@Big:
That's even worse than arguing for O-Tama. :getlost:
What is, arguing for Carrot?
@Big:
That's even worse than arguing for O-Tama. :getlost:
What is, arguing for Carrot?
I think there’s going to be a moment when Oda explains why Carrot is good at Sulong at her age. I mean it is cliche in anime to have protégé characters and all but whenever it’s done in One Piece there’s always an explanation nonetheless even one as simple as the guy worked really really hard even as a little kid.
Twice Oda pointed out how weird it is that Carrot can do Sulong at her age and in the very same arc were introduced to a Veteran Pekoms who can’t do Sulong properly. This power seems to be only mastered by the top fighters of the Minks and so there can’t even be 3 dozens of those. And yet Carrot is hinted to be the youngest of to be able to do this when not being a top fighter herself.
As long as Oda doesn’t slip into the habits of other mangaka of having protégés for the sake then there’s definitely more happening with Carrot since he keeps bringing it up himself
For me the only pro carrot argument is her time in the crew. But Samurais have that too.
What is, arguing for Carrot?
I belong to the faction that quite obviously doesn't think she's gonna join. See my signature.
If nothing ele, the arguments against her put forward years ago convinced me personally.
@Big:
I belong to the faction that quite obviously doesn't think she's gonna join. See my signature.
If nothing ele, the arguments against her put forward years ago convinced me personally.
No, I get that you don't think she'll join, that's all well and good. What I don't get is how you can think a little 8-year-old with no battle prowess is a less crazy choice.
No, I get that you don't think she'll join, that's all well and good. What I don't get is how you can think a little 8-year-old with no battle prowess is a less crazy choice.
You got me here, Shift.
It was a needlessly provocative statement, my intention was probably to ridicule Carrot fans and that's overblown. I'm sorry.
Still, O-tama would have had some kind of "Child Bonus". Than people would answer "But the crew's nestling is Chopper". That analogy though would backfire since Carrot has numerous other attributes which makes herself some kind of Chopper clone. And then we're at it again.
I still think it's likelier that someone in Wano would join. The arc will probably account for a really huge number of chapters and than we lilely don't have the time for another big "joining arc" besides Elbaf. For economic reasons, I think would lift pressure of Oda if he were to close the open membership question's at the latest at Wano or Elbaf. Since Wano is likely the bigger of the two arc's (and we still have much to see here in terms of regions and characters), the opportunity here for one last crewmember is bigger in my opinion. Jinbe's joining is all but formalized by now at least.
@Big:
You got me here, Shift.
It was a needlessly provocative statement, my intention was probably to ridicule Carrot fans and that's overblown. I'm sorry.
It's okay. Thanks for saying that. :)
I still think it's likelier that someone in Wano would join. The arc will probably account for a really huge number of chapters and than we lilely don't have the time for another big "joining arc" besides Elbaf. For economic reasons, I think would lift pressure of Oda if he were to close the open membership question's at the latest at Wano or Elbaf. Since Wano is likely the bigger of the two arc's (and we still have much to see here in terms of regions and characters), the opportunity here for one last crewmember is bigger in my opinion. Jinbe's joining is all but formalized by now at least.
It's quite possible, there's still some time before the Fire Festival. There's the mysterious Shutenmaru and the whereabouts (and current age) of Lady Hiyori to consider. The possibilities are still open.
Wasn't it suggested that Tama would 'super grow' up by the end of Wano? :ninja:
Wasn't it suggested that Tama would 'super grow' up by the end of Wano? :ninja:
The Time Time Fruit wouldn't do that, it can only bring someone at their current age to a point in the future, as that's what happened to Momo.
The Time Time Fruit wouldn't do that, it can only bring someone at their current age to a point in the future, as that's what happened to Momo.
Though I was kidding and reminiscing about a suggestion from a little while back, you are correct.
No, I get that you don't think she'll join, that's all well and good. What I don't get is how you can think a little 8-year-old with no battle prowess is a less crazy choice.
The difference here is that Otama support has already pretty much died, while arguments against all logic for Carrot keep persisting.
The difference here is that Otama support has already pretty much died, while arguments against all logic for Carrot keep persisting.
That tends to happen with characters who are still part of the story and somewhat viable.
Pedro's death affected Brooke, Nami, and Chopper as well.
Yeah, but his final words were to Carrot.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Yes and that's the difference: Some people enjoy certain characters so much that they're looking for the smallest indicators/supposed "confirmations" why said person would become a permanent part of the story. Other people are looking at the story itself and indicators for who will become a regular and then base their theories around that. I feel like support for any characters introduced within the last couple of years belongs to the first category.
I liked Carrot from the start, but I didn't think she would actually join until Pedro blew up and passed on his will. Then She spent so much time in the crow's nest, and then came the vol. 88 cover to support that theory. So its by looking at the story that I came to the conclusion that she would join. Not just because I like her as a character.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Well to be fair, IF a Wano citizen is to become the next crewmate, his/her flashback probably overlaps a lot with the most recent history of Wano. We are still owed a proper flashback about Oden that was suspiciously left out when Kinemon explained everything to the Straw Hats. Carrot is currently only relevant to the plot because she just returned with the Straw Hats and the Minks are allied. She doesn't have any super personal business there.
Carrot will also be involved in the inevitable "new dawn" explanation, as per what Pedro told her.
I liked Carrot from the start, but I didn't think she would actually join until Pedro blew up and passed on his will. Then She spent so much time ib the crow's nest, and then came the vol. 88 cover to support that theory.
Exactly. Thanks for proving my point.
Carrot will also be involved in the inevitable "new dawn" explanation, as per what Pedro told her.
The point was however not understanding how Carrot could not be further explored within the Wano arc due to it being supposedly too packed. If I remember your arguments right, the whole "new dawn" shenanigans is about the Straw Hats being/contributing to it in the long run, by finding One Piece or whatever, and not exclusively tied to Wano. So I don't see how her involvement in that matter relates to her relevance during the Wano arc, especially if it's only an explanation about what exactly the New Dawn is supposed to be.
Exactly. Thanks for proving my point.
I guess I don't know what you mean by "the smallest indicators" then, because it took some pretty big things for me to think she would join. Especially since you were talking about that in the context of Perona. Perona never had a fraction of what Carrot has going for her.
The point was however not understanding how Carrot could not be further explored within the Wano arc due to it being supposedly too packed. If I remember your arguments right, the whole "new dawn" shenanigans is about the Straw Hats being/contributing to it in the long run, by finding One Piece or whatever, and not exclusively tied to Wano. So I don't see how her involvement in that matter relates to her relevance during the Wano arc, especially if it's only an explanation about what exactly the New Dawn is supposed to be.
Whatever the deal with the 'new dawn" will end up being, we know it will involve Carrot because of What Pedro told her before he died. That's the only point I'm making.
Perona has a defined relationship with both Zoro and Usopp, which is one more Straw Hat than Carrot has a defined relationship with (Chopper) lol. Even if she wasn't important to the plot, Perona at least stood out a ton thanks to her design, personality, and powers. The argument for her was still bad, but since she was already cool enough on her own people didn't try to play up every little minor thing like with Carrot.
but if the Dawn is logically connected to the One Piece, it'll involve the entire world, not just Carrot.
Perona has a defined relationship with both Zoro and Usopp, which is one more Straw Hat than Carrot has a defined relationship with (Chopper) lol. Even if she wasn't important to the plot, Perona at least stood out a ton thanks to her design, personality, and powers. The argument for her was still bad, but since she was already cool enough on her own people didn't try to play up every little minor thing like with Carrot.
Again. I think we're using different definitions of "minor" because I don't see how her mentor passing her his will with his dying breath, and her having a clear role on the ship can be described as minor little things when talking about someone's chances of joining. Also, Carrot has a defined relationship with Nami and Sanji too.
but if the Dawn is logically connected to the One Piece, it'll involve the entire world, not just Carrot.
The poneglyph will involve the entire world too, but those are still connected primarily to Robin.
Her relationship with Nami is "they're girls so they hang out" and her relationship with Sanji is "they're comfortable enough to cheer each other up over Pedro". With Chopper, there's more of a big brother-little sister dynamic that's used throughout WCI and not just barely existent like those other two.
Also you're making the assumption that Pedro is actually dead. When are they ever actually dead.
I guess I don't know what you mean by "the smallest indicators" then, because it took some pretty big things for me to think she would join. Especially since you were talking about that in the context of Perona. Perona never had a fraction of what Carrot has going for her.
Oh, that wasn't really about Perona anymore, it's just a general habit of this thread. Perona is just one of many examples. Also, people obviously disagree about what big things are and what not.
Again. I think we're using different definitions of "minor" because I don't see how her mentor passing her his will with his dying breath, and her having a clear role on the ship can be described as minor little things when talking about someone's chances of joining. Also, Carrot has a defined relationship with Nami and Sanji too.
I don't think Carrot even has the same kind of intimate relationship and admiration that all the other Straw Hats have shown towards their "mentor". And what kind of defined relationship does Carrot have with Nami and Sanji, and most important of all, Luffy?
Yes and that's the difference: Some people enjoy certain characters so much that they're looking for the smallest indicators/supposed "confirmations" why said person would become a permanent part of the story. Other people are looking at the story itself and indicators for who will become a regular and then base their theories around that. I feel like support for any characters introduced within the last couple of years belongs to the first category.
I didn’t care about Carrot from the start nor was I even involved in the next Nakama debates until that Pedro incident. I was even ambivalent since I sort of saw it as a waste that Oda wanted to make a tomboyish fun girl character involved heavily in the plot for the first time but then have her also be a sexy girl. This isn’t even me knocking on her design like everyone else here does, I can never understand the whole she isn’t unique or whatever people complain about. I just thought the personality would’ve been better in a less sexy body but then merchandising is a thing so. I chuck this up to a preference NOT some kind of factual argument.
Now of course, the actual arguments began after the Pedro thing. At that point, it just flashed in my head that Oda is going somewhere with this character and he did as the story went on. Around this time is when I discovered that this next nakama arguments had been happening thinking I was gonna be the first to announce that Oda might make Carrot the next. Thankfully I arrived at the tail end of the Pudding thing because I would’ve vehemently been opposed to that. So that’s about it.
I only got into this thing because Oda beat me over the head with it. And online, people had already created their ridiculous criteria about who should join and I even ended up agreeing with a few but quickly came to realize that people were using them as doctrines of some sort. That’s when I stepped away from analyzing covers or how or why characters have been joining or whatthey look like or whatever. I fully believed that Jinbei was joining and he barely followed any of those nonsense doctrines and the moment I, personally, analyzed Jinbei’s arc and why it’s different from the “criteria” of the old crew, I found that it’s quite smart of Oda not to rehash the old stuff and he probably couldn’t even actually do it anymore with how the story is going. Around then is when I found the parallels between what Oda is doing with jinbei and Carrot and that’s when I got convinced that I had cracked it.
I don’t actually think at this point that it’s a question of if she’ll join for me. It’s as certain as Jinbei. But of course when I get into arguments here with people flinging their criteria around like a gospel, I don’t respond by making my observations gospels. I posted them here once and that’s that. All I do know is argue against these “gospels” for fun and I guess I can get rude but that’s what happens when most of these “arguments” look like nothing to me.
A Logia would a fine addition to the crew.
croc :ninja:…....
no but seriously is there a logia that fits the 2 9 theory???
EDIT: Also whatever side ends up being right about carrot joining/not joining is gonna have bragging privileges for a long time
The way I see it, if Carrot really was supposed to be the last crewmember, the time for her and Luffy to bond would have been at the start of the Arc. Instead, Luffy bonded more with Tama, then he ever even acknowledged Carrot (Not saying Tama is going to join), and then she's barely visible in the allied forces panel.
I mean…that kind of says it all, really.
Her relationship with Nami is "they're girls so they hang out" and her relationship with Sanji is "they're comfortable enough to cheer each other up over Pedro".
I mean, you said that Perona and Usopp have a "defined relationship" and literally the only interaction they had outside of a regular fight was when Perona told Usopp to cheer up. If that counts, then those two definitely count.
Also you're making the assumption that Pedro is actually dead. When are they ever actually dead.
You still going on about this? I thought everyone had given up on that point by now. Even Robby has accepted Pedro's death.
In the context of what Robby said, he was just as much a normal part of FI's crowd as Carrot was a normal part of Zou's. “Crowd”, in this case, is the gang, the regulars, the in-crowd.
I mean he is encased in a bubble with two other Straw Hats. Hard to say he is among the entire crowd. Either way neither cover speaks about anyone's chances on joining.
That’s not my fault this time, I didn’t bring it back up. I’m pointing out why we shouldn’t be reading too much into this one, so you can ask Robby why he thinks we should be.
What I am trying to say is why this one and not others? Or vice versa? Has any color spread given an indication or clue that what it is to come?
I don't think Carrot even has the same kind of intimate relationship and admiration that all the other Straw Hats have shown towards their "mentor".
I don't know, she seemed pretty broken up about his death.
Now of course, the actual arguments began after the Pedro thing. At that point, it just flashed in my head that Oda is going somewhere with this character and he did as the story went on. Around this time is when I discovered that this next nakama arguments had been happening thinking I was gonna be the first to announce that Oda might make Carrot the next. Thankfully I arrived at the tail end of the Pudding thing because I would’ve vehemently been opposed to that. So that’s about it.
I'm pretty sure the "arguments" for Carrot started when she was discovered being a stowaway after leaving Zou. Maybe even before then. Also, people thought the same back in Water 7 when Luffy was lying on the ground next to Paulie and interacting with him, even more than he ever has with Carrot. They ended up serving the same purpose, fleshing out the cast for an arc.
I only got into this thing because Oda beat me over the head with it. And online, people had already created their ridiculous criteria about who should join and I even ended up agreeing with a few but quickly came to realize that people were using them as doctrines of some sort. That’s when I stepped away from analyzing covers or how or why characters have been joining or whatthey look like or whatever. I fully believed that Jinbei was joining and he barely followed any of those nonsense doctrines and the moment I, personally, analyzed Jinbei’s arc and why it’s different from the “criteria” of the old crew, I found that it’s quite smart of Oda not to rehash the old stuff and he probably couldn’t even actually do it anymore with how the story is going. Around then is when I found the parallels between what Oda is doing with jinbei and Carrot and that’s when I got convinced that I had cracked it.
Well if I take a look at the different opinions here, Oda beating you over the head with pro-Carrot arguments might seem to others like a leaf falling onto your head instead of being constantly clobbered with a "this character will stick around for a very long time"-mace. What parallels are there between Jinbe and Carrot that make you think she joins? For example, I keep seeing how Carrot is said to be an exceptional lookout. Jinbe is an exceptional helmsman and Oda took the time to shove it into people's faces. He hasn't done the same for Carrot.
I don’t actually think at this point that it’s a question of if she’ll join for me. It’s as certain as Jinbei. But of course when I get into arguments here with people flinging their criteria around like a gospel, I don’t respond by making my observations gospels. I posted them here once and that’s that. All I do know is argue against these “gospels” for fun and I guess I can get rude but that’s what happens when most of these “arguments” look like nothing to me.
You didn't post them here once. You kept repeating yourself, insinuating other people didn't care about your arguments even though they made good rebuttals, while you discarded their arguments because "you couldn't understand their points".
I don't know, she seemed pretty broken up about his death.
Zoro would have been pretty broken up if Koshiro had died. Or Usopp about one of the three little kids. Or Nami about Nojiko and Genzo. I could go on but I think it's pretty clear that all Straw Hats have other people in their lives who they would miss dearly without those people being some kind of mentor. Carrot knew Pedro and was taught by him, of course she would take his death hard. If they did have the same kind of relationship other Straw Hats have had with their inspiration, Oda has made no effort to depict this
You know what, if Oda actually makes a convincing case for Carrot gaining the Aptitude to become a captain then I’ll be happy but for now? Hell no thats posssible. Carrot is compared to Beginning of series Luffy, we’re in the freakin New world, what the hell do you think that version of Luffy could pull off in the New world.
Are you equating aptitude as a captain to strength? Because Luffy has not changed much in the way he commands his ship. He only has gained a sense of responsibility to grow stronger.
Carrot is about to be informed of a huge responsibility in regards to her people and the Dawn. Can she not mature from that experience?
Pedro was more mature than Carrot when he set out to find the poneglyphs, and he still failed. Unless Oda really puts his back into it and Does something unprecedented with Carrot, there’s no way you can believably tell me she’s captain material.
Why not? She takes initiative unlike her Mink companions, as shown by sneaking on the ship and when dealing with Daifuku's fleet. Being a captain in One Piece is about having charisma, and that's pretty much it. The Straw Hats thrive on the message that as long as you have capable friends you can succeed.
Carrot is inexperienced? There is Pekoms that inherited Pedro's will as well that can work as an advisor. There are several other Minks that can be navigators (like Bepo), doctors and shipwrights. Why is it that her learning about the Dawn does not make her want to follow in Pedro's footsteps? To honor him? What is so weird about that?
She has not shown an interest in being a captain? This can be answered with the same as when we talk about her bonding with Luffy. It can still come during Wano. You know, maybe she is the one that rallies the Minks if they are being defeated. There are so many ways Carrot can still grow through her people, that denying it, for the sake of denying is confusing to say the least.
Anyway Pedro’s last words weren’t even about Poneglyphs. They were about the Strawhats. And since you’re generous as to point out how much growth Carrot will have, and since she’s served on the Strawhat crew as a lookout already. I don’t see why she, I don’t know, would just join them. Seriously, I want you to take your exact argument, and correct it with what Pedro’s last words actually were and tell me why it’s not more likely that she just joins the Strawhats. Please.
There is nothing to correct. This is a translation:
"Carrot, not to take you by surprise or anything, but…I've been thinking Luffy and his friends might well be the ones our people and the Kozuki clan have been waiting for several hundred of years. The ones that will lead this world unto a new dawn!
I knew from the start. This was to be my last voyage. You'll realize one day. Just how important it is to ensure that Luffy and his friends live and get out of here. Listen up, You lot must keep pushing forward!"
If you have another translation, bring it forward to compare.
The dawn and the poneglyphs are 100% connected within their message. This is further confirmed because Pedro himself was a Poneglyphs hunter. The new dawn, is when the void century is revealed, which will lead to the Final War.
From there, what he says about the Straw Hats seems to be that they need to get out of Whole Cake Island, not sure why that translates to Carrot becoming their guardian angel and to protect them forever. And why does the job of protecting is not possible while belonging to the fleet.
I am not going to argue why she cannot join, I like discussing different possibilities. What I am amazed is the denial that Carrot could belong to a Mink/Samurai faction that join the fleet. Which would also help in regards of protecting the Straw Hats.
Maybe I am blinded by the fact that I find organic that the fleet develops up to its 8000 member mark, in parallel to Luffy ascension into emperor status. Hell he is already being called one. And as he tackles more emperors, like Kaido and Big Mom, I imagine his fleet will develop as well.
Even now with the inclusion of Hiyori, Momo's responsibilities to Wano are loosened if it turns out his sister is now around 20+ years old, and given that Momo is still young, she becomes the next Shogun. At least, it would not be surprising if either sibling decides to take on piracy, and as a Kozuki, the Minks would act as retainers. Dog and Cat, might not be fit to sail anymore, given space to the new generation of Minks.
I have always seen Carrot as a fleet captain in the making. However, I have conceded I might have overlooked how important it is for someone from the Minks to be present on Raftel. From what I remember, Cat and Dog did not know about it, so if their species should have to be there, I wonder why they were not included in the group when Roger and Oden discovered the void century.
I mean, you said that Perona and Usopp have a "defined relationship" and literally the only interaction they had outside of a regular fight was when Perona told Usopp to cheer up. If that counts, then those two definitely count.
You still going on about this? I thought everyone had given up on that point by now. Even Robby has accepted Pedro's death.
Right, so let's just ignore said fight that defined their relationship as Usopp being Perona's natural enemy. What's Carrot's relation to Randolph or Brulee that made their fights so neat?
I don't remember everything Robby posts, but you shouldn't use another forum poster's thoughts to argue that Pedro is actually dead. By all rights he should be a goner, but I don't buy it unless we see the body or they flat out confirm he's dead and that they checked. And even if he is, it didn't have that much impact as a mentor-student thing like the rest of the crew has since it felt tacked on last minute.
@K.:
I mean he is encased in a bubble with two other Straw Hats. Hard to say he is among the entire crowd. Either way neither cover speaks about anyone's chances on joining.
And Carrot was getting a grilled carrot directly from Sanji. So again, what's the difference? Do you think Jinbe's presentation there is special and Carrot's isn't? Because I think in both cases, they're run-of-the-mill, and I say that while still rooting my heart out for both of them.
What I am trying to say is why this one and not others? Or vice versa? Has any color spread given an indication or clue that what it is to come?
If we had another spread like in Chapter 377, with all the SHs and their one guest lined up with the literal banner of "Mugiwara Pirates", then yes, I'd be totally praising the heavens. But no, both the spreads in question are normal scenes with the normal characters on the islands where they'd normally be found.
And Carrot was getting a grilled carrot directly from Sanji. So again, what's the difference? Do you think Jinbe's presentation there is special and Carrot's isn't? Because I think in both cases, they're run-of-the-mill, and I say that while still rooting my heart out for both of them.
A bit, I find that Pekoms is part of the group of Carrot and Sanji. Which makes sense given that Pedro went to save Sanji and both Pekoms and Carrots inherited his will. He is simply hiding, but with his tongue out eyeing the food.
With Jimbe, he is literally encased in a bubble with two other Straw Hats.
Maybe you do not consider Pekoms part of that group, so we can agree to disagree.
But we at least agree that these color spreads, and most if not all in general. Do not show relevance or hints about the story.
If we had another spread like in Chapter 377, with all the SHs and their one guest lined up with the literal banner of "Mugiwara Pirates", then yes, I'd be totally praising the heavens. But no, both the spreads in question are normal scenes with the normal characters on the islands where they'd normally be found.
So, it is not the volume cover with two Carrots that matter, but one that specifically says: Straw Hat pirates and the group it shows. Something that Carrot has yet to have, it could happen in Wano, so we'll see.
@K.:
The dawn and the poneglyphs are 100% connected within their message. This is further confirmed because Pedro himself was a Poneglyphs hunter. The new dawn, is when the void century is revealed, which will lead to the Final War.
Hunting poneglyphs was just the backup plan. Pedro's first idea was to join the pirate king in his voyage. Now that Pedro identified Luffy as the new Roger, why wouldn't plan A be preferable to plan B?
I am not going to argue why she cannot join, I like discussing different possibilities. What I am amazed is the denial that Carrot could belong to a Mink/Samurai faction that join the fleet. Which would also help in regards of protecting the Straw Hats.
The problem with Carrot being the mink captain is that there are just way too many minks that have seniority over her. Inu and Neko will probably stay with the main Mink population, but the three musketeers, the other night guardians of Pedro's rank, Wanda, Pekoms… She can't realistically be in charge when those people are still around. Also, Pekoms is the best choice given that he actually was a Nox pirate before. And him very likely losing an eye is just too narratively perfect to not have him take up Pedro's old role.
Conversely, Carrot's had way too much presence in the story to play second fiddle to any of those people. The way Oda has been presenting her, she's clearly too important to be slumming it in the same ranks as Suleiman, or Gambia.
@K.:
So, it is not the volume cover with two Carrots that matter, but one that specifically says: Straw Hat pirates and the group it shows. Something that Carrot has yet to have, it could happen in Wano, so we'll see.
Please don't misunderstand me. I do still think the 88 cover speaks a lot about Carrot and Jinbe's places on the crew. I'm not calling it proof, but I say it's a very good sign.
Having her under such a clear-cut banner like Franky would be like lightning striking twice: I'm not expecting it in the least, but it would be very vindicating.
@K.:
So, it is not the volume cover with two Carrots that matter, but one that specifically says: Straw Hat pirates and the group it shows. Something that Carrot has yet to have, it could happen in Wano, so we'll see.
Colour spreads and volume covers are very different animals. Colour spreads are mostly just the strawhats in random fun scenes, but the volume covers are a depiction of what's happening in the story. That's why Carrot being put on the same level as the other strawhats is quite noticeable, but the colour spreads don't really mean much.
I'm still convinced Pedro is alive, I know that's not a popular opinion but I'll stick to it
croc :ninja:…....
no but seriously is there a logia that fits the 2 9 theory???
EDIT: Also whatever side ends up being right about carrot joining/not joining is gonna have bragging privileges for a long time
I honestly wouldn't brag or gloat about. If I'm wrong, I'll eat my words and admit I'm wrong.
IDK if there's a Logia that fits the 2.9 scheme, but could gst really creative with whatever idea he has.
IDK if there's a Logia that fits the 2.9 scheme, but could gst really creative with whatever idea he has.
Doesn't Monet's fruit follow the number theory? I'm pretty sure that was a big part in people thinking she would join, or thinking that her fruit transfered to one of Nami's tangerines.
I might be misremembering though.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Right, so let's just ignore said fight that defined their relationship as Usopp being Perona's natural enemy.
That's just because he hard-counters her powers. That's not a relationship on a character level. Fishman karate pretty much obliterates Crocodile's power. Do Crocodile and Kuroobi have a "defined relationship"?
What's Carrot's relation to Randolph or Brulee that made their fights so neat?
Carrot and Randolph are both bunnies. That's something.
Doesn't Monet's fruit follow the number theory? I'm pretty sure that was a big part in people thinking she would join, or thinking that her fruit transfered to one of Nami's tangerines.
I might be misremembering though.
It's 7.9, I had to dig for it, lol.
Doesn't Monet's fruit follow the number theory? I'm pretty sure that was a big part in people thinking she would join, or thinking that her fruit transfered to one of Nami's tangerines.
I might be misremembering though.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
That's just because he hard-counters her powers. That's not a relationship on a character level. Fishman karate pretty much obliterates Crocodile's power. Do Crocodile and Kuroobi have a "defined relationship"?
Carrot and Randolph are both bunnies. That's something.
Oh yeah, I remember that time Kuroobi gained confidence through his enemy and kicked Crocodile's ass, leading to ditching that alter ego of his.
But hey yeah, bunnies, Carrot's in.
@S.C.:
The way I see it, if Carrot really was supposed to be the last crewmember, the time for her and Luffy to bond would have been at the start of the Arc. Instead, Luffy bonded more with Tama, then he ever even acknowledged Carrot (Not saying Tama is going to join), and then she's barely visible in the allied forces panel.
I mean…that kind of says it all, really.
But there’s a story going on… Unless Carrot’s story completely doesn’t happen then what the point of slotting her into a story she wasn’t needed in... All the Strawhats except Zoro got shafted intentionally... This sort of argument makes me wonder, like at least give a reason why Carrot could’ve been added to this Okobore Town story with Tama... Don’t just create a fictional criteria with no back up... So tell me how Carrot would’ve been fitted into this Tama story when all the other Strawhats wouldn’t.
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@K.:
Are you equating aptitude as a captain to strength? Because Luffy has not changed much in the way he commands his ship. He only has gained a sense of responsibility to grow stronger.
Carrot is about to be informed of a huge responsibility in regards to her people and the Dawn. Can she not mature from that experience?
Why not? She takes initiative unlike her Mink companions, as shown by sneaking on the ship and when dealing with Daifuku's fleet. Being a captain in One Piece is about having charisma, and that's pretty much it. The Straw Hats thrive on the message that as long as you have capable friends you can succeed.
Carrot is inexperienced? There is Pekoms that inherited Pedro's will as well that can work as an advisor. There are several other Minks that can be navigators (like Bepo), doctors and shipwrights. Why is it that her learning about the Dawn does not make her want to follow in Pedro's footsteps? To honor him? What is so weird about that?
She has not shown an interest in being a captain? This can be answered with the same as when we talk about her bonding with Luffy. It can still come during Wano. You know, maybe she is the one that rallies the Minks if they are being defeated. There are so many ways Carrot can still grow through her people, that denying it, for the sake of denying is confusing to say the least.
There is nothing to correct. This is a translation:
"Carrot, not to take you by surprise or anything, but…I've been thinking Luffy and his friends might well be the ones our people and the Kozuki clan have been waiting for several hundred of years. The ones that will lead this world unto a new dawn!
I knew from the start. This was to be my last voyage. You'll realize one day. Just how important it is to ensure that Luffy and his friends live and get out of here. Listen up, You lot must keep pushing forward!"
If you have another translation, bring it forward to compare.
The dawn and the poneglyphs are 100% connected within their message. This is further confirmed because Pedro himself was a Poneglyphs hunter. The new dawn, is when the void century is revealed, which will lead to the Final War.
From there, what he says about the Straw Hats seems to be that they need to get out of Whole Cake Island, not sure why that translates to Carrot becoming their guardian angel and to protect them forever. And why does the job of protecting is not possible while belonging to the fleet.
I am not going to argue why she cannot join, I like discussing different possibilities. What I am amazed is the denial that Carrot could belong to a Mink/Samurai faction that join the fleet. Which would also help in regards of protecting the Straw Hats.
Maybe I am blinded by the fact that I find organic that the fleet develops up to its 8000 member mark, in parallel to Luffy ascension into emperor status. Hell he is already being called one. And as he tackles more emperors, like Kaido and Big Mom, I imagine his fleet will develop as well.
Even now with the inclusion of Hiyori, Momo's responsibilities to Wano are loosened if it turns out his sister is now around 20+ years old, and given that Momo is still young, she becomes the next Shogun. At least, it would not be surprising if either sibling decides to take on piracy, and as a Kozuki, the Minks would act as retainers. Dog and Cat, might not be fit to sail anymore, given space to the new generation of Minks.
I have always seen Carrot as a fleet captain in the making. However, I have conceded I might have overlooked how important it is for someone from the Minks to be present on Raftel. From what I remember, Cat and Dog did not know about it, so if their species should have to be there, I wonder why they were not included in the group when Roger and Oden discovered the void century.
I never said Captain Aptitude was connected to strength…Some where in this argument I even stated Leo is more of a captain than Carrot, and yet im sure Carrot can beat him on a fight... You yourself just said that Charisma is a factor in Captain’s Aptitude and your example is Carrot being quick on her feet to attack Diafuku... That’s not Charisma unless I’m using some wrong definition... What I call Captain’s Aptitude is being a good leader... it conceits of charisma of course but like I said, your example is wrong to start with... Carrot keeps getting paired with Chopper for a reason. Because even Chopper gets to show off leadership qualities when next to her... There’s literally no one else Chopper has been like that too... So the gap in leadership capabilities between Chopper and even Leo are very high. So if Carrot is to be come captain material, it would need a lot of character changes... Her future goals don’t necessitate nor indicate these changes and so that’s why I can’t ecen see where you’re coming from on this...
Colour spreads and volume covers are very different animals. Colour spreads are mostly just the strawhats in random fun scenes, but the volume covers are a depiction of what's happening in the story. That's why Carrot being put on the same level as the other strawhats is quite noticeable, but the colour spreads don't really mean much.
Is pretty common to me that the whole escape team(originally, Sanjis retrieval team) gets to be in the cover, with uncolored helpers(Chiffon, Bege, Pudding), as it also makes sense that stortwise Pedro is dead so he's out covers, pretty much just like Vergo is storywise dead as well and no covers for him either.
but then, storywise, Vivi, a Camel, Wiper, Ganfall, Paulie, Iceburg, the supernovas, the prison break team, the colliseum fighters and hell of a bunch of people have shared covers with the SH's
and storywise, Pell was dead.
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I never said Captain Aptitude was connected to strength…Some where in this argument I even stated Leo is more of a captain than Carrot, and yet im sure Carrot can beat him on a fight... You yourself just said that Charisma is a factor in Captain’s Aptitude and your example is Carrot being quick on her feet to attack Diafuku... That’s not Charisma unless I’m using some wrong definition... What I call Captain’s Aptitude is being a good leader... it conceits of charisma of course but like I said, your example is wrong to start with... Carrot keeps getting paired with Chopper for a reason. Because even Chopper gets to show off leadership qualities when next to her... There’s literally no one else Chopper has been like that too... So the gap in leadership capabilities between Chopper and even Leo are very high. So if Carrot is to be come captain material, it would need a lot of character changes... Her future goals don’t necessitate nor indicate these changes and so that’s why I can’t ecen see where you’re coming from on this...
no one said aptitude was connected to strength.
we're saying, Carrot is strong, charismatic, brave, takes initiative and is earning experience in adventuring, thats pretty much well enough for her to be a Captain.
while thinga havent been build up that way, we didn't see Hody Jones army becoming soldiers, or there was no indications that Ideo, Leo or Orlombus wanted to be pirates at some point, so it is an actual possibility.
there is however a big hole in the fleet not currently including Fishmen, Samurais and Minks, not that it has to, but would be much cooler and greater, and the sun pirates could fill up one of those spots tho.
Is pretty common to me that the whole escape team(originally, Sanjis retrieval team) gets to be in the cover, with uncolored helpers(Chiffon, Bege, Pudding), as it also makes sense that stortwise Pedro is dead so he's out covers, pretty much just like Vergo is storywise dead as well and no covers for him either.
but then, storywise, Vivi, a Camel, Wiper, Ganfall, Paulie, Iceburg, the supernovas, the prison break team, the colliseum fighters and hell of a bunch of people have shared covers with the SH's
and storywise, Pell was dead.–- Update From New Post Merge ---
no one said aptitude was connected to strength.
we're saying, Carrot is strong, charismatic, brave, takes initiative and is earning experience in adventuring, thats pretty much well enough for her to be a Captain.
while thinga havent been build up that way, we didn't see Hody Jones army becoming soldiers, or there was no indications that Ideo, Leo or Orlombus wanted to be pirates at some point, so it is an actual possibility.there is however a big hole in the fleet not currently including Fishmen, Samurais and Minks, not that it has to, but would be much cooler and greater, and the sun pirates could fill up one of those spots tho.
Where’s the charismatic part coming from? Carrot has shown no leadership ability in the story so far and that’s what I’m talking about. And again, Hody, Leo and Orlumbus as you mentions had more leadership stats and potrayal from the moment they were introduced which Carrot doesn’t. I don’t know if you’re getting what I mean anymore. Even Chopper has more leadership skills compared to her.
If you’re solution is that she somehow gains Aptitude for a captain offscreen then first of all that’s cheap and second of all whatever then, that will be Oda taking shortcuts and Carrot will matter even less in the story then. Because then she would’ve gotten perks she clearly didn’t deserve before Oda just skipped over actually showing how and why she now deserves them… it could happen of course, the same way Carrot could even naturally be wrote to somehow become a leader but like I said, the former is lazy and the later will require a lot of work from Oda since he’s certainly not set up her becoming that way in the first place.
Where’s the charismatic part coming from? Carrot has shown no leadership ability in the story so far and that’s what I’m talking about. And again, Hody, Leo and Orlumbus as you mentions had more leadership stats and potrayal from the moment they were introduced which Carrot doesn’t. I don’t know if you’re getting what I mean anymore. Even Chopper has more leadership skills compared to her.
If you’re solution is that she somehow gains Aptitude for a captain offscreen then first of all that’s cheap and second of all whatever then, that will be Oda taking shortcuts and Carrot will matter even less in the story then. Because then she would’ve gotten perks she clearly didn’t deserve before Oda just skipped over actually showing how and why she now deserves them… it could happen of course, the same way Carrot could even naturally be wrote to somehow become a leader but like I said, the former is lazy and the later will require a lot of work from Oda since he’s certainly not set up her becoming that way in the first place.
She gaining that aptitude ON screen, from the Pirate King to be, if she becomes captain and GF commander, that'll be as much matter for her as she's been portayed to have. not enough to join the main crew, but to much to be left behind.
Is pretty common to me that the whole escape team(originally, Sanjis retrieval team) gets to be in the cover, with uncolored helpers(Chiffon, Bege, Pudding), as it also makes sense that stortwise Pedro is dead so he's out covers, pretty much just like Vergo is storywise dead as well and no covers for him either.
The grammar and syntax of this sentence is so broken that I can't even begin to answer you. I have no idea what point you're making here.
but then, storywise, Vivi, a Camel, Wiper, Ganfall, Paulie, Iceburg, the supernovas, the prison break team, the colliseum fighters and hell of a bunch of people have shared covers with the SH's
Ok? I just said that volume covers reflect what's happening in the story, not that every person who appears on them is likely to join the strawhats.
and storywise, Pell was dead.
What does this have to do with the comment you were replying to?
to me, i still doubt that SH Pirates will have another crewmate after Jinbei. Even if there is, i predict that the person is a well-known and already got bounty by marine.
Even if there is, i predict that the person is a well-known and already got bounty by marine.
Based on what?
161616161161616161616
It's 7.9, I had to dig for it, lol.
Sorry, what exactly is this 2.9 theory in relation to One Piece and new crewmates?
EDIT: Quick Google search helped me out- linking here for anyone who might be interested
https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiece/comments/391q6w/crazy_japanese_nakama_theory/
This is interesting but I don't know that Oda is necessarily thinking about this when he plots the story and thinks of characters he wants to write- or Maybe he is. Who am I to know.
You still going on about this? I thought everyone had given up on that point by now. Even Robby has accepted Pedro's death.
Don't use me to make your arguments.
I have accepted that Oda wants us to believe that one for a change, and its not worth arguing about for the next four of five years till the end of Elbaf. (Unlike say Monet, who is alive and well, tardiness of cover story be damned.)
Oda still failed to sell the scene in the moment, which is something he is typically good at, and tried to rush and force in the emotion in a two panel flashback afterwards, rather than working and really building up to it like he normally does for big death scenes and has managed consistently for every flashback, Ace, and Whitebeard.
I'm still not fully convinced till we see the end of Big Mom's involvement and what happened to Pekoms. The cake arc as a whole ended on a downer, lots of sacrifices. Pedro, Pekoms, Pound, King Baum, Sanji's family, fishmen including Jinbei. We know almost all of those are going to be fine.
He also wanted us to believe that Vivi's lifelong friend and mentor Igram was dead, and he stayed dead for a very long time. Toto and Pell's "deaths", less dragged out.
Oda is still Oda at the end of the day.
@Badass:
Sorry, what exactly is this 2.9 theory in relation to One Piece and new crewmates?
EDIT: Quick Google search helped me out- linking here for anyone who might be interested
https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiece/comments/391q6w/crazy_japanese_nakama_theory/
This is interesting but I don't know that Oda is necessarily thinking about this when he plots the story and thinks of characters he wants to write- or Maybe he is. Who am I to know.
I mean it seems a liitle too deliberate to be unplanned coinidences. But i do find the number theory interesting.
But there’s a story going on… Unless Carrot’s story completely doesn’t happen then what the point of slotting her into a story she wasn’t needed in... All the Strawhats except Zoro got shafted intentionally... This sort of argument makes me wonder, like at least give a reason why Carrot could’ve been added to this Okobore Town story with Tama... Don’t just create a fictional criteria with no back up... So tell me how Carrot would’ve been fitted into this Tama story when all the other Strawhats wouldn’t.
By being in the same area as Luffy when the ship crashed and being with him during it?