Oda did state Zoro as the first mate in an interview…
Where? When? Isn't Zoro always refered to as the Strawhat's swordsman?
AoKiji being the strongest marine is common false interpretation. I don't know who, but someone in this forum explained it very clear.
[hide]Volume 32, Chapter 303
From stephen's scripts:
[Grand Line, Marine Headquarters]
Officers: …Vice Admiral!! He... he's not here!!
I'm not settling for that!!
Where the hell did he go?!
His bicycle is gone, so... probably to sea.
Tell the Gorousei at once!!!
Gorousei: ...him again?
Well, it's probably only reconnaissance.
Honestly, what does he consider his own position to be...?
He can't just act on the spot like that.
The Marine Headquarters' Strongest,
Aokiji: Oops, sorry there.
There hasn't been a worthwhile one among 'em.[/hide]
they were also considered equals in swordfighting. . . no one ever said that shanks only uses a sword. He probably knows some other moves. I think that at least he is a lot stronger then Mihawk is now
So far, there is no evidence that Shanks is stronger, or even as strong as Mihawk. In fact, all evidence points to the reverse, ie: the fact that Shanks has been seen primaraly using a sword (past and present), and the fact that he WAS a rival of Mihawk indicate he is a swordsman. The loss of his dominant hand must have weakened him, and the fact that Mihawk now holds the title of strongest swordsman shows that he has surpassed Shanks.
The whole "Shanks could have this or that power" argument is a really weak one as it lacks evidence and it could be used both ways. I could say that Mihawk could shoot optic blasts, or fart nuclear weapons, could you prove me wrong? Tbh, I really couldn't care who is stronger, and if you could prove Shanks is stronger I would be happy to accept it. Just don't use the whole "shanks is yonkou, mihawk is shichibukai, yonkou > shichibukai, shank > mihawk" argument because its not true, seeing as both Teach and Mihawk matched Shanks in a fight and Moria went toe to toe with Kaidou.
Tbh, in a fight between Ace and Aokiji, my vote would have to go to Aokiji, but not because of the fire pwns ice or ice pwns fire argument. My opinion is based on the rather roundabout logic based on the statement made by one of the Gorosei: that Aokiji is the strongest marine at at Marine HQ. If thats th case, it means that Aokiji > Kizaru. Kizaru's ability and Ace's are quite similar in that they both are heat based and have explosive results, however Kizaru appears to have an edge over Ace in speed and experience, and while Ace is said to be quite powerful without his df, physical combat is not that useful on its own against logias. If Aokiji > Kizaru, he must have a way to cope with Kizaru's heat based attacks, which he could use in a similar fashion if faced with Ace.
I don't know, maybe I'm just cluthing at straws here….
On topic: About them there shichibukai....
^^ Sanji's upper body has to be really strong. We saw how easily he used that huge mallet in Skypiea, not to mention several of his kicks (concasse, antimanner kick course) are supplemented by his arms. Just because he doesn't use his upper body to fight, does not mean its not strong.
Been away for a while but I have to answer this.
Franky is weaker than Sanji dude. Luffy was merely gauging Frankys skill at the time and not fighting him seriously at all. He wasn't willing to fight either Galley La or the Franky Family at that point because he did not consider them enemies.
I don't remember saying Franky was stronger than Sanji. My point was that Franky matched 'base' Luffy hit for hit. You say that Luffy was not fighting seriously and was gauging Franky's strength; if you can say that you could say the same for Franky. However, there is no proof that either was trying to gauge the other's strength. Luffy intended to kick Franky's ass for hurting Usopp, and Franky wanted to kick Luffy's for hurting the Franky family and destroying his house (Luffy saw Franky and the Franky family as enemies at this point.)
This was shown later at Enies Lobby when Franky realised he was no match for Lucci when Luffy was. Base Luffy is far stronger than Franky.
Base Luffy was no match for Lucci. Lucci was basically toying with him.
He could probably beat him (Franky) in two or three hits if he was fighting seriously.
I seriously doubt it.
Never happened. Luffy was gauging the strength of CP9 in the mansion and not fighting seriously. The entire crew at that time was pretty down about Robin not able to give it their all. They then regained their full strength when they realized that Robin wanted to come back at that Enies Lobby scene. Call it shonen logic or whatever, but otherwise it makes no sense that CP9 is stronger than the Straw Hats throughout Water 7 and then suddenly weaker less than a day later.
I call being beaten and thrown in between a building as having his ass handed to him. Remember Luffy was trying to recover a crewmember, so he would fight as best as he could at the time. His base form just did not cut it. Also, I'm pretty sure that in shonen it is pretty common for the hero to loose to the bad guy only to come back and win. Didn't this happen with Sir Crocodile, or was Luffy gauging his strength during the first two battles?
I think you and me have an entirely different perspective on the strength tiers
If you say so.
Luffy showed during his fight with Blueno that he was already above his level in every possible way. He merely wanted to show off Gear 2 to move on quickly. Its true he invented Gear 2 make himself stronger, but that was because of Ao Kiji and not CP9.
I agree. However Luffy invented gears because of Ao Kiji for Ao Kiji AND other strong opponents, including CP9.
And yes, Luffy could beat Kaku and Jabura in base because Zoro and Sanji could. and the strength order is always Luffy > Zoro > Sanji
Where to start. First of all, Luffy with gears is still Luffy. Secondly, just as you distinguish between the levels of power of Luffy without gears and Luffy with gears, I do with Zoro/Sanji without Asura/Diable jambe and Zoro/Sanji with Asura/Diable jambe. Like I said before, Gears are to Luffy what Asura/Diable Jambe are to Zoro and Sanji: a mode/form/level that gives them an increase in their destructive power. Taking what I just said into account, we could say that Sanji and Zoro did not beat Kaku and Jabra while they were in their 'base' forms, but rather in their (for want of a better term) 'levelled up' form.
Luffy fought near evenly with an opponent almost twice as strong as either Kaku or Jabura while Zoro struggled with just Kaku. Luffy shows he is stronger by the opponents he fights every single arc.
Once again, I am not arguing about whether Luffy is stronger or not. My argument is that several people (yourself included) grossly overestimate the difference in power between Luffy and the rest of the crew. Yes Luffy fought near evenly with Lucci, but even with the use of his gears he still took an age to barely win, almost dying in the process. However, when Sanji/Zoro used Diable jambe/Asura, their battle came to a quick end (makes one wonder how quick their fights would have been if they had just used it from the beginning). This shows how much stronger Sanji and Zoro were compared to Jabra and Kaku.
Let me just say this to clarify things, I don't care what the formula was, whether it be Luffy>Zoro>Sanji, Luffy=Zoro>Sanji, Luffy>Zoro=Sanji, etc. My point is that whatever the ratio of power was before, it is the same now; it hasn't gone from: for example, Luffy>=Zoro>=Sanji to Luffy>>>>>>>>Zoro>=Sanji.
Oh and Luffy is definitely stronger than Zoro.
Not going to argue with you here.
And I'm talking base Luffy with no Gears.
Here, however, is where I have a problem. You forget that Franky fought on equal terms with "base Luffy". You forget how easily base Luffy got his ass handed to him by CP9. Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the whole reason for inventing Gears so Luffy could fight and win against stronger opposition (like CP9) he would normally have been unable to beat. Since the introduction of gears, how many strong characters has Luffy fought and won against in his "base" form. None if I recall correctly. Why because at that stage (Enies Lobby) onwards the enemies are too strong for Luffy to take on without the invention and use of gears. However, for people to believe he can take out the potential world's strongest swordsman without them borders on ignorance and/or extreme fanboy-ism. Do you really think base Luffy could have beaten Kaku or Jabra in his base form? Gears is to Luffy what Asura is to Zoro and Diable Jambe is to Sanji: an increase in the destructive power, and not some ability that makes Luffy into some god/super saiyan whose farts can destroy planets.
I think Moria is a lot more powerful than people give him credit for. If I remember correctly, didn't he fight the Yonkou Kaidou on even terms but was defeated because his underlings were killed? Not to mention, his ability to make his shadow solid and use it to battle (eg: doppleman, brick bat) is makes him a formidable opponent. Tbh, I could look back at most of Luffy's opponents and think that if he were to fight them again now, he would win. Moria on the other hand I'm not too sure about.
I always thought that the ranking for the strength of the blues was determined by the average bounty (in this case, bounty is a measure of strength) of their criminals.
We however can't determine where the North Blue, or any of the other blues besides East blue, rank in terms of strength. Whilst we may know a few remarkable individuals from the other seas, they do not represent the majority; they may be the Luffys and Zoros to their own respective sea: the extreme end of the bell curve. The only thing we know for certain is that the East Blue is the weakest, with an average bounty of 3 million beri.
[hide]From Stephens scripts: One Piece, Volume 6, Chapter 51
Mihawk: I am not a stupid beast who needs to use all of his power just to hunt rabbits.
You may fancy yourself a renowned bladesman,
But of the four seas divided by the Red Line and Grand Line,
East Blue is the WEAKEST of them all.[/hide]
[hide] From Stephen's scripts: One Piece, Volume 11, Chapter 96
[World Government Forces, "Marine Headquarters"]
Officers: So what you are saying is that this group
can no longer be contained by our branch forces…?
Speaker: "Buggy the Clown," 15 million berries.
Pirate Fleet Admiral "Don Krieg," 17 million berries.
Fishman Pirate Crew "Arlong the Saw," 20 million berries!!
[Marine Headquarters Lieutenant Commander]
Brandnew: These pirate crews have breached the 10 million berry mark,
high above the East Blue average of three million,
but they have all been neutralized.
30 million might seem like an extraordinary amount for an initial bounty,
but we feel that it is entirely appropriate, given the circumstances.
We must pluck out this seed of evil now to prevent the possibility of further damage!!!