Originally posted by Ubiq+May 21 2005, 02:02 PM–>QUOTE(Ubiq @ May 21 2005, 02:02 PM)
Chapter 367 "SogeKing" Discussion
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_Originally posted by RedShanks+May 21 2005, 03:56 AM–>QUOTE(RedShanks @ May 21 2005, 03:56 AM)Showers, drinks etc. are most likely freshwater which is not a problem for anybody but Sir Crocodile. I thought DF users should be affected by seawater, and it annoys me that Luffy is able use his abilities.
[snapback]52786[/snapback]@May 21 2005, 07:32 AM
I too think that it is just sea water that affects the DF users because otherwise Smoker wouldn´t have been able to use his powers in Loguetown.
[snapback]52823[/snapback]__It's being submerged that's the problem. It wasn't a goof on Oda's part that Smoker could use his powers in the rain or anything. It's nearly impossible to be a pirate and not get soaked at one point, which is nothing for most DF users, who aren't weak to water itself, like Croc. And the fact that Luffy just blasted through sea water shows it. It's like sand for humans; spraying sand may only burn your eyes, but having a hand in sand with stop your hand's movement.
Being submerged in any water gets to them. In Alabasta, Smoker and Luffy had to be saved, even though the place was flooding with what I assume was fresh water._
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Good point Buccaneer. Never thought about that possibility. It really makes sense. Never thought about it before you´ve mentioned it. Luffy indeed must have gotten very wet on Going Merry especially when he was sitting on Merry´s head. Again I´m a little bit smarter then before. :D
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Originally posted by oceanizer+May 21 2005, 02:15 AM–>QUOTE(oceanizer @ May 21 2005, 02:15 AM)
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Originally posted by ooshi78+May 21 2005, 07:32 AM–>QUOTE(ooshi78 @ May 21 2005, 07:32 AM) _> Originally posted by oceanizer@May 21 2005, 02:15 AM
I thought the Rocket Man gets faster constantly …
[snapback]52786[/snapback]
No, Kokoro said RM is at its maximum speed in this chapter…
[snapback]52790[/snapback]did she?? she said "船の限界速度を超えてるâ€? which means "beyond the ship's limit" she never said it's at maximum… i was assuming that it was still accelerating and that's why it's a "runaway umiressha"...
ooshi78
[snapback]52869[/snapback]
i would assume "beyond the ship's limit" means that the ship is operating (or running) faster than the "safe" maximum speed. not that one piece follows physics, but if the RM is continually accelerating, it would need increasing amounts of energy to keep up the acceleration. also, generally, "runaway <vehicle>" means that the vehicle is uncontrollable. e.g. if the brakes on a car aren't working, it would be deemed runaway b/c there's no way to control the speed. i believe this is the use of "runaway" in the case of the RM. this is at least my thoughts on it.</vehicle>_ -
I'm just curious, "Runaway umiressha" means "Runaway sea train" in english right? Or does it not really have a proper english translation? I always assumed thats what it meant, since runaway train is, or at least was a very common term for trains whose breaks or engines malfunction or go out of control in general.
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Umi = Sea. Ressha = Train. :P
In fact, it sort of bugs me when people randomly call it ''Umi Ressha'' when there's such a literal translation available…
But to each his own.
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I knew that, and it put a little doubt in me. Usually people who speak Japanese still use umi ressha, it seems.
**In fact, it sort of bugs me when people randomly call it ''Umi Ressha'' when there's such a literal translation available…
But to each his own.**
Kinda how I feel about "mugiwara kaizoku" or "kaizokudan."
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Originally posted by freedom@May 21 2005, 08:00 AM
i would assume "beyond the ship's limit" means that the ship is operating (or running) faster than the "safe" maximum speed. not that one piece follows physics, but if the RM is continually accelerating, it would need increasing amounts of energy to keep up the acceleration. also, generally, "runaway <vehicle>" means that the vehicle is uncontrollable. e.g. if the brakes on a car aren't working, it would be deemed runaway b/c there's no way to control the speed. i believe this is the use of "runaway" in the case of the RM. this is at least my thoughts on it.
[snapback]52887[/snapback]</vehicle>"bousou" = running wildly/reckless
i get the image of a runaway train going downhill and speeding up till it crashes. it's like being on a train without brakes going downhill, you know that it's gonna crash after a certain speed but it will keep speeding up. i could have translated it into "wild train" or "reckless train" but i think "runaway (sea) train" would put a better image into peoples minds. btw, the reason why i left "umiressha" as that was because it was in quotations a lot. there's other words like "nakama" that doesn't have a real english translation. maybe something like "mate" that aussies use or something… it won't hurt you guys to learn a little japanese...
ooshi78
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btw, "mugiwara kaizoku" literally translated means "wheat straw pirate" it's cleaner to change it into "straw hat pirates" or to leave it as is... -
Huh. I figured "mugi" was hat.
I don't mind people using Mugiwara kaizokudan or Umi Ressha, but I don't know why they do…
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"Boshi" is "hat."
I guess calling them Mugiwara Pirates is alright, since in that one recent color page in English it said "Mugiwara Pirates in Water 7." But yeah, I get irked by the random use of Japanese words too (kind of like when fanboys/fangirls use "BAKA" and "KAWAII").
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Originally posted by Cap'n Carter@May 21 2005, 04:09 PM
**"Boshi" is "hat."I guess calling them Mugiwara Pirates is alright, since in that one recent color page in English it said "Mugiwara Pirates in Water 7." But yeah, I get irked by the random use of Japanese words too (kind of like when fanboys/fangirls use "BAKA" and "KAWAII").
[snapback]53289[/snapback]**why would the original japanese be random??? it's the english that's "random" on a manga…
ooshi78
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Uh, huh?
He was talking about people randomly using Japanese words in English sentences…
Which, by the way, I totally concur with. Even when it comes to ''nakama''. You could pull up all kinds of reasoning for that, but I still cringe when I see people using it, while they could just as well say ''friend'' or ''companion'' or whatever's best suited to the occasion.
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Originally posted by Mog@May 21 2005, 04:17 PM
**Uh, huh?He was talking about people randomly using Japanese words in English sentences…
Which, by the way, I totally concur with. Even when it comes to ''nakama''. You could pull up all kinds of reasoning for that, but I still cringe when I see people using it, while they could just as well say ''friend'' or ''companion'' or whatever's best suited to the occasion.
[snapback]53295[/snapback]**nakama means more than friend or companion or comrade or anything… plus you can't change the word you use to translate something as important as nakama everytime. it's a key part of this manga and obviously it means more to luffy+crew than just "freind". sometimes it's a limitation of the language not the translator.
ooshi78
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Which, by the way, I totally concur with. Even when it comes to ''nakama''. You could pull up all kinds of reasoning for that, but I still cringe when I see people using it, while they could just as well say ''friend'' or ''companion'' or whatever's best suited to the occasion.
Yeah, I agree with that, too.
I also thought it was kind of retarded when KF said they weren't going to translate "tangerine" but it looks like they did so anyway.
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that's like telling someone with a larger vocabulary than you to only use the words you know…
ooshi78
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Originally posted by Cap'n Carter@May 21 2005, 06:09 PM
I guess calling them Mugiwara Pirates is alright, since in that one recent color page in English it said "Mugiwara Pirates in Water 7." But yeah, I get irked by the random use of Japanese words too (kind of like when fanboys/fangirls use "BAKA" and "KAWAII").
[snapback]53289[/snapback]Agreed. I feel an urge to kill whenever I hear the retarded fangirl in my class call her friend a "chibi baka," and it's not much better when, for instance, a scanlator for Slam Dunk decided to leave "tensai" untranslated. It just doesn't look good…
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Originally posted by ooshi78@May 21 2005, 06:42 PM
**that's like telling someone with a larger vocabulary than you to only use the words you know…ooshi78
[snapback]53320[/snapback]**THAT I agree with, thank you, ooshi, you're an island of reason in a sea of bitter.
Who CARES if people are trying to use japanese words interspersed in their english? What difference does it make, it's not hurting anyone. The Japanese intersperse english in their language, I don't see a problem with english speakers doing the same with japanese.
For the record, I sometimes say "hai" for yes, often without thinking. I also use "Nani" and "sou ka". Uh oh, I guess that makes me a gasp fangirl!!1!111!
Oh noes!~
Sheesh, people… it's not a big deal. If you don't wanna hear the language spoken by "anime fangirls/boys", that's on you, not them.
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Originally posted by ooshi78@May 21 2005, 06:42 PM
**that's like telling someone with a larger vocabulary than you to only use the words you know…ooshi78
[snapback]53320[/snapback]**No, it's like telling your friends to quit using annoying catchphrases all the time. I can understand if you're a native Japanese speaker and it sounds better to you, but otherwise it just irks me.
Scanslations are a different matter, but I remember reading Bleach and getting completely lost because the translator chose not to translate several Key phrases. So it'd be like "We must go to the Kytabaigfeiks to retrieve the e4ktkj3ck so I can use the eryt894vhri and beat whatshisface." I can understand if you leave attack names in Japanese as long as you USE A DAMN ASTERISK OR SOMETHING TO TELL WHAT IT MEANS.
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Listen, Konis… Half of the people who randomly throw in Japanese words in their English sentences don't even speak Japanese to begin with. They just do it because they think it ''looks cool''. Or worse, they're trying to impress people.
No offense, but yeah, that's irritates the hell out of me. You're typing in English. Stick with it. If you were Japanese, or spoke Japanese to begin with, I could mildly understand it. But even then, stick to a language. Speak Japanese when speaking Japanese, speak English when speaking English. Intertwining the two for no reason whatsoever is like screaming ''Look at me! I speak two languages! Look at me and how awesome I am!!'' into somebody's face.
Hell, I'd be far less irritated if the two languages were mixed in actual whole sentences. But no, people just take random words and throw them into English sentences.
Here, let me demonstrate… I'm Dutch, and in this following sentence I will randomly replace English words with their Dutch translations:
''Hello, my name is Mog! I very much like schattige and pluizige animals that wiggle their staarten because it's incredibly gaaf!''
.... To me, as a Dutch person, that looks absolutely retarded. And considering I also speak Japanese, such sentences have the exact same effect on me.
It bugs me. Like I said, though, don't take that personally. It just bugs me. Simple as that.
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@Cap'n:
I can understand if you leave attack names in Japanese as long as you USE A DAMN ASTERISK OR SOMETHING TO TELL WHAT IT MEANS.
[snapback]53394[/snapback]don't get mad at me just cause you don't understand what i do… if you don't understand, why don't you learn the language instead of relying on someone else. and it's not like using catch phrases, it's using japanese WORDS. you know the same WORDS that english speaking people use... the title of the last chapter was "sogeking" which used a very clever play on words to include sogeki and king but if it's translated into sniper king, you lose half of oda's creativity. which do you prefer? the title of the chapter before "sortie" isn't a word we really use in english either... should i have found a more commonly used word rather than some "catch phrase"? sometimes translators leave words in because they think it's worth it for you to learn the word to better understand the context/creativity of the artist (sometimes it's cause the translator is limited in english).
ooshi78
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mog,
that's how the japanese do it. they throw in english words when there's no japanese equivalent. if the translator has a true understanding of japanese then it goes both ways, imo. -
There's always a way to translate something into English. It's a matter of understanding the English language and being creative enough with your phrasing. When a translator just decides to ditch it and leave the Japanese words as is, they might as well not translate the whole thing in the first place.
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I know using the term "catch phrase" would offend Japanese speakers, but i was referring to people like Mog described, people that don't even know the language and are trying be "cool" by emulating a culture they don't even understand. When they use the Japanese words in that way, that's when I would call it a "catch phrase."
And leaving in the word is fine as long as they explain what it means. Like I love the pun "Sogeking," and Bobobo is a series full of Japanese puns, which I think are pretty amusing when they're explained. Like in Stephen's translation, if there's a joke that he can't translate into an Englush equivalent he'll put in a note explaining the whole thing.
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_Originally posted by Mog+May 21 2005, 07:49 PM–>QUOTE(Mog @ May 21 2005, 07:49 PM)There's always a way to translate something into English. It's a matter of understanding the English language and being creative enough with your phrasing. When a translator just decides to ditch it and leave the Japanese words as is, they might as well not translate the whole thing in the first place.
[snapback]53417[/snapback]in our "might makes right" american point of view of the world we impose our words and phrases into other languages but when it's the other way around it's unaccepatable. would you have translated "sogeking" into "sniper king" and left out the creative part of the name? even in the bible (the most published book in the world) there are hundreds of footnotes on translation because there is no exact meaning.
ooshi78
@May 21 2005, 07:49 PM
**I know using the term "catch phrase" would offend Japanese speakers, but i was referring to people like Mog described, people that don't even know the language and are trying be "cool" by emulating a culture they don't even understand. When they use the Japanese words in that way, that's when I would call it a "catch phrase."And leaving in the word is fine as long as they explain what it means. Like I love the pun "Sogeking," and Bobobo is a series full of Japanese puns, which I think are pretty amusing when they're explained. Like in Stephen's translation, if there's a joke that he can't translate into an Englush equivalent he'll put in a note explaining the whole thing.
[snapback]53419[/snapback]**__people use english words that they don't have a full understanding of all the time. that doesn't mean they can't use it. part of understanding a language/culture is to try to use their words. if you were taking a foreign language class and the teacher told you to stop using words cause you didn't have a understanding of it, how far would you get? if people want to use foreign languages because they're interested in the language/culture (they think it's cool) and they want to try to learn some of the words then it's perfectly fine with me.
ooshi78 (part2)_
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I'm perfectly okay with people wanting to use foreign languages and wanting to learn some of its words.
But you can't tell me calling people ''baka'' instead of ''idiot'' while speaking English is in the slightest supposed to be educational.
And even if you're interested in a language, randomly infusing your speech with random words from said language only confuses the hell out of people and annoys others.
Besides that, there's a fundamental difference between being interested in a language or culture, and thinking it's cool to use foreign words for no reason.
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Originally posted by Mog@May 21 2005, 08:16 PM
**And even if you're interested in a language, randomly infusing your speech with random words from said language only confuses the hell out of people and annoys others.Besides that, there's a fundamental difference between being interested in a language or culture, and thinking it's cool to use foreign words for no reason.
[snapback]53430[/snapback]**i think including words from other languages is like using words (in english) that you don't know. the confusion/annoyance is because of the language limitation of the person on the receiving end. i'm not sure there's a fundamental difference either. i believe that people think foreign words are cool because they are interested in the language/culture.
ooshi78
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I once actually met someone in a chatroom who constantly used ''baka'' and ''kawaii'' in his talking. I asked him why. He replied he thought it looked cool. I asked him what language it was.
''Uhm… Chinese?''
So yeah, I'd say there's a difference. And it has very little to do with language limitations. I speak Japanese myself, and heck.... Just look at my earlier example of using Dutch.
English is vitally different because virtually anyone can speak a little of it, or at least understand what they're saying. Mostly when people using a different language use an English word from time to time, it's simply a phrase that, through pop-culture, has simply been assimilated in said language.
For instance, ''cool'' is a very normal word in Dutch. Everyone knows what it means.... Even if they don't know this language called ''English'' exists.
And really... I'm getting tired of this discussion. I'm just re-using points I made earlier by now. Just try to accept it bugs me and I'll accept it doesn't bug you.
Thank you.
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Originally posted by Mog@May 21 2005, 08:29 PM
Mostly when people using a different language use an English word from time to time, it's simply a phrase that, through pop-culture, has simply been assimilated in said language.
[snapback]53441[/snapback]manga=pop-culture… or is there no vise versa in your "american centered" way of thinking.
ooshi78
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Originally posted by Mog@May 21 2005, 09:36 PM
No offense, but yeah, that's irritates the hell out of me. You're typing in English. Stick with it. If you were Japanese, or spoke Japanese to begin with, I could mildly understand it. But even then, stick to a language. Speak Japanese when speaking Japanese, speak English when speaking English. Intertwining the two for no reason whatsoever is like screaming ''Look at me! I speak two languages! Look at me and how awesome I am!!'' into somebody's face.
[snapback]53401[/snapback]Well, with that rational, does that mean you get angry when you hear Japanese people using english in their sentences? I mean, it's essentially the same thing. There are japanese versions of english words that HAVE japanese equivelents. If a japanese person says "Sankyuu" or "sekushii" does that make your skin crawl?
They're fairly harmless words. Sometimes using words from another language helps you a little in learning it. I've learned a lot of my japanese pronounciation from anime, and some of my vocabulary… I'm not ashamed to admit it.... but so what? If I wanna use japanese words, what difference does it make? Generally, I only use them around people who'd know what they mean anyhow.. well, except hai >.> I'm not screaming "Hi, I know two languages!" I'm saying "I know a few words of japanese, and since I know you also know 'em, I'll use some of them because I like how they sound."
Hell, English has TONS of stolen words.... I use french, italian, spanish, latin, and who knows what else words all day... oh, but I guess it's okay, since my language took 'em. Who's to say English couldn't take nakama? As a rule, English is the ferret of languages... we see something shiney and we steal it.
"The problem with defending the purity of the English language is that English is about as pure as a cribhouse whore. We don't just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary." - James D. Nicoll
What of it?
Oh, and, no offense taken. =)
PS - You're more than welcome to your opinion… maybe you just need to learn to phrase your disdain for people who like using random japanese words more gently. shrug
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Originally posted by Konis@May 21 2005, 08:38 PM
English is about as pure as a cribhouse whore.
[snapback]53448[/snapback]gotta love those cribhouse whores (and oda)!!! cheering
ooshi78
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there's other words like "nakama" that doesn't have a real english translation. maybe something like "mate" that aussies use or something…
Funny you should use that example, since "mate" is a VERY popular term amongst pirates and sailors, and was historically used by pirates in much that same context you make out nakama to mean. (nakama is more than friend, its like best friend or family or what have you) The term mate has become tradition, as you'll often hear it in english sailing titles such as first mate, second mate, carpenter's mate, ect.. The original term was used in much the same manner (even amongst thieving pirates. :P) The Umi Ressha thing I just wasn't sure about, I didn't know if it had some deep meaning or anything so I was just trying to find out. I always just sorta changed it to sea train in my head.
No offense to anyone, but I suppose I'll toss in my half cent…The broken scanlation issue isn't so much about "defending the purity of english," but unless you plan on callin up Websters and telling them to add baka, kawaii, and nakama to the dictionary they are not recognized english words. Words that were integrated into mainstream english from other languages are quite a different matter, having to do with population diversity and American cultural history. Even a "cribhouse whore" has her boundaries like gender, birthplace, and appearance. Tossing random japanese into predominantly english sentences is much akin to giving the ole cribhouse whore plastic surgery. =P The exception of course is attack and technique names, character names, et cetera.
I think a lot of times the good people translating tend to overlook (or just not really mind) the fact that the majority of their following has very little to no real background in Japanese, so if a word simply sounds better to them in japanese they simply leave it, mainly because of personal preference. Which can seem a little bumpy for some of us, but I never bother complaining about it. Its not impossible to read between the lines and insert whatever meaning you best equate to the situation or context. Like normally when I see nakama, I just scan over it again and replace it with comrade, mate, or crew. It may seem "weak" to those of you with firmer backgrounds in the japanese language, but for most of us it just clicks better.
It's the same with most other terms left in Japanese. We don't suddenly correlate some extraordinarily powerful meaning to "nakama" just because someone says so. Language barriers don't bend quite that easily. Like if I told you lagervuba means amazing peach pie. Not just peach pie but truly extraordinary peach pie. If I replaced peach pie with that in a sentence, most people will still lean toward the term they are familiar with, because it flows better in their mind.
Certain english words also tend to rely tremendously on context, often more than the term itself. At least thats how we learn to recognize things in our minds, like you can casually call someone a friend, or you can say it from the heart, that this person is my friend. It's possible to apply a deeper or more powerful meaning, given the importance of what you're trying to express. On the other hand the word "damn" can mean to condemn to everlasting punishment, associated with death, Hell or the netherworld….and yet I casually say "damn you" to friends and family all the time and no one thinks twice. :P so english words that seem "weak" can also be given strong meanings, and some strong words can be used casually or sarcastically. The same word can have a different meaning in various situations. Especially words like friend and comrade, and even family in some situations.
But of course its not up to us, no need to remind us with a crowbar we get it, you provide service to fans purely out of the goodness of your heart and we do appreciated it...but it's a shame if we mere fans of the work are seen as too low on the anime/manga foodchain to even have differences of opinion :P Some people seem to really take offense at having to suffer the rhetoric of "common leechers" :mellow:
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There's a line between using "nakama" and "omg baka kitsune dobe!!!1 still v. KAWAI and SUgoI, ne?" (<–totally modeled after Naruto badfic). Also, if any of my friends came up to me and started speaking like in the latter example, I would punch him in the neck. (Uh...SHONEN MADE ME VIOLENT. TOTALLY.)
Sogeking=omg yes.
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Guys, don´t act like a BAKA, let´s all be NAKAMA now! :D
Sorry, could resist. But seriously I understand how many people feel about the usage of lots of japanese terms among fan discussions. Mostly they are completely useless and of no other nature but to make one self interesting to others. Which I find kind of annoying. Don´t need to explain why because almost everything has been mentioned already.
However I do think that there´s no problem with using the term nakama among fan discussions. If you constantly hear Luffy saying "…you are my nakama!" then I think it is fair for everyone of us to say that this or that character is Luffy´s nakama. It´s an exception since that´s the terms that´s been manifested (sp?) in our mind in OP context. So at least get over this term people.
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if you guys use japanese words, i can use german words.
the new chapter is really mördergeil because luffy and zoro show their kraft.
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Nope because it´s totally different situation. Neither K-F nor the scanlators use any german term (except for Gelände in episode 53) among their translation so neither german nor any other non-japanese language is justified here in that context.
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Originally posted by Ivotas@May 22 2005, 05:09 AM
Nope because it´s totally different situation. Neither K-F nor the scanlators use any german term (except for Gelände in episode 53) among their translation so neither german nor any other non-japanese language is justified here in that context.and what about klabautermann?its german, that makes two german terms, so i can use two german terms in this forum and these are mördergeil und kraft.
;)
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No you can´t. You can use Klabautermann and Gelände but Mördergeil and Kraft never appeared in the versions that use the same language as this board. In fact Mördergeil didn´t even appear neither in the german manga nor in the german anime so it has absolutely no right to be here because nobody would know what you are actually talking about.
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Originally posted by Ivotas+May 21 2005, 02:57 PM–>QUOTE(Ivotas @ May 21 2005, 02:57 PM)
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hey see the: ;)
because nobody would know what you are actually talking about.
you are nobody?
and thats no argument because if these guys use japanese i dont know what they are talking about.i got a warning because i used a diffrent language to much, so the mods should think about it and maybe get them a warning too. -
Originally posted by Günther@May 22 2005, 11:53 AM
**hey see the: ;)because nobody would know what you are actually talking about.
you are nobody?
and thats no argument because if these guys use japanese i dont know what they are talking about.i got a warning because i used a diffrent language to much, so the mods should think about it and maybe get them a warning too.
[snapback]53626[/snapback]**Yep, I´m Honkey D. Nobody! :P
I guess you havent seen neither the Kaizoku-Fansubs nor any of the good scanslations yet, right? Because in them all the japanese terms that are used are explained in the same scene/page. The word nakama even has a very long explenation before the beginning of episode 38.
So in fact what I say is an argument here. The most people here watch or read the OP versions with lots of explenations for japanese terms. Compared to your Mördergeil they definitely are justified here. The only thing that´s up for discussion is how much sense the usage of certain terms among fan discussion makes.
On a side note, you have been warned because your first posts here have been full of pointless crap in a language that almost nobody understood here. You very first post had absolutely nothing to do with One Piece. If you would have written the same stuff in english you would have received a warning too because the content would have still been the same. It is certainly not the same thing as using the term nakama or baka which have appeared dozen times in a One Piece media almost everyone where is familiar with.
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As far as the language dispute goes, I usually prefer the shortest, most direct version.
Aokiji over Blue Pheasant for instance, Sea Train over Umi Ressha (which has been rendered moot as far as I'm concerned since we now have two distinct locomotives). If it's the same amount of letters, like Mugiwara, I usually use the English version simply because it's easier to remember and is less likely to cause confusion for people whose experience is solely with English translations.
As far as English borrowing things goes, yeah, it's pretty much the linguistic form of the Borg, especially American English. On the other hand, most of those words describe concepts or things that were previously foreign to the English, especially words derived from indigenous tribes.
If it's a term or word that has a definitive English translation that is shorter and matches the mean of the original, then I think you should use the English phrase instead.
Using the standard example of fangirls use of kawaii rather than cute doesn't make sense, there's already a universally accepted English word precisely for that concept that is also shorter than the Japanese word.
Schradenfreude or esprit d'escalier, for instance, are different because those terms do not really have a English equivalent so they should be used because the only other way would be to write an entire phrase describing that emotion.
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there's other words like "nakama" that doesn't have a real english translation.
仲間 / ちゅうげん / なかま : n 1)samurai's attendant 2)footman n 3)company 4)fellow 5)colleague 6)associate 7)comrade 8)mate 9)group 10)circle of friends 11)partner P
It has plenty.
Hmmm, and although Japanese use a good deal of English at interesting moments such as a substitute for gitaigo, giongo etc. I would suggest that regardless of its origin, it is a part of their vocabulary, almost everyone has at least 6 years of compulsory English education and the people around them can understand what they're saying. The same is not true in the US.
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Never knew that. But it's true.
Hamtarogrrl69: omg u baka!1!
SomeGuyonAim1: What?
Hamtarogrrl69: i saw it in a anuhmayBut I can understand if it's used like "Si." You don't have to know Spanish to use that, but it's just a simple translation, not something you heard in a cartoon and are using to seem cool (or whatever they try to seem).
_Originally posted by Mog+May 21 2005, 09:36 PM–>QUOTE(Mog @ May 21 2005, 09:36 PM)''Hello, my name is Mog! I very much like schattige and pluizige animals that wiggle their staarten because it's incredibly gaaf!''
[snapback]53401[/snapback]That example was totally kawaii.
Originally posted by ooshi78@May 21 2005, 09:42 PM
don't get mad at me just cause you don't understand what i do… if you don't understand, why don't you learn the language instead of relying on someone else. and it's not like using catch phrases, it's using japanese WORDS.
[snapback]53409[/snapback]Wow, I think there was a gap in communicaton. I think most people are find with the way you and other bilingual people would
Originally posted by Mog@May 21 2005, 09:49 PM
There's always a way to translate something into English. It's a matter of understanding the English language and being creative enough with your phrasing. When a translator just decides to ditch it and leave the Japanese words as is, they might as well not translate the whole thing in the first place.
[snapback]53417[/snapback]KF made a note of how they'd be using "nakama." I didn't think much of it until I saw a scan that had Luffy say "Nami is my friend!" It just…..didn't work. It'll make sense if it's translated by whoever wants to translate it, but it just doesn't get the point across as well, imo._
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Oy vey. This conversation has gotten me all verklempt about nothing, you shmucks.
In terms of translation, though, I think its up to the editor to decide to use Japanese as liberal as they want to be.
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"Nami is my friend!"
I totally agree that, that doesn't work. Note that nowhere is 'friend' a definition of nakama.
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Originally posted by Ivotas@May 22 2005, 06:08 AM
im sure ive read far more translations and watch k-f subs then most of you guys.
i read the new chapters plus translation/scanlation for years now.my first posts werent pointless crap if you would have read them you would know that.ok my first post was offtopic from one piece but thats only one from i think over 50.
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Originally posted by Günther+May 22 2005, 02:50 PM–>QUOTE(Günther @ May 22 2005, 02:50 PM)
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Originally posted by omae no kaasan v.2@May 22 2005, 05:05 AM
**> there's other words like "nakama" that doesn't have a real english translation.仲間 / ちゅうげん / なかま : n 1)samurai's attendant 2)footman n 3)company 4)fellow 5)colleague 6)associate 7)comrade 8)mate 9)group 10)circle of friends 11)partner P
It has plenty.
Hmmm, and although Japanese use a good deal of English at interesting moments such as a substitute for gitaigo, giongo etc. I would suggest that regardless of its origin, it is a part of their vocabulary, almost everyone has at least 6 years of compulsory English education and the people around them can understand what they're saying. The same is not true in the US.
[snapback]53661[/snapback]**nami is my comrade!!
nami is my mate!!
nami is in my circle of friends!!
nami is my partner!!
mate might work, but the others are just bleh… i try to find a appropriate translation, meaning it has about the same strength in words... the way oda is using "nakama" has no appropriate translation.
ooshi78
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Originally posted by Ivotas@May 22 2005, 09:37 AM
**And sorry, I don´t want to offend you but some of your first posts were lacking some the proper social form. You changed that now, but at the begining it was a little bit different.Well, if you are familiar with them then you should actually be intelligent enough to understand the difference between the usage of japanese terms to german terms is. Nicht wahr? ;)**
what?proper social form?there was nothing to change, so i changed nothing. :mellow:
no there is no diffrence.the japanese terms are in the translation but that dont mean we must write every second sentence full with japanese terms on this forum.
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Originally posted by Günther@May 22 2005, 04:12 PM
what?proper social form?there was nothing to change, so i changed nothing. :mellow:Well that is what you think. Apparently you´ve started calling other´s "rassistisch" just because they asked you to use the english language here. That´s name calling, which IMO isn´t proper behaviour on a open forum.
no there is no diffrence.the japanese terms are in the translation but that dont mean we must write every second sentence full with japanese terms on this forum.
[snapback]53769[/snapback]Actually here´s nobody who writes full sentences in japanese. Everything we put up for discussion is why people have to be so anal use "mugiwara kaizoku" over "Strawhat Pirates" thats all. And as it was often established in this thread already the term nakama should be an exception because it the versions most of us are confronted here with favor this term too over "friend, companion etc."
I actually don´t know why we have this discussion. From your argumentation you seem intelligent enough to know this difference, but yet you insist on proving a point we both know is pointless. You´re confusing me.