He better not die. Not after Kakashi bit the dust.
is it even confirmed that Kakashi kicked the bucket?
Naruto Discussion V [Re-Re-Redux]
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is it even confirmed that Kakashi kicked the bucket?
No not really but fingers crossed! He really has become boring as fuck lately and him dying will add even more fuel to the fire for when Naruto vs Pain actually happens!
Naruto's pissed as it is already with jiraiya dying imagine him after hearing Kakashi is dead aswell!
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No not really but fingers crossed! He really has become boring as fuck lately and him dying will add even more fuel to the fire for when Naruto vs Pain actually happens!
Naruto's pissed as it is already with jiraiya dying imagine him after hearing Kakashi is dead aswell!
Not with such a lame death, he won't.
Or shouldn't-_-
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Kakashi needed to die but just not that lame, he needs to go out like a savage just like how Jiraiya went out.
Now as for the spoiler: LOL all hell pain needs to do is sexy no jutsu against ebisu and konohamaru and he wins, nose bleed galore.
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Kakashi needed to die but just not that lame, he needs to go out like a savage just like how Jiraiya should have went out.
Now as for the spoiler: LOL all hell pain needs to do is sexy no jutsu against ebisu and konohamaru and he wins, nose bleed galore.
Fixed
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Kakashi needed to die but just not that lame, he needs to go out like a savage just like how Jiraiya went out.
Now as for the spoiler: LOL all hell pain needs to do is sexy no jutsu against ebisu and konohamaru and he wins, nose bleed galore.
Kakashi is out of the J-mans weight class, and Pain is in a class above the J-man so if that happen it would have been stupid, If kakashi does kick the bucket it would be legit.
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Kakashi is out of the J-mans weight class, and Pain is in a class above the J-man so if that happen it would have been stupid, If kakashi does kick the bucket it would be legit.
He could still have a good, epic death against an opponent out of his league. Many other series have this.
At any rate, I don't want things to make sense, I want things to make sense and be entertaining.
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He could still have a good, epic death against an opponent out of his league. Many other series have this.
At any rate, I don't want things to make sense, I want things to make sense and be entertaining.
How? with out depowering the powerful opponent? Not to mention we don't even know if he's dead. The a$$ kicking Pain gave Kakashi was proof to being out of his weight class, and him almost eating a nail, and being in the state he is in was to show that he will get killed with little to no trouble in this class. Kaksahi having an epic fight against one out of his class would not even make sense.
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This post is deleted!
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How? with out depowering the powerful opponent? Not to mention we don't even know if he's dead. The a$$ kicking Pain gave Kakashi was proof to being out of his weight class, and him almost eating a nail, and being in the state he is in was to show that he will get killed with little to no trouble in this class. Kaksahi having an epic fight against one out of his class would not even make sense but kill the story and what other characters have done.
Erm by Kishimoto using his brains and writing it? Other series have managed this much so he has no excuse not to be able to. It wouldn't have killed anything. And I said epic death not epic fight, don't misquote me. Though having an epic fight and an epic death against an out-of-league opponent is also doable. If the mangaka actually tried.
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That would not even make sense, as I said before. You basically want Kish to contradict himself, about what his character can do and can not do. Having a good fight against an opponent, grants an epic death, and that something Kaksahi can't get for fighting one out of his weight class.
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That would not even make sense, as I said before. You basically want Kish to contradict himself, about what his character can do and can not do. Having a good fight against an opponent, grants an epic death.
Erm no, other series managed this without contradicting themselves.
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Yo Batter, I agree with you but if you're going to repeat the same thing over and over again you need to back it up with proof.
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There must be something wrong with the forum's database. About once every two weeks I check out this thread but since a few months all I get is the same page of Jinbei vs Luffy Batter. I already tried emptying my browser cache but it's not working :sad:
Yibis One Piece Fansubs
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So, whats wrong with using a forum for what its for?
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I was actually waiting for him to ask for these series so I could slam them in his face but if all he's going to do is selectively quote me (in effect, losing the argument) without actually looking at my points of discussion I might as well comply with your request.
OK, off the top of my head, Yu Yu Hakusho (Genkai vs Toguro), Air Gear (Spitfire+Aen clock? vs Nike + Sora), Jojo's Bizarre Adventure (just got into this but there's already Zeppelli the 1st's death). I've never read HunterxHunter (mostly due to I'm afraid of getting into it just to suffer one of Togashi's infamous hiatuses) but from what I've heard about constant character deaths about guys you'd never have imagined would die and how hopeless situations really are hopeless, I'm sure there's a couple;). These are off the top of my head but if these aren't enough, I could trawl through onemanga to refresh my memories of other series where this occured.
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This post is deleted!
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See, now Jinbei has lost. You have effectively won the argument.
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I was actually waiting for me to ask for these series so I could slam them in his face but if all he's going to do is selectively quote me without actually looking at my points of discussion I might as well comply.
You and your cheerleader have yet to answer any of my questions nor debunk my points.
OK, off the top of my head, Yu Yu Hakusho (Genkai vs Toguro), Air Gear (Spitfire+Aen clock? vs Nike + Sora), Jojo's Bizarre Adventure (just got into this but there's already Zeppelli the 1st's death). I've never read HunterxHunter (mostly due to I'm afraid of getting into it just to suffer one of Togashi's infamous hiatuses) but from what I've heard about constant character deaths about guys you'd never have imagined would die and how hopeless situations really are hopeless, I'm sure there's a couple;). These are off the top of my head but if these aren't enough, I could trawl through onemanga to refresh my memories of other series where this occured.
Don't read air gear/HunterXHuter or Jojo so your going to have to explain those, and Mind bring up, a battle that is comparable to Kaksahi vs Pain situation? Coz you still have yet to explain how Kshi would be able to give you what you ask for with out contradict himself, about what his character can do and can not do. The only battle I'm familiar with that you have named is Genkai vs Toguro and its been a while since I see it, and if IIRC that is not comparable to Kaksahi vs Pain situation.
Kakashi's death at this point did show off some cool moves form Kakashi, and by sacrificing his life to save Chouji did prove his integrity. What we're lacking is the impact of his death. When Asuma died, we saw shots of everyone in his life–his team and Kurenai. When Jiraya died, though he was alone he reflected on the people he knew in his life, plus we more recently got to see Naruto's reaction. The problem I have with this "death" of Kakashi is that no one important to him knows about it--his body is just alone in a field of debris somewhere. Because of this, in addition to the fact I can't see a fatal wound on him, I'm hoping he' just unconscious.
Then maybe you should wait and see how his situations plays out, Before jumping to conclusions.
See, now Jinbei has lost. You have effectively won the argument.
Then maybe you should wait and see how his situations plays out, Before jumping to conclusions.
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You and your cheerleader have yet to answer any or my questions nor debunk my points.
Already did. Give up.
Don't read air gear/HunterXHuter or Jojo so your going to have to explain those, and Mind bring up, a battle that is comparable to Kaksahi vs Pain situation? Coz you still have yet to explain how Kshi would be able to give you what you ask for with out contradict himself, about what his character can do and can not do. The only battle I'm familiar with that you have named is Genkai vs Toguro and its been a while since I see it, and if IIRC that is not comparable to Kaksahi vs Pain situation.
By that logic, nothing can be compared since no other series has two ninjas called Kakashi and Pein fighting with those techniques. It basically involves people dieing a good, epic death and even fighting a good, epic fight with people that are way stronger than themselves. At any rate, ignorance is not an excuse, other mangakas have accomplished this to great effect, if Kishimoto is as great as you think he is, something like this should have been peanuts for him.
Kakashi's death at this point did show off some cool moves form Kakashi, and by sacrificing his life to save Chouji did prove his integrity. What we're lacking is the impact of his death. When Asuma died, we saw shots of everyone in his life–his team and Kurenai. When Jiraya died, though he was alone he reflected on the people he knew in his life, plus we more recently got to see Naruto's reaction. The problem I have with this "death" of Kakashi is that no one important to him knows about it--his body is just alone in a field of debris somewhere. Because of this, in addition to the fact I can't see a fatal wound on him, I'm hoping he' just unconscious.
I never wrote that. I hope you're not implying that I did. If you're not then I have no idea what you're doing quoting that since it is irrelevant to this argument.
Then maybe you should wait and see how his situations plays out, Before jumping to conclusions.
Believe me, I'm with you there. I'm so hoping against hope that Kakashi didn't die because it would be the shittiest character death ever. Regardless, if he did die in such a shitty way, it would be due to Kishimoto's sucky and lazy writing since other mangaka have managed such deaths just fine.
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Kakashi is out of the J-mans weight class, and Pain is in a class above the J-man so if that happen it would have been stupid, If Kakashi does kick the bucket it would be legit.
As it may be legitimate story wise, in presentation and in respect to the character, it is very poorly played out. Kakashi is a character that has been in the story over the entirety of the manga and has been thought of as one of the most powerful character in the series. His sudden death last chapter does not do his character justice. To draw a paralell, the situation is similar to as if Eiichiro Oda decided to kill off Zoro during the After Battle on Thriller Bark. Kuma was out of his league entirely and defeated Zoro. had Zoro truly died from Kuma's Fatigue Sphere then that would be a poorly handled death.
That would not even make sense, as I said before. You basically want Kish to contradict himself, about what his character can do and can not do. Having a good fight against an opponent, grants an epic death, and that something Kaksahi can't get for fighting one out of his weight class.
How? with out depowering the powerful opponent? Not to mention we don't even know if he's dead. The a$$ kicking Pain gave Kakashi was proof to being out of his weight class, and him almost eating a nail, and being in the state he is in was to show that he will get killed with little to no trouble in this class. Kaksahi having an epic fight against one out of his class would not even make sense.
Putting up a good fight doesn't mean that some one is equal, it just means that person is rsiliant enough to hang on to life so as to not get bitched out by their opponent. Enter Kuwabara. Kuwabara during the demon tournament got his ass kick on a regular basis, but it wasn't an outstanding underwhelming loss, such as Kakashi's recent one. All Kishimoto had to do was have Kakashi hold his own for a little bit longer and to damage Pain a bit. I also believe that you're hyping Pain up too much.
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Already did. Give up.
links?
By that logic, nothing can be compared since no other series has two ninjas called Kakashi and Pein fighting with those techniques.
I never asked for that, but if you need me to spoon feed you on this I will be happy to?
It basically involves people dieing a good, epic death and even fighting a good, epic fight with people that are way stronger than themselves. At any rate, ignorance is not an excuse, other mangakas have accomplished this to great effect, if Kishimoto is as great as you think he is, something like this should have been peanuts for him.
That would not even make sense, as I said before. You basically want Kish to contradict himself, about what his character can do and can not do. Having a good fight against an opponent, grants an epic death.
That something Kaksahi can't get, for being so out classed! its like an ant fighting against a dragon, the dragon is not going to go all out to kill a ant who can;t even give him a decent fight. Pain vs Kaksahi was already measured against all the other tough guys Pain has fought out of Kakashi's weight class.
I never wrote that. I hope you're not implying that I did. If you're not then I have no idea what you're doing quoting that since it is irrelevant to this argument.
Oh so looks like you edited, your last post then.
Believe me, I'm with you there. I'm so hoping against hope that Kakashi didn't die because it would be the shittiest character death ever. Regardless, if he did die in such a shitty way, it would be due to Kishimoto's sucky and lazy writing since other mangaka have managed such deaths just fine.
Thats all up to taste and opinion, and the good or bad character deaths usual depend on the situations.
As it may be legitimate story wise, in presentation and in respect to the character, it is very poorly played out.Kakashi is a character that has been in the story over the entirety of the manga and has been thought of as one of the most powerful character in the series. His sudden death last chapter does not do his character justice.
If kakashi was one of the most powerful characters in the series then Kishi would have not handle him like he did, and kishi sudden a$$ kicking he wrote for kakashi did do him justice, for the simple fact that Kishi didn't pull any punches for kakashi, and he still managed to bring down a Pain. How The fight turned out was legitimate to the story and to kakashi and his power, and for Pain. Was it ever confirmed that kakashi died?
To draw a paralell, the situation is similar to as if Eiichiro Oda decided to kill off Zoro during the After Battle on Thriller Bark. Kuma was out of his league entirely and defeated Zoro. had Zoro truly died from Kuma's Fatigue Sphere then that would be a poorly handled death.
Eiichiro Oda don't kill, but if he did, Zoro is someone who is well an equal to Luffy and his damage soak is godly him not dying is legit. but if you hand that situation to someone other then Zoro who has shown no damage soak feats, and they survive it would be bad writing.
Putting up a good fight doesn't mean that some one is equal, it just means that person is rsiliant enough to hang on to life so as to not get bitched out by their opponent. Enter Kuwabara. Kuwabara during the demon tournament got his ass kick on a regular basis, but it wasn't an outstanding underwhelming loss, such as Kakashi's recent one. All Kishimoto had to do was have Kakashi hold his own for a little bit longer and to damage Pain a bit. I also believe that you're hyping Pain up too much.
and thats how Kishimoto would contradict his story.
You must not know who Pain is to understand that there was nothing Kakashi could do that he hasn't done to put up a decent fight against Pain.For one Kakashi is a guy who wouldn't dare fight Oro, that is the same weight class the J-man and Tsunade is in, Hanzou the former leader of the Rain is in a league above them 3 (Oro, J-man & Tsundae), Pain killed Hanzou and soloed the rain village all by himself, and he is now wrecking Konoha one of the most powerful villages in the Naruto world, and we have yet to touch the surface on how powerful Pain is. Now your telling me this guy who was scared to fight, no let me make this clear, sh8ting his draws to even make a move against Oro would be able to hold his own against a man in another world of power well beyond Oro, J-man and Tsunade?
Not to mention Kakashi was able to help take down a Pain.
Unf**kwittable!
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There must be something wrong with the forum's database. About once every two weeks I check out this thread but since a few months all I get is the same page of Jinbei vs Luffy Batter. I already tried emptying my browser cache but it's not working :sad:
yah know… i'm with you there. I've been wondering about that myself.
I've just spent the past couple minutes reading this entire argument... and have gained nothing for it.
time to make a sandwich
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links?
Go to OneManga and look at the series I listed
I never asked for that, but if you need me to spoon feed you on this I will be happy to?
What are you drivelling about here?
That something Kaksahi can't get, for being so out classed! its like an ant fighting against a dragon, the dragon is not going to go all out to kill a ant who can;t even give him a decent fight. Pain vs Kaksahi was already measured against all the other tough guys Pain has fought out of Kakashi's weight class.
The other series I mentioned also had ants fighting dragons. In Air Gear, The Sora brothers were like 10x stronger but it was still a good fight and epic death.
Oh so looks like you edited, your last post then.
No I didn't I never wrote any of that, it's not even my writing style though funnily enough it resembles yours-_-
Thats all up to taste and opinion, and the good or bad character deaths usual depend on the situations.
Funny how just now you pulled the subjectivity card and not before. Regardless, Kakashi dying like that is shitty no matter how you slice it.
If kakashi was one of the most powerful characters in the series then Kishi would have not handle him like he did, and kishi sudden a$$ kicking wrote for kakashi did do him justice, for the simple fact that Kishi didn't pull any punches for kakashi. How The fight turned out was legitimate to the story and to kakashi and his power, and for Pain. Was it ever confirmed that he died?
Do you even read Naruto? I think it sucks and even I know how Kakashi ranks on the power scale. Your blind belief in Kishimoto is bordering delusional now. You're also definitely overrating Pain.
Eiichiro Oda don't kill, but if he did, Zoro is someone who is well an equal to Luffy and his damage soak is godly him not dying is legit. but if you hand that situation to someone other then Zoro who has shown no damage soak feats, and they survive it would be bad writing.
You're just grasping at straws now.
and thats how Kishimoto would contradict his story.
You must not know who Pain is to understand that there was nothing Kakashi could do that he hasn't done to put up a decent fight against Pain.For one Kakashi is a guy who wouldn't dare fight Oro, that is the same weight class the J-man and Tsunade is in, Hanzou the former leader of the Rain is in a league above them 3 (Oro, J-man & Tsundae), Pain killed Hanzou and soloed the rain village all by himself, and he is now wrecking Konoha one of the most powerful villages in the Naruto world, and we have yet to touch the surface on how powerful Pain is. Now your telling me this guy who was scared to fight, no let me make this clear, sh8ting his draws to even make a move against Oro would be able to hold his own against a man in another world of power well beyond Oro, J-man and Tsunade?
Not to mention Kakashi was able to help take down a Pain.
Unf**kwittable!
Again other series manage this just fine. If Kishimoto just used his brains a bit and actually tried to write a decent death instead of pulling things out of his ass then it might have actually been a decent death.
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Go to OneManga and look at the series I listed
That don't help your argument.
What are you drivelling about here?
Do you need help as to understanding what i'm asking from you to prove? thats as simple as I can put it.
The other series I mentioned also had ants fighting dragons. In Air Gear, The Sora brothers were like 10x stronger but it was still a good fight and epic death.
Explain. or stfu.
No I didn't I never wrote any of that, it's not even my writing style though funnily enough it resembles yours-_-
not really, it was there until you edited or it could have been someones else post that I was debating with.
Funny how just now you pulled the subjectivity card and not before. Regardless, Kakashi dying like that is shitty no matter how you slice it.
That does not help your argument, next time come with some good points.
Do you even read Naruto? I think it sucks and even I know how Kakashi ranks on the power scale. Your blind belief in Kishimoto is bordering delusional now.
I was not talking to you, but if you want to enter in on this debate as well, if you know Kakashi ranks on the power scale, why in the heck are you debating for him to have a good fight to his bout with Pain?
Stop contradicting yourself Luffy batter.You're just grasping at straws now.
That does not help your argument either. Thanks for letting me know you can't disprove anything.
Again other series manage this just fine.
If Kishimoto just used his brains a bit and actually tried to write a decent fight instead of pulling things out of his ass then it might have actually been a decent death.You didn't even debunk anything I have said. Stop repeating, the same crap that has already been debunked. If kishi gave you what you wanted, it would not be legit to the story or Pain, or Kakashi.
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That don't help your argument.
No, it won me the argument.
Do you need help as to understanding what i'm asking from you to prove? thats as simple as I can put it.
You're asking me to prove it's possible to have a good epic death against an opponent who's out of that character's league.
Explain. or stfu.
I've explained all that there was needed. You just don't want to listen.
not really, it was there until you edited or it could have been someones else post that I was debating with.
I never wrote any form of that post. And if it was someone else, why did you quote it in the middle of my quotes? Fess up, you wrote that and wanted to pretend I did.
That does not help your argument, next time come with some good points.
It's my entire point, it sucked and I compared it to similar situations which didn't suck.
I was not talking to you, but if you want to enter in on this debate as well, if you know Kakashi ranks on the power scale, why in the heck are you debating for him to have a good fight to his bout with Pain? Stop contradicting yourself Luffy batter.
Because he was an extremely important character and extremely powerful? Like Zkaier said, good fight and death does NOT mean fighting equally with Pain. No contradictions. Will you stop ignoring everything that debunks your points.
That does not help your argument either. Thanks for letting me know you can't disprove anything.
What, trying to address something irrelevant?
You didn't even debunk anything I have said. Stop repeating, the same crap that has already been debunked. If kishi gave you what you wanted, it would not be legit to the story or Pain, or Kakashi.
Follow your own advice.
I have many times debunked what you said yet you just ignored each one of them (well single conclusive point really) and are repeating the same crap over and over. It could have been legit and entertaining if handled well as I have proved with the countless other series that have pulled them off so well. Kishimoto was just either too lazy to try or too shitty to pull it off or a bit of both.
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Sorry to step in for a moment but I have a question.
Jinbei, why are you quoting things that Luffy Batter nor anyone else ever wrote down? I mean you're saying the guy edited his posts but I checked and there was never any alterations done so…seems to me you're making up stuff...
Anyway, you two can go back to your little "discussion" now.
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No, it won me the argument.
No it didn't, you win arguments by debunking points, and adding in good points, you on the other hand is doing the opposite, and contradicting yourself.
You're asking me to prove it's possible to have a good epic death against an opponent who's out of that character's league.
I've explained all that there was needed. You just don't want to listen.No I'm asking you how would you do that for kakashi vs Pain with everything we know about the two with out depowering Pain, and contradicting the story? That is the argument, and you have ignore the question from the start. and No you didn't debunk anything, all you did was name names, and ignore the argument.
I never wrote any form of that post. And if it was someone else, why did you quote it in the middle of my quotes? Fess up, you wrote that and wanted to pretend I did.
I didn't, There no need to do that when you, don't even know how to debate. you must have edited your post.
It's my entire point, it sucked and I showed how it could have not sucked.
Please links me to the post that shows whats in the bold.
if you don't give me what I asked for I will accept your concession.Because he was an extremely important character? The hell are you doing asking obvious crap. Like Zkaier said, good fight and death does NOT mean fighting equally with Pain. Will you stop ignoring everything that debunks your points.
That does not disprove anything, and Zkaier argument was shoot since
Zkaier points where already debunked. Stop making this debate go back wards.
http://apforums.net/showpost.php?p=999048&postcount=3762Follow your own advice.
This is funny, coming from a guy who has yet to answer a simple question, and ignore points not to mention repeat the same thing over and over again. Admit it you have no argument Luffy batter, and are just posting to post.
@Vanessa:Jinbei, why are you quoting things that Luffy Batter nor anyone else ever wrote down? I mean you're saying the guy edited his posts but I checked and there was never any alterations done so…seems to me you're making up stuff...
Anyway, you two can go back to your little "discussion" now.
This ain't my writing.
Kakashi's death at this point did show off some cool moves form Kakashi, and by sacrificing his life to save Chouji did prove his integrity. What we're lacking is the impact of his death. When Asuma died, we saw shots of everyone in his life–his team and Kurenai. When Jiraya died, though he was alone he reflected on the people he knew in his life, plus we more recently got to see Naruto's reaction. The problem I have with this "death" of Kakashi is that no one important to him knows about it--his body is just alone in a field of debris somewhere. Because of this, in addition to the fact I can't see a fatal wound on him, I'm hoping he' just unconscious.
I didn't make it. But since your here, why don't you, step in let Luffy batter know, that he should stop, with the mindless ranting and try to use his brain to come up with good points?
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In an epic fight to the death, a character should get a chance to pull out nearly every move we've seen them use before, some new desperation moves, and keep fighting despite damage they've taken till they're well past their limits, (Generally absorbing two attacks that should have finished them and then still going is pretty decent) and then for their death to have meaning. If it is to be their final appearance, it should remind us of everything they've been, everything they've earned, and everything that will never be seen again when they are gone.
Kakashi,. the man who has copied and mastered 1000 jutus… who has been around since the very beginning, 400 or so chapters, did pretty much nothing and got punked in two chapters. Where's the endless "Oh that was a log" fake outs? Where were the strategies and creative things he always tought his students? Where was running up the side of a buildings and tree (one of the FIRST lessons he taught the kids), walking on water, chidori tossing? Why didn't he use any of the moves we've seen exposed to on camera with enemies he's fought against, like steel body, or ice barriers, or anythign from Zabuza, which we know he totally nailed and was perfectly able to copy? Wheres the other 995 moves that we never saw? What about strategies and tricks the sharingan allows him to use?
The Naruto/Saske fight at the end of part one, for all its faults (endless powerups) did exactly that, showcased everything Naruto had learned up that point, by having him do it effortlessly while doing other stuff. Him fighting on water is still one of the coolest thigns the series ever did. Should not the fight at the end of Kakashi's life be similar in showcasing at least a good chunk of what he knows? I'm not saying all 1000 jutsus, but 10 or 15 of them, especially ones we've seen on camera, isn't asking that much.
In Dragonball, Piccollo took the full brunt of Nappa's attack to save Gohan. (And then Goku in the immediate fight after against Vegeta sued everything he had, Kamehameha, Kaikoken, going many times past his limit, spirit bomb, and then still struggling after everything in his body was broken. THAT'S an epic fight to the death, and he didnt even die there!) In One Piece the cast fights to their very limit nearly every single time, no death involved, but you still get their sufferring and sacrificse and ability to go beyond their limits to save others. Zoro's willing sacrifice to take all of Lufyf's pain and possibly die, thus sacrificing his own dreams, was potent. In Macross, Roy Fokker suffers a slow near pointless death, but he gets a great couple minutes of farewell. Even in Naruto itself, the third hokage used his death to seal off Orichimaru's power.
Kakashi did an electric wolf thing, which was pretty cool, then he was at his limit immediatley and only had "one attack left in him" which he then used to distract his opponent, instead of actually doing anything. Lame. (and Choji's father died even more pointless and unimpressivley) Whats worse is, his death is absolutley meaningless, as it doesn't serve any story point that Jiraya's death didn't already serve.
Jiraiya and Itachi before this both got the same treatment. They had more chapters to die in, but their fights were weak as well, not using nearly all their potential. Jiraya had unfunny bickering frogs, and a bigger rasengan, but no emotion in the fight. He had somebackstory inserted in there, and so was a little better, but his death was broadcast so far in advance, and so badly dealt it was pretty underwhelming. (Doesn't help that Kishimoto skipped a good chunk of their fight, apparently.) Itachi and Saske's fight was nothing but fake outs till the very end, followed by multiple chapters revealing Itachi was trying to lose the entire time.
Choji and Neji's "fake deaths" in part one had way more heart and sacrifice and emotion to it. Rock Lee's hopeless fight against Gaara had more heart. Those fights showed the character's past, all they had struggled and suffered through to get where they were, going to their limits, PASSING those limits, and then taking on horrible injuries that crippled/nearly killed them, but at least stopping their opponent. (Well, Lee didn't finish Gaara, but that was a tournament.)
Kakashi had no endearing flashback, no volume worth of desperation moves, no great last words. He did one interesting new attack, then LOST HIS EYE, and that was all he had in him. Which is WEAK. I'm not saying EVERY character that gets killed by random villain needs to go out epically, but when its one of the characters thats had more screen time than practically anybody, then YES, they better get a good farewell too. And unless Kakashi is just NEAR death and he's getting back up after this to improve and grow, then... that just a lame death.
Maybe the anime will fix this by finally animating Kakashi's backstory flashback from chapter 240 or so and inserting into this fight. Hell, maybe they were told Kakashi was going to die and to wait on the flashback. That MIGHT fix it. 3 or 4 episodes of backstory buildup while he fights to his death, that would go a long way.
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This ain't my writing.
I didn't make it. But since your here, why don't you, step in let Luffy batter know, that he should stop, with the mindless ranting and try to use his brain to come up with good points?
That didn't really answer my question so I guess my earlier assumption was right.
Either way, he is right though in saying that was a rather crappy fight and a bad way for a principal character to be taken out(if Kakashi is in fact dead). Also, he and Zkaiser did provide examples from other series that pertained to their points of view in how a fight against an overpowered foe that results in a character's death can indeed be handled well. It's not their fault you refused to check them out for yourself, nor is it against their point that you haven't seen them so saying it doesn't help their side of the discussion is rather…simple-minded of you.
Anyway, regarding your little request: as poorly worded and idiotic both Luffy Batter's and your points may be; neither of you have done anything wrong(yet?) so I see no reason to force anyone to stop.
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No it didn't, you win arguments by debunking points, and adding in good points, you on the other hand is doing the opposite, and contradicting yourself.
Which I've done plenty of and you none of.
No I'm asking you how would you do that for kakashi vs Pain with everything we know about the two with out depowering Pain, and contradicting the story? That is the argument, and you have ignore the question from the start. and No you didn't debunk anything, all you did was name names, and ignore the argument.
That's Kishimoto's job not mine. All I did was prove it's possible. ZKaiser already gave you examples though even if it was unnecessary.
I didn't, There no need to do that when you, don't even know how to debate. you must have edited your post.
Vanessa said I didn't.
Please links me to the post that shows whats in the bold.
if you don't give me what I asked for I will accept your concession.Go to One Manga, there are tons of series where deaths against out of league characters were handled well. This could have been one of those but wasn't.
Zkaier points where already debunked. Stop making this debate go back wards.
http://apforums.net/showpost.php?p=999048&postcount=3762No they weren't. That's just your strategy of spouting random, irrelevant crap and pretending it won you the argument. Anyone with a brain can see Zkaiser's points were solid.
This is funny, coming from a guy who has yet to answer a simple question, and ignore points not to mention repeat the same thing over and over again. Admit it you have no argument Luffy batter, and are just posting to post
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My argument was that it's possible for a character to fight another character who is out of his league, have a good fight and have a good death. How Kishimoto could have done it in this situation was up to him and he failed miserably. Because you see Jinbei, it doesn't matter if it made sense. It's supposed to be entertaining AS WELL. Note the AS WELL as in I'm not saying he should ignore the story for entertainment but incorporate BOTH. Having Kakashi die in such a lame way, whether it makes sense or not is not an entertaining way for him to die. As to the possibility of even doing it, even if I don't have to address this, I will for the sheer irony of it, it's his story and if he could let Sasuke beat the hachibi despite how unentertaining and senseless it was, he could have given kakashi a decent death like all other mangaka do when they use such a plot device. The ability to balance both consistency of story and entertainment is what marks a true story-teller and Kishimoto definitely can't even provide either let alone balane.
This ain't my writing.
Then where did it come from? And why did you randomly post it?
I didn't make it. But since your here, why don't you, step in let Luffy batter know, that he should stop, with the mindless ranting and try to use his brain to come up with good points?
Because she knows I'm the one who has a point (along with ZKaiser). Quit looking for support for your flawed logic just because you know you lost.
Edit: @ Vanessa, Vanessa? Poorly worded? Come on, I have quite an amount of confidence in my grammar and syntax abilities:P
Oh and told you she would swing our way, Jinbei.
To robby: PREACH!!!
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Yibis One Piece Fansubs
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Hmm, guess it's irrelevant then.
Props to your great post Robby, I just had to say that again because it was so perfect. Too bad you don't post more often at this forum.
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Anyway, regarding your little request: as poorly worded and idiotic both Luffy Batter's and your points may be; neither of you have done anything wrong(yet?) so I see no reason to force anyone to stop.
I'm hopeing against all odds that they will come to their senses and decide for themselves to stop.:sad:
(I wonder how much more pleasant this forum would be if one of them put the other on ignore?:ninja:)
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Vanessa, Vanessa? Poorly worded? Come on, I have quite an amount of confidence in my grammar and syntax abilities:P
You misunderstand Luffy Batter, it's not due to your posts that you're right. You've actually been just as bad as Jinbei, the only difference is that your view regarding all this is right, nothing more.
Zkaiser's the only one who's made a decent argument regarding this; I only lumped you with him since you both basically agree with one another. So don't go saying things like
Oh and told you she would swing our way, Jinbei.
like some immature child boasting.
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Now anyway!
I saw some spoilers saying Pain runs into Konohamaru and Ebisu...
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I saw some spoilers saying Pain runs into Konohamaru and Ebisu…
The chapter is out already.
http://mangahelpers.com/manga/details/naruto/chapters/426/
edit: what the hell have the guys from mangahelpers.com done to their website?
I suppose its ubberly efficient now but the learning curve might be suited for an old guy like me :sad:Yibis One Piece Fansubs
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Is it as bad as I'm thinking it'd be?
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If Mangahelpers had kept the shoutbox it would have been fine, but the latest RAW and scanlation boxes get filled with the stupidest shit. Who cares about 10 volumes of Prince of Tennis being uploaded
And this chapter had to be one of the least interesting Naruto chapters in god knows how long. Who really cares about Konohamaru? And if he even manages to dent Pein, you know there's something wrong with Kishi's head
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For the first time eva. Luffy Batter, you have won at least in my eyes
good lookin out with my "P R E A C H" quote too
and what a shitastic chapter…
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The sad part is that I felt I could really have felt some interest for him.
If he hadn't been thrown away for like who knows how many chapters. I really thought he had potential in Naruto part 1 though:sad:
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That didn't really answer my question so I guess my earlier assumption was right.
Either way, he is right though in saying that was a rather crappy fight and a bad way for a principal character to be taken out(if Kakashi is in fact dead).
How is he right? whether the fight it sucked or not is all OPINION. and you say its was handle bad when in fact if kishi gave you or Luffy batters what you two wanted it would go against what already is. That would be bad story telling.
Also, he and Zkaiser did provide examples from other series that pertained to their points of view in how a fight against an overpowered foe that results in a character's death can indeed be handled well. It's not their fault you refused to check them out for yourself, nor is it against their point that you haven't seen them so saying it doesn't help their side of the discussion is rather…simple-minded of you.
Wrong when I asked for them to explain it to me? Heck there example of Genkai vs Toguro was worse then what happen to Kaksshi, and as Zkaiser point using Oda and Zoro, kuma etc as an example was debunked. They or anyone else has yet to answer my question or questions on this subject.
You can try tho.
Which I've done plenty of and you none of.
links?
That's Kishimoto's job not mine. All I did was prove it's possible. ZKaiser already gave you examples though even if it was unnecessary.
No, your ignoring the FACT that if that fight truned out the way you wanted it to, it would contradict the story. For the last fucking time, what happen was legit.
Go to One Manga, there are tons of series where deaths against out of league characters were handled well. This could have been one of those but wasn't.
This don't help your argument, for one those are different situations.
My argument was that it's possible for a character to fight another character who is out of his league, have a good fight and have a good death.
That depends on the situation.
How Kishimoto could have done it in this situation was up to him and he failed miserably.
for the last time Point it out for me, what exactly did he fail to do? Coz what happened didn't contradict the story in any way and it was legit for both of his characters.
Because you see Jinbei, it doesn't matter if it made sense. It's supposed to be entertaining AS WELL. Note the AS WELL as in I'm not saying he should ignore the story for entertainment but incorporate BOTH.
Yes it does, that is the reason why Marvel is always in deep shit with there fans. Weather it was entertaining or not is up to the person reading it.
Having Kakashi die in such a lame way, whether it makes sense or not is not an entertaining way for him to die. As to the possibility of even doing it, even if I don't have to address this, I will for the sheer irony of it, it's his story and if he could let Sasuke beat the hachibi despite how unentertaining and senseless it was, he could have given kakashi a decent death like all other mangaka do when they use such a plot device. The ability to balance both consistency of story and entertainment is what marks a true story-teller and Kishimoto definitely can't even provide either let alone balane.
again, your jumping to conclusions.
Then where did it come from? And why did you randomly post it?
I was addressing it.
Because she knows I'm the one who has a point (along with ZKaiser). Quit looking for support for your flawed logic just because you know you lost.
lost what when you ignore all my points?:wassat:
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The matter's resolved Jinbei. We're talking about the latest chapter now.
So please don't antagonize others by beating a dead horse.
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The matter's resolved Jinbei. We're talking about the latest chapter now.
So please don't antagonize others by beating a dead horse.
Concession accepted.
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Just read the latest chapter… And I'm conflicted... That was a FANTASTIC chapter.... that was VERY poorly timed, which turned it into a TERRIBLE chapter.
This is EXACTLY what I was just talking about an hour ago. That EXACT SAME montage, should have taken place during Juraiya's, or even Kakashi's death fight. Its even a perfect montage for naruto... except of course for the fact he's nowhere near death at all and it just sort of filled the chapter that could have otherwise gone to other material. it shows how much Naruto has grown, how the village has come to respect him, all that he's accomplished, what his teachers have taught him, and what it is they're still fighting for. But its used on random pervy glasses guy whose been in 4 panels?
And then for it to be Konohomaru that showed up to save him? Bleh.
This EXACT same development should have STILL been happening with Kakashi, battered and wounded and still going another couple chapters. And then his surpise saviour should hav been Might Guy... but thats just more wasted potential that didn't get used.
Really, it shows that Kishimoto is perfectaly capable of pulling together a great montage encapsulating 400 chapters of character growth and accomplishment... but he instead completley blew it by puttng it HERE. That should have taken place when Juraiya died a year ago. Or, two chapters ago, with some more Kakashi moments in it, like maybe Naruto and Kakshi doing the multiple clones training, or the "try to catch a bell" bitt, or when taking out the dude with five hearts with his wind Rasengan, where he surpasse Kakashi, so that at least Kakashi could die, satisifed knowing he's ehlped raise a better generation to follow him. And it would have been immensley appropriate for Juraiya.
It should not have taken place NOW, in the middle of nothing. Here, its just filler, a waste, accomplishing nothing we didn't already know. But how potent would it be if more or less the exact same thing had taken place at a different time? If it were Juraiaya reflecting on this as he died, followed by him giving it one more go? Flashbacks are great tools for that sort of thing, and for one to pop up so blatantly after it SHOULD have been used... Instead its just Naruto sorta thinking about stuff, more than a year after it was pertinent. Or was it glasses guy thinking about it? I'm not sure, it wasn't terribly clear, but thats even more a waste.
This would have been a fantastic chapter two chapters ago. Terrible timing and execution ruined it completley though.
Luffy Batter- I usually comment once or twice any given week on the new One Piece chapter... the Naruto stuff usually doesn't get much interest from me since its basically fallen apart since Part 1, whee Kishi had a better idea of what he's doing. Just the way Kakashi has been handled dissapoints me enough I had to speak out on it.
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This post is deleted!
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Luffy Batter- I usually comment once or twice any given week on the new One Piece chapter… the Naruto stuff usually doesn't get much interest from me since its basically fallen apart since Part 1, whee Kishi had a better idea of what he's doing. Just the way Kakashi has been handled dissapoints me enough I had to speak out on it.
Wow really? How come I never noticed? You're like an awesome poster. You know exactly how to analyze a series, where to analyze and what should be done to improve it. You rock.
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if Konohamoru beats this bastard when all these EXPERIENCED shinobi are getting owned no problem…idk its just horrible execution
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Meh chapter, better than last week's though.
Barely.
Flashbacks were nice though really didn't care much for them at this point.
Oh and art was even shittier than usual.
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I'm straining my mind, but I just can't think of a reason to give a shit about Ebisu and Konohamaru, but I can't think of one. Give them the axe and let's move on.
