I'll say it again for the non-believers: Kaido can't go down for good until he is in his awakened form, has his flashback, and it is dawn. Then we will know why Nika was called the Sun God. 
Chapter 1,048: Twenty Years
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Teach doesnt know the battle is occuring in the sky at clouds distance.
Can you prove that Shilliew isn't around there invisible?:ninja:
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Teach doesnt know the battle is occuring in the sky at clouds distance.
How is Blackbeard getting information?. How did he know that Luffy and the others were in wano and that big mom was heading there?.
I feel like caribou is working for Blackbeard.
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How is Blackbeard getting information?. How did he know that Luffy and the others were in wano and that big mom was heading there?.
I feel like caribou is working for Blackbeard.
It was in the news. Big Mom contacted Kaido to warn him she was coming to Wano to hunt down Luffy. She didn't use a secure channel, so marines and God knows who else were able to listen to it. It was a topic of discussion in the Reverie. The newspaper eventually got it out to everyone.
Wano predictions: There will be 5 acts; All Straw Hats will get fights, some in Act 4; Big Mom Pirates will arrive; Carrot will have her moment, but won't join; Yamato will be a Kouzuki samurai and Wano's Guardian; Shanks will visit Luffy in Act 5; Next arc is Mary Geoise.
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It was in the news. Big Mom contacted Kaido to warn him she was coming to Wano to hunt down Luffy. She didn't use a secure channel, so marines and God knows who else were able to listen to it. It was a topic of discussion in the Reverie. The newspaper eventually got it out to everyone.
They know that something is brewing there, but they don't know anything about the battle occuring on X day because no one knows much about Wano citizens and their fire festival folklore.
To the outside world, Wano is a big black box.
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They know that something is brewing there, but they don't know anything about the battle occuring on X day because no one knows much about Wano citizens and their fire festival folklore.
To the outside world, Wano is a big black box.
But did Blackbeard show any such knowledge? I only remember he taunting Moria with the knowledge that Big Mom, Straw Hat and other big shots going for Wano, nothing specific about the Fire Festival nor the raid.
Wano predictions: There will be 5 acts; All Straw Hats will get fights, some in Act 4; Big Mom Pirates will arrive; Carrot will have her moment, but won't join; Yamato will be a Kouzuki samurai and Wano's Guardian; Shanks will visit Luffy in Act 5; Next arc is Mary Geoise.
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But did Blackbeard show any such knowledge? I only remember he taunting Moria with the knowledge that Big Mom, Straw Hat and other big shots going for Wano, nothing specific about the Fire Festival nor the raid.
He didn't, the only known thing right now to anyone who isn't in the upper echelons of the WG or CP0 is that Luffy tried to take on Kaido and failed and that Big Mom went there.
The Alliance and the battle of Onigashima are only known by the WG now, as far as we know, no public knowledge got leaked of those two things tho.
Pls correct me in case I'm mistaken.
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He didn't, the only known thing right now to anyone who isn't in the upper echelons of the WG or CP0 is that Luffy tried to take on Kaido and failed and that Big Mom went there.
The Alliance and the battle of Onigashima are only known by the WG now, as far as we know, no public knowledge got leaked of those two things tho.
Pls correct me in case I'm mistaken.
I think you are on point, except for the world knowing Luffy was defeated by Kaido at that point. Koby did know about it, but it's probably because of his SWORD status and direct contact to Drake. Blackbeard was oblivious to that detail in the interlude.
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I just realized Oda pulled the same thing with Komurasaki that he did with Rebecca back in Dressrosa. Both were bent on revenge and written to have a role but turned out to be damsel in distresses in the last minute and was pretty much non contributiory.
Man…I miss Vivi. -
I think one of my biggest problems with this arc is that it is one full of Zoans and the only one who showed awakening was retconned fruit in Luffy. 2 emperors not showing awakening is a travesty by Oda. Some random zoan scrubs have awakening but the strongest creature doesn’t ?
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@Joy:
I think one of my biggest problems with this arc is that it is one full of Zoans and the only one who showed awakening was retconned fruit in Luffy. 2 emperors not showing awakening is a travesty by Oda. Some random zoan scrubs have awakening but the strongest creature doesn’t ?
I have so many problems with this arc that I just gave up on it and I'm waiting for the next one.
Wano predictions: There will be 5 acts; All Straw Hats will get fights, some in Act 4; Big Mom Pirates will arrive; Carrot will have her moment, but won't join; Yamato will be a Kouzuki samurai and Wano's Guardian; Shanks will visit Luffy in Act 5; Next arc is Mary Geoise.
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I have so many problems with this arc that I just gave up on it and I'm waiting for the next one.
Meh Oda could do some simple things in this raid and the arc would be 10 times better. Have Orochi actually die to the combined attack of the scabbards, Kanjuro should have stayed down when Kiku beat him the first time, have Kaido actually kill Kinemon and Kiku. Plus the biggest of all, have Luffy actually stay out for a little while after the CP0 intervention with Kaido wrecking the entire alliance. That’s how you raise the stakes. Instead not only Luffy came back right away but he came back as a god
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Both Kaido and Big Mom may have very well used their awakenings. it just wasn't wasn't made clear. That can only mean their role in the story in not finished; they will be in future arcs…
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Big Mom being able to manipulate the souls of others with her Soul Pocus surly has nothing to do with awakening…
Kaido's fire dragon and all the element attacks and what not also have nothing to do with his awakening...Why do you need it to be spelled out... with those two it's a given that their fruits are awakened... after all we've seen...
It's obvious... -
Big Mom being able to manipulate the souls of others with her Soul Pocus surly has nothing to do with awakening…
Kaido's fire dragon and all the element attacks and what not also have nothing to do with his awakening...Why do you need it to be spelled out... with those two it's a given that their fruits are awakened... after all we've seen...
It's obvious...Not sure if you're being sarcastic or not but it's hard to say what Big Mom's awakening would be because her abilities are all over the place.
Kaido on the other hand is simple. He is a typical zoan(has a hybrid and full transformation), so his awakened form should be like the impel down zoans- mindless beasts in hybrid form. Maybe Oda didn't want that for kaido though so he decided Kaido's awakened form would be some of his drunk modes. Either way, it should be made clear as it has been for everyone else who has awakened their ability.
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Kaidou’s comments on Zoan awakening made it very clear that the ID guards were not naturally awakened…
Big Mom’s abilities fall perfectly in line with awakened Paramecias… -
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Big Mom being able to manipulate the souls of others with her Soul Pocus surly has nothing to do with awakening…
Kaido's fire dragon and all the element attacks and what not also have nothing to do with his awakening...Why do you need it to be spelled out... with those two it's a given that their fruits are awakened... after all we've seen...
It's obvious...That’s like saying Marco used awakening because he healed others.
Oda has highlighted every time when someone uses awakening. He dropped the ball here. Kaido didn’t use it.
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@Joy:
That’s like saying Marco used awakening because he healed others.
Except his fruit is a Zoan and that’s not a trait of an awakened Zoan… transformations are…
//edit:
On the other hand it could be since it’s Mythical… -
Big Mom being able to manipulate the souls of others with her Soul Pocus surly has nothing to do with awakening…
Kaido's fire dragon and all the element attacks and what not also have nothing to do with his awakening...Why do you need it to be spelled out... with those two it's a given that their fruits are awakened... after all we've seen...
It's obvious...Oda knows he hasn't explained what awakening is yet. At least not fully. Readers aren't able to readily identify when Awakening is being used. Comparatively, there are visual cues for when Haki is being used.
Thus far, Oda has made a point to explicitly tell us whenever a character is using their awakened powers. Luffy, Law, Kid, Doflamingo, Katakuri, and the Jailer Beasts.
While Big Mom might be in a bit of a grey area (I don't think her powers were awakened), it seems very unlikely Kaido was using his awakened abilities during this battle so far.
Luffy, Zoro, Nami, Usopp, Sanji, Chopper, Robin, Franky, Brook, Jimbei, Carrot, Vivi, Smoker
"ONE PIECE, IT EXISTS" - The Great Pirate Edward Newgate
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@Joy:
Meh Oda could do some simple things in this raid and the arc would be 10 times better. Have Orochi actually die to the combined attack of the scabbards, Kanjuro should have stayed down when Kiku beat him the first time, have Kaido actually kill Kinemon and Kiku. Plus the biggest of all, have Luffy actually stay out for a little while after the CP0 intervention with Kaido wrecking the entire alliance. That’s how you raise the stakes. Instead not only Luffy came back right away but he came back as a god
Basically: the same issue he has been repeating for years.
Stop padding your arcs if you really want to end the series Oda. -
@Vongola_Boss_XI:
it seems very unlikely Kaido was using his awakened abilities during this battle so far.
So it’s more likely that an azure dragon can just ignite himself… and use all elements from the get go… ok. If that’s more likely to you…
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So it’s more likely that an azure dragon can just ignite himself… and use all elements from the get go… ok. If that’s more likely to you…
Yeah, I see no reason why not. Kaido's demonstrated abilities are representative of the myths on which his Devil Fruit is based. It's no different from Catalina transforming with a Kitsune fruit, Marco's phoenix flames possessing restorative properties, or Momo possessing the ability to fly using flame clouds.
None of that is suggestive of awakening. And as noted, Oda is well aware he hasn't equipped readers with the information needed to readily identify awakening and as such, has made a point to explicitly spell out when awakening is being used.
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It’s pretty clear Oda wanted to nerf Kaido otherwise Luffy can’t win. Still doesn’t change the fact that him not having awakening is plain bad writing. When guys far weaker than him have it and he doesn’t show it, it’s just Oda spitting on our faces. The final stretch of the arc has major problems and it’s a shame because the potential is there. I’m not expecting much after this arc, everything about Luffy now and the way he wins is clearly forced
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To be clear, however this current clash concludes, I don't believe the fight is ending here. I still think Kaido is going to awaken. There are a lot of reasons why, but I think Oda is setting up a false victory.
Luffy, Zoro, Nami, Usopp, Sanji, Chopper, Robin, Franky, Brook, Jimbei, Carrot, Vivi, Smoker
"ONE PIECE, IT EXISTS" - The Great Pirate Edward Newgate
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@Joy:
It’s pretty clear Oda wanted to nerf Kaido otherwise Luffy can’t win. Still doesn’t change the fact that him not having awakening is plain bad writing. When guys far weaker than him have it and he doesn’t show it, it’s just Oda spitting on our faces. The final stretch of the arc has major problems and it’s a shame because the potential is there. I’m not expecting much after this arc, everything about Luffy now and the way he wins is clearly forced
I don't know… I imagine Kaido's awakening should just make him like the Impel Down Zoans- mindless beasts in hybrid form. Would you really want that for Kaido this arc? I'm not sure I'd like it.
--- Update From New Post Merge ---
@Vongola_Boss_XI:
To be clear, however this current clash concludes, I don't believe the fight is ending here. I still think Kaido is going to awaken. There are a lot of reasons why, but I think Oda is setting up a false victory.
People were saying this about Big Mom and certain other Animal Kingdom Pirates: "they have to show their awakening before they are done"(I was one of them), and alas… I think it's more likely Oda is saving it for another arc.
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@Vongola_Boss_XI:
To be clear, however this current clash concludes, I don't believe the fight is ending here. I still think Kaido is going to awaken. There are a lot of reasons why, but I think Oda is setting up a false victory.
Victory seems clear to me because there is nothing else to show. Kaido will be beaten next chapter, Oda dropped the ball with awakening. The WSC, emperor and king of zoans isnt awakened. Bad writing
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I still believe in ZKK and Kaidou getting back one last time… But I am talking about awakening? Why do we assume that the Kaidou, the King or Marco aren't awakened already? Because it wasn't mentioned? Yeah WB until this day wasn't mentioned do we should believe he never had awakening?
Taking Zoans awakening into account besides Luffy and Gear 5 it was said at IS that they are tougher and heal faster... And as we have seen with Kaidou and his multiple fights... He was already tough and all.
So maybe he and the others where awakened all the time and Oda just haven't told it probably as he is doing shit with haki
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I don't know… I imagine Kaido's awakening should just make him like the Impel Down Zoans- mindless beasts in hybrid form. Would you really want that for Kaido this arc? I'm not sure I'd like it.
--- Update From New Post Merge ---
People were saying this about Big Mom and certain other Animal Kingdom Pirates: "they have to show their awakening before they are done"(I was one of them), and alas... I think it's more likely Oda is saving it for another arc.
Oh, I definitely think Big Mom is being saved for Elbaf. She's the least of my concerns. I think there's more for Kaido, so for the time being, I'm also not concerned about his lack of awakening. But I did find the King and Queen fights were disappointing - and didn't really have the weight they should have. I liked Zoro and Sanji's personal growth, but I didn't get the same sense that they had pushed through a seemingly impossible barrier in the same way as the earlier battles against Cipher Pol. and Baroque Works, which I think is a pretty big shortcoming against the elite officers of an Emperor's crew. So much so, that it has become harder to imagine Shanks and even Blackbeard's crews as real obstacles or rivals standing in the way of the Straw Hats inheriting One Piece.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
@Joy:
Victory seems clear to me because there is nothing else to show. Kaido will be beaten next chapter, Oda dropped the ball with awakening. The WSC, emperor and king of zoans isnt awakened. Bad writing
I will be disappointed if this is how the battle ends - but I'm remaining cautiously optimistic.
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@Joy:
Bad writing
Awakening itself was it all along.
Never trusted the thing.
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I liked how this chapter focused on Orochi. It summarized his disdain for Wano nicely and allowed for his relevance as an antagonist to be noted once again after his detachment from the attention of the narrative after being betrayed by Kaido.
Orochi’s ultimate defeat wasn’t exactly through Denjiro but from the coalesces of uncertainties overwhelming him, of which Hiyori dominated. Orochi is methodological in his antagonism but when situation after situation introduced inexpectancy, the foundation for scheming disappeared. Orochi hid and became more cautious of further unexpected variables. Orochi would have remained concealed if not for Hiyori’s presence and the web she ensnared him in since becoming Komurasaki.
Hiyori played Orochi at his own game and won. Power isn’t defined in how hard a punch one can throw is but in how hard one can shatter another person’s resolve. Orochi was a master at mentally tormenting his opponents (Oden and Wano). Hiyori employed a similar strategy against Orochi in regards to playing a part and biding ones time to strike when there was an opening. Orochi could deal with physical threats like Sukiyuki, Oden and his retainers by employing deceptive tactics of camouflage and espionage but he was not prepared to face an opponent who used the same methods against him.
Hiyori used whatever power she had to bring about Orochi’s defeat. The shaminsen Hiyori played was used to both attract Orochi to her and to notify Denjiro where she was. Zoro was able to hear Hiyori’s shaminsen from outside of Onigashima, so it seems likely that Denjiro, who was looking for Hiyori and Orochi, would also pick up on the sound. Additionally, within the confusion caused, Hiyori was able to secretly place a seastone nail on Orochi without him noticing. All that effort by Hiyori led to Orochi revealing his final Yamata no Orochi head which Denjiro beheaded. If Orochi wasn’t killed, at the very least he should have lost the ability to utilise his Yamata no Orochi form.
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The big question now is how does Oda make the new villains who appear a threat when Luffy just defeated the strongest creature in the world
Can’t wait to see how he does that for Black Beard especially
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The big question now is how does Oda make the new villains who appear a threat when Luffy just defeated the strongest creature in the world
Can’t wait to see how he does that for Black Beard especially
Well, there's the Admirals, whatever the SSG is, CP0's top agent, the big bad for Elbaf and then Blackbeard. So, still some tough foes out there.
Maybe Kong, too?
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The big question now is how does Oda make the new villains who appear a threat when Luffy just defeated the strongest creature in the world
Can’t wait to see how he does that for Black Beard especially
I don't see how Luffy beating the strongest creature means the likes of Blackbeard are no longer a threat. Blackbeard- the only guy in the series with 2 devil fruit powers; one of them absorbs everything, even other devil fruit powers, and the other one is is arguably the most destructive Paramecia power.
If Luffy really does just straight up defeat Kaido, that just means Luffy is top tier. Not a bad thing if we are nearing the end of the story.
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Kaido was whittled down throughout the day and he deviated a significant part of his power to raise Onigashima and move it to the Flower Capital (the power involved to do that isn't nothing).
I don't believe Kaido was at 100% when fighting Luffy.
Plus there is also the mental state of Kaido - he WANTS to be defeated after fighting a strong opponent (which is why the Oden moment traumatizes him). The desperation involved in winning was not present in Kaido as that is not his end goal.
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I don’t get why people think Kaido isn’t awakened. He literally had a giant lava dragon appear around him. If you look closely in that two page spread, his actual body is very small within the giant lava form. If Zoan fruit awakenings are like monster chopper or G5 Luffy, it totally makes sense that Kaido’s awakened fruit would be to manifest a giant, hot form of himself.
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Awakening being an ultimate move makes sense for a certain level… for Doffy and Katakuri it was their ceiling... for Law and Kid it was their power up...
But for Big Mom and Kaidou it's nothing... they probably reached that state decades ago, and to a point where it's just normal for them to use...
It just doesn't make any sense that it would be something special for them, and that's why there is no necessity for an explicit announcement that they're using it... -
and that's why there is no necessity for an explicit announcement that they're using it…
So that the READERS know it is happening, and to raise the stakes and drama.
Sure, logically it makes sense they just use it on the regularly, dramatically that's complete garbage and fails to escalate their threat so for all intents and purposes it doesn't exist.
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Despite this arc having obvious issues, I still find it one of Oda's better arcs. It serves as a conclusion to over 10 years of story and within the overarching narrative, I find Oda has been successful in concluding the story built up over those years. Wano's suffering has been substantiated incredibly well through the myriad of characters encountered during the arc and the antagonism Orochi held toward Wano. I have also significantly enjoyed Momonosuke's focus within the latter portion of the arc with him slowly rising up to the challenge of embracing his destiny - future Shogun of Wano. One of the main apprehensions I had before entering into the Wano arc was the presentation of the Samurai and how underwhelming they felt. Thankfully, through the narrative, relevance and inclusion of additional Samurai, their value positively added to the embodiment of the Samurai.
I have in the past detailed my frustration over certain aspects of the arc such as how bloated it is and my annoyance toward how Oda handled the Smile users, Mink and Ninja but despite all that, the positives I found in the arc helped to keep the momentum moving forward. I also don't have an issue with how battles have been handled in the Wano arc. After disappointments suffered in the Fish-Man Island, Dressrosa, and Whole Cake Island regarding battles not featuring Luffy, I have come to terms with their current characterisations and stopped holding optimistic expectations toward how battles will be illustrated (my expectations have become more fluid). This is why the Nami victory against Ulti never bothered me, I never believed she would defeat Ulti without a third party interference or a cheat ability to begin with (Nami is weak relative to the current enemies and without Zeus). The Zoro and Sanji battles also don't bother me because those were the best fights they have featured in within the New World story. I also wouldn't be surprised or bothered if Kaido is defeated by this punch. He may not be knocked out but this punch could signal defeat in Kaido's mind which in turn could diminish the desire for destruction he has. After challenging Luffy and losing, Kaido should have reached an acknowledgement. If he hasn't, Luffy just needs to deal the final blow to completely crush Kaido's resolve. This could take the form a statement. Kaido's defeat to Luffy will be integral to his perspective going forward.
Other aspects I have loved about the Wano arc is the portrayal of the Worst Generation and the battles they featured in. The manner in how Oda has infused Japanese Mythology into the Wano story, setting and characters has also been done extremely well. From the stories of Momotaro, to Tsuru no Ongaeshi, to the story of Benkei, to the Yamata no Orochi to many other references to Japanese yokai and even references to Hindu mythology, I have loved it all. The presentation of how the Beast Pirates were deconstructed was also another positive point for me. I enjoyed seeing all the Beast Pirates realign themselves with the Samurai Rebellion in opposition of the Beast Pirates. It conveys the uniqueness Luffy and those who gather around him represent in the current age.
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Something else I would like to add concerns the story/prophecy of the Nine Shadows. If Oda is serious about picking up that story thread and highlighting it, he could do so in this climatic moment where Kaido has been overpowered by Luffy (the punch will knock Kaido down). This could be the moment where Kaido awakens his powers requiring the Nine Shadows to gather together to fully defeat Kaido. I have expressed in the past that the setting for Kaido's defeat being the execution site of Oden would be very symbolic for Wano and the story. This 20 year long Night for Wano began on the day and in the place Oden was executed. Dawn may arise for Wano in the same place as Kaido falls there. This would require the fight to transition from the sky toward the Flower Capital.
What I suspected to happen last year:
@Syphin:While Kaido and Luffy are on Onigashima, it appears the battle will involve just the two of them. Kaido will come to reevaluate his view on Luffy. During that time Yamato may end assisting Momonosuke - Momo works best when he has others guiding and supporting him. Eventually, I suspect the battle between Luffy and Kaido will relocate to the Flower Capital, specifically where Oden's hour long execution took place. Kaido has been haunted by Oden since the raid began and having his fight conclude in the place where he chose to execute Oden, who mentioned to him that his soul will live on after his death, seems fitting to conclude Kaido's reign over Wano. Yamato will be present during this moment as well as the other "shadows". Big Mom will also be there to witness the fall of Kaido.
Oden's execution site may also be where Momonosuke cancels his Dragon transformation and returns to his human form, which would look like a certain figure that would bring the people of Wano to tears (those with a heart at least).
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So that the READERS know it is happening, and to raise the stakes and drama.
Sure, logically it makes sense they just use it on the regularly, dramatically that's complete garbage and fails to escalate their threat so for all intents and purposes it doesn't exist.
This, plus Oda hasn't explained the 'rules' of awakening yet. He knows readers can't instinctively recognize when an awakening has occurred. In the past, he would explain when Haki is being used, before developing visual cues and then trusting the reader to know what's going on.
That's why I'm confident Kaido hasn't awakened yet.
As for holding back, it does make sense.
When you run a marathon, you don't sprint out the gate. You pace yourself. Awakening drains Haki, which makes sense. The will of the fruit is more fully manifest and takes greater will from its wielder to maintain control.
Big Mom didn't take Law & Kid seriously. She turned her back on them and even willingly endured Kid's rail gun attack. Even as she fell from Onigashima, it was made abundantly clear she wasn't overpowered, only outmaneuvered. Which doesn't take away from law & Kid's victory. Strategy is important. But in a colosseum / arena type match, Big Mom would have easily won. She simply didn't need to use awakening. Or at last she didn't believe she needed to. And Oda emphasized this hubris as she boasted the Emperors have reigned for decades - before the Worst Generation were even born (for the most part).
By this same logic, Kaido could have used his flame dragon attack during any of the earlier phases of the battle to easily kill Luffy, the Scabbards, the Worst Generation.
As Robby said, it makes sense from a writing perspective to gradually raise the ceiling on the villain's power to notch up the tension, but also, there is an in-world explanation. In both senses, it's a matter of pacing.
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BM sacrificed a year of her life to keep fighting the Worst Gens.
That makes is look like she was being serious in that fight.
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BM sacrificed a year of her life to keep fighting the Worst Gens.
That makes is look like she was being serious in that fight.
Meanwhile, Law was tapping into his magical D power stamina to keep spamming awakening.
and Kidd, will powered his way past the stamina.
Its like because you are a "good" guy, you can win these fights. While the bad guys have to do grandiose moves that took them years to master and even then its not enough.
Its like Ichigo learning bankai yesterday and beating a captain that spent a thousand years to master his(at least Kubo had the decency to insinuate he was hloding back)
I just think I am too old to relate to these typical shounen tropes of children beating adults
