It annoys me to no end seeing new anime/manga fans bash Dragon Ball. I don't have a problem with people not liking Dragon Ball, but it's incredibly obvious when someone is hating on it for no reason other then it being Dragon Ball.
Will OP become like DBZ
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Actually, I think the problem wasn't that Toriyama was more interested in the fights but that that was the easiest thing to do. The fans liked the fights and they were easy, so he put in a lot of fights. After the Freeza saga Toriyama obviously started getting a ltitle tired of Dragonball. You can tell because the Freeza saga honestly has just as much adventure as the previous Dragonball arcs did, on Namek, with a fair share of fights but they didn't really culminate untill the Ginyu Force arrived.
You can also tell that Toriyama started getting tired when arcs stopped focusing around the Dragonballs. All arcs prior to Cell focused on Dragonballs. The Freeza arc was obviously supposed to be the last one, considering the Namek dragonballs were, at that point, "super dragonballs", the true dragonballs and the last ones they would need to collect on their adventures.
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I certainly HOPE that OP will never become like DBZ, but in the enies lobby arc there were some elements that really worried me:
1. Douriki: "wow, I have 4000 Douriki!
"Haha, I have 40000!"
"Mohahaha, I have 400000!"
and so on…2. Gears: Luffy adapting the new gears might just be like the Super Saiyins, if his next opponent is stronger and he evolves even more gears then OP is screwed.
But I don't think that'll happen. OP is too good.
and as for Pell surviving the bomb blast, it's just like Pagaya from Skypia. He sacrificed himself to save his daughter but in the end of the arc he's there to wave at the straw-hats? wtf?
The things we don't agree with in OP we'll simply have to edit out in our own version or ignore.
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@Srednar:
2. Gears: Luffy adapting the new gears might just be like the Super Saiyins, if his next opponent is stronger and he evolves even more gears then OP is screwed.
I think the main problem people have with the gears is the numbering scheme. If not for it, I'm sure everybody would be perfectly happy with the explanation Lucci gives about them (increased bloodflow, stronger, faster yadda yadda).
If anything it's more of a kaio ken than a SSJ, and it's only him using it.Plus, Luffy's actual power vastly fluctuates in relation to his speed while swapping gears. Gear 3 is a pretty slow form, despite it having massive power.
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I think you don't can compare OP with DBZ. DBZ was just all about fighting, and for me it ruined all the good things that the original had. The original Dragonball wasn't all about strength, and it had more adventure. In DBZ suddenly Goku and Picollo became aliens.. and for me that was the main reason i hated it. Dragonball had alot Fantasy elements, in dbz it changed into Sci-Fi. I mean come on… what if they would make a new LoTR and Frodo and the Elfs suddenly turns out to be allien , because they look a little different. I think ODA was more inspired by the original series.. And i think ODA mentioned somewhere that the Original Tao Bai Bai was one of his favorite characters.
And if you look at it.. One Piece looks way more like Dragonball then DBZ. -
I think you don't can compare OP with DBZ. DBZ was just all about fighting, and for me it ruined all the good things that the original had. The original Dragonball wasn't all about strength, and it had more adventure. In DBZ suddenly Goku and Picolla became aliens.. and for me that was the main reason i hated it. Dragonball had alot Fantasy elements, in dbz it changed into Sci-Fi. I mean come on… what if they would make a new LoTR and Frodo and the Elfs suddenly turns out to be allien , because they look a little different. I think ODA was more inspired by the original series.. And i think ODA mentioned somewhere that the Original Tao Bai Bai was one of his favorite characters.
And if you look at it.. One Piece looks way more like Dragonball then DBZ.The Elves WERE aliens, in a sense. they came from the lands of the Valar, across the sea. In fact, following the end of "Return of the King", most of them migrated back across the ocean. Frodo and Bilbo went with them.
And Gandalf makes a very straightforward comment that the Hobbits were disappearing; their feet were losing hair and becoming smaller, like human feet. They were also becoming taller.
Anyway, I'm glad that despite jerks like Mugiwara Maximus and Lpzie, people can discuss this in a civil manner. Continue on.
But yes, Dragonball and One Piece share SOME similarities, and both are clearly part of the Shonen Formula. That's all that needs to be said.
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Well yes they were aliens in the sense they werent originally from that land but no they are not aliens in the way that Gaiyae was talking about which is from outer space.
And of course DB and OP share similarities. Theyre both from the same genre. Right now Id say there are two other major mangas in the same genre as OP: Bleach and Naruto. Now are they the same? Hell no. But they all share shounen characteristics. -
@Fire Fist:
The Elves WERE aliens, in a sense. they came from the lands of the Valar, across the sea. In fact, following the end of "Return of the King", most of them migrated back across the ocean. Frodo and Bilbo went with them.
And Gandalf makes a very straightforward comment that the Hobbits were disappearing; their feet were losing hair and becoming smaller, like human feet. They were also becoming taller.
Anyway, I'm glad that despite jerks like Mugiwara Maximus and Lpzie, people can discuss this in a civil manner. Continue on.
But yes, Dragonball and One Piece share SOME similarities, and both are clearly part of the Shonen Formula. That's all that needs to be said.
Yes, in a sense they where. But not like those Sci-Fi aliens in DBZ. Could you imagine that the origins of Devil Fruits came from some planet. And what if the whole Will of D thing turns about to be the Will of planet Dillenius XI :P .
..I hope you get my drift ;)
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My main annoyance with Dragon Ball is the sheer increase in power. King Piccolo was meant to be an evil demon of incredible power, and at the time he was. But as the series progressed, the power increase was too much. It made all the previous foes look like childs play. I mean, after all of the effort to defeat Frieza on Namek, Trunks kills him with one slash of his sword.
You don't see that in One Piece. Most of the villans can hold their own against others past East Blue; and that's debatable as well as some think Krieg and Arlong could still keep up. In fact, the only pushover was Bellamy.
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You don't see that in One Piece. Most of the villans can hold their own against others past East Blue; and that's debatable as well as some think Krieg and Arlong could still keep up. In fact, the only pushover was Bellamy.
I agree with you, except that Gear 2 kind of ruined that. Now it seems as any battle with previous villains would be pointless… A lot of people seem to think that Luffy's gears are really cool, but to me they are the thing that will ruin OP.
And I hope we never hear of Dourikis again. Although, there already was a rating system before that, namely the bounties, which could be a bit off: In East Blue, they first fight one with 15,000,000, then 16,000,000, then 17,000,000... Anyone see a pattern?
And what really disappointed me is that Roshio had a 42,000,000 bounty. I suppose that bounties in the Grand Line are higher than in East Blue, which explains Foxy, and Bellamys might have been high due to his former relations with Donquixote. But no way in hell can I agree to Roshio's bounty.
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@Srednar:
I agree with you, except that Gear 2 kind of ruined that. Now it seems as any battle with previous villains would be pointless… A lot of people seem to think that Luffy's gears are really cool, but to me they are the thing that will ruin OP.
And I hope we never hear of Dourikis again. Although, there already was a rating system before that, namely the bounties, which could be a bit off: In East Blue, they first fight one with 15,000,000, then 16,000,000, then 17,000,000... Anyone see a pattern?
And what really disappointed me is that Roshio had a 42,000,000 bounty. I suppose that bounties in the Grand Line are higher than in East Blue, which explains Foxy, and Bellamys might have been high due to his former relations with Donquixote. But no way in hell can I agree to Roshio's bounty.
I too am not happy with the Gears. Gear 3 is fine, as it's slow and has a negative impact afterwards (being chibi). Gear 2 shortens Luffy's life. Now, it may just be me, but I don't think Luffy is just going to buckle down one day from using too much Gear 2 and that'll be the end. They're just too powerful; we'll end up seeing stronger foes to combat Gear 2… Oh no, it's Dragon Ball Z all over! (slight exaggeration).
I think Oda noticed the problems with the Douriki situation though. I don't think he'll mention it again, otherwise I think Fukurou would of measured some of the Strawhats.
(Can't turn underline off for some reason….)
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One Piece characters have a lot of unique powers and abilities. I think Douriki was just another one of those, nothing that could be considered a mainstay or anything… and it's easy to forget that even in Dragon Ball, the power levels were around for a relatively short time. Just the Saiyan and Frieza sagas (and one reading at the beginning of Cell, but yeah).
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@Dr.:
One Piece characters have a lot of unique powers and abilities. I think Douriki was just another one of those, nothing that could be considered a mainstay or anything… and it's easy to forget that even in Dragon Ball, the power levels were around for a relatively short time. Just the Saiyan and Frieza sagas (and one reading at the beginning of Cell, but yeah).
Although they were around for a short time, there was quite a heavy emphasis on them. Nearly all the opponents in the Namek saga were given levels, and even most of the good guys got ratings during the Saiyan arc. Also, Douriki was only shown once, whilst it was a continous element throughout those 2 arcs. The reason why I think it wrecked Dragon Ball is simple: They ascended way too fast. I mean, Goku started off with around 400 . He got more then 375000 times stronger by the end of Frieza. That's crazy.
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Although they were around for a short time, there was quite a heavy emphasis on them. Nearly all the opponents in the Namek saga were given levels, and even most of the good guys got ratings during the Saiyan arc. Also, Douriki was only shown once, whilst it was a continous element throughout those 2 arcs. The reason why I think it wrecked Dragon Ball is simple: They ascended way too fast. I mean, Goku started off with around 400 . He got more then 375000 times stronger by the end of Frieza. That's crazy.
Ontop of that, if someone had a power level significantly higher then someone else then that person was unbeatable to them. I'm pretty sure someone else posted that douriki was just a measure of physical strength (based on an average soldiers) and that the chance of nami being significantly higher than normal is low and she beat kalifa who was classified "super human" by Luchi and Spandam.
Another reason why I am getting discouraged with Bleach, and the same reason I was discouraged with DBZ, I loved those series but when people need to achieve a goal and MUST do it through fighting AND all they strive for is power and to get stronger in order to win the fight, the story seems to lose some human aspect. While Luffy is striving to get stronger in order to protect his friends and Zoro is striving to get stronger as his goal, and Sanji might be striving to get stronger in order to impress the girls, short term fights are not dependant on getting stronger in the short amount of time between their first encounter and their second; Yes, that means I don't think Luffy is any stronger between his and Luchi's meeting at W7 and their meeting at EL.
Unless Oda starts to do that (which I pray he doesn't) then I don't think One Piece will ever become DBZ.
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I think the biggest problem that people brings towards the Gears is that they think its some super upgrade that everyone and anyone can do like what happened with Super Saiyans. For starters, the only person that can do the Gears is someone who is a rubber person…hence, Luffy. Secondly, its a natural evolution of Luffy's power as created by him to get past an immense obstacles. When he tried with his previous skill set against Ao Kiji, he got nowhere, forcing him to continue developing his rubber abilities to something for greater enemies on the Grand Line starting with Lucci and CP9. Maybe in a way its like Goku learning Kaio-Ken...yet in that case it was more of the "only the super strong shonen hero can learn it" as opposed to this being a "specific evolution of power for those who use rubber". And finally, there are just too many disadvantages compared to the advantages for both Gears: Gear 2 is speed without the power, Gear 3 is just power with a lack of speed and a problematic after-effect. If Luffy develops more Gears, it would probably be more creative usage of his rubber powers instead of just getting "even stronger".
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@Tokoro:
I think the biggest problem that people brings towards the Gears is that they think its some super upgrade that everyone and anyone can do like what happened with Super Saiyans. For starters, the only person that can do the Gears is someone who is a rubber person…hence, Luffy. Secondly, its a natural evolution of Luffy's power as created by him to get past an immense obstacles. When he tried with his previous skill set against Ao Kiji, he got nowhere, forcing him to continue developing his rubber abilities to something for greater enemies on the Grand Line starting with Lucci and CP9. Maybe in a way its like Goku learning Kaio-Ken...yet in that case it was more of the "only the super strong shonen hero can learn it" as opposed to this being a "specific evolution of power for those who use rubber". And finally, there are just too many disadvantages compared to the advantages for both Gears: Gear 2 is speed without the power, Gear 3 is just power with a lack of speed and a problematic after-effect. If Luffy develops more Gears, it would probably be more creative usage of his rubber powers instead of just getting "even stronger".
Just had to point out, Gear 2 makes him stronger as well, it's not just speed.
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Yes in a way, the latest episodes where very short in content. Like it was in DBZ.
DBZ: total 20 minutes, 2 minutes for last episodes, 2 minutes shouting, 2 minutes changing the earth layout and breaking mountains, 4 minutes repetitive fight scenes, 2 minutes what will happen next episode, 8 minutes real content.
OP: 3 minutes the opening, 1 minutes Gold Roger talking, 2 minutes last episode, about 15 minutes content. It was better in the past.
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Just had to point out, Gear 2 makes him stronger as well, it's not just speed.
Thanks for clearing that up. I always thought that Gear 2 was a sacrifice of strength for speed, yet giving off a similar impact due to the "many punches having the impact of one big one".
But basically, I think the truth is that this is Luffy's means of getting stronger as he goes further into the Grand Line. Unless there are other rubber men, no one else can do these Gears. And considering the behemoths most likely in the New World, he will need it, just like the other characters evolve either in their own combat skills (Zoro's swordsmanship, Sanji's kicking) or technological ability (Nami's Clima-Tact, Ussop's slingshots, most likely whatever Chopper uses to modify his own abilities or control his Monster Point).
Just as long as there isn't one "unifying battle energy" that they all access that only certain people hold to fight, then we're pretty much safe from the comparisons of ki/chakra/reiatsu and it comes down to combat ability and personal abilities.
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To address the guys disliking the DBZ "hate":
I dont hate dragonball, it was the first anime I watched. I simply dont like it because it lacked a purpose after the frieza saga. Unlike one piece and naruto where we can speculate on future occurances due to the goals, and actions of characters outside of fights. DBZ became centered around fights, and the only goal was beating the opponent. While you may liked DBZ, to others who arent fans, this is a big reason to dislike it, and hope that a series we all like(one piece) doesnt end up like it.
Bleach…..uhhhg. If there was a dbz the 2nd, this is it. Ive kinda put the series on hold due to the tedium. I dont want any other series I keep up with to end up like that.
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Saying Dragonball is only about "beating the bad guy" is like saying that One Piece is only about "beating the bad guy". Both of their respective stories are told in arcs which end with the main character fighting the strongest enemy of that respective arc.
Of course the main goal of Dragonball past the RR army arc was to save the world. How is this any better than the goal of One Piece, to become the "pirate king"? Luffy hasn't saved the world yet but he probably will, it's just that the enemies in One Piece have yet to reach a magnitude of a Freeza, Cell, or Buu. But they probably will soon enough.
And when you knock Dragonball for being too much fighting, almost all shonen manga are 50% or more fighting. You call One Piece "a great mix of adventure and fighting" but most of the time while they're adventuring they're fighting something or someone.
Take Enies Lobby. That was one, huge fight arc. Most of One Piece IS the fighting. For instance, only a few chapters into this new arc and the crew is about to fight their first enemy (cerberus).
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Take Enies Lobby. That was one, huge fight arc. Most of One Piece IS the fighting. For instance, only a few chapters into this new arc and the crew is about to fight their first enemy (cerberus).
The problem with Enies Lobby is that it was pretty much a culmination of the whole "Sea Train/World Government" arc. With all the buildup from the arrival at Water 7 on (maybe even from when they met AoKiji on), everything had to hit the fan…and Enies Lobby is where it did.
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OP gets you more involved with the characters more. I felt much more attached any OP character than any into DBZ. But then again, last time I watched DBZ was about 12.
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The worst thing about DBZ was, like mentioned above, the time of an episode…
e.g.
The planet Namek will explode in less than 2 minutes... Freeza and Goku fight... 6 episodes later... Namek explodes... WTFand everytime a fight became interesting they show us Bulma or someone else doing useless things...
That I love about OP... It's funny... each character has his own depths... and when they begin to fight they aren't stoped to show us something else...
But DB was my first manga and it will always be in my heart...
Future Trunks ruleZ
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The worst thing about DBZ was, like mentioned above, the time of an episode…
e.g.
The planet Namek will explode in less than 2 minutes... Freeza and Goku fight... 6 episodes later... Namek explodes... WTFand everytime a fight became interesting they show us Bulma or someone else doing useless things...
That I love about OP... It's funny... each character has his own depths... and when they begin to fight they aren't stoped to show us something else...
But DB was my first manga and it will always be in my heart...
Future Trunks ruleZ
That happens pretty much in OP too though, probaly not as bad though.
Eg. the Noro Noro beam with Foxy, Zoro says theres 8 seconds left and then between seconds, somehow Usopp gets to say a bunch of lines, convincing everyone to count down.
Same with the Alabasta bombing, the last 30seconds before the explosion was about half an episode too. But thats too be expected though.
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Is "time of an episode" really an applicable reason to complain considering this is the manga forum? I was pretty much assuming we were all talking about the dragonball manga here. In the manga, they almost never do that "oh hey goku and freeza are fighting here's bulma and a frog that you don't care about" thing. The reason they did that was so that they could sprinkle filler within each episode instead of going completely canon and then doing a couple filler arcs (they only had one filler arc ever).
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…I hope OP and DBZ stay WELL APART. DB was cool, DBZ reduced itself to battles, battles, battles, geese-like women and good characters turned to sidekicks. DBZ killed itelf in the end, and the anime GT series... is not worth commenting.
OP, on the other hand, has always given importance and a good strong personality to ALL its characters, even one-shots! Oda-sensei has a very personal style!
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The worst thing about DBZ was, like mentioned above, the time of an episode…
e.g.
The planet Namek will explode in less than 2 minutes... Freeza and Goku fight... 6 episodes later... Namek explodes... WTFCoughbombintheclocktowerinAlubarnacough
That's normal in a Shonen Manga. Five minutes becomes like two hours.
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@Fire Fist:
The Elves WERE aliens, in a sense. they came from the lands of the Valar, across the sea. In fact, following the end of "Return of the King", most of them migrated back across the ocean. Frodo and Bilbo went with them.
No, the elves were originally from Middle-earth (somewhere far to north-east if my memory serves me). In the early ages some of the elves crossed the sea to the lands of the Valar, while quite many (I think the majority) elves stayed behind in Middle-earth. Later some of the elves who had crossed (the Nolodor, including Galadriel) rebelled and moved back to Middle-earth. Also the orcs were supposedly originally elves.
I believe most elves in Middle-Earth are Grey Elves, Sindarin, who have never crossed the ocean or have any ancestors who had.
Legolas, Legolas father, Celeborn, Círdan (the guy who had the ring of fire before Gandalf) were all Sindarin from what I remember.