublecross them while Luffy was an enemy the entire time. What is really important on this matter is that we're talking about greedy politians here and that they exactly think like that. It's just like in real life where you can get for years in prison for robbin a bank while somebody that rapes and kills children often can get away with half a year psychiatric care. It's because of those selfish interests of those who have power, who don't give a rats ass for the little mans pain.

And this is the exact same matter here. I definitely agree that with all the ruckuss Luffy caused he deserves more attention. But that's our view. The greedy politians care more for the bad publicity that was Crocodiles betrayal, which is even more serious if you consider how serious they take the entire Three Great Powers deal.

[Stylishman]

@Ryuksgelus:

No. Think the point the guy was trying to make is that Croc was a pirate with only an 81 million bounty who would have had it increased to at least 162 because of his actions in Alabasta. Luffy has accomplished a lot since Alabasta. Taking out thousands of their marines, taking out a very powerful government operative, surviving a buster call, and protects two people(Robin&Franky) with actual knowledge of ancient weapons.

He should clearly be seen as the greater threat so it doesn't make much sense for Luffy to be only worthy of being a level 5 prisoner. Yet Croc drops 2 levels to level 6 accomplishing less, because of simply attempting to gain a weapon. Especially when Croc's significance is downplayed by larger figures like Ao Kiji&Moria. He could be down there to simply punish him for his insolence but to say they still view him as more dangerous as Luffy(when you include things not refleced in his bounty) seems absurd.

yes that is the point i was trying to make, glad you agree ^^

[onemoment]

To add to this debate, it's possible that Luffy is only in level 5 until he's properly processed. He just got beat after all, it would make since he'd get put in level 6 later.

That is, assuming Croc and co are in level 6. It's a good point, with all that Luffy has done he should be on the same or a latter level in Impel Down. The WG somewhat admitted that when they gave him a 300 million bounty. Yet, we've seen so little of Ace's cell that we can't say where it really it. It could just as easily be an area where the ice of freezing hell can't be seen. Or maybe (and this is a reach) even with seastone Ace has enough power left to melt the ice in the area (similar to how it didn't snow when he visited the Winter Island Drum).

Or, maybe Magellan just feels that Luffy should be on level 5 since he beat him so soundly. After all, isn't he the guy who decides which prisoner goes where?

Ultimately though, this mystery is pretty intriguing huh? I beat Oda did this on purpose. Look, now we can't stop talking about the levels of Impel Down!

[Strongbad456]

I think they put Luffy in level 5 because he doesn't have much longer to live. Remember, he's been hit with so much poison that there is no cure. There's no point in putting him in a cell on level 6. If he was just unconcious, then I could see them putting him in a level 6 cell. But even then, they might not want to take him down there because he'd be close to Ace.

[Ivotas]

@Strongbad456:

I think they put Luffy in level 5 because he doesn't have much longer to live. Remember, he's been hit with so much poison that there is no cure. There's no point in putting him in a cell on level 6. If he was just unconcious, then I could see them putting him in a level 6 cell. But even then, they might not want to take him down there because he'd be close to Ace.

Yep. And of all those levels we've seen labeled so far the Freezing Hell is best fit to prolong his life. Magellan still'd be interested in interrogating Luffy and in fictional stories freezing someone often comes with keeping him longer alive. I'd be greatly surprised if Magellan doesn't care to see Luffy again and just let him die.

[Strongbad456]

@Ivotas:

Yep. And of all those levels we've seen labeled so far the Freezing Hell is best fit to prolong his life. Magellan still'd be interested in interrogating Luffy and in fictional stories freezing someone often comes with keeping him longer alive. I'd be greatly surprised if Magellan doesn't care to see Luffy again and just let him die.

Seemed to me that Luffy is in too much pain to speak with anyone. And Magellan is going to off somewhere else. I think the bathroom for awhile. He does spend most of his time in there after all IIRC. Although, I do agree that Luffy being in such a freezing environment will help him live a bit longer.

[Fiasco.]

If ace is on lvl 6 then i'd really be dissapointed, truth is thought everything points towards that, which is so whack. This must be my second dissapoint from this manga…ever.

[ACcentuous]

why is Crocodile being seen as worthy of a deeper ID level than luffy? Its because of Luffy that Robin is free and one of your main points for Crocs threat is BECAUSE he had Robin with him. Without Robin, no pluton. Luffy has Robin at the moment does he not? Doesn't that scale Luffy up to be that much more of a threat than Crocodile?

Luffy is a more powerful criminal, Croc is the more dangerous criminal. In the one piece world political crimes (that is things that upset the structure and balance of the world)are taken far more serious than crimes of piracy. Case in point, White Beard is the world's strongest man, the king of the seas but he is not the worlds most dangerous criminal, Dragon is.
Crocodile abused his shichibukai position, defamed the character of a WG official (king Cobra), attempted to destroy an entire nation, attempted to revive an ancient weapon, and was goin to use said weapon to become pirate king. Dangerous.

In contrast luffy has disturbed the balance by defeating two shichibukai and the Eneis lobby incident thus the reason for his huge bounty (by current standards) but his disturbance to world balance was merely indirect and unintentional. Luffy's soul goal is to become pirate king and as such only messes with WG affairs when they get in the way of his goal or mess with his nakama.

are you more concerned about a criminal who has power or a criminal who has power, the intent to get more power, and then use said power against you. same goes with having robin. Is it more criminal to simply have robin or to use nico's robins abilities for what the WG fears she might and could do.

[Smokin' D. Ace]

@Fiasco.:

If ace is on lvl 6 then i'd really be dissapointed, truth is thought everything points towards that, which is so whack. This must be my second dissapoint from this manga…ever.

Hmm, why would the fact that Ace being kept at L-6(which is highly likely at this point as different clues points to that conclusion whether you want to admit them or not) being such a big disappointment?

Beside, I don't understand what some of you are going at regarding Crocodile. I'd have no problem at all if he is at L-6 together with Ace and Jinbei, as Ivotas pointed out, Sir Crocodile was a bloody Shichibukai, part of the three great powers who betrayed WG. That is a god damn perfect example of someone the WG would want to erase from the history. If not a fallen Shichibukai fitts the description of someone who WG wants to erase from the history, who would?

[Ryuksgelus]

@onemoment:

To add to this debate, it's possible that Luffy is only in level 5 until he's properly processed. He just got beat after all, it would make since he'd get put in level 6 later.

That is, assuming Croc and co are in level 6. It's a good point, with all that Luffy has done he should be on the same or a latter level in Impel Down. The WG somewhat admitted that when they gave him a 300 million bounty. Yet, we've seen so little of Ace's cell that we can't say where it really it. It could just as easily be an area where the ice of freezing hell can't be seen. Or maybe (and this is a reach) even with seastone Ace has enough power left to melt the ice in the area (similar to how it didn't snow when he visited the Winter Island Drum).

Or, maybe Magellan just feels that Luffy should be on level 5 since he beat him so soundly. After all, isn't he the guy who decides which prisoner goes where?

Ultimately though, this mystery is pretty intriguing huh? I beat Oda did this on purpose. Look, now we can't stop talking about the levels of Impel Down!

See this is my issue. The original scene with Minotaurus breaking up a fight had no signs of either extreme Cold or heat. Doesn't make sense it would be level 6 since they referred to the new guy(they're adding new 100m+++ pirates even now?) and why, or even how, could level 6 prisoners be scarred of being sent to an even worse level than they already are.

Then subsequently torn up by a worse prisoner on apparently the same level. Doesn't make sense its level 3 because they didn't show any signs of being parched, plus seems unlikely he dragged them unconsciously all the way down to level 6. Oda not sloppy with planning things out ahead of time, so i have a hard time believe the L-5 plate meant nothing(why put in such a red herring by using the letter L) and he's making up the tortures as he goes along.

Tells me there is a possibility Level 6&5 are in fact separated into different sections. Death Row and Central Tower being two possible examples.

Beside, I don't understand what some of you are going at regarding Crocodile. I'd have no problem at all if he is at L-6 together with Ace and Jinbei, as Ivotas pointed out, Sir Crocodile was a bloody Shichibukai, part of the three great powers who betrayed WG. That is a god damn perfect example of someone the WG would want to erase from the history. If not a fallen Shichibukai fitts the description of someone who WG wants to erase from the history, who would?

Think part of the disappointment is that in the big picture of things even Ace&Jinbei are not that important. Makes the Marines and Government seem even more inept that they have nobody at all in their prison of Rayleigh's calibur.

Its entirely possible these people are just killed ouright upon capture, but still a bit boring and odd Oda wouldn't introduce a legend successfully captured by high level marines like Garp and the Admirals. Someone they'd rather keep alive for punishment in secret and slowly disappear into myth instead of kill him and have him end up a martyr like Roger did.

In all honesty a rogue Shichibukai seems like the type of criminal they'd announce to the world is in their prisons suffering daily as an example of what happens to allies who beytray them. Its also a bit diappointting more emphasis isn't put on all these bountyheads. How many Luffy level threats must we have seen since this arc began?

Makes the most powerful government assassin in history look like shit when theres apparently thousands of people in existence with his level of ability. Hundreds in a single place, all of which are somehow kept in check by around half-a dozen semi-powerful guards?

[Easy]

Chap 527 mentions Ace being on level 5 because there is where they bring > 100 mil prisoners.

Chap 530 says he (Ace) is held in maximum security.

Oda never mention were Ace is being held, just "the floor which Ace's being held" etc, why would he do that if it were as easy as him being on level 5. Besides Crocodile isn't worth 100 mil, yet is on the same level as Ace. Isn't it kinda obvious they aren't there, it would make more sense for the gov. to have floor reserved for those that really piss them off, or is too dangerous to be kept higher up. Those kinda guys that don’t brake down just cus it's cold or warm as hell.

And why would that be a bad thing, the guys down with Ace are the one that didn't move an eyebrow while being boiled in 100-degree water, hell if they would care if it's a bit warm or cold, it probably isn’t to much of punishment, the last level might have some unrevealed hell, or not we'll see, but I really doubt it's the 5th.

[Robby]

…I really can't believe there's still a debate on this and has been for like a month now. 100m+ bounty is a guideline for being put on level 5. Bounty automatically qualifies you for certain floors, but its not a hard and fast rule. Anyone more dangerous, which is a JUDGEMENT CALL, is put in even higher security, regardless of bounty. Crocadiles former FROZEN bounty being at 89 million doesn't mean he's automatically a 4th floor canidate, it means thats the bare minimum floor he would be considered for putting on.

Former Shichibukai=highest security threat.

Blackbeard has a bounty of 0, and yet is a Shichibukai. And we don't know the bountiess of any of the yonkou (or Ace or Dragon for that matter) so we don't know the sliding scale or what the range of bounties. We don't know how common it is to have bounties in the 300M range, Luffy, Kidd and Shichibukai are the only bounties we've seen that high, after all. Its possible that bounties normally top out at around 150M, and that 300M is pretty crazy. If the first 5 floors are in 20M increments, it would be silly for floor 5 to simply house everything between 100M -5000M, at some point you have to draw a line and put even stronger scarier guys in even higher security that you have available.

Luffy is in level 5, because he's about to die anyway, and it would be INCREDIBLY stupid to take him to level 6, Ace, which is his goal anyway.

To all of those that were hoping floor 6 would house forgotten monster-iffic legends on the scale of Gold Roger or Rayleigh Odz, your taking the line too literally, though prisoners of that scale might well be there. Ace, Jimbei, and Crocadile all cetainley qualify as highest priority in need of maximum possible security prisoners. The first several floors you can go back and forth for torture or whatnot (Buggy was as deep as floor 4 before going back to floor 1)Level 6 is simply an ultra high security floor thats so dangerous, NO ONE EVER GETS OUT.

A level 1 prisoner might be taken to level 5 for torture, then back up. But once you're taken to level 6, you are never brought back up, and thus "erased from history." . Thats why it was only a myth. No one who'd been to floor 6 had been brought back up to tell the tale and confirm it. That simple.

[Rori]

@robbybevard:

…I really can't believe there's still a debate on this and has been for like a month now. 100m+ bounty is a guideline for being put on level 5. Bounty automatically qualifies you for certain floors, but its not a hard and fast rule. Anyone more dangerous, which is a JUDGEMENT CALL, is put in even higher security, regardless of bounty. Crocadiles former FROZEN bounty being at 89 million doesn't mean he's automatically a 4th floor canidate, it means thats the bare minimum floor he would be considered for putting on.

Former Shichibukai=highest security threat.

Blackbeard has a bounty of 0, and yet is a Shichibukai. And we don't know the bountiess of any of the yonkou (or Ace or Dragon for that matter) so we don't know the sliding scale or what the range of bounties. We don't know how common it is to have bounties in the 300M range, Luffy, Kidd and Shichibukai are the only bounties we've seen that high, after all. Its possible that bounties normally top out at around 150M, and that 300M is pretty crazy. If the first 5 floors are in 20M increments, it would be silly for floor 5 to simply house everything between 100M -5000M, at some point you have to draw a line and put even stronger scarier guys in even higher security that you have available.

Luffy is in level 5, because he's about to die anyway, and it would be INCREDIBLY stupid to take him to level 6, Ace, which is his goal anyway.

To all of those that were hoping floor 6 would house forgotten monster-iffic legends on the scale of Gold Roger or Rayleigh Odz, your taking the line too literally, though prisoners of that scale might well be there. Ace, Jimbei, and Crocadile all cetainley qualify as highest priority in need of maximum possible security prisoners. The first several floors you can go back and forth for torture or whatnot (Buggy was as deep as floor 4 before going back to floor 1)Level 6 is simply an ultra high security floor thats so dangerous, NO ONE EVER GETS OUT.

A level 1 prisoner might be taken to level 5 for torture, then back up. But once you're taken to level 6, you are never brought back up, and thus "erased from history." . Thats why it was only a myth. No one who'd been to floor 6 had been brought back up to tell the tale and confirm it. That simple.

finally, someone explained it clearly. :D

Still wondering where Hannybal has gone tho and how he fights

[Vegapunk]

@Fiasco.:

If ace is on lvl 6 then i'd really be dissapointed, truth is thought everything points towards that, which is so whack. This must be my second dissapoint from this manga…ever.

then go and stop reading :getlost:

[Zik]

Beside, I don't understand what some of you are going at regarding Crocodile. I'd have no problem at all if he is at L-6 together with Ace and Jinbei, as Ivotas pointed out, Sir Crocodile was a bloody Shichibukai, part of the three great powers who betrayed WG. That is a god damn perfect example of someone the WG would want to erase from the history. If not a fallen Shichibukai fitts the description of someone who WG wants to erase from the history, who would?

Regarding the Croc part, some ppl on this forum need for this to be the type of manga where the enemy gets stronger every arc and after that aren't as important as they initially were. Its also cuz ppl on this forum have invested so much time in the rest of shichibukai > Croc and him being on lvl 6 to them would go against that despite the fact that he's there with Jinbei.

[MagneticMonkey]

@Maase:

Once again, normal OP fan attitude.

Look, bro, Luffy did defeat those 2 Shichibukais by PURE LUCK.
Crocodile underestimated him and Moria not only underestimated him as it was needed that fucking huge mast to defeat him, even after the Nightmare Storm.

The Shichibukai's are very powerful, the reason why Luffy defeated them is because he's a rookie that had very luck, help from a lot of guys, and some strenght.

Oh i know that. But are the WGs or the marines aware of that? Probably not…

EDIT: @Ivotas i agree with you that the government is stupid. The TGP is obviously a failure. There are pirates stronger than the shishibukais out there. I don't buy them the whole TGP idea. A perfect example is the actual war.. Why would the whole marines and all the shishis go against 1 yonkou? That alone doesn't make sense. If 4 yonkous + crew vs shishis + marines is the actual balance in the world then why can't all the marines take care of 1 yonkou alone? Are they assuming the yonkous will ally? That doesn't make sense since they are enemies. Oh and before you begin with oh but they want to kill WB so they gather everything please consider that gathering your whole military forces in one point isn't the best tactic at all. What about the revolutionary that seems also worse enough to profit from that strategic failure? The whole marines should be enough to take down one yonkou from the WGs political point of view…
From the facts we have WB is the strongest man in the OP world which alone is an argument that this TGP is a flawed concept... My point still stands that the shishibukais are strong pirates but there are actually stronger pirates out there. So i don't get this TGP concept. It seems naive as if they don't know the world they're living in.

[Ivotas]

@MagneticMonkey:

Oh i know that. But are the WGs or the marines aware of that? Probably not…

Even if they're not considering how lightly they take Luffy they rather expect the fights to have been close instead of Luffy owning them with closed eyes and one arm tied to his back.

[MagneticMonkey]

@Ivotas:

Even if they're not considering how lightly they take Luffy they rather expect the fights to have been close instead of Luffy owning them with closed eyes and one arm tied to his back.

The shishis are pirates that are strong (yes but probably not super top tier since those oftens doesn't give shit about the WG) that are willing to work with the marines thus gaining immunity. It's not that they are the perfect choices… The marines have to take what they get. If only mid tier fighters are willing to become shishis then the WG must pick one of them for the sake of the TGP balance...

[Best Kept Secret]

Why is it that the recent OP-Chapters suck so much?
First Oda rushed everything and now It's just boring…I dont know

I hope the next chapters on Level 5 and maybe 6 will reveal many important Infos for the future story plot

[Ivotas]

@MagneticMonkey:

EDIT: @Ivotas i agree with you that the government is stupid. The TGP is obviously a failure. There are pirates stronger than the shishibukais out there. I don't buy them the whole TGP idea. A perfect example is the actual war.. Why would the whole marines and all the shishis go against 1 yonkou? That alone doesn't make sense. If 4 yonkous + crew vs shishis + marines is the actual balance in the world then why can't the marines take care of 1 yonkou alone?

It was never said that All Yonkoh = All Shichibukai + Marine HQ. That was fan misinterpretation. Back then I (aswell as some other members said) that it makes more sense to be 1 Yonkoh (which includes his crew) = 7 Shichibukai + Marine HQ. The current development seems to prove that.

The reason for that is that the Yonkoh are the top of the food chain. Newgate's the strongest man in the world and the other three are said to be on his level. Thus they are strong enough to trust in themselves and make no compromise with others, unlike the Shichibukai who apparently are guys that lost to them (though I still think Mihawk did it because he's bored). This also means that the Yonkoh don't work together. They are enemies. Even though if Shanks seems to be getting along with Newgate a bit they are still enemies as he said himself when he boarded his ship.

I think that if all the Yonkoh would join forces they would squash the Marine HQ + Shichibukai combo. But since they are so strong, they are probably too arrogant to work together. Which makes sense because being the rulers of the New World, the affairs of the first half of the Grand Line probably don't matter much to them and they most probably focus more on their direct rivals. I mean just look how Kaidoh already moved to take advantage of the situation.

That said, the concept of the Three Great Powers can't be anything else then a WG construct. It is said to keep the world in balance. But what world? IMO no other then the world order the WG itself has created. This would explain why they create something like the Shichibukai. They are so desperate that they'd even acknowledge pirates just to not be destroyed by guys like Newgate. It's all a WG thing IMO. I don't think that Newgate, Shanks or Kaidoh give a rats ass about this entire Three Great Powers thing. I'm not even sure if they refer to themselves as Yonkoh.

So yeah, it never really made sense that the equation was like "4 Yonkoh = Marine HQ + 7 Shichibukai". People just interpreted it to be like that but if that was the case, then the WG could have long taken care of all the Yonkoh because if they take one out first even the remaining three together wouldn't stand a chance against the combined forces of Marine HQ and Shichibukai. Get what I mean?

@MagneticMonkey:

The shishis are pirates that are strong (yes but probably not super top tier since those oftens doesn't give shit about the WG) that are willing to work with the marines thus gaining immunity. It's not that they are the perfect choices… The marines have to take what they get. If only mid tier fighters are willing to become shishis then the WG must pick one of them for the sake of the TGP balance...

Again, it's a matter of the WG's perspective and not ours. To the WG the Shichibukai are still super strong pirates (even if they are not in the same league as the Yonkoh). In other words, they are probably the strongest guys the WG is able to handle. The Yonkoh however are so strong that the WG can't do anything against them. That's why having Shichibukai in the deepest level of ID makes sense. Because I seriously doubt that the place is full with guys the WG is able to handle.

Hey, if they manage to capture the entire Whitebeard crew after this war I'm sure they create a new deeper level just to hold them. But so far catching a Yonkoh seems to be something that was almost impossible before Teach entered the scene. Get what I'm trying to say?

[MagneticMonkey]

@Ivotas:

Get what I mean?

I get it. And i agree. From the WGs point of view it all makes sense.

[Ivotas]

@MagneticMonkey:

I get it. And i agree. From the WGs point of view it all makes sense.

Cool. Nice to see I was able to explain myself.^^
And yeah, I agree with you that from a different perspective it wouldn't make sense. But as I said, that's not the perspective that matters inside the fictional world itself.

So now that this is set straight we could perhaps move to a different topic? I'll make the start. What exactly is the deal with the Hydra? I mean last chapter one head was taken out and this chapter Luffy took another one down. But why doesn't Magellan simply recreate them? It's just poison he manipulates and not a living being by itself. What's more is that a hydra is a snake that recreates and multiplies chopped off heads. So why didn't any of that sort happen so far?

[newone]

It's already said that ace is level 5
And also he heard the fight upon him between luffy and magellan
Mister2 touched the face of magellan so it will be used to free luffy who is very near from ace and a big battle will be again

[Monkey D. Zero]

@newone:

It's already said that ace is level 5
And also he heard the fight upon him between luffy and magellan
Mister2 touched the face of magellan so it will be used to free luffy who is very near from ace and a big battle will be again

U meen Hanybal . I cant remember when mr.2 touched magellan.

[Ivotas]

@newone:

It's already said that ace is level 5

No it was not which is the exact reason why there is this discussion. If it was said nobody would doubt it anymore.

And also he heard the fight upon him between luffy and magellan

That's just your take on it. In fact Ace never mentioned that he heard anything from above. He simply is asking things since he knows something is going on ever since Hancock spoke to him. If you could really hear battle sounds woundn't then every other prisoner on that level ask what's it supposed to mean?

[Monkey D. Zero]

I can't wait to see the new chapter =)
I hope Oda will explain something interesting

[GoustiFruit]

Two crazy theories:

• Buggy will capture Magellan with the net he stole
• mastering haki allows DF users to swim :-D

[Monkey D. Zero]

@GoustiFruit:

Two crazy theories:

• Buggy will capture Magellan with the net he stole
• mastering haki allows DF users to swim :-D

Haha I want to see that.But i dont think it will happen

[flandrian15]

indeed, there has been no comfirmations about ace being in lvl 5, in fact it has been hinted at because he is probably a +100 000 000 bounty but that doesn't mean he IS in lvl 5. It means he is in 5 or downwards. . . If you can find some page or a trans that actually says Ace is in Lvl 5, then you just post it here. Besides. Lvl 5 bieng the freezing hell I think it is obvious Ace is not there at all except if the sealed place is in Lvl 5 which might be possible

[MagneticMonkey]

@Ivotas:

So now that this is set straight we could perhaps move to a different topic? I'll make the start. What exactly is the deal with the Hydra? I mean last chapter one head was taken out and this chapter Luffy took another one down. But why doesn't Magellan simply recreate them? It's just poison he manipulates and not a living being by itself. What's more is that a hydra is a snake that recreates and multiplies chopped off heads. So why didn't any of that sort happen so far?

Magellan is a kind guy. He knows luffy will die if he continues so he wants him to feel a little happy that he took out 2 hydras head. Or maybe he is saving it for the surprise effect in a rematch like "boo! i can still pwn you ya thought ya got me there?"
Seriously i have no idea why it is so. Is it probably Magellans weak point? Maybe Magellan is only able to generate a constant amount of poison? Maybe that after that it takes a while to be able to generate more poison? I mean hydra might drain a lot of energy. I dunno…

[Mugiwara Kaizoku]

what word was used for the term "buddy" in this chapter (chapter title and bon kurei at the end)? is it the well known "nakama" which also refers to crewmate, mate, etc. aside from buddy or is it the (in OP) less meaningfull yet also meanigfull "tomodachi" which "only" means "friend" as far as i know? or is it yet another word, if yes, let us in.
maybe this could lead us to a hint where the relationship between mugi-chan and bon-chan is heading…

[Ivotas]

It was just "datchi" which I guess comes from "tomodachi".

[Greg]

My impression of the what I've seen reading the past few pages:

LVL5, 6 NO STUPID guys come on, 100,000,000+ ONLY no that's not reasonable because ACE!!!!! Pace is too fast Why is Oda going so SLOW! LVL5? No Level 6 only! But that can't Mr. 2 touched me in my sleep, Magellan what? So weak. Where's my Hanyabal, no certainly not LEVEL 5 but possibly LEVEL 6 100,000,000+ ONLY then that means THAT'S NOT POSSIBLE BOUNTIES MEAN NOTHING IT ALL DEPENDS ON whether or not I keep reading this series or not will be decided by LEVEL 5 ONLY, how come Luffy lost? That's so dumb awesome. LEVEL 5!!!!!

[Ivotas]

@Greg:

My impression of the what I've seen reading the past few pages:

LVL5, 6 NO STUPID guys come on, 100,000,000+ ONLY no that's not reasonable because ACE!!!!! Pace is too fast Why is Oda going so SLOW! LVL5? No Level 6 only! But that can't Mr. 2 touched me in my sleep, Magellan what? So weak. Where's my Hanyabal, no certainly not LEVEL 5 but possibly LEVEL 6 100,000,000+ ONLY then that means THAT'S NOT POSSIBLE BOUNTIES MEAN NOTHING IT ALL DEPENDS ON whether or not I keep reading this series or not will be decided by LEVEL 5 ONLY, how come Luffy lost? That's so dumb awesome. LEVEL 5!!!!!

What about my question about the Hydra? Perhaps it doesn't mean much anyways, but what if that sneaky little Oda was spinning his web of mischief again with this one?

[Mugiwara Kaizoku]

This post is deleted!

[Mugiwara Kaizoku]

@Ivotas:

What about my question about the Hydra? Perhaps it doesn't mean much anyways, but what if that sneaky little Oda was spinning his web of mischief again with this one?

he's breaking with the greek mythology camparisons and makes the hydra a snake which loses all heads anyways, next time it shows up it's only a stump of it's neck. it might even evolve into a blob at some point (like greg :))…................................... or it's just magellans whim how many heads the hydra has (far more reasonable)

[Ivotas]

@Mugiwara:

he's breaking with the greek mythology camparisons and makes the hydra a snake which loses all heads anyways, next time it shows up it's only a stump of it's neck. it might even evolve into a blob at some point (like greg :))…................................... or it's just magellans whim how many heads the hydra has (far more reasonable)

Well ok if he breaks with the comparisons and doesn't make the Hydra multiply heads but why doesn't Oda make Magellan simply recreate them to the original form? I mean in fictional stories bodies like that continously revert back to normal after they took an attack. But this time it didn't happen and I seriously doubt Oda was sloppy here. So the question is why?

[MagneticMonkey]

i gave one possible answer. Magellan can only create a specific amount of poison in a fight. Maybe that's the reason he wasn't able to regenerate the hydras head. Cause it would have cost him too much poison he would have needed in the fight.

Maybe the hydra is his strongest attack a mix of different poison that needs a time to regenerate. I mean like in video games where you have to gather your energy before launching a super strong attack.

[Ivotas]

Sorry, missed that the first time. Sounds like a plausible possibility. Now that you mention the "I can still pawn you" surprise effect, it could in fact be a bit along the lines of power ups when characters go all out.

[Robby]

@MagneticMonkey:

Why would the whole marines and all the shishis go against 1 yonkou? That alone doesn't make sense.

lets say, you have 15 hunters up against an grizzly bear, and all 15 hunters have guns and bayonettes.

If one hunter runs rght up to the bear and tries to kill it, that Hunter will get smacked down and hurt, and then be useless and no longer able to do anything.

Then, a second hunter could run up to the same bear, and also get hurt. And so on, until the bear, after being tired from fighting 14 hunters, falls to the 15th… but only after the other 14 hunters have fallen.

OR...

All 15 hunters can puts their sights on the bear and fire at once. The bear falls, and no one gets hurt.

They're gathering all their forces to take on WHitebeard, because he's the STRONGEST MAN IN THE WORLD, and they don' want to take any chances. They're confident they can beat him, or they never would have used Ace bait to begin with. But, if by having as huge an overwheling force as possible allows you to minimilize your casualties, then you shoud try to get by with as few injured as possible.

@Best:

Why is it that the recent OP-Chapters suck so much?
First Oda rushed everything and now It's just boring…I dont know

I hope the next chapters on Level 5 and maybe 6 will reveal many important Infos for the future story plot

the latest bunch of chapters have been great,full of a wide variety of different characters and personalities, and old fan favorites the likes of which we probably won't see again after the New World, and Magellan has kicked serious butt, all the while building the drama, tension and expectation for the inevitable meeting with Ace… and Crocadile. Not every chapter can be epicly revealing huge chunks of history about the past of the world, you need to build up to them sometimes.

Your entitled to your opinion, but I would like to hear in clearer terms, what is it you think sucks about them lately?

@Greg:

My impression of the what I've seen reading the past few pages:

LVL5, 6 NO STUPID guys come on, 100,000,000+ ONLY no that's not reasonable because ACE!!!!! Pace is too fast Why is Oda going so SLOW! LVL5? No Level 6 only! But that can't Mr. 2 touched me in my sleep, Magellan what? So weak. Where's my Hanyabal, no certainly not LEVEL 5 but possibly LEVEL 6 100,000,000+ ONLY then that means THAT'S NOT POSSIBLE BOUNTIES MEAN NOTHING IT ALL DEPENDS ON whether or not I keep reading this series or not will be decided by LEVEL 5 ONLY, how come Luffy lost? That's so dumb awesome. LEVEL 5!!!!!

Wow. Yeah. That pretty much sums it up, allright.

[MagneticMonkey]

@robbybevard:

lets say, you have 15 hunters up against an grizzly bear, and all 15 hunters have guns and bayonettes.

If one hunter runs rght up to the bear and tries to kill it, that Hunter will get smacked down and hurt, and then be useless and no longer able to do anything.

Then, a second hunter could run up to the same bear, and also get hurt. And so on, until the bear, after being tired from fighting 14 hunters, falls to the 15th… but only after the other 14 hunters have fallen.

OR...

All 15 hunters can puts their sights on the bear and fire at once. The bear falls, and no one gets hurt.

They're gathering all their forces to take on WHitebeard, because he's the STRONGEST MAN IN THE WORLD, and they don' want to take any chances. They're confident they can beat him, or they never would have used Ace bait to begin with. But, if by having as huge an overwheling force as possible allows you to minimilize your casualties, then you shoud try to get by with as few injured as possible.

If i'm a clever bad pirate it would be paradise right now. I can rampage and attack specific Kingdoms right now since the WG/marines were so dumb to gather nearly all their strongest fighters. That was my point. Under this circumstance it seems like a desperate move from them or a really dumb one which makes people like sengoku or the gorousei looks like idiots who fail at their jobs…

In your example you must add that the 15 hunters are all in balance with 5 grizzlis around there. And 15 hunters against one grizzlis is a good opportunity for the 4 others to attack villages while the protectors are trying to kill one of them.

[Ivotas]

@robbybevard:

Wow. Yeah. That pretty much sums it up, allright.

Not really, my take on having an even deeper level then Lv. 6 is left out of that summary. :(

[123]

@MagneticMonkey
I'm curious, what would you have done if you were Sengoku?

[regasatanum]

Luffy is actually dumb. All he needs to beat Magellen is the realization - Rubber is immune to poison. When is the last time we heard " oh my rubber hose is poisoned", "damn someone killed my tire with posion". The reason he lost to magellan is some sort of placebo effect, it's all Bentham's fault who suggested Magellen is a posion man. See what Luffy did to Enel by being ignorant.

[MagneticMonkey]

@123:

@MagneticMonkey
I'm curious, what would you have done if you were Sengoku?

you mean he was forced to deal with the situation cause the gorousei wanted Ace to be executed? If the war was planed then i would have expected more from tha marines. They are as far as we know a huge military force with many capable fighters right?

1. They don't know where the enemy is. Where will he attack? They don't know, they lost the sight of WB.
2. They gathered all their fighters in one or 2 points
3. They barely know what the other yonkous are doing
4. What about Dragon? That's like inviting him to take down many WGs countries.
5. They're counting on the shishibukais who are pirates in this war. They are counting so much on them that they sent one of them in prison and threaten him and hancock to strip of their title if they don't help.
6. They held Ace at ID and are confident that they will manage to transport him safely to the MHQ. They are inviting the opponent to take them down while transporting Ace. Isn't it more complicate to fight on ships rather on land? Unless there is a tunnel between ID and the MHQ.

Those are signs of desperation or shitty strategy or both. I expect them to know where WB is. I expected them to have a better plan. It seems to me that they rushed the war without thinking about the consequences.

And i'm not a war genius but the points i mentioned are imo solid enough to say that this was not the best war strategy.

EDIT: There is still room for a strategy out there but with al the facts we have it doesn't seem as if Sengoku has a strategy. He can still leave some point open trying to bait WB but what will be the trap? Are they counting so much on BB? It all seems as if they're gathering a lot of sand bags to stop the flooding. And look at what garps said: "There is no stop now. We have angered the king of the sea."

[Mugiwara Kaizoku]

@regasatanum:

Luffy is actually dumb. All he needs to beat Magellen is the realization - Rubber is immune to poison. When is the last time we heard " oh my rubber hose is poisoned", "damn someone killed my tire with posion". The reason he lost to magellan is some sort of placebo effect, it's all Bentham's fault who suggested Magellen is a posion man. See what Luffy did to Enel by being ignorant.

so you're suggesting that luffy is a thing rather than a human being cause he is rubber? when you inhale poisonous gas, you're poisoned. when you swallow poison, you're poisoned. why would luffy be immune to that? of course you might think that luffy could be immune to the touch of poisen but magellan is not exactly a poison-only user, he creates substances that are poisones (f.e. chlorine) and that's why even rubber can be affected to his poison ability. also other than normal rubber luffy has sweat pores.

[Ace_san_is_awesome]

You guys probably already ended this discussion but I feel I need to add to the debate on where Ace-san is. I've been looking through the chapters since Luffy found out Ace-san was on Death row to see if I can find any evidence where someone says Ace-san is on Level 5 and it's not just thier hunch. However, I still have not and if you look at chapter 529 on page 9 in the upper right hand corner, you will see a drawing of Impel Down where Lvl's 1-5 are marked. But right under lvl 5 is what looks like another floor that is dark. That could be lvl 6 where Ace-san is. I'm still not positive as to where he is but with this evidence, it seems most likely that Ace-san and the others there are in lvl 6.