Same thing:
[hide]@Ivotas:
I could say the same to you. What about the "it most not be anyone special" part?
You are completely missing the point. I agree that Buggy is not someone special, but he has a bounty. That means he is a known pirate. You cannot refute that. The guy said he could look him up, and if he did he could verify that the ship belongs to Buggy the Pirate, that if captured would get seastone cuffs for having a Devil's Fruit. There is no if, and, or but about it. If you failed to seastone cuff someone with a Devil's Fruit power, sent them to a huge prison, and then that pirate escaped for your failure you would be fired and thrown out. So logically, you would seastone cuff them no matter what DF they have.
@Ivotas:
I just proved the exact opposite. If you argue that point I take it you just do it for the sake of it.
This is ludicrous. Are you seriously suggesting that they don't have Buggy in their system? Are you suggesting that they wouldn't give him seastone cuffs despite his having a Devil's Fruit??? I really don't believe you do, so I fail to see how you have proven anything. I think you just happened to misunderstand what I was trying to point out.
@Ivotas:
You're really making a big deal out of the most random part of that dialog.
I'm really not. It is really simple: Buggy is a pirate. Buggy has a bounty. Buggy has a Devil's Fruit. They would look Buggy's flag up. They would know who Buggy is. They would know Buggy has a Devil's Fruit. They would use seastone cuffs. That is my 'big deal' and why I pointed it out. Your claim means little due to their rush, and the fact remains that they can and would have looked up and identified Buggy, which ultimately would lead to him cuffed with seastone. So…....?
@Ivotas:
I know that you included him. But your whole argumentation makes it seems as if you fight with your entire life against it. Take a step back and look at it yourself. I'm sure you'll get what I mean.
Nope. From the beginning I have wanted Buggy to escape during the chaos. I want him to escape via his own means. What I "fight with my entire life" is that if Buggy didn't have seastone cuffs and thus escaped due to the Marines' failure then I will be disappointed. So the whole conversation with Sengoku can very well include a setup for Buggy's escape, but it sure as hell has more meaning for our protagonist who is going there for the sole purpose of saving Ace as well as showing Kizaru failed at his duties. We needed to know that 500 pirates were there and causing a commotion because Luffy was going there; not because Buggy might escape off screen. That would be ridiculous. You really think Oda made that entire scene just to make it possible for Buggy to escape? What about Luffy? Have you forgotten he is up against the impossible and needs all the help he can get? Like, say, too many pirates being processed at once?
@Ivotas:
Funny to hear that from you because one talkback thread before you were having a discussion of same nature only that you played my role and Greg played your role. Back then it was also about disappointment at a certain scene that you argued against. ;)
From a bird's eye view it would seem ironic, would it not? Truth of the matter is these are very different cases. A few weeks back I defended the manga because I felt there was a good reason to defend it. I explained that Oda can and has made mistakes, but pointed out that I see nothing wrong with rebutting someone else's claim that one thing or another is a mistake. Greg thought something was weak that I had reason to believe may or may not be weak. We reached an agreement: we would wait. The next week Greg brought it up again as if we had never discussed it, so I asked him to wait before making judgment so we could avoid having negative influence on people before something happens. At the time, Greg was not using "if this happens…" but was stating it as a verifiable failure on Oda's part. In this case, I have said every time that IF it happens I will be disappointed, and that so far none of your evidence has swayed my view. You are welcome to discuss this with me and try to sway my view, but this case is much more black and white than the issue Greg and I discussed. Again, we all know without a doubt Buggy should have seastone cuffs. We also know they can look-up pirates. Buggy should undeniably have seastone cuffs since he has a Devil's Fruit. If the Marines overlooked that, and Oda didn't have an amazing explanation for it, I will be disappointed.
@Ivotas:
Did I ever say he shouldn't be cuffed? I'm only bringing arguments as to why there's no necessary need to seastone-cuff him in all this commotion.
First and foremost I meant seastone cuffed. Buggy should be undeniably seastone cuffed. We know that. The Marines should by all accounts know that. If they don't, why? If there isn't an extremely good explanation, I will be disappointed. Second, you are again going off the assumption that the commotion at Impel Down should play a part in what cuffs Buggy got when he was arrested; however, all we know is that there aren't enough staff to document all the prisoners being received at Impel Down, which took place after Buggy had been caught and should have been cuffed.
@Ivotas:
Correct Oda didn't and my point is that he didn't in order for the report to include the 500 pirates thing.
So Oda wrote that scene in regards to Buggy, and it had nothing to do with Luffy arriving there and little or nothing to do with Kizaru's failure and Kidd and Law's escape…? If that is what you want to believe, by all means please do. I see it differently. Either way, doesn't change the fact that Buggy should be seastone cuffed. He is a criminal, has a bounty, and has a Devil's Fruit that could cause a lot of havoc inside Impel Down.
@Ivotas:
Would the Marine really waste their researches on such an unimportant guy?
Yes. Yes he would. He would be an idiot if he didn't. He was about to in the manga had Momonga not told him to forget it due to their rush. First off, they are not going to process a criminal and just label him John Doe if they can look him up in their system. Second, he is a pirate and they should/would check for a bounty, and we all know Buggy has a bounty. Third, regardless of the bounty he has – HE HAS A BOUNTY, so he would be treated a little more carefully, which would lead to their knowing he has a Devil's Fruit. They would then use seastone cuffs.
@Ivotas:
To me everything works fine with him not being research worthy to the WG/Marine because he's simply unimportant.
Marine: "Hmm, looks like we have another pirate here. I could look him up, but I will just use regular cuffs since I don't recognize him. No point in wasting my time."
[ – Twenty Minutes Later -- ]
Buggy escapes, kills 5 Marines, sets 30 prisoners free, and steals some gold
Marine: "Whoops, guess I should have looked him up."
Donald Trump: "YOU'RE FIRED!!"
@Ivotas:
Isn't that the reason why you discussed things with Greg last week.
Nope. I will say again that it was different. I agreed with Greg that if it wasn't answered it would be weak, but asked him to wait. In the end, Oda answered it like I knew he would, and Greg was still personally disappointed. While I do not think it was weak writing and disagree with Greg's personal opinion, Greg is more than allowed to feel the way he does. The only issue I took up with Greg was waiting to hear whether or not Oda touches on it before passing judgment.
Edit: Sesshy reminds me of something I forgot to bring up. The 500 Pirate commotion would have begun a few days prior to the announcement that Buggy had escaped, so why would it have taken Buggy (and the Marines for that matter) so long to escape using his powers if he had not been seastone cuffed? I say that is evidence to say he was cuffed. To which I am glad. Also, pleeease note that I am not upset/purturbed/irritated/sarcastic/etc. I am seriously trying to have as nuetral a discussion with you as possible. Maybe the occasional light humor or facetious comment, but nothing aimed to offend.[/hide]@Sesshy:
Has there been any reasonable non-comedic non-Buggy is teh pwnz0r ideas of how he got out?
I'm not sure I voiced it as a theory, but I sure hope he escapes during some sort of confusion. I believe the "commotion" would have been days prior, so he should already be in a holding cell. Perhaps while being moved from one place to another…? I just hope he uses his brains.