Chapter 1115: Pieces of a Continent

[Gizmo]

@King-Cannon While I haven’t been keeping a pulse on Egghead’s reception, I have seen a lot more people like Wano in the general public zeitgeist, at least when compared to the ratio in APForums.

[Zanze]

Egghead has been fun and unpredictable, while Wano sometimes felt like the story was going through the motions in my opinion.
However it is weirdly structured, it's incredibly long to be Just a set-up arc like Zou, but it's also too all over the place and unfocused to work well as a classic Thriller Bark-sized arc.
But also, it's still not over. I feel like Oda can still somehow stick the landing.

My biggest regret, aside from the crew not doing much, is the futuristic setting not amounting to much. It's a shame, I really wanted to see Oda play with sci-fi tropes.

[Chams 0]

My issue with Egghead was that Oda fumbled the ending of Wano so bad that he wanted to rush to the next island.
Koby’s escape, Cross Guild and Sabo finding out about Imu should have come between Wano and Egghead, not in the middle of it. The arc itself barely holds together. Labophase death game was just dropped. Before the Motherflame spread the island doesn’t have any cool visuals, maybe only the Robot.

[King Cannon]

@Gizmo said in Chapter 1115: Pieces of a Continent:

@King-Cannon While I haven’t been keeping a pulse on Egghead’s reception, I have seen a lot more people like Wano in the general public zeitgeist, at least when compared to the ratio in APForums.

Wano is quite divisive, depending on where you ask (APF is definitely on the less receptive side of the scale however), but people also seem to have generally liked the action. Most will also agree it didn't have a satisfactory ending, or at least that it was incomplete, which Oda might be trying to rectify with the current cover story.

For Egghead, my perception is that people like it better, with many citing the outside events as highlights. It does seem like there's a general fan interest on what's happening around the world instead of just the immediate surroundings of the SH.

[Deicide]

@King-Cannon said in Chapter 1115: Pieces of a Continent:

Also, from what I've seen online, most people seem to love Egghead. It's the opposite with Wano, which is always more negatively thought off.

That’s because Wano ended and all the hype died down. Wait for Egghead’s turn.

A lot of satisfaction from reading weekly is the thrill of waiting what comes next. You have a whole week to overanyze things and make hundreds of cool scenarios that surely the story will surpass. Then it ends and a lot of that was just in your head, and you need to check out what you actually got. That’s when people start weighting the bad and the good.

I feel Egghead won’t be remembered as fondly as it was experienced.

@King-Cannon said in Chapter 1115: Pieces of a Continent:.

For Egghead, my perception is that people like it better, with many citing the outside events as highlights. It does seem like there's a general fan interest on what's happening around the world instead of just the immediate surroundings of the SH.

Inter-arc stuff was always awesome to see because it moves the world and the narrative fast-forward.

Egghead is a bloated inter-arc that has the crew in it to justify its size. The outside stuff is fun, but the arc itself is flawed as hell.

[King Cannon]

@Deicide said in Chapter 1115: Pieces of a Continent:

A lot of satisfaction from reading weekly is the thrill of waiting what comes next. You have a whole week to overanyze things and make hundreds of cool scenarios that surely the story will surpass. Then it ends and a lot of that was just in your head, and you need to check out what you actually got. That’s when people start weighting the bad and the good.

Ah, so the whole problem is that Egghead didn't do things like how you headcanoned, huh?

Like, a lot of the things that have been happening were beyond the scope of what I was predicting, some good others bad, but it's not really hard to accept them. I wanted to see Kizaru being a bigger threat, but it's also fine that Luffy gets to deal with him, especially since the Elders have been generally more intimidating.

[Deicide]

@King-Cannon I understand the urge to attack the message to not acknowledge the message, but I’m not talking about myself, it’s about the general reaction, we are all human beings. For instance, Egghead is the arc that delivered the much-awaited fight with Kizaru, something built up over 600 chapters, and it ended up being one the worst fights in the series. Egghead is holding on this promise of awesomeness but, much like Yamato not joining the crew in Wano, it’s more and more likely to not deliver it.

[King Cannon]

@Deicide said in Chapter 1115: Pieces of a Continent:

@King-Cannon I understand the urge to attack the message to not acknowledge the message, but I’m not talking about myself, it’s about the general reaction, we are all human beings. For instance, Egghead is the arc that delivered the much-awaited fight with Kizaru, something built up over 600 chapters, and it ended up being one the worst fights in the series. Egghead is holding on this promise of awesomeness but, much like Yamato not joining the crew in Wano, it’s more and more likely to not deliver it.

"Worst fights in the series" is quite hyperbolic. It's not like Kizaru wasn't capable of showing competency in spite of his defeat. He did fight Luffy to a stalemate, and it took quite a few chapters for it to happen. Then he got back up and ultimately accomplished his mission after making a fool of Sanji.

He wasn't just a Ryokugyu who suddenly showed up to hype Shanks as the ultimate badass and make Momo look strong in spite of his rather pathetic role in Wano.

[Kitsune Inferno]

Egghead is great, I pretty much never see any complaining about it in good faith except for the people who complain about it here.

[Chams 0]

I loved the fight with Kizaru! The visuals with the light clones were great. And he was ruthless going after Vegapunk with zero hesitation. But then he had to become dizzy twice and be out of comission for no clear reason. He felt strong but possible to be defeated, which is a great place for an antagonist. And yet the arc abandoned him, and there was nothing else from the fight. It was fun, but short.

[Dahaka]

@Deicide said in Chapter 1115: Pieces of a Continent:

For instance, Egghead is the arc that delivered the much-awaited fight with Kizaru, something built up over 600 chapters.

There was literally zero built up for any fight with Kizaru, unless you mean it like fans waiting to see kizaru in action, but just becuase Oda did not deliver on fans' projections doesn't meant what's there is bad. Oda knew very well what he was doing when drawing this fight and it clearly wasn't the "here's kizaru finally going all out!!!". There were no stakes big enough to make this fight anything grander and more serious than it was. No real conflict between Kizaru and Luffy to resolve (becuase that's what the big fights are for in One Piece - resolving arcs conflicts). It's just Luffy proving Kizaru can't do what he had done to them two years ago anymore.

As for the narrative and themes of this arc - to me it's quite clear that it's all build up and pieces for the final saga narrative and themes, with implication of possible science/faith dychotomy being one of it's cores. Egghead focused on science (ancient weapons, ancient kingdom, vegapunk, seraphims) while Elbaf may focus on faith (Nika, devil fruits which being created from dreams or whatever, maybe Elbaf fables). Or maybe it's ideas vs creation or something similiar.

There does not seem to be a no self-contained thematic story this arc, and I don't think any future arc will have those anymore. Even if I'm not right with my predictions, I still am 99% sure that the themes will be clear once all is said and done, the same way as they were during war saga.

Sabaody was thematically all over the place also, slavery and celestial dragon on one hand, supernova gatherhing on the other, Rayleigh lore drops not connected to anything this arc, and SH's loss at the end. It's like a random bunch of ideas and yet the arc is top tier for majority of the fans, while not having any clear overarching themes at all.

That is until the whole saga was over and then everything clicked. Luffy's loss was all a part of being broken down three arcs in a row and realising he needs to get stronger. Supernovas were intruduced as a the new generation that's going to take over the seas after the old one has began to fall in Marineford. Celestial Dragons were introduced as the looming force above the marines that pulls the strings of this entire charade.

Egghead is going to be the same, mark my words.

[Deicide]

@Dahaka Sabaody is a perfectly fine narrative:

• We arrive at Red Line and don’t know how to go further
• We save Keimi and Hatchi and they know how to go further.
• We go to Sabaody for ship coating.
• Sabaody is where strong captains gather because it’s the end of the Grand Line’s 1st half.
• It’s also visited by World Nobles because Mary Geoise and Marine HQ are nearby.
• We learn of slabery (remember having to save Keimi and Hatchi). Keimi is kidnapped.
• We go save Keimi, beat a World Noble. Met the coater who turns out is a big figure (Rayleigh)
• Rayleigh teases future developments
• A marine admiral is dispatched because we beat a World Noble (as explained prior)
• Admiral beats strong captains to show he’s the shit.
• Admiral beats the crew. Raylrigh and Kuma save the crew. The crew still loses and is spread apart. The end.

Sabaody didn’t bloat to a whooping 60 chapters l, nor it stop to show events unrelated to it, nor it conflicts resolved offscreen, nor it had a big flashback in the middle dor a character that would disappear after it, plus it had great tension the likes of which we haven’t seen since. It was a great, short, narratively cohesive arc.

And you are crazy if you think there was no hype for a Kizaru confrontation, from Luffy proclaiming it 500 chapters ago, to Egghead itself teasing it.

Also, the author can’t control every reader’s expectations, but he does generate expectations on purpose. It’s on him when those aren’t met.

[King Cannon]

Why are people acting like Kizaru lasted only two chapters here?

Like, he only got throw off a few chapters ago. He remained a constant threat until that point and Luffy was the only guy present that was able to fight him in equal footing.

[Dahaka]

You just listed events that happen in an arc. I can make the same list with Egghead. What does it prove? It's the same mish mash of various events that's happening on egghead, except egghead spends more time on the ones it presents and they make more sense being together in one arc (except the things that happened outside of the island, but it's hardly anything bad for the arc, it's just weirdly placed intermission)

Kuma did not disappear anywhere. He got KOed, but he'll be back to wrap up his and Bonney's arc before the arcs end, because why wouldn't he. (and if he doesn't I'll eat my words)

Whodunnit being offpaneled is the best thing that happened to this arc. I can bet a lot of money that if it wasn't, people would be bitching about how boring it is. And it's really not that important in the grand scheme of this arc, no one cares about it at this point, no one is complaining that it happend.

Can you show me the panel where Luffy proclaimed he wants to fight with Kizaru? I don't think there is any, so no, Oda did not generate any expectations towards this fight happening. Hell, I don't think even fans generated it amongs themselves, it was always Kizaru vs Sanji (which is also a mostly fan-generated expectation)

[electricmastro]

@RomanceDawn said in Chapter 1115: Pieces of a Continent:

So Doflamingo’s big secret he held over the Celestial Dragons that would shake the earth to its core? The knowledge of Im or perhaps the knowledge that the world is sinking? Maybe neither but Doffy was pretty well learned and might have knew some aspects of the ancient world being flooded over.

@electricmastro said in Chapter 1115: Pieces of a Continent:

@Chams-0 said in Chapter 1115: Pieces of a Continent:

Also, I’m laughing at my old prediction that the big Egghead incident would be…. Luffy defeating an Admiral, and demoralizing the Marines.. Kizaru has disappeared from the story! And what we got was so, so much bigger than that!

I was most willing to believe the idea of Luffy defeating an Admiral if there was a catch to it, and it seems I was on track, since Luffy couldn't defeat any of the Elders.

Would make sense if the Admirals became a lesser priority compared to the Elders, considering what the Elders have showcased thus far.

I know right? Just an Admiral being defeated seems so tame now hehehe. It would certainly be a big deal but this kind of revelation to the world is really earth shaking.

Seems like aside from Akainu the Admirals will be taking a step back in terms of threat or priority. To clarify, the Admirals still appear to me as the ultimate weapons of the Marines. But it looks like Zoro, Sanji and possibly Jimbei will soon be able to sub in for Luffy if he has to deal with the Fleet Admiral, Elders or anyone else higher on the command list.

We’ll probably see those anime style openings soon enough. lol

Evidently Oda wasn't the most interested in having the Admirals step-up to respond to Luffy becoming an Emperor who kicked Kaido's ass, so instead he opted for having the Elders step up as a squad in a way to give Luffy believable trouble despite him kicking Kaido's ass with Gear 5th, and I'd say Oda fairly succeeded on that front.

[Deicide]

@Dahaka said in Chapter 1115: Pieces of a Continent:

You just listed events that happen in an arc.

No, I showed how the narrative flows and uses all the elements to build a climax.

Tell me what importance Buggy had in Egghead, and yet we spent a chapter with Cross Guild. Or Shanks beating Kid. Or the entire Garp sequence. Or Teach beating Law.

What about the whole York/Seraphim plot being offscreened?

What of the protagonists having almost no drive on the plot?

What about building Kuma’s flashback around Saturn, only for Saturn to go do others things and not interacting with Kuma/Bonney anymore?

Egghead’s threads don’t tie together, it’s a mess of events and wasted elements that do not flow from one to another.

[Zanze]

I'm not a fan of how segmented Egghead has been either, but I'd wait until the arc is over to judge.
A bunch of stuff that got glossed over when the events on the island got skipped has been reintroduced in recent chapters (namely Stussy, York and the Seraphims), those threads can still get a conclusion, as can Kuma and Saturn.
I mean the Elders would still have to do something after the broadcast is over/gets interrupted, no?

Anyways, every chapter feels like it's the second to last or something chapter of the arc but then it just keeps going lol

[Deicide]

@Zanze said in Chapter 1115: Pieces of a Continent:

I'd wait until the arc is over to judge.

Well:

@Deicide said in Chapter 1115: Pieces of a Continent:

I want to wait the arc's end before passing final judgement, but considering it's at least 80% done, I'll say what I think:

We can judge what we have so far. If things change, then opinions change with them. But it's more and more likely the arc is ending very soon, and I doubt there's time to wrap up everything. A lot of these threads will be left to be resolved in the future, which would be fine, if they were woven together better in the tapestry of the arc.

[Kitsune Inferno]

At some point, we should ask if Oda's writing the Egghead Arc or the Final Saga. I think he's only ever used one of those terms before.

Egghead's goals don't appear to be telling an isolated story and has never explicitly established itself as such, it's always presented to me as a setup arc putting all of the pieces in place for the rest of the final act. We are literally inching through a broadcast to the entire world as we speak, which should speak to its global ambitions. Could it have been organized in a better way? Sure. But I think we're trying too hard to argue that Egghead is something it's not.

[electricmastro]

@Kitsune-Inferno said in Chapter 1115: Pieces of a Continent:

At some point, we should ask if Oda's writing the Egghead Arc or the Final Saga. I think he's only ever used one of those terms before.

Egghead's goals don't appear to be telling an isolated story and has never explicitly established itself as such, it's always presented to me as a setup arc putting all of the pieces in place for the rest of the final act. We are literally inching through a broadcast to the entire world as we speak, which should speak to its global ambitions. Could it have been organized in a better way? Sure. But I think we're trying too hard to argue that Egghead is something it's not.

I recall him mentioning last year that even though he mentions final saga, the manga isn’t ending quickly, so we can just read it comfortably in the meantime.

[Deicide]

@Kitsune-Inferno Sure, it may be the objective, but it should still have a basic story. Or else, why not just make it an inter-arc event? It's one thing to spend a volume setting up the final saga. It's another when you make an arc that is about to reach the size of Sabaody, Amazon Lily and Impel Down together.

There's a huge structural problem here because while the objective is to set up a ton of things, we still need to have a cohesive story tying all together. There's a lot of elements in Egghead that could be moved, trimmed or modified in order to produce a better flowing narrative.

This is not even a new critique, even back at the cutaways I was pointing out how the Kid/Shanks and Cross Guild segments would have been better if happened before the arc started, as to not interrupt it, and at the time I was (and still am) questioning if the Garp segment wouldn't also be better placed in another moment. (No complains about the Reverie segment, it adds nicely to the arc, tying the Mother Flame, the Elders, Imu and the Revolutionaries to it).

Likewise, the entire traitor/Seraphim segment could have been simplified. People say it was "boring", which I don't agree, but by saying so they admit the arc is flawed. Why introduce a "boring" plotline?

There's a huge number of elements that were introduced in the arc and then relegated to nuisances that can be off-screened for several chapters and then resolved in one go when they are no longer needed to stall the heroes. CP-0, York, the Seraphim, and the Vice-admirals all fall in that trap. Kizaru is a bit better because he does get two chapters to fight, but then he's still victim to the same device. And later he gets up, and the trick is done a second time with him.

The current climax is also flawed as hell. Its conflict just doesn't work, and the broadcast could very well be revealed while something more tense and interesting than villains hunting snails happens in present time. Juxtaposing a better conflict to the broadcasted revelations would enhance the scene greatly.

[King Cannon]

@Deicide said in Chapter 1115: Pieces of a Continent:

Tell me what importance Buggy had in Egghead, and yet we spent a chapter with Cross Guild. Or Shanks beating Kid. Or the entire Garp sequence. Or Teach beating Law.

What about the whole York/Seraphim plot being offscreened?

What of the protagonists having almost no drive on the plot?

What about building Kuma’s flashback around Saturn, only for Saturn to go do others things and not interacting with Kuma/Bonney anymore?

Egghead’s threads don’t tie together, it’s a mess of events and wasted elements that do not flow from one to another.

Again, you're still giving too much focus to Egghead when Oda's priorities are much bigger now.

A lot of the stuff you cited don't matter to Egghead. But alas, Oda does not want things to matter to Egghead. It's only the place where the SH got to meet Vegapunk, and right now it's just the means for Vegapunk's ends of alerting the population.

Case in point, Egghead has no actual named civilians and VP and his clones are the only characters that matter there. That was by design. Oda did not want the SH wasting time bonding with locals like they usually do in previous arcs

[Kitsune Inferno]

@electricmastro said in Chapter 1115: Pieces of a Continent:

@Kitsune-Inferno said in Chapter 1115: Pieces of a Continent:

At some point, we should ask if Oda's writing the Egghead Arc or the Final Saga. I think he's only ever used one of those terms before.

Egghead's goals don't appear to be telling an isolated story and has never explicitly established itself as such, it's always presented to me as a setup arc putting all of the pieces in place for the rest of the final act. We are literally inching through a broadcast to the entire world as we speak, which should speak to its global ambitions. Could it have been organized in a better way? Sure. But I think we're trying too hard to argue that Egghead is something it's not.

I recall him mentioning last year that even though he mentions final saga, the manga isn’t ending quickly, so we can just read it comfortably in the meantime.

Reading it comfortably is what I'm trying to advocate for. Even if we're not ending for a while, the mode of storytelling we're looking at now is unprecedented for this series outside of maybe the Reverie arc, so maybe I'm more willing to be forgiving if it's not written in some perfect sequence.

There's also Oda's schedule and output to consider. We've never had fewer chapters per year, or fewer pages per chapter, and that kind of strikes me as signs of struggle--sure, Oda's getting older, he has more on his plate than ever, he's at the height of his global stardom currently, but he's also trying to kick his story into a new gear that up till now has been fairly localized to the covers or the in-betweens of arcs.

It's easy to forget when we're criticizing every little thing that Oda's been writing this story nonstop for 27 years straight, probably constantly outlining only a few chapters ahead at a time, and with the sheer amount of threads being pulled on by this arc, it's easy to see how they might be overwhelming.

I dunno, I guess what I'm getting at is, it's weird to me that we keep comparing Egghead to past arcs, arcs that only bear a passing resemblance to the scope and scale Egghead is going for, and trying to apply the same rules and standards to it, when Egghead is clearly doing something else entirely, and that something else entirely might not entirely be something Oda's used to.

It's not a perfect arc, but I'm enjoying the ride, so it kinda strikes me as odd how much persistent criticism it's getting.

[electricmastro]

@Kitsune-Inferno said in Chapter 1115: Pieces of a Continent:

@electricmastro said in Chapter 1115: Pieces of a Continent:

@Kitsune-Inferno said in Chapter 1115: Pieces of a Continent:

At some point, we should ask if Oda's writing the Egghead Arc or the Final Saga. I think he's only ever used one of those terms before.

Egghead's goals don't appear to be telling an isolated story and has never explicitly established itself as such, it's always presented to me as a setup arc putting all of the pieces in place for the rest of the final act. We are literally inching through a broadcast to the entire world as we speak, which should speak to its global ambitions. Could it have been organized in a better way? Sure. But I think we're trying too hard to argue that Egghead is something it's not.

I recall him mentioning last year that even though he mentions final saga, the manga isn’t ending quickly, so we can just read it comfortably in the meantime.

Reading it comfortably is what I'm trying to advocate for. Even if we're not ending for a while, the mode of storytelling we're looking at now is unprecedented for this series outside of maybe the Reverie arc, so maybe I'm more willing to be forgiving if it's not written in some perfect sequence.

There's also Oda's schedule and output to consider. We've never had fewer chapters per year, or fewer pages per chapter, and that kind of strikes me as signs of struggle--sure, Oda's getting older, he has more on his plate than ever, he's at the height of his global stardom currently, but he's also trying to kick his story into a new gear that up till now has been fairly localized to the covers or the in-betweens of arcs.

It's easy to forget when we're criticizing every little thing that Oda's been writing this story nonstop for 27 years straight, probably constantly outlining only a few chapters ahead at a time, and with the sheer amount of threads being pulled on by this arc, it's easy to see how they might be overwhelming.

I dunno, I guess what I'm getting at is, it's weird to me that we keep comparing Egghead to past arcs, arcs that only bear a passing resemblance to the scope and scale Egghead is going for, and trying to apply the same rules and standards to it, when Egghead is clearly doing something else entirely.

It's not a perfect arc, but I'm enjoying the ride, so it kinda strikes me as odd how much persistent criticism it's getting.

Yeah, for some reason many people seem to be jumping on the bandwagon as if Oda will be ending the manga in less than 100 chapters, despite him still taking his time with things like Kuma’s flashback and Vegapunk’s broadcast, as if he only deserves to be doubted on his writing ability of properly following through with things.

[Dahaka]

@Deicide

Tell me what importance Buggy had in Egghead, and yet we spent a chapter with Cross Guild. Or Shanks beating Kid. Or the entire Garp sequence. Or Teach beating Law.

It is a weirdly placed intermission, but I don't see why would anyone use that to criticize the arc in any major way. It does nothing to the arc, it's just a break in events (and not even any major ones)

What about the whole York/Seraphim plot being offscreened?

I'll give you the York plotline, though personally I feel that decision was for the better given how long this arc has become. Nobody wants another behemoth arc, so offpaneling the least interesting part of it is fine with me. Sure, it would be better to not have this whodunit game at all, but alas. Anyway, I don't think this is anything major that would warrant to call the arc the worst. Wano is guilty of much worse narrative crimes.

I don't recall Seraphims having any major plot, unless you mean fights then fine. Though offpaneled fights are nothing new in post-skip OP, so it's hardly anything to work against quality of Egghead in comparison to last 500 chapters.

What of the protagonists having almost no drive on the plot?

And this is bad because...? You don't need main protagonists to drive the plot all the time as long as you have other means to do it and make it equally interesting (and One Piece sure as hell does have them)

What about building Kuma’s flashback around Saturn, only for Saturn to go do others things and not interacting with Kuma/Bonney anymore?

We had a cathartic climax of the flashback with epic Kuma punch. You talk as if the arc was done. It's not even been 10 chapters without Kuma (who has been KOed). Focus shifted to Vegapunk's lore dumps for now, but it doesn't mean Kuma's plotline was dropped and will never come back.

Egghead’s threads don’t tie together, it’s a mess of events and wasted elements that do not flow from one to another.

Yeah they do. Every single plot thread is wrapped around Vegapunk - his inventions, his knowledge, his relationships, his morality. The whole arc started with government trying to assassinate him because he knows too much and after much escalation this is what the climax is still focused on, while other plots explore other sides of him. Kuma's flashback may seem like it's own thing, and it kinda is, but in the end it also connects to Vegapunk and shows what kind of human he is. The whole thing structurally is not that much different from how Law and his revenge story was incorporated into Dressrosa's struggles he had zero presence in, while Doflamingo (instead of Vegapunk this arc) was the thread tying it all together

Sure, it may be the objective, but it should still have a basic story.

As mentioned above, it does have a basic story, which is WG trying to erase Vegapunk and his knowledge. From the start until now that's what the arc is about on the most basic level.

[.access timeco.]

@Deicide said in Chapter 1115: Pieces of a Continent:

Tell me what importance Buggy had in Egghead, and yet we spent a chapter with Cross Guild. Or Shanks beating Kid. Or the entire Garp sequence. Or Teach beating Law.

As I see it, it's less about how it affects the events in Egghead and more about a narrative choice to bring the new Emperors to the front as the new protagonists.
Oda could just as well show Shanks, Teach and Buggy movements before the arc and then move to Egghead, but he probably wanted to show the 4 Emperors moving in tandem.

I honestly thought it was amazing. It's a design choice that in one single move: brings the Emperors to the forefront as new focus, both individually and collectively; helps cement on the reader the idea that Luffy placement in the world dynamic changed (something even in boards like this we can see people have a problem understanding); makes the OP-world feel more dynamic.

What about the whole York/Seraphim plot being offscreened?

I think it's pretty safe to guess the York plot line only existed to be offscreened. It was never something intended to be shown.
Oda used it to provide context on the Seraphim and the Vegapunks and then it was expendable. There was nothing left to show there except the SH running around the lab and fighting (an even less interesting run of Punk Hazard).
People treat this plot line being off-screened as a necessary evil. As a compromise Oda was forced to make so he could focus on other things. In my opinion that's not the case: it was skipped because it was never meant to be shown. That plot line was created precisely to be skipped, to give Luffy something irrelevant to do offscreen while Oda went to the things he wanted to show.

As for the other points, I agree. I am enjoying the hell out of this arc, but it follows Wano in the sense of feeling sloppily put together.

[Deicide]

@access-timeco said in Chapter 1115: Pieces of a Continent:

As I see it, it's less about how it affects the events in Egghead and more about a narrative choice to bring the new Emperors to the front as the new protagonists.

I mean, both Shanks and Cross Guild scenes could have played out before Egghead starts. Make them inter-arc stuff.

I'm still on the fence if all the Blackbeard stuff shouldn't be moved outside the arc as well. It's kinda parallel to events in the arc but doesn't contribute to its plot.

[King Cannon]

@Deicide said in Chapter 1115: Pieces of a Continent:

@access-timeco said in Chapter 1115: Pieces of a Continent:

As I see it, it's less about how it affects the events in Egghead and more about a narrative choice to bring the new Emperors to the front as the new protagonists.

I mean, both Shanks and Cross Guild scenes could have played out before Egghead starts. Make them inter-arc stuff.

I'm still on the fence if all the Blackbeard stuff shouldn't be moved outside the arc as well. It's kinda parallel to events in the arc but doesn't contribute to its plot.

Again, I'm not sure why it needs to contribute to ''its'' plot, as if everything that has to happen at the moment needs to serve Egghead in some way.

I think this way of thinking does not apply anymore, especially with how Oda is now treating arcs as less important than the overall final saga.

I will dare say Elbaf will be the same. Oda no longer has the time and plot to just stay +50 chapters in a single location.

[electricmastro]

@Dahaka said in Chapter 1115: Pieces of a Continent:

@Deicide

Tell me what importance Buggy had in Egghead, and yet we spent a chapter with Cross Guild. Or Shanks beating Kid. Or the entire Garp sequence. Or Teach beating Law.

It is a weirdly placed intermission, but I don't see why would anyone use that to criticize the arc in any major way. It does nothing to the arc, it's just a break in events (and not even any major ones)

What about the whole York/Seraphim plot being offscreened?

I'll give you the York plotline, though personally I feel that decision was for the better given how long this arc has become. Nobody wants another behemoth arc, so offpaneling the least interesting part of it is fine with me. Sure, it would be better to not have this whodunit game at all, but alas. Anyway, I don't think this is anything major that would warrant to call the arc the worst. Wano is guilty of much worse narrative crimes.

I don't recall Seraphims having any major plot, unless you mean fights then fine. Though offpaneled fights are nothing new in post-skip OP, so it's hardly anything to work against quality of Egghead in comparison to last 500 chapters.

What of the protagonists having almost no drive on the plot?

And this is bad because...? You don't need main protagonists to drive the plot all the time as long as you have other means to do it and make it equally interesting (and One Piece sure as hell does have them)

What about building Kuma’s flashback around Saturn, only for Saturn to go do others things and not interacting with Kuma/Bonney anymore?

We had a cathartic climax of the flashback with epic Kuma punch. You talk as if the arc was done. It's not even been 10 chapters without Kuma (who has been KOed). Focus shifted to Vegapunk's lore dumps for now, but it doesn't mean Kuma's plotline was dropped and will never come back.

Egghead’s threads don’t tie together, it’s a mess of events and wasted elements that do not flow from one to another.

Yeah they do. Every single plot thread is wrapped around Vegapunk - his inventions, his knowledge, his relationships, his morality. The whole arc started with government trying to assassinate him because he knows too much and after much escalation this is what the climax is still focused on, while other plots explore other sides of him. Kuma's flashback may seem like it's own thing, and it kinda is, but in the end it also connects to Vegapunk and shows what kind of human he is. The whole thing structurally is not that much different from how Law and his revenge story was incorporated into Dressrosa's struggles he had zero presence in, while Doflamingo (instead of Vegapunk this arc) was the thread tying it all together

Sure, it may be the objective, but it should still have a basic story.

As mentioned above, it does have a basic story, which is WG trying to erase Vegapunk and his knowledge. From the start until now that's what the arc is about on the most basic level.

I can see York’s cat and mouse game as the only noticeable example of Oda rushing through things. Though that said, seeing as how it happened at the same time as Kuzan vs. Garp, I understand that Oda felt most comfortably focusing on one of either incident and didn’t want to show the other in a long flashback, so he ended up with the result we have.

[electricmastro]

@Kitsune-Inferno said in Chapter 1115: Pieces of a Continent:

Egghead is great, I pretty much never see any complaining about it in good faith except for the people who complain about it here.

I get the feeling especially since Wano’s ending that people are complaining about it because it doesn’t specifically play out the way people want it to, including things that don’t happen in a way that specifically appeals to them.

For me, I don’t really criticize arcs for what they don’t do and how it specifically appeals to me, but for what they actually do and how it benefits the story as a whole.

[Kitsune Inferno]

@electricmastro said in Chapter 1115: Pieces of a Continent:

@Kitsune-Inferno said in Chapter 1115: Pieces of a Continent:

Egghead is great, I pretty much never see any complaining about it in good faith except for the people who complain about it here.

I get the feeling especially since Wano’s ending that people are complaining about it because it doesn’t specifically play out the way people want it to, including things that don’t happen in a way that specifically appeals to them.

For me, I don’t really criticize arcs for what they don’t do and how it specifically appeals to me, but for what they actually do and how it benefits the story as a whole.

Admittedly, I'm a pretty big Wano critic myself for reasons specific to me--it's way too long, does no service to its antagonists, spotlights characters I don't care about and Wano never made me care about, it's way too long, way more important and interesting things are happening elsewhere and we're stuck in this way too long hellscape for... way too long.

But Egghead to me is the exact opposite of that. It's long, but it's long because it's peddling in global concerns, so I don't feel like I'm missing anything else going on because EVERYTHING is going on. It spotlights characters I DO care about and has contextualized its antagonists fairly well. We'll no doubt learn more about the Gorosei with time, but we can glean a lot from Kuma's interactions with Saturn. I'm happy. It's basically the anti-Wano in every way and sure, it's moving slowly and it's not the most organized arc, but every chapter feels like a treat with every new revelation it doles out. It's exactly what I want.

So I guess that's my cross to bear, and maybe that should make it easier for me to understand the criticism, but it's not the emotional criticism that bothers me--it's the constant, repetitive, relentless "objective" criticism that seems to be more concerned with telling everybody it's indisputably awful and terrible in every chapter and every thread because Oda isn't writing the series exactly the way I want it to be written. And I really only see that here.

[electricmastro]

@Kitsune-Inferno said in Chapter 1115: Pieces of a Continent:

@electricmastro said in Chapter 1115: Pieces of a Continent:

@Kitsune-Inferno said in Chapter 1115: Pieces of a Continent:

Egghead is great, I pretty much never see any complaining about it in good faith except for the people who complain about it here.

I get the feeling especially since Wano’s ending that people are complaining about it because it doesn’t specifically play out the way people want it to, including things that don’t happen in a way that specifically appeals to them.

For me, I don’t really criticize arcs for what they don’t do and how it specifically appeals to me, but for what they actually do and how it benefits the story as a whole.

Admittedly, I'm a pretty big Wano critic myself for reasons specific to me--it's way too long, does no service to its antagonists, spotlights characters I don't care about and Wano never made me care about, it's way too long, way more important and interesting things are happening elsewhere and we're stuck in this way too long hellscape for... way too long.

But Egghead to me is the exact opposite of that. It's long, but it's long because it's peddling in global concerns, so I don't feel like I'm missing anything else going on because EVERYTHING is going on. It spotlights characters I DO care about and has contextualized its antagonists fairly well. We'll no doubt learn more about the Gorosei with time, but we can glean a lot from Kuma's interactions with Saturn. I'm happy. It's basically the anti-Wano in every way and sure, it's moving slowly and it's not the most organized arc, but every chapter feels like a treat with every new revelation it doles out. It's exactly what I want.

So I guess that's my cross to bear, and maybe that should make it easier for me to understand the criticism, but it's not the emotional criticism that bothers me--it's the constant, repetitive, relentless "objective" criticism that seems to be more concerned with telling everybody it's indisputably awful and terrible in every chapter and every thread because Oda isn't writing the series exactly the way I want it to be written. And I really only see that here.

For me, it helps that Bonney is a more interesting character to base a whole arc around than Momo, whose personality I found rather uninteresting despite his moments of bravery.

Bonney has been through the crap of being born in the captivity of slavery, ended up being the subject of human experimentation alongside her mother, who died, and had her condition used against Kuma at the cost of his humanity.

And despite all that crap, Bonney still shows a headstrong, determined, and fun attitude in addition to a cool power. Might be One Piece’s best kid character honestly.

[Chams 0]

Although Vegapunk is working using the research from Ohara, it seems like he and Robin have slightly different knowledge of the past. He seems to know a little bit more of the Ancient Kingdom and Joy Boy, since Robin was surprised to read his name in Fishman Island. Meanwhile Robin seems to know a little bit more about the Ancient Weapons. Robin knew of the location of Pluton, and the nature of Poseidon from the texts she read in Alabasta and Skypiea. It is this knowledge of the weapons that caused Crocodile and Spandam to go after her. In chapter 1086 Dragon says that Robin confirmed to him that the Weapons existed, so it seems she told the Revolutionaries something about the past (while barely telling her crew or us the readers anything lol).
Also it seems unlikely that Vegapunk had seen or read any Red Poneglyph, so she knows more about Laugh Tale having a secret location.

[electricmastro]

@Chams-0 said in Chapter 1115: Pieces of a Continent:

Although Vegapunk is working using the research from Ohara, it seems like he and Robin have slightly different knowledge of the past. He seems to know a little bit more of the Ancient Kingdom and Joy Boy, since Robin was surprised to read his name in Fishman Island. Meanwhile Robin seems to know a little bit more about the Ancient Weapons. Robin knew of the location of Pluton, and the nature of Poseidon from the texts she read in Alabasta and Skypiea. It is this knowledge of the weapons that caused Crocodile and Spandam to go after her. In chapter 1086 Dragon says that Robin confirmed to him that the Weapons existed, so it seems she told the Revolutionaries something about the past (while barely telling her crew or us the readers anything lol).
Also it seems unlikely that Vegapunk had seen or read any Red Poneglyph, so she knows more about Laugh Tale having a secret location.

Oh yeah, Croc never did explain where he did find out about Pluton, did he

[Chams 0]

Probably has to do with the “secret” Ivankov has on him. Namely that he might have been involved with the Revolutionaries before. So he knew a secret or two of the world

[Daz]

@Kitsune-Inferno The notion that Egghead stands in contrasts to Wano surprises me, because to me Egghead suffers from a ton of the exact same problems Wano did, as well as post-skip One Piece at large.

The exposition is overwhelming and blunt, with a lot of telling rather than showing. Priority on setting up future events and overarching lore over letting the present events ones cook. An absolute glut of characters and subplots, to the point that everything feels like abridged, cliffnotes versions of what they could be. Highly fragmented storytelling with the camera rarely lingering, instead cutting all over the place to serve as many things as possible, condensing things to "snapshot moments" and making more focused sequences rarer.

The Crew is incredibly marginalized, almost more than ever, which hits even harder after that was already a major qualm about the Wano behemoth and all a lot of us wanted was just a breather to let them get the spotlight again.

Like, I know Egghead has certain priorities - just like Zou did, which crushed any and all adventure under an elephant sized exposition dump- but the end result, where we're hastily speedrunning an entire character arc for Stussy, where theres no time or thought spared to how Jinbe reacts to a child soldier clone of himself being present, where the first half is constantly halted by Vegapunk exposition or cutaways to the wider world and the second half is basically just 3rd act "everyone chaotically RUNNING all over the place"/ aka "Marineford Mode" again...it's not new issues.

For however much setup Egghead "needs" to prioritize, its still weird and deflating that Bellamy and Sarquiss had a better established interplay than Vegapunk and his themed clone entourage. Or that Robin was more instrumental to catching a cheeky bird than breaking the biggest ever Void Century scoop to the world.