**Hold up, I just cheacked Greg's site and there were no mention of speed in the databook stats. Here are Zoro's as an example:
Adventuresome: 3
Strength: 6
Intelligence: 2
Dexterity: 4
Fashion Sense: 2
Curiosity: 3**
**Hold up, I just cheacked Greg's site and there were no mention of speed in the databook stats. Here are Zoro's as an example:
Adventuresome: 3
Strength: 6
Intelligence: 2
Dexterity: 4
Fashion Sense: 2
Curiosity: 3**
The biggest thing to consider are that Franky and Luffy are the only two fighters that use their entire body as a weapon. Zoro and Chopper only use their upper body strength, Sanji uses his leg strength, Nami and Usopp depend on equipment/intelligence, and Robin relies solely on the abiilities of her Devil Fruit, putting her in a class by himself.
And thank you, Shishou, that was my whole point. Assuming Franky is fully fueled, he starts the battle giving it his all. Luffy and Sanji actually take the time to wear their opponents down then bring out their strongest attacks. Zoro usually defeats his opponents fast enough that doesn't require him to "Power-up", per-se. Chopper must use drug enhancements and discover his opponent's weakpoint before he can defeat them. His fight against Kumadori wasn't really a fight because he took too much of his enhancement drug and went out of control. It's akin to when Gohan became an Oozaru: He had no control over it and was beating the shit out of everyone and everything until Kururin cut off his tail. In Chopper's case, Franky knocked him into the water.
At the start of a battle, with Franky fully fueled, without blood doping, without diablo leg, without wtfasura moves, Franky is on par if not stronger than Luffy.
That was my whole point.
Geese um yeah i dont see why it matters if he used a technique rather than brute strenght to do it he still broke thru it,
It matters because I was specifically referring to the difference between Franky and Sanji as far as physical power.
the only point i was questioning was that sanji couldnt even break thru Bluenoes tekkai which im 110% positive he can since he got thru the stronger tekkai of Jabs and kicked his tail.
He couldn't possibly break tekkai by conventional physical means, whereas Franky easily could, even when he was weakened. It speaks volumes of Franky's physical prowess.
Dodging a gunshot is a heck of a lot easier than dodging a bullet.
Sanji is as fast/faster than a bullet. Soru was stated as being at least as fast as Shakushi - which is faster than bullet speed- in a recent SBS. Now keep in mind, Sanji easily kept up with Jyabura's Soru.
Except ODA SAID ZORO, SANJI, AND NAMI HAVE A SPEED OF "4".
What on earth are you talking about? That smells like a bunch of fanon nonsense like. And by the way, Nami is nowhere near as fast as Zoro or Sanji. Re-read the Whiskey Peak scene.
@Fire Fist:
At the start of a battle, with Franky fully fueled, without blood doping, without diablo leg, without wtfasura moves, Franky is on par if not stronger than Luffy.
That cannot be proven until it is shown. Speculation can occur until the Earth shits out flying giraffes, and nothing will change.
All in all Franky just isn't a factor yet. He hasn't shown anything to say he's on par with Sanji, Luffy or Zoro despite his huge potential and latent power. Until he actually does something on par with that of Sanji (who actually had his power acknowledged by Rucci) and/or Zoro, this whole debate is just a mazeful merry go round
EXACTLY. But a lot of people loves Franky, so some excuses needs to pop up from nowhere to justify the fact he fought a hugely weaker opponent than Zoro or Sanji's. I really like Franky, but damn, it'll be funny as hell if he's not joining after all this.
Btw, Nami is fast stealing, alright, not fighting or dodging. I doubt we'll see she doing something like this anytime.
http://groups.msn.com/onepiecemangav-3/chapter386.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=8137
Sorry but Sanji got beat up by a woman
Of course excuses won't pop up from nowhere in that case to justify the fact Sanji got absolutely ruined by a fighter far inferior to Franky's opponent.
Right? RIGHT???
@Cap'n:
Sorry but Sanji got beat up by a woman
Yeah, he did, but he kind of let her. Still, that was an annoying period for Sanji fans huh? I can't believe how many whiners there were.
Come to think of it, all the SHs have gone through a little smearing in this arc.
Luffy: At the mansion, went ahead without telling the crew and got stuck in a building. That's not good captaining, his crew could has been killed by such a mistake!
Zoro: Got stuck in a chimney. Clearly, his second worst enemy since stairs. Also, this and Luffy's act wasted time in retrieving Robin.
Sanji: Beat by Calipha cause he refused to hit a women, despite the fact that Robin was in danger. Of course, the above mistakes endangered their mission too. Also, was sneaking on the train himself such a good idea? Really, letting the crew in on this may have been a better idea, cause without Franky he would have been killed.
Usopp: Getting beat by Franky Family and losing the money. Ouch. Also, he got kicked out of the crew. Also, kind of lost to Jyabura. I say "kind of" cause Sanji interrupted the slaughter.
Nami: She was useless there for awhile. Plus, she lost track of Usopp. I think that's a noteworthy mistake. Also, she kind of lost of Kumadori.
Chopper: Well…he failed the key mission I guess. Not much here.
Franky: Got beat down several times by some CP9.
Robin: Beat down by Spandam. Ouch. Oh, and she kind of betrayed the crew for awhile.
Of course, all the SHs got redemption for these in a way. Some are still waiting for it cough. I'm just saying, let these brief flaws go. Every SH can't win all the time or else we'd have no story.
Back on topic, come to think of it, Franky would never by in that situation with Calipha would he? No only does he have more armor, but he might actualy hit a girl.
Yeah, he did, but he kind of let her.
STOP POPPING UP EXCUSES FROM NOWHERE THIS IS SERIOUS
I mean, even if Sanji refused to fight back, what can a woman do to him? Refuse to cook him dinner?
It's like if you let a retard beat you in a fight, you'd just fall over once and tell him you lost, so he can cheer and celebrate by beating on garbage cans with sticks. You wouldn't be completely battered and bruised and on the brink of death.
Letting your opponent beat you up is already a proof of weakness. Getting hurt by said opponent, who could barely do a scratch to the less resilient member of the crew by a large margin, is pathetic.
Back on topic, come to think of it, Franky would never by in that situation with Calipha would he? No only does he have more armor, but he might actualy hit a girl.
Franky would destroy Calipha. What's she gonna do? Make him rust with her Awa Awa no Mi? Yeah, that's gonna work… in about a month. Unless Calipha knew to touch his back (Which she doesn't), she'd be touching his cyborg body and her power wouldn't do anything.
It's pretty clear no one else has reservations about hurting woman. Usopp beat the tar outta Ms. Merry Christmas, Zoro maimed a crapload of women at Whiskey Peak, Luffy punched Alvida and Ms. Valentine (Several times), and hell, even Karue assaulted Ms. Goldenweek.
@Cap'n:
I mean, even if Sanji refused to fight back, what can a woman do to him? Refuse to cook him dinner?
It's like if you let a retard beat you in a fight, you'd just fall over once and tell him you lost, so he can cheer and celebrate by beating on garbage cans with sticks. You wouldn't be completely battered and bruised and on the brink of death.
Ah, that's good ol'fashin sexism, and mocking retards too! Dude, Calipha still had roushiki. If Sanji "let her" she could poke him full of holes and cut him up with storm leg–sort of like letting your wife stab you with the kitchen knife. Still though, it was clearly a shameful moment for Sanji--he really couldn't hit Calipha with Robin on the line? For shame, putting yourself ahead of the crew! Yes, clearly Sanji was the most disgraced character in Enies Lobby.
And yet, did such a shame have to be redeemed by beating Jyabura AND outsmarting the Buster Call? One or the other would have been fine.
Oh yeah, topic. Yeah, it's true. Franky would never be in that situation. Or Zoro for that matter…oh wait, Kuina.
Edit: You know, it might not be clear here that I disaprove of sexism and mocking "mentally handicapped." Guess I shouldn't have used sarcasm.
Yes, clearly Sanji was the most disgraced character in Enies Lobby.
I see what you did there.
Don't try to take the spotlight of disgrace away from our good old snot nosed cheerleader ( Malintex_Terek)
Ah, that's good ol'fashin sexism, and mocking retards too!
Yea I'm done with this topic, no point in arguing with self hating retards.
Letting your opponent beat you up is already a proof of weakness. Getting hurt by said opponent, who could barely do a scratch to the less resilient member of the crew by a large margin, is pathetic.
Letting your opponent beat you up is a proof of weakness?
Luffy and Zoro let themselves get beat up by Bellamy and his crew.
Shanks let himself get harassed and attack by Higuma the bear.
The only difference is that Sanji was supposed to fight her. I fail to see how his decision not to makes him weak, however. He's either both weak and strong in his convictions (weak in his conviction to save Robin, strong in his conviction to not harm women), or nothing at all. It does not logically follow that because of that that he's a weak fighter, however.
God, I love ForumPiece. Gotta love how people (on all sides of whatever "argument" is going on here) conveniently ignore every example but the one that proves their point, or ignore an entire manga's worth of evidence in order to suggest that Norland is related to Mihawk, or something equally ridiculous.
Yeah, I stick to what I said; when you MUST defeat your opponent to stop your supposedly precious friend from getting tortured for the rest of her life, and you let yourself get beaten up, it's a clear cut proof of weakness. No matter how many "excuses" Sanji fans will try and come up with.
Letting your opponent beat you up is a proof of weakness?
Luffy and Zoro let themselves get beat up by Bellamy and his crew.
Shanks let himself get harassed and attack by Higuma the bear.
Yes, but they weren't beaten up by women. That's the difference.
I agree with Aldrich, If one of my family members is in deep sh** and a women is in my way preventing me from saving them, I'm taking no shortcuts (this coming from a guy who would never put his on a woman). Desperate times call for desperate measures.
@Cap'n:
Yes, but they weren't beaten up by women. That's the difference.
How is getting beat by a women really important here? Calipha clearly had the strength to hurt Sanji, and Calipha was at least far too strong to not fight back against.
Alright, you beat me. Now go yell and eat fire ants and bang on pots and kettles
@Cap'n:
Yes, but they weren't beaten up by women. That's the difference.
**What the hell is wrong with you?
:::Sanji had the physical capabilities to destroy Calipha, this much is obvious. However, his morals went against hitting her. The thing is, he didn't have to lay a finger on her. He could have easily dodged every attack and stole her key. But he was to weak to women to do even that.**
@Octogon:
The thing is, he didn't have to lay a finger on her. He could have easily dodged every attack and stole her key. But he was to weak to women to do even that.
Now this, I disagree with. Sanji was faster and more skilled then Calipha, but he couldn't dodge every attack, i.e. his advantage wasn't that huge. That one shigan she did showed that. And getting close enough to steal the key would get him in range for more shiguns.
Sanji was stronger, but Sanji's morals made beating him esay for Calipha.
What are you guys talking abouth, sanji beat the wolf guy who is stronger than the cpu girl.
Sanji is strong, pretty much the same as zorro or solo. (beside zorro uses swords, sanji doesn't need weapons to fight, he doesn't even uses his hands.(not that he can't). Sanji and nami, ussop are the smarter of the group.
How come I don't see my sanji avatar, some one help me with my avatar issue.
@Octogon:
What the hell is wrong with you?
:::Sanji had the physical capabilities to destroy Calipha, this much is obvious. However, his morals went against hitting her. The thing is, he didn't have to lay a finger on her. He could have easily dodged every attack and stole her key. But he was to weak to women to do even that.
I was wondering why Sanji didn't just take her key in the first place instead of fighting. I think his weakness to women will be a key factor in upcoming arc.
On a side-note: Octogon, my grandmother has the same name as the one in your sig. Odd
Sanji should've used his abilities to move at the speed of light to dodge Califa's blows and take her key.
I was wondering why Sanji didn't just take her key in the first place instead of fighting. I think his weakness to women will be a key factor in upcoming arc.
On a side-note: Octogon, my grandmother has the same name as the one in your sig. Odd
Just cause Zoro and Sanji has incredible strength doesn't mean they can just "do everything" just like that. They have limits here and there.
Sanji should've used his abilities to move at the speed of light to dodge Califa's blows and take her key.
That doesn't always work, Calipha at least had enough speed to catch Sanji. Sanji and Zoro's constant "dashing and owning minions" is messing up perspective here, not everything is child's play for these people. For example, Zoro got stuck in a chimeny yet can cut a train in half. They are mighty but not perfect.
Now this, I disagree with. Sanji was faster and more skilled then Calipha, but he couldn't dodge every attack, i.e. his advantage wasn't that huge. That one shigan she did showed that. And getting close enough to steal the key would get him in range for more shiguns.
Sanji was stronger, but Sanji's morals made beating him esay for Calipha.
**Yeah, it was.
16 character no jutsu.**
SANJI CAN DODGE BULLETS
I CARVED THE SWIRLED EYEBROW INTO MY OWN FACe!!!!!
Move over Cap'n, I need some room to jump in.
A "point blank" shot would imply Cricket had the gun to Sanji's forehead, which wasn't the case, and Sanji wouldn't need to move at bullet speed to avoid the shot since Cricket was pretty slow on the trigger due to his bends.
@Octogon:
And you are W-R-O-N-G.
That means nothing from a person who has consistently put forth among the most logically insulting posts in the history of this forum. You're only a hair above Voodzik and a foot behind onemoment.
Sanji's job isn't to fight. Sanji's job is to cook. Chopper's job is heal people. Nami's job is to navigate. Zoro's job is to fight, Luffy's job is to fight/lead, Usopp's job is to fight, and Robin's job doesn't have any practical merit on the ship so she's a fighter too.
Now, of that group, Robin, Luffy, and Zoro clearly outweigh Sanji's fighting abilities. They're totally out of his league; the next closest match would be Usopp, and lumping anyone together with Usopp is a clear and definite indication of his fighting prowess.
Sanji is the weakest of the "monsters" on the ship, and he's in a perpetual one-sided rivalry with Zoro. It's the same relationship between Naruto and Sasuke, Lucci and Jyabura, right down to the imitation pets; Lucci has a pigeon, Jyabura a chicken, Zoro's is Chopper while Sanji's is Usopp.
@Octogon:
Did it look like he was lying? Goddam it Terek, it's common sense.
Instead of further meaningless rebuttle let's defer to Carter for some fine words of wisdom: "I AM A BIG SCARY EVIL LOOKING WOLF. THERE IS NO REASON YOU SHOULD NOT DOUBT ANYTHING I SAY, ESPECIALLY DURING A COMBAT SITUATION".
Yeah, so, if Usopp believed Jyabura, and you belived Jyabura, does that mean Octogon = Usopp???
@Octogon:
Please, tell me a reason he wouldn't refill. Just one.
A lack of cola? You're assuming something that wasn't shown on screen. At the end of the Fukurou fight, Franky had a little less than .5 bottles of cola left. As I promised earlier, I'll look into the usage after that fight.
For the record, I don't trust these databooks. Someething about them screams BS, even if Oda himself made them. Ranks of "4" or "7" probably aren't as limiting as they sound. No, Nami is not as fast as Sanji.
What did I say, people? Get ready for fun!
Except ODA SAID ZORO, SANJI, AND NAMI HAVE A SPEED OF "4". If you dare say, "well that's old so I choose not to believe it" you're an idiot; if Oda says something, it's fact until he changes it via SBS or the manga. Only in the case of contradictions or ambiguities do we really need to bring up such trivial issues.
…
Blueno and Fukurou seemed to be able to use momentum or move slightly in Tekkai. However, Jyabura can move much more fluidly.
After looking through the manga, I can conclude Jyabs is the only one who can run/use leg Rokushiki when using Tekkai, which is probably what he meant by "move". It's not clear if Fukurou was walking when he was boxing Franky but I wouldn't be surprised, and Blueno didn't use many complex movements whenever he used Tekkai.
That being said, Tekkai likely hardens a user's muscles in such a way that prevent him/her from using many techniques. It's like a turtle withdrawing into a shell; the Tekkai Gou is a step up from that as a full-body brace, and Jyabs' Tekkai is on the same level since he can walk/run while using it.
You know, these ranks are getting annoying, the "tier" ranks at least. There are too many different factors. Robin, for example, could possibly beat all the SHs except Luffy, yet may be physically weaker then Usopp.
Do not confuse "winning" with "power"; if matches were flat out determined by a person's training, there wouldn't be any point to the match. Competing or fighting takes into account a lot of stuff; in terms of raw power, we have
Gear 3 Luffy > Gear 2 Luffy > Luffy = Zoro > Franky = Sanji > Chopper > Usopp > Robin > Nami
For "ability to win a fight",
Robin > Luffy > Zoro > Sanji = Franky > Nami > Chopper > Usopp
So, yes, there are different factors, but they're not total unknowns and we can explain them on a one dimensional plane.
Also, keep this in mind with Franky–we don't know how much cola each attack uses. Coup de vent can use 1.5 to 1 liter of cola. The rest of his attacks, while they must use some, barely drain it. After using his "coup de poo" Franky stated that he had 1 bottle left and that coup do poo used 1.5. So, that mean that all his attacks between his last refill and his fight with Nero used less then .5 cola.
Correct, thought you're a little mixed-up; Franky used 1.5 in Coup de Vent on Fukurou, with only 1.0 for Coup de Poo. The mini-CDV takes almost nothing to use, and after that I'm not sure if Franky used anymore attacks before blowing away the GM.
Using CDV on Fukurou was overkill, though.
Usopp should've used his speed-of-light dodging skills (learned while he was dodging Eneru's bolts of lightning, lol, read the manga again you n00bs) to pwn Jyabura, Calipha, Aoikiji, Lucci, and every other CP9 member, take all their keys, punch Luffy so hard he coughs up his Gomu Gomu fruit, even though he digested it years ago, and eat the fruit, so he can become a rubber hu-man! That'd be so k00l amirite?
…If that's what this thread is degenerating into, then I'm out.
So WHAT if some people are fans of Sanji? There are other people in this thread who're fans of Nami. Or fans of Ussop. Or fans of Luffy. Or fans of Zoro. Or fans of freaking Paulie. Preferring one character over the others doesn't automatically make your point moot. And the Sanji fans haven't said anything so ridiculous that they should be dismissed outright. Most of the strawhats have dodged gunfire at one point are another.
I wonder how some people on this forum can read this manga at all. Where are the power levelslol? Too much charakter development. Too many speech bubbles. Too much Sanji/too little Sanji. One Piece should be about Sanji's quest to become Pirate King - bump this Luffy nonsense. In fact, let's get rid of all the Strawhats who aren't Sanji. That'd rock so hard.
@Cap'n:
SANJI CAN DODGE BULLETS
I CARVED THE SWIRLED EYEBROW INTO MY OWN FACe!!!!!
Calipha could actually do that too. What I'm saying is, Calipha had enough strength that Sanji couldn't beat her without attacking, is that so much? And Calipha took advantage, it's much easier to attack when you don't have to worry about defending or evading.
And with that, Calipha kicked Sanji's ass. 610 douriki is enough to beat Sanji when he refuses to fight back.
sometimes i wish the internet would just derail and burn in a fire
sometimes i wish the internet would just derail and burn in a fire
…May I make that quote my sig?
sure, go ahead man
After looking through the manga, I can conclude Jyabs is the only one who can run/use leg Rokushiki when using Tekkai, which is probably what he meant by "move". It's not clear if Fukurou was walking when he was boxing Franky but I wouldn't be surprised, and Blueno didn't use many complex movements whenever he used Tekkai.
Huh? That's kind of what I meant when I said that Jyabura can move fluidly. Blueno and Fukurou could only do simple movements, so Jyabura was the only one who could really "move" with Tekkai.
Correct, thought you're a little mixed-up; Franky used 1.5 in Coup de Vent on Fukurou, with only 1.0 for Coup de Poo. The mini-CDV takes almost nothing to use, and after that I'm not sure if Franky used anymore attacks before blowing away the GM.
Using CDV on Fukurou was overkill, though.
Actually, I was referring to the Coup do Poo used to break out Robin. After that, Franky didn't have enough cola to do another Coup do Vent. I forget the exact amount of cola, but my point was that his other techniques use very little cola.
And yes, CDV was and Franky could have easily used another Strong hammer to win the match (maybe) but I don't think that Franky could reach Fukurou with another attack whiile using centaur form. Strong Right may not be enough.
Other wise, I agree with the stuff I deleted.
That means nothing from a person who has consistently put forth among the most logically insulting posts in the history of this forum. You're only a hair above Voodzik and a foot behind onemoment.
I can't say I'm surprised from this comment. I was expecting something of the sort from you.
Sanji's job isn't to fight. Sanji's job is to cook. Chopper's job is heal people. Nami's job is to navigate. Zoro's job is to fight, Luffy's job is to fight/lead, Usopp's job is to fight, and Robin's job doesn't have any practical merit on the ship so she's a fighter too.
The obvious has been stated.
Now, of that group, Robin, Luffy, and Zoro clearly outweigh Sanji's fighting abilities. They're totally out of his league; the next closest match would be Usopp, and lumping anyone together with Usopp is a clear and definite indication of his fighting prowess.
**Do you have any evidence or proof? No? Thought so.
Besides, even if you correct (which you aren't, as everything points against you), this doesn't tell me that Sanji is weak. Now does it?**
Sanji is the weakest of the "monsters" on the ship, and he's in a perpetual one-sided rivalry with Zoro. It's the same relationship between Naruto and Sasuke, Lucci and Jyabura, right down to the imitation pets; Lucci has a pigeon, Jyabura a chicken, Zoro's is Chopper while Sanji's is Usopp.
I disagree, but does that matter? No. Because no matter what you try and do, Sanji is either the third or second strongest on the ship so far. Not weak.
Instead of further meaningless rebuttle let's defer to Carter for some fine words of wisdom: "I AM A BIG SCARY EVIL LOOKING WOLF. THERE IS NO REASON YOU SHOULD NOT DOUBT ANYTHING I SAY, ESPECIALLY DURING A COMBAT SITUATION".
Yeah, so, if Usopp believed Jyabura, and you belived Jyabura, does that mean Octogon = Usopp???
I'd believe Jabura if he told me he could talk. But you wouldn't.
A lack of cola? You're assuming something that wasn't shown on screen. At the end of the Fukurou fight, Franky had a little less than .5 bottles of cola left. As I promised earlier, I'll look into the usage after that fight.
How big was that fridge? I can assure you, there's a lot of cola in there. In a situation like this, what a minute (at the most) to refill one's strengh? Like I said, there's no reason he wouldn't.
For the record, I think that Sanji is in competitive range with Zoro, but ultimately couldn't beat him. Still, it'd be a good fight, something like Zoro vs. Luffy.
Though I see some point in Sanji being the "weakest monster." I don't think he can take the same damage as the rest of the SHs, and his legs may very well be weaker then Luffy's punches and kick. Baratie showed us that Sanji could only take so much–he has a limit, albeit a high one. However, I think this is balanced out by Sanji attack speed, evasion, and attacks to specific parts of the body.
For the record, I think that Sanji is in competitive range with Zoro, but ultimately couldn't beat him. Still, it'd be a good fight, something like Zoro vs. Luffy.
**Agreeeeeeeeeeeed.
::
and just so everyone knows. Cricket had the gun right in front of Sanji's face. This is obvious if you look at their position in the first panel and how Sanji was forced to dodge by moving backwards instead of to the side.**
Now wait a minute, Octogon, don't dismiss what Majintek is saying offhand. He makes some very good points.
It isn't at all unreasonable to say that Luffy, Zoro, AND Robin are stronger than Sanji, because for all intents and purposes (while Robin is a debateable factor) Luffy is stronger than him. And he's close with Zoro. I really don't know where to put Robin because she should be able to beat every Strawhat that isn't Luffy. Now, I don't agree that he's out of their league, but no matter what our opinions are, and no matter how long we argue or try to convince each other, there really isn't any kind of definite proof to suggest either.
I think the next closest however is Nami or Chopper, though. Ussop really hasn't shown much, even when given the opportunity to.
Sanji probably IS the weakest monster of the group. He certainly isn't the strongest, and nothing has indicated that he's stronger than Zoro… only as strong AT BEST.
When it comes to Franky, pretty much everything is up for grabs, IMHO. We probably won't know until the next big arc when everyone has a match up.
Listen to what he's saying because, come on, I know you dismissed that Zoro's pet is Chopper and Sanji's pet is Ussop thing as soon as you read it, but you KNOW it's true.
**I didn't dismiss anything. I stated I disagree with something, but I also stated that doesn't matter.
I'm just saying Sanji isn't weak. Him being the weakest monster doesn't make him weak.
In fact I agree that Sanji is weaker than Zoro and Luffy, just not how Terek thinks.**
Zoro has yet to lose to a woman so I don't see how his power level is equal to Sanji's
@Octogon:
**I didn't dismiss anything. I stated I disagree with something, but I also stated that doesn't matter.
I'm just saying Sanji isn't weak. Him being the weakest monster doesn't make him weak.**
Well good. Though come to think of it, whenever we get a hero fight in this show, the SHs somehow all become even with each other (or better then average for Usopp). All signs pointed to Zoro being weaker then Luffy, but they fought evenly at Whiskey Peak.
I bet a fight between Sanji and Luffy wouldn't be nearly as one sided as some people think, esp. with fire leg now. In fact, I can imagine that Sanji could use his speed kicks to bounce Luffy's head against a wall like a paddeball. And it wouldn't even with a decision victor either. Maybe.
And that's why I think most vs. threads are BS.
Zoro has yet to lose to a woman so I don't see how his power level is equal to Sanji's
Kuina. 2001 times. And what is with you and losing to women?
Let's not forget that Robin could kick Sanji's ass too, and maybe even Zoro's at the same time. Her powers are funny like that.
@Octogon:
I'm just saying Sanji isn't weak. Him being the weakest monster doesn't make him weak.
You're applying a double standard to Sanji, so I'm not surprised that your points are confusing. If Sanji is the weakest monster, he's weak among the monsters; he's not weak in comparison to the folks in Grand Line, nor is he weak in comparison to Usopp, Nami, or Chopper. It's all on different levels of weakness.
Luffy's gambit is to become the strongest on all levels (the world), Zoro's is to become the most skilled on all levels (the world). Sanji lacks the ambition to do this, which is why I called the rivalry "one-sided"; it was nothing more than Sanji trying to show off to Zoro that he's not a pushover, which might be the case but it sure doesn't imply Sanji is a match for Zoro.
That's more than can be said for Usopp, though.
Kuina. 2001 times. And what is with you and losing to women?
You know, I'm surprised I didn't remember that.
Ha. And Zoro was TRYING. Not standing there and taking it because of his honor.
But seriously, what's up with the sexism?
@Cap'n:
Zoro has yet to lose to a woman so I don't see how his power level is equal to Sanji's
**There is something very wrong with you.
@ Onemonent: I seriously doubt Robin can come close to beating the top three. Assuming Sanji didn't have his weakness for women.
But I won't get into that now.
@ Terek: Really the differance between him and the other two are miniscule. And all you ever said was that Sanji is weak. Which isn't the case even among the monsters. Him being the weakest of them doesn't make him weak cmpared to them.**
You're applying a double standard to Sanji, so I'm not surprised that your points are confusing. If Sanji is the weakest monster, he's weak among the monsters; he's not weak in comparison to the folks in Grand Line, nor is he weak in comparison to Usopp, Nami, or Chopper. It's all on different levels of weakness.
Luffy's gambit is to become the strongest on all levels (the world), Zoro's is to become the most skilled on all levels (the world). Sanji lacks the ambition to do this, which is why I called the rivalry "one-sided"; it was nothing more than Sanji trying to show off to Zoro that he's not a pushover, which might be the case but it sure doesn't imply Sanji is a match for Zoro.
That's more than can be said for Usopp, though.
Interesting point. I suppose that if being the weakest of the group makes you weak, then yes Sanji is weak. However, Sanji really isn't a pushover for Zoro, Luffy, and maybe not Robin. He'd give them a hell of a lot of pain and torment before he went down, if he went down. Really, while I think that Sanji would most likely lose to these three, he's not weak compared to them as he could fight with them somewhat evenly. It's like 9.6 vs. a bunch of 10s.
@Octogon:
There is something very wrong with you.
@ Onemonent: I seriously doubt Robin can come close to beating the top three. Assuming Sanji didn't have his weakness for women.
But I won't get into that now.
Yes, there is someone off with Carter.
However, I didn't say anything about that top three crap, I said that Robin could beat Sanji and Zoro–most likely Sanji. How could they resist Robin clutch attack? Assuming that the "they will be too strong and overpower Robin's arms" is true, that could only apply to Zoro, as Sanji hasn't shown many feats of super upper body strength. Hell, Usopp might be able to beat him in an arm wrestling match for all we know.
And this is even assuming that they can overpower Robin's arm--no one has shown to be able to do that yet. It's an unproven theory.