All this Sakazuki talk made me take out my Kaizoku Musou 2 copy so I could kick some ass with him. And let me tell you- asses were kicked.
General 'Four Emperors' Discussion
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That feeling you get when people ignore you.
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We can also agree that he has no scars. Not from Marco and Vista anyway. The cover looks clear enough.
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WRONG.
Sakazuki sexiness at maximum and dangerous level already.
I find Kizaru to be the sexiest of the Admirals, but im eagerly anticipating the Green Bull with a DON.
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We can also agree that he has no scars. Not from Marco and Vista anyway. The cover looks clear enough.
I heard and agreed with you, Razh, just didn't explicitly say so. It's pretty clear all of that is stylistic shading in the artwork.
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I heard and agreed with you, Razh, just didn't explicitly say so. It's pretty clear all of that is stylistic shading in the artwork.
Well yeah. As a logia, you either get hurt with Haki, or absorb the attack and don't get hurt. From that Akainu scene, I can only assume Marco and Vista's Haki wasn't strong enough to hurt him. It looks like, in order to wound a logia, your Haki needs to be stronger than his Haki.
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WRONG.
Sakazuki sexiness at maximum and dangerous level already.
So that's the reason for little numbers of female marines. I guess constantly fainting around your commanding officer would significatly lower their combat effectiveness…
Which is something that Sakazuki would totaly thought, since he cares not for your puny affection! It all makes sense now.
All this Sakazuki talk made me take out my Kaizoku Musou 2 copy so I could kick some ass with him. And let me tell you- asses were kicked.
Sigh… I really should buy a PS3.
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Just made this video talking about the Yonko in general, what purpose they may have going forward, and what their intentions are toward the King of the Pirates and the One Piece.
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The more I think about it, the more I am getting convinced that Kaido doesn't have an impregnable body like Linlin, but rather an ability that gives him an overhuman luck that manages to keep him alive and safe from everything (think of Steel Ball Run's Pocoloco).
I've been thinking about Luffy's current fight and how it apparently doesn't have any weight to the plot. Sure taking Katakuri with him meant keep the SH safe from such a dangerous enemy before, but after Luffy successfully managed to lock Katakuri in the Mirro-world alone, that reason was lost.
The end of this arc, for the first time, has nothing to do with Luffy and his effort to defeat his enemy. Even if he loses to Katakuri, the result of the arc will be the same. He is trying surpass this enemy not because the SH safety hangs on that like in every arc before, surpass the enemy is the end in itself not a means to an end.Now, a while back, we know Oda was struggling to think of a convincing way to make Luffy defeat someone as strong as Kaido. A while back this arc was also meant to be much shorter since Oda actually thought in 2017 we would already had entered Wano (and Sanji would already get his crowning moment to make 2017 worth of the Year of Sanji title). But something changed.
It seems pretty obvious to me at this point that the fully drawn out fight against Katakuri and this new ability to see the future is the answer Oda was looking for. The future prediction will play a role in defeating Kaido, and while it is a stretch to think this is a hint Kaido will have a luck-based power, I think it would be a perfect match since Kaido power could try to place him in a comfortable position given the dangers that it would befall him only for Luffy to change the future based on his prediction, nullify the "luck's prediction".
And I still think this luck will be a side-effect of a Kirin DF.
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@.access:
The more I think about it, the more I am getting convinced that Kaido doesn't have an impregnable body like Linlin, but rather an ability that gives him an overhuman luck that manages to keep him alive and safe from everything (think of Steel Ball Run's Pocoloco).
But that means Kaido will win the PK race in the end.
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Yeah, the giant scar on Kaido makes it evident he can be harmed. But he seems to be able to compensate for that by those injuries not amounting to much. And he's immune to certain weapons too for good measure. Looking forward to finding out what caused the scar.
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I would guess the scar came from his first defeat, personally.
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I still want it to be a failed seppuku attempt.
I don't know Kaido as a character reminds me of this:
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Pretty sure Whitebeard gave him the scar.
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I just want more segment where his crew are hyping him by talking about his suicide attempts.
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He's eaten an entire case of tide pods
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Steal his shadow? Bwahaha fools, have you not heard. Lord Kaido once stood out in the hottest dessert during no shadow time!
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Try out my first game! All feedback is welcome, enjoy and thanks. Heroine: Kiku
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@.access:
The more I think about it, the more I am getting convinced that Kaido doesn't have an impregnable body like Linlin, but rather an ability that gives him an overhuman luck that manages to keep him alive and safe from everything (think of Steel Ball Run's Pocoloco).
Impregnable is one word I wouldn't describe Big Mom's body with.
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I think kaidou has same thing as BM, and even BB seems to have something like that, hard body. If kaido had luck, then he would not get captured so many times, he would always luck his way out, just like how SHs now luck their way out of getting captured by bm. And instead on falling in the ground ,he would fall on something soft…out of luck. I think the Whole point of shanks and luff yis to show how normal guys like them got on par with natural born beasts like kaidou, bm, bb, with hard training. So it's born strong vs made strong by training.
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I still don't like how Big Mom has this "iron balloon body" or whatever when we haven't seen her use this defense for anything remarkable yet aside from maybe getting struck by Zeus' lightning (and that's a feat I can see any Yonko surviving like Whitebeard in Marineford). I'm not talking about the unique condition in how she was born, I'm fine with the whole Natural Born Destroyer thing. Just the "iron body" part.
The first time we ever learn about the "iron body" is from Bege when he's talking about the plan for the wedding and how his damaging Carmel's portrait is the only way to harm her. At no point in any of Big Mom's previous appearances is the iron body alluded to. We could have seen it during her fight against Brook. But nope, that got off-paneled for no reason. All we ever see and hear about is her Devil Fruit and absurd strength, which are already overpowered enough as is.
Then Bege brings it up out of nowhere and the only response I have is "…Okay, this apparently exists". Which is okay, not everything needs to be foreshadowed. Oda likes to make up lots of things as he goes, I get it.
But the more I think about it, the more I think the "iron body" is unnecessary. Why can't Big Mom simply have REALLY strong Armament Haki instead, maybe a type that is always active or something (Oda asspulled Katakuri seeing the future and has inconsistent showings of colorless Armament Haki, he can get away with this). That is an element of One Piece that is already established and it would have the portrait weakness make sense. If Haki is mastered through focused willpower, than the psychological shock from the crushed portrait can break the concentration maintaining her armor.
Or, you know, why have an iron body altogether? Why can't Bege's plan be necessary simply because of how it is the only way to get at Big Mom by exploiting a psychological weakness while her whole crew is distracted? It doesn't have to be the only way to kill Big Mom so much as the only opportunity kill Big Mom.
The iron body bothers me a bit because it makes me wonder what exactly can overcome that if Carmel's portrait is not around? Because on paper, if this iron body really is impenetrable, she should technically be invincible. But I doubt that Oda would want to build-up the other Yonko so much if they don't have a tangible way to give Big Mom a tough fight. Which implies that Big Mom's "iron body" can be pierced by being really strong. And if that's the case, why does the "iron body" need to exist at all? Why not just have her body be… normal? At least for a natural born disaster.
Whitebeard didn't need an "iron body" to do all of the stuff he did in Marineford. Tough characters survive near-death experiences all of the time by having firm determination. So why does Big Mom need this "iron body? I don't know. It's still random to me. Especially when we're not going to see Luffy ever defeat Big Mom on-panel and somebody else is probably going to sweep her off the board for the series' endgame.
About Kaido though, I hope his "immortality" is something like luck to distinguish himself from Big Mom. And hopefully it has to do with whatever Devil Fruit he has rather than a pure gag. Luck is absolutely something I can see Oda doing like the kooky author that he is. But a character having the superpower of luck is difficult to write around in a convincing way if they need to be defeated. Like Access said though, Luffy learning foresight from Katakuri could be the key. As well as maybe Awakening too.
Spoiler:
"Life's not about finding out which card is yours, but finding out which cards you're not."
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The only problem with iron body is that we already have haki and tekkai take make your body hard like that, haki is already the iron body of the new world with all those haki users. So if bm iron body because of her haki or just because… born like that. And can you get born with strong haki? Is BM body that tough because it's a combo of her haki and tough body?
Even vergo, defeated some years ago is still unclear if sanji's '' it's like your body is iron something'' is because of his haki or tekkai( since he also used geppou and other cp9 techniques). If it was haki, then sanji as haki user should recognize haki, no?
And there is also ''invisible'' CoA still la think post ts that makes it all even more unclear. Feels wierd for oda to still give vague description when we have multiple ways to make the body tough.
And can you even combine all 3 to make the ultimate body?
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@Count:
I still don't like how Big Mom has this "iron balloon body" or whatever when we haven't seen her use this defense for anything remarkable yet aside from maybe getting struck by Zeus' lightning (and that's a feat I can see any Yonko surviving like Whitebeard in Marineford). I'm not talking about the unique condition in how she was born, I'm fine with the whole Natural Born Destroyer thing. Just the "iron body" part.
I always thought the "iron body" thing was haki, but with obscure clumsy wording by Oda that may have been difficult to translate into english. The way you explain it makes perfect sense and can even be retrofitted in her flashback if we just accept she's had insane innate haki ever since her childhood.
Speaking of which, chapter 867 when old Yorle's sword breaks on her arm would be the only notable occurence of her "iron body" defending against anything.Unless "natural born destroyers" are a thing in the OP universe and we're going to hear more about them later, but I doubt that.
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I still don't like how Big Mom has this "iron balloon body" or whatever
The iron body is there because although Big Mom may be an all powerfull pirate, she is still a woman and Oda countless times in the past has shown that he is extremely reluctant to rough up his female characters.
So voila, incredibly tough iron body that doesn't even bleed even in the most ridiculous circumstances!
I don't believe that we should think too hard about it.
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I thought Armament Haki was part of this Iron Baloon Body thing, but okay then.
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We could explain the iron body away through armament haki. Just like some people are born with prodigal observation haki/mantra (Aisa from skypiea?) we can have some who are born with an unconsciously ever-present armament haki.
My issue starts here though; haki can be depleted but people like Aisa and Enel use it constantly and I just found it awkward that Oda belatedly put the depletion cap on.
I also want to question Madam Shyarly's future-sight. Is that observation haki too? or just something completely different (like how the iron body is supposed to be different than armament)? I can't remember if her future-sight was explained?
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I also want to question Madam Shyarly's future-sight. Is that observation haki too? or just something completely different (like how the iron body is supposed to be different than armament)? I can't remember if her future-sight was explained?
To the best of my knowledge it wasn't, but I'd say it was completely unrelated to haki. Anyway it only served to create fake tension that lost any relevance after the arc (almost as cheap as the baron corpse twist in Zo :getlost:) so I don't think we'll ever hear about it again. Maybe just a "told you so" panel a decade from now, when Luffy (or anyone wearing a straw hat, since that's the only thing we really saw) actually does something that sets in motion the end of Fishman Island as we know it. Or a lot sooner if an angered Big Mom exerts revenge over the fishmen after the present arc's over all because Luffy gave her the Tamatebako.
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To the best of my knowledge it wasn't, but I'd say it was completely unrelated to haki. Anyway it only served to create fake tension that lost any relevance after the arc (almost as cheap as the baron corpse twist in Zo :getlost:) so I don't think we'll ever hear about it again. Maybe just a "told you so" panel a decade from now, when Luffy (or anyone wearing a straw hat, since that's the only thing we really saw) actually does something that sets in motion the end of Fishman Island as we know it. Or a lot sooner if an angered Big Mom exerts revenge over the fishmen after the present arc's over all because Luffy gave her the Tamatebako.
It' probably result from the end final war imo
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@Count:
I still don't like how Big Mom has this "iron balloon body" or whatever when we haven't seen her use this defense for anything remarkable yet aside from maybe getting struck by Zeus' lightning (and that's a feat I can see any Yonko surviving like Whitebeard in Marineford). I'm not talking about the unique condition in how she was born, I'm fine with the whole Natural Born Destroyer thing. Just the "iron body" part.
The first time we ever learn about the "iron body" is from Bege when he's talking about the plan for the wedding and how his damaging Carmel's portrait is the only way to harm her. At no point in any of Big Mom's previous appearances is the iron body alluded to. We could have seen it during her fight against Brook. But nope, that got off-paneled for no reason. All we ever see and hear about is her Devil Fruit and absurd strength, which are already overpowered enough as is.
Then Bege brings it up out of nowhere and the only response I have is "…Okay, this apparently exists". Which is okay, not everything needs to be foreshadowed. Oda likes to make up lots of things as he goes, I get it.
But the more I think about it, the more I think the "iron body" is unnecessary. Why can't Big Mom simply have REALLY strong Armament Haki instead, maybe a type that is always active or something
It will probably end up being a passive always active kind of Haki, though. The fact it disappears when she is heavily disturbed shows it is something that requires some degree of control even if she does it subconsciously. It's just that its true nature wasn't explained yet.
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Not to mention a G4 punch still required her to haki up her arm
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@.access:
It will probably end up being a passive always active kind of Haki, though. The fact it disappears when she is heavily disturbed shows it is something that requires some degree of control even if she does it subconsciously. It's just that its true nature wasn't explained yet.
The big question here is if Oda thinks it ever needs to be explained. It could simply be a part of her natural born destroyer status since birth. Bege emphasizes how her skin itself is tough, not Haki.
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And we still don't even know why Big Mom wants Germa's clone tech besides more power lol, although maybe there is some big reveal at the end of the arc for that int he same way Shirahoshi got revealed to be Poseidon (but at least that got buildup).
Spoiler:
"Life's not about finding out which card is yours, but finding out which cards you're not."
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@K.:
Steal his shadow? Bwahaha fools, have you not heard. Lord Kaido once stood out in the hottest dessert during no shadow time!
He clearly had a shadow then… (That pun doesn't work in English or does it? Do you say 'have a shadow' for 'be out of your senses'?)
Forum user Bartholemew Bear passed away in a very moving and touching way. I, ARTEMlS, therefore carry on the Will of DArth for good unto its final fulfilment.
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He clearly had a shadow then… (That pun doesn't work in English or does it? Do you say 'have a shadow' for 'be out of your senses'?)
Nope. I have never heard of such a saying until now. The closest saying that comes to mind is "beyond a shadow of a doubt".
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I think between her iron baloon body, being so tall and bearing so many damn kids, Big Mom is just a freak of nature.
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@Count:
And we still don't even know why Big Mom wants Germa's clone tech besides more power lol, although maybe there is some big reveal at the end of the arc for that int he same way Shirahoshi got revealed to be Poseidon (but at least that got buildup).
I mean, Kaido wanted a Devil Fruit Factory for more power as well lol.
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I mean, Kaido wanted a Devil Fruit Factory for more power as well lol.
But at least we know he wants to end the world with a giant war because of being obsessed with suicide, and his arc hasn't even started yet. Meanwhile, we're over sixty chapters into Big Mom's arc and we still don't know she she had to betray the Vinsmokes to get the clone tech instead of simply allying with them lol.
Spoiler:
"Life's not about finding out which card is yours, but finding out which cards you're not."
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@Count:
But at least we know he wants to end the world with a giant war because of being obsessed with suicide, and his arc hasn't even started yet. Meanwhile, we're over sixty chapters into Big Mom's arc and we still don't know she she had to betray the Vinsmokes to get the clone tech instead of simply allying with them lol.
If you consider allyinh with them means aiding them to conquer the entire North Blue that isn't in their interests then betray them and getting their tech seems the better path for their own self-interests.
Also since you assume Kaido wants to make a war because of his obsession with suicide, I could connect the dots and assume it has something to do with the gigantification formula she asked Caesar to develop.
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It think she wants the germa tech to clone herself and make army of Big Moms. From all her 80-90 kids, none got the size from bm, all are small compared to her. All based on her dream.
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@Count:
I still don't like how Big Mom has this "iron balloon body" or whatever when we haven't seen her use this defense for anything remarkable yet aside from maybe getting struck by Zeus' lightning (and that's a feat I can see any Yonko surviving like Whitebeard in Marineford). I'm not talking about the unique condition in how she was born, I'm fine with the whole Natural Born Destroyer thing. Just the "iron body" part.
The first time we ever learn about the "iron body" is from Bege when he's talking about the plan for the wedding and how his damaging Carmel's portrait is the only way to harm her. At no point in any of Big Mom's previous appearances is the iron body alluded to. We could have seen it during her fight against Brook. But nope, that got off-paneled for no reason. All we ever see and hear about is her Devil Fruit and absurd strength, which are already overpowered enough as is.
Then Bege brings it up out of nowhere and the only response I have is "…Okay, this apparently exists". Which is okay, not everything needs to be foreshadowed. Oda likes to make up lots of things as he goes, I get it.
But the more I think about it, the more I think the "iron body" is unnecessary. Why can't Big Mom simply have REALLY strong Armament Haki instead, maybe a type that is always active or something (Oda asspulled Katakuri seeing the future and has inconsistent showings of colorless Armament Haki, he can get away with this). That is an element of One Piece that is already established and it would have the portrait weakness make sense. If Haki is mastered through focused willpower, than the psychological shock from the crushed portrait can break the concentration maintaining her armor.
Or, you know, why have an iron body altogether? Why can't Bege's plan be necessary simply because of how it is the only way to get at Big Mom by exploiting a psychological weakness while her whole crew is distracted? It doesn't have to be the only way to kill Big Mom so much as the only opportunity kill Big Mom.
The iron body bothers me a bit because it makes me wonder what exactly can overcome that if Carmel's portrait is not around? Because on paper, if this iron body really is impenetrable, she should technically be invincible. But I doubt that Oda would want to build-up the other Yonko so much if they don't have a tangible way to give Big Mom a tough fight. Which implies that Big Mom's "iron body" can be pierced by being really strong. And if that's the case, why does the "iron body" need to exist at all? Why not just have her body be… normal? At least for a natural born disaster.
Whitebeard didn't need an "iron body" to do all of the stuff he did in Marineford. Tough characters survive near-death experiences all of the time by having firm determination. So why does Big Mom need this "iron body? I don't know. It's still random to me. Especially when we're not going to see Luffy ever defeat Big Mom on-panel and somebody else is probably going to sweep her off the board for the series' endgame.
About Kaido though, I hope his "immortality" is something like luck to distinguish himself from Big Mom. And hopefully it has to do with whatever Devil Fruit he has rather than a pure gag. Luck is absolutely something I can see Oda doing like the kooky author that he is. But a character having the superpower of luck is difficult to write around in a convincing way if they need to be defeated. Like Access said though, Luffy learning foresight from Katakuri could be the key. As well as maybe Awakening too.
The iron body seems to compensate for Big Mom's weakness of high metabolism. Because even though her defenses are ridiculous, she lacks a crucial ability many top-level fighters have and that's endurance - we've heard of fights lasting days on end, but Big Mom has weakened considerably after only eight hours. So to me it's a nice way to give a Yonko a different ability set other than simply being able to tank injuries. Though I do agree it could have been introduced before Bege; the anime included a scene where Brook couldn't cut Big Mom and it was very, very appreciated.
My guess is that should you deal a heavy blow to Big Mom, that'd have a considerably bigger impact on her since afawk she's never been defeated or even injured by an opponent in her lifetime. Whereas Kaido's immortality designation results from him actually being able to take these abuses and blows.
Spoiler:
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If you consider allyinh with them means aiding them to conquer the entire North Blue that isn't in their interests then betray them and getting their tech seems the better path for their own self-interests.
I would love that to be the reason, but none of the Big Mom Pirates in the story have mentioned that.
Also since you assume Kaido wants to make a war because of his obsession with suicide, I could connect the dots and assume it has something to do with the gigantification formula she asked Caesar to develop.
I can too. But even if that does get explained by the end of the arc, I don't like how we sloppily don't get any breadcrumbs at least justifying the betrayal while its relevant in the story.
@Kaido:
The iron body seems to compensate for Big Mom's weakness of high metabolism. Because even though her defenses are ridiculous, she lacks a crucial ability many top-level fighters have and that's endurance - we've heard of fights lasting days on end, but Big Mom has weakened considerably after only eight hours. So to me it's a nice way to give a Yonko a different ability set other than simply being able to tank injuries. Though I do agree it could have been introduced before Bege; the anime included a scene where Brook couldn't cut Big Mom and it was very, very appreciated.
Isn't this only because Big Mom is suffering from hunger pangs though? I like your reasoning, but I'm pretty sure Big Mom is weakening because she has been really REALLY hungry for least several hours.
The anime did that? Awesome! Toei gets one point. For once.
My guess is that should you deal a heavy blow to Big Mom, that'd have a considerably bigger impact on her since afawk she's never been defeated or even injured by an opponent in her lifetime. Whereas Kaido's immortality designation results from him actually being able to take these abuses and blows.
Perhaps.
Spoiler:
"Life's not about finding out which card is yours, but finding out which cards you're not."
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@Count:
Isn't this only because Big Mom is suffering from hunger pangs though? I like your reasoning, but I'm pretty sure Big Mom is weakening because she has been really REALLY hungry for least several hours.
.Well presumably, if Big Mom got stuck in a long Aokiji vs Akainu/Ace vs Jinbe-length fight, she wouldn't have the time to stop and eat anything.
As I type this though, I wonder: does Big Mom only get weak like this if she is suffering a craving for a certain food or if she goes any particularly long length of time without eating? I love the idea of her having "low endurance", but maybe it's not really the case.
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Big Mom can just give life to anything and have them bring the food in a long prolonged fight.
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This post is deleted!
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I don't think her opponent would let her take a meal in the middle of a fight
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She would just eat while she beats you up. She send an army of homies while she has a cup of tea.
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@Count:
But at least we know he wants to end the world with a giant war because of being obsessed with suicide, and his arc hasn't even started yet. Meanwhile, we're over sixty chapters into Big Mom's arc and we still don't know she she had to betray the Vinsmokes to get the clone tech instead of simply allying with them lol.
It was probably since she didn't have to waste her resources in a podunk sea like the North Blue. But really, would YOU want to deal with the Vinsmokes as in-laws? :P
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@Count:
But at least we know he wants to end the world with a giant war because of being obsessed with suicide, and his arc hasn't even started yet. Meanwhile, we're over sixty chapters into Big Mom's arc and we still don't know she she had to betray the Vinsmokes to get the clone tech instead of simply allying with them lol.
She seems to simply use marriages as long as they interest her. After Lola and Chiffon were born she made Pound take a hike.
Pralline marying Alladin and Chiffon marying Bege makes those two crews her "rooks", forces in their army, they interest her. But the Vinsmokes are ambitious, they also want to be kings, and that's something that she has no interest in, only in the technology.At least that's my take on the situation, she's simply a very egotistical person.
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She seems to simply use marriages as long as they interest her. After Lola and Chiffon were born she made Pound take a hike.
Pralline marying Alladin and Chiffon marying Bege makes those two crews her "rooks", forces in their army, they interest her. But the Vinsmokes are ambitious, they also want to be kings, and that's something that she has no interest in, only in the technology.At least that's my take on the situation, she's simply a very egotistical person.
She gets rid of all her husbands, so that's a reasonable pattern I can get since the husbands are only useful for their genes.
The fact that she made Bege and Jinbe esteemed allies of her crew is the inconsistency that bothers me. Because if she values their support and resources, then why not treat the Vinsmokes the same way? The Vinsmokes are a family of super soldier mercenaries for crying out loud, they're bound to at least be useful on a tactical front. They seem to get along pretty well outside of that one moment Judge mentioned giants in her library (but the assassination had to be planned way earlier than that so Big Mom couldn't have been that irrationally triggered anyways).
If there was an issue with the Vinsmokes' behavior or goals for Big Mom, then the story should have mentioned it by now. But it hasn't. Which is honestly lazy.
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I'm a bit disappointed in Big Mom and her crew.
Katakuri as a 1st Mate can't compete with Rayleigh or Marco especially not in Roger's Era and probably not even now. I hope Jack and Beckman are better than this.
And Big Mom strikes me as weaker than dying WB. Although i do think Dying WB is the strongest yonkou we'll see except Kaido and EoS BlackBeard.
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In what aspect is Katakuri weaker than Marco? What did he do during the war that was so impressive? Kick Kizaru dealing 0 damage? Get seastone cuffed by a vice admiral like a fool and proceed to get pwned by Kizaru? Slash Sakazuki for 0 damage, like Vista? Then lose to Teach so badly during the TS that he went into hiding? And Big Mom has seemed like an utter fool at times during this arc, but the closest she got to being scratched was when her own weapon, made from her own soul, electrocuted her. In the meantime, she has been an unstoppable monster, who has only been slightly delayed here and there. I agree that Whitebeard and Kaido's portrayals were far more badass and epic, but it does not seem that they are more powerful, in a strict sense. Hell, 5 year old Linlin did to a legendary giant warrior of Elbaf what old Whitebeard did to some giant vice admiral in Marineford. Katakuri has been pretty impressive too, but I would agree that he is below other first mates, since his bounty is only a little bit above Jack, which means King's bounty should be higher than Kata's. I know bounty is not strength, but in this case it is a rough estimator.
