I have an ominous feeling about the last words of this chapter. Perhaps yami raid on hotel while ryouzanpaku is out?
History's Strongest Disciple Kenichi
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Yeah…
! Well on the other hand I DID want Apachai to live even if it cost the story. So I guess this is what I wanted. And to be fair, this execution isn't bad per se. An intentional trolling move where you put in all the hints that a character is gonna die and save him in a shocking way, that's fine execution given Apachai's sudden revival feasibly led to that. But I dunno, I don't wanna call cop-out…I guess I'll reserve judgment till next chapter to see how it fits into the grand scheme of things.
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Lol…Garyuu X
Epic. <---- if you are to sum him up in one word. XD
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wow that just ruined those last chapters for me kinda like pell living did
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at least this one is more believable. like, performing an actual operation on the scene to a single bleeding wound.
unlike pell who somehow made it to a doctor after a point blank city destroying bomb. pell is still worse.
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Also this is HSDK. If the fans haven't gotten through their heads that the masters are virtually invincible, this should solidify it. Also, the other masters can't let Apachai die; it would ruin their project that is Kenichi.
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Maybe it's just me but the fanservice gets way over the hand. I could take chapters like this so more seriously if it wouldn't be for all this tits and ass shots. Well my pain is someone else's gain.
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i'm not gay, i love the fanservice.
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I am not gay either but that's not the point. It disturbs the flow of a manga.
''Apachi please live please live p.p, don't die.'' Next page. ''Random fanservice page.''
That's just silly : (. -
I'm not complaining about Shigures tits and ass. Those are natural wonders. :wub:
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I'm not complaining about Shigures tits and ass. Those are natural wonders. :wub:
Agreed wholeheartedly :ninja:
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So Apaichi will survive because of mas surgery-skills.
Mhh i think it would have been better to let him be dead..sad for this manga that it doesn`t go that step. -
I liked the Chapter…and in with the last 6-8 Chapters this manga became one of my favorite mangas
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I liked the Chapter…and in with the last 6-8 Chapters this manga became one of my favorite mangas
WHAT!:blink:
it basically ruins the whole point of the last chapters it's horrible he would have had one of the most epic death scenes in manga if they didn't do this deus ex machina shit, it would have been great character development too…. this chapter was horrible it deletes all purpose of what happened before
BAD CHAPTER
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What, and have Agaard teach Kenichi Muay Thai? Or are you saying that Kenichi is already a master of Muay Thai?
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i'd leave calling it bad until later in the series, because you never know what might happen.
(AKA a time when you'd be like "dayum, that was epic. good thing he didn't die back then, he wouldn't have been able to do this epic shit!")for all you know, this is lulling the readers into a "the good guys are all immortal" mentality, only to have one of the shinpaku die not long after. for now i assume that the comments by ukita are foreshadowing trouble for the kids while they're on their own.
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I'm not exactly that big a fan of this plot twist but Matsuena played fair at any rate and I can't stand dumb posts like this.
@choperman:WHAT!:blink:
Stop using emoticons and hyperbole. They're annoying,
it basically ruins the whole point of the last chapters
So who are you exactly to decide what the point was?
it's horrible he would have had one of the most epic death scenes in manga
Yes, it would have been epic. Matseuna was easily capable of that but he decided not to. It doesn't make it horrible as much as lacklustre but the author had different ideas.
if they didn't do this deus ex machina shit,
Hahaha, this right there stop. It's nowhere near deus ex machina. With the way Matsuena set things up, it could have gone literally either way. The only thing that nudged people in the death direction was Apachai's line last chapter. But the fantastic Apachai spread when he "died" the first time making any subsequent deaths kinda dull, his revival hinting that he might not die, Shigure's line last chapter of him being alive not to mention how emotion light the first half of the chapter was. Matsuena clearly had a whole "it could have been much worse thing going but let's just be grateful it was a peaceful solution this time" going as the end of the chapter exemplified. He played fair the whole way. Also Akisame showing up to the massive Ki burst from his friend whose Ki had vanished before is extremely sensible. I hate it when people misuse the term to describe things they don't like.
it would have been great character development too….
Yes, it would have. It would also have resulted in Kenichi losing a Muay Thai teacher and it's way too late in the game to make a new character for the job. Unless you think Aagard should take his place which is really a terrible idea.
The character development would have been nice and it is a tad disappointing that Matsuena couldn't rise to a new high but Matsuena has other ideas for Apachai and he is an awesome character at the end of the day so either way had its benefits
this chapter was horrible it deletes all purpose of what happened before
Defeated a strong base and one of the enemy's main fighters, settled a long time hyped up rivalry for two main characters in phenomenal ways, gave us some good fights and tons of character development. These were the main purposes of what happened before. How does this chapter delete them?
BAD CHAPTER
BAD POST
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I am dissapointed that Apachi survived, he is definatly my favorite master and one of my favorite charecter in series but build up for his epic death scene was nice and it would caused much charecter development across series.
But alas he was revived and all this was for nothing except Kenichi defeating his rival.
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@Thousand:
I'm not exactly that big a fan of this plot twist but Matsuena played fair at any rate and I can't stand dumb posts like this.
It wasn't fair at all everything he did until they arrived lead us to believe he wzas going to die except for the fact that masters of kenchi never seem to lose
@Thousand:Stop using emoticons and hyperbole. They're annoying,
Okay right of the bat this seems to be terrible who are you to tell me when I should use emoticons, and hyperoble no it was a bad chapter your just a raging fangirl
@Thousand:
So who are you exactly to decide what the point was?
Really? I can't say there was no point to something when there wasn't, what was the point of having him DIE, come back to life and say he only has a few seconds left just so he could have some bullshit thrown out of nowhere to have him survive, it's the pain arc basically and your so biased you'll never admit it, every series you like has no downfalls for you and every series you seem to hate does everything 100% wrong, your a raving fan girl
@Thousand:
Yes, it would have been epic. Matseuna was easily capable of that but he decided not to. It doesn't make it horrible as much as lacklustre but the author had different ideas.
And pells death scene would have been awesome too, but it's not they ruined it, you can't just say the author sees it diffrently so you can't say it's bad what kind of 5 year old crap is that
@Thousand:
Hahaha, this right there stop. It's nowhere near deus ex machina. With the way Matsuena set things up, it could have gone literally either way. The only thing that nudged people in the death direction was Apachai's line last chapter. But the fantastic Apachai spread when he "died" the first time making any subsequent deaths kinda dull, his revival hinting that he might not die, Shigure's line last chapter of him being alive not to mention how emotion light the first half of the chapter was. Matsuena clearly had a whole "it could have been much worse thing going but let's just be grateful it was a peaceful solution this time" going as the end of the chapter exemplified. He played fair the whole way. Also Akisame showing up to the massive Ki burst from his friend whose Ki had vanished before is extremely sensible. I hate it when people misuse the term to describe things they don't like.
The fact is he lead us to believe in the last line of last chapter, just like you said lead us to believe he would be dead, and then out of nowhere they come up with a bullshit excuse that even though he had died and was on borrowed time he didn't have to stay dead because there so good at medicine they can save a man WITH A FUCKING HOLE IN HIS CHEST!!! if that's not a dues ex machina than what the fuck is
Deus ex machina: any active agent who appears unexpectedly to solve an insoluble difficulty
soo how did they not unexpectedly solve an already claimed insolvable difficulty there you go word for word have fun coming up with some bull shit excuse that allows it in your mind to be okay
@Thousand:
Yes, it would have. It would also have resulted in Kenichi losing a Muay Thai teacher and it's way too late in the game to make a new character for the job. Unless you think Aagard should take his place which is really a terrible idea.
Hell I'm sure he could have come up with something it's better than just bringing a character back from dead, but I forgot to you it's not a dues ex machina
@Thousand:
The character development would have been nice and it is a tad disappointing that Matsuena couldn't rise to a new high but Matsuena has other ideas for Apachai and he is an awesome character at the end of the day so either way had its benefits
Apachi will probably only fight fodder masters from now, and teach kenchi his fighting style, and even if he fights someone this has proven that no matter what kenchi's masters will win, it doesn't do good for the plot at all
@Thousand:
Defeated a strong base and one of the enemy's main fighters
Which now we know will always happen with no loss taking the suspense we may have had about later ones away
@Thousand:
settled a long time hyped up rivalry for two main characters in phenomenal ways, gave us some good fights and tons of character development. These were the main purposes of what happened before. How does this chapter delete them?
I can say this about tons of shit, hell a narutard could make this claim about pain bringing everyone back to life, it settled a hyped up rivalry, gave us a good fight (for part 2) These aren't re4asons both of these cases were pure shit dues ex machina
except for character development, which was only for apachi, as kenchi just finds out there's no fucking point in death for his masters as they can always be brought back to life
@Thousand:
BAD POST
I agree it was on your part
But alas he was revived and all this was for nothing except Kenichi defeating his rival.
EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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It wasn't fair at all everything he did until they arrived lead us to believe he wzas going to die except for the fact that masters of kenchi never seem to lose
You mean other than Apachai reviving himself, Shigure's line on him being alive, Aagard's line on Apachai coming back from the dead, the emotionally light way the first part of the chapter was handled? These flew right past you? All the hints that Apachai would die were more or less balanced by those that hinted he would survive. And what you want doesn't count as a hint.
Okay right of the bat this seems to be terrible who are you to tell me when I should use emoticons, and hyperoble
You can use them but they're terrible unless used in a mocking sense and make it hard for people to take you seriously.
no it was a bad chapter your just a raging fangirl
I'm a guy. One who can analyze the little clues provided by the author properly at that.
Really? I can't say there was no point to something when there wasn't,
You can't fixate on an event you want to happen with other equally valid events that could happen and claim the previous chapters were pointless if the author had a different vision for his arc. That's just shoddy, immature arguing.
WAA, THIS DIDN'T HAPPEN HOW I WANTED TO!! SO POINTLESS!!
what was the point of having him DIE, come back to life and say he only has a few seconds left just so he could have some bullshit thrown out of nowhere to have him survive,
The point of him dying was to instigate the Kenichi vs Koukin fight to a new level and provide some sweet drama and suspense. The point of him reviving was for some incredible character development. The point of his line was a classic cliff-hanger. Him, living was the author deciding his character should live. There was no bigger picture and there didn't need to be, it was all just basic shonen drama like usual for this series. While Apachai dying would have been quite a masterstroke of a development, him living doesn't negate the whole arc and has its own merits.
it's the pain arc basically
Oh yeah so this didn't involve taking out a crucial base of the enemies, settled two long-hyped up battles, give a ton of character development. Absolutely nothing changed with this arc.
and your so biased you'll never admit it, every series you like has no downfalls for you and every series you seem to hate does everything 100% wrong, your a raving fan girl
I laugh at all the clumsy, constant attacks at my character as you're clearly inexperienced at using them.
And pells death scene would have been awesome too, but it's not they ruined it,
Yes, I too thought that was lame. So random for a side-character. How about you stop bringing OTHER series into this discussion about Kenichi now?
you can't just say the author sees it differently so you can't say it's bad what kind of 5 year old crap is that
If the author has different ideas and you throw a tantrum because they don't match up to the high bar you rose even though his ideas were equally valid and hinted at even, that's what a 5 year old would do.
The fact is he lead us to believe in the last line of last chapter, just like you said lead us to believe he would be dead,
That's what we call a cliff-hanger.
and then out of nowhere they come up with a bullshit excuse that even though he had died and was on borrowed time
Apachai's words clearly put in there to instigate a cliff-hanger.
he didn't have to stay dead because there so good at medicine
A long-established fact
@choperman:they can save a man WITH A FUCKING HOLE IN HIS CHEST!!!
You do realize an old man flipped over a tank in the same chapter?
if that's not a dues ex machina than what the fuck is
I'll tell you what it's not. It isn't something you don't like.
Deus ex machina: any active agent who appears unexpectedly to solve an insoluble difficulty
How is Akisame unexpected? People were predicting he might show up last week. How is healing the chest wound of a guy who showed enough vigour to crumble concrete unsolvable?
soo how did they not unexpectedly solve an already claimed insolvable difficulty there you go word for word have fun coming up with some bull shit excuse that allows it in your mind to be okay
I already tore it apart. I find it funny how you're so obsessed with discrediting me as a fanboy even though I've already admitted I didn't like it very much. However fair is fair and there's a difference between an author not living up to a high level and doing something downright terrible.
Hell I'm sure he could have come up with something it's better than just bringing a character back from dead,
Like?
but I forgot to you it's not a dues ex machina
It isn't.
Apachi will probably only fight fodder masters from now,
there are other strong members of Yami left you know.
and teach kenchi his fighting style,
Helping the main character attain his goal, so pointless.
and even if he fights someone this has proven that no matter what kenchi's masters will win, it doesn't do good for the plot at all
Just because Apachai survived doesn't mean it won't happen in the future especially with the Elder. This arc actually served as a declaration that it actually could happen someday.
Which now we know will always happen with no loss taking the suspense we may have had about later ones away
We were talking about the point of the arc here. Keep track of the discussion.
I can say this about tons of shit, hell a narutard could make this claim about pain bringing everyone back to life, it settled a hyped up rivalry, gave us a good fight (for part 2) These aren't re4asons both of these cases were pure shit dues ex machina
Again with bringing in other series? The pain fight was terrible. The series changing war which had the potential to change everything changed nothing whilst squandering all the side-characters. This arc with all its character development and drama and excellent fight scenes can in no way be compared to that especially when the only similarity was the survival of a character which was decently executed.
except for character development, which was only for apachi, as kenchi just finds out there's no fucking point in death for his masters as they can always be brought back to life
This clearly shows how blinded you are to the story with all your raving. If anything this event will make Kenichi begin to doubt that his masters are immortal as he once thought they were. Sure not as dramatic as actually losing a master but it's something whilst retaining some benefits.
I agree it was on your part
God, your insults are lame.
EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
That's right, start rallying the troops.
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Lobster, just let it go. Choperman, you too. Guys, this is a shonen, light-hearted series, like One Piece. It's not meant to be taken seriously. A person getting the shit kicked out of them, dying, coming back to life, kicking some ass, and then surviving is not uncommon. Although Jiraiya did die, he did the same damn thing in Naruto about 150 chapters ago, so… it's nothing new.
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@Thousand Lion-san:
!
but yeah, fire fist is correct. -
I don't get why people think that death always = character development, and that it seems to be impossible to obtain the elusive "character development" any other way.
what exactly where you expecting to happen if Apachai had died? The masters would get all sad, but of course they would know that it was an honorable battle, and it wouldn't make them all turn emo. Kenichi would be sad as fuck for a while, but it's not like he would dedicate his life to muay thai in memory of apachai, or that he'd hunt down apachai's killer, or make him want to train harder so that he can protect his masters. that would be stupid.
Like, I'm honestly curious. WHAT do you think would have been the outcome if Apachai had died? I can't see it being something that would stick around, because if it did, it would fundamentally change the idealistic nature of this manga.
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This post is deleted!
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says the 2010 member right? so yeah I guess no point in freaking out over people mysteriously coming back to life anymore cause 2010 members and lion chan are so convincing :getlost:
Wow, bringing up join dates like you have some great credibility on an internet forum because you've been around longer, that's really stupid.
Edit- Oh look, I joined before you, so all of your points are hereby invalid.
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fine I'll leave it alone
says the 2010 member right? so yeah I guess no point in freaking out over people mysteriously coming back to life anymore cause 2010 members and lion chan are so convincing :getlost:
Wow. This is the most "prejucide toward 2010 members" post I've seen yet. He didn't even do anything retarded. You just simply disagreed with him.
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@Fire Fist:
Lobster, just let it go. Choperman, you too. Guys, this is a shonen, light-hearted series, like One Piece. It's not meant to be taken seriously. A person getting the shit kicked out of them, dying, coming back to life, kicking some ass, and then surviving is not uncommon. Although Jiraiya did die, he did the same damn thing in Naruto about 150 chapters ago, so… it's nothing new.
sorry I can't leave it alone anymore had to put in the last say, but I'm keeping it hidden for you
[hide]
@Thousand:You mean other than Apachai reviving himself,
Yes and than we find out he's supposed to die soon
@Thousand:
Shigure's line on him being alive,
To be followed by his line where he basically confirms he should by all rights be dead
@Thousand:
Aagard's line on Apachai coming back from the dead,
are you so dense you don't even understand what were arguing not6 him coming back from the death, but him not dying afterwards when he states that he should be dead
@Thousand:the emotionally light way the first part of the chapter was handled?
That's this chapter which I'm defining as horrible, I said this whole chapter ruined the past ones, this does not disagree with what I say, this was also four pages before said dueus ex machina
@Thousand:
These flew right past you? All the hints that Apachai would die were more or less balanced by those that hinted he would survive. And what you want doesn't count as a hint.
Even if there were hints (which I already explained why the shit there wasn't) it doesn't excuse a dues ex machina… nothing does
@Thousand:
You can use them but they're terrible unless used in a mocking sense and make it hard for people to take you seriously.
lol just pissed cause I don't like the chapter of one of your favorite series so now your attcking everything about me, even stupid shit like this very mature of you
@Thousand:
I'm a guy. One who can analyze the little clues provided by the author properly at that.
HAHAHAHA didn't they just tear you up for this in the fairy tail thread you read stuff that's not there you make up half this shit yourself and act like it's what everyone should see or have you forgoten "she was supposed to be a blend of nico robin and shikamru" yeah you read everything fine
@Thousand:
You can't fixate on an event you want to happen with other equally valid events that could happen and claim the previous chapters were pointless if the author had a different vision for his arc. That's just shoddy, immature arguing.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA this is hilarious this is what your known for doing how ironic that you claim this is my problem
@Thousand:
WAA, THIS DIDN'T HAPPEN HOW I WANTED TO!! SO POINTLESS!!
I can critize things dumbass, I didn't want half the shit in naruto fairy tail and bleach to happen, so I can't complain about them when they don't go in a way that seems reasonable, great logic dick
@Thousand:
The point of him dying was to instigate the Kenichi vs Koukin fight to a new level and provide some sweet drama and suspense. The point of him reviving was for some incredible character development. The point of his line was a classic cliff-hanger. Him, living was the author deciding his character should live. There was no bigger picture and there didn't need to be, it was all just basic shonen drama like usual for this series. While Apachai dying would have been quite a masterstroke of a development, him living doesn't negate the whole arc and has its own merits.
BOLDED PARTS THE PROBLEM, and it just means that all the shit done before was only to get a fight going, which would be fine but to dues ex machina him back to life is just a waste and belittles everything he's done
@Thousand:
Oh yeah so this didn't involve taking out a crucial base of the enemies, settled two long-hyped up battles, give a ton of character development. Absolutely nothing changed with this arc.
Great it settled two battles, battles that we know will continue to unfold the exact same way with masters wining and never having anyone defeat them, great :getlost:
giving us hope than curb stomping us in the face
@Thousand:
I laugh at all the clumsy, constant attacks at my character as you're clearly inexperienced at using them.
actually they were spot on and you know hence this horrible post as a way to eradicate what I said
@Thousand:
Yes, I too thought that was lame. So random for a side-character. How about you stop bringing OTHER series into this discussion about Kenichi now?
And I'm comparing it to other horrible events in other mangas we all felt were stupid, which is allowed or are comparisons to complex for your feeble mind to comprehend
@Thousand:
If the author has different ideas and you throw a tantrum because they don't match up to the high bar you rose even though his ideas were equally valid and hinted at even, that's what a 5 year old would do.
WHAT!!!!???? your acting like a 5 year old I'm not saying there bad because there not what I would do there bad because there was no rhyme or reason for it it was completely random and went against what he had stated before hand, your the 5 year old your acting like you can't say a manga you likes bad but can give the same criticisms to mangas you hate, your biased cry baby
@Thousand:
That's what we call a cliff-hanger.
okay well you know what oda should have had Law come and bring ace back to life the next chapter after ace died, cause it's just a cliffhanger and that's apparently an excuse to completely disregard anything you said/stated before
@Thousand:
A long-established fact
And the exact reasoning as to why your arguments are bull shit
@Thousand:
You do realize an old man flipped over a tank in the same chapter?
White Beard destroyed marineford that's an excuse as to why Ace should have lived I guess, completely the same both gaping holes through their chest
@Thousand:
I'll tell you what it's not. It isn't something you don't like.[
How is Akisame unexpected? People were predicting he might show up last week. How is healing the chest wound of a guy who showed enough vigour to crumble concrete unsolvable?
So he can heal anything now hell deaths not a problem in this series anymore great I feel like I'm reading Naruto now
@Thousand:
I already tore it apart. I find it funny how you're so obsessed with discrediting me as a fanboy even though I've already admitted I didn't like it very much. However fair is fair and there's a difference between an author not living up to a high level and doing something downright terrible.
1. you didn't tear it apart it's still by all definition a dues ex machina and people expecting it doesn't discredit that and 2. you are an obsessive fan boy as can be seen how you tear apart mangas for shit, and than when one you like does it your fine with it not raging in the cage like you did for the other
@Thousand:
Like?
LIKE? really that's your argument, so your saying there's nothing the author could have done better than making up some stupid deus ex machina
@Thousand:
It isn't.
Yes it is you didn't in any way prove that it's not, it's by the books definition a dues ex machina why can't you just except that
@Thousand:
there are other strong members of Yami left you know.
who will all be beaten by the masters with no big consquences happening because of it…. Great just great
@Thousand:
Helping the main character attain his goal, so pointless.
Which could be done without said dues ex machina, So anythings allowed as long as it helps the character attain his goals… well bleach and naruto look a lot better already
@Thousand:
Just because Apachai survived doesn't mean it won't happen in the future especially with the Elder. This arc actually served as a declaration that it actually could happen someday.
It's the exact opposite it shows no matter if they even die nothing bad can happen to these masters, IDK where you get your shit from… oh yeah you make random shit up and think it's actually been written into the story I forgot
@Thousand:
We were talking about the point of the arc here. Keep track of the discussion.
The point of apachi not dying does more than just hurt the point of this arc it hurts the story as a whole, it basically says no matter what even in death masters will come back and win
@Thousand:
Again with bringing in other series?
It's called comparison it's good to use when trying to show why something is bad by showing something similar
@Thousand:
The pain fight was terrible.
that's debtable but we won't get into that here
@Thousand:
The series changing war which had the potential to change everything changed nothing whilst squandering all the side-characters.
Masters continue to win with no real threat ever coming about, they defeated an enemy so did naruto, and everyone who died came back to life…. where's the difference
@Thousand:
This arc with all its character development and drama and excellent fight scenes can in no way be compared to that especially when the only similarity was the survival of a character which was decently executed.
masters continued to beat said fodder with only one beating someone of importance, everythings the same you just don't want to see it because your a fucking annoying fanboy… and the fight may have been much better but that doesn't discredit it from the complaints that the other recieved for doing the exact same thing
@Thousand:
This clearly shows how blinded you are to the story with all your raving. If anything this event will make Kenichi begin to doubt that his masters are immortal as he once thought they were. Sure not as dramatic as actually losing a master but it's something whilst retaining some benefits.
He just saw that basically no matter what his masters can be brought back to life, how would this change shit
@Thousand:
God, your insults are lame.
as is your fanboyesque logic
@Thousand:
That's right, start rallying the troops.
People agree with me and that's an insult????
[/hide]Wow, bringing up join dates like you have some great credibility on an internet forum because you've been around longer, that's really stupid.
Edit- Oh look, I joined before you, so all of your points are hereby invalid.
so I'm the only one you attcak for this, half the fucking forums is complaining about 2010, and I don't care that much about that type of criticism anyways I just said it
@HiroVoid:
Wow. This is the most "prejucide toward 2010 members" post I've seen yet. He didn't even do anything retarded. You just simply disagreed with him.
calm down I don't hate all 2010 posters but he's commending Thousand lion for doing shit, so yes I took the liberty to give him a punch back
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Apachai surviving has no bearing on what will happen to the masters or other "good" characters in the future. Saying the masters can never ever die or lose because Apachai apparently survives (in unknown condition, by the way- he may end up less able bodied in some way, like Ryuto) is like saying no one will die in One Piece because Pell survived in Alabasta. Clearly that wasn't true.
I really don't have a problem with this turn of events. I admit it would have made for some really intense development if Apachai had died, but the fact is that Kenichi will still be shaken by the fact that his master, who seemed invincible before, did come so close to perishing. And he still developed in his fight with Koukin, and the other masters should also realize how high the stakes are despite saving Apachai.
And besides that, any death from here on will have that much more impact, especially if you do start thinking the masters are completely invincible. Not to sound like a broken record, but several people were severely shocked when Ace actually died in One Piece precisely because of this- no one had ever died in the series barring flashbacks, before Ace bit the bullet.
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Meh, Apachai should have died though I love the character. I didn't like the last minute surgery bit but whatever. I just hope there will be some serious consequence of this fight and Apachai's now near death. Instead of everything going back to normal like usual maybe Kenechi's close encounter to almost losing his master will strengthen his resolve or maybe the surgery will stop Apachai from ever performing martial arts up to par ever again. I just want something to come out of this rather than just another win for Ryouzanpaku.
Back to Apachai's close death, when you lose a character that you enjoy so much it has a greater effect on the reader and if the character contributes much to the storyline it has a greater effect on the plot too. It can go two ways really. If the character is too important you can't lose him because it'll ruin the storyline. Was Apachai that important? If the character is just important then losing him will give the plot a more serious undertone and push the plot forward in terms of development and events. Personally, I think Apachai should have died as already stated but on the other hand I'm glad he's still alive. We'll just see what comes of it now.
It didn't make the manga worse. I'm just going "meh" with the writers intentions now.
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Spoilered because I'm a cool dude who cares but still goes out of his way to fight the good petty fight
! @choperman:
! > sorry I can't leave it alone anymore had to put in the last say, but I'm keeping it hidden for you
! It's kinda fun to see this mixture of frustration, pettiness and rage. I can see you biting your thumb as you struggle in the debate.
! @choperman:
! > Yes and than we find out he's supposed to die soon
! From the one line totally meant as a cliff-hanger from the dazed fighter suffering blood loss. Point is Apachai reviving himself was the framework for putting his fate up in the air again with, given the incredible montage the first time he "died", pointed more to surviving.
! @choperman:
! > To be followed by his line where he basically confirms he should by all rights be dead
! Shigure's line was another nudge that tipped the balance to live whilst Apchai's line ever so slightly tipped it to die. There was still a balance of hints for it going either way the whole time.
! @choperman:
! > are you so dense you don't even understand what were arguing not6 him coming back from the death, but him not dying afterwards when he states that he should be dead
! Are you so dense to not notice that was pretty much the biggest hint? The way Aagard worded his congratulations made his revival seem permanent if Apachai just got the proper treatment. He congratulated Apachai for winning the fight after all when if he died again, it would have been a draw. There were no indications that he thought Apachai was gonna die again.
! @choperman:
! > That's this chapter which I'm defining as horrible, I said this whole chapter ruined the past ones, this does not disagree with what I say, this was also four pages before said dueus ex machina
! Anything before Akisame showing up is fair game for finding hints that prove that Matsuena was stringing the situation as an either or the whole time.
! @choperman:
! > Even if there were hints (which I already explained why the shit there wasn't)
! There were plenty of which you haven't exactly attempted to explain away as much as point out and go all "There's this line!!!". The irony is you haven't once listed a hint where he would die except for that one line which you keep trying to prop as end all even though you have quite a selection to choose from.
! @choperman:
! > it doesn't excuse a dues ex machina… nothing does
! There was no deus ex machina. Quit misusing the term.
! @choperman:
! > lol just pissed cause I don't like the chapter of one of your favorite series
! I already said I didn't like the chapter very much. I'll defend it on the points that it should be defended on though.
@choperman:
! > so now your attcking everything about me, even stupid shit like this very mature of you
! Says the guy who has been frothing and gesticulating with every random insult he can think of from the get go. No I just find them very annoying and they are.
! @choperman:
! > HAHAHAHA didn't they just tear you up for this in the fairy tail thread you read stuff that's not there you make up half this shit yourself and act like it's what everyone should see or have you forgoten "she was supposed to be a blend of nico robin and shikamru" yeah you read everything fine
! Bringing other debates of other manga now? For the record, if you checked properly, people weren't exactly disagreeing with my analysis as much as they were chiding me for putting faith into a mediocre author to deliver and saying lol who cares?
! @choperman:
! > HAHAHAHAHAHAHA this is hilarious this is what your known for doing how ironic that you claim this is my problem
! Throw tantrums over decently executed plot twists? Pretty sure I don't do that.
! @choperman:
! > I can critize things dumbass, I didn't want half the shit in naruto fairy tail and bleach to happen, so I can't complain about them when they don't go in a way that seems reasonable, great logic dick
! It's one thing to criticize aspects involving story, art, pacing etc. for being inexcusably awful and incoherent but quite another for being mad one event happened over another when both were reasonably fair game and the choice made had good execution. Then you're just being spoiled. On the reverse side, you're no better than those Ace fans whining about their favorite character dying.
! @choperman:
! > BOLDED PARTS THE PROBLEM,
! So you're ignoring everything else? Convenient.
! @choperman:
! > and it just means that all the shit done before was only to get a fight going, which would be fine
! Satisfy my curioisty a little, so if there's no deus ex machina, it's fine?
@choperman:
! > but to dues ex machina him back to life is just a waste and belittles everything he's done
! There was no deus ex machina.And how does him surviving belittle all the tears, blood, sweat, courage, love for his disciple he displayed throughout the whole ordeal?
! @choperman:
! > Great it settled two battles, battles that we know will continue to unfold the exact same way with masters wining and never having anyone defeat them, great :getlost:
! Again we were talking about point of the arc which you claimed was pointless. The whole argument is going:
! THE ARC WAS POINTLESS
No the point was this…
RANDOM COMPLAINT X THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE POINT
! You're practically conceding the argument.
! @choperman:
! > giving us hope than curb stomping us in the face
! Only for those who go out of their way to push their face on the floor against Matsuena's foot.
! @choperman:
! > actually they were spot on and you know hence this horrible post as a way to eradicate what I said
! I just have a hearty chuckle at how you keep chucking them then go back to arranging my posts.
! @choperman:
! > And I'm comparing it to other horrible events in other mangas we all felt were stupid, which is allowed or are comparisons to complex for your feeble mind to comprehend
! Comparisons are for people who aren't capable of debating just the facts of the manga they're discussing. In your case you're using them terribly comparing totally different characters and executions.
! @choperman:
! > WHAT!!!!???? your acting like a 5 year old I'm not saying there bad because there not what I would do there bad because there was no rhyme or reason for it it was completely random and went against what he had stated before hand,
! Lol, this is gold. You keep prattling on no rhyme or reason for option B out of only two options happening, he lives or he doesn't, with plenty of hints and decent execution for option B.
! @choperman:
! > your the 5 year old your acting like you can't say a manga you likes bad but can give the same criticisms to mangas you hate, your biased cry baby
! Your problem is that you wanted and propped yourself up for another Ace which you could cry and wail about. And now you're just whining about the disappointment you brought upon yourself.
! @choperman:
! > okay well you know what oda should have had Law come and bring ace back to life the next chapter after ace died, cause it's just a cliffhanger and that's apparently an excuse to completely disregard anything you said/stated before
! This is what I mean at being terrible at comparisons. For the record Ace surviving would have been as acceptable as him dying and a lot of people were expecting he'd survive after he was freed. Because it was a legitimate option.
! @choperman:
! > And the exact reasoning as to why your arguments are bull shit
! A character well established in being a master at medicine performing medicine makes all my arguments invalid? Oh, you just randomly spouted something offensive because you couldn't think of anything relevant to say.
! @choperman:
! > White Beard destroyed marineford that's an excuse as to why Ace should have lived I guess, completely the same both gaping holes through their chest
! Again terrible comparisons. Different story, different fight mechanics, different injuries. Especially when one character was pierced on the side with a small hole and the other had a huge flaming fist in the middle of the sternum that burned up all the internal organs. And especially when both series have had their share of ridiculous injuries being survived as the plot suited it. But a hole in the chest is like a black vortex of death right?
! @choperman:
! > So he can heal anything now hell deaths not a problem in this series anymore great I feel like I'm reading Naruto now
! Akisame clearly wouldn't have been able to bring back Apachai if he hadn't revived himself in the first place. That actually would have been terrible Naruto-level writing. But a shonen character using a sudden reserve of strength to avoid death and let himself be treated? That's classic shonen
! @choperman:
! > 1. you didn't tear it apart it's still by all definition a dues ex machina
! Even after I proved it isn't?
! @choperman:
! > and people expecting it doesn't discredit that and
! If people expect an event to happen because it meets with the rules of the world and can sensibly happen, it's not a deus ex machina.
! @choperman:
! > 2. you are an obsessive fan boy as can be seen how you tear apart mangas for shit, and than when one you like does it your fine with it not raging in the cage like you did for the other
! You're talking to the guy who admitted not liking the plot twist that much, the forefront champion of Negima of this forum who's one of the few who writes criticisms about it in the respective thread. Quit employing generic attacks that clearly don't apply.
! @choperman:
! > LIKE? really that's your argument, so your saying there's nothing the author could have done better than making up some stupid deus ex machina
! I'm not really claiming this as a huge determining factor as much as the largest con of killing Apachai. And the main character losing his mentor when he hasn't learned everything he could from him is kinda a problem. I'm still waiting for those ideas of yours though. Oh and not a deus ex machina.
! @choperman:
! > Yes it is you didn't in any way prove that it's not, it's by the books definition a dues ex machina why can't you just except that
! You mean other than for the fact it doesn't meet any of the basic criterion?
! @choperman:
! > who will all be beaten by the masters with no big consquences happening because of it…. Great just great
! Wow, I didn't know you could predict the future. Again this arc more than anything set a foundation that it could happen. Especially the elder who doesn't even teach Kenichi any styles and has a thing with the leader of the enemy organization.
! @choperman:
! > Which could be done without said dues ex machina, So anythings allowed as long as it helps the character attain his goals… well bleach and naruto look a lot better already
! So conceding there are things Apachai has left to do? Can we Just assume every time you mention deus ex machina, that I'm rejecting it every time? It's getting tiring.
! @choperman:
! > It's the exact opposite it shows no matter if they even die nothing bad can happen to these masters, IDK where you get your shit from… oh yeah you make random shit up and think it's actually been written into the story I forgot
! Kenichi almost experienced a loss for the first time. Something he never imagined happening. It's gonna leave a mark. Quit projecting your feelings into the main character's.
! @choperman:
! > The point of apachi not dying does more than just hurt the point of this arc it hurts the story as a whole, it basically says no matter what even in death masters will come back and win
! Again
THE ARC WAS POINTLESS
No the point was this…
RANDOM COMPLAINT X THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE POINT
Trying to sneak in the word point doesn't change that you switched to discussing loss of suspense from now on. I already addressed the master dying thing. And lol if you thought Apachai's revival was anything but a one time thing.
! @choperman:
! > It's called comparison it's good to use when trying to show why something is bad by showing something similar
! Then stop comparing different situations only similar on the premise alone.
! @choperman:
! > that's debtable but we won't get into that here
! Lol, you actually liked that fight? And you're trying to debate story structure?
! @choperman:
! > Masters continue to win with no real threat ever coming about, they defeated an enemy so did naruto, and everyone who died came back to life…. where's the difference
! This is exactly why comparisons are stupid especially with people who can't even use them properly. Because it eventually devolves into a bunch of inane drivel based on the smallest of similarities.
! "Hey, in Naruto the bad guy was defeated and there was revival in it and it was in Kenichi too!!!" And in manga x, y and z. You're disregarding the execution, story hints, subtle details to base everything on a house of cards. Stick to this manga dude.
! @choperman:
! > masters continued to beat said fodder with only one beating someone of importance, everythings the same you just don't want to see it because your a fucking annoying fanboy… and the fight may have been much better but that doesn't discredit it from the complaints that the other recieved for doing the exact same thing
! So where were the squandered characters, bad art, terrible fights, forced shallow drama and all the other list of complaints?
! THERE WAS ONE REVIVAL IN IT.
! Oh wow identical. In that series and practically every other.
! @choperman:
! > He just saw that basically no matter what his masters can be brought back to life, how would this change shit
! He just saw a master almost die and only live through a miracle. He actually thought he had died for a while. It changed quite a bit. Not as much as a master actually dying but it changed his point of view that they're immortal killing machines (without the killing) alright.
! @choperman:
! > as is your fanboyesque logic
! Ha, fanboyesque. Keep the gold coming.
! @choperman:
! > People agree with me and that's an insult????
! It's insulting to you because you don't have the confidence to stick to your points without rushing for aid from someone else. Stick to your chops, you don't see me rushing to whoever agreed with me.
! @choperman:
! > calm down I don't hate all 2010 posters but he's commending Thousand lion for doing shit, so yes I took the liberty to give him a punch back
! You're not so much punching as flailing around wildly. -
everybody remember when shou died. that was some character development. but him dieing would
make him all emo and stuff and nobody would want that. apachai will be down and out for a while
and make have shortented his lfe if that makes anyone happy
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All right i'm 32 volumes in and Kenichi and shigure are being confronted by a large number of swordsmen one of them whom shigure says that she might fall to the blade of (can't remember the dude's name he's tall and looks like the lead singer of the cure).
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I'm starting to think the Robert Smith look was intentional. I thought the same thing at first, too.
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he look like edward scissor hands
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I'm starting to think the Robert Smith look was intentional. I thought the same thing at first, too.
I was expecting him to start singing Boys Don't Cry if you know what I mean.
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Apparently mangastream has dropped HSDK since someone they respect has asked them to.
Anyway here is a raw I found. http://tieba.baidu.com/f?kz=940472571 -
! He's allllllllllllllllive:cwy:
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I am liking this Mountain Massacre arc, Seigfried (probably my favorite character aside from Tanimoto) just showed up. I didn't expect the siblings from america to attack the russian forces.
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nice to see apachai getting better and the shinpaku alliance visiting. i wish they did something in this arc but it was tooo dangerous for them this time round .
man another tanslator bites the dust. kishido needs to hurry up and not depend on binkopedia to pick it up again.
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You can read Chapter 408 here: http://www.mangahere.com/manga/historys_strongest_disciple_kenichi/v42/c408/1.html
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Maybe the worst chapter ever.
Nothing new (just Kenichi is half way recovered((what a surprise))) and then that scene were Kenichi thought to see a dead Apachai under the blanket.
Now making jokes about Apachais dead, when it would have helped that series but the mangaka clearly has no balls to do so… thats just fucking lame and disappointing. -
I don't know if it would have been worth it, though. Think of the impact it would have on Kenichi's character. The most obvious path would be the dreaded 'emo phase' as people call it, which is rarely ever good.
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@Don:
Maybe the worst chapter ever.
Nothing new (just Kenichi is half way recovered((what a surprise))) and then that scene were Kenichi thought to see a dead Apachai under the blanket.
Now making jokes about Apachais dead, when it would have helped that series but the mangaka clearly has no balls to do so… thats just fucking lame and disappointing.I have to agree with this post, I always liked this series albeit being too ecchi often but this is first time I am close of dropping or having long break for first time.
It seriosly feels like Naruto's pain arc conclusion…
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lol, overreaction much.
nice chap, good to see apachai's got his appetite back ^-^/
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I have to agree with this post, I always liked this series albeit being too ecchi often but this is first time I am close of dropping or having long break for first time.
It seriosly feels like Naruto's pain arc conclusion…
Does that mean your equaling Apachai's death to the large bulk of Konoha's population that died? Wow, I think you like this series more then you think.
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Does that mean your equaling Apachai's death to the large bulk of Konoha's population that died? Wow, I think you like this series more then you think.
Let's not start this again….. please
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I'm on volume 35 in the midst of the 300 chapters i'm almost caught up with this series. Right now i'm at the part kenichi is trying to save this young girl yomi member, renka now goes to kenichi's school and has noticed that takeda is pretty good at fighting so now kenichi and takeda are having a sparring match. I've been waiting for a rematch for quite some time and so far it's not dissapointing.
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well i saw spoilers somewhere and the gist is something like thsi
! the masters are all wanted criminals due to their actions at the US embassy place, thus their dissapearance and this leave Miu and Kenpachi alone at the dojo
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well i saw spoilers somewhere and the gist is something like thsi
! the masters are all wanted criminals due to their actions at the US embassy place, thus their dissapearance and this leave Miu and Kenpachi alone at the dojo
! Ha! Hilarious. I'm liking this turn of events.