Kljs no we are makeing it on the asumption that Shanks is a swordsman and can only fight using a sword.
since hawkeyes is "the worlds strongest swordsman" he must, if shanks only fights with a sword, be stronger then shanks.
Kljs no we are makeing it on the asumption that Shanks is a swordsman and can only fight using a sword.
since hawkeyes is "the worlds strongest swordsman" he must, if shanks only fights with a sword, be stronger then shanks.
Even if shanks can fight with other styles they won't be his strongest. Shanks has already shown us his primary style by attacking Whitebeard with a sword.
You cannot attack the strongest man in the world using an inferior style, you'd be decimated.
I still doubt Shanks is weaker than Mihawk… even in terms of swordfighting.....
i also doubt he,s weaker,but i also doubt he,s stronger..
I still doubt Shanks is weaker than Mihawk… even in terms of swordfighting.....
That's fine you may think whatever you want.
However FACTS disagree with you.
1. Mihawk is the BEST swordsman in the world
2. Shanks attacked Whitebeard (the strongest man in the world) with a sword
So shanks was Mihawks rival and now he isn't, how do I know this?
Simple the data book says they were rivals and Mihawk is the best swordsman in the world today. There is only one possible conclusion, Mihawk beat shanks. If he didn't they would still be rivals and mihawk wouldn't be the best.
Whoa guys lets not go down a 500th millionth Shanks Vs Mihawk argument!
They are boring and repetitive!
OT is a complex-compound question with a hidden desired conclusion from the OP. Let me illustrate in a simple manner how this logical fallacy scheme is intended to work:
Shichibukai = strong.
Strong = can get one piece.
Shichibukai = cannot get one piece.
therefore,
Shichibukai = not strong.
That's fine you may think whatever you want.
However FACTS disagree with you.
1. Mihawk is the BEST swordsman in the world
2. Shanks attacked Whitebeard (the strongest man in the world) with a swordSo shanks was Mihawks rival and now he isn't, how do I know this?
Simple the data book says they were rivals and Mihawk is the best swordsman in the world today. There is only one possible conclusion, Mihawk beat shanks. If he didn't they would still be rivals and mihawk wouldn't be the best.
i agree
Whoa guys lets not go down a 500th millionth Shanks Vs Mihawk argument!
They are boring and repetitive!
i agree again
anyway the topic's question is kinda…....
is it a fact that shanks attacked WB? didnt they just clash swords?
iirc Shanks said he didnt come to cause a war to his crew… so as far as we know clashing their swords could just as well have been like a handshake. (imo theres no way in hell anyone would be serious in attacking the strongest man in the world on his own ship alone)
i think you make too many assumptions and classify them as facts OiP
what do you mean alone in an enemy ship????
if shanks went in there to kill them all then all would attack him but since he went there to talk with WB and attacked him hy would the others interfere???
WB is a man of honour,he wouldn't allow anything like that
as long as it was just to talk i think noone would interfere but if shanks acctually managed to kill WB would everyone in WBs crew just let shanks leave after that or what would happen then?
my point is that i think shanks wasnt seriously trying to kill WB when he "attacked" him.
as long as it was just to talk i think noone would interfere but if shanks acctually managed to kill WB would everyone in WBs crew just let shanks leave after that or what would happen then?
my point is that i think shanks wasnt seriously trying to kill WB when he "attacked" him.
i see what you mean,well if he killed him then who knew what would happen,i remember luffy attacking mihawk when he thought he killed zoro
but the first thing is that he can't kill him and even if he could shanks is a very intelligent man and he wouldn't make the yonkou weaker
but shanks attacked Wb to prove he is serious about ace vs BB
which still doeesnt mean he was serious vs WB ^^
we are reaching an understanding here =)
Be it serious or not, how can you say "Shanks didn't attack Whitebeard, they only clashed swords?" Even if it wasn't serious, shanks would have to be trying hard to match the WORLDS STRONGEST MAN.
Or do you think it was some sort of choreographed fight scene?
! I can see it now Shanks rang Whitebeard up on the den den mushi saying "hey wassup beard, you ready for my latest prank?"
! "Ha you little pansy, what you got?"
! "Check it! I told my crew we were going to have a peaceful negotiation"
! "Yeah you said you were coming with some of that Jack daniels whiskey"
! "Well here's the prank, let's pretend to get angry and clash swords. That way we'll scare yours and my crew @#$%less"
! "You little red haired devil…. I LIKE IT"
haha love the dendenmushi conversation =)
but you are still at a loss to explain WHY Shanks even need to be matching up to the worlds strongest man.
Let me use your train of logic for a moment.
If Shanks are seriously trying to match up to WB, the worlds strongest man, he must be close enough to be almost equal right? Shanks might even belive that he can win.
Now acording to you we know that Mihawk definetly is stronger and shanks dont really think he can win against him.
So since the gap is bigger between Mihawk and shanks then the one between WB and shanks Mihawk must be stronger then WB
So the worlds strongest swordsman is stronger then the worlds strongest man.
See what i did? i made assumptions that could be argued to be false (meaning i interperated the manga differently then you did.)
the assumptions are:
and by this we make another assumption that has no base in the manga whatsoever (its even contradicted)
But what we havent gotten out of you yet OiP is the following:
Or do you think it was some sort of choreographed fight scene?
it might have been a kind of handshake. you dont put your all into crushing someones hand while shaking it do you? its all up to interperation what it is.
haha love the dendenmushi conversation =)
but you are still at a loss to explain WHY Shanks even need to be matching up to the worlds strongest man.
Let me use your train of logic for a moment.
If Shanks are seriously trying to match up to WB, the worlds strongest man, he must be close enough to be almost equal right? Shanks might even belive that he can win.
Now acording to you we know that Mihawk definetly is stronger and shanks dont really think he can win against him.
So since the gap is bigger between Mihawk and shanks then the one between WB and shanks Mihawk must be stronger then WB
So the worlds strongest swordsman is stronger then the worlds strongest man.See what i did? i made assumptions that could be argued to be false (meaning i interperated the manga differently then you did.)
the assumptions are:
- the fight between WB and shanks are serious. (in my definition that means shanks thinks he can win) and it seems your definition is that they go full out.
- Shanks is a swordsman because he attacked WB with a sword.
- Shanks is weaker then Mihawk because mihawk is the greatest swordsman
- Shanks knows he is weaker since they have fought so many times.
and by this we make another assumption that has no base in the manga whatsoever (its even contradicted)
- Mihawk is stronger then WB.
But what we havent gotten out of you yet OiP is the following:
- were Shanks and WBs fight meant to kill each other or untill one of them give up? or was it just the clashing of the swords that we saw?
- If shanks managed to kill WB or the otherway around then what?
One un-named slash doesn't make you equal and since Whitebeard is the strongest man in the world, it would be shanks who may have been serious. While whitebeard used just enough power to block the strike.
I can see how you have interpreted the clash, but you can't possibly think one un-named attack clash makes them equal.
it might have been a kind of handshake. you dont put your all into crushing someones hand while shaking it do you? its all up to interperation what it is.
I think I'll take this as a joke, right….?
One un-named slash doesn't make you equal and since Whitebeard is the strongest man in the world, it would be shanks who may have been serious. While whitebeard used just enough power to block the strike.
thank you my point is proven.
I can see how you have interpreted the clash, but you can't possibly think one un-named attack clash makes them equal.
No that assumption was based on the fact that shanks attacked the worlds strongest man at all (assuming he is serious) since people at that power can according to Mihawk tell the power difference.
It was an assumtion i dont belive in since it was based on another assumption i dont agree on.
thank you my point is proven.
Proven what?
It's quite obvious shanks had to be the one using more strength since Whitebeard is the strongest. I guess I shouldn't have used the word MAY, I should have said "shanks is/was".
No that assumption was based on the fact that shanks attacked the worlds strongest man at all (assuming he is serious) since people at that power can according to Mihawk tell the power difference.
It was an assumtion i dont belive in since it was based on another assumption i dont agree on.
I don't know what you're trying to say, we know shanks is weaker than whitebeard. So it's obvious shanks had to be serious otherwise he'd have been crushed. There's also the fact shanks had his spirit on full and Whitebeard had no mention of spirit.
You can interprete that however you please, but the true interpretation is obvious. Shanks with spirit attacked whitebeard with no spirit, one is serious and one isn't.
ARGH you still cant see my point? I have for a while suspected that you dont entirely read posts or is it so that you arent on the same page as me because English isnt your native language?
ok lets take it one step at a time:
What if Shanks and White Beard was NOT trying to kill each other?
okay, lets try a "crazy" idea… first of all they are pirates right? i dont remember pirates handshaking nor obeying to any laws on socialy correct manners, so basicay i think they were complimenting each other. or kinda measuring each other strengts to prove they're not weaklings. second the power should be balanced so killing another emperor wouldnt be good... next we have no idea what shanks is capable of since we dont know his fighting stile, just cuz he used a sword? alot of pirates use sword but that doesnt make them swordsmen... shanks and mihawk bein rivals doesnt mean they were rivals in swordsmanship or does it? and shanks doest seem the type of guy who could stand not being the strongest on what he is best...
the only thing that is certain is that the powers (rebels, emperors, WG , shishibukay) is balaced... and that is how it should continue...
ARGH you still cant see my point?
I've seen your point, I'm just saying you're wrong.
I have for a while suspected that you dont entirely read posts or is it so that you arent on the same page as me because English isnt your native language?
I won't bother commenting on your english, that would be a low blow. I'll just say this. If you think english isn't my native language, you need glasses.
ok lets take it one step at a time:
What if Shanks and White Beard was NOT trying to kill each other?
You just don't get it do you?
Being serious in One piece doesn't necceseraly mean you're trying to kill someone, it means you're using most or all of your strength.
Why do i say this? I say it because no-one in a present time OP fight has died. So it's obvious from OP physics that in a fight, you fight to win, not to kill.
Now I will show you the FACTS which I have used in my argument.
Shanks had his spirit power on, whitebeard didn't.
WHITEBEARD IS THE STRONGEST MAN IN THE WORLD, if he used a serious named attack while using spirit. Shanks would be dead, for the simple fact that whitebeard can beat anyone in OP.
Now show me the FACTS which support your argument and when I say FACT I don't mean OPINION.
I like how Whitebeard has been glorified to the point that people think he can defeat Shanks with a single attack.
Guys, this is silly.
First of all, to answer the initial question, One Piece is only meant to be found by one person, and that's the person who can become Pirate King: unsurpassed in wealth, fame, and strength.
Second, it doesn't matter HOW much strength Shanks put into his blow against Whitebeard. Shanks wasn't trying to kill Whitebeard; for crying out loud, Beckman, established as the smartest man in One Piece, said that their "Captain isn't stupid", indicating that Shanks knew what he was doing.
Case closed. If the smartest man in One Piece says Shanks knows what he's doing, he knows what he's doing.
Everyone advocates their hero. Let's just stop trying to put anyone ahead of anyone else and wait and see what happens.
Besides, the series began with Shanks being Luffy's hero, it will end with Shanks being Luffy's hero. Nothing you guys say will change that.
FFAce has a good point but Beckman is the smartest in East Blue not the smartest on the Grand LIne. He could be especially since most people are idiots but still.
@ultimateclima:
FFAce has a good point but Beckman is the smartest in East Blue not the smartest on the Grand LIne. He could be especially since most people are idiots but still.
I believe it was stated that Beckman was the greatest tactical genius in the grandline (ie-the world).
I like how Whitebeard has been glorified to the point that people think he can defeat Shanks with a single attack.
Yeah since although he's "The Strongest Man In The World" we don't know how Shanks, The other 2 Yonkou, Mihawk, and maybe Aokiji rank in comparison to him.
The gap between Whitebeard and people like shanks has to be big enough so that there is a clear winner but small enough that Whitebeard doesn't mop the floor with him.
I wasnt trying to call your english bad OiP just trying to see why you werent reading and responding to all the contents in posts. the reason my english isnt perfect is that contrary to what i insinuated english isnt my native language.
what facts? do you even know what you and i are discussing? im claiming you are jumping to conclusions and then presenting stuff like facts.
my claim is that we cant know for sure that there was a real fight between shanks and WB or just that one clash of swords.
perhaps the reason why shanks attacked the man with his sword instead of any other way of attack was because drawing his sword gives time to WB to reach for his own weapon AND tell him that shanks isnt really trying to fight him seriously. we cant know that since we did not see the conclusion of the fight.
the chances are miniscule but there is still a possibility that shanks is not considered a "swordsman" by Oda.
but since you will only respon to the convenient parts of this post everything is going to go round and round again like a carneval attraction.
have fun im bailing.
since when?
the 3 powers are already stated clearly, WG/marines, Shichibukai, Yonkou
all 3 are in perfect balance and if one side should fall, the balance will be toppled.not to mention their actual "stacked" power,
-WG/marines work together, of course, under the name of the marines
-shichibukai work together (though hesitantly) under the command and name of the world government
-the yonkou aren't even allowed to meet, and are constantly cautious of each other's teams. yet they still balance out.that says something about the yonkou's strength. even with their current attitude of 'everyone pointing a gun at shanks until he says i come in peace', they still equal in poewr to the WG/marines, and to the shichibukai.since when has it ever been stated shichibukai are equal to yonkou in strength? all i remember is that for shanks to go 'let's go see whitebeard', then going through the whole fleet of marines the WG sends, lugging a bottle of wine, it must have required pretty impressive powers on his part.
you just view them all as 'high powers', and deem them equal. point is, at their level, there are probably differences in power that differentiates the like-rulers of the new world and the ones who had to sign treaties with the government to stop being hunted.
Originally Posted by oceanizer
_Quote:
Originally Posted by Grand Times
四皇を止める力として、世界政府は海軍と王下七武海を従える。
The World Government has Marine and Shichibukai as forces to stop the Yonkou.海軍 - 海上の治安を守る、世界政府機関のひとつ。敵は同じだが、王下七武海とは相容れない。
Marine - One of the World Government's organization that protects safety on the sea. Even though they have same enemy, they are not in friendly term with Shichibukai. (They don't work together.)王下七武海 - 利益の一部を上納することで、世界政府から略奪を許されている。海賊への抑止力という意味もあ り、その実力 も折り紙つきだ。
Shichibukai - By paying part of the profit, they are permitted to plunder by the World Government. This works as a restraint against the other pirates, and their ability is unquestioned.四皇 - "偉大なる航路"後半の海にて、皇帝のごとき力を誇る海賊。頭は4人だが、その戦力は他の世界的勢 力と並ぶ 。
Yonkou - Pirates that shows emperor-like power in the later half of the "Grandline." Even though there are only four of them, their power equals to the other world forces._
Marine = Shichibukai = Yonkou.
That is why there is a BALANCE in the OP World, Three powers!!!!
You know, if the Shichibukai are equal to the other two powers, why is there such a gap of power in their group?
Although we haven't seen two Yonkou and two Admirals, the other two forces are hardly pushovers. No-name guys of Captain level were overrunning the Strawhats on the Bridge of Hesitation, so you can imagine what people like Doberman and the other VA's could have dished out. Hell, Saul and Garp are both ridiculously strong, as is Kuzan. So the MHQ's higher ups could have easily mopped the floor with people like Crocodile and Bartholomew Bear. Shanks and Whitebeard would have obliterated them as well.
Either Mihawk and the last unnamed Shichibukai makes up for the obvious power gap in the Shichibukai, or something else is amiss here. Crocodile was by no means a pushoever compared to your average pirate, but I doubt the marines or the WG would need to send someone like Lucci to defeat him, either.
my claim is that we cant know for sure that there was a real fight between shanks and WB or just that one clash of swords.
perhaps the reason why shanks attacked the man with his sword instead of any other way of attack was because drawing his sword gives time to WB to reach for his own weapon AND tell him that shanks isnt really trying to fight him seriously. we cant know that since we did not see the conclusion of the fight.
Commenting on "Shanks isn't a swordsman to Oda" when Oda himself said he is and moving waaaay past it to avoid the "Shanks is a swordsman" argument…
... I half agree here. I don't think it was a fight since if it was, there would be war and Shanks' crew commented on how Shanks promised no war. Now lets look at the angle of the clash here folks...
http://groups.msn.com/onepiecemangav-2/chapter434hq.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=9751
Shanks made the first move and WB blocked it - AND HE SWUNG INTO SHANKS' SWORD (notice the angle of of the spear thingy before and after the clash). WB put a LOT of force behind that block. Maybe not all his force, but its enough to say fairly Shanks and WB are definately testing strengths here, possibly Shanks is showing WB he can stand up to him (remember WB considered Shanks nothing more then a snot-nose kid until this point anyway). I definately think Shanks is being very serious…
... But reguardless, it just a cause of "actions speak louder then words". Someone just got tired of talking here. That the storyline establishes. And reguardless of whether Shanks is stronger or not then WB, Garp established he is on WBs level. There isn't much difference between the two in other words.
Shanks and Whitebeard weren't trying to kill each other.
This thread has gone waaaaay off-topic. @_@
Just 2 cents to add, but Mihawk may be a better swordman than Shanks, but it doesn t mean Shanks isn't stronger than Mihawk , he has his crew, and even if a lot would die, they could manage to defeat mihawk !!
Don t argue that it is an one on one, the crew is as important as power :o
The gap between Whitebeard and people like shanks has to be big enough so that there is a clear winner but small enough that Whitebeard doesn't mop the floor with him.
not exactly,i think the power gap is smaller,WB admitted that he got scarred by someone shanks knew so it was either roger (that i kinda doubt it since if he was,WB would not have any reason to leave his name in mystery) or mihawk cuz these 2 are the people shanks is strongly connected to
so i think mihawk gave him the scar which means even though he is the strongest he has some souvenirs from battles
the yonkou are on WB's level,they might all be weaker but that doesn't change the fact that WB vs shanks could even last days until WB came out as the winner and he would be heavily wounded for sure and he might have gotten a second scar too after the fight
WB is in the same manga with the SH so i can't see why his fights would have a differance from all the others,yes he is the strongest,yes he can't lose on a 1 on 1 but oda has shown us the way he draws fights and WB vs someone in his level would be like luffy vs someone in his level,they will both be in bloods and exhausted but one will have the upper hand in almost all the fight
the only differance from the SH's battles will be that WB vs someone in his level would make the sky,the sea and the islands near by a mess!!!!
Whoa wasn't this a thread on the shichibukai not getting One Piece? How did it evolve to a Shanks/WB thing?
Anyway, i think that neither men have used their full strength in that clash. I mean, yes they surely used a lot of it, but the clash seems to be one of 2 men debating and disagreeing. You can get to a point of using violence to try to settle things, but the situation is really quite different from a life-and-death full-power-all-the-way kind of fight (like the one between Luffy and Lucci). The outcome is anyone's guess, though it'll likely end in WB's win, but i highly doubt either of the 2 would be left hanging on the string of their life.
Anyway, fixius, WB's and Shanks' serious fight certainly will, i mean, look at Luffy and Lucci already. They wrecked an entire building plus an entire battlecruiser.
Shanks and Whitebeard weren't trying to kill each other.
This thread has gone waaaaay off-topic. @_@
The topic being stupid, I think its alright.
What do you people want to hear?
Shanks is the strongest? Whitebeard was serious?
Well I can't be bothered anymore, if we're going to start making up ridiculous crap. Then I'm going to add some too, I reckon Marco will own everyone.
There is no proof that he can't win, the only proof would be Whitebeard being the strongest man in the world. But since people most ignore that, I've decide I'll ignore it too.
The topic being stupid, I think its alright.
QFT!
What do you people want to hear?
Shanks is the strongest? Whitebeard was serious?
Well I can't be bothered anymore, if we're going to start making up ridiculous crap. Then I'm going to add some too, I reckon Marco will own everyone.
There is no proof that he can't win, the only proof would be Whitebeard being the strongest man in the world. But since people most ignore that, I've decide I'll ignore it too.
LMAO marco is da man!!!!!!! but not until sogeking meets him!!!!
Whoa wasn't this a thread on the shichibukai not getting One Piece? How did it evolve to a Shanks/WB thing?
My fault!
16 bottles of rum on the wall, take one down pass it around….
@Georgey:
OT is a complex-compound question with a hidden desired conclusion from the OP. Let me illustrate in a simple manner how this logical fallacy scheme is intended to work:
Shichibukai = strong.
Strong = can get one piece.
Shichibukai = cannot get one piece.
therefore,
Shichibukai = not strong.
right.So i guess mihawk is the worlds greatset swordsman because he's not strong?
I don't really think that they are that strong, not so strong so they can find it.
Maybe Raftel has an invisible force field or whatever, I do wonder how Oda will pull this of. He has to have a good explanation how Whitebeard wasn't able to reach Raftel for the last 20 or so years, yet, Luffy will aparently reach it in a few months.
Lol well if you think about it, it's been 10 years since he tried, and he hasn't gotten it yet.
In One Piece terms, yeah actually i too was thinking it'd be a bit far-fetched if Luffy would get One Piece within the relatively short period he spends in the GrandLine. Plus he's only seventeen.
A timeskip might solve that, but I hope Oda doesn't pull one out like Kishimoto did for Naruto.
Oda won't pull a Kishimoto, but he might pull a cliffhanger ending…...
with the Marines, the shichibukai and the yonkou and the mugiwaras locked in a battle that we will never see the end.....of it....
That is why there is a BALANCE in the OP World, Three powers!!!!
that is why they need 7 men to balance 4 men to balance an entire organisation!
do your math.
the 7 men are more or less co-operative with one another according to the government's wishes. they will cooperate well and stack their powers well
the organisation works very well together. their powers stack well and they support each other well (averagely good natured marines i'm referring to here, not anomalies like morgan)
the 4 men spend as much time biting each other as they spend fighting everything else. they will be quite distrustful of each other in battle, arrogant and refuse to work together, not until they're forced to anyway.
and yet, these 4 men together still balance the 7 men together and the whole organisation in an equal tripod.
what do u think?
@Fire Fist:
You know, if the Shichibukai are equal to the other two powers, why is there such a gap of power in their group?.
When has there ever been a gap of power in the Shichibukai?
that is why they need 7 men to balance 4 men to balance an entire organisation!
Prove to me that four Shichibukai can't EQUAL four of the Emperors?
When has there ever been a gap of power in the Shichibukai?
Look at croc. Then look at Mihawk.
Prove to me that four Shichibukai can't EQUAL four of the Emperors?
You would be absolutley right, if three of the schichbukai didn't exist.
Look at croc. Then look at Mihawk.
You haven't even seen Mihawk in action, you can't say he could beat ANY Logia, let alone Crocodile.
> You would be absolutley right, if three of the schichbukai didn't exist.
Still don't change the fact that ONE of the Shichibukai are on the same level as the Emperors, and add Blackbeard (soon to be).
Still don't change the fact that ONE of the Shichibukai are on the same level as the Emperors, and add Blackbeard (soon to be).
If you take 4 Shichibukai at random and let them fight against the yonkou, there is 0 % of chance that the Shichibukai will win. Otherwise, the powers would not be equal since the Shichibukai would be the strongest force.
If you take 4 Shichibukai at random and let them fight against the yonkou, there is 0 % of chance that the Shichibukai will win. Otherwise, the powers would not be equal since the Shichibukai would be the strongest force.
Really? You must have already seen ALL the Shichibukai's abilities to come up with that conclusion. To bad we haven't.