About what shanks and garp said and asura

Hawkeye

@Final:

OMG! Thats like saying the sky is not blue.

6 = 6….........period

and Sabz are you tryin to flame me by calling me WB?

HAHAHA he called you WB you poopie head

HikaruYami

Haa, this is a great discussion topic! But, it was only started 15 days ago, and the topic creator (and the user Whitebeard) has been banned! Can someone tell me if it had anything to do with this topic? (sure hope not)

and lol @ banned people being called failed mutineers, but does that mean they actually tried overthrowing the admins?

ONEinchPUNCH

@$abZ:

Yeah they haven't proved what I asked them too. He asked me to read it, instead of actually using the chart to prove me wrong.

Prove what? Oda's chart is above your theories? It doesn't need proving since it's a fact. You can't take the fact none of that theory of yours is in the data book.

I can't help it though XD. We won a while back… I'll let them go on.

Hahaha I didn't know forums did damage to the body, it's made you delirious.

Go on OIP, WB and Phenomenol… say what you wish. Try to answer my above post too... if you can.

I've answered your extremely poor argument by showing you the red data book, which your eyes seem to edit out.

wolfwood

@HikaruYami:

Haa, this is a great discussion topic! But, it was only started 15 days ago, and the topic creator (and the user Whitebeard) has been banned! Can someone tell me if it had anything to do with this topic? (sure hope not)

and lol @ banned people being called failed mutineers, but does that mean they actually tried overthrowing the admins?

now im just guessing but i figure their banning is cause of their constant flame wars(complete with posting so called "funny" pictures and an gross over use of the word owned) and probably other things too, i dont find it very harsh i mean they had like five warnings each and plenty of chances to get their act straight but didnt listen.

and no they didnt its just a catchy little title that goes well with the pirate theme^^

and OIP i cant help but notice you often claim people are ignoring the data book but so far i can see no one who is questioning the chart everyone acknowledges that they both have a 6 in strength its as plain as day but what most people are disagreeing with is your interpertation of it.

ONEinchPUNCH

@wolfwood:

and OIP i cant help but notice you often claim people are ignoring the data book but so far i can see no one who is questioning the chart everyone acknowledges that they both have a 6 in strength its as plain as day but what most people are disagreeing with is your interpertation of it.

I think this puts it as simple as it can be, if you read the red book this is what you get.

Originally Posted by Phenomenol
Wrong, don't try and twist my post around. You saying that Oda used a rough estimation is bullocks. 6=6 which means SAME, EQUAL; If I have six jelly beans in one hand and I have six in the other that means that the BALANCE IS EQUAL!!!!!

wolfwood

well i think you totaly missed the point i was going for, yes they have an equal rating in the strength category you dont see anyone denying this but from this youve speculated that the attribute Strength=fighting abilitys and thus claim this makes it obvious they are 100% equal and its this interpertation most of us are arguing bout,

you dont see anybody claiming that they both dont have an equal rating in strength if you do see anyone doing that then feel free to tell them that they are ignoring the data book.

Well, I understand where you are coming from. You are saying despite the fact that Oda has said that they are both sixes, evidence from the manga says otherwise.

I am lead to believe that they are equal in the last battle they just had. Their opponents were equally strong but Zoro was able to slice the tower into half and Luffy was able to knock half the tower down with a single punch in Gear 3.

wolfwood

oh definitly i also think that so far the manga has shown them to be equal, im just arguing bout it cause i find it silly to preach that six in strength as unfailable proof of their equality when i feel its open for interpertation.

ONEinchPUNCH

@wolfwood:

well i think you totaly missed the point i was going for, yes they have an equal rating in the strength category you dont see anyone denying this but from this youve speculated that the attribute Strength=fighting abilitys and thus claim this makes it obvious they are 100% equal and its this interpertation most of us are arguing bout,

I've explained this before it isn't something new, in all shounen strength is fighting ability. Whitebeard was introduced at basically the same time as the redbook (just after alabasta) and he has strongest (strength) in his title. We then get strength in the data book, this is no coincidence it's Oda following basic shounen law.

you dont see anybody claiming that they both dont have an equal rating in strength if you do see anyone doing that then feel free to tell them that they are ignoring the data book.

I have they just keep saying 6 is sixth or whatever instead of using basic reading skills to see two number 6's.

At least your arguing something else but what I said pretty much proves Oda is following the typical shounen law. It is a shounen manga you can't expect him to remove all shounen basic laws from it.

The manga also support them being equal with the whiskey peak fight, constant strength comparisons and zoro fighting jabura and kaku at the same time. Also the fact asura has been proven to be a state (like gear2) and the move used in it, dismissed amanedachi and killed kaku in the space of a second.

Luffy and zoro are always potrayed equal through the manga, the data book and whitebeard isn't mere coincidence.

Nauykuyr

@Franklin:

I am lead to believe that they are equal in the last battle they just had. Their opponents were equally strong but Zoro was able to slice the tower into half and Luffy was able to knock half the tower down with a single punch in Gear 3.

Their opponents weren't equal in "strength", if douriki is an indication.

Lucci: 4000
Kaku: 2200
Jyubara: 2180

Oda has been building up Sanji vs. Zoro since they arrived on the Little Garden where they competed. It's also where Zoro lost to Mr 3, who Luffy then proceeded to defeat and save Zoro.

wolfwood

Heh i know OIP weve been over this interpertation stuff enough times and nothings seems to change, you have your view i have mine lets just agree to disagree shall we^^

and you wont get any argument from me bout how theyve been portrayed in the manga i totaly agree(tho i feel Sanjis up there with em to which you probably disagree with xD)

well Nauy bud i dont feel that Mr.3 suprise coating Zoro with wax counts as him "beating"him thats just me tho.

Radical jack

I actually see sanji to be equal to zoro wolf wood,But I'll leave that for some other time

ONEinchPUNCH

@wolfwood:

Heh i know weve been over this interpertation stuff enough times and nothings seems to change, you have your view i have mine lets just agree to disagree shall we^^

Fair enough, hopefully the yellow book will solve all our problems.

and you wont get any argument from me bout how theyve been portrayed in the manga i totaly agree(tho i feel Sanjis up there with em to which you probably disagree with xD)

Well sanji is up their with them but in my eyes he's failed to show that monsterous strength and wide variety of handy techniques (which is probably why he's a 5).

e.g zoro and luffy have a new state, sanji didn't get one he got a new move.

If you were reading my post in that has sanji improved thread I wasn't downplaying sanji, I was just saying his improvements are mostly in his technique and style, not raw power.

Nauykuyr

@wolfwood:

well Nauy bud i dont feel that Mr.3 suprise coating Zoro with wax counts as him "beating"him thats just me tho.

Fights aren't tournement style. Losing a fight doesn't necessarily make you a weaker fighter, nor does winning a fight mean you're "stronger". Mr. 3 used his power to defeat Zoro, simple as that. Same with Sanji vs. Kalifa.

True strength in One Piece can't really be summed up so easily. There's so many styles, strengths, weaknesses, and environments that it's really only up to Oda to state who will win (and Oda has shown that strength doesn't always determine a winner, especially in Nami/Usopp's fights).

ONEinchPUNCH

@Nauykuyr:

Fights aren't tournement style. Losing a fight doesn't necessarily make you a weaker fighter, nor does winning a fight mean you're "stronger". Mr. 3 used his power to defeat Zoro, simple as that. Same with Sanji vs. Kalifa.

Zoro was ambushed from behind how the hell is a kidnapping a fight? Lets let luffy fight sanji, sanji poisons luffys food and kills him. Is that afight to you also?

True strength in One Piece can't really be summed up so easily. There's so many styles, strengths, weaknesses, and environments that it's really only up to Oda to state who will win (and Oda has shown that strength doesn't always determine a winner, especially in Nami/Usopp's fights).

You just keep thinking that.

Pants-eater

True strength in One Piece can't really be summed up so easily. There's so many styles, strengths, weaknesses, and environments that it's really only up to Oda to state who will win (and Oda has shown that strength doesn't always determine a winner, especially in Nami/Usopp's fights).

Kind of like a mixture of ninjas, Shikamaru and walls.

AlmostLegendary

Why is the correlation between strength and figthing ability come into play. If this was dbz and we was doing power levels then it would make sense. But just because luffy and zoro 6=6 doesn't mean a fight between them = a draw. Also the strength chart doesn't go into luffy gears. So luffys lounge around strength is 6 gear 2 it increase and gear 3 it would increase even more.

Enel defeated zoro so how come it wasn't enel > luffy. OIP there's alot of holes in your thoeries. Also it takes no fact to see Croc > zoro.

Also Logia user DF strength are not that great but its still smoker > luffy.

Gaiyae

@Nauykuyr:

Fights aren't tournement style. Losing a fight doesn't necessarily make you a weaker fighter, nor does winning a fight mean you're "stronger". Mr. 3 used his power to defeat Zoro, simple as that. Same with Sanji vs. Kalifa.

True strength in One Piece can't really be summed up so easily. There's so many styles, strengths, weaknesses, and environments that it's really only up to Oda to state who will win (and Oda has shown that strength doesn't always determine a winner, especially in Nami/Usopp's fights).

Someone who gets it

OIP somehow keeps confusing this with DBZ..

I wonder what hes going to say about the Smoker > Luffy argument from the post above.

And i think it's quite bizarre that he thinks Nami's and Usopp's battles are just jokes compared to Zoro's. Going after that argument, Usopp wouldn't even be able to damage Luffy in the fight with him.

Archtyrant

Sigh..

I know this sounds harsh, and I can expect some angry retaliations, but..

Plain denial isn't going to convince anyone, you know? It's plain as daylight the result of this debate. Posting things like " Hah my friend here/I just owned you!" isn't going to work the way you want it to because: 1. you didn't own anybody, you just .. well.. didn't make yourself look too clever in front of anyone, because whatever you said was really open to interpretation and 2. you're just going to provoke a counter-argument.

Ok, how about this:

Why don't we all agree that Luffy and Zoro are roughly equal, and leave it at that?

We don't bother if anyone is marginally stronger, or if they are exactly equal, alright? Just say that we all have different interpretations of the Red Data book chart and what transpired throughout the manga.

Just so you know, no, no one convinced anyone. I just thought a peaceful resolution, instead of flame-war ending with a closure of this thread, would be better. And if you really want to know, its one thing to shut people up with really sound arguments, and another to just tire people out of trying to get simple statements through just by being in denial. Some of us are really feeling the effects of "talking to a wall", i guess.

DemonX

^lol,i totally agree with you^^

gamistras

This post is deleted!

ONEinchPUNCH

@MonkeyDMalcolm:

Why is the correlation between strength and figthing ability come into play. If this was dbz and we was doing power levels then it would make sense. But just because luffy and zoro 6=6 doesn't mean a fight between them = a draw. Also the strength chart doesn't go into luffy gears. So luffys lounge around strength is 6 gear 2 it increase and gear 3 it would increase even more.

You miss this?

@ONEinchPUNCH:

I've explained this before it isn't something new, in all shounen strength is fighting ability. Whitebeard was introduced at basically the same time as the redbook (just after alabasta) and he has strongest (strength) in his title. We then get strength in the data book, this is no coincidence it's Oda following basic shounen law.

It is a shounen manga you can't expect him to remove all shounen basic laws from it.

The manga also support them being equal with the whiskey peak fight, constant strength comparisons and zoro fighting jabura and kaku at the same time. Also the fact asura has been proven to be a state (like gear2) and the move used in it, dismissed amanedachi and killed kaku in the space of a second.

Luffy and zoro are always potrayed equal through the manga, the data book and whitebeard isn't mere coincidence.

Enel defeated zoro so how come it wasn't enel > luffy. OIP there's alot of holes in your thoeries.

And this?

@ONEinchPUNCH:

zoro fought enel+electricty, luffy fought enel-electricity which enel has a higher fighting ability? That is obvious it's in the damn manga an enel who can't use his powers fights luffy.

If you took zoro's swords away from him his fighting ability would go down. If you took luffy's DF away his fighting ability would go down. It's the same for enel, his DF was basically taken away.

Also it takes no fact to see Croc > zoro.

Croc>luffy for 2 rounds, luffy finds weakness crocs fighting ability goes down luffy wins.

Croc>zoro for (insert rounds here), zoro finds weakness crocs fighting ability goes down zoro wins.

Also Logia user DF strength are not that great but its still smoker > luffy

Correct until smokers weakness is found and his fighting ability decreases.

Phenomenol

@Nauykuyr:

Their opponents weren't equal in "strength", if douriki is an indication.

Lucci: 4000
Kaku: 2200
Jyubara: 2180

Oda has been building up Sanji vs. Zoro since they arrived on the Little Garden where they competed. It's also where Zoro lost to Mr 3, who Luffy then proceeded to defeat and save Zoro.

Douriki ONLY measures your ATHLETICS!!! and we all know Zoro beat down Kaku.

Sanji?:wassat: No…...that is wrong, Zoro and Sanji NEVER had a real fight like Luffy and Zoro had. Sanji is NOT on Zoro's level that is ridiculous. Luffy and Zoro are the equals!!

wolfwood

@ONEinchPUNCH:

e.g zoro and luffy have a new state, sanji didn't get one he got a new move.

wasnt Sanjis white hot burning feet also sort of a new state ? i always figured he could keep that up and use it with more techniqes just like Luffy uses his gears rather than just with that single technique just my take on it tho.

always figured the top three were rougly equals and none of them would go down easy if they ever fought.

gamistras

till now zoro and luffy are equals and sanji is quite close to them but in the future luffy may become slightly stronger than zoro

anyway i think oda has made sanji less important than luffy and zoro in OP,he never speaks of his dreams or potentials and all he quite does is turning his eyes into hearts and chasing-protecting women

i believe luffy and zoro are the big names in the SH and sanji for now ha a second role,i hope this will change cuz sanji hasn't spoken about all blue since logueown

AlmostLegendary

@ONEinchPUNCH:

You miss this?

And this?

Croc>luffy for 2 rounds, luffy finds weakness crocs fighting ability goes down luffy wins.

Croc>zoro for (insert rounds here), zoro finds weakness crocs fighting ability goes down zoro wins.

Correct until smokers weakness is found and his fighting ability decreases.

I didn't see those other post.

It was still luffy > croc in the end. Even if zoro finds croc weakness he wouldn't have been able to exploit it like luffy and probally would have ended up just like robin. Your saying 6=6 = fighting ability zoro= luffy zoro and luffy has had a common opponent which luffy has been luffy has won.

Smokers weakness fire him and ace fought to a draw. So with sanji fire kick makes it sanji = smoker which means sanji > luffy > zoro. Since luffy can't beat smoker zoro can't win either. So niether of them can beat sanji. This is your theory that im using by the way. Also Ao Joki ICe powers have to be weak to fire so once again based on your logic sanji would be able to beat luffy and zoro because he can beat the other dudes.

Phenomenol

@MonkeyDMalcolm:

It was still luffy > croc in the end. Even if zoro finds croc weakness he wouldn't have been able to exploit it like luffy and probally would have ended up just like robin. Your saying 6=6 = fighting ability zoro= luffy zoro and luffy has had a common opponent which luffy has been luffy has won.

So you are saying that Zoro's swords dipped in water would not "exploit" Crocodile's weakness? Zoro would kill Crcodile FASTER than Luffy did if that had happened. Lets not forget about the new technique that Zoro had in the Alabasta arc the "Breath!" Zoro would have killed Croc. Zoro and Luffy for all intents and purposes are equal in combat.

Smokers weakness fire him and ace fought to a draw. So with sanji fire kick makes it sanji = smoker which means sanji > luffy > zoro. Since luffy can't beat smoker zoro can't win either. So niether of them can beat sanji. This is your theory that im using by the way. Also Ao Joki ICe powers have to be weak to fire so once again based on your logic sanji would be able to beat luffy and zoro because he can beat the other dudes.

I don't get the logic of this post? Ace's Fire powers are completely different from Sanji's Heat Leg! Ace is on a different level from Sanji and So is Smoker. You can NOT compare characters like that.

AlmostLegendary

@Phenomenol:

So you are saying that Zoro's swords dipped in water would not "exploit" Crocodile's weakness? Zoro would kill Crcodile FASTER than Luffy did if that had happened. Lets not forget about the new technique that Zoro had in the Alabasta arc the "Breath!" Zoro would have killed Croc. Zoro and Luffy for all intents and purposes are equal in combat.

I don't get the logic of this post? Ace's Fire powers are completely different from Sanji's Heat Leg! Ace is on a different level from Sanji and So is Smoker. You can NOT compare characters like that.

I can't compare characters like that but zoro can dip his sword into water and beable to defeat crocodile. I totally understand what you are saying. If you don't get it i was simply talking about the power of fire. Why it would be a draw.

wolfwood

eh no they fought to a draw cause they are both logias consisting of fire and smoke and thus has no way to harm each other, smokers is not damaged by fire in the least.

and about Aokiji just plain no he buttraped all of the top tiers at once without breaking a sweat showing just how many leagues above them he was and just cause Sanjis shoes burns and he has a way to deal damage to him that hes now suddenly superior to him ?

AlmostLegendary

OOK i misunderstood what ace had said then.

All i was saying with the Ao Joki thing is just because you know a DF user weakness and exploit it doesn't mean you will be able to win.

Phenomnal they are no power levels in OP.

Phenomenol

@MonkeyDMalcolm:

Phenomnal they are no power levels in OP.

Oh…I don't know......How about bounties and douriki?! These are things that meansure strength.

Final End

Sigh..

Yea,you know Im going to take your rant apart.

I know this sounds harsh, and I can expect some angry retaliations, but..

Harsh?…...

Plain denial isn't going to convince anyone, you know? It's plain as daylight the result of this debate.

I know, why cant you people agree that they are equals? Its sated in the data book.

Posting things like " Hah my friend here/I just owned you!" isn't going to work the way you want it to because: 1. you didn't own anybody, you just .. well.. didn't make yourself look too clever in front of anyone, because whatever you said was really open to interpretation and 2. you're just going to provoke a counter-argument

Well if you want to debate and forget all the simple things in life like 6 = 6, then your free 2 interpret what ever you want?

Ok, how about this:

Is it from Oda?

Why don't we all agree that Luffy and Zoro are roughly equal, and leave it at that?

Whats wrong with them being equals?

We don't bother if anyone is marginally stronger, or if they are exactly equal, alright? Just say that we all have different interpretations of the Red Data book chart and what transpired throughout the manga.

6 = 6….....Strength = fighting style, (Whitebeard nuff said)
But if you want to think that luffy and Zoro can bench press the same, go a head.

Just so you know, no, no one convinced anyone. I just thought a peaceful resolution, instead of flame-war ending with a closure of this thread, would be better. And if you really want to know, its one thing to shut people up with really sound arguments, and another to just tire people out of trying to get simple statements through just by being in denial. Some of us are really feeling the effects of "talking to a wall", i guess.

Well if you cant defeat a simple statement like 6 = 6, or info from the Red Data Book or info from the manga then…...your doing the right thing by being in denial.

ONEinchPUNCH

MonkeyDMalcom you are so misinformed that arguing eith you would judt be a waste of time.

Gaiyae

What about Nico Robin?!

In Sky Pia it was stated that althought Nico Robin could clone alot of here arms, she isnt really physically strong. And going with you, it would mean that she should be really strong even without her ability. She was able to take a Zoan down in Allabastia. A Zoans with probably alot more power than that she would have without her power. And wasn't zoro stopped at that same arc by Nico Robin's power…?

And what about the fight between Franky and Luffy? Luffy wasn't really winning it..

And Mermans are stated to be 10 times stronger then normal humans. Yet Usopp manages to win from one of them. So your implying that Usopp is 10 times stronger then a normal human?!

And what about Foxy.. he would be seriously weak without his power.. Still he had a good fight with Luffy.

And what about Alivida's power.. you know she doesn't have to be physically strong to deliver a thought fight.

And another thing.. what if Nami didnt use her smarts in battle? she would have lost.. and you know it! And can you give me any proof of Nami having alot fighting power without her Climatact? And do you think she would've won without her Climatact? Or are you just saying that her powerlevel auto increases with her Climatact?

And a complete differerent question to OIP:
Do you think that the strongest Sharpshooter on the Grandline would be alot weaker then the strongest swordsman on the Grandline...?

Phenomenol

This post is deleted!

ONEinchPUNCH

@Gaiyae:

What about Nico Robin?!

In Sky Pia it was stated that althought Nico Robin could clone alot of here arms, she isnt really physically strong. And going with you, it would mean that she should be really strong even without her ability.

What garbage is this? I've specifically stated 3 to 4 times that removing a DF from a user would lower their fighting ability. So if Robin lost hers, her fighting ability would go down.

She was able to take a Zoan down in Allabastia. A Zoans with probably alot more power than that she would have without her power. And wasn't zoro stopped at that same arc by Nico Robin's power…?

You're mixing up power with fighting ability.

And what about the fight between Franky and Luffy? Luffy wasn't really winning it..

That wasn't a serious fight, if you're using that it shows you're pretty desparate

And Mermans are stated to be 10 times stronger then normal humans. Yet Usopp manages to win from one of them. So your implying that Usopp is 10 times stronger then a normal human?!

No if you could take the time to read my post you'd see I'm saying usopp is the better fighter, therefore having the higher fighting ability.

And what about Foxy.. he would be seriously weak without his power.. Still he had a good fight with Luffy.

What's this trying to prove? That when you lose your DF your fighting ability goes down, like I keep telling you lot.

And what about Alivida's power.. you know she doesn't have to be physically strong to deliver a thought fight.

When will you lot learn strength in manga isn't how much you can lift, it's how good a fighter you are. Alvidas power increases her fighting ability.

And another thing.. what if Nami didnt use her smarts in battle? she would have lost.. and you know it! And can you give me any proof of Nami having alot fighting power without her Climatact? And do you think she would've won without her Climatact? Or are you just saying that her powerlevel auto increases with her Climatact?

Anything nami does is part of her fighting ability, if you were to take her climatact her fighting ability would decrease.

And a complete differerent question to OIP:
Do you think that the strongest Sharpshooter on the Grandline would be alot weaker then the strongest swordsman on the Grandline…?

I think whoever has the higher fighting ability would win since neither have a DF risking having there's lowered by having their weakness exposed.

Try reading stuff before you claim strength is how much someone can lift.

Originally Posted by ONEinchPUNCH
I've explained this before it isn't something new, in all shounen strength is fighting ability. Whitebeard was introduced at basically the same time as the redbook (just after alabasta) and he has strongest (strength) in his title. We then get strength in the data book, this is no coincidence it's Oda following basic shounen law.

It is a shounen manga you can't expect him to remove all shounen basic laws from it.

The manga also support them being equal with the whiskey peak fight, constant strength comparisons and zoro fighting jabura and kaku at the same time. Also the fact asura has been proven to be a state (like gear2) and the move used in it, dismissed amanedachi and killed kaku in the space of a second.

Luffy and zoro are always potrayed equal through the manga, the data book and whitebeard isn't mere coincidence.

Archtyrant

Sigh..

So "strength is everything"?

Then you've totally misunderstood what Oda intended.

Quote Sanji: "I'll do what you can't do, and you'll do what I can't do".

The way the 3 of you are arguing now, are totally sounding like Bellamy and his lackeys.

Give it up. Just because you're answering statement for statement, just because you're reiterating the same thing over and over, doesn't mean you're gonna convince anyone. Believe me, most, if not all, of the people who visit this thread with a neutral stand point is going to disagree with you.

And, no, there's nothing wrong with them being equal. But the way you're going about it.. we all can see it's just to save your own face. We all can see that, the way Oda wrote his story, what we can infer from it is that Luffy's higher ambitions will eventually bring him to a greater level than anyone. Higher than Ace, higher than Whitebeard, maybe even surpassing Gol D. Roger. You're really in denial if you're saying that you can't see this point.

And if you really wanna get technical, show where it was ever stated that Luffy had equal fighting ability to Zoro. The chart only said "strength", and the part about "strength = fighting ability" is totally inference on your part. From what we've seen in many instances in the manga, strength has been overcome with wit, determination and/or resolve. You can't just disclaim manga material with words like "they don't count", or "usopp/nami beat the guy/gal, so he/she must be stronger than the latter".

I won't claim to be Oda, nor will I put words in his mouth, but the impression i got from him is that: in a fight, strength just isn't everything. If you were under the impression that One Piece was a story about the "survival of the fittest", that the strongest will always be the victor.. then I do not know what to say anymore. If One Piece was all about strength, then you'd be right all along, that since Luffy and Zoro had equal strength ("6"), then they must be equal. If you like to believe it that way then it's fine by me and the most of us. Then just don't bother trying to convince us anymore that Luffy and Zoro are equal from your perspective, because I believe that most of us don't have that same notion as you do.

Gaiyae

@Archtyrant:

Sigh..

So "strength is everything"?

Then you've totally misunderstood what Oda intended.

Quote Sanji: "I'll do what you can't do, and you'll do what I can't do".

The way the 3 of you are arguing now, are totally sounding like Bellamy and his lackeys.

Give it up. Just because you're answering statement for statement, just because you're reiterating the same thing over and over, doesn't mean you're gonna convince anyone. Believe me, most, if not all, of the people who visit this thread with a neutral stand point is going to disagree with you.

And, no, there's nothing wrong with them being equal. But the way you're going about it.. we all can see it's just to save your own face. We all can see that, the way Oda wrote his story, what we can infer from it is that Luffy's higher ambitions will eventually bring him to a greater level than anyone. Higher than Ace, higher than Whitebeard, maybe even surpassing Gol D. Roger. You're really in denial if you're saying that you can't see this point.

And if you really wanna get technical, show where it was ever stated that Luffy had equal fighting ability to Zoro. The chart only said "strength", and the part about "strength = fighting ability" is totally inference on your part. From what we've seen in many instances in the manga, strength has been overcome with wit, determination and/or resolve. You can't just disclaim manga material with words like "they don't count", or "usopp/nami beat the guy/gal, so he/she must be stronger than the latter".

I won't claim to be Oda, nor will I put words in his mouth, but the impression i got from him is that: in a fight, strength just isn't everything. If you were under the impression that One Piece was a story about the "survival of the fittest", that the strongest will always be the victor.. then I do not know what to say anymore. If One Piece was all about strength, then you'd be right all along, that since Luffy and Zoro had equal strength ("6"), then they must be equal. If you like to believe it that way then it's fine by me and the most of us. Then just don't bother trying to convince us anymore that Luffy and Zoro are equal from your perspective, because I believe that most of us don't have that same notion as you do.

:wub: Im in love with this post

I can't agree more..

I got a little caried away when people tell things like:
Usopp and Nami battles are just jokes… i like all SH's
and i still believe there all equel in some way

I just dont like people when people compare them.
I dont think you really can compare them.. :ninja:

ONEinchPUNCH

@Archtyrant:

Sigh..

So "strength is everything"?

Then you've totally misunderstood what Oda intended.

Quote Sanji: "I'll do what you can't do, and you'll do what I can't do".

The way the 3 of you are arguing now, are totally sounding like Bellamy and his lackeys.

Give it up. Just because you're answering statement for statement, just because you're reiterating the same thing over and over, doesn't mean you're gonna convince anyone. Believe me, most, if not all, of the people who visit this thread with a neutral stand point is going to disagree with you.

And, no, there's nothing wrong with them being equal. But the way you're going about it.. we all can see it's just to save your own face. We all can see that, the way Oda wrote his story, what we can infer from it is that Luffy's higher ambitions will eventually bring him to a greater level than anyone. Higher than Ace, higher than Whitebeard, maybe even surpassing Gol D. Roger. You're really in denial if you're saying that you can't see this point.

And if you really wanna get technical, show where it was ever stated that Luffy had equal fighting ability to Zoro. The chart only said "strength", and the part about "strength = fighting ability" is totally inference on your part. From what we've seen in many instances in the manga, strength has been overcome with wit, determination and/or resolve. You can't just disclaim manga material with words like "they don't count", or "usopp/nami beat the guy/gal, so he/she must be stronger than the latter".

I won't claim to be Oda, nor will I put words in his mouth, but the impression i got from him is that: in a fight, strength just isn't everything. If you were under the impression that One Piece was a story about the "survival of the fittest", that the strongest will always be the victor.. then I do not know what to say anymore. If One Piece was all about strength, then you'd be right all along, that since Luffy and Zoro had equal strength ("6"), then they must be equal. If you like to believe it that way then it's fine by me and the most of us. Then just don't bother trying to convince us anymore that Luffy and Zoro are equal from your perspective, because I believe that most of us don't have that same notion as you do.

Yawn Your rants are so boring you keep thinking strength is how much someone can lift. Whitebeard's title and the data book were released at almost the same time (after alabasta) and they both say strength. That is no coincidence this is a shounen manga and it's proven it so many times.

gamistras

@Archtyrant:

Sigh..

So "strength is everything"?

Then you've totally misunderstood what Oda intended.

Quote Sanji: "I'll do what you can't do, and you'll do what I can't do".

The way the 3 of you are arguing now, are totally sounding like Bellamy and his lackeys.

Give it up. Just because you're answering statement for statement, just because you're reiterating the same thing over and over, doesn't mean you're gonna convince anyone. Believe me, most, if not all, of the people who visit this thread with a neutral stand point is going to disagree with you.

And, no, there's nothing wrong with them being equal. But the way you're going about it.. we all can see it's just to save your own face. We all can see that, the way Oda wrote his story, what we can infer from it is that Luffy's higher ambitions will eventually bring him to a greater level than anyone. Higher than Ace, higher than Whitebeard, maybe even surpassing Gol D. Roger. You're really in denial if you're saying that you can't see this point.

And if you really wanna get technical, show where it was ever stated that Luffy had equal fighting ability to Zoro. The chart only said "strength", and the part about "strength = fighting ability" is totally inference on your part. From what we've seen in many instances in the manga, strength has been overcome with wit, determination and/or resolve. You can't just disclaim manga material with words like "they don't count", or "usopp/nami beat the guy/gal, so he/she must be stronger than the latter".

I won't claim to be Oda, nor will I put words in his mouth, but the impression i got from him is that: in a fight, strength just isn't everything. If you were under the impression that One Piece was a story about the "survival of the fittest", that the strongest will always be the victor.. then I do not know what to say anymore. If One Piece was all about strength, then you'd be right all along, that since Luffy and Zoro had equal strength ("6"), then they must be equal. If you like to believe it that way then it's fine by me and the most of us. Then just don't bother trying to convince us anymore that Luffy and Zoro are equal from your perspective, because I believe that most of us don't have that same notion as you do.

maybe strenght doesn't count for you but zoro's dexterity was bigger than luffy's so it is easy to see they are equal

if there weren't fights in one piece believe me nobody would watch it

zoro must fight to become the best,luffy too and the crew must conquer GL (travel and pass every enemy and obstacle)

i too believe one piece is special and it is different from DB that strenght is all that counts or naruto or bleach that everything is secondary to power

one piece too is all about fights but i think power or strenght comes second after the people's dreams and strugle to protect their nakama but the fights are also very important and those things above are what gives them a reason to fight

so again if there weren't any fights in one piece nobody would read it,including me,you and almost everyone here (at least so fanatically and for the guys they wouldn't read it at all)

@ONEinchPUNCH:

Yawn Your rants are so boring you keep thinking strength is how much someone can lift. Whitebeard's title and the data book were released at almost the same time (after alabasta) and they both say strength. That is no coincidence this is a shounen manga and it's proven it so many times.

QFT,strenght isn't physical strenght or muscle condition,it is what wins the fights

ONEinchPUNCH

@gamistras:

QFT,strenght isn't physical strenght or muscle condition,it is what wins the fights

Do you even read posts?

Whitebeard was introduced with the "worlds STRONGEST(STRENGTH) MAN" title, he is the best fighter in OP and the only guy to equal Roger.

Then at the same time the red data book is released which shows strength, so if strength meant how much whitebeard could lift. He would just be some strong man which is false, this proves it means fighting ability.

Please do yourself a favour and read my post with a little bit of thought bbefore you answer.

gamistras

@ONEinchPUNCH:

Do you even read posts?

Whitebeard was introduced with the "worlds STRONGEST(STRENGTH) MAN" title, he is the best fighter in OP and the only guy to equal Roger.

Then at the same time the red data book is released which shows strength, so if strength meant how much whitebeard could lift. He would just be some strong man which is false, this proves it means fighting ability.

Please do yourself a favour and read my post with a little bit of thought bbefore you answer.

lol
i think you and me are saying the same things but you can't understand it!

i agree with what you said

read my post again:
QFT,strenght isn't physical strenght or muscle condition,it is what wins the fights

my meaning of strenght in that post is to show archytrant he was wrong and WB may be able to lift more weight than anyone since he is the strongest but this isn't all his title show us,his title means he would win every one in a fight

strenght for me is WHAT WINS THE FIGHTS,NOR POWER (you say it strenght but i say it power) ,NOR SPEED,NOR DEXTERITY BUT ALL OF THEM TOGETHER

what you say strenght and it is truly stated as strength in the data book i say it power.for me strenght is everything the character has,from determination to physical power and muscle condition so we are saying the same thing

i think you owe me a smilie!

ONEinchPUNCH

@gamistras:

lol
i think you and me are saying the same things but you can't understand it!

i agree with what you said

read my post again:
QFT,strenght isn't physical strenght or muscle condition,it is what wins the fights

Yeah that can be interpreted in two ways, sorry about that.

my meaning of strenght in that post is to show archytrant he was wrong and WB may be able to lift more weight than anyone since he is the strongest but strenght is WHAT WINS THE FIGHTS,NOR POWER (you say it strenght but i say it power) ,NOR SPEED,NOR DEXTERITY BUT ALL OF THEM TOGETHER

Right a character's strength is his fighting ability anything they have be it wits or brawn will be used. When people argue on has more DEX than the other it just depends on how you fight. It is quite natural for a swordsman to need more DEX, while a brawler doesn't need as much.

what you say strenght in the datat book i say it power and for me strenght is everything the character has,from determination to physical power and miuscle condition

i think you owe me a smilie!

Guess I do

gamistras

@ONEinchPUNCH:

Yeah that can be interpreted in two ways, sorry about that.

Right a character's strength is his fighting ability anything they have be it wits or brawn will be used. When people argue on has more DEX than the other it just depends on how you fight. It is quite natural for a swordsman to need more DEX, while a brawler doesn't need as much.

Guess I do

you're one hell of a guy

also go check your PMs

SabZ

OIP just think for a minute.

If we had a quote in the manga that said "OMG they are equal!" or if Zoro and Luffy faught to the finish and were equal, I couldn't create any theory against Luffy = Zoro.

Now, the chart hasn't FULLY clarified it. I've already explained how 6 could be a sixth of the SH PL, therefore it may not be a fixed number. Oda may have used maths to create bounderies, and within each boundery, Oda may have only just added Zoro into 6, and Luffy could have easily gotten in.

Don't say it's a crazy theory, because you haven't proved to me at all that Oda hasn't done what I have just explained, and that it isn't true. Did Oda go up to you and say that he did no maths? Did he explain in the chart that he used it to prove Luffy = Zoro?

In my view, if Oda says nothing about using or not using maths, we can only speculate. Please, if he has said something like "I used the chart to prove them equal" or "6 isn't a sixth of a PL, it's a fix number so in my chart the two fixed numbers are equal" then correct me. He hasn't said anything about his true intentions behind the chart… so stop acting as if the chart is the answer to the question.

I wonder if you'll successfully counter everything I've just wrote, without the same old thing.

ONEinchPUNCH

@$abZ:

OIP just think for a minute.

If we had a quote in the manga that said "OMG they are equal!" or if Zoro and Luffy faught to the finish and were equal, I couldn't create any theory against Luffy = Zoro.

Actions speak louder than words, whiskey peak. Both luffy and zoro have gotten stronger and both have a gear 2, they are still equal.

Now, the chart hasn't FULLY clarified it. I've already explained how 6 could be a sixth of the SH PL, therefore it may not be a fixed number. Oda may have used maths to create bounderies, and within each boundery, Oda may have only just added Zoro into 6, and Luffy could have easily gotten in.

Both luffy and zoro's bars reach the line of the chart meaning they cannot go any further. If one is a worse 6 than the other why are they both at max?

Don't say it's a crazy theory, because you haven't proved to me at all that Oda hasn't done what I have just explained, and that it isn't true. Did Oda go up to you and say that he did no maths? Did he explain in the chart that he used it to prove Luffy = Zoro?

6 maxes the charts out even though I didn't need to, I've just proven yours wrong.

In my view, if Oda says nothing about using or not using maths, we can only speculate. Please, if he has said something like "I used the chart to prove them equal" or "6 isn't a sixth of a PL, it's a fix number so in my chart the two fixed numbers are equal" then correct me. He hasn't said anything about his true intentions behind the chart… so stop acting as if the chart is the answer to the question.

It's a shounen manga, he released the book when he introduced whitebeard, he made them have an equal fight so whether he intended to or not, it's shown they are equal.

I wonder if you'll successfully counter everything I've just wrote, without the same old thing.

Well I just did, even though it wasn't needed since all you have to do is read the red book

SabZ

@ONEinchPUNCH:

Actions speak louder than words, whiskey peak. Both luffy and zoro have gotten stronger and both have a gear 2, they are still equal.

Whiskey Peak fight didn't finish, that proof is NOT good enough. We've seen plenty of fights in OP change around deeper into them. Luffy and Zoro have both gotten stronger… but you're speculating when you say they're still equal. Please explain where it is stated that they are equal at this very minute.

@ONEinchPUNCH:

Both luffy and zoro's bars reach the line of the chart meaning they cannot go any further. If one is a worse 6 than the other why are they both at max?

Did Oda tell you this? Did he say he didn't do maths? As I said, 6 could be a sixth of the SH PL. Prove to me that it isn't…

@ONEinchPUNCH:

6 maxes the charts out even though I didn't need to, I've just proven yours wrong.

Oda said nothing about 6 being a fixed number. Show me where he says it and I will accept it. You're speculating that 6 isn't a sixth… because Oda hasn't said anything about it.

@ONEinchPUNCH:

It's a shounen manga, he released the book when he introduced whitebeard, he made them have an equal fight so whether he intended to or not, it's shown they are equal.

The fight didn't finish… as I have said above... and actions don't always speak luder than words. Only sometimes... you should know that.

@ONEinchPUNCH:

Well I just did, even though it wasn't needed since all you have to do is read the red book

No you didn't… my question was to prove to me that Oda hadn't made 6 a sixth of the SH PL, and made it a fixed number.

Try Again.

AD-HD Pirate

Both luffy and zoro have gotten stronger and both have a gear 2, they are still equal.

Two things:
1: Asura is way more different move than gear 2. In Asura, Zoro just get more swords. Nothing more. We don't even know is it a state or not.
2. Luffy have gear 3 also.

AlmostLegendary

@Phenomenol:

Oh…I don't know......How about bounties and douriki?! These are things that meansure strength.

bounties= crime agaisnt the goverment dragon= most wanted not worlds strongest

according to OiP duoriki= athletics

if douriki= power how come sanji was able to beat jyabura

sanji= 20 douriki
jyabura= 1700+

ONEinchPUNCH

@$abZ:

Whiskey Peak fight didn't finish, that proof is NOT good enough. We've seen plenty of fights in OP change around deeper into them. Luffy and Zoro have both gotten stronger… but you're speculating when you say they're still equal. Please explain where it is stated that they are equal at this very minute.

The red book states they are equal in strength and neither has done anything to show superiority over the other. Therefore they are still equal only the yellow book can change this, but you like to #$^% them don't you?

Did Oda tell you this? Did he say he didn't do maths? As I said, 6 could be a sixth of the SH PL. Prove to me that it isn't…

Yes Oda told everyone this by drawing both luffy and zoros bar to the maximum length the chart supports. If it was like you said zoros bar would be slightly lower, but it isn't.

Oda said nothing about 6 being a fixed number. Show me where he says it and I will accept it. You're speculating that 6 isn't a sixth… because Oda hasn't said anything about it.

They both MAX out the chart they can't be any higher, If you can't understand 6=6, do you understand same chart MAX equals same chart MAX?

The fight didn't finish… as I have said above... and actions don't always speak luder than words. Only sometimes... you should know that.

Each time you ignore the fact both used their most powerful attacks at the beginniing of the fight. They were equal whether it continued further doesn't matter since it is fact, they're most powerful moves are equal.

No you didn't… my question was to prove to me that Oda hadn't made 6 a sixth of the SH PL, and made it a fixed number.

Same chart MAX equals Same chart MAX.

Try Again.

Try not using a weak argument

@MonkeyDMalcolm:

bounties= crime agaisnt the goverment dragon= most wanted not worlds strongest

according to OiP duoriki= athletics

if douriki= power how come sanji was able to beat jyabura

sanji= 20 douriki
jyabura= 1700+

hahaha you are the most misinformed person I have ever met!!!