Whoa. That sounds like it jumped right out of Mega Man 8. Good stuff!
General Mario series thread [Odyssey Edition]
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! New Donk City is part Sonic Adventure and part third person shooter. I never thought I'd say that about a Mario game.
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Arlo's take for those interested:
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New Donk City might be the most surreal thing I've ever seen in a Mario game. I never thought they'd have a realistic city and people for a setting.
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Think I'm about 90% of the way through the first run of Mario Odyssey and enjoying it thus far. Does seem the closest to a direct successor to Mario 64 of the games I've played since (though I didn't finish Sunshine). Does share the Galaxy tendency towards lots and lots of bite-size missions/collectibles, but they're usually built around a longer kingdom-wide goal sequence. And the hat-powers mechanic works more often than it doesn't.
Feels like a lot of the moons are gated for something late-game (though I could be wrong), so I've pretty well powered through the main-run of the second half of the kingdoms. Get a strong sense there's at least one hidden kingdom, but I'm hoping there's more.
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I'm enjoying the game so far, but I can't get over how slow and clunky Mario feels. Pure platforming feels terrible a lot of the time. Long jump feels super nerfed (so does triple jump), it takes really long to build momentum, and the overall result just feels a little frustrating, like going from Melee to Brawl. Using Cappy for subtle manipulation (similar to using the kick in Mario 64) or simply for an extra jump is the one thing that works alright.
Also not a huge fan of having to re-explore everywhere in a world I already went after beating the "main" stage objective. I should start just making a beeline for those before trying to look around.
Feels like a lot of the moons are gated for something late-game (though I could be wrong), so I've pretty well powered through the main-run of the second half of the kingdoms. Get a strong sense there's at least one hidden kingdom, but I'm hoping there's more.
I think some are (in various ways) but for example I got 61 moons in Tostarena right off the bat, the first time I got there. So not that many probably.
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I'm enjoying the game so far, but I can't get over how slow and clunky Mario feels. Pure platforming feels terrible a lot of the time. Long jump feels super nerfed (so does triple jump), it takes really long to build momentum, and the overall result just feels a little frustrating, like going from Melee to Brawl. Using Cappy for subtle manipulation (similar to using the kick in Mario 64) or simply for an extra jump is the one thing that works alright.
Momentum does feel worse than usual in this one, so glad I wasn't the only one getting that sense.
As for the moons being gated, I noticed after a few worlds that the moons missing from my list were always the last five or six in the list, so either they're typically especially well-hidden or they require some extra work I haven't found or figured out yet. Haven't figured out what to do with those big stone blocks yet.
…don't tell me.
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@tatermroog:
Momentum _does feel worse than usual in this one, so glad I wasn't the only one getting that sense.
As for the moons being gated, I noticed after a few worlds that the moons missing from my list were always the last five or six in the list, so either they're typically especially well-hidden or they require some extra work I haven't found or figured out yet. Haven't figured out what to do with those big stone blocks yet.
…don't tell me._
I'm so hyped up for this game. Sadly, I won't have time to touch it for a couple of weeks. Going to play the heck out of it after that though.
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Finished the main story, so to speak, and am very happy with how it handles the post-game. Definitely my favorite Mario since 64.
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I beat the game. Loved the ending and the final level, but I feel really weird about never having used Cappy's floating platform ability.
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I beat the game. Loved the ending and the final level, but I feel really weird about never having used Cappy's floating platform ability.
In two days? Wow
re Mario's control - I think he controls good enough for me, and since 3D World is fresher on my mind than Galaxy, it feels great to have long jump, side jump, triple jump, and spin jump all in the same game again. That being said, I'm not the best at using Cappy to extend Mario's aerial path. From the looks of it, speedrunners will take advantage of that a lot.
In terms of moons, I have ~36 and just got to Wooded Kingdom I think? I'm not gonna say parked in one area until I find everything, but I don't mind going back and do a little more exploring (ex. Bonneton and Fossil Falls)
also got the Waluigi outfit, so i am a happy camper. -
Finished the main story and it's just a real mess.
! Therefore, I, Mario, hereby proclaim rulership of the whole Mushroom Kingdom and universe and take place on my new throne establishing my new order of subjugating even the mere thought of any opposition - with Toadette fiercely applauding to her new grand overlord. So this is how liberty dies…with thunderous applause.
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Quick question. Had a conversation with someone at work today which basically went like this:
Me: So Mario Odyssey is geting pretty good reviews.
Friend: Yeah, but we knew it was going to be solid at least, it's a Main series Mario game.This started me thinking: With Mario having an absolute megaton of games under his belt he appears in… what counts as the "Main" series of Mario games? Wonder what AP's opinion on this is too.
I'm thinking:
Super Mario Bros.
Super Mario Bros. 2 (Both)
Super Mario Bros. 3
Super Mario World
Super Mario 64
Super Mario Sunshine
Super Mario Galaxy
Super Mario Galaxy 2
Super Mario 3D Land
Super Mario 3D World
Super Mario OdysseyBut I do have some questions. Should the Land games count? what about Yoshi's Island? New Super Mario Bros? What about 3D Land and by extension, 3D World?
I'd certainly object to not counting Yoshi's island, I love that game. Hell, the original title was actually super mario world 2
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! Some of these postgame moons really should've been cut from the game. It's not fun at all to spend thousands of coins and just buy dozens of moons instead of hunting them down or earning them.
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The buyable moons don't count for completionism beyond the first one. Just like the triple moons, they show up on the list once and you can cheese them if you want to unlock things faster.
Already finished it, cleaned up two smallest kingdoms, and two small kingdoms (cascade and snow)
Trying to find the untraceable moons right now.
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I'd certainly object to not counting Yoshi's island, I love that game. Hell, the original title was actually super mario world 2
That's the title on the American release, not the original Japanese one.
Yes, it is one the finest sidescrollers ever made period, but it's not so much technically a Mario game in the sense that it relies on a different basic setup controls wise. -
@Monkey:
That's the title on the American release, not the original Japanese one..
well, you learn something new everyday.
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Also fun fact: Mario World's Japanese name is "Super Mario Bros. 4: Super Mario World".
Source: my copy is Japanese because Japanese copies are cheaper.
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well I'll be damned.
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Well, I learned something new today with some of the game titles! I wonder why they did not keep the original titles though o.o…. I doubt anyone would get confused by this.
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Reminds me of the Crash series - here we have the unique titles after 3 and Naughty Dog, but in Japan, they called Wrath of Cortex "4" and Twinsanity "5".
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Well, I learned something new today with some of the game titles! I wonder why they did not keep the original titles though o.o…. I doubt anyone would get confused by this.
Marketing I'd guess.
Definitely marketing for Yoshi's Island. Nintendo of America I'm guessing was looking for ways to excite people about the game, tying it to Super Mario World would do that. -
Yeah I just wanted an excuse to praise Yoshi's island. I don't think the distinction of being a true mario game or not matters that much tbh.
But the 3D games being separated into linear and open-ended is interesting to me, haven't seen that pic before. My favorite mario games ever were Galaxy 1 and 2 and I'm playing 3D Land for the first time soon and it's nice to know it has more in common with them than 64 and Sunshine apparently. I did love them as well and Odyssey seems to fix some of the gripes I had with them so I'm excited for when I get to play it.
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! Some of these postgame moons really should've been cut from the game. It's not fun at all to spend thousands of coins and just buy dozens of moons instead of hunting them down or earning them.
! Right. I know they're not on the list, but I don't see the point.
! Also, it does add a ton of random-ass "wander over here and ground stomp" moons. There's not a good reason to put it all for post-game except, I suppose, to get people powering on to the end. I'm already getting a little fatigued in the post-game. Then again, I've played it a ton this weekend. -
The buyable moons don't count for completionism beyond the first one. Just like the triple moons, they show up on the list once and you can cheese them if you want to unlock things faster.
Already finished it, cleaned up two smallest kingdoms, and two small kingdoms (cascade and snow)
Trying to find the untraceable moons right now.
I really wish they'd told you that ingame. The game starts limiting how many moons you can buy at once eventually, so I assumed there was a set amount.
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Well, I learned something new today with some of the game titles! I wonder why they did not keep the original titles though o.o…. I doubt anyone would get confused by this.
Numbers eventually get dropped at some point in order to avoid making people think they have to play all previous games before a certain installment, or when there are too many spin-offs that make the numbers obsolete.
Some franchises don't do this (Kingdom Hearts, for example), which is why they have a high chance of becoming a mess.
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I really wish they'd told you that ingame. The game starts limiting how many moons you can buy at once eventually, so I assumed there was a set amount.
On the left you have the infinity moons, on the right the post game costumes. I was told clearly to save my money.
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For those who are fans of Sunshine, how do you think this game compares? Better? Worse? Equally good?
Going to be playing Sunshine side by side with Odyssey for research purposes and figured it could be productive to hear what other people think.
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Wouldn't call myself a sunshine fan, I recently replayed it and wasn't as bad as advertised, but once you go to the "clean levels" as in there is no more ink, and just do the delfinian test instead of fxin up the island, I felt it flat.
And blue coins. Yah, they are only 30, but you have 8 versions of the stages and no way to know if you cleaned up that version or you have to look others..
And there was something noticeable on the fludless areas, as you kind of become dependent on it, I was being more slopy or imprecise with jumping because I could correct with the fludd (that placing the blame on me, the game might be more slidish or my control/emulator configurations might be lacking), so I only noticed how badly I started to jump when it was taken away.
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On the left you have the infinity moons, on the right the post game costumes. I was told clearly to save my money.
In previous Mario games there's always been a single, clear-cut path to completion: you gotta catch em all. I don't think this game ever indicated that had changed, and it was reasonable to assume all of the buyable moons were all a natural part of completing the game because the first ten or so definitely were.
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Wait, so you can buy an infinite amount of moons but they don't count towards the completion of the levels… Does that mean that whenever I reach the cap for how many moons I can have (I'm guessing there is one?), I'll still have several stages at less than 100% completion because I unknowingly kinda-sorta cheated to get some?
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Wait, so you can buy an infinite amount of moons but they don't count towards the completion of the levels… Does that mean that whenever I reach the cap for how many moons I can have (I'm guessing there is one?), I'll still have several stages at less than 100% completion because I unknowingly kinda-sorta cheated to get some?
I haven't seen the cap myself yet, but I think the counter goes up to 999 and the only way to reach that would be to buy a bunch of the extra moons. As long as you haven't bought more than 100 you won't hit that cap.
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For those who are fans of Sunshine, how do you think this game compares? Better? Worse? Equally good?
Going to be playing Sunshine side by side with Odyssey for research purposes and figured it could be productive to hear what other people think.
Why Sunshine, specifically? Is it fresher on your mind, closer to Odyssey's feel, some combination of the two, something else, etc.
I can't give a full break-down but now that you've got me thinking, I can provide something.
[hide]
World Progression
So I suppose if we're going to break hairs, and off of Nintendo's marketing than yeah, Odyssey is more "open world" than Galaxy or 3D World, and thus would be a little closer to Sunshine, but technically, the game isn't as open-world as one might think.
Sunshine allows you to run around Isle Delfino and screw around, but the missions have to be played in order, and you always have to get as far as the seventh shrine in each world in order to unlock the final boss battle. Meaning, you can't do Y in mission X and get the shrine indirectly.You had some degree of freedom in 64, mainly in just getting some action-y star or the red coins before the target one, but even then, you cannot just get ALL of them out of order.
Collectibles
Odyssey has linearity too, mainly the world path and the story-based moons. But to get to the next world, the moons you collect is up to you, which is more than can be said for the shrines. I must point out that linearity in a video game is not inherently a bad thing. Now as for the moons themselves, the shrines do feel more weighty to them because they're at the end of a focused mission, whereas you can find a moon by doing whatever task on your way to the moons with weight. I suppose this diminishes the intrinsic value of a moon, so perhaps it's a little more accurate to compare them to Sunshine blue coins. But even then it isn't fair, since some moons DO feel more important than others.To sum up, they feel like a middleman between blue coins and shines. Unlike blue coins, however, the player is not tortured by the game failing to keep tabs on which ones you've gotten. As a kid i had to cross out ones in my Sunshine game guide as I played them. Odyssey is much much better not only keeping a list of moons, but showing each ones on the map itself. And both games allow you to save after finding each.
Then you have the lives system. Odyssey has none, and to be fair, lives have become an outdated mechanic in 3D (Mario) games, serving only as a arbitrary way for you to have reset your progress. This gives Odyssey more momentum (use coins to keep going, game keeps going after you find a moon), but I would argue at the cost of less risk? I mean, you can find HUNDREDS of coins easy. Then again, if you're really good at playing, death is a non-issue, same for skilled players that won't lose any lives anyways.
Mario's Controls
I said Mario played fine, but I do agree that he's not as fast in his movements compared to Sunshine. Sunshine Mario can turn on a dime and has a brisk running speed, Odyssey Mario is a tad slower. However, it's somewhat balanced by the fact that Odyssey Mario regains some actions that Sunshine lost after 64. But playing faster feels better than playing more elaborately in a lot of cases.
I want to give the slight edge to Sunshine on this one. In terms of feel, I'd rate it
Sunshine>64?=?Odyssey>Galaxy>3D WorldMario's Companion
This could be another reason why you wanted to compare them? Both games employ a companion that drastically changes the tried and true Mario conventions with some kind of gimmick (also a word that is not automatically bad). Fludd gives Mario water spray, Cappy gives Mario possession.As characters I think they're both good, Cappy is very fluid in his movements and is a fun little guy, while Fludd is this robotic guide that serves as Mario's hope in carrying out his sentence. Being a machine of many words, Fludd is stuck to Mario's back but is contrasted perfectly with the dynamic, man-of-few-words Mario.
Now? Which is the better mechanic, water spray or possession?
On one hand Fludd's water allows Mario to manipulate both his travel speed and vertical/horizontal movement outside of mere sprays. It gives Mario a LOAD of movement options, depending on how good you're with it. It's very focused gameplay, it all centers on water control. You can't long jump, but Hover huzzle is a good replacement. The only downside is that you're only as mobile as the water you have, and while the game gives you water at every turn, you do have to refill periodically.Cappy allows Mario to "capture" enemies, which means he gains the brief power of whatever thing he captures. So perhaps it's less expanding Mario's moveset and more substituting it, usually not as mobile. At the same time, possession never feels like a chore since Mario can jump out instantly, controls are never lost on you, and sometimes, in moons where it nudges you to possess, you don't have to if you can work it.
Also worth noting is that throwing the hat allows you to expand your distance too! It's not as easy to pull off as the Hover huzzle, but if you can get the chain going, you can really get some places.Overall
I really liked Sunshine and I really like this game. Both have some quirks, both have some draws.[/hide] -
Why Sunshine, specifically? Is it fresher on your mind, closer to Odyssey's feel, some combination of the two, something else, etc.
I can't give a full break-down but now that you've got me thinking, I can provide something.
[hide]
World Progression
So I suppose if we're going to break hairs, and off of Nintendo's marketing than yeah, Odyssey is more "open world" than Galaxy or 3D World, and thus would be a little closer to Sunshine, but technically, the game isn't as open-world as one might think.
Sunshine allows you to run around Isle Delfino and screw around, but the missions have to be played in order, and you always have to get as far as the seventh shrine in each world in order to unlock the final boss battle. Meaning, you can't do Y in mission X and get the shrine indirectly.You had some degree of freedom in 64, mainly in just getting some action-y star or the red coins before the target one, but even then, you cannot just get ALL of them out of order.
Collectibles
Odyssey has linearity too, mainly the world path and the story-based moons. But to get to the next world, the moons you collect is up to you, which is more than can be said for the shrines. I must point out that linearity in a video game is not inherently a bad thing. Now as for the moons themselves, the shrines do feel more weighty to them because they're at the end of a focused mission, whereas you can find a moon by doing whatever task on your way to the moons with weight. I suppose this diminishes the intrinsic value of a moon, so perhaps it's a little more accurate to compare them to Sunshine blue coins. But even then it isn't fair, since some moons DO feel more important than others.To sum up, they feel like a middleman between blue coins and shines. Unlike blue coins, however, the player is not tortured by the game failing to keep tabs on which ones you've gotten. As a kid i had to cross out ones in my Sunshine game guide as I played them. Odyssey is much much better not only keeping a list of moons, but showing each ones on the map itself. And both games allow you to save after finding each.
Then you have the lives system. Odyssey has none, and to be fair, lives have become an outdated mechanic in 3D (Mario) games, serving only as a arbitrary way for you to have reset your progress. This gives Odyssey more momentum (use coins to keep going, game keeps going after you find a moon), but I would argue at the cost of less risk? I mean, you can find HUNDREDS of coins easy. Then again, if you're really good at playing, death is a non-issue, same for skilled players that won't lose any lives anyways.
Mario's Controls
I said Mario played fine, but I do agree that he's not as fast in his movements compared to Sunshine. Sunshine Mario can turn on a dime and has a brisk running speed, Odyssey Mario is a tad slower. However, it's somewhat balanced by the fact that Odyssey Mario regains some actions that Sunshine lost after 64. But playing faster feels better than playing more elaborately in a lot of cases.
I want to give the slight edge to Sunshine on this one. In terms of feel, I'd rate it
Sunshine>64?=?Odyssey>Galaxy>3D WorldMario's Companion
This could be another reason why you wanted to compare them? Both games employ a companion that drastically changes the tried and true Mario conventions with some kind of gimmick (also a word that is not automatically bad). Fludd gives Mario water spray, Cappy gives Mario possession.As characters I think they're both good, Cappy is very fluid in his movements and is a fun little guy, while Fludd is this robotic guide that serves as Mario's hope in carrying out his sentence. Being a machine of many words, Fludd is stuck to Mario's back but is contrasted perfectly with the dynamic, man-of-few-words Mario.
Now? Which is the better mechanic, water spray or possession?
On one hand Fludd's water allows Mario to manipulate both his travel speed and vertical/horizontal movement outside of mere sprays. It gives Mario a LOAD of movement options, depending on how good you're with it. It's very focused gameplay, it all centers on water control. You can't long jump, but Hover huzzle is a good replacement. The only downside is that you're only as mobile as the water you have, and while the game gives you water at every turn, you do have to refill periodically.Cappy allows Mario to "capture" enemies, which means he gains the brief power of whatever thing he captures. So perhaps it's less expanding Mario's moveset and more substituting it, usually not as mobile. At the same time, possession never feels like a chore since Mario can jump out instantly, controls are never lost on you, and sometimes, in moons where it nudges you to possess, you don't have to if you can work it.
Also worth noting is that throwing the hat allows you to expand your distance too! It's not as easy to pull off as the Hover huzzle, but if you can get the chain going, you can really get some places.Overall
I really liked Sunshine and I really like this game. Both have some quirks, both have some draws.[/hide]It's just the simple thing where Sunshine I can easily play due to having a copy at home and the console and controllers necessary, whereas with 64 I'd have to make compromises to the original experience, such as emulating, different controllers, re-make that's quite different, etc.
As for your stuff, appreciated, though I admittedly am less interested in the expositiony stuff and more interested in your opinion (like what you said about feel in particular) since that's stuff I won't be able to notice on my own. More than anything I'm trying to keep opinions outside of my own under consideration since it might be easy for me to prefer Sunshine over Odyssey given I played one as an excited kid and I'm playing the other one as a judgmental adult.
In any case, I'm sure it is still useful in the sense it got you to think about stuff, and that's always a nice thing to see people do when experiencing games over different times. -
! Everything from the Dragon fight to the end of the game.
! 10/10. -
In any case, I'm sure it is still useful in the sense it got you to think about stuff, and that's always a nice thing to see people do when experiencing games over different times.
Well all the same, thanks for posing the question. I might even replay the other 3D Marios (except Galaxy 2 which I don't own) to think more about them in relation to each other.
Now, if we want to geek out further, we can look at the newer faces for this title - Motokura is director (he was codirector for 3D World) whereas Koizumi (the director of both Sunshine and Galaxy 1; both games have an expanded story compared to 64) is only producer.
Similarly, you do have Koji Kondo for music support like usual but Naoto Kubo (composed for Captain Toad) is the main composer for Odyssey.
i like talking about key figures if you can't tell -
Some of the end-game moons/sidequest-y things really do a pretty unfortunate job of drawing out all the niggling issues with momentum and camera. I understand you're going for difficulty, but when the camera is rotating ever-so-slightly when I'm trying to do a row of straight-line long jumps, well…
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For those who are fans of Sunshine, how do you think this game compares? Better? Worse? Equally good?
Going to be playing Sunshine side by side with Odyssey for research purposes and figured it could be productive to hear what other people think.
I haven't beaten Odyssey yet, but so far I'm thinking I like Odyssey better but it's not clean cut IMO
First of all, I'm in the camp that thinks Sunshine is way underrated even if it is definitely flawed (The Blue coins aren't worth it at all, and the level variety leaves something to be desired)
About Odyssey vs. Sunshine, I honestly immediately noticed that Mario feels a tad slower and more sluggish compared to the other 3D Marios, and I'm not entirely sure why. It's not necessarily bad, but I noticed it and I had to adjust. Here's an area where Sunshine feels a tad better since Mario is faster and a bit more responsive in that one, but it also is missing a lot of the moves from 64 which are restored in Odyssey like the long jump. Because of this, I think I prefer how he controls in Odyssey, but I'm not 100%. Gonna have to play more of it before I can say with confidence.
However, one thing I do think Odyssey hands-down does better is level variety. While Sunshine is great, a lot of the levels feel samey. It's got an overall tropical theme that carries over into every level and while they try to change it up, their attempts are more like "This one is night time" or "This one there's a theme park" while everything is still "Tropical Island" and "Water" themed.
Right away Odyssey sets the stage that you are going to visit some vastly different types of places. The hat level thing you start in is dark and slightly monochrome and has the hat guys, Prehistoric, Desert, Forest. I haven't gotten to it yet, but I know what New Donk City looks like… it just feels more varied which I think I like better.
Last thing, and this might be a preference thing, but I've always preferred Banjo Kazooie over Mario 64, and one big reason is I like how BK throws you into a level for you to explore, and you grab a Jiggy and keep moving without losing your momentum. 64 did that thing where you would pick a mission that wants you to get a specific Star, sometimes changing the geometry of the level which effectively gates off certain stars, and then when you get one it kicks you out of the level so you have to restart and trek through the earlier parts of the level again. It's been a couple of years since I've sat down and beaten Sunshine, but IIRC it gates off the level more than 64 does. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but that's the impression it left on me.
Odyssey on the other hand, does not do that, it's more in line with the BK style I like where the level exists as one big sandbox and as you collect you can keep moving on. True, there is stuff you can do that opens more of the levels like thawing the ice in the Sand Kingdom, but I like it a lot better than the 64/Sunshine model. -
There are moons that would be placed where 1ups were in other Mario games.
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However, one thing I do think Odyssey hands-down does better is level variety. While Sunshine is great, a lot of the levels feel samey. It's got an overall tropical theme that carries over into every level and while they try to change it up, their attempts are more like "This one is night time" or "This one there's a theme park" while everything is still "Tropical Island" and "Water" themed.
Right away Odyssey sets the stage that you are going to visit some vastly different types of places. The hat level thing you start in is dark and slightly monochrome and has the hat guys, Prehistoric, Desert, Forest. I haven't gotten to it yet, but I know what New Donk City looks like… it just feels more varied which I think I like better.
Eh, I get what you're saying and don't mind the opinion that Odyssey has more preferable level variety, but I don't feel like you're giving Sunshine enough credit when it comes to the unique aesthetic of its level tropes. I can understand large bodies of water being recurrent in most of levels being something that some may dislike, but when it comes to the purely the lands themselves, they are some of the most unique looking levels in the series. Especially when Mario is so often used to just rehashing bare bones simple level tropes again and again throughout its games compared to other platformers that have a lot more quirky and distinct environments like, say, Sonic. I'm talking about all of the simple plains starter worlds, deserts, haunted houses, volcanoes, snowy areas, aquatic caves, etc., that we've already seen plenty of times with minimal changes aside from level layout and enemy variety.
You refer to Pinna Park like it's "just" a theme park level, but when have we ever seen another theme park level in any main series Mario platformer? I feel as if that's like looking at New Donk City and calling it "just" a city level parodying New York while ignoring how obviously unique and gorgeously expansive it is in the overall scope of the franchise.
And then you have other levels that look distinctly surreal like Noki Bay having a bunch of conch shell plateaus hovering above a huge poisonous lake, Ricco Harbor being an ocean harbor level, or Gelato Beach having giant mirrors change the direction of reflected light and giant sand castles you can ground pound into existence. Even though the game has a second beach level, Sirena Beach, it compensates for this by having a warm sunset background and a hotel full of rooms to explore as well as pink Boo platforms and a casino basement. Even with that level you refer to as simply being night time, it had elements as stand out and ridiculous as huge tall grass, that wooden maze under the mainland you hang from atop an abyss, and giant Chain Chomps on fire hopping throughout the place. Even Bianco Hills stands out as this cool plains/mountain fusion level that looks more distinct than the sum of its parts with windmill house roofs and a huge mountain to traverse on. This only speaking on a visual aesthetic level, not gameplay mechanics.
Maybe I'm letting the nostalgia get to me too much since Sunshine is one of the first Mario games I ever played, but I actually really appreciate how far they stretched out the simple theme of tropical resort island into so many distinct landmarks that not only stand out well in the game, but across the entire series to this day. For once Nintendo ditched the philosophy of making each level contained its own completely different world and had a universal yet distinct synergy for a game that really fit the narrative tone it was going for, that being Mario is on vacation. It's so rare and cool to see a game's level aesthetic like that, and I'd like to see that kind of formula more in platformers.
I think the only comparison I can make to another shared level theme list in a platformer is how Sonic Colors has all of its levels focus on differently themed amusement park attractions fused with surreal/alien settings. Which leads to ideas like the first level being a tropical resort tiki hotel area with ferris wheels, feudal Japan buildings quizzed into an aquarium, taking Disney's electrical light parade and expanding that theme into a fleet of spaceships, or a planet made of candy with fast food-themed towers and roller coasters. I could eat up stuff that works expansively in a limited set of thematic parameters all day when it comes to level themes. Which is why one of the many reasons why Sonic Forces is miserably incompetent in my eyes is because there is so much that could have been done with a universal level theme aesthetic of 99% of the world being an Eggman-ruled dystopia, yet they don't do anything remarkable with it aside from only one city level where giant robots are invading.
Of course, Odyssey has its own fair share of levels that are just as distinctively kooky like Cap Kingdom (what I find to be so cool about it is how it's technically the stand low grassy plains with slopes starter level like in other Mario games, but given a Tim Burton twist to look so awesomely vibrant), New Donk City, and Luncheon Kingdom. And maybe Wooded Kingdom too, although I feel as though we have seen forest and industrial levels before in the Galaxy games to a certain extent. Still love the nature/industry theme though. But the rest of the level tropes, while being fine and having cool gameplay features in them, are for the most part what I pretty much expect from a Mario game barring a few cool details or realistic vibrance. You've got your desert ruins level (the Mexican town is a great location but its hardly the main focus of where you explore), your beach level, your snow/ice level, etc. None of them are NSMB-level barren/bland, but you get my point. And I'm fine with all of that. I just like to give Sunshine credit where its due since I too think Sunshine is very underrated.
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Some of the end-game moons/sidequest-y things really do a pretty unfortunate job of drawing out all the niggling issues with momentum and camera. I understand you're going for difficulty, but when the camera is rotating ever-so-slightly when I'm trying to do a row of straight-line long jumps, well…
! There's also stuff like the first bird in New Donk City, where you have to jump on a taxi for however many minutes and patiently hope you either collide with it or time a shot with Cappy (dunno why the game never tells you that you can tag the animals with him).
It feels like they left these things in for "added value" without considering that they bring down the overall polish level of the game.
There are moons that would be placed where 1ups were in other Mario games.
At least a quarter of the moons are placed like that.
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Random consistent moons and musings on the game
! I'm stuck on the extreme versions of the minigames for some of the later moons. This is "dodge 200 lightings" levels of insane. At least it seemed to be in my few attempts, I left those behind to do the fun ones.
I managed to do the bouncy ice Goron dudes race and the "walk" "" fun"" ones, but the rc car, the 100 volleyball and the 100 rope jumps are just cruel.
! I started hating on the koopa troopa races, but once I sat down and stopped resenting them, I started to tackle them on a few tries, you usually need a clutch jump or an awesome shortcut, and if they beat you for too much, just stay a round observing the leader and it will show you a route. Not the best route, but one doable.
! The hat and seek ones are silly but OK, just get near to NPCs and press a.
! Oh birds, the ones that I dislike the most, not only is hard to catch them, but you might leave the moon in an unreachable place, and do it all over again.
! There is one in the forest kingdom that would drive me nuts, is in the underground area, so you can't get a precise location.
! The "look at the binoculars for random shit" needed more random shit. Just two or three random flying objects kind of negate the shock value.
! Always listen to Cappy when entering a sub area, he will always speak if its not the first time, and indicate if there are missing coins or moons inside. Most sub areas have 2 moons but I found one with three, so be mindful.
! And now I have a bunch of the pictures ones, there is one who I had for the longest time and not even the kingdom I have identified.
! If something is patched, I think it should be the way toadette awards the achievements moons. Is just slow.
! Loved the mushroom kingdom.
! I wish that the ruined kingdom was a full fledged one, or at least a small one, I'd trade the lake kingdom for it. The cloud kingdom seemed nice, but not so blown away by the concept.
! Just luncheon kingdom and the moon stages to clean up, the rest are down to single digits, and achievement hunting/claiming. -
I'm disappointed that you can't complete the game without detatching the joycons and using motion controls. There's no other way to use the frog's super jump.
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Robo,you go all the game throwing your hat at things to learn what happens, "the game doesn't tell you that you can use its core mechanic on something" is not a valid argument.
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Robo,you go all the game throwing your hat at things to learn what happens, "the game doesn't tell you that you can use its core mechanic on something" is not a valid argument.
He went right through most of the other animals.
Edit: I should clarify that I generally use the inferior docked portable controls out of necessity (spinal issues make it difficult for me to sit and play games for long periods, so I have to lie down while gaming).
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It feels like they left these things in for "added value" without considering that they bring down the overall polish level of the game
Yep, that's it exactly.
Kind of a Catch-22. I really appreciate having a lot of stuff to do in the game, but my frustration level is peaking way above where it was just going through the game and collecting moons as I went. Like, a little bit more isn't a problem, but some of this stuff is so much worse…
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@Monkey:
Marketing I'd guess.
Definitely marketing for Yoshi's Island. Nintendo of America I'm guessing was looking for ways to excite people about the game, tying it to Super Mario World would do that.Oh, I see. Yeah, that would make sense.
Numbers eventually get dropped at some point in order to avoid making people think they have to play all previous games before a certain installment, or when there are too many spin-offs that make the numbers obsolete.
Some franchises don't do this (Kingdom Hearts, for example), which is why they have a high chance of becoming a mess.
Oh, I did not think about that honestly. And yeah, for Kingdom Hearts… you got to look it up online basically if you want to play in the correct order. Though I believe the collections on PS3 and PS4 helped a bit with not making it confusing for new players.
Anyways, back to Super Mario games, it feels like each story for each game is separate. Though there was some YouTube video I watched that theorized about a timeline in the series (Game Theory).
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@Count:
For once Nintendo ditched the philosophy of making each level contained its own completely different world
This is speaking in comparison to 64 right? Because uh..
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@Monkey:
This is speaking in comparison to 64 right? Because uh..
Yes, it is in relation to the likes of 64. The levels are fun, but they're always in their own biomes with very little to actually do with each other. One painting takes you a haunted house, another takes you to an aquatic cavern, and another takes you to a volcanic region. They look like they could take place on completely different continents or even planets with how much they contrast with so little in common besides maybe enemies. With Sunshine's levels, you can sort of see how they fit consistently into a tropical island resort area you go to for vacation. They actually look like they could fit into one biome in Mario's world and not pure randomness for the sake of it.
Sunshine is similar to 64 in how you enter paintings to get the paintings to get to levels, I wasn't trying to say that is not true if that is what you are thinking. When I said "completely different world", I meant world in more of a literal hyperbolic sense of how different the levels in 64 or Galaxys 1 and 2 are from each other with little relation visually, aside from levels that reuse assets. For Sunshine, there's more thematic interconectivity going on between levels taking place on Isle Delfino. Whereas 64, as well as the other 3D games like the Galaxies, are a lot more whimsical and spontaneous with which level theme you go to next.
I hope that makes sense. I apologize if my comment could be misinterpreted to mean I'm claiming that Sunshine is some huge overworld where you can literally walk to and from areas for progression without menu/level selections like in Jak and Daxter lol. That's not what I mean at all, I only mean shared visual level trope themes and aesthetic.
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@Count:
Yes, it is in relation to the likes of 64. The levels are fun, but they're always in their own biomes with very little to actually do with each other. One painting takes you a haunted house, another takes you to an aquatic cavern, and another takes you to a volcanic region. They look like they could take place on completely different continents or even planets with how much they contrast with so little in common besides maybe enemies. With Sunshine's levels, you can sort of see how they fit consistently into a tropical island resort area you go to for vacation.
Sunshine is similar to 64 in how you enter paintings to get the paintings to get to levels. When I said "completely different world", I meant world in more of a literal hyperbolic sense of how different the levels in 64 or Galaxys 1 and 2 are from each other with little relation, aside from levels that reuse assets in the latter. For Sunshine, there's more thematic interconectivity going on between levels taking place on Isle Delfino. Whereas 64, as well as the other 3D games like the Galaxies, are a lot more whimsical and spontaneous with which level theme you go to next.
I hope that makes sense. I apologize if my comment could be misinterpreted to mean I'm claiming that Sunshine is some huge overworld where you can literally walk to and from areas for progression without menu/level selections like in Jak and Daxter lol. That's not what I mean at all, I only mean visual level trope themes and aesthetic.
I was more skeptical if you were including the side-scrollers in that. Since especially Mario Bros 3 would have a bone to pick.