@Croy:
Woah boy, its been a long time since I have gotten into such an extensive arguement over this but oh well. Somethings I couldn't let go.
OK…
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@AGOG:
Croy:
I already said how it would stay that way. Every time Hancock tries to express herself, she hides her intentions or only speaks them to others. She has never once mentioned her feelings, she has delusions in her head on how things should happen but she NEVER acts on them. Remember the scene where she wants to feed Luffy herself and when Luffy opens up that possibility by asking her to join him she shuns it as her being perfectly happy? She also already believes with the call of her name that he already loves her. She won't need anything else other than his words and orders. She won't ask if he loves her, she already assumes that, and Luffy will be absentminded as always, not understanding any of his words affect on her. No rejection, nothing will happen. This is why I called it a quirk, it is something she does that will never change, and Oda will always find a way to get out of, whether because Luffy doesn't hear it or she doesn't act.
Hmmm…
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/559/15/
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/522/16/
Those show well enough she's not in it to talk and date once, she's in it for the whole package and she's got a personality that will FORCE her to act.
Luffy's not an idiot like Goku, sorry but the guy is raised in a civilized town, he isn't an ape man and he isn't as pitiful as Hancock is.
The point remains that SHE WILL be confrontational in her approaches because she's just made that way. Call it what you want, but it's totally going to turn ugly.
If you want this to happen than instead of her personally exposing the secret, her secret needs to be exposed before she returns to AL. Her doing it herself is completely unlike something Oda would do with the narrative. The people of AL find out before she goes back, and accepts her anyways so that she can find out it was a lie she should never of had to use. They would have loved her anyways. I have actually made an observation in the past that 'if' she was exposed as a slave on the battlefield somehow, she would have 'less' of a chance of joining the strawhats because than it would be perfect for her to head home and be accepted because they would all know before hand and console her. But just like you are 'assuming' I'm assuming she won't have a chance to head home because two very vocal marine officials saw her out right betray the marines and eventually that "I will always be forgiven" trait of hers has got to break.
No, it doesn't need to be exposed before she heads there…
Are you serious?
Go back a little and observe things from the manga:
Gaimon's problem was basically that he had this issue, it was NOT until he confronted and asked a person to help him had he not been able to gain his peace of mind.
Nami, she wasn't free until she basically went and HEADED to tell Arlong she'll kill him, it was not until AFTER she gathered the courage to stand up to her aggressor and so forth.
Sanji wasn't even changing UNTIL Oda made Zeff punch his face in.
Robin was basically ON THE VERGE of death until she screamed "I wanna live!!" and same goes with Franky.
No matter how you look at the manga, it isn't until PEOPLE make their own choice to take action, until that isn't done, their problems aren't solved.
Unless Hancock does it herself, it wouldn't mean anything to her... If she doesn't drop the facade, she's not gaining anything from it, do I make myself clear?
Wait you actually think this supposed 'random' people… being the crew members of the one person she has accepted, is less likely to trust than the people she went out of her way to lie to? She trusts Luffy more than she trusts her own self at this point. And why isn't freedom something she wants? In my last quote I showed just how much fear she has of others not even accepting her and she has to 'play' the part just to survive. Why wouldn't freedom be something she wants? Why 'exactly' would it be a lie?
Yes, ACCEPTING HER… As in, ISLAND ACCEPTING HER!!
She doesn't gain anything if 7 people agree to her and so on, she is leading a false life. However, if her clan agrees to her and her past, she is completely fixed.
Think about it this way:
Your father wants you to be a doctor, but you want to be a writer. The father keeps on forcing doctor stuff on you, but you wish to be a writer no matter what... So, this leaves you to have a bitter relationship with him... Until you hear the man accept your dreams, you'll never see eye-to-eye or even talk to him.
So, in relation to OP:
Hancock has a taboo from slavery. She was in shackles for 4 years... She is hurt by this. So, after she is saved, she returns to AL and basically lies out of her ass... She does it for 11+ years. Until she is comfortable with herself and their judgment, she's not going to be able to change for the better...
So, until she actually asks them to understand her past, the AL natives. She can't possibility be a better character... Furthermore, if she gets rejected and thrown out, then she can go and join for all I care... But this is something that MUST BE done.
Oda has done this before, during Skypiea: http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/302/07/
If Oda hadn't done that, we wouldn't have had peace… You can also see Dalton and Vivi in the same sense as well as the two Elbaf captains and Laboon.
Hancock needs to relieve herself of all this dishonesty if she wants to have freedom, otherwise, she's still the same fool she was.
You mentioned Pirate King and you don't think freedom is an appropriate dream angle? Fine, she wants freedom and also wants something else with it that ends up leading to that 'freedom' angle being accomplished. Luffy thinks being Pirate King is the one with the most freedom, and thus Pirate King simply becomes his ambition for absolute freedom. How is that any different to what I said other than not putting a focus out that 'defines' this freedom dream, and thats something that could easily come up later. There are after all a lot of repressed stuff going on since she was a slave, what might have been her dream before being a slave still can't be accomplished as an empress who lies to her nation. This is only an angle of possibilty, its not meant to be taken as definite. Instead of being someone that takes peoples words and tries to believe that unless I give a novel worth of info you can't possibily see my angle, try doing some constructive imagination and fill in my blanks jeesh.
No, Pirate King was his dream since he was a child… He had done it for very immature and childish reasons. Sure, the feeling he gets is freedom, but that's unique to him. And if you want a reason to why it is any different, let's just say that it is TAKEN by a crew member... We can't have two members looking for the same dream, now can we?
Her dream, according to life on AL, would have been to be the Empress... She would have had that dream. Furthermore, her being a slave isn't important. Nami had the same dream before anything happened to her... Same with Usopp and every other character in the manga.
I understand your angle, "freedom" and I feel she wishes to just find a home back on AL rather than sail around playing pirate... She wants a simple life of honesty and their trust, not a life of being a SH.
Nothing against you, but I feel it'd be more powerful if she made an effort to change herself rather than have it done for her...
And exactly when are we going to get this "retribution" for her past. At what point, within this arc, does it look like she is going to settle those feelings. Furthermore she clearly still DESPISES the World Government, you seriously think she won't have any involvement on the final collapse/retribution of the Tenryuubito. That she is just going to stick around on her island and watch them from the sidelines being a cheerleader? If you want to talk out of character, now THAT is out of character from what we have seen of her thus far.
I ask you this, what reason will Robin have to kill everyone responsible for her island's massacre?
Revenge, right?
Will revenge get Robin what she wants in life? No.
If Hancock wants REVENGE, then she's better off joining Dragon.
Luffy's crew has no determination to kill anyone:
- Be pirate king. Return hat.
- Fulfill a promise to Kuina.
- Find a legendary body of water.
- Map the world.
- Become like his father.
- Surpass Tom in shipwright skills.
- Learn of True History.
- Cure all diseases
- Fulfill a promise to Laboon.
Not one of them hold any feeling of revenge towards anything… Why would the manga remain worthwhile if Hancock joins with intent to take over or kill the WG?
Think about it, if and only if some random fishman joins Luffy's crew to take over the world, what reason will that help the manga?
Luffy isn't out to take over the world, he is out for freedom... Moria wants PK to take over the world, same with Crocodile and most of the other characters... Luffy wants freedom.
The difference is easy to see, Luffy never has REVENGE on his mind.
If Hancock wants to attack the WG, then she's better off with Dragon. Luffy isn't here to destroy governments, he is a pirate.
Which is precisely why I said they weren't actual info on her becoming a crew member, just simple coincidences that 'could' have turned out to be Odas way of subtly foreshadowing her joining. And wait if a character has a con they can't join? What series have you been following? EVERY character has something about them before they joined that conflicted with joining the crew, they all had a weakness or something that had to be gotten over with to join. By that definition Luffy shouldn't have any crew members whatsoever.
Yes, however, some characters picked a better path…
I still wouldn't think that, but I would lower my expectations. I have said from the start if she doesn't join with Luffy at this pivatal moment (the end of the war and Fishman island) she likely never will. So I guess we are in agreement on that.
I just say that her joining isn't good for her character, never was…
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@Croy:
Yeah ok I think im done argueing with you. There are a ton of people that I personally don't think have a chance of joining, but you know what, I muse the possibilities and accept stuff can change and than I imagine how it could work rather just assume it won't. There is no point in argueing with a person so caught in his own beliefs that he would shun anyones 'facts' as mere coincidences and doesn't even give them a bit of credit. I personally don't think Jimbei will join, hell I think Perona, the one you want to see join has a nigh 0 possibility to join but you know what, I don't say its 0, why? Because I know I can be surprised and its Oda's story so I don't usually piss on other peoples beliefs because stranger things have happened. I take the possibility and try and see what angle that person can give even if I believe it can't possibily work, because who knows what the future holds. I even give a ton of people credit for Jimbei because although I personally don't see it happen, I acknowledge the facts provided.
Now im reminded why I don't bother going into this thread much. Oh well see the rest of you later I guess!
Zero for many reasons… She never needs to join.
@AdmiralYonkouMt.Bandit:
Honestly I see the connection and the bigger plot of the nobles and the auction and discrimination for fish or mer ppl but I don't see Luffy ending slavery.
I think even Oda knows everything doesn't have to have those type of happy endings. Lets not act like Kuro couldn't have just turned around and kill Kaya or Enel still destroy the island.
This slavery thing being ended by Luffy beating up or killing a few ppl or even claiming to protect Gyojin island is not going to end it. WB was protecting the island yet seems from the way they talked in the auction house and since it was being run by a shichibukai it was just hard to get them. Wasn't like they couldn't.
I agree… Luffy shouldn't do this... He's never gone and cared for governments or anything.
@brennen.exe:
I'm sort of hoping FI involved bounty hunters more. When was the last time we had bounty hunters as enemies? Or more specifically, bounty hunters and not pirates or Marines? Hasn't read any other posts but these two, and doesn't know what thread he is in.
Maybe we'll have a Yonkou saga upon entry of NW, like we had a Shichibukai saga when crew entered Grand Line.
FI may just be some supernova being beaten up…