The idea of zeus as nami's pet just reminds me of other terrible cute additions from western tv….
Next Strawhat Crewmate (Vol. 6)
-
-
@Count:
So it would be like how Stronger isn't an official Blackbeard Pirate, but only an accessory to Doc Q?
Cavendish and Farul.
Mr.4 and Lasso.
Spandam and Funkfred.
There are many examples.
-
You know, Robby, since this Pedro business has been a real point of contention between us, and is so vital to the Carrot discussion, I think a little friendly wager is in order. If Pedro leaves WCI on the Sunny and gets to Wano as either himself or a Homie, mind intact, or is otherwise shown to be okay by the start of Wano, not only will I personally congratulate everyone who agreed with you, but I will strike my current avatar with a big red X for no less than 3 months AND design for you a great Jolly Roger of the one you decide will join.
Care to call?
Carrot was thrown into the new color spread loaded with secondary characters.
When Oda did the post-Fishman Island spread, he left out Jimbei because he had a future role. When he did the most recent character popularity contest, he left out all the strawhats, including Jimbei. So he could focus on characters that never got to be in color or didn't appear much.
And now… Carrot gets included in a color spread of secondary characters, as if she's not really going to have more opportunities to appear in color. Oda could have tossed in the Lapahns or Ganbe to fill the rabbit role. or stretched in any way like he did for pig or rat. But instead he included her in a color spread loaded with not-Strawhats.
Ahem. Ch 724 post-FI colorspread, top right corner:
!
By the time of the 6th poll, Jinbe had already said he’s going with Luffy, so he was already a de facto SH. Carrot didn’t place in the top 20, so there’s no way to know what would have happened. As for the newest one, it’d raise a lot more controversy if the forefront rabbit of the story was not present; Luffy’s there just because “Monkey” is part of his name and is likewise the first character one would think of. None of the other SHs are there because no one else calls to mind a zodiac animal just by looking at them; at least Mansherry has those Mickey Mouse bobs on her head and BM eats like a pig.Kuzan isn't going to officially be the final BB pirate at the end. He's partnering with them for now for whatever reason (infiltration?) but he's not going to be one of the 10 final combatants for one of the weaker strawhats to take on. Like maybe if it was going to be Sanji or something I could see it, but not Robin. Her story ties to him already wrapped up in any event.
It would make more sense for him to be the mysterious 10th Titanic Captain than for someone to be ranked higher than him. So I guess Devon is the archeologist, then?
Oda isn't going to fake out one death and have that character live, and then leave the other dead. That spoils happy endings and that's just not how he works. The only one that might stay dead is the guy that was around for two panels that BM ate at the start of the arc.
Everything from Sabaody to Marineford was one sad ending after another. The key point is that that sadness begat rebirth and renewal in the purpose of Luffy and his crew.
There’s a line from the Ninjago movie (of all things), where Jackie Chan as the old master says, “I’m not going to die unless it’s to teach you something.” All the deaths in the flashbacks and in the war were meant to change the characters left behind in ways that would make them the people they are today. Pedro’s death would not be pointless because it would be meant to spur on Carrot into being the more reliable character she now proves herself to be. Pound’s death, meanwhile, would be pointless because no one knew who he was and no one can learn anything from him giving himself up.
There was zero concern about that until you started bringing Carrot up as unique. Once you start making that point, it needs to pointed out that Chopper can do rough equivilents of the same stuff and already has a monster form in his repertoire.
No one said upon getting to Zou "Man, I hope Chopper learns Mink moves!"
It only started coming up when the discussion became "this is the unique thing that Carrot brings and only she could ever bring"… except it isn't.
The point is, if someone else comes in with a very similar skillset to one of the leads, you don't immediately go "Hey, we need a second person to do the same thing!" It's major point against them.
Except it still is because Chopper has still not expressed any indication of doing the same things himself, so it remains unique to Carrot no matter how much people try to shoehorn the possibility in. Chopper couldn’t have jumped clear over to the other ships as Monster Point, they made it clear they would have had to get within firing range. He doesn’t have the raw speed and maneuverability she does, and he couldn’t have taken out as many ships in as short a time frame. Just because they both transform does not mean they are fundamentally the same: her skills as a whole give her a completely different style than Chopper as a whole. It’s like saying Franky and Usopp both construct stuff and shoot ammo and that overlap in their skills makes them the same or redundant.
Considering we already know that we're going to be reunited with other minks, and we're going to see at the very least, the two leaders, Wanda, and possibly Pekoms, all at length showing off their true power? And that is probably going to be a very lengthy arc? Where we're going to see a bunch of Minks doing the same things enmasse?
Even if it does happen exactly that way with another full moon and everything, Carrot will still stand out because we and the crew know her much more deeply through their shared ordeal here. Law, for example, didn’t stand out any more that Kid did in Sabaody, but we’re going to connect with him a lot more than Kid during Wano because of all they’ve been through together.
BattleFranky, I'm still working on replying to you, I'll have it later today.
-
It would make more sense for him to be the mysterious 10th Titanic Captain than for someone to be ranked higher than him. So I guess Devon is the archeologist, then?
That depends on the nature of their partnership, not solely power. The closest we've seen allies be counted as part of a Yonko crew is in Bege having a chess piece rank that we haven't gotten any elaboration about. Given Kuzan's established complex but ultimately altruistic morals and how he is ultimately a guy that fights for justice as the cooler (pun intended) alternative to ABSOLUTE JUSTICE Akainu, I very much doubt he's final enemy material for a crew filled with scumbags like the Blackbeard Pirates. He's totally going for an inside man anti-hero route.
I'm still doubting the Straw Hat and Blackbeard match ups are going to solely be "crew position vs crew position", but moreso "I parallel you in this one way position/design/personality/power-wise". Whatever Oda feels like, essentially. I'm not even sure there's a use for the Blackbeard Pirates to have standard crew positions anymore as captains, but who knows.
-
Keep fighting the good fight, Shift. I'm right there with you (right or wrong). I think it was the same with Jinbei way back when. I've fought these "Carrot is a really good potential SH"/"Carrot's not Chopper" battles myself and some people get really dug in. Personally, I'm staking Carrot joining on whether or not Pedro is actually dead. If he is, then I can't possibly see how she doesn't join. If he isn't, then it not only would undermine his own desire to die for the people he believed in (as well as his statements about this being is last voyage), but it would completely undermine his inspiration to Carrot as a character.
@Count:
I'm still doubting the Straw Hat and Blackbeard match ups are going to solely be "crew position vs crew position", but moreso "I parallel you in this one way position/design/personality/power-wise". Whatever Oda feels like, essentially. I'm not even sure there's a use for the Blackbeard Pirates to have standard crew positions anymore as captains, but who knows.
Completely agree.
-
It would make more sense for him to be the mysterious 10th Titanic Captain than for someone to be ranked higher than him.
In fact, that would make no sense. At the end of PH, Smoker is unaware of what exactly Kuzan's role in the underworld is, and the next day in DR Jesus and BB are still discussing their cooperation. Therefore it is relatively recent and unknown to public. Yet earlier that day Jesus is called one of the 10 captains by Guts, implying they're all known to the public.
-
Yeah, Kuzan is an ally to them, but not a part of the crew, and not one of the 10 Captains under ol' Admiral Teach.
He's like…Doma or McGuy, I would say.
-
The idea of Kuzan being a yonko crew member is beyond silly.
-
You know, Robby, since this Pedro business has been a real point of contention between us, and is so vital to the Carrot discussion, I think a little friendly wager is in order. If Pedro leaves WCI on the Sunny and gets to Wano as either himself or a Homie, mind intact, or is otherwise shown to be okay by the start of Wano, not only will I personally congratulate everyone who agreed with you, but I will strike my current avatar with a big red X for no less than 3 months AND design for you a great Jolly Roger of the one you decide will join.
Care to call?
Not after Oda took two years to officially reveal Bon Kurei was still alive and three to officially (non sake cup) show Sabo, and has delayed as long as he has on Monet. When all the arcs blend together he delays cover stories and final reveals by years longer than he used to when it used to be just weeks or months.
Pedro may not be revealed to be alive until the resolution of Wano like three years from now. Or until Cake Island gets a cover story, which based on the Dofla crew, could be a long time away.
I'm pretty sure he'll be fine by the end of the arc so everything can be happy for this arc and there can be a big party and there's no guilt tripping Sanji for indirectly getting a guy killed, but Oda has delayed those reveals longer and longer.
So I'm absolutely willing to bet real stakes on him still being alive, but there's just no fair cutoff point to call anymore for anyone.
Especially when we have no idea how the timeline is going to work with Reverie.
Ahem. Ch 724 post-FI colorspread, top right corner
Actually, I was referring to this one from 634.
From the end of the arc, (but before the blood transfusion) that featured all the major allies of the arc, which made his absence really conspicuous.
Around the same time he would have appeared in the volume cover as part of the group in 10 vs 10,000.Not the random callback piece from two years later in the middle of Dresserossa shortly before Jimbei's cover story started.
-
Yeah, some real stakes are perfectly adequate here in order to still my just awakened bloodlust.
-
Not after Oda took two years to officially reveal Bon Kurei was still alive and three to officially (non sake cup) show Sabo, and has delayed as long as he has on Monet. When all the arcs blend together he delays cover stories and final reveals by years longer than he used to when it used to be just weeks or months.
Pedro may not be revealed to be alive until the resolution of Wano like three years from now. Or until Cake Island gets a cover story, which based on the Dofla crew, could be a long time away.
I'm pretty sure he'll be fine by the end of the arc so everything can be happy for this arc and there can be a big party and there's no guilt tripping Sanji for indirectly getting a guy killed, but Oda has delayed those reveals longer and longer.
So I'm absolutely willing to bet real stakes on him still being alive, but there's just no fair cutoff point to call anymore for anyone.
Especially when we have no idea how the timeline is going to work with Reverie.
If Pedro comes back to life at the end of Wano or after, the point of his affecting Carrot’s chances will be moot; she’ll have either joined by then or not at all.
But fine, here’s my new wager: Carrot will be invited or ask to join by the end of this arc, before Wano. Should Pedro permanently come back before then, I’ll concede. Same terms. If you’re in, what do you pony up?
-
If Pedro comes back to life at the end of Wano or after, the point of his affecting Carrot’s chances will be moot; she’ll have either joined by then or not at all.
But fine, here’s my new wager: Carrot will be invited or ask to join by the end of this arc, before Wano. Should Pedro permanently come back before then, I’ll concede. Same terms. If you’re in, what do you pony up?
Woah woah woah. Aren't you getting ahead of yourself a little bit? Having two characters join at the end of the same arc would be a bit much, no? Jinbe is already a lock after this arc. Carrot has been an invaluable ally up to this point, but joining after Wano (where all of the SHs can see how useful she is) would make more sense. I doubt Oda's, "there will be new nakama, they will show up successively" quote meant in the same arc.
@ARTEMlS:Yeah, some real stakes are perfectly adequate here in order to still my just awakened bloodlust.
Edit: Agreed. Puts some stars on the line. Lol
-
Woah woah woah. Aren't you getting ahead of yourself a little bit? Having two characters join at the end of the same arc would be a bit much, no? Jinbe is already a lock after this arc. Carrot has been an invaluable ally up to this point, but joining after Wano (where all of the SHs can see how useful she is) would make more sense. I doubt Oda's, "there will be new nakama, they will show up successively" quote meant in the same arc.
It's what makes the most sense to me; if Sanji and Jinbe are rejoining and Carrot's the lone outsider the whole way to Wano, it wouldn't sit right with me. If they get another tagalong, it wouldn't help her chances. So this is how it has to be if we're going through with this deal.
-
It's what makes the most sense to me; if Sanji and Jinbe are rejoining and Carrot's the lone outsider the whole way to Wano, it wouldn't sit right with me. If they get another tagalong, it wouldn't help her chances. So this is how it has to be if we're going through with this deal.
I 98% agree that Carrot is joining the crew but on the subject of her joining at the end of this arc or by the end of Wano I think it could go either way. The Mink Tribe hasn't resolved their conflict with Kaido yet so maybe once that's done she'll join the Strawhats proper. On the other hand, I could see her joining at the end of this arc so that she's an official Strawhat when present for Kaido's big defeat.
I do think the core crew will be complete by the end of Wano, the only exception being for potential quasi- and non- members to join afterward.
-
BattleFranky, I'm still working on replying to you, I'll have it later today.
LMAO, I read that whole thing and I was like, hey, what gives, then I saw that at the end. Can I ask a favor? Please just address the paragraph where I ask what precisely Carrot brings that literally no one else possibly can. If I get an acceptable answer to that, I'll stop arguing. I sincerely doubt you'll be able to but I'm willing to hear you out. If not, I'll still stop arguing against her, but I'd ask that we just wait it out at this point and talk/argue about something else. It does feel like we're getting to the point where we're about to find out within the next handful of chapters and it doesn't look like any new developments are going to be happening that will add to our current data pool of relevance and I don't want to just argue the same points over and over now that we've gone over literally everything at this point.
-
LMAO, I read that whole thing and I was like, hey, what gives, then I saw that at the end. Can I ask a favor? Please just address the paragraph where I ask what precisely Carrot brings that literally no one else possibly can. If I get an acceptable answer to that, I'll stop arguing. I sincerely doubt you'll be able to but I'm willing to hear you out. If not, I'll still stop arguing against her, but I'd ask that we just wait it out at this point and talk/argue about something else. It does feel like we're getting to the point where we're about to find out within the next handful of chapters and it doesn't look like any new developments are going to be happening that will add to our current data pool of relevance and I don't want to just argue the same points over and over now that we've gone over literally everything at this point.
This is such an unfair question towards Carrot as it doesn't even hold water against current Strawhats. What does Zoro bring to the table that Brook doesn't? Just like Zoro and Sanji being able to fight underwater won't keep Jinbe from joining.
Personally, I wasn't initially fan of the "look-out" or scout role others were suggesting, especially when Viola would be the best look-out in terms of eye sight. However there are other factors to consider beyond that. As a ruler's bird, Carrot stays up 24 hours a day and is full of energy. She also appears to be an expert at aerial combat and acrobatics which certainly helped her out maneuver Daifuku. Without Carrot, Chopper would have made the Sunny get dangerously close to Daifuku's fleet in order to use Monster Point.
Kind of like how Jinbe specializes in underwater support which compliments his role as helmsman, Carrot seems to be specialized in aerial support which compliments her role as scout/look-out.
-
This is such an unfair question towards Carrot as it doesn't even hold water against current Strawhats.
It totally does.
What does Zoro bring to the table that Brook doesn't?
Being the first swordsman (meaning that Brook can't factor in as a competitor), being the strongest swordsman, having wind attacks, and will probably learn how to cut fire in Wano Country if his fascination with Kin'emon and Usopp's lie on Zou are foreshadowing. In contrast to Brook having super speed, soul traveling, hypnotism, and freezing abilities.
Just like Zoro and Sanji being able to fight underwater won't keep Jinbe from joining.
Except that Jinbe has other things that make him unique that other Straw Hats can't do. Like Fishman Karate, summoning sea creatures, and superior helmsmanship skills.
Personally, I wasn't initially fan of the "look-out" or scout role others were suggesting, especially when Viola would be the best look-out in terms of eye sight. However there are other factors to consider beyond that. As a ruler's bird, Carrot stays up 24 hours a day and is full of energy.
Do the Minks stay up twenty four hours a day? I remember the Mink leaders needing to take turns every twelve hours.
She also appears to be an expert at aerial combat and acrobatics which certainly helped her out maneuver Daifuku. Without Carrot, Chopper would have made the Sunny get dangerously close to Daifuku's fleet in order to use Monster Point.
But what if Sanji was there? The guy who can fly with his fiery kicks? The guy who fought Daifuku earlier in the arc and only got hit because he was distracted by Pudding? The guy who kicked Oven too fast for him to perceive who attacked him?
Kind of like how Jinbe specializes in underwater support which compliments his role as helmsman, Carrot seems to be specialized in aerial support which compliments her role as scout/look-out.
Except she brings nothing to the lookout role aerial or surveillance-wise that Usopp, Sanji, Luffy, Robin, and Viola can't already do better as good and even better.
-
@Count:
Do the Minks stay up twenty four hours a day? I remember the Mink leaders needing to take turns every twelve hours.
Yea, the Minks take turns sleeping every twelve hours due to the kings not wanting to encounter one another, but the Ruler's Aides get to always be up.
-
Yea the Minks take turns sleeping due to the kings not wanting to encounter one another, but the Ruler's Aides get to always be up.
I see. I thought that there were day and night warriors though. Guess they have to stay up for protection or something.
-
@Count:
I see. I thought that there were day and night warriors though. Guess they have to stay up for protection or something.
Yea there are, the Guardians (night) and the Musketeers (day). For everyone else, if you're from the town, you're active during the day. If you're from the forest, you're active during night.
Not that the whole "instant sleeping" thing seemingly matters anymore, since they made a truce recently.
-
Why does her tagging along spontaneously automatically mean she's going to join? Not every arc has to come with the expectation someone will join. Jimbei already did that here, feels like our quota's been filled for this arc's recruitment. I could mention Johnny and Yosaku going along with them to Arlong Park but those idiots were never going to be joining anyway. There's just no concrete precedent to back it up .
That doesn't make sense. When has that ever been a factor except at the actual moment when they officially joined?
It did not mean anything by itself except that she would be a notable part of the story. Everyone who has rode on the Sunny had an important role to fill: J&Y stopped the villagers from killing themselves fighting Arlong, and even Caesar, as awful as he is, has been shaking up the story in big ways. Carrot simply being there means that we’re supposed to pay attention to her, hence she “stands out” by default.
The reasons for her actually joining when no one did are built up from the seemingly small things she’s done under Pedro’s guidance. His death was the spark that illuminated everything she did and is doing now. She’s been forced out of the sidekick position to prove herself as a valued member of the team completely on her own, without being under his shadow or anyone else’s.
When you factor in that she wanted to come along in the first place, that she’s not carrying any burdens we know of, that she’s been acknowledged as strong by nearly everyone present, and they all jumped to protect her. There’s nothing actually stopping Luffy from asking her to join, and he would not feel obligated to ask Pedro to join as well.
Brook sings, hypnotizes, channels ice, can separate from his body in spirit form, has some kind of crazy soul power we haven't seen that enabled him to go toe-to-toe with a Yonkou and her soul projections for a time and injure one of them, is a skeleton so things like electricity can't harm him (how freaking awesome would that have been in Skypiea?) and can run on water because he moves unbelievably fast. Which of those can Zoro do, again?
All of that was shown off AFTER he joined. That’s the barometer we’re using, isn’t it? Because Carrot hasn’t yet joined and you’re saying she’ll never amount to more than Chopper’s copy.
Again, even among the Straw Hats, there's nothing unique about her. Let's see anyone other than Luffy stretch. Let's see anyone other than Zoro slice a ship in half. Let's see anyone other than Nami create a thundercloud after soaking someone with a rain shower so it'll hurt them more when they get struck by lightning. Let's see someone other than Usopp shoot something at the distances he does, or use Pop Greens. Let's see someone other than Chopper transform into more than half a dozen forms or practice medicine like he does. Let's see anyone other than Sanji fly unassisted or make a recipe that does something miraculous. Let's see anyone other than Robin read a Poneglyph and sprout body parts anywhere for combat or spying. Let's see anyone other than Franky build the weapons and vehicles they have or upgrade their body mechanically. Let's see anyone other than Brook come back to life and run across water despite being a DF user. Let's see anyone other than Jimbei manipulating water in the masterful, gorgeous way he just did against Big Mom (not to mention all the other unspeakable awesomeness he does). Carrot doesn't have one of those sentences apply to her. I'm sorry if that's not comforting but it's not objectively disputable.
Where to begin… First of all, once again, about half of those things were not actually things when the character joined; Zoro did not slice ships before Mihawk showed it off, Nami did not have weather control, so on. Is your point that Carrot will never do impressive things outside of Sulong? Because there’s no way to assume that.
Second, Carrot can leap at least half a mile into the air in a split second and create electricity with her skin. Sanji can jump into the sky, but it’s about the same as his swimming: impressive by human standards, but not comparable to a Mink for the former and a Fishman for the later. So, two things she can do that the others technically can’t match, since we’re apparently not talking about other people in the world like Mihawk who can cut ships or BM who can control the weather.
Finally, Franky can use strong Strong Right to stretch his arm. So, there’s that.
What I meant was, they actually helped him during the Black Cat Pirates fight. How could anyone forget the one kid who bashed Jango's balls with a club?
Doesn’t change the fact that Usopp had the most rapport with the crew. There’s no one for Carrot to compete for attention against.
None of them really seemed like they would have been a good fit for the crew irrespective of their symbiotic relationships holding them back. If there was a better example, maybe, but someone like Vivi was terribly inappropriate for joining long-term so her having Carue to tag along is the least of her problems with joining.
It’s still awkward to think Luffy would have to invite two best friends at the same time just because they’re best friends. He’d do it, but it’d be weird nonetheless. Again, Carrot doesn’t have Pedro who would need to be invited too.
A fishman of Shichibukai-level strength who had more of a sense of justice than the corrupt pricks we saw in Crocodile, Doflamingo and Moria? Literally the moment the word Helmsman was applied to him, I was certain. I already explained the thinking behind that but it just became more and more impossible to doubt as we saw more of him. I don't see that for Carrot, at all.
You’re preaching to the choir here. I’m saying it was not put in layman’s terms like Brook’s dream of seeing Laboon again or Sanji finding the All Blue.
Again, hyperbolic language I was using there. I just meant it's like saying she'll be there just to take up space which is almost self-defeating if used as a defense of her joining. Maybe I should have said a trained monkey could do it, since that's more human vernacular.
It was part of her job on Zou to jump up and look around to see what’s happening and where. That she could do the same thing on a ship is not a knock against her. If Jinbe was not on board, Franky would be steering the ship and have less time for maintenance, and someone would be assigned to fish out DF users who fall overboard. Without Sanji, Nami would be doing the cooking and charging everyone for it. Those things would still get done, but in a less efficient way.
A lookout’s job is to quickly tell people where to look and what they should be looking at. Carrot is good at getting where she needs to be quickly, saying clearly what’s happening, and letting the others get to their posts. Usopp has more time to aim the cannon if he’s not high on the mast and needs to climb down. I explained to Robby the faults the others have.
Sulong Carrot is the only one I could remotely be in favor of, and even then she'd have to show more to set her apart, otherwise it would just be a female Sanji doing the same things.
It’s possible that moon goddess Carrot was one of the erased crewmates from DB Green. If Nami was the normal looking girl, Carrot could have been the more mature woman on the crew that was eventually Robin. It makes sense that Oda would have designed two different female body types at that time, but since the second couldn’t pass off as Robin if it had Carrot's head, it had to be erased. Then he used the rabbit theme on a younger character but kept the older version for her ultimate form. It sounds crazy, but to me it makes more sense than thinking Nami was once the only girl.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
@Count:
Except she brings nothing to the lookout role aerial or surveillance-wise that Usopp, Sanji, Luffy, Robin, and Viola can't already do better as good and even better.
I'll point out what I said to Robby earlier:
We established that Chopper doesn't have Jump Point anymore, so are you sure that Kung Fu Point can get up that high just as fast? Sanji, aside from already having responsibilities in the kitchen to worry about, cannot be compared to a Mink in speed/height ratio when using his Sky Walk to jump one bit of sky at a time. Robin already proved that even if she can see what’s going on, she’s not that good at relaying it. And Luffy has his perch, he’s always been happy to delegate lookout duty and doesn’t seem about to stop. Usopp, meanwhile, has no upward mobility skills whatsoever.
He has never had the title of “lookout”, it’s always been “sharpshooter”. As in, aiming the guns to shoot accurately. He’s been doing the bulk of the looking out because he has been the most able, just like he did most of the ship repairs before Franky, or how Nami did the cooking and first aid before Sanji and Chopper came aboard. Or how Franky steered his own ship before they got a professional to handle it and will presumably let him focus on the maintenance and cola-related stuff.
I’m not saying any of this proves Carrot would be the best fit for lookout, but a dedicated reconnaissance role on the crew makes the most sense for someone with her particular set of skills, and we’ve actually seen her doing it more than once. It wasn’t Carrot calling up to Chopper a chapter ago, was it?
Viola’s fruit is just not necessary for the crew's lookout to do its job, just like Usopp didn’t need the Mark Mark Fruit. A lookout simply needs to be able to see in all directions at any given time and with a high view of the horizon. One easy jump from Carrot from the mast and she has as great a view of the horizon as possible.
-
Reminder that sanji will also get Prometheus, not just nami zeus. Either as gift from bm for his awesome cake, or he will steal it like nami. He eats fire and sanji makes fire. And op will have new merchandise, pokemo… homies.
Btw why does sanji still use lighter for his cigar if he can set himself on fire.
And zoro will get a talking sword from wano. If swords are cursed then it has evil spirit in them.
-
It did not mean anything by itself except that she would be a notable part of the story. Everyone who has rode on the Sunny had an important role to fill: J&Y stopped the villagers from killing themselves fighting Arlong, and even Caesar, as awful as he is, has been shaking up the story in big ways. Carrot simply being there means that we’re supposed to pay attention to her, hence she “stands out” by default.
It was a bad idea to use those guys as examples because they didn't end up joining so that doesn't exactly set precedent.
The reasons for her actually joining when no one did are built up from the seemingly small things she’s done under Pedro’s guidance. His death was the spark that illuminated everything she did and is doing now. She’s been forced out of the sidekick position to prove herself as a valued member of the team completely on her own, without being under his shadow or anyone else’s.
Without Sulong, that wouldn't be true regardless. She'd literally have just gotten in the way when Big Mom jumped onto the Sunny, her being tucked away is the most useful thing for her to do right now. Even if it's not all the time, in this case she's kind of dead weight at the moment.
When you factor in that she wanted to come along in the first place, that she’s not carrying any burdens we know of, that she’s been acknowledged as strong by nearly everyone present, and they all jumped to protect her. There’s nothing actually stopping Luffy from asking her to join, and he would not feel obligated to ask Pedro to join as well.
This all just smacks of Vivi's coming aboard and watching Igaram get 'blown up', motivating her to try harder, only to find out later he wasn't dead, and then…not join after all.
All of that was shown off AFTER he joined. That’s the barometer we’re using, isn’t it? Because Carrot hasn’t yet joined and you’re saying she’ll never amount to more than Chopper’s copy.
For the record, I was adamantly against Brook joining at first because he showed so little potential and was stepping on Zoro's toes so much. But post-TS, even just as of Fishman Island, I was like, okay, yeah, fine, kind of tardy to the party but you got the moves, bro. 'Bout damn time. It's those things he's showed off now that give me hope that his potential will just further increase (conjuring icy spirits as backup, for instance, or being able to possess things/persons other than his own skeletal body). Again, I don't have that kind of hope for Carrot. Sure, anything is possible, I've admitted she might go from being bland to having a Nami-level awesomeness upgrade but just at the moment we have no reason to assume.
Where to begin… First of all, once again, about half of those things were not actually things when the character joined; Zoro did not slice ships before Mihawk showed it off, Nami did not have weather control, so on. Is your point that Carrot will never do impressive things outside of Sulong? Because there’s no way to assume that.
Dude, One Piece was barely just beginning when Zoro joined so we didn't have a good sense of the full scope of the manga back then but he was just so out-there and everything he did was so awesome, people would have rioted if he hadn't joined. There was no competition and his utility was through the roof. We saw Mihawk's feats and assumed he'd get there some day not long after that, and lo and behold, he did. He tosses around whirlwinds even without the use of his swords as we saw in the Davy Back Fight, something Brook can't do and which Nami hasn't done more than once if I recall, and not even in the same way. I'm just saying the default position with Carrot is, show me a reason to think you've got more than we've seen. I'm still waiting on that, it's jumping the gun to just assume what you're saying we should assume.
Second, Carrot can leap at least half a mile into the air in a split second and create electricity with her skin. Sanji can jump into the sky, but it’s about the same as his swimming: impressive by human standards, but not comparable to a Mink for the former and a Fishman for the later. So, two things she can do that the others technically can’t match, since we’re apparently not talking about other people in the world like Mihawk who can cut ships or BM who can control the weather.
So Sanji is twice as useful because being underwater doesn't limit him. Might have wanted to omit that since it hurts your case. I'm not looking for technically, I'm looking for absolutely. I didn't think you could do it, so I'll settle for a simple 'yes' or 'no' to determine if we keep dancing around.
Finally, Franky can use strong Strong Right to stretch his arm. So, there’s that.
Gears, then. Who else does something akin to that?
Doesn’t change the fact that Usopp had the most rapport with the crew. There’s no one for Carrot to compete for attention against.
This defense is kind of weird. It did help some of the crew that you're trying to compare negatively, so it simultaneously helps and hurts Carrot's case.
It’s still awkward to think Luffy would have to invite two best friends at the same time just because they’re best friends. He’d do it, but it’d be weird nonetheless. Again, Carrot doesn’t have Pedro who would need to be invited too.
I'm not super wild about using the 'two people at a time would be weird' point, it's just we've not seen it happen before so unless Oda's stepping out of the norm in this one case, we don't have precedent to assume, but more than that, the celebration they usually have would be missing half the crew if they do it before they get to Wano. So a celebration that's supposed to be twice as raucous because twice as many new people officially came aboard, with half the people there should be to cheer? Doesn't make sense. But maybe that's just me.
You’re preaching to the choir here. I’m saying it was not put in layman’s terms like Brook’s dream of seeing Laboon again or Sanji finding the All Blue.
Because you're imagining things that aren't really there? LOL, sorry. But I just don't see the things you're seeing and connecting them the way you're connecting them.
It was part of her job on Zou to jump up and look around to see what’s happening and where. That she could do the same thing on a ship is not a knock against her. If Jinbe was not on board, Franky would be steering the ship and have less time for maintenance, and someone would be assigned to fish out DF users who fall overboard. Without Sanji, Nami would be doing the cooking and charging everyone for it. Those things would still get done, but in a less efficient way.
When has that been so vital that there has been that severe of a need for someone to be doing that at all times? Even at this point in the NW. We didn't even have to wait til the end of this arc for Jimbei to show off something freaking awesome as a helmsman that literally only he could do. We haven't even heard Carrot really say she enjoyed doing a particular type of job, did we? There's just no way to compare the two as of yet.
A lookout’s job is to quickly tell people where to look and what they should be looking at. Carrot is good at getting where she needs to be quickly, saying clearly what’s happening, and letting the others get to their posts. Usopp has more time to aim the cannon if he’s not high on the mast and needs to climb down. I explained to Robby the faults the others have.
Again, that's like saying a trained monkey could free up someone who actually has a job that requires training or innate skill to do important things. About all you could say in her defense here is that, well, she's a rabbit, and rabbits eat carrots (they don't, or at least not as much as Bugs Bunny would have you believe) which means her eyesight is super duper good which a lookout needs.
-
Sanji getting Prometheus makes less sense then Aokiji being the last of Blackbeard Titans.
-
Sanji getting Prometheus makes less sense then Aokiji being the last of Blackbeard Titans.
This. What're we doing here, people?
-
The SHs aren't getting any homies, specially if they are made straight from BM.
-
One Piece chapter colorspread Theory
The Zodiac Theory is more strengthened with Chapter 890 and we will get 13 Nakamas
Many know the Legend of the Zodiacs:
"The legend is an interesting one. Each Chinese zodiac sign and the order they rank in was decided by the mythical Jade Emperor and his favourite creature, the rat. When the task of choosing the zodiac animals fell to the Emperor, he asked the rat to help him. The resourceful rat decided that the best way would be to arrange a race across the river. The order in which the animals arrived would decide who would be second, third, fourth, and so on.
The rat put the word out across the kingdom, and the first creature to appear on the riverbank was the cat. The pair enlisted the help of the ox, who was resting nearby, and asked him to ferry them across the river. A kind old soul, the ox agreed, but just as they set off, the rat pushed the cat into the river. Hating water, the cat managed to get out and scurried away to dry off.
Thus, the ox was the second creature to reach the opposite shore. The strong tiger came next, followed by agile rabbit who hopped from stone to stone and floating log. The dragon was hot on the rabbits heels, and only came in fifth because he stopped to make rain and then help the rabbit with a gust of wind. The horse galloped effortlessly across the river, but was pipped to sixth place by the wily snake who was hiding on his hoof. The sheep, monkey, and Rooster arrived together on a raft, taking eighth, ninth, and 10th places respectively. The dog was late because he had stopped for a wash in the river, and the pig had been sleeping, so took 12th place. The poor cat finally dragged himself over to the other side, but it was too late. His anger at the rat has lasted through the ages, and they are still mortal enemies."With the Cat are 13 Zodiacs ( First the Rat and Last the Cat )
Chapter 651 The Race across the River in Colourpage
Luffy: Monkey
XXX: Rabbit
Chopper: Dog
Zoro: Tiger
Usopp: Snake
Sanji: Ram
XXX: Dragon
Brook: Horse
XXX: Rat
Robin: Rooster
Franky : Ox
XXX: Pig
Nami: CatChapter 890 The 12 Zodiacs in Colourpage
Luffy: Monkey
Carrot: Rabbit
Inuarashi: Dog
Fujitora: Tiger
Hancock: Snake
Kalifa: Ram
Momonosuke: Dragon
Cavendish and Farul: Horse
Mansherry: Rat
Marco: Rooster
Minotaurus: Ox
Big Mom: Pig
XXX: CatWho are the last 4 new members for the Strahat Pirates ?
We know Jimbe will be the Ninth Nakama after Brook and Carrot maybe the Tenth !
Luffy: Monkey
Carrot: Rabbit
Chopper: Dog
Zoro: Tiger
Usopp: Snake
Sanji: Ram
XXX: Dragon
Brook: Horse
XXX: Rat
Robin: Rooster
Franky : Ox
Jimbe: Pig
Nami: CatWho are the Last 2 Nakamas as Rat and Dragon ?
I'm looking forward to your answers
-
Why not, it only makes the treasure they get more valuable if it's their enemy soul made items.
Nami confirmed to get zeus as slave, that's is not even debatable.
The aokiji thing is not comparable, these are pets they can easily control and steal because they have their element.
-
If Pedro is dead forreal then Carrot will join 100% and that's basically the deciding factor.
-
The SHs aren't getting any homies, specially if they are made straight from BM.
See, but it happened for the second time now, so you definitely have to take it seriously as a possibility this time around imo
-
It cannot be senseless if the latest chapter gave us, again, the idea that Nami wants to take control over Zeus. It may not happen, but if even the story is alluding to it, it has some sense to it.
Although, Sanji getting Prometheus is much less likely, unless Oda wants to hammer in his passion for soccer by having Sanji kick flaming balls of fire.
-
@uniaka:
Why not, it only makes the treasure they get more valuable if it's their enemy soul made items.
Nami confirmed to get zeus as slave, that's is not even debatable. And wtf does aokiji have to do with anything.
You might be onto something here. Nami actually permanently keeping some of Big Mom's power will make the whole Lola storyline come full circle and will have a pay off. When Lola insisted her mom would help she was completely oblivious to how much BM hated her guts. But that promise of getting help from BM won't go unfulfilled if she keeps Zeus. Nami has been waving around BM's power all through this arc whether it be through her vivre card or just weather homies in general. Nami and BM are interlinked in many ways, if she keeps Zeus I won't be surprised at all.
-
One Piece chapter colorspread Theory
The Zodiac Theory is more strengthened with Chapter 890 and we will get 13 Nakamas
Many know the Legend of the Zodiacs:
"The legend is an interesting one. Each Chinese zodiac sign and the order they rank in was decided by the mythical Jade Emperor and his favourite creature, the rat. When the task of choosing the zodiac animals fell to the Emperor, he asked the rat to help him. The resourceful rat decided that the best way would be to arrange a race across the river. The order in which the animals arrived would decide who would be second, third, fourth, and so on.
The rat put the word out across the kingdom, and the first creature to appear on the riverbank was the cat. The pair enlisted the help of the ox, who was resting nearby, and asked him to ferry them across the river. A kind old soul, the ox agreed, but just as they set off, the rat pushed the cat into the river. Hating water, the cat managed to get out and scurried away to dry off.
Thus, the ox was the second creature to reach the opposite shore. The strong tiger came next, followed by agile rabbit who hopped from stone to stone and floating log. The dragon was hot on the rabbits heels, and only came in fifth because he stopped to make rain and then help the rabbit with a gust of wind. The horse galloped effortlessly across the river, but was pipped to sixth place by the wily snake who was hiding on his hoof. The sheep, monkey, and Rooster arrived together on a raft, taking eighth, ninth, and 10th places respectively. The dog was late because he had stopped for a wash in the river, and the pig had been sleeping, so took 12th place. The poor cat finally dragged himself over to the other side, but it was too late. His anger at the rat has lasted through the ages, and they are still mortal enemies."With the Cat are 13 Zodiacs ( First the Rat and Last the Cat )
Chapter 651 The Race across the River in Colourpage
[qimg]http://pm1.narvii.com/5973/b79f7d9ce11aa2171abe3c65240340eafa5f77e2_hq.jpg[/qimg]
Luffy: Monkey
XXX: Rabbit
Chopper: Dog
Zoro: Tiger
Usopp: Snake
Sanji: Ram
XXX: Dragon
Brook: Horse
XXX: Rat
Robin: Rooster
Franky : Ox
XXX: Pig
Nami: CatChapter 890 The 12 Zodiacs in Colourpage
[qimg]http://www.mangatail.com/sites/default/files/manga/4/198480//01-op890e (1).jpg[/qimg]
Luffy: Monkey
Carrot: Rabbit
Inuarashi: Dog
Fujitora: Tiger
Hancock: Snake
Kalifa: Ram
Momonosuke: Dragon
Cavendish and Farul: Horse
Mansherry: Rat
Marco: Rooster
Minotaurus: Ox
Big Mom: Pig
XXX: CatWho are the last 4 new members for the Strahat Pirates ?
We know Jimbe will be the Ninth Nakama after Brook and Carrot maybe the Tenth !
Luffy: Monkey
Carrot: Rabbit
Chopper: Dog
Zoro: Tiger
Usopp: Snake
Sanji: Ram
XXX: Dragon
Brook: Horse
XXX: Rat
Robin: Rooster
Franky : Ox
Jimbe: Pig
Nami: CatWho are the Last 2 Nakamas as Rat and Dragon ?
I'm looking forward to your answers
We're really at this point huh. People are actually making predictions based off this.
-
See, but it happened for the second time now, so you definitely have to take it seriously as a possibility this time around imo
How is Nami supossed to keep a Homie that Napoleon can pinpoint and call it back anytime BM wants it? It's the same principle as a Keyblade.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
One Piece chapter colorspread Theory
The Zodiac Theory is more strengthened with Chapter 890 and we will get 13 Nakamas
Many know the Legend of the Zodiacs:
"The legend is an interesting one. Each Chinese zodiac sign and the order they rank in was decided by the mythical Jade Emperor and his favourite creature, the rat. When the task of choosing the zodiac animals fell to the Emperor, he asked the rat to help him. The resourceful rat decided that the best way would be to arrange a race across the river. The order in which the animals arrived would decide who would be second, third, fourth, and so on.
The rat put the word out across the kingdom, and the first creature to appear on the riverbank was the cat. The pair enlisted the help of the ox, who was resting nearby, and asked him to ferry them across the river. A kind old soul, the ox agreed, but just as they set off, the rat pushed the cat into the river. Hating water, the cat managed to get out and scurried away to dry off.
Thus, the ox was the second creature to reach the opposite shore. The strong tiger came next, followed by agile rabbit who hopped from stone to stone and floating log. The dragon was hot on the rabbits heels, and only came in fifth because he stopped to make rain and then help the rabbit with a gust of wind. The horse galloped effortlessly across the river, but was pipped to sixth place by the wily snake who was hiding on his hoof. The sheep, monkey, and Rooster arrived together on a raft, taking eighth, ninth, and 10th places respectively. The dog was late because he had stopped for a wash in the river, and the pig had been sleeping, so took 12th place. The poor cat finally dragged himself over to the other side, but it was too late. His anger at the rat has lasted through the ages, and they are still mortal enemies."With the Cat are 13 Zodiacs ( First the Rat and Last the Cat )
Chapter 651 The Race across the River in Colourpage
http://pm1.narvii.com/5973/b79f7d9ce11aa2171abe3c65240340eafa5f77e2_hq.jpg
Luffy: Monkey
XXX: Rabbit
Chopper: Dog
Zoro: Tiger
Usopp: Snake
Sanji: Ram
XXX: Dragon
Brook: Horse
XXX: Rat
Robin: Rooster
Franky : Ox
XXX: Pig
Nami: CatChapter 890 The 12 Zodiacs in Colourpage
http://www.mangatail.com/sites/default/files/manga/4/198480//01-op890e%20%281%29.jpg
Luffy: Monkey
Carrot: Rabbit
Inuarashi: Dog
Fujitora: Tiger
Hancock: Snake
Kalifa: Ram
Momonosuke: Dragon
Cavendish and Farul: Horse
Mansherry: Rat
Marco: Rooster
Minotaurus: Ox
Big Mom: Pig
XXX: CatWho are the last 4 new members for the Strahat Pirates ?
We know Jimbe will be the Ninth Nakama after Brook and Carrot maybe the Tenth !
Luffy: Monkey
Carrot: Rabbit
Chopper: Dog
Zoro: Tiger
Usopp: Snake
Sanji: Ram
XXX: Dragon
Brook: Horse
XXX: Rat
Robin: Rooster
Franky : Ox
Jimbe: Pig
Nami: CatWho are the Last 2 Nakamas as Rat and Dragon ?
I'm looking forward to your answers
You know that Sanji is being portrayed as a Goat and not a Ram, right?
-
The will of orojackson… still lives!
-
Not to mention that Chopper is obviously a raccoon not a dog.
-
-
How is Nami supossed to keep a Homie that Napoleon can pinpoint and call it back anytime BM wants it? It's the same principle as a Keyblade.
The whole point of this was to show they are just like bm, they are glutton. Nami can control him because he creates what he eats. And bm can always make a new one if nami takes zeus.
-
@uniaka:
Reminder that sanji will also get Prometheus, not just nami zeus. Either as gift from bm for his awesome cake, or he will steal it like nami. He eats fire and sanji makes fire. And op will have new merchandise, pokemo… homies.
Btw why does sanji still use lighter for his cigar if he can set himself on fire.
And zoro will get a talking sword from wano. If swords are cursed then it has evil spirit in them.
You're gonna isolate napolean like that? Nah if they're both going then someone needs Napolean. Maybe chopper could have him and then he'd have a hat under a hat under a hat
-
[HIDE]One Piece chapter colorspread Theory
The Zodiac Theory is more strengthened with Chapter 890 and we will get 13 Nakamas
Many know the Legend of the Zodiacs:
"The legend is an interesting one. Each Chinese zodiac sign and the order they rank in was decided by the mythical Jade Emperor and his favourite creature, the rat. When the task of choosing the zodiac animals fell to the Emperor, he asked the rat to help him. The resourceful rat decided that the best way would be to arrange a race across the river. The order in which the animals arrived would decide who would be second, third, fourth, and so on.
The rat put the word out across the kingdom, and the first creature to appear on the riverbank was the cat. The pair enlisted the help of the ox, who was resting nearby, and asked him to ferry them across the river. A kind old soul, the ox agreed, but just as they set off, the rat pushed the cat into the river. Hating water, the cat managed to get out and scurried away to dry off.
Thus, the ox was the second creature to reach the opposite shore. The strong tiger came next, followed by agile rabbit who hopped from stone to stone and floating log. The dragon was hot on the rabbits heels, and only came in fifth because he stopped to make rain and then help the rabbit with a gust of wind. The horse galloped effortlessly across the river, but was pipped to sixth place by the wily snake who was hiding on his hoof. The sheep, monkey, and Rooster arrived together on a raft, taking eighth, ninth, and 10th places respectively. The dog was late because he had stopped for a wash in the river, and the pig had been sleeping, so took 12th place. The poor cat finally dragged himself over to the other side, but it was too late. His anger at the rat has lasted through the ages, and they are still mortal enemies."With the Cat are 13 Zodiacs ( First the Rat and Last the Cat )
Chapter 651 The Race across the River in Colourpage
http://pm1.narvii.com/5973/b79f7d9ce11aa2171abe3c65240340eafa5f77e2_hq.jpg
Luffy: Monkey
XXX: Rabbit
Chopper: Dog
Zoro: Tiger
Usopp: Snake
Sanji: Ram
XXX: Dragon
Brook: Horse
XXX: Rat
Robin: Rooster
Franky : Ox
XXX: Pig
Nami: CatChapter 890 The 12 Zodiacs in Colourpage
http://www.mangatail.com/sites/default/files/manga/4/198480//01-op890e%20%281%29.jpg
Luffy: Monkey
Carrot: Rabbit
Inuarashi: Dog
Fujitora: Tiger
Hancock: Snake
Kalifa: Ram
Momonosuke: Dragon
Cavendish and Farul: Horse
Mansherry: Rat
Marco: Rooster
Minotaurus: Ox
Big Mom: Pig
XXX: CatWho are the last 4 new members for the Strahat Pirates ?
We know Jimbe will be the Ninth Nakama after Brook and Carrot maybe the Tenth !
Luffy: Monkey
Carrot: Rabbit
Chopper: Dog
Zoro: Tiger
Usopp: Snake
Sanji: Ram
XXX: Dragon
Brook: Horse
XXX: Rat
Robin: Rooster
Franky : Ox
Jimbe: Pig
Nami: CatWho are the Last 2 Nakamas as Rat and Dragon ?
I'm looking forward to your answers[/HIDE]
There's 12 animals in the Chinese zodiac, not 13.
I do think the final core crew will be 12, not including semi- quasi- and non- members.
I find it strange that after 20 years, the question of the Strawhats Chinese/Japanese zodiac animal signs haven't come up in the SBS. As if Oda has intentionally been avoiding the question to prevent potential spoilers, especially when the SBS has responded to other horoscope-type questions like the blood type personalities.
Obviously with the recent colorspread he hasn't shied away from Chinese zodiac themes. Even with the admirals and vice-admirals, sure some of it is inspired by Momotaro, but it seems that's inspired by related astrology Onmyōdō which does incorporate the Chinese zodiacs. Red DOG, Blue Pheasant (ROOSTER), Yellow MONKEY, Green BULL, Wisteria TIGER, Pink RABBIT, Brown PIG, and maybe even Sengoku with his pet GOAT.
-
I don’t say it enough, but thanks to those who’ve been encouraging and open to this Carrot argument, including but not limited to LJSR, Triple F, Blissed, BobLoblaw and Blowfish. I’ll keep trying to add worthwhile ideas like all of you have.
BattleFranky, it's been fun coming up with rebuttals but I'm gonna have to take a break from longposts. I'll still keep an ear open and add a word here and there.
It was a bad idea to use those guys as examples because they didn't end up joining so that doesn't exactly set precedent.
What you originally said was, “If a Mink was to join, they would have to either stand out among the others in some way, or simply be the strongest.” I did not say she would join just because she was on the ship, I said she stands out because she was one of only 3 battle-capable Minks to get on the ship and go on this important mission. If any Mink is going to join, it would be one of those 3, not one of the “top Minks” you feel would be a better choice. And of those 3, Carrot is the only one left on the ship to actually be considered. There are reasons in addition to that, reasons that I’ve been explaining that add up to more than what the other prior passengers had.
Without Sulong, that wouldn't be true regardless. She'd literally have just gotten in the way when Big Mom jumped onto the Sunny, her being tucked away is the most useful thing for her to do right now. Even if it's not all the time, in this case she's kind of dead weight at the moment.
She could have pulled Nami out of the way as fast as Chopper used his Guard Point to protect her. As it is, Oda had her do a job and she did it brilliantly, as everyone on the ship was happy to point out even when she was back to her regular self. Now she’s letting others have their turn to make a difference.
This all just smacks of Vivi's coming aboard and watching Igaram get 'blown up', motivating her to try harder, only to find out later he wasn't dead, and then…not join after all.
Thankfully we most likely won’t have to wait until Wano to know for sure.
For the record, I was adamantly against Brook joining at first because he showed so little potential and was stepping on Zoro's toes so much. But post-TS, even just as of Fishman Island, I was like, okay, yeah, fine, kind of tardy to the party but you got the moves, bro. 'Bout damn time. It's those things he's showed off now that give me hope that his potential will just further increase (conjuring icy spirits as backup, for instance, or being able to possess things/persons other than his own skeletal body). Again, I don't have that kind of hope for Carrot. Sure, anything is possible, I've admitted she might go from being bland to having a Nami-level awesomeness upgrade but just at the moment we have no reason to assume.
The only thing I’m assuming is that Oda has not shown off all his cards for what a Mink can do. Wano is proof enough of that.
Dude, One Piece was barely just beginning when Zoro joined so we didn't have a good sense of the full scope of the manga back then but he was just so out-there and everything he did was so awesome, people would have rioted if he hadn't joined. There was no competition and his utility was through the roof. We saw Mihawk's feats and assumed he'd get there some day not long after that, and lo and behold, he did. He tosses around whirlwinds even without the use of his swords as we saw in the Davy Back Fight, something Brook can't do and which Nami hasn't done more than once if I recall, and not even in the same way. I'm just saying the default position with Carrot is, show me a reason to think you've got more than we've seen. I'm still waiting on that, it's jumping the gun to just assume what you're saying we should assume.
Hey, you’re the one who brought up that he had this awesome power as if it’s always been a part of him. Zoro has always been good with his swords, but he still had room to change and improve those skills, just like Chopper improved with his medicine and Franky bolstered his construction.
And “not even in the same way”, that’s just what Electro is compared to Thunder Tempo: close-quarter static electricity to take out enemies quickly vs. long-range lightning balls that need time to be set up but with a large payoff. That’s what Carrot’s jump is compared to Sanji’s Sky Walk: one fast, giant, vertical leap vs. multiple short leaps in various directions through the air. Monster Point and Sulong: large, strong 3-minute form vs. fast, agile, potentially 12-hour form used at best once an arc, which is about how much MP and Franky Shogun are used, anyway.
So Sanji is twice as useful because being underwater doesn't limit him. Might have wanted to omit that since it hurts your case. I'm not looking for technically, I'm looking for absolutely. I didn't think you could do it, so I'll settle for a simple 'yes' or 'no' to determine if we keep dancing around.
I don’t aim to exclude facts just because I worry they might not help my case. All information is impartial; it’s the way we look at it that can help or hinder our arguments. And you won’t get simple yeses and nos from me, either.
The argument I remember back then was, if Sanji’s so good at swimming and can fight a Fishman in the water, why does the crew even need a Fishman? Likewise, if Sanji can jump through the air, why need a Mink? Because in both cases, a human will always be a human; he will never be a Fishman nor a Mink, and when matched up side by side their skills will not be even.
Gears, then. Who else does something akin to that?
Changing his body structure to attain different levels of power and utility? Chopper.
There are no absolutes, even on the crew. There will always be some similarities if you look hard enough, and those similarities will likewise be proven to be different if you look hard enough.
This defense is kind of weird. It did help some of the crew that you're trying to compare negatively, so it simultaneously helps and hurts Carrot's case.
Then let me clarify: Usopp had the support of his crew. Sanji had the support of the Baratie chefs. Nami had the villagers, Franky had his gang and Jinbe had the Sun Pirates. None of them wanted to be real pirates, to leave their homes for adventures on the sea. Usopp’s kids were doing it for fun, but they had dreams to fulfill at home and Usopp knew it. The Baratie and Franky Family crews were taken in off the streets and given legitimate jobs. Jinbe’s group were pirates out of necessity, but now that they have the chance to go home, they’re taking it.
Carrot chose to go with Pedro onto the ocean. She did it because, cliché as it may be, she longed for adventure. Now that Pedro is gone, she’s left with the choice of continuing on the adventure without him, or going home. My feeling is that she would rather keep going, especially if she has a good group of friends to help her.
I'm not super wild about using the 'two people at a time would be weird' point, it's just we've not seen it happen before so unless Oda's stepping out of the norm in this one case, we don't have precedent to assume, but more than that, the celebration they usually have would be missing half the crew if they do it before they get to Wano. So a celebration that's supposed to be twice as raucous because twice as many new people officially came aboard, with half the people there should be to cheer? Doesn't make sense. But maybe that's just me.
Again, to put it another way: someone who comes from the same circumstances and yet could be seen as inferior to their partner does not a good Straw Hat make. Karue is funny and all, but do you think we connected to him exactly as much as we connected to Vivi? The crew used him as fish bait, they didn’t strictly see him as one of their own.
I did say Carrot would be an exception and join the same time Sanji and Jinbe rejoin, which I believe to be a different circumstance. Carrot had time to gel with the crew separately from Jinbe AND to make her mark on the crew after Jinbe came aboard. Any of the pairs we talked about, whether the girls and their pets, the pseudo father and son, the bounty hunter partners, they came aboard together and subconsciously demanded equal treatment; it was either both of them or neither of them. Jinbe and Carrot came aboard under completely separate circumstances, and it’s for that exact reason why I think they could circumvent the awkwardness and join together, because they'd be joining for different reasons and not just because they're besties.
There is going to be a joining celebration for Jinbe and possibly for Sanji coming back, and Carrot will be right there. What better way to include her than with an invitation? (Providing she's not still asleep, of course.)
Because you're imagining things that aren't really there? LOL, sorry. But I just don't see the things you're seeing and connecting them the way you're connecting them.
You hit the nail on the head with what all Jinbe doubters thought we were doing. Thinking that Jinbe’s goal might be an altruistic one to unite the Fishmen and humans in equality, a very broad goal not for himself but for everybody. His dream was not the typical, cut-and-dry, somewhat selfish dream the others had, which is why very few immediately changed their minds after the flashback. It’s not their fault that they didn’t read between the lines like we did, because they were used to the crew’s motivations being relatively simple.
When has that been so vital that there has been that severe of a need for someone to be doing that at all times? Even at this point in the NW.
When on the watch for BM’s fleet. Literally right now.
We didn't even have to wait til the end of this arc for Jimbei to show off something freaking awesome as a helmsman that literally only he could do. We haven't even heard Carrot really say she enjoyed doing a particular type of job, did we? There's just no way to compare the two as of yet.
Again, that's like saying a trained monkey could free up someone who actually has a job that requires training or innate skill to do important things. About all you could say in her defense here is that, well, she's a rabbit, and rabbits eat carrots (they don't, or at least not as much as Bugs Bunny would have you believe) which means her eyesight is super duper good which a lookout needs.
So you’re saying lookout is not a legitimate job title, is that it? Because the International Regulations for Preventing Collisions at Sea would disagree:
“Every vessel shall at all times maintain a proper look-out by sight and hearing as well as by all available means appropriate in the prevailing circumstances and conditions so as to make a full appraisal of the situation and of the risk of collision.”
You yourself said that when you heard the words “Jinbe” and “helmsman” together, it clicked. You only had to see him holding the wheel once at Impel Down to get it. So why is Carrot, who has been on the mast doing her job this whole time, different to you?
-
@uniaka:
The whole point of this was to show they are just like bm, they are glutton. Nami can control him because he creates what he eats. And bm can always make a new one if nami takes zeus.
If BM dies, Zeus is gone. That would mean losing it at some point in the series.
-
-
I don’t say it enough, but thanks to those who’ve been encouraging and open to this Carrot argument, including but not limited to LJSR, Triple F, Blissed, BobLoblaw and Blowfish. I’ll keep trying to add worthwhile ideas like all of you have.
BattleFranky, it's been fun coming up with rebuttals but I'm gonna have to take a break from longposts. I'll still keep an ear open and add a word here and there.
What you originally said was, “If a Mink was to join, they would have to either stand out among the others in some way, or simply be the strongest.” I did not say she would join just because she was on the ship, I said she stands out because she was one of only 3 battle-capable Minks to get on the ship and go on this important mission. If any Mink is going to join, it would be one of those 3, not one of the “top Minks” you feel would be a better choice. And of those 3, Carrot is the only one left on the ship to actually be considered. There are reasons in addition to that, reasons that I’ve been explaining that add up to more than what the other prior passengers had.
She could have pulled Nami out of the way as fast as Chopper used his Guard Point to protect her. As it is, Oda had her do a job and she did it brilliantly, as everyone on the ship was happy to point out even when she was back to her regular self. Now she’s letting others have their turn to make a difference.
Thankfully we most likely won’t have to wait until Wano to know for sure.
The only thing I’m assuming is that Oda has not shown off all his cards for what a Mink can do. Wano is proof enough of that.
Hey, you’re the one who brought up that he had this awesome power as if it’s always been a part of him. Zoro has always been good with his swords, but he still had room to change and improve those skills, just like Chopper improved with his medicine and Franky bolstered his construction.
And “not even in the same way”, that’s just what Electro is compared to Thunder Tempo: close-quarter static electricity to take out enemies quickly vs. long-range lightning balls that need time to be set up but with a large payoff. That’s what Carrot’s jump is compared to Sanji’s Sky Walk: one fast, giant, vertical leap vs. multiple short leaps in various directions through the air. Monster Point and Sulong: large, strong 3-minute form vs. fast, agile, potentially 12-hour form used at best once an arc, which is about how much MP and Franky Shogun are used, anyway.
I don’t aim to exclude facts just because I worry they might not help my case. All information is impartial; it’s the way we look at it that can help or hinder our arguments. And you won’t get simple yeses and nos from me, either.
The argument I remember back then was, if Sanji’s so good at swimming and can fight a Fishman in the water, why does the crew even need a Fishman? Likewise, if Sanji can jump through the air, why need a Mink? Because in both cases, a human will always be a human; he will never be a Fishman nor a Mink, and when matched up side by side their skills will not be even.
Changing his body structure to attain different levels of power and utility? Chopper.
There are no absolutes, even on the crew. There will always be some similarities if you look hard enough, and those similarities will likewise be proven to be different if you look hard enough.
Then let me clarify: Usopp had the support of his crew. Sanji had the support of the Baratie chefs. Nami had the villagers, Franky had his gang and Jinbe had the Sun Pirates. None of them wanted to be real pirates, to leave their homes for adventures on the sea. Usopp’s kids were doing it for fun, but they had dreams to fulfill at home and Usopp knew it. The Baratie and Franky Family crews were taken in off the streets and given legitimate jobs. Jinbe’s group were pirates out of necessity, but now that they have the chance to go home, they’re taking it.
Carrot chose to go with Pedro onto the ocean. She did it because, cliché as it may be, she longed for adventure. Now that Pedro is gone, she’s left with the choice of continuing on the adventure without him, or going home. My feeling is that she would rather keep going, especially if she has a good group of friends to help her.
Again, to put it another way: someone who comes from the same circumstances and yet could be seen as inferior to their partner does not a good Straw Hat make. Karue is funny and all, but do you think we connected to him exactly as much as we connected to Vivi? The crew used him as fish bait, they didn’t strictly see him as one of their own.
I did say Carrot would be an exception and join the same time Sanji and Jinbe rejoin, which I believe to be a different circumstance. Carrot had time to gel with the crew separately from Jinbe AND to make her mark on the crew after Jinbe came aboard. Any of the pairs we talked about, whether the girls and their pets, the pseudo father and son, the bounty hunter partners, they came aboard together and subconsciously demanded equal treatment; it was either both of them or neither of them. Jinbe and Carrot came aboard under completely separate circumstances, and it’s for that exact reason why I think they could circumvent the awkwardness and join together, because they'd be joining for different reasons and not just because they're besties.
There is going to be a joining celebration for Jinbe and possibly for Sanji coming back, and Carrot will be right there. What better way to include her than with an invitation? (Providing she's not still asleep, of course.)
You hit the nail on the head with what all Jinbe doubters thought we were doing. Thinking that Jinbe’s goal might be an altruistic one to unite the Fishmen and humans in equality, a very broad goal not for himself but for everybody. His dream was not the typical, cut-and-dry, somewhat selfish dream the others had, which is why very few immediately changed their minds after the flashback. It’s not their fault that they didn’t read between the lines like we did, because they were used to the crew’s motivations being relatively simple.
When on the watch for BM’s fleet. Literally right now.
So you’re saying lookout is not a legitimate job title, is that it? Because the International Regulations for Preventing Collisions at Sea would disagree:
“Every vessel shall at all times maintain a proper look-out by sight and hearing as well as by all available means appropriate in the prevailing circumstances and conditions so as to make a full appraisal of the situation and of the risk of collision.”
You yourself said that when you heard the words “Jinbe” and “helmsman” together, it clicked. You only had to see him holding the wheel once at Impel Down to get it. So why is Carrot, who has been on the mast doing her job this whole time, different to you?
Oda himself even mentioned something very similar in an SBS.
"And thus, even during instances where they have to navigate through the seas during nighttime, there will always need to be at least two people awake at all times in order to keep an eye out in both the front and back directions of the ship, hence every member alternates every 2 hours to stay on the lookout. It isn't too uncommon that these people don't get sufficient sleep."
-
We don't know that at all.
So we all cool in assuming BM is gonna be friendly with the SHs because of a tasty cake besides all the wreckage they done to her house and being a threat for the Pirate King Throne, but the fact that if she dies, her three Homies made straight out of her soul are still gonna linger around?
-
I don’t say it enough, but thanks to those who’ve been encouraging and open to this Carrot argument, including but not limited to LJSR, Triple F, Blissed, BobLoblaw and Blowfish. I’ll keep trying to add worthwhile ideas like all of you have.
BattleFranky, it's been fun coming up with rebuttals but I'm gonna have to take a break from longposts. I'll still keep an ear open and add a word here and there.
What you originally said was, “If a Mink was to join, they would have to either stand out among the others in some way, or simply be the strongest.” I did not say she would join just because she was on the ship, I said she stands out because she was one of only 3 battle-capable Minks to get on the ship and go on this important mission. If any Mink is going to join, it would be one of those 3, not one of the “top Minks” you feel would be a better choice. And of those 3, Carrot is the only one left on the ship to actually be considered. There are reasons in addition to that, reasons that I’ve been explaining that add up to more than what the other prior passengers had.
She could have pulled Nami out of the way as fast as Chopper used his Guard Point to protect her. As it is, Oda had her do a job and she did it brilliantly, as everyone on the ship was happy to point out even when she was back to her regular self. Now she’s letting others have their turn to make a difference.
Thankfully we most likely won’t have to wait until Wano to know for sure.
The only thing I’m assuming is that Oda has not shown off all his cards for what a Mink can do. Wano is proof enough of that.
Hey, you’re the one who brought up that he had this awesome power as if it’s always been a part of him. Zoro has always been good with his swords, but he still had room to change and improve those skills, just like Chopper improved with his medicine and Franky bolstered his construction.
And “not even in the same way”, that’s just what Electro is compared to Thunder Tempo: close-quarter static electricity to take out enemies quickly vs. long-range lightning balls that need time to be set up but with a large payoff. That’s what Carrot’s jump is compared to Sanji’s Sky Walk: one fast, giant, vertical leap vs. multiple short leaps in various directions through the air. Monster Point and Sulong: large, strong 3-minute form vs. fast, agile, potentially 12-hour form used at best once an arc, which is about how much MP and Franky Shogun are used, anyway.
I don’t aim to exclude facts just because I worry they might not help my case. All information is impartial; it’s the way we look at it that can help or hinder our arguments. And you won’t get simple yeses and nos from me, either.
The argument I remember back then was, if Sanji’s so good at swimming and can fight a Fishman in the water, why does the crew even need a Fishman? Likewise, if Sanji can jump through the air, why need a Mink? Because in both cases, a human will always be a human; he will never be a Fishman nor a Mink, and when matched up side by side their skills will not be even.
Changing his body structure to attain different levels of power and utility? Chopper.
There are no absolutes, even on the crew. There will always be some similarities if you look hard enough, and those similarities will likewise be proven to be different if you look hard enough.
Then let me clarify: Usopp had the support of his crew. Sanji had the support of the Baratie chefs. Nami had the villagers, Franky had his gang and Jinbe had the Sun Pirates. None of them wanted to be real pirates, to leave their homes for adventures on the sea. Usopp’s kids were doing it for fun, but they had dreams to fulfill at home and Usopp knew it. The Baratie and Franky Family crews were taken in off the streets and given legitimate jobs. Jinbe’s group were pirates out of necessity, but now that they have the chance to go home, they’re taking it.
Carrot chose to go with Pedro onto the ocean. She did it because, cliché as it may be, she longed for adventure. Now that Pedro is gone, she’s left with the choice of continuing on the adventure without him, or going home. My feeling is that she would rather keep going, especially if she has a good group of friends to help her.
Again, to put it another way: someone who comes from the same circumstances and yet could be seen as inferior to their partner does not a good Straw Hat make. Karue is funny and all, but do you think we connected to him exactly as much as we connected to Vivi? The crew used him as fish bait, they didn’t strictly see him as one of their own.
I did say Carrot would be an exception and join the same time Sanji and Jinbe rejoin, which I believe to be a different circumstance. Carrot had time to gel with the crew separately from Jinbe AND to make her mark on the crew after Jinbe came aboard. Any of the pairs we talked about, whether the girls and their pets, the pseudo father and son, the bounty hunter partners, they came aboard together and subconsciously demanded equal treatment; it was either both of them or neither of them. Jinbe and Carrot came aboard under completely separate circumstances, and it’s for that exact reason why I think they could circumvent the awkwardness and join together, because they'd be joining for different reasons and not just because they're besties.
There is going to be a joining celebration for Jinbe and possibly for Sanji coming back, and Carrot will be right there. What better way to include her than with an invitation? (Providing she's not still asleep, of course.)
You hit the nail on the head with what all Jinbe doubters thought we were doing. Thinking that Jinbe’s goal might be an altruistic one to unite the Fishmen and humans in equality, a very broad goal not for himself but for everybody. His dream was not the typical, cut-and-dry, somewhat selfish dream the others had, which is why very few immediately changed their minds after the flashback. It’s not their fault that they didn’t read between the lines like we did, because they were used to the crew’s motivations being relatively simple.
When on the watch for BM’s fleet. Literally right now.
So you’re saying lookout is not a legitimate job title, is that it? Because the International Regulations for Preventing Collisions at Sea would disagree:
“Every vessel shall at all times maintain a proper look-out by sight and hearing as well as by all available means appropriate in the prevailing circumstances and conditions so as to make a full appraisal of the situation and of the risk of collision.”
You yourself said that when you heard the words “Jinbe” and “helmsman” together, it clicked. You only had to see him holding the wheel once at Impel Down to get it. So why is Carrot, who has been on the mast doing her job this whole time, different to you?
I already said I'm getting tired of the getting-nowhere-over-the-same-arguments tapdance and you couldn't even humor me with the request I made.
You think what Carrot did, simply stepping onto the boat, makes her stand out, and I don't. You seem to have a motivation to want her to join, I don't. We're just not going to see eye-to-eye on that. I just feel it's a weak argument.
If there's no absolutes on the crew then Carrot's even less unique and we have even less reason to think she'll join. Way to make her look less qualified. That's as good as a 'no'. I'll take it, and this'll be my last post about it since that satisfies my request. Thanks.
She's not the only one who's ever perched up there without having joined the crew and I specifically asked, when did anyone officially say she was particularly talented at it, or considered it a special hobby or anything of the like? We usually see the specialty of someone's job right away, they don't just fall into it. This would be the weirdest, most out-of-left-field way of doing things ever. No one's even mentioned any other positions on the crew that need filling or are even just desired for kicks like Brook being a musician. It's bizarre to make a conclusion when she hasn't made a peep about anything of the sort and no one's looking for anyone to occupy X position. Until they say it out loud, I'm not convinced. Just like until the word 'nakama' gets said out loud.
I'm not getting this special connection with Pedro, either. Of all the Minks, are he and Carrot particularly close or linked? Does she not have as great a rapport with the rest of her tribe? It makes no sense to treat Pedro like a Carue or something where, as soon as the umbilical cord is cut to just one person, that removes any bar to joining the crew. Bizarre. Again, maybe if Pedro said something specific to her about this exact thing, we might, but it didn't seem to go that way. I didn't get a sense they were uniquely intimately connected nor shared a specific ambition.
-
So we all cool in assuming BM is gonna be friendly with the SHs because of a tasty cake besides all the wreckage they done to her house and being a threat for the Pirate King Throne, but the fact that if she dies, her three Homies made straight out of her soul are still gonna linger around?
BM dying is an assumption.
Zeus dying because of BM dying is an assumption.Moscato and Opera died after having their lifespan/soul removed from them but its not like their soul suddenly disappeared after death. Does taking 50 years of lifespan from a person give the corresponding homie 50 years of life?
-
BM dying is an assumption.
Zeus dying because of BM dying is an assumption.Moscato and Opera died after having their lifespan/soul removed from them but its not like their soul suddenly disappeared after death. Does taking 50 years of lifespan from a person give the corresponding homie 50 years of life?
Homies are made of souls of various peoples living in Totland that are taken a certain ammount of months each year. Why do you think that is the case?
-
So we all cool in assuming BM is gonna be friendly with the SHs because of a tasty cake besides all the wreckage they done to her house and being a threat for the Pirate King Throne, but the fact that if she dies, her three Homies made straight out of her soul are still gonna linger around?
Who said anything about big mom dying?
-
@Long:
Who said anything about big mom dying?
At some point in the history should happen even if it's like in the last 10 chapters of the series. If Oda gave Nami Zeus onlt for her to lose later it would be him pulling a Kakashi.