Having someone from Wano would impede on Zoro's skill set, so I don't expect any from Wano. Carrot will be the last crewmate
Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 7 - Wano)
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Without reading the last dozen pages of this thread, it's been 30 volumes since a new nakama, and we're halfway through the second half of One Piece, without a new nakama… are we not considering yet that there won't be another nakama? It even looks worse for Jimbei the further we get at this point.
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Having someone from Wano would impede on Zoro's skill set, so I don't expect any from Wano. Carrot will be the last crewmate
I also think Carrot will join, but a ninja wouldn't be stepping on Zoro's toes. (although there's absolutely no indication that a ninja will join at this point)
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
are we not considering yet that there won't be another nakama? It even looks worse for Jimbei the further we get at this point.
Luffy said he wanted at least 10 crewmates in chapter 1.
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Without reading the last dozen pages of this thread, it's been 30 volumes since a new nakama, and we're halfway through the second half of One Piece, without a new nakama… are we not considering yet that there won't be another nakama? It even looks worse for Jimbei the further we get at this point.
The Blackbeard Pirates consist of Blackbeard and 10 "titan captains", which means we will have at least Luffy + 10 crew members.
At the moment we have Luffy + 8 nakama if we exclude Jinbe (considered a member among the crew, but not when it comes to things like color spreads and stuff), means one more free slot.
Oda also comfirmed that the next crew members (plural) will join successively - which makes sense, considering that Jinbe didn't get his official "warm welcome" yet + the final nakama has to join relatively soon due to the manga being so close to the endgame. I fully expect a Robin / Franky style double-recruitment - an old character joins for good (Robin/Jinbe) + someone relatively new (Franky/XX).That said, the best argument for Carrot is still that we have no suitable other candidate in sight, and time is running out fast. The best argument against Carrot, imo, is the fact that Luffy has zero interest in her and Oda is not making any effort whatsoever to create a special bond between her and Luffy. And yes, she abolutely needs a special bond with him in order to not look out of place when the final war draws close and everyone rallies behind Luffy.
So one of two scenarios has to happen really soon: a new candidate shows up or Carrot starts bonding with Luffy on a personal level.
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That said, the best argument for Carrot is still that we have no suitable other candidate in sight
Well and you know, stuff like her mentor notably having died. Not that I want to rehash those debates, just saying it's weird to not acknowledge that in regards to what makes the best argument for her case.
So one of two scenarios has to happen really soon: a new candidate shows up or Carrot starts bonding with Luffy on a personal level.
Sounds about right.
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I feel like people should be more open to the possibility of their being more than Luffy + 10 nakama. The fact that we have 4 missing entries between Brook and Roger in the new databook seems like a potential red flag.
Personally I think #10 is Jinbe and #13 are the ships/klabautermann.
But the missing #11 and #12? I don't think there's a lot of good alternative hypotheses. Law didn't get placed next to the Strawhats despite being considered a nakama, so I don't see why Vivi/Carue would either. Some people have said that maybe #12 and #13 are for Merry and Sunny but as I already explained they're both possessed by the same klabautermann.
The only other reasonable possibility is that Ace is one of the missing entries but would that also bring Portgas D. Rouge into one of the nearby cards? What about Sabo?
I think people should take into question whether Luffy + 10 will actually be the final number. The Sunny having a giant #13 on it, the crew being called "Mugiwara no Ichimi" (The Strawhat of 1-3), and now the databook seemingly having 13 entries for the Strawhats?
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I agree with the thought that Carrot needs more development with Luffy, like some pivotal character moments between them, but I wouldn't say that they need to start "bonding". They have shown moments of friendship and affection together and ,besides that, Luffy trusted in her to protect the Sunny together with the Strawhats and he has acknowledged her efforts.
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The fact that we have 4 missing entries between Brook and Roger in the new databook seems like a potential red flag.
Personally I think #10 is Jinbe and #13 are the ships/klabautermann.
We have enough info for the ships to each fill their own cards. So 12 and 13 will probably be Merry and Sunny.
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The fact that we have 4 missing entries between Brook and Roger in the new databook seems like a potential red flag.
It just means the editors putting that book together wanted to have freedom to play with that space down the line if they needed to, and to not give away to the audience exactly how many crew were left.
Particularly when Jinbe is in the ridiculous weird spot he's in right now, where they won't get to his card for about a year yet, but he still may not be be officially in the crew then.
That extra space could be the Merry and the Sunny, or Vivi and Carue, or Ace and Sabo or Garp and Dragon or anything really. It could even be a special thing about Luffy's hat or Oda only knows what.
Them spacing it like that to NOT be a spoiler seems far more likely than putting that big spoiler out years in advance of "four to go!"
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And honestly, Oda seems like he's been having issues writing for nine already. 13 is just plain too much.
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Well and you know, stuff like her mentor notably having died. Not that I want to rehash those debates, just saying it's weird to not acknowledge that in regards to what makes the best argument for her case.
I do acknowledge it, but in my opinion it's only a tiny puzzle piece that keeps Carrot on the radar, not an argument strong enough to push her into nakama territory. She's not the only ally with a dead mentor and a debt to Luffy after all.
Maybe I would be more open to Carrot if Oda made an effort to bond her to Luffy in some manner, but even after two arcs there is really nothing noteworthy. Instead Carrot heavily bonded with Chopper, who in general bonded the most with the new allied faction, the mink tribe. He cured the effects of the poisonous gas, he healed Zunisha, he's spent the entire BM arc as Carrot's big bro.
The relationship between Chopper and Carrot reminds me a lot of Usopp and Leo, who ended up as the main representative of the allied Dwarves. The same could happen to Carrot and the minks respectively, which would also explain why she's hogging so much paneltime.I agree with the thought that Carrot needs more development with Luffy, like some pivotal character moments between them, but I wouldn't say that they need to start "bonding". They have shown moments of friendship and affection together, and Luffy trusted in her to protect the Sunny together with the Strawhats and he has acknowledged her efforts.
Luffy freed all of his nakama from their shackles, both physically and mentally. I wouldn't go so far and say that they only live for Luffy now, but it's pretty damn close.
All the other arguments in this thread mean little to me, if I'm honest. Be it for or against Carrot. Whether her silhouette is unique enough, her fighting style too close to someone else, her design too bland/overlapping with other SHs, whatever people come up with. It matters little to me when she doesn't have what every other SH has - a unique bond with Luffy. And sadly I'm not even seeing any sort of buildup toward it. Quite the opposite actually. I mean Oda had so many opportunities to establish closeness, in whatever way, but instead he leaves it at Garchu's.
Why? Why so reluctant if there is something big yet to come?To me it feels like Oda is trying to establish a meaningful character, which Carrot undoubtedly is, while maintaining a healthy distance between the character and the Straw Hats, specifically Luffy. Do you know what I mean? He's needlessly holding back if Carrot is indeed the next member.
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The Blackbeard Pirates consist of Blackbeard and 10 "titan captains", which means we will have at least Luffy + 10 crew members.
At the moment we have Luffy + 8 nakama if we exclude Jinbe (considered a member among the crew, but not when it comes to things like color spreads and stuff), means one more free slot.
Oda also comfirmed that the next crew members (plural) will join successively - which makes sense, considering that Jinbe didn't get his official "warm welcome" yet + the final nakama has to join relatively soon due to the manga being so close to the endgame. I fully expect a Robin / Franky style double-recruitment - an old character joins for good (Robin/Jinbe) + someone relatively new (Franky/XX).That said, the best argument for Carrot is still that we have no suitable other candidate in sight, and time is running out fast. The best argument against Carrot, imo, is the fact that Luffy has zero interest in her and Oda is not making any effort whatsoever to create a special bond between her and Luffy. And yes, she abolutely needs a special bond with him in order to not look out of place when the final war draws close and everyone rallies behind Luffy.
So one of two scenarios has to happen really soon: a new candidate shows up or Carrot starts bonding with Luffy on a personal level.
I find that part of she must have a special bond with Luffy weird… Imagine a situation where the rest of the crew are the ones she’s had said special bond with, and not like Pudding with Sanji, I mean a non-toxic bond with the Majority of the crew in fact much more than Luffy anyway... Are you saying Oda wouldn’t consider making her a crewmate in this scenario?
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He's needlessly holding back if Carrot is indeed the next member.
Since carrot snuck aboard luffy has constantly gotten separated from the strawhats in general, from fighting cracker to being captured/freed it was only nami and luffy, and as soon as the assassin plan ended luffy separated to fight katakuri. Then when they reached wano luffy got separated again for 10 chapters with zoro.
In fact, both when luffy reunited after escaping cacoa and just now carrot immediately jumped on luffy to welcome him back.
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We have enough info for the ships to each fill their own cards. So 12 and 13 will probably be Merry and Sunny.
We have already have characters with multiple cards. So I don't see why #13 wouldn't get multiple cards. But most importantly the Merry and the Sunny seem to be possessed by the same spirit.
@S.C.:
And honestly, Oda seems like he's been having issues writing for nine already. 13 is just plain too much.
I agree but regardless we're still getting more crew members.
Also I never said there'd be 13 members straight up, more like 12 + the ship. Jinbe, Carrot, and someone else joining by the end of Wano arc.I just think there's a lot of circumstantial evidence pointing towards more.
The Sunny have a giant #13 on it
Mugiwara no Ichimi (Strawhat of 1-3)
13 entries in the databook
Green Databook having 12 or 13 members in the early concept art for BB's crew -
I do acknowledge it, but in my opinion it's only a tiny puzzle piece that keeps Carrot on the radar, not an argument strong enough to push her into nakama territory. She's not the only ally with a dead mentor and a debt to Luffy after all.
Maybe I would be more open to Carrot if Oda made an effort to bond her to Luffy in some manner, but even after two arcs there is really nothing noteworthy. Instead Carrot heavily bonded with Chopper, who in general bonded the most with the new allied faction, the mink tribe. He cured the effects of the poisonous gas, he healed Zunisha, he's spent the entire BM arc as Carrot's big bro.
The relationship between Chopper and Carrot reminds me a lot of Usopp and Leo, who ended up as the main representative of the allied Dwarves. The same could happen to Carrot and the minks respectively, which would also explain why she's hogging so much paneltime.Luffy freed all of his nakama from their shackles, both physically and mentally. I wouldn't go so far and say that they only live for Luffy now, but it's pretty damn close.
All the other arguments in this thread mean little to me, if I'm honest. Be it for or against Carrot. Whether her silhouette is unique enough, her fighting style too close to someone else, her design too bland/overlapping with other SHs, whatever people come up with. It matters little to me when she doesn't have what every other SH has - a unique bond with Luffy. And sadly I'm not even seeing any sort of buildup toward it. Quite the opposite actually. I mean Oda had so many opportunities to establish closeness, in whatever way, but instead he leaves it at Garchu's.
Why? Why so reluctant if there is something big yet to come?To me it feels like Oda is trying to establish a meaningful character, which Carrot undoubtedly is, while maintaining a healthy distance between the character and the Straw Hats, specifically Luffy. Do you know what I mean? He's needlessly holding back if Carrot is indeed the next member.
Why are you asking this as though there’s an indicator the Carrot’s story is already over? Oda intentionally backtracked showing any drama around Pedro’s death after the Carrot flashback so that it can come back later. Don’t tell me you think Carrot will get huddled in with the rest of the Minks and leave this Pedro thing hanging. There’s setup for something in the story already and it’s pretty clear it’s going somewhere. And I still don’t think it has to be some extreme melodrama centered around Luffy. Other Strawhats are all basically qualified to help her seeing as she’s a rookie compared to all of them.
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Since carrot snuck aboard luffy has constantly gotten separated from the strawhats in general, from fighting cracker to being captured/freed it was only nami and luffy, and as soon as the assassin plan ended luffy separated to fight katakuri. Then when they reached wano luffy got separated again for 10 chapters with zoro.
Oda is the author. He chose to have separations. He could have put Carrot together with Luffy at any time he wanted.
He has instead had her bond consistently with Chopper.
In fact, both when luffy reunited after escaping cacoa and just now carrot immediately jumped on luffy to welcome him back.
That's not a unique to Carrot trait. All the minks do that. Check out how Wanda and Pedro interacted with him.
Of course there's the dog minks and Brook but that's a little different.
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Oda is the author. He chose to have separations. He could have put Carrot together with Luffy at any time he wanted.
He has instead had her bond consistently with Chopper.
Coincidentally, this also led to Chopper calling her his little sister, a role that it currently lacking among the SHs. Like I said the other day, Carrot shouldn't be expected to get any real development until she talks to Inu and Neko about Pedro and his sacrifice. Let's also not pretend like she won't use her sulong form again this arc. She's also part of the SH crew getting critical exposition now, so she'll be around this entire arc. Plenty of time for her to get even more development.
That's not a unique to Carrot trait. All the minks do that. Check out how Wanda and Pedro interacted with him.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CjnrXaBUoAA1hzQ.jpg http://i.imgur.com/x3rvhyt.pnghttps://78.media.tumblr.com/ea7e8d6c99b6473871af08b430c1b508/tumblr_inline_nzzz5xVbvA1s9ibsx_540.png
https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/onepiece/images/9/9c/Pedro_Meets_Luffy.png/revision/latest?cb=20160414183312&path-prefix=ptOf course there's the dog minks and Brook but that's a little different.
https://78.media.tumblr.com/d1052710164b2e3745f7e1c44a2b09ad/tumblr_inline_o01jmgqX8P1s9ibsx_540.pngLike everything else with Carrot, it would still be unique among the crew. Jinbe isn't the only one that can use fishman karate, but he'd be the only fishman in the crew to use it. Same with Carrot and her fighting style/race. Once the SHs leave Wano, she'd likely be the only mink with major panel time until the final war starts.
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Luffy has a brother. Nami has a sister. Usopp has a girlfriend. Sanji has a father. Franky has a family. Lots of them have relatives, (none of them by blood!) Chopper getting a sister and having attachment to Zou, and a place he can go to after the adventure is all done, is right in line with that.
Coincidentally, this also led to Chopper calling her his little sister, a role that it currently lacking among the SHs.
1-Oda doesn't diferentiate the "little" role. When he labeled the male strawhats as brothers, they were all just brothers. Chopper wasn't the youngest one.
2-If you DO count that role (which Oda doesn't) Chopper fills the role of youngest and most naive already.
Like I said the other day, Carrot shouldn't be expected to get any real development until she talks to Inu and Neko about Pedro and his sacrifice.
So it's okay that the character gets almost no development for 200 or 300 chapters, and no interaction with Luffy, that'll just come "eventually."
Let's also not pretend like she won't use her sulong form again this arc.
Along with a whole mess of other minks making it not special at all. And Chopper who can transform 7 different ways already.
She's also part of the SH crew getting critical exposition now, so she'll be around this entire arc. Plenty of time for her to get even more development.]quote]
Law and his crew have gotten the same exposition. So this all applies to Bepo as well, right?
Like everything else with Carrot, it would still be unique among the crew. Jinbe isn't the only one that can use fishman karate, but he'd be the only fishman in the crew to use it. Same with Carrot and her fighting style/race. Once the SHs leave Wano, she'd likely be the only mink with major panel time until the final war starts.
She's gone from being 1 of 3 active minks, to about to be one of dozens. She's just getting less and less unique. Her purpose has been to give the Minks a face, to preview what they can do as a whole. Same as Leo for the Dwarves, or the handful of giants we've gotten already.
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I do acknowledge it, but in my opinion it's only a tiny puzzle piece that keeps Carrot on the radar, not an argument strong enough to push her into nakama territory. She's not the only ally with a dead mentor and a debt to Luffy after all.
She's the only one with one who died in the present day however. And it's not so much just the death, though that obviously sticks out, but also his last words to her as well, seeing how exactly that will play out for her.
The idea that all she really has going for her is that the other candidates suck is of course one I don't agree with, but seeing that your criteria you're focusing on anymore is that unique bond with Luffy, I can understand why you'd come to that conclusion I suppose. It's one of the few things that genuinely matters in the end, amidst all the talk of patterns and what not.
Maybe I would be more open to Carrot if Oda made an effort to bond her to Luffy in some manner, but even after two arcs there is really nothing noteworthy. Instead Carrot heavily bonded with Chopper, who in general bonded the most with the new allied faction, the mink tribe. He cured the effects of the poisonous gas, he healed Zunisha, he's spent the entire BM arc as Carrot's big bro.
He's helped them the most due to his medical skills, certainly, and even has a crush on one of them. But as someone who recently reread the arc, saying he's bonded the most with them is a reach. They don't treat him any differently than the others aside from the occasional acknowledgment that he is the doctor of the crew. The only Mink he's actually bonded with is Carrot, and that was in WCI, not Zou. Throughout the arc it's made clear that the tribe as a whole is eternally grateful to the entire crew, even the ones that weren't there during the flashback due to them defeating Doflamingo, not just Chopper. This sounds very reminiscent of that whole usual narrative I read around her regarding the relationship between Chopper and the Minks, but in actuality it's heavily overblown.
Also some of the Minks clearly like Brook the most.
The relationship between Chopper and Carrot reminds me a lot of Usopp and Leo, who ended up as the main representative of the allied Dwarves. The same could happen to Carrot and the minks respectively, which would also explain why she's hogging so much paneltime.
That whole thing with Usoland and what not back in Dressrosa, now that is undeniably a situation where a member of the crew is elevated above the others aside from Luffy himself. Usopp is not only their personal hero, but they made a statue for him alongside Luffy and Kyros, named their ship after him, and even have his face as their figurehead. This is a massive gulf from how the Minks view Chopper in comparison.
All the other arguments in this thread mean little to me, if I'm honest. Be it for or against Carrot. Whether her silhouette is unique enough, her fighting style too close to someone else, her design too bland/overlapping with other SHs, whatever people come up with. It matters little to me when she doesn't have what every other SH has - a unique bond with Luffy. And sadly I'm not even seeing any sort of buildup toward it. Quite the opposite actually. I mean Oda had so many opportunities to establish closeness, in whatever way, but instead he leaves it at Garchu's.
Why? Why so reluctant if there is something big yet to come?To me it feels like Oda is trying to establish a meaningful character, which Carrot undoubtedly is, while maintaining a healthy distance between the character and the Straw Hats, specifically Luffy. Do you know what I mean? He's needlessly holding back if Carrot is indeed the next member.
I really don't to be honest. I don't know what a "healthy distance" is supposed to be, but clearly it's a very subjective matter. She's embraced all of the WCI group warmingly aside from Jinbe, and vice-versa, with her most personal moments being with Chopper, Sanji, and to a lesser extent Brook. From my perspective, those desired moments/bond with Luffy has nothing to do with reluctance. It could happen at pretty much anytime and it wouldn't ever be out of place at this point considering the presumed lengthiness of the arc due to everything it has to cover, regardless of whether she joins.
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Luffy has a brother. Nami has a sister. Usopp has a girlfriend. Sanji has a father. Franky has a family. Lots of them have relatives, (none of them by blood!) Chopper getting a sister and having attachment to Zou, and a place he can go to after the adventure is all done, is right in line with that.
1-Oda doesn't diferentiate the "little" role. When he labeled the male strawhats as brothers, they were all just brothers. Chopper wasn't the youngest one.
2-If you DO count that role (which Oda doesn't) Chopper fills the role of youngest and most naive already.
So it's okay that the character gets almost no development for 200 or 300 chapters, and no interaction with Luffy, that'll just come "eventually."
Along with a whole mess of other minks making it not special at all. And Chopper who can transform 7 different ways already.
She's also part of the SH crew getting critical exposition now, so she'll be around this entire arc. Plenty of time for her to get even more development.]quote]
Law and his crew have gotten the same exposition. So this all applies to Bepo as well, right?
She's gone from being 1 of 3 active minks, to about to be one of dozens. She's just getting less and less unique. Her purpose has been to give the Minks a face, to preview what they can do as a whole. Same as Leo for the Dwarves, or the handful of giants we've gotten already.
I asked you if you honestly believe the Pedro stuff with Carrot wont go anywhere? And you pointing out the the number of chapters she’s been in doesn’t do anything. She’s been active in the crew whether you don’t care about it or not and when Pedro died there was a turn in her story. That’s how Set up and pay off works. Pedro’s death also had to be set up and all that time Carrot was in fact active in the crew as a sightseer and making friends with chopper but even still managed to save the crew in that mean time. Then the set up for Pedro’s death happened and that became set up for Carrot now actually stepping up for the crew. And she did as a look out and also saved the crew AGAIN. And there’s even more pay off to come obviously.
This is how stories are told. You saying she had to have something happen in the chapters she’s been in is completely ignoring that there was still an actual story going on. Pedro had to die in this story, and his death had to be set up. Would you have preferred that he just died like in the first 20 chapters or something with no set up just to quicken Carrot’s set up and pay off? C’mon man, it’s better you start talking about number of chapters if there was literally nothing actually happening other than using the chapter numbers for shallow arguments.
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Luffy has a brother. Nami has a sister. Usopp has a girlfriend. Sanji has a father. Franky has a family. Lots of them have relatives, (none of them by blood!) Chopper getting a sister and having attachment to Zou, and a place he can go to after the adventure is all done, is right in line with that.
What does this have to do with the family roles that Oda said the SH crew has?
1-Oda doesn't diferentiate the "little" role. When he labeled the male strawhats as brothers, they were all just brothers. Chopper wasn't the youngest one.
2-If you DO count that role (which Oda doesn't) Chopper fills the role of youngest and most naive already.
According to the SBS in vol. 48, the roles of the SH "family" are set. Carrot would still fit in perfectly with a "Second Daughter" role. That could still be the equivalent of a little sister. It could also prompt Chopper being the "Youngest Brother" and Carrot being the "Youngest Sister." It's entirely possible that Oda didn't want to give anything away with those titles. He didn't with Jinbe either.
So it's okay that the character gets almost no development for 200 or 300 chapters, and no interaction with Luffy, that'll just come "eventually."
It is when Oda knows where he wants to go. Like I said in the past, we're beyond the traditional SH "new member" stuff that Oda's done before. Jinbe is proof enough of this. She's been around for a little over 100 chapters and we know that both Carrot and the minks will have a greater role in the arc that Oda's been building up to (Wano). She also needs to build a connection with the other SH crewmates and this arc will allow for that.
Along with a whole mess of other minks making it not special at all. And Chopper who can transform 7 different ways already.
Jinbe is not the only fishman, but he stood out in the FI arc. There's no reason to assume she won't stand out in this one. And for the 100th time, Chopper is not a mink. Luffy can transform and so can Franky. None of them have a sulong form and none of them are minks.
Law and his crew have gotten the same exposition. So this all applies to Bepo as well, right?
Curious how only SHs are shown in this same setting, though. Oh, and look. There's Carrot. Not Law or Bepo, or anyone else. Just SHs.
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She's gone from being 1 of 3 active minks, to about to be one of dozens. She's just getting less and less unique. Her purpose has been to give the Minks a face, to preview what they can do as a whole. Same as Leo for the Dwarves, or the handful of giants we've gotten already.
It's too bad Jinbe didn't stand out in that arc with all those other fishmen and mermaids. Oh wait. Oda did make him stand out.
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So it's okay that the character gets almost no development for 200 or 300 chapters, and no interaction with Luffy, that'll just come "eventually."
She may not have the same depth as someone like Jinbe, but saying she's hardly had any development at all is pure hyperbole.
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I asked you if you honestly believe the Pedro stuff with Carrot wont go anywhere?
Sure. The same place every other secondary character's plot threads go. Cover stories or side adventures that tie into the main narrative.
She may not have the same depth as someone like Jinbe, but saying she's hardly had any development at all is pure hyperbole.
For the sheer ammount of time she's been in the story? It has been very little.
Plenty of development for a secondary character. Almost none for a strawhat.
Look at all the development someone like Mr. 2 or Bellamy or Hachi or Wiper have gotten, in far less time. Or look at Sai, who took over leadership of his clan from his grandfather, got engaged to Baby 5 who had her own thing, and swore loyalty to Luffy. Or Hancock who did a complete character arc in under 10 chapters. Look at how Sanji's family changed completely in how they acted and treated Sanji. Look at what happened with Katakuri during his fight with Luffy. Look at Brownbeard who went from upstart pirate, to butchered loser, to loyal Ceaser minion, then betrayed by Ceaser, who turned into a Strawhat ally, showing a full range of emotions of laughing and crying and loss, and he was C-list character at best. Look at the development Senor Pink got in a random ass flashback. Look at everything Shirahoshi and Rebecca went through in terms of growth and change.
Or if you must go with the most prominent almost-strawhat, then Vivi who had had her entire country dying, and lifelong friends die right in front of her, from an explosion. (They were fine later.)
I'm not saying Carrot hasn't gotten some development. Just not enough to be significant after the sheer amount of time she's been around. Especially when her most significant scenes have appeared to be afterthoughts. Her flashback and entire relationship with Pedro were after the fact and done in 2 panels after his death, and her Sulong transformation had no setup until the chapter before it happened when Oda decided it was time to mess up the known timetable and have a full moon that very night. Those both feel like last minute decisions rather than big moments he'd been planning for months or years.
(And yes, obviously Oda knew Sulong was coming back on Zou. But it doesn't feel like he planned to show it off during the Big Mom arc until that arc started stretching close to a hundred chapters, and he knew it would be another hundred before he got to it on Wano)
What does this have to do with the family roles that Oda said the SH crew has?
You indicated a "youngest" role, which Oda has made no distinction before.
Jinbe is not the only fishman, but he stood out in the FI arc. There's no reason to assume she won't stand out in this one.
And Carrot during the Zou arc was only in the background, uses the same weapon as other minks, has the same affection quirk as other minks, and the same once a month moon powerup as other minks, has a quest tied to other minks, with literally nothing to set her apart except for being on camera. Her flashback was a two panel affair that came after the fact to try and add impact to a scene, rather than her having any actual onscreen relationship with Pedro prior to the moment.
Jinbe is the best at what he does, and has a shitload of notoriety.
And for the 100th time, Chopper is not a mink. Luffy can transform and so can Franky. None of them have a sulong form and none of them are minks.
And they can also do that at ANY TIME.
And there's a difference between
-inflated balloon
-gets into a giant robot
-animal turns into a stronger animalCarrot's power completely overlaps with Choppers, only much more limited AND less varied. Same way she doesn't have a strange nose, iconic hat, unique hand shape, unique eye style, a unique clothing sense, or a broken anything. She just does not have as much design effort put in as Chopper does.
Chopper covers every single thing she has to offer.
You can't just say "this thing is called a different thing so that makes it different even though the actual details are 98% the same." The only difference is Carrot's is limited to the full moon, and she has less forms. A lesser version of what's already there.
Curious how only SHs are shown in this same setting, though. Oh, and look. There's Carrot. Not Law or Bepo, or anyone else. Just SHs.
Because Law and crew have already been with Kinemon for days. They've already heard it and know the plan.
It's too bad Jinbe didn't stand out in that arc with all those other fishmen and mermaids. Oh wait. Oda did make him stand out.
Yes, that's exactly my point.
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Are we seriously going into "the strawhats have no character development" type of arguments to discredit carrot? Because Zoro, Nami, Usopp, Chopper, Robin and Franky all had their own developments either in the arc they officially joined or slowly throughout the story.
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Sanji too.
#16chars
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This thread is really popping.
I tend to agree with Jabra and Robby with their points on Carrot. All of their Strawhats had their shackles broke in their respective arcs and have continued to grow on the journey. Jimbe stands out in a lot of ways, but I like him for his depth which fits great with the Strawhats. Carrot doesn't have that depth at this point, looking at the overall story, it doesn't look or feel like it's heading there anytime soon.
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Carrot doesn't have that depth at this point, looking at the overall story, it doesn't look or feel like it's heading there anytime soon.
Even though she's been around since Zou, Carrot has only actually been a real candidate since chapter 877 (Pedro goes boom), and that was in the middle of a huge chase scene. Oda's whole approach for this character has been gradual integration into the story. At first she was just a bit more than a background character, then she was an arc tag-along, and then she suddenly started waving all these crewmate flags (dead mentor, fulfilling mentor's dream, clear crew position). And we know that she has at least one pretty important scene in her future where, as per Pedro's dying words, she learns about the dawn and why Luffy needs to be protected.
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Sure. The same place every other secondary character's plot threads go. Cover stories or side adventures that tie into the main story
I just realized you’re the guy who goes off about Earrings and Nose colors. Hehe, forgive me i didn’t know I was talking to an intellectual. Anyway, what’s stopping her dream from involving her joining the Strawhats. She isn’t Bartolommeo who was like a superfan who has to keep his distance not to get blinded or someshit.
Let’s try and analyze this; Pedro’s words were that the Strawhats are awesome people essentially. Pedro’s failed mission was to obtain a road poneglyph at WCI. Carrot’s own dream is to sail the ocean.
If Carrot fullfills Pedro’s failed mission by I don’t know, obtaining Kaidou’s road poneglyph in the actual main story, then decides to follow her dream of sailing the sea thereby abandoning her duties in Zou(like she did at WCI) and once again from Pedro’s words, the Strawhats are awesome guys.Anha so tell me howbif all these things come together, give me the plausible reasoning for why it makes more sense for her to board some other person’s ship(since there’s no way she can be the captain) other than just joining these awesome people according to Pedro
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Because there's a whole island of minks also involved in that plotline, of whom she is not unique in any way except screentime.
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Pedro's death affected Brooke, Nami, and Chopper as well. And they're also bound to learn from that. Why does Carrot have to join the Strawhats when there's only bits and pieces of any real depth to her character? I understand the argument for her joining, but there's been very little added to her character.
Wano is such a big arc with a lot of characters involved. Is she really going to be focused on heavily like the Strawhats? Looking in at the present, I'd say no. -
Because there's a whole island of minks also involved in that plotline, of whom she is not unique in any way except screentime.
Are you responding to me? Hehe, I’m actually confused.
If you are responding to me then what are you saying? Were the other minks present for Pedro’s death? Were the other minks given a flashback with Pedro after his death? Were the other minks told Pedro’s last words? Do the other minks have a dream to sail the sea? The question was completely centered around Carrot and these plotlines that only involve her and asked why it’s better for her to not join the Strawhats when these plot lines exist and your answer is. There’s other minks so whatever?
I mean are you responding to me? It’s almost as if you just blocked out anything I said and just brought up something completely different.
Dude like I said before it’s fine to just not care about actual facts in the story or the argument. Just say you don’t care. Don’t respond to questions that haven’t been asked and pretend that it’s answer to the question that has actually been asked. You’re just confusing everyone.
Now I’ll just take it that you don’t care about anything I said before. So if you want to make some other point then make it. Don’t pretend to be answering a question by deflecting to something completely different
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I'm sorry, the fact I've been over this a hundred times is leading to me giving shorter and shorter replies.
Pedro's death is a lesson of "Emporers are scary, there can be costs if you mess with them." The strawhats got that as well. (And despite Oda selling it hard as an actual death, it might STILL be undone in the long run, cause Oda.)
You have the disbanded mink pirate crew, all the loose plot threads with Pekoms still, a whole mess of poneglyphs to find that the strawhats won't have time for on their own, an already established strawhat fleet that still needs to grow to reach 8000 before the end of the series, and the fact that their giant elephant is going to die soon and they'll need a new home.
There's plenty of broader Mink stuff to go around, and aside from screentime Carrot is no different than any other mink. She is not special in design or abilities, and has no deeper bond with Luffy than anyone else. Wanda could have come along instead and absolutely nothing would have changed except some interactions with Chopper, she maybe would have had them with Nami instead. Even for the much touted "lookout" role people have assigned Carrot, she didn't accomplish a single actual lookout feat in the course of a 30 chapter ship chase.
Add in that when she did her Sulong thing, it was immediately followed by "so can the island leaders do that too?" as a hype tool, and that at the end of Wano we're going to see quite a few minks do the same thing, that ability is going to become even less special than it already is.
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I'm sorry, the fact I've been over this a hundred times is leading to me giving shorter and shorter replies.
Pedro's death is a lesson of "Emporers are scary, there can be costs if you mess with them." The strawhats got that as well. (And despite Oda selling it hard as an actual death, it might STILL be undone in the long run, cause Oda.)
You have the disbanded mink pirate crew, all the loose plot threads with Pekoms still, a whole mess of poneglyphs to find that the strawhats won't have time for on their own, an already established strawhat fleet that still needs to grow to reach 8000 before the end of the series, and the fact that their giant elephant is going to die soon and they'll need a new home.
There's plenty of broader Mink stuff to go around, and aside from screentime Carrot is no different than any other mink. She is not special in design or abilities, and has no deeper bond with Luffy than anyone else. Wanda could have come along instead and absolutely nothing would have changed except some interactions with Chopper, she maybe would have had them with Nami instead. Even for the much touted "lookout" role people have assigned Carrot, she didn't accomplish a single actual lookout feat in the course of a 30 chapter ship chase.
Add in that when she did her Sulong thing, it was immediately followed by "so can the island leaders do that too?" as a hype tool, and that at the end of Wano we're going to see quite a few minks do the same thing, that ability is going to become even less special than it already is.
Alright alright I get it. I forgot you already said you don’t care about the biggest Character moment of the character we’re talking about. I already declared this an en passé. Yeah, there’s no need to argue when people ignore facts of the argument. And it gets even worse when people are actually making up their own “facts” like it’s “a FACT that the elephant will die”.
Here’s some last words of advice. When making speculations. It’s better to actually call them speculations other than, you know, FACTS… I even showed you how to do it in that message you ignored. You say stuff like “WHAT IF Carrot obtains the Road poneglyph?” and then follow the speculation up with some reasoning behind it if you have any like “Since Pedro failed to obtain one before and it would be Carrot honoring Pedro’s memory.” See speculations are allowed in arguments, they don’t make your point any less of one. This is how compromise is made and an argument ends. Not declaring a speculation as a “FACT” and then ignoring actual facts in the story. This just draws things on for no reason and the only salvation for that is to declare an En passé.
So, En passé. -
It really is astounding how backwards some people see this discussion, especially when saying things like "people who disagree with me ignore my arguments" while completely ignoring or discarding the other sides' arguments, or "anyone can join, really, if Oda wanted to" and simultaneously ignoring what proper story building means, or "people just don't want X to join" while they fit their arguments to their wish that X should join.
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It really is astounding how backwards some people see this discussion, especially when saying things like "people who disagree with me ignore my arguments" while completely ignoring or discarding the other sides' arguments, or "anyone can join, really, if Oda wanted to" and simultaneously ignoring what proper story building means, or "people just don't want X to join" while they fit their arguments to their wish that X should join.
It's been like that for as long as I can remember since I've joined this forum. I definitely remember the Monet and Caesar clown arguments.
I just realized you've been 5 years more than me, so I bet you've seen it all. Woops, my bad.
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It really is astounding how backwards some people see this discussion, especially when saying things like "people who disagree with me ignore my arguments" while completely ignoring or discarding the other sides' arguments, or "anyone can join, really, if Oda wanted to" and simultaneously ignoring what proper story building means, or "people just don't want X to join" while they fit their arguments to their wish that X should join.
Do you have a point to make? You can join the argument if you make an actual point. There are no points for commenting on the sidelines… unless you’re a moderator or something... but if you are then moderate not sneak in to try and look smart
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Having someone from Wano would impede on Zoro's skill set, so I don't expect any from Wano. Carrot will be the last crewmate
Not that I am disagreeing with this, but if the argument is about the samurai-style of fighting then Shutenmaru is still the only saving-grace here because they don't necessarily need to use a katana.
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Not that I am disagreeing with this, but if the argument is about the samurai-style of fighting then Shutenmaru is still the only saving-grace here because they don't necessarily need to use a katana.
Right? I'm mean we're still missing two sword style that doesn't have to be restricted to swords.
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It's been like that for as long as I can remember since I've joined this forum. I definitely remember the Monet and Caesar clown arguments.
I just realized you've been 5 years more than me, so I bet you've seen it all. Woops, my bad.
The first person I remember people were being really adamant about was Perona, there were even some that were rooting for Cindry to join.
Do you have a point to make? You can join the argument if you make an actual point. There are no points for commenting on the sidelines… unless you’re a moderator or something... but if you are then moderate not sneak in to try and look smart
I am not going to reiterate the same arguments people have repeatedly brought up for the last couple of years and this more elaborate and well-thought-out than I could ever hope to. I also don't want to get any "points" and I'm not trying to look smart. I just wanted to comment on this discussion.
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The first person I remember people were being really adamant about was Perona, there were even some that were rooting for Cindry to join.
I like Perona, but also understood where Oda intended her character to be. I think it's fine to enjoy certain characters that match your preferences, but boy did some arguments get out of hand.
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Monet made me miss Perona.
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Monet made me miss Perona.
I never understood the allure of Monet at all. I always found her character flat and boring.
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I like Perona, but also understood where Oda intended her character to be. I think it's fine to enjoy certain characters that match your preferences, but boy did some arguments get out of hand.
Yes and that's the difference: Some people enjoy certain characters so much that they're looking for the smallest indicators/supposed "confirmations" why said person would become a permanent part of the story. Other people are looking at the story itself and indicators for who will become a regular and then base their theories around that. I feel like support for any characters introduced within the last couple of years belongs to the first category.
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Yes and that's the difference: Some people enjoy certain characters so much that they're looking for the smallest indicators/supposed "confirmations" why said person would become a permanent part of the story. Other people are looking at the story itself and indicators for who will become a regular and then base their theories around that. I feel like support for any characters introduced within the last couple of years belongs to the first category.
I understand and agree with you. I just wish Oda would go ahead and introduce us the illustrious 11th, the final Strawhat. At least that way, discussions like these will dwindle and move on.
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Wano is such a big arc with a lot of characters involved. Is she really going to be focused on heavily like the Strawhats? Looking in at the present, I'd say no.
Unless you believe no one is joining by the end of Wano (Jinbe aside), I never understood why Wano is too packed to do anything noteworthy with Carrot, but apparently there's enough time to build up a completely new character to join. Whoever the last member is, if they're in Wano, they'll be just fine.
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Unless you believe no one is joining by the end of Wano (Jinbe aside), I never understood why Wano is too packed to do anything noteworthy with Carrot, but apparently there's enough time to build up a completely new character to join. Whoever the last member is, if they're in Wano, they'll be just fine.
Well to be fair, IF a Wano citizen is to become the next crewmate, his/her flashback probably overlaps a lot with the most recent history of Wano. We are still owed a proper flashback about Oden that was suspiciously left out when Kinemon explained everything to the Straw Hats. Carrot is currently only relevant to the plot because she just returned with the Straw Hats and the Minks are allied. She doesn't have any super personal business there.
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Carrot still is in line with the Minks when comes to a role to play in Wano. Unless, Oda changes it up and actually gives Carrot her own centralized story.
Otherwise, A new character directly connected with Orochi and Kaidou seems like a plausible choice. -
I never understood the allure of Monet at all. I always found her character flat and boring.
but having a logia in the crew would be super cool, like having a prince and an ex-shichibukai.
seriously tho, if last member isn't a logia user I hope Nami or Usopp get one asap. -
A Logia would a fine addition to the crew.
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That's why we're still on side character Carrot somehow.
That's even worse than arguing for O-Tama. :getlost: