fair enough comment i don't worry much about punctuation when i'm online but i guess i will make my posts clearer
but i was just saying the size of the weights Zoro uses can indicate that he would also be able to deal with luffy using gear 3 and that theres no mention of how much the gears increase luffy's power
What Manga are you reading? Luffy using Gear 3 on Zoro will make Luffy get cut? Hell a better tekkai than the one that REFLECTED Luffy's rifle back at him (but was that anime-only? doesn't matter since there was still tekkai blocking between Lucci and Luffy in the manga) have shown to fail against Gear 3rd (Lucci used ab etter tekkai against it right?). So fail, that it hurt his leg during the whole fight.
I say Gear 3 is PRETTY strong. Still not agreed? How about the Moria beat up? Moria had, what, 1000 shadows? BOOM JET GIGANT SHELL.
Cut himself. ROFL.
I'm in agreement with neo121… Luffy would probably get cut if he tried to use gear 3 on zoro.
and i dont get what betterbetternomi is trying to say no matter how many times i read his post.
I think that brook would make a better katana then Sogeking ever did
Ok I'll say it clearly.
First I said the tekkai Lucci used against Luffy's Gear 3rd was better than his regular tekkai, if I remember correctly.
Then , I claim that by the anime, Lucci's regular tekkai has REFLECTED Luffy's riflem while his stronger tekkai couldn't stand Gear 3. Then I said even if it wasn't reflected in the manga, we have seen in the manga Lucci's Tekkai and know it's strong. Now ofcourse Luffy will be cut but I think Zoro will be a little more hurt. Ok he'll be REALLY hurt.
I also mentioned Luffy's beating on Moria with 1000 shadows while we saw the pwoer of 100. If 100 shadows in Luffy made such a great power that coudl stop odz, than 1000 shadows in Moria is simply.. amazingly powerful. One jet gigant shell took care of that creep, though.
Oh, found it:
Rifle reflected:
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/421/12/
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/421/13/
But I was wrong, He used same tekkai strength both times…
Anyway, something that could reflect Luffy's rifle has been nothing in face of Gear 3rd and couldn't even block damage that carried on later in Lucci's leg...
What I'm saying is Gear 3rd is freaking strong.
Huge Thanks to FrankyIsFeelingSupah for his help with everything
Zoro would use one of his numerous sword techniques to defend a gear 3 punch, luffy would get cut, thats all i'm saying about that. Rubber vs sword you do the math. I have no clue why you are exaggerating luffy's power. I see your points and don't dismiss them, but i stick with what i've said due to the evidence i've givin, show me more than just a deflected punch
and with moria the guy wasn't like luffy in fact he was worse. One punch did it because he was over filled with shadows in his weakened state. read that fight again he wasn't as strong as 1000 shadows cause he had poor control over all them in his body
I know he had poor control therefore couldn't use them to attack btu still he had the raw power of them.
And no, I'm zoro, if I throw a 5ton of rubber into zoro with immense power and speed, I don't think he could cut it and not get hurt although it is rubber.
Are we talking gear 3 and 2 at the same time? or where does the "immense speed" come from? Last time I checked Gear 3 was slower then base Luffy because he sacrificed speed for strenght.
if luffy would punch zoro with gear 3rd, zoro could do the same like he did with oz. he deflected oz's punch with sheer force.
Yeah I'm talking about both gears, that's correct.
Roronoakun, link please? If Zoro indeed deflected Oz's punch with sheer force he's stronger than I thought
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/474/04/
Zoro deflecting oz's punch, with prue power…
so i think you should retract some of the rubbish you were saying about Zoro fighting luffy with gear 3
and reread one piece
Rofl. Reread One Piece? xD
Anyway no I don't take back anything he did not DEFLECT Oz's punch he REDIRECTED it. Imagine a Jet Gigant shell… it's much faster than Oz, and is almost as powerful as Oz.
Jet Gigant Shell is also a finisher move. If they are both uninjured before Luffy uses that I would imagine it to put more strain on Luffy then it would hurt Zoro.
And in the future please make it clear that you mean both gears instead of just rambeling on about gear 3 and assume everyone understands you mean both of them.
PS: Define deflect. I thought that is the same thing as redirect?
BBnoMI is an idiot and hes the one who doesn't want to admit when hes wrong
Zoro still didn't get hurt, it's to the same effect.
Jet Gigant Shell is also a finisher move. If they are both uninjured before Luffy uses that I would imagine it to put more strain on Luffy then it would hurt Zoro.
No doubt there would be some strain on Luffy, but it would totally fuck up Zoro.
He could also use Gigant Bazooka, if he can hit it. When he uses Jet Gigant Shell he goes Gear 3rd while still in Gear 2nd, so he's still fast. But Im sure that Gear 3rd brings his speed down still, so he'd probably end up at base level.
http://viscaria3.blogspot.com/. Best thing since Phoenix Wright!!
No doubt there would be some strain on Luffy, but it would totally fuck up Zoro.
He could also use Gigant Bazooka, if he can hit it. When he uses Jet Gigant Shell he goes Gear 3rd while still in Gear 2nd, so he's still fast. But Im sure that Gear 3rd brings his speed down still, so he'd probably end up at base level.
Again Zoro wouldn't take the attack head on. Plus with his new sword, his attacks power are amplified, (read the page or two after the link i gave previously) 108 pound cannon on luffy would cause damage and he could use some of his attacks in a defensive way to protect himself. Oz too was surprised by the power, and oz was saying if he took that head on it would have caused major damage.
So luffy isn't all powerful vs Zoro, thats why i can argue to a degree that Zoro is close to luffy's power if not even
Ah well if you think I'm an idiot there's no point indebating then is it?
I'll only addy ou don't know me and I have no problem at all admitting when I'm wrong, Gorlom if you wanna keep this debate up the nsure you know how to debate, Neomaster I won't continue arguing with you.
Gorlom, I believe that It would hrut Zoro more than it hurts Luffy. And anyway, Won't Luffy in gear 2 (withotu gear 3) be way to ofast for zoro to avoid? I mean, we haven't seen Zoro see through soru did we? actually we haven't seen any SH except for Luffy (and Franky, maybe?) see through soru.. no?
Well then Luffy gear 2 would crash zoro, am I right?
This is all opinions. And i dont really have an opinion on Luffy Versus Zoro.
I just think that both gears at the same time is too taxing for Luffy to use in a fight and expect to win unless he uses it as a finisher.
ok sorry for being so rude just an earlier comment about me that you made got me wound up
and i think preety much franky up including sanji and Zoro can counter Soru users
Zoro fought kaku and i remember him blocking attacks and following movements Kaku made using Soru and i think Sanji did the same in his fight against wolf man
soru is what gives luffy his speed if im not mistaken rather than gear 2 itself or maybe a combo of both so i think Both sanji and Zoro could keep up with luffy at high speeds i believe
Could you provide links? :)
Apology accepted.
I remember mostly ryankukus and tekkai's from Zoro vs Kaku.. don't remember any soru.
He uses Soru here http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/401/06/
then reuses Soru again http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/401/08/
now in the second page zoro's view was blocked and yet he still reacted and defended against Kaku who was using Soru
This is why i don't think Luffy's speed is much of a factor in a fight with Zoro. Time after time Zoro's fought faster opponents then he is and has shown that he can get faster to deal with them.
Yup you're right.
Ok I'll just hang on the fact that "ZOMG LUFFY IS CAPTAIN!!11!ONE HE CAN'T LOST TO ZORO ZOMG"
I can see anything in a Luffy vs Zoro fight iwll be assuming, no?
Huge Thanks to FrankyIsFeelingSupah for his help with everything
well to me i just think the way that oda purposly made some parts where luffy jumps ahead then while allowing Zoro to keep closely behind is great. Normally it would be just a clear gap but i think that its good that their isn't. The end of the TB arc was a perfect example as to why hes done this and i think the sharing of luffy's pain is as symbolic as mi hawk giving Zoro the scar. I believe that In the new Word the opponents they will meet will be stronger than ever and they can't just really on one man to beat all the unbelivably strong. Thats why i maintain the closeness now in strength between Zoro and Luffy and sanji not lagging to far behind
Ok I'll just hang on the fact that "ZOMG LUFFY IS CAPTAIN!!11!ONE HE CAN'T LOST TO ZORO ZOMG"
I take it you're joking. However, just because he won't loose doesn't mean he would win. Btw, that is probably the silliest ways of proving Luffy > Zoro. It's just as stupid as saying "Zoro is first mate so Zoro > Sanji".
Rather live a coward than die a man.
Actually, he kinda has a point there. The Captain is supposed to be the strongest. That's what makes him the captain. He has to be the strongest so his crew can look up to him in their time of need. They rely on him and he has to be able to be strong enough to support all their expectations both physically AND emotionally.
Like Zoro said after Luffy's fight with Usopp. "If you falter, what will happen to us?" or something to that extent.
I just want to make clear im not saying Hes not the strongest and that Zoro is stronger
I'm saying that Zoro is quite close to Luffy if not equal and not a giant gap as many people seem to think
Zoro wouldn't be following luffy around if Luffy was weaker than him on will power. Considering how simular their goals are Pirate king and Strongest Swordsmen they shouldn't be too far off in power in the end and on their journeys too their goals but i except in the end Luffy would be the strongest the gap is what i'm debating and arguing about
I take it you're joking. However, just because he won't loose doesn't mean he would win. Btw, that is probably the silliest ways of proving Luffy > Zoro. It's just as stupid as saying "Zoro is first mate so Zoro > Sanji".
Yeah, BBNoMi, Im on your side and everything, but that is a poor excuse.
Luffy's crew is run far differently than most other pirate crew. Last time I checked, you cant get away with bashing your captain on the head repeatedly.
http://viscaria3.blogspot.com/. Best thing since Phoenix Wright!!
Is there even an argument for Zoro being stronger than Luffy?
Because really it makes no sense at all
some say because he could take his own plus luffs damage after TB.
even though resiliance =/= strenght, its only part of it.
but I say Boiga has the only view that "makes sense".
@Mr.:
Is there even an argument for Zoro being stronger than Luffy?
Did anyone post anything that might have sounded like "Zoro is stronger than Luffy"?
Nobody said that at all, and no ones arguing for that point people just not reading the argument in full. No one said Zoro was stronger than Luffy -__-
Rofl, I was joking about the "Luffy is captain" I thought it was obvious by the ZOMG and !!!11!!ONE I added.
I was just saying I have no more arguements and can't show any clear gap between Zoro and Luffy's power, therefore I accept Luffy is only abit stronger than zoro.
BTW I didn't even show my rankings ^^
Luffy
Zoro
Sanji
Franky
Brooke
Robin
Nami
Usopp
Chopper
their bounties are a fair ranking, except i think sanji and franky are better than robin. I hope robin will learn some of the rokushiki stuff. She'd be so ridiculously good if she did. maybe it'll happen by the end of the manga. Also chopper needs to step his game up. I'm surprised so many think usopp is the weakest. Did you see luffy vs. usopp? yeah, if usopp uses those dials and stuff, he will be a real threat to any enemy.
their bounties are a fair ranking, except i think sanji and franky are better than robin. I hope robin will learn some of the rokushiki stuff. She'd be so ridiculously good if she did. maybe it'll happen by the end of the manga. Also chopper needs to step his game up. I'm surprised so many think usopp is the weakest. Did you see luffy vs. usopp? yeah, if usopp uses those dials and stuff, he will be a real threat to any enemy.
Robin and Rokushiki??? NOOOO!!!
She would be broken as hell with this. Imagine Robin with Shigan??? CP9 members are some sort of martial arts figthers but Robin is more a grabbler.
And I don't wanna to see that the crew just imitating moves from CP9. Maybe Sanji and Rankyaku cuz it's just a bit strange that even the worst member could kick the air in half and Sanji not.
Robin and Rokushiki??? NOOOO!!!
She would be broken as hell with this. Imagine Robin with Shigan??? CP9 members are some sort of martial arts figthers but Robin is more a grabbler.And I don't wanna to see that the crew just imitating moves from CP9. Maybe Sanji and Rankyaku cuz it's just a bit strange that even the worst member could kick the air in half and Sanji not.
Yea sanji should learn that. But it seems to me that rokushiki is not a cp9 set of moves. It's something that a lot of good marines know. Of course they aren't as good as rob lucci or anything. It's just that it seems to be an obvious way to get stronger. It's not like robin would all of a sudden have shigan. She would train. I think nami, usopp, franky, and brooke will definitely not learn any of the rokushiki, but it's possible for the others. I especially think chopper should train to use them. He should learn all six of them in my opinion.
^^ To be honest I would rather no one from the crew learn rokushiki (besides Luffy's version of soru). If Chopper is to learn one technique used by CP9, I hope it's life return, though I probably won't hate rokougan (sp) too much.
I pray Chopper learns Rokougan, that was my favorite move from the CP9.
http://viscaria3.blogspot.com/. Best thing since Phoenix Wright!!
Yeah, but to get Rokougan you need to master the six forms fighting style anyway. Also, to be honest, out of all the characters who might assimilate some part of CP9's fighting style I think Chopper is the least likely because at the end of the day the little guy just doesn't like fighting.
Quite honestly, Robin > Everyone except Luffy.
Why? Dos fleur: Grab. No man can survive it! Except Luffy and his balls of rubber. :/
Im pretty sure Nami could survive it too.
http://viscaria3.blogspot.com/. Best thing since Phoenix Wright!!
Im pretty sure Nami could survive it too.
I disagree. Namizou would hurt as much as any of the other guys on the crew… Same goes for Mr 2 Bon Kurei.
Quite honestly, Robin > Everyone except Luffy.
Why? Dos fleur: Grab. No man can survive it! Except Luffy and his balls of rubber. :/
Well I still maintain that Franky has iron testicles (Robin grabbing his balls was a gag). Not to mention Brook has no balls (poor guy).
Rather live a coward than die a man.
Not to mention Brook has no balls (poor guy).
Didn't think of that… but it's likely she could thrash him anyway, since he has very little ability.
And Rokushiki Robin would be awsome! :D Cien fleur, shingan!
^^ Huh, Brook has little ability? Where did you get that idea from? The guy has 80 odd years of experience as a swordsman, caused a whole lot of troble on Thriller Barque the first time he was there plus look how quickly and easily he disposed of Taleran (sp) and the flying fish riders. I doubt that counts as little ability…
Luffy has to be stronger than Zoro because, well, he's the main character and wants to become the Pirate King, so naturally he has to be the strongest, even against swordsmen, to maintain that rank in the end. Zoro is the very first crewmate, so I would think that Oda would give more attention to his goal and character development than the development of other characters. Zoro and Luffy share a goal of obtaining the strongest positions for their respective goals; something that the other crew members don't share.
It's too early to see what Brook can actually do, but we do know that he is at least weaker than Zoro. Since there are so many characters in the crew now, I don't think we'll have 1V1 fights anymore for characters other than Luffy, Zoro, or Sanji, because it would just take too long. I would say that most of the emphasis on fights will be on Luffy and Zoro, less on Sanji, and even less on the other crew members.
If Robin was a male, then she would definitely be one of the strongest, but Robin lacks that kind of mentality and is more like the pacifistic knowledge-bearer of the crew, so I would place her in the same category as Chopper.
Franky would come in as the fourth strongest, and Nami and Usopp both use their smarts during battle because they're physically weak and people that we can most often relate to even if we don't want to admit it. I bet you a giant giraffe and a wolf, or a lady that can protrude sharp spikes from her body would make you shit bricks, too.
So my list goes:
Luffy > Zoro
Sanji
Franky
Usopp > Nami
Robin = Chopper
And Brook can either be above Franky or below, but it's too early to tell.
Zoro is just as strong if not stronger than Luffy in his Gear 1
Sanji
Franky
Brook
Robin
Chopper
Ussop
Nami
Luffy is luffy…Gears are his techniques just like how Zoro and Sanji have theres...he should be called Gear 1...hes Luffy. Thus if Gear 2 Luffy is better than Zoro (im just saying for arguement sakes...idk or care) then Luffy is stronger than Zoro...
Anyways i think...
Luffy = Zoro - Both equal, they just fight different types of opponents. The opponent may have upperhand on Luffy or Zoro if they swapped but thats just for plots sake, by Oda, is why its like that
Sanji
Brook
Franky
Robin
Usopp
Chopper
Nami
I don't think Sanji can break steel. He's not even meant to be an upper tier fighter, he's like the top of the middle tier and shares that position with Robin. Only the good for nothing except fighting characters like Zoro and Luffy have upper bounds of strength like that.
Sanji can dent iron, though.
@bunshindattebayo:
That image would be perfect for a spoiler leak thread.
He's not even meant to be an upper tier fighter, he's like the top of the middle tier and shares that position with Robin. Only the good for nothing except fighting characters like Zoro and Luffy have upper bounds of strength like that.
Just no, he's right along with Luffy and Zoro. That's blatantly obvious by all the match-ups we've seen through the series. To think otherwise is just…wrong.
Sanji can dent iron, though.
He broke iron in this latest chapter so…
On this whole steel breaking thing, I actually think Sanji's "big thing" concerning that would be leaving shoeprints in steel since that's what Zeff did when he was a pirate.
