No, no, Gorlom. He's not talking about the use of "right" or "left". He's talking about the misuse of tense implied by the wording "should".
Who should be dead in One Piece?
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i think deltrons left ball should hav died…...ugh i mean i think pell should be dead....my bad
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It should be Blackbeard. Have him get a heartattack from his obesity as he's about to join the war his heart stops and he drops dead.
Then we find out that's how Whitebeard wins his fights he just uses his haki to cause diseases.
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This post is deleted!
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Roger should be dead, yet his spirit still lives on in the hearts of the pirates who took the seas.
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There has been something bothering me about Roger being dead. For some reason I think it's not true. I don't know why I just got this feeling that somehow he didn't get executed and a decoy was planted in his place by the Government cause they would be too embarassed to admit that he got away from them on their watch. Ya never know what Oda might wanna cook up as a suprise.
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It should be Blackbeard. Have him get a heartattack from his obesity as he's about to join the war his heart stops and he drops dead.
Then we find out that's how Whitebeard wins his fights he just uses his haki to cause diseases.
To me it sounds more like he has the Death Note Death Note Fruit.
There has been something bothering me about Roger being dead. For some reason I think it's not true. I don't know why I just got this feeling that somehow he didn't get executed and a decoy was planted in his place by the Government cause they would be too embarassed to admit that he got away from them on their watch. Ya never know what Oda might wanna cook up as a suprise.
Yeeeah. If it was a fake it would kinda make his whole before-death speak kinda anticlimatic and lame.
When hiding in the shadows and reading on this forum, I usually think "aaaww, don't be so harsh on poor Oda" when I read Greg's angry-posts. But this time I totally agree. Oda SHOULD be able to kill characters introduced just to be "killed."
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I wonder what the general response would be here if Oda twists the story that way that Luffy is the reincarnation of Roger.^^
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I wonder what the general response would be here if Oda twists the story that way that Luffy is the reincarnation of Roger.^^
Exactly what I've been thinking. You know - identical hairstyles, identical smiles, haki, will of the D, fun loving attitude etc. But I don't think Oda's gonna do that. But even if they aren't the same, they're somehow related. I guess it has something to do with the will of the D
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Exactly what I've been thinking. You know - identical hairstyles, identical smiles, haki, will of the D, fun loving attitude etc. But I don't think Oda's gonna do that. But even if they aren't the same, they're somehow related. I guess it has something to do with the will of the D
Yeah, but some of the things in the manga really make me thing that this might be it. Rogers years of absence of which not only Rayleigh knew what happened there only to hear a "I won't die partner". Of course normally you would just think of the immortal spirit that will infect generations, but when I think of Crocus' words "perhaps he is the one we've been waiting for" statement about Luffy I wonder if Roger didn't have other plans. I mean, in the end Roger didn't really have it all.
I mean Enies Lobby stood for 800 years. And Fisher Tiger is known to be the one who rivaled the Tenryubito. And it appears that Impel Down wasn't stormed yet either. And Luffy does it all. In other words, Luffy does what Roger most probably didn't do. So yeah, if he'd be an reincarnation of him he'd practically have all those adventures now which he didn't have the first time. Basically he set himself the groundwork with his death. But then again, it's just yet another stupid theory. ;)
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Goku can't stand SSJ3 for more than X time because it will eat up his life force on earth!
Does this even matter? If he would let his life force drop so low that it is at the point that he dies, he will probably be back in ten episodes anyway, dieing in Dragonball doesn't matter what so ever.
Actually, if you look at it this way, Akira Toryiama didn't kill anyone either. This was shown during the great saiyaman saga where Freeza and cell returned. If someone was really dead they couldn't return would by my reasoning. But dieing in DB just means starting with another life somewhere else and anyone can always come back. Goku died multiple times, So did kururin and yamcha and tien and picollo and. . . .Remember, remember, the 5th of November
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Does this even matter? If he would let his life force drop so low that it is at the point that he dies, he will probably be back in ten episodes anyway, dieing in Dragonball doesn't matter what so ever.
Actually, if you look at it this way, Akira Toryiama didn't kill anyone either. This was shown during the great saiyaman saga where Freeza and cell returned. If someone was really dead they couldn't return would by my reasoning. But dieing in DB just means starting with another life somewhere else and anyone can always come back. Goku died multiple times, So did kururin and yamcha and tien and picollo and. . . .See this is where you get it mixed up. In most fictional stories when dealing with death an author has to decide how they will approach death. You can kill characters and make them dead and dead for good and then there's the always predictable plot twist that is used by many when you bring the person back to life(and basically retcon how the character died and explain how they survived). That tool or deus ex machina in story telling has been used a great deal. Toriyama took it to far where as it wouldn't matter if you died anyway. I don't know who said it but the way he handles death is worse than what Oda does imo.
The way Oda handles death and how it correlates to the fans also has a down side to it, since fodder can return or better yet the lack of thinking a main character might die basically makes death non-existent save characters from the past. I always looked at it that Oda didn't want to indulge in that cheap trick of killing a character and then down the line bing him back. It rarely has the shock factor anymore, so his solution was to not kill anyone(for the most part). Even the ppl that the fans assumed Oda killed are killed in such a passive manner it doesn't register as something impactful in a reader's mind. I know I didn't flinch when those marines on the Buster Call ships were allegedly killed.
You either kill him and they're dead for good, kill them and they come back(in some shape or form), and what Oda has popularized is not kill anyone at all
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@Zik:
and what Oda has popularized is not kill anyone at all
Well, not killing anyone "in the present story" if I might say.
Cause a lot of people died in OP but none (is Mr. 11 dead ? does the Merry count as a "character" ?) in the actual time of the story.
So far in the "past story", at least thousands died :
-Gol D. Roger
-Bellemere and other murders from Arlong
-People from the ships of Sanji and Zeff
-Kuina
-Higuma and one of his mate
-Banchina, Usopp's mother
-Dr. Hililuk
-Thatch
-Tom
-People from Ohara and Saulo
-Rumbar Pirates crew including Brook himself (…..........)
-those I forgot….However I agree with the fact that some "actual" characters should be dead. But again I think this is Oda's style to not kill characters from the present timeline of the story; it makes a huge difference compare to other mangas and I like it this way.
But I'd love to see an important character -a crew member ?- die suddenly and no one beeing able to predict it! It'll be one of those genius moments that I love this manga !! :happy:
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I say Spandam after he got crushed by Franky's mad elephant tossing skills XDDD
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The fact that Pell and Conis' father didn't die still annoys me, and cheapens the moments where they seemed to die. I understand that Oda may not like to kill off his characters, but it gets pretty silly at times.
Death can be used very well in a narrative if you know how and when to use it. Look at Berserk; anyone in that series can die at any given moment. Main characters the auidence grows attached to can be brutally slaughtered many many chapters down the line, and that crap's impactful. That's how you use death.
My deviantART|Project A.F.T.E.R.|My YouTube|Money and Power|AP Art Topic
Originally Posted by Buccaneer
Celine Dion post in the MK thread. I wish I could neg you.
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Well, not killing anyone "in the present story" if I might say.
sigh
I didn't say Oda doesn't kill anyone, I'm saying what he has popularized is not killling anyone at all. I'm focusing on the no deaths in the present story, the majority of the past deaths have no impact on the reader unless they're very susceptible to sad moments. Most of the past deaths are just used as plot devices for characters in the present like Saul for Robin or Roger and the whole current pirate age.You wasted your time typing out a list of characters who died in the past since I already knew that.
Death can be used very well in a narrative if you know how and when to use it. Look at Berserk; anyone in that series can die at any given moment. Main characters the auidence grows attached to can be brutally slaughtered many many chapters down the line, and that crap's impactful. That's how you use death.
Preach! Chuuuuuch….... Tabernacle!!!
Like I've said I think Oda doesn't want to get caught up in the whole kill a character and then bring him on some deus ex machina shit, since it is so predictable. I'm not sure how much you can love each and every character of your story, makes him sound a little crazy since in a way that can be looked at as his flaw. I question if he can pull off the use of death like how it's used in Berserk or other mangas like Gantz(main character killed off although the whole bring someone back to life DEM lol but cmon Kei had to reutrn) that use death pretty good.
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@Zik:
sigh
I didn't say Oda doesn't kill anyone, I'm saying what he has popularized is not killling anyone at all. I'm focusing on the no deaths in the present story, the majority of the past deaths have no impact on the reader unless they're very susceptible to sad moments. Most of the past deaths are just used as plot devices for characters in the present like Saul for Robin or Roger and the whole current pirate age.You wasted your time typing out a list of characters who died in the past since I already knew that.
Preach! Chuuuuuch….... Tabernacle!!!
Like I've said I think Oda doesn't want to get caught up in the whole kill a character and then bring him on some deus ex machina shit, since it is so predictable. I'm not sure how much you can love each and every character of your story, makes him sound a little crazy since in a way that can be looked at as his flaw. I question if he can pull off the use of death like how it's used in Berserk or other mangas like Gantz(main character killed off although the whole bring someone back to life DEM lol but cmon Kei had to reutrn) that use death pretty good.
OH yes he will kill someone… everyone kill somebody in someday, its human nature.
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OH yes he will kill someone… everyone kill somebody in someday, its human nature.
Everyone kill somebody in someday????
I wonder who I will kill someday…
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Everyone kill somebody in someday????
I wonder who I will kill someday…
That is what we wonder here like thread title says. Wait it whatta OP doing there, oh shi–-
Well, i think Pell should be dead. Not resting in fracking hot pools.
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Zik, Oda does kill, but as i said, Oda doesn't show the death entirely, in case he wants them to be back.
Let me give an example:
Oda: Hum… i want to kill Bellamy, but i won't show him dying, just in case i want him back.
[We see DoFlamingo making the Knife guy kill Bellamy](Later)
Oda: Bah… i want Bellamy back now...
[Bellamy comes into scene, showing he survived]The 3 best examples for this technique are:
-Pell
-Igaram
-Conis father -
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Zik, Oda does kill, but as i said, Oda doesn't show the death entirely, in case he wants them to be back.
I've already addressed that in previous posts, thats one. I've already talked about the lame plot twist that doesn't have the effect it once had.
Also the Bellamy example isn't that good, if there is no proof of death you can't say he's dead. I never assumed Bellamy was dead since everything happened off screen.
I really don't see how the other 3 pl you named are an example of that technique since they all came back in the same arc. the point of the technique is to use the character ppl thought were dead later on in the storyline. Conis' father is something everyone gripes about along with Pell. I don't recall when Igaram was dead or thought to be dead and then came back. Maybe you mean he should've died from something.
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Robin blew up the ship Igram was on when he was impersonating Vivi to let them escape. I don't really recall when he did this but I think it was at whiskey peak.
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Yes, it was at Whiskey Peak.
And its the same thing.
We did see the final blow , we didn't see them death in the floor, though.
Exactly the same thing. -
And I find this…great just great...
The Unluckies appear during the Whiskey Peak arc and are later seen in the Little Garden arc when they are sent to check up on Mr. 3 and Miss Goldenweek. Instead they encounter Sanji who is answering a phone call from Mr. 0.
Mr. 13 records the appearance of Nami, Zoro and LuffyThey attempt to assassinate Sanji but fail miserably. Though the two were thought to be dead (Sanji twisted Miss Friday's neck until it snapped and Mr. 13 was kicked into the side of Mr. 3's wax house so hard it left an imprint), it has recently been revealed in the "Meet Baroque" mini-arc that the Unluckies survived their encounter with Sanji and were used by the Marines to make drawings of the Baroque Works agents that were not captured in Arabasta (using a hot bowl of Donburi as encouragement). However, it is unknown what was done with them afterwards.
If a neck is twisted until it snapps that should be it not some resurection of jesus…Why was the vulture needed to be alive...
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Hell yeah, that was one my biggest disappointments on that matter. I mean, Miss Friday was not even a person, so Oda could have killed it off as he always does with animals (like with the seaking in the most recent chapter 526).
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but some characters DO die in one piece
who says that some of them didnt die? -
I'm surpise, no one mention of Sanji killing Satori and Wyper killing Shura yet.
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Its easier to kill said Oda…well Oda I say sometimes Its easier for you not to kill, so you dont have to explain, so kids dont cry, so dreams live on and so that everyone doesnt worry...
I want to start worrying again Oda, dont you understand it...
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@zik:
the majority of the past deaths have no impact on the reader unless they're very susceptible to sad moments.
The entire POINT of the past deaths was to have an impact on the reader. The ENTIRE point was to make you feel sad, and feel for the character whose flashback was there.
What the hell is wrong with you if you don't get that a woman getting killed in front of her adopted children is supposed to make you sad and have an impact on you.
Like I've said I think Oda doesn't want to get caught up in the whole kill a character and then bring him on some deus ex machina shit, since it is so predictable.
He does this endlessly, Pell, Pagaya, virtually every villain…
I'm not sure how much you can love each and every character of your story, makes him sound a little crazy since in a way that can be looked at as his flaw. I question if he can pull off the use of death like how it's used in Berserk or other mangas like Gantz(main character killed off although the whole bring someone back to life DEM lol but cmon Kei had to reutrn) that use death pretty good.
Berserk is a good example, Gantz on the other hand is probably the worst example you could have thought of.
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He does this endlessly, Pell, Pagaya, virtually every villain…
I'm talking about killing characters and bringing them back in to the storyline like other works of fiction do. The whole "Oh he died at the end of that arc and now has returned to either face the protagonist again or for some reason is helping the protagonist" or any other predictable and/or lame tactic that is used when a character dies and is brought back.
The entire POINT of the past deaths was to have an impact on the reader. The ENTIRE point was to make you feel sad, and feel for the character whose flashback was there.
What the hell is wrong with you if you don't get that a woman getting killed in front of her adopted children is supposed to make you sad and have an impact on you.
LOL never really registered for me. Robin's mom, Saul, who else? meh to that. If it's in the past it really has no impact on me since I know nobody is gonna die in the present, it's almost as if it didn't happen.
Hell at this rate Oda is going I wouldn't be surprised if these past dead characters were brought back somehow
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Everyone stop bitching and enjoy the manga for what it is.
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I'm talking about killing characters and bringing them back in to the storyline like other works of fiction do. The whole "Oh he died at the end of that arc and now has returned to either face the protagonist again or for some reason is helping the protagonist" or any other predictable and/or lame tactic that is used when a character dies and is brought back.
You don't get the idea of bringing something back. It's every bit as bad to pretend something died, than SURPRISE NO IT DIDNT. Then to actually revive a character.
If there is a difference it's extremely small.LOL never really registered for me. Robin's mom, Saul, who else? meh to that. If it's in the past it really has no impact on me since I know nobody is gonna die in the present, it's almost as if it didn't happen.
I don't care if your muy macho roboto el emotionless, or whatever you fancy yourself as, it's just plain stupid to not realize Oda's goal there.
Why are you even reading fiction. Go write some java code.
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You don't get the idea of bringing something back. It's every bit as bad to pretend something died, than SURPRISE NO IT DIDNT. Then to actually revive a character.
If there is a difference it's extremely small.I never said bringing something back was any less bad as pretending something died. Stop making shit up. Plus you just admitted the chance of there being a difference(whether it's small or not who gives a fuck), stfu then…....
I don't care if your muy macho roboto el emotionless, or whatever you fancy yourself as, it's just plain stupid to not realize Oda's goal there.
Why are you even reading fiction. Go write some java code.
It's not about being macho lol, if you know nobody important will die in the present storyline how can you develop a sense of sadness for characters in the past that died? I'm not saying I'm not aware what he's trying to do I said it has little to no impact. It's like okay you feel sorry for Brook but his existence directly negates any sense of worry that he won't succeed in his new goal
Like I said Oda's use of death leaves a lot to be desired.
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@Deltron:
You don't get the idea of bringing something back. It's every bit as bad to pretend something died, than SURPRISE NO IT DIDNT. Then to actually revive a character.
If there is a difference it's extremely small.I don't care if your muy macho roboto el emotionless, or whatever you fancy yourself as, it's just plain stupid to not realize Oda's goal there.
Why are you even reading fiction. Go write some java code.
As far as I'm concerned, reviving the dead is much worse than letting someone survive something that should have killed him. Death revival takes away the impact of death making you think "So he died? Big deal!" At least with the other one, you can just think that he was a lucky motherfucker without removing any of the impact of an actual death.
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I never said bringing something back was any less bad as pretending something died. Stop making shit up. Plus you just admitted the chance of there being a difference(whether it's small or not who gives a fuck), stfu then…....
The whole point being a difference that doesn't matter.
Oda's doing the same crime your saying he isn't.It's not about being macho lol, if you know nobody important will die in the present storyline how can you develop a sense of sadness for characters in the past that died?
Your only sad about things that surprise you? What the hell?
I'm not saying I'm not aware what he's trying to do I said it has little to no impact.
Woman.Shot.In.Front.Of.Kids.
EH, SAW IT COMIN' PRETTY MUCH, HURR
It's like okay you feel sorry for Brook but his existence directly negates any sense of worry that he won't succeed in his new goal
His entire crew dying isn't sad because it hurts his dream dingus.
Like I said Oda's use of death leaves a lot to be desired.
I don't think you get to comment on this issue anymore.
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Your only sad about things that surprise you? What the hell?
I guess so from your poor reasoning.
His entire crew dying isn't sad because it hurts his dream dingus
What? lol okay….....
I don't think you get to comment on this issue anymore.
Just because you're more susceptible to predictable "sad scenes" in OP doesn't mean they are not and lack impact. If you know the only sad death scenes will be in the past it don't mean shit overall. I dunno maybe this is your first manga or something.
The whole point being a difference that doesn't matter.
So says the person who initially couldn't tell the difference. Ha!
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Come on Chopper's past was sad, Zik you need a heart, maybe some courage and a brain, OFF TO SEE THE WIZARD, THE WONDERFUL WIZARD OF OZ.
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Come on Chopper's past was sad, Zik you need a heart, maybe some courage and a brain, OFF TO SEE THE WIZARD, THE WONDERFUL WIZARD OF OZ.
I'm not saying it wasn't sad but when the pattern of ppl dying is only in the past. The deaths have less of an impact and cheapen for me the sadness one should feel. It's like you know Oda is gonna kill somebody when you see a flashback for somebody and then it loses most of its luster.
Kuina, Bellmere, Usopp's mom, Dr. Hirkulik, Ohara, Tom, and Brook's crew. Who wants to bet that the next nakama's past will be filled with death? I mean I'm sorry I didn't connect with most of these characters before they died seeing as most were foreshadowed and a pattern was spotted early on.
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Iceberg really should have died, or should have been injured less. He got shot '3 times in the front and twice in back" or vice versa, and then got shot again the next night.
And then later got up to fix a ship in a torrential storm, what a trooper. -
@Low-fi:
Iceberg really should have died, or should have been injured less. He got shot '3 times in the front and twice in back" or vice versa, and then got shot again the next night.
And then later got up to fix a ship in a torrential storm, what a trooper.Sounds like 50 cent to me
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So, you ARE only sad if it's surprising. Because of some "pattern" which doesn't have anything to do with the actual details of the scenario twhich make it sad.. it isn't sad for you.
Well, I guess most of us will have to agree to disagree on that.
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Marie`s fiance (1) = Tenryuubito shoots him is out of the topic we saw zoro asking for a hospital nearby to heal the man
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I think all of One Piece characters (except for they who already dead in the past) are death proof. lol
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So, you ARE only sad if it's surprising. Because of some "pattern" which doesn't have anything to do with the actual details of the scenario twhich make it sad.. it isn't sad for you.
Well, I guess most of us will have to agree to disagree on that.
You're kind of misusing the whole surprising thing. Once a flashback starts and I get in to the story, I pretty much see the death coming. Maybe if Oda didn't just go to death all the time to make someone's past sad I'd be more susceptible.
Sanji's past was quite sad and Zeff didn't die in the end. Now some of the ppl who did die during the storm weren't the focus so that didn't matter much.
So yea, with most of the deaths in the past having to do with some sad story it doesn't hit me as it should.
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Death note Death note fruit hah. As for the second part we see Gol D. Roger getting payed money for faking his own death and sharing spliting it with Oda for putting in that beginning part with him in the intro.
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Come on Chopper's past was sad, Zik you need a heart, maybe some courage and a brain, OFF TO SEE THE WIZARD, THE WONDERFUL WIZARD OF OZ.
ha!
panderman should be dead
common…....he's been round for years, sailing the sea's and wot not:blink:
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yo' mama
16 chars
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He is dead! We saw his gravestone in Thrillerbark.
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I think Whitebeards gonna get killed by Blackbeard.
