How do we even know Moria's former enemies? If they are people Moria has beaten and Luffy beats Moria, then Luffy can probably beat them.
Where everyone stands in OP??
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I was speaking in general (sorry if I wasn't clear). Luffy may be able to defeat some characters but he might not be able to beat other characters because he will never fight them or they just outclass him.
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before the bounties and gecko moria i believed that the SH had a long way to go to be somewhere near a schichibukai and that croc was an exception since his bounty was near 5 times smaller than donflamingo
Shows you assuming that bounties are a good measurement of "power"
i seem to believe this cuz if luffy is yet to defeat another schichibukai then indeed my thoughts are true and luffy deserves that bounty and zoro's and sanji's should be near to luffy
An example of you assuming being able to defeat an enemy is the sole factor for determining bounties.
i think WB and shanks are way ahead of the other yonkou due yonkou=schichibukai and that the marines except of smoker and garp only the admirals and sengoku are in a big level and mihawk,BB and maybe jinbei or the remaining schichibukai are in a big level from the schichibukai
Shows you assuming that rank= power, that bounty is credible evidence to determine power, and forgetting that a weakling character could defeat a powerful one as long as they have the right abilities and environmental factors (hell, underwater even hatchan could defeat enel.)
So you did make the assumptions stated above. But if you want to argue that I am wrong and those statements are accurate, please do so. But don't dismiss out of hand after a long quote. It's bad form.
Oh also, a little friendly advice: You would get a lot more respect on this board if you divided your paragraphs into sentences, capitalized the first letter of words occasionally, and didn't quote long post unnecessarily. Reading your posts is almost as annoying as reading Gerikhabarovsk's giant shit-colored font.
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Shows you assuming that rank= power, that bounty is credible evidence to determine power, and forgetting that a weakling character could defeat a powerful one as long as they have the right abilities and environmental factors (hell, underwater even hatchan could defeat enel.)
I agree with you that Bounty does NOT equal power. However, I do not agree with you about weaklings being able to defeat the mighty. Hatchan can defeat Ener in the water, but we all know that we would not catch Ener in the water. To determine who is stronger; It all comes down to abilities, period.
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Rank-
I do not understand the reasoning why one would assume that the WG would make all promotions based off of physical strength. Do you really think that Nezumi, the little rat CAPTAIN from the arlong arc is stronger than Koby, who is only a Chief Petty Officer?Rank in the WG likely depends on experience, training, obedience, and perhaps most importantly, connections to higher ranking officers. We will likely see weakling vice admirals and amazingly powerful vice admirals before this series is through. Power isn't everything.
Actually from what we've seen until now it seems Marine HQ ranks (as outside branches are irrelevant now, they're almost on a different world) serve mainly as a typical shonen device to determine a character's power level.
We already know the three highest ranked officers of Marine HQ are also the strongest fighters under direct orders of the WG (they're not called the "Greatest Powers" for nothing) , and the fight on the Bridge of Hesitation sort of confirms this theory as well.
First, because we've seen an homogeneity in the strenght of the Captains and Commanders who fought against the Strawhats; basically, they all sucked. If only one of them among the two hundred who fought Luffy's crew was close from Smoker's level the Strawhats would probably have been annihilated. Instead the Captains got one shot ko'd exactly like T-Bone earlier, implying this is the average Marine HQ Captain strenght and that Smoker is indeed an exception.
Then, if rank was not an indicator of strenght, why would the Vice Admirals have send only Captains and Commanders to take care of the Strawhats, clearly saying "our best and brightest"? Seems to me they'd have said something like "our strongest fighters, regardless of rank, go get them now".
So basically, I think Marine HQ ranks = power levels, and that those who don't fit this description are exceptions.
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This post is deleted!
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@Superstar, you're of course right that abilities are the real factor, but environment makes a big difference as well.
In fact, Oda has been greatly handicapping the strawhats with the environment where the fights are staged to make weaker opponents give a them a greater challenge. Arlong was fought in or near water, croc in a desert, enel in the sky, and foxy in an enclosed environment of his choosing. Each of these character could likely take any of the others in their chosen battlefield.
Sure abilities matter more but environment can be the deciding factor in a fight. Luffy's great strength is his versatility and adaptability in fighting these enemies under greatly disadvantageous conditions.
@Aldrich, I should have guessed that you would jump on that topic.
While I understand your points, I can't say that I agree that Rank = power is a universal statement. For example, do you think it's guaranteed that the Gorosei and Sengoku are more powerful than aokji? By you're logic that is certain.
Also, and I hate to bring this up already knowing your opinion on the matter, but don't you think that if they Buster Call Vice Admirals were all at that power level they would have made a more significant impact on the Enies Lobby fight? I mean, they even used a gun to kill a subordinate instead of using their own power.
sigh… already regretting releasing the wrath of aldrich ;)
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@boiga: Understandable, but the outcome of all those fights are usually out of BOTH the combatants comfort zone and raw skill takes over to decide a victor.
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Ranks = Power levels, Bounties = power levels. They aren't perfect, there are exceptions and they are flawed but they are power levels nonetheless.
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The Gorosei isn't part of Marine HQ, so that doesn't contradict my point. As for Sengoku… For the moment it seems he is weaker than Aokiji, but I'll wait to have more info on him before passing judgement.
Basically, what I'm saying is there's roughly a power level for each rank: Admirals are monsters, Vice-Admirals are extremely powerful, Captains are nothing special and bound to get their asses kicked by the Strawhats etc. Then the strenght level for each rank can slightly vary maybe, there is exceptions, but I highly doubt it's all over the place.
Again, it's a shonen manga we're talking about, which puts the emphasis on fights. We've seen two instances of officers getting promoted until now. And in both case it was because they supposedly defeated and arrested powerful pirates by themselves: a reward for their fighting abilities.
As for the Enies Lobby Vice Admirals... It was more an example of convenient plothole from Oda than a real proof of weakness from them I think. Oda probably thought drawing the Strawhats getting rid of 5 Vice Admirals after fighting against CP9 was too much and would be less credible than doing the same with Captains. Plus honestly none of the VAs looked all that concerned by the Strawhats. It looked like another day at the office for them, and it's probably what costed them the victory.
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The Vice-Admirals did seem like they could destroy the SHs right then and there if they really wanted to.
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Ranks = Power levels, Bounties = power levels. They aren't perfect, there are exceptions and they are flawed but they are power levels nonetheless.
As far as bounties are concerned, their flaws and exceptions are understood in the manga. It is guaranteed that a character with a gigantic bounty is going to be hellishly powerful.
What can not be said is that a character with a low bounty is guaranteed to be weak. Like I mentioned before, if a pirate grows in their abilities outside the jurisdiction of the WG, they will have a handicapped bounty. Oda has already explained two examples of this: Crocodile and Enel where their deserved bounty would be much higher than their given bounty.
Any Shichibukai is going to have a handicapped bounty because any gain in notoriety (power X criminality) after they are named to their position is not counted towards their bounty.
Whether Rank=Power is right or not has yet to be determined in my opinion. It is almost guaranteed that we will have a complete arc filled with Marine enemies at some point. My personal opinion is that when that happens we will see more examples of extremely powerful lower ranked Marines and physically weak but amazingly intelligent higher ranked marines.
One other current example of that is the old lady Vice Admiral Tsuru the "Great Tactician." It would be difficult for me to believe that she is physically stronger than Captain T Bone who can still cut a train in half, even if he is no challenge to zoro.
So, my main point is that while no one can deny the trend of higher bountied/ranked characters having for the most part greater fighting prowess, there are sufficient exceptions to these trends that it would be a mistake to assume one character will defeat another simply because they are higher ranked/bountied.
After all, chopper should at least be able to beat a 60 berry bounty opponent, don't you think?
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**Everything you mentioned fits into a flaw or exception. Bounties and ranks were not designed to be perfect in OP. They are supposed to have flaws. The accuracy of bounties and ranks in terms of power levels are limited to the knowledge of the WG and/or marines.
There is a reason bounties increase in number as more notorious pirates arise and Admirals are superior to captains. Because they are better, or at least are believed to be better.**
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@Impel:
I doubt that Luffy's bounty will get raised for this, since NO ONE KNOWS HE'S THERE.
Agreed. I think this will turn out much like the SkyPier arc, where Luffy beats a pretty tough boss, but since it's not on the actual surface of Earth (In the belly of some sort of weird animal/ship thing?), the Marines won't raise his bounty.
Also, I have a sketchy memory, but I think I remember them saying that Gecko Moria was a 'former' 7bukai? Correct me if I'm wrong here; I think he might have been replaced or something… :unsure:
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Everything you mentioned fits into a flaw or exception. Bounties and ranks were not designed to be perfect in OP. They are supposed to have flaws. The accuracy of bounties and ranks in terms of power levels are limited to the knowledge of the WG and/or marines.
Since, Dragon being the most wanted Criminal in the World. What if his bounty was higher than a Whitebeard or Mihawk'? Would you say that Dragon is stronger than these two?
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As far as bounties are concerned, their flaws and exceptions are understood in the manga. It is guaranteed that a character with a gigantic bounty is going to be hellishly powerful.
Mmm.. I don't really agree with that. Let's see.. Okay.. Let's take Ussop for an example. He got a 30 million bounty. What did he do? Burn a flag, shoot Spandam and a bunch of marines from far away. Compared to Nami, 15 million bounty. What did she do? Risk her life to fight a CP9 member, Kalifa. Compared to Chopper, 50 beri. What did he do? Risk his own life to fight Kumadori, risk his life again to use Monster Point. Well… well.. well.. so high bounty doesn't guarantee strong powers. I could go around burning/vandalizing hundreds of World Government flag and get a bounty of what, 100 million even though I am a weak piece of turd. Haha.
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Well being a VA or any position in the marines or WG IS a measurement of POWER AND at the same time NOT
WTF you say?
Well I think theyre are even more categories in each rank. One that in charge of strategy, one for fighting, and one for defense, etc…
For instance that VA you meet up with in Ace's side story was commander of a fortress. So maybe for organizing defense and strategies? On the other hand the ones who led the Buster call were VAs that led offense missions and thus were general more suited for combat.
However I think to be an Admiral or Supreme Admiral, you have to be balanced in all three. (uh Aoi Koji is an exception...)
Furthermore I just want to say I think Sengoku is probaly stronger then Aoi Koji due to how WB refered to him when he was recollecting the good old days.
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So it seems to me that you base power level on bounty?
I believe it isnt this way in One Piece…
The admirals weaker then the CP9? I don’t believe so. A buster call was just a bunch of cannons shooting the island down…if that means strength, then that means Usopp with a gun will be as strong as Sanji.I'm sorry but somehow I really disagree with ALOT of things in the first post.
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Well, We know that bounties aren't perfect analysis of a person's fighting abillity. Some are hardly close.
As for rank in the marines. I don't know about all of this, but I don't think rank necessairily means more power. Someone can be very high rank but not neccessarily strong. I mean the President of the United States is the highest ranked in the military, but that doesn't mean he's the best soldier. The reason we don't really have examples of people who are weak, smart and high ranked is because they aren't on the frontlines. The people are behid the scenes doing the Navy's brain work. You can be a Vice Admiral,but not for fighting reasons. We just haven't seen many because of the reason that One Piece mosty focuses around the fighting. We haven't really examined the inner core of the Navy. You could be an expert tactician who might suck at fighting, but be able to command your soldiers through anything. That would be worthy of a vice admiral position in my book.As for logias. The trick to beating logias in my opinion is the opposite. Luffy has defeated two logias so far with the main strategy of the logia's element's opposite. Water is to sand as rubber is to lightning. A seastone is good too, but I don't think that seastones are just abundant things that everyone has lying around in their pockets. BB was able to beat Ace (Don't know about this, but because of Shank's warning, and the fact that Ace's powers were getting cancelled out I'm fairly sure that he lost.) because his logia powers of darkness cancelled his fire.
Yes, there are certain people that are lightyears ahead of the strawhats. Though you can't really say who is better than the other and who is the best because everyone can't fight everyone, and some people match up better against others than others do. Luffy beat Enel, but Enel could probably defeat a lot of people down on the ocean. Sure, Shanks and Whitebeard are quite equal, but both seem as if they are not at the best of their abillities. Whitebeard is hooked up to medical machines and other things while Shanks is missing an arm. Though Shanks is probably used to fighting one armed, and Whitebeard is still plenty powerful still I bet if Shanks still had his arm and if Whitebeard wasn't in the condition he is in now, they would both be much poweful. THe other two Younkous haven't even been released yet. They could be weaker than WB and SHanks but they could also be equals or even superior to them. (though I doubt that)
Shichibukai seem to be in a wide range as far as fighting power goes. Plus just because some have higher bounties than the other, doesn't neccessarily mean the higher bountie > the lower one. Bounties are increased because of a crime and threat. If someone was extremely powerful but did not do anything wrong, would that mean he would have high bountie on his head?
Kuma could easily be an extremely good fighter, but based on what his personality seems like, I don't think he would commit anything EXTREMELY bad, but then there are people like Gecko Moria and DoFlamingo, one mans the biggest ship in the world that has a castle and is filled with zombies that fear him, and then there is a man who kills his own past crewmates just for losing. Both sound like people that would commit bad crimes, therefore their bounties are the highest we've seen so far. Monkey D. Dragon is considered the biggest World Gov't. threat, so he probably has the highest bountie. He verywell could be, but that doesn't mean he is the strongest.As for the earlier talk as Mihawk > Shanks. I don't think that's true either. Shanks may be a swordsman and Mihawk may be the number one swordsman, bu that doesn't mean Shanks only uses swords. I'm fairly sure that Mihawk only focuses on his swordsmanship be
cause it would be difficult to be the world's number one and have another powerful abillity unless it was one that supplemented his fighting abillity.Sorry for the length of the post. I got carried away! >.<
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Impressive summary post Kaku!
I agree with almost everything. The only caveat is that Blackbeard's ability is so amazing because it cancels ALL logia on contact. It should even remove the ability of Paramecia to control their power and stop Zoon's from transforming.
Blackbeard would count as another exception to the rule that Bounty=power. His bounty is likely lower than luffy's considering that he thought that defeating luffy would give him a significant boost to his reputation. Despite this, his potential to defeat Whitebeard could very well make him the strongest pirate on the planet.
@polygon: When you accumulate enough exceptions to a rule, the rule doesn't seem too solid.
You're right that bounties and ranks give a very accurate description of what the WG thinks about how dangerous you are. However, that doesn't necessarily translate into any sort of predictive ability about who will beat who in a fight. The government isn't always right. -
All all bounty equals is how much the WG knows about you, if they didn't see you kill sengoku it means you get no bounty. At the very most all you can determine from a high bounty is they are a major threat to the WG. The reason for it is unknown though, however you are free to guess it's because they are super strong.
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As for the earlier talk as Mihawk > Shanks. I don't think that's true either. Shanks may be a swordsman and Mihawk may be the number one swordsman, bu that doesn't mean Shanks only uses swords. I'm fairly sure that Mihawk only focuses on his swordsmanship be
cause it would be difficult to be the world's number one and have another powerful abillity unless it was one that supplemented his fighting abillity.Mihawk, in a fight with Shanks, would most definately win. The two would have to fight with swords, because that's apparently the only way Mihawk fights, much like Zoro. Mihawk is the strongest swordsman, therefore, he could beat anyone else in a sword fight.
I really can't see Mihawk vs Shanks without the involvement of swords. The question is… how strong was Shanks with his other arm? Equal to Mihawk, is likely... but how powerful was Mihawk back then?
Another question is: How strong is Shanks without using swords? With that answered, a comparison in general strength between Mihawk and Shanks can be made.
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Shanks has fight with Mihawk before according to the manga.
And Shanks is equal with WB in the mnaga holdign against with only oen arm? -
Shows you assuming that bounties are a good measurement of "power"
An example of you assuming being able to defeat an enemy is the sole factor for determining bounties.
Shows you assuming that rank= power, that bounty is credible evidence to determine power, and forgetting that a weakling character could defeat a powerful one as long as they have the right abilities and environmental factors (hell, underwater even hatchan could defeat enel.)
So you did make the assumptions stated above. But if you want to argue that I am wrong and those statements are accurate, please do so. But don't dismiss out of hand after a long quote. It's bad form.
Oh also, a little friendly advice: You would get a lot more respect on this board if you divided your paragraphs into sentences, capitalized the first letter of words occasionally, and didn't quote long post unnecessarily. Reading your posts is almost as annoying as reading Gerikhabarovsk's giant shit-colored font.
if you read my post and understood these then either i didn't wrote what i meant correct or you don't get what you read
ranks=power in the admirals,i said about the VA that it doesn't
bounties=power in most cases and if luffy beats moria then it also does suit him
but you are making my thoughts too general,if bounies meant only power dragon would be the strongest person out there not WB
all i am saying is that if pirates with bounties that reach billion beries exist and luffy beats moria then indeed he is worthy of his bounty
also thanks for your advice and sorry if i hurt your feelings,i would agree it was my fault and i flamed you somehow so i will not say anything about the last line
The Gorosei isn't part of Marine HQ, so that doesn't contradict my point. As for Sengoku… For the moment it seems he is weaker than Aokiji, but I'll wait to have more info on him before passing judgement.
everybody is confused from usopp's words,take a look at the script:
http://www.mangascreener.com/stephen/onepiece/chapter319.txt
usopp didn't know who aokiji was a minute ago and then he sais he's the strongest of the marines,that is a general comment that was pointing to the admiral rank he posseses
The Vice-Admirals did seem like they could destroy the SHs right then and there if they really wanted to.
i disagree,if 500 VA exist and moria is for example the 5th strongest schichibukai then due to schichibukai=MHQ,i have to say that luffy>most of VA
**Everything you mentioned fits into a flaw or exception. Bounties and ranks were not designed to be perfect in OP. They are supposed to have flaws. The accuracy of bounties and ranks in terms of power levels are limited to the knowledge of the WG and/or marines.
There is a reason bounties increase in number as more notorious pirates arise and Admirals are superior to captains. Because they are better, or at least are believed to be better.**
exactly
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And Shanks is equal with WB in the mnaga holdign against with only oen arm?
Well, you can't say equal. It was one clash… nobody can precisely judge ones strength compared to another just by one clash.
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Yeah, that is right, but I still think so :p And Wb´s crewmates think Shanks is terrifyeing.
But no need to argue about this, this has no proof. -
Well, you can't say equal. It was one clash… nobody can precisely judge ones strength compared to another just by one clash.
Well, at least he is damn close tho WB's strenght. Otherwise he wouldn't have attacked against him.
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So it seems to me that you base power level on bounty?
I believe it isnt this way in One Piece…
The admirals weaker then the CP9? I don’t believe so. A buster call was just a bunch of cannons shooting the island down…if that means strength, then that means Usopp with a gun will be as strong as Sanji.I'm sorry but somehow I really disagree with ALOT of things in the first post.
accepted,no need to be sorry,it's speculation anyway,i don't write the manga,i am taking the possibility that 500 VA exist and that WB,shanks,mihawk and a phew others in their level have bounties of billions and that luffy will beat moria
there are a lot of "if's" in my thoughts
Well, We know that bounties aren't perfect analysis of a person's fighting abillity. Some are hardly close.
As for rank in the marines. I don't know about all of this, but I don't think rank necessairily means more power. Someone can be very high rank but not neccessarily strong. I mean the President of the United States is the highest ranked in the military, but that doesn't mean he's the best soldier. The reason we don't really have examples of people who are weak, smart and high ranked is because they aren't on the frontlines. The people are behid the scenes doing the Navy's brain work. You can be a Vice Admiral,but not for fighting reasons. We just haven't seen many because of the reason that One Piece mosty focuses around the fighting. We haven't really examined the inner core of the Navy. You could be an expert tactician who might suck at fighting, but be able to command your soldiers through anything. That would be worthy of a vice admiral position in my book.As for logias. The trick to beating logias in my opinion is the opposite. Luffy has defeated two logias so far with the main strategy of the logia's element's opposite. Water is to sand as rubber is to lightning. A seastone is good too, but I don't think that seastones are just abundant things that everyone has lying around in their pockets. BB was able to beat Ace (Don't know about this, but because of Shank's warning, and the fact that Ace's powers were getting cancelled out I'm fairly sure that he lost.) because his logia powers of darkness cancelled his fire.
Yes, there are certain people that are lightyears ahead of the strawhats. Though you can't really say who is better than the other and who is the best because everyone can't fight everyone, and some people match up better against others than others do. Luffy beat Enel, but Enel could probably defeat a lot of people down on the ocean. Sure, Shanks and Whitebeard are quite equal, but both seem as if they are not at the best of their abillities. Whitebeard is hooked up to medical machines and other things while Shanks is missing an arm. Though Shanks is probably used to fighting one armed, and Whitebeard is still plenty powerful still I bet if Shanks still had his arm and if Whitebeard wasn't in the condition he is in now, they would both be much poweful. THe other two Younkous haven't even been released yet. They could be weaker than WB and SHanks but they could also be equals or even superior to them. (though I doubt that)
Shichibukai seem to be in a wide range as far as fighting power goes. Plus just because some have higher bounties than the other, doesn't neccessarily mean the higher bountie > the lower one. Bounties are increased because of a crime and threat. If someone was extremely powerful but did not do anything wrong, would that mean he would have high bountie on his head?
Kuma could easily be an extremely good fighter, but based on what his personality seems like, I don't think he would commit anything EXTREMELY bad, but then there are people like Gecko Moria and DoFlamingo, one mans the biggest ship in the world that has a castle and is filled with zombies that fear him, and then there is a man who kills his own past crewmates just for losing. Both sound like people that would commit bad crimes, therefore their bounties are the highest we've seen so far. Monkey D. Dragon is considered the biggest World Gov't. threat, so he probably has the highest bountie. He verywell could be, but that doesn't mean he is the strongest.As for the earlier talk as Mihawk > Shanks. I don't think that's true either. Shanks may be a swordsman and Mihawk may be the number one swordsman, bu that doesn't mean Shanks only uses swords. I'm fairly sure that Mihawk only focuses on his swordsmanship be
cause it would be difficult to be the world's number one and have another powerful abillity unless it was one that supplemented his fighting abillity.Sorry for the length of the post. I got carried away! >.<
i only disagree about mihawk and shanks
it is true that kuma could for example be the strongest schichibukai (i really doubt that) but i think oda has presented some monsters like shanks,WB,mihawk as the top of the ladder and the others are just appearing near to the circumstances
but from what i've seen so far i believe some people are light years ahead of others,like croc with mihawk or WB and that for example mihawk and jinbei can only match WB and shanks while the other 2 yonkou=the remaining 5 schichibukai or shanks>BB but jinbei>the other 2 yonkou (not together) or it could be slighlty different but that is how i see it
also if someone is interested in this subject he will read your post,don't care if most don't
@AD-HD:
Well, at least he is damn close tho WB's strenght. Otherwise he wouldn't have attacked against him.
true
Impressive summary post Kaku!
I agree with almost everything. The only caveat is that Blackbeard's ability is so amazing because it cancels ALL logia on contact. It should even remove the ability of Paramecia to control their power and stop Zoon's from transforming.
Blackbeard would count as another exception to the rule that Bounty=power. His bounty is likely lower than luffy's considering that he thought that defeating luffy would give him a significant boost to his reputation. Despite this, his potential to defeat Whitebeard could very well make him the strongest pirate on the planet.
@polygon: When you accumulate enough exceptions to a rule, the rule doesn't seem too solid.
You're right that bounties and ranks give a very accurate description of what the WG thinks about how dangerous you are. However, that doesn't necessarily translate into any sort of predictive ability about who will beat who in a fight. The government isn't always right.well you know some are exceptions but most of the other fit in the rule ranks=power,bounties=power and respect from other pirates
not all VA are tacticians like crane or strong like garp,and a phew captains might be close to smoker or smoker could well be weaker only than garp or he could be only weaker than one or 2 admirals or sengoku
we have to see,people are forgetting the first sentance,take it easy cuz it is a speculation thread
@ONEinchPUNCH:All all bounty equals is how much the WG knows about you, if they didn't see you kill sengoku it means you get no bounty. At the very most all you can determine from a high bounty is they are a major threat to the WG. The reason for it is unknown though, however you are free to guess it's because they are super strong.
i agree,BB is the proof to that post
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@AD-HD:
Well, at least he is damn close tho WB's strenght. Otherwise he wouldn't have attacked against him.
Of course Shanks is around the same in strength as Whitebeard. All Yonkou's a supposedly around the same in power. But to say they're equal is one step beyond. Whitebeard has the title of the strongest man in the world; so he is… the strongest man in the world, until Oda says he isn't.
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But Shanks doesn't use physical power, he's used aura mostly. Against that Sea King? Aura to scare it away. Against WB's crew? Aura.
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I@polygon: When you accumulate enough exceptions to a rule, the rule doesn't seem too solid.
You're right that bounties and ranks give a very accurate description of what the WG thinks about how dangerous you are. However, that doesn't necessarily translate into any sort of predictive ability about who will beat who in a fight. The government isn't always right.**Yes, it does. Why do you think he put bounties and marine ranks in One Piece? So that the readers will have something to gauge their power without them going all out. Why do you think that the Bellamy pirates started shitting in their pants when they learned of Luffy and Zoro's true bounties? Bounties are based on how much threat the WG think you pose to them, but 99% of the time a pirate's strength is that threat. Or at least a large part of it.
As for Marine ranks, people are promoted for a reason. they aren't perfect but they reflect both power, leader ship and loyalty.**
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**Yes, it does. Why do you think he put bounties and marine ranks in One Piece? So that the readers will have something to gauge their power without them going all out. Why do you think that the Bellamy pirates started shitting in their pants when they learned of Luffy and Zoro's true bounties? Bounties are based on how much threat the WG think you pose to them, but 99% of the time a pirate's strength is that threat. Or at least a large part of it.
As for Marine ranks, people are promoted for a reason. they aren't perfect but they reflect both power, leader ship and loyalty.**
exactly,smoker said it when he got luffy:
! Smoker: And you're worth 30 million Berii?!
! - Page 24 -
! Luffy: Whoa!! OOBF!!!
! Smoker: Ah, my bad luck's finally run out.
! Someone: I doesn't seem that way to me though…!!if they are able to beat a pirate with a big bouty that is considered out of their league's power of course they are going to be promoted cuz it shows they can help in more difficult cases
i put dragon's words too cuz he is damn awesome!!
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**Yes, it does. Why do you think he put bounties and marine ranks in One Piece? So that the readers will have something to gauge their power without them going all out. Why do you think that the Bellamy pirates started shitting in their pants when they learned of Luffy and Zoro's true bounties? Bounties are based on how much threat the WG think you pose to them, but 99% of the time a pirate's strength is that threat. Or at least a large part of it.
As for Marine ranks, people are promoted for a reason. they aren't perfect but they reflect both power, leader ship and loyalty.**
Actually, I learned the exact opposite lesson from Bellamy's crew's obsession with their own bounties. Bellamy assumed that he could beat anyone with a lower bounty than him and treated them like he was invulnerable to their attacks. But when it comes down to it, strength=strength, not bounty. If Luffy had met Bellamy in East Blue, it still would have been a OHKO, even though luffy had no bounty at all at the time. I felt that Bellamy's faith in bounties was meant to demonstrate the shallowness of the materialistic "New World Order" because it blinded him to more traditional demonstrations of Pirate strength like stoicism, idealism, and honor.
I would argue that better fitting rule would be that:
bounty = (power x criminality)
Like others mentioned, Dragon is the highest bountied criminal in the world because he commits the worst crimes from the WG's point of view not because he is the strongest. An insanely strong character that commits no crimes the WG knows about would have no bounty (like Enel). A horrendous murderer that has no strength would have a small bounty because he would be easy to catch. So, while strength matters for bounty, it is not the only factor.
I agree with you wholeheartedly about marine ranks though.
@fixius: no worries man. We all understand that this is merely speculation over a comic strip and try not to take anything said too seriously. I find this kind of analysis amusing though, and tend to state my positions more forcefully than they necessarily deserve because it brings about a better discussion that saying "in my opinion" or "but I think that" every third line. It's all in good fun.
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@$abZ:
Mihawk, in a fight with Shanks, would most definately win. The two would have to fight with swords, because that's apparently the only way Mihawk fights, much like Zoro. Mihawk is the strongest swordsman, therefore, he could beat anyone else in a sword fight.
I really can't see Mihawk vs Shanks without the involvement of swords. The question is… how strong was Shanks with his other arm? Equal to Mihawk, is likely... but how powerful was Mihawk back then?
Another question is: How strong is Shanks without using swords? With that answered, a comparison in general strength between Mihawk and Shanks can be made.
I would consider Red-Haired Shanks and Mihawk equals. It was stated in the manga by whitebeard that Shanks and Mihawk had "Legendary Duels." Which means they fought plenty of times. In One of the Data books, I just looked through, it also said Shanks power (with both arms) was as sharp as the World's Greatest Swordsman; Mihawk. In manga/anime this pretty much lets us know that these two are/were equal because of the way the information is presented.
Also, Shanks (with all the info gathered up on him so far) seems like a swordsman. I don't see any other weapons that he has (we know he doesn't have a devil fruit) but his Blade, which he carries all the time. Shanks even used that Blade against Whitebeard, Most likely he is a swordsman.
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I would consider Red-Haired Shanks and Mihawk equals. It was stated in the manga by whitebeard that Shanks and Mihawk had "Legendary Duels." Which means they fought plenty of times. In One of the Data books, I just looked through, it also said Shanks power (with both arms) was as sharp as the World's Greatest Swordsman; Mihawk. In manga/anime this pretty much lets us know that these two are/were equal because of the way the information is presented.
Also, Shanks (with all the info gathered up on him so far) seems like a swordsman. I don't see any other weapons that he has (we know he doesn't have a devil fruit) but his Blade, which he carries all the time. Shanks even used that Blade against Whitebeard, Most likely he is a swordsman.
they HAD legendary duels,in the data book it sais they WERE rivals
that was once upon a time and mihawk now is the strongest swordsman while shanks is also a swordsman
@boiga
good to see you take no gratzes! -
But Shanks still is equal but not seeking the title of The Strognest Swordsman.
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But Shanks still is equal but not seeking the title of The Strognest Swordsman.
this is speculation,when something like that is stated then i will agree
but what i mention in my previous posts is all stated so mihawk>shanks
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Well, in other fights they were equal, but Shanks is probably weaker now, so Mihawk won't fight him.
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Shanks be on de piss getting locked there ain't no time te fight mihawk
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STOP!
Grammar time!I just read that out loud, and realized it was an incoherent rap, which has very little to do with the topic at hand.
Anyway, I believe that:
2 armed Shanks = Mihawk ( in terms of swordsmanship )
1 armed Shanks = Mihawk ( all out no restrictions )
1 armed Shanks < Mihawk ( in terms of swordsmanship )The reason I say this, is due to the Sea King incidence, where Shanks scared one off just by glaring at it.
This suggests that Shanks has some sort of aura similar to Zoro's demon ki, but not limited to it. This ability to project ones aura can be assumed to be used as an illusionary tactic, to draw a diversion, or it can physically manifest to provide an advantage to Shanks. -
I think that though the only weapon that Shanks has used so far is a sword, it doesn't mean that is his only strength. Sure, he may be a swordsman, and Mihawk may best him in his swordsmanship, but that doesn't mean that Shanks doesn't have other tricks up his sleeve. The only time we've really seen Shanks fight was between him and WB. He was using a sword, but something about him makes me think that he might have another abillity. I know it's no devil fruit, but that doesn't mean he can only be skilled in swordsmanship. We've only see him fight on one page of a 451 chaptered manga. Though it is 100% of the fighting we've seen him do. It hardly proves that his only abillity in battle is that of a sword. His aura may have something to do with it. It may be something else. All I'm saying is I don't think that in an actual battle where life and death matters, Shanks would just rely on his swordsmanship.
And Whitebeard. He may be the strongest man, but when was he given this title? After Gol D. Roger died? I don't think that he, now with the condition it looks like he's in, is really truely the strongest man. It's for certain he's up there. But there are other men consiered his equals. Shanks i.e. is one of them. They may not be equals, but their power is most definately relatively close. The other two yonkou haven't been reaveled yet, and though they may be just as weak as the current Schichibukai that have fought, excluding Mihawk. (if you count him chopping up boats with Don Krieg and cutting the crap out of Zoro with a butter knife.) Either way, I wouldn't be surprised.
Blackbeard, because of his abillity, is certainly up there with Shanks, Whitebeard, and Mihawk. If he isn't, he's not too far off, and he will soon be. Shanks' forewarning to Whitebeard is foreshadowing of what's to come with BB. He's the reason Shanks has that scar. And I don't think Shanks is one to allow his enemies to injure him so easily. (with one exception being the sea monster that took his arm)
The much early topic of billion bounty people, I wouldn't be surprised. Especially with Dragon. Moria has a frozen bounty of 370 if I recall. I don't think he has commited nearly as bad of crimes as Dragon. Dragon is probably the WG's most feared enemy, and he has an army that's ready to fight theirs. He's a huge threat to the WG and he's still gaining power. He's most definately passed 500 and I wouldn't be surprised if he hit billions yet. If not, he's most definately up there. -
Don't be daft. Everyone knows the truth: Strongest man in One Piece: Helmeppo 2.0. Douriki 9,300. They have the posters ready-made with a twelve-digit bounty in case he crosses over. :) :) :)
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I think that though the only weapon that Shanks has used so far is a sword, it doesn't mean that is his only strength. Sure, he may be a swordsman, and Mihawk may best him in his swordsmanship, but that doesn't mean that Shanks doesn't have other tricks up his sleeve. The only time we've really seen Shanks fight was between him and WB. He was using a sword, but something about him makes me think that he might have another abillity. I know it's no devil fruit, but that doesn't mean he can only be skilled in swordsmanship. We've only see him fight on one page of a 451 chaptered manga. Though it is 100% of the fighting we've seen him do. It hardly proves that his only abillity in battle is that of a sword. His aura may have something to do with it. It may be something else. All I'm saying is I don't think that in an actual battle where life and death matters, Shanks would just rely on his swordsmanship.
And Whitebeard. He may be the strongest man, but when was he given this title? After Gol D. Roger died? I don't think that he, now with the condition it looks like he's in, is really truely the strongest man. It's for certain he's up there. But there are other men consiered his equals. Shanks i.e. is one of them. They may not be equals, but their power is most definately relatively close. The other two yonkou haven't been reaveled yet, and though they may be just as weak as the current Schichibukai that have fought, excluding Mihawk. (if you count him chopping up boats with Don Krieg and cutting the crap out of Zoro with a butter knife.) Either way, I wouldn't be surprised.
Blackbeard, because of his abillity, is certainly up there with Shanks, Whitebeard, and Mihawk. If he isn't, he's not too far off, and he will soon be. Shanks' forewarning to Whitebeard is foreshadowing of what's to come with BB. He's the reason Shanks has that scar. And I don't think Shanks is one to allow his enemies to injure him so easily. (with one exception being the sea monster that took his arm)
The much early topic of billion bounty people, I wouldn't be surprised. Especially with Dragon. Moria has a frozen bounty of 370 if I recall. I don't think he has commited nearly as bad of crimes as Dragon. Dragon is probably the WG's most feared enemy, and he has an army that's ready to fight theirs. He's a huge threat to the WG and he's still gaining power. He's most definately passed 500 and I wouldn't be surprised if he hit billions yet. If not, he's most definately up there.well the scar on shanks,the attack on drum,the appearance in jaya,the fight with ace and BB being oda's favourite pirate all show that BB is no ordinary foe
but oda already showed us that BB could not fight WB,he fled so BB has a limit,now BB's crew getting stronger could happen or it is meant to happen but BB himself getting physical stronger is out of the question for me
and remember WB having medical treatment is cuz the guy oda based WB was like that so i don't think it is something except an appearance issue
and dragon is unknown to the world but garp as his father should know something about him and remember him in loguetown,smoker didn't even make a move to arrest him while he did with ace and he is luffy's father so i think he is in BB's level if not higher
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Dragon isn't unknown. People know about him and know what he is, but no one knows any details. Like the Zodiac Killer.
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they HAD legendary duels,in the data book it sais they WERE rivals that was once upon a time and mihawk now is the strongest swordsman while shanks is also a swordsman.
You keep stressing the past tense as if Shanks has gotten weaker? The info presented is always comparing Shanks to Mihawk, which suggest that these two are equal in power.
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You keep stressing the past tense as if Shanks has gotten weaker?
i refer to their duels and their rivalry in past tense cuz past tense was originally used in the data books,even IF they were still rivals and mihawk was still the no1 SM then i would still think mihawk was stronger than shanks but shanks would be slightly weaker
but
their duels belong to the past,in the data book it sais "when shanks WAS mihawk's rival",was means "is no more"
also who said shanks has gotten weaker??? he might be ambidextrous and he has changed his style to holding the sword with one hand equally well as if he was using both arms
if he had gotten weaker then he wouldn't have become/still be an emperor,it is up to oda to show us if the OP top characters actually have a limit or they can get stronger all the time so shanks may have gotten stronger and still increasing his strenght or he may have reached his maximum strenght but after he lost his arm
i say it is mihawk that gotten stronger and their rivalry ended,he won their rivalry,he is the world's strongest swordsman and shanks is a swordsman
The info presented is always comparing Shanks to Mihawk, which suggest that these two are equal in power
those info are presented to show just how powerfull shanks is
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Mihawk said he refused to fight someone with one arm, so he might, or even is/be stronger than Shanks, but just doesn't wanna fight him, because it would "be too easy".
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@Impel:
Mihawk said he refused to fight someone with one arm, so he might, or even is/be stronger than Shanks, but just doesn't wanna fight him, because it would "be too easy".
mihawk seems to be a close friend with shanks so that might have been a tease,remember he went all the way to find shanks just so he could show him the boy shanks was talking about now has a bounty and that he met them,that shows friendship
zoro said in his duel with mihawk that if he did one step back he could never return in front of him again and when he lost mihawk gave him the right to challenge him again
in the red data book it is said mihawk never declines a duel that he gave zoro a second chance in spite his loss
so it is easy to assume that to a proud swordman loss means he can't challenge the person that defeated him again and that is why mihawk allowed him to battle him again
and that goes on only for swordmen,it's like a code honour and that is why shanks asked mihawk if he came for a duel??? he was suprised
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I see what your saying Fixius. Nothing is really written in stone, the only revelations are Whitebeard is the "Strongest Man in the World" and "Hawkeye's" being the Strongest Swordsman in the World."
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Well, and we've seen what they can do.